(http://i16.tinypic.com/2nr3c76.jpg)
is this a component of the generic map-in-progress here?
can we agree on the manner in which we disagree?
Instead of "resources", perhaps "sensory input".
Each red square is a prison cell.
deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep
need to go thru the cell to get your input
fuck
thats what it comes down to huh?
wow you're getting better at this tool!
are you saving these images under a personal account, or did you use the bugmenot logins?
also, it might be worth it to save them in pure black/white versions for possible printing as well.
to get back to the content, i'm not really sure what to make of the dillemma/state of affairs.
yes i think it's an accurate description/model/map
and it certainly can be a dilemma at times,
but it's hard to imagine any other possibility as well.
..
and what LMNO just posted.
resources are indeed sort-of like another form of sensory input
Quote from: LHX on February 14, 2007, 04:16:37 PMdeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep
need to go thru the cell to get your input
fuck
thats what it comes down to huh?
shit yeah..
what we need is a live chatbox next to a multiplayer sketchpad/flowchart designer and we'd get to transcendental enlightenment in no time.
version 2.0?
(http://i15.tinypic.com/4ic5yko.jpg)
we should set up a shared account or something where we can refine images
there was some mention that there might be some wiki compatibility on this joint - i will look into it
i created a account that i am saving these to
I think a lot of these concepts are really translatable through images.
There may be as many ways to see it as there are ways of talking about it.
Good work, LHX.
Quote from: LHX on February 14, 2007, 04:24:23 PM
version 2.0?
(http://i15.tinypic.com/4ic5yko.jpg)
Suggestion:  Each green triangle should be a different color/pattern.
So
Same input source > flitered through indivisual prison > has a different efffect on the observer.
Also, I'm not too into the "punishmemt" thing, unless you can descrobe it better.
Version 2.1
(http://i16.tinypic.com/312tlqs.jpg)
Quote from: LMNO on February 14, 2007, 04:25:48 PM
I think a lot of these concepts are really translatable through images.
There may be as many ways to see it as there are ways of talking about it.
Good work, LHX.
when chaos is related to a generic shape, it might not carry all its negative connotations
ok and then comes the question,
we cannot even be sure that we're receiving from the same input source!
because we can only view through the cells.
fortunately we got a lot of circumstantial evidence that makes it highly probably we're all looking at the same thing, but we cannot be sure.
maybe you should have the triangles hitting eachother with barstools as if they're poking eachother in the dark to let the others know they actually exist  :p
(i don't understand the punishment bit either)
Quote from: LMNO on February 14, 2007, 04:27:15 PM
So
Same input source > flitered through indivisual prison > has a different efffect on the observer.
Also, I'm not too into the "punishmemt" thing, unless you can descrobe it better.
yeah thats why i threw a question mark beside it
there is a fine line between the 'prison' and the 'map'
the prison suggests having been put somewhere
the map suggests it is up to the individual to get out
i used 'punishment' because there is definitely repercussions to having a shitty map or being too stubborn to refine it
but i know what you mean - punishment is a loaded word
One thing at a time, 000.
Can't get too freaky yet.
Like drawing, start with a circle, end up with Skippy the Turtle.
Quote from: triple zero on February 14, 2007, 04:29:18 PM
ok and then comes the question,
we cannot even be sure that we're receiving from the same input source!
because we can only view through the cells.
now that is a interesting twist
because that rips a whole new hole on this thing --> definitely worth investigating
Quote from: triple zero on February 14, 2007, 04:29:18 PM
fortunately we got a lot of circumstantial evidence that makes it highly probably we're all looking at the same thing, but we cannot be sure.
LAIL
Quote from: triple zero on February 14, 2007, 04:29:18 PM
maybe you should have the triangles hitting eachother with barstools as if they're poking eachother in the dark to let the others know they actually exist :p
(i don't understand the punishment bit either)
i dont know how else to describe negative feedback for moving against the grain
this is fantastic stuff!
:D
Quote from: LHX on February 14, 2007, 04:34:15 PMQuote from: triple zero on February 14, 2007, 04:29:18 PM
fortunately we got a lot of circumstantial evidence that makes it highly probably we're all looking at the same thing, but we cannot be sure.
LAIL
ok, "probable".
i can write better english if i would take more care :) but you guys go so fast  :)
Quote from: triple zero on February 14, 2007, 04:29:18 PMi dont know how else to describe negative feedback for moving against the grain
well they all communicate *through* this resource, right?
kind of like how we are all communicating through the resource hosted at Lauren (the old mgt)'s server, i.e. this forum.but if one person's filter deviates much from the other, they will start communicating nonsense, others will not like that, and they'll send punishment through the resource.
kind of like how we treat n00bs that do too much nonsense fnord 23 pineal stuff.this suggests there are certain things that pass through the filters less modified than other things.
kind of like barstools versus verbal communicationalso it suggests some kind of "aligning force" that sort of aligns different filters as they communicate, in order to communicate better. this is btw a self-organising feature that is found as an emergent property in other complex dynamic systems as well.
it still gives us no clue whether we are talking about the same reality btw. but really it's academic.
Quote from: triple zero on February 14, 2007, 04:45:13 PM
Quote from: LHX on February 14, 2007, 04:34:15 PMQuote from: triple zero on February 14, 2007, 04:29:18 PM
fortunately we got a lot of circumstantial evidence that makes it highly probably we're all looking at the same thing, but we cannot be sure.
LAIL
ok, "probable".
i can write better english if i would take more care :) but you guys go so fast :)
man
i wasnt laughing at your english bro
im just laughing at the fact that the closest we can come to fact is 'highly probable'
english sucks
dont learn it
Quote from: triple zero on February 14, 2007, 04:29:18 PM
well they all communicate *through* this resource, right?
kind of like how we are all communicating through the resource hosted at Lauren (the old mgt)'s server, i.e. this forum.
but if one person's filter deviates much from the other, they will start communicating nonsense, others will not like that, and they'll send punishment through the resource.
kind of like how we treat n00bs that do too much nonsense fnord 23 pineal stuff.
this suggests there are certain things that pass through the filters less modified than other things.
kind of like barstools versus verbal communication
also it suggests some kind of "aligning force" that sort of aligns different filters as they communicate, in order to communicate better. this is btw a self-organising feature that is found as an emergent property in other complex dynamic systems as well.
it still gives us no clue whether we are talking about the same reality btw. but really it's academic.
so you agree or disagree with the term 'punishment'?
as far as im concerned, negative feedback is punishment
not always a ass-whoopin
but some sort of penalty none the less
mistakes
refining tools
whats the gentle way to say it?
"Disalignment"?
"Miscommunication"?
"susceptible to barstools"?
Quote from: LHXi wasnt laughing at your english bro
i knoa :) i just wasn't sure what else you could be laughing about, but now i get it :)
Quote from: LHXso you agree or disagree with the term 'punishment'?
as far as im concerned, negative feedback is punishment
i agree that there is punishment, but for the general case i would go for "feedback", because there is both positive and negative and neutral of it.
Quote from: LMNO"susceptible to barstools"
:lol:
hyperbarstoolsensitive :)
nah but the feedback really is both positive and negative (
just like on this forum)
the "badness" of the prison concept comes out of the idea that we can't be sure of what we're looking at, sort of like tunnelvision, never able to see the big picture, but we aren't even able to glue the small pictures together.
but if you want a gentle term, i'd go for "negative feedback"
addendum
(http://i5.tinypic.com/49jvcd1.jpg)
still just fucking around
please feel free to dismantle/trash wherever you see fit
Interesting aspect, the size/shape of your cell allowing for more input.
as far as a clear diagram....
Fail.
Sorry.
i see it not so much as an attempt to make a really clear visual diagram, but more like an extension of LHX's usual "whitespace" mode of online speech :)
Heh.
Good point.
Quote from: LMNO on February 14, 2007, 06:15:37 PM
Interesting aspect, the size/shape of your cell allowing for more input.
as far as a clear diagram....
Fail.
Sorry.
(http://i15.tinypic.com/4hs7no5.jpg)
:lulz:
Someone is having too much fun with this...
i'm afraid we might never see a real line of text by him again ..
LHX it was good knowing ya..
good luck in the pictorial world :mrgreen:
Quote from: LHX on February 14, 2007, 04:03:27 PM
(http://i16.tinypic.com/2nr3c76.jpg)
is this a component of the generic map-in-progress here?
can we agree on the manner in which we disagree?
:mittens:
Inspired this tangential effort. Took me fucking ages too, so I don't care if no one likes it somebody had fucking better use it for something!
(http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i312/P3nT4gR4m/TheMap1.jpg)
(http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i312/P3nT4gR4m/TheMap2.jpg)
LAIL
diagram took me 47 seconds
gliffy = neeto.
here's my lame attempt!
(http://www.cwyohba.org/images/zonemap_one.png)
Quote from: triple zero on February 14, 2007, 04:58:29 PM
Quote from: LHXi wasnt laughing at your english bro
i knoa :) i just wasn't sure what else you could be laughing about, but now i get it :)
Quote from: LHXso you agree or disagree with the term 'punishment'?
as far as im concerned, negative feedback is punishment
i agree that there is punishment, but for the general case i would go for "feedback", because there is both positive and negative and neutral of it.
Quote from: LMNO"susceptible to barstools"
:lol:
hyperbarstoolsensitive :)
hyperpotopoleiokareklaevaisthitos?
That means "very bar-chair sensitive" in greek.
I think...
thanks! i needed a new custom title :mrgreen:
(if you don't mind me stealing that is)