Principia Discordia

Principia Discordia => Think for Yourself, Schmuck! => Topic started by: The Good Reverend Roger on February 20, 2007, 08:07:36 PM

Title: BIP needs more threads about bullshit superstitions.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on February 20, 2007, 08:07:36 PM
Because we all know that the best way to deal with the prison is to retreat into utter garbage like "occult studies" and "Thoth Tarot Cards".

Punch yourselves in the balls.  All of you.
Title: Re: BIP needs more threads about bullshit superstitions.
Post by: LMNO on February 20, 2007, 08:08:10 PM
I knew this was coming. 







Honest I did.
Title: Re: BIP needs more threads about bullshit superstitions.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on February 20, 2007, 08:10:04 PM
Quote from: LMNO on February 20, 2007, 08:08:10 PM
I knew this was coming. 







Honest I did.

I gotta be me.

Fuck this shit.  This is funnier, in a sad and revolting kind of way, than "energy requests" over at MW.

Mocking energy sent, you superstitious fuckheads.
Title: Re: BIP needs more threads about bullshit superstitions.
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on February 20, 2007, 08:12:38 PM
The best way to deal with bip? I'd be interested in hearing an empirical one. I don't have any better way of communicating with these guys other than this board. Is it so much hassle for you to ignore? Could always label threads with a warning tag or something. Maybe even have a bullshit occult mystical subsection somewhere? That you don't have to look at.
Title: Re: BIP needs more threads about bullshit superstitions.
Post by: LMNO on February 20, 2007, 08:14:06 PM
I suggest Cain split off the kabalah and tarot parts of this stuff & start a new subforum called "Superstitious Bullshit", so TGRR will know to avoid it as if it were full of rabid bees.
Title: Re: BIP needs more threads about bullshit superstitions.
Post by: Cain on February 20, 2007, 08:14:31 PM
Roger's objection is deeper than that.

Magickque = another prison, another tool created by the elites to let people have a safe outlet for dissidence without achieving anything. 
Title: Re: BIP needs more threads about bullshit superstitions.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on February 20, 2007, 08:14:44 PM
Quote from: SillyCybin on February 20, 2007, 08:12:38 PM
The best way to deal with bip? I'd be interested in hearing an empirical one. I don't have any better way of communicating with these guys other than this board. Is it so much hassle for you to ignore? Could always label threads with a warning tag or something. Maybe even have a bullshit occult mystical subsection somewhere? That you don't have to look at.

But I WANT to look at it.

Making fun of backwards-assed primitives is one of the few joys in my life.

Now, pretend I'm not here laughing at all of you, and go back to discussing divination like it's physics.

:lulz:
Title: Re: BIP needs more threads about bullshit superstitions.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on February 20, 2007, 08:15:15 PM
Quote from: LMNO on February 20, 2007, 08:14:06 PM
I suggest Cain split off the kabalah and tarot parts of this stuff & start a new subforum called "Superstitious Bullshit", so TGRR will know to avoid it as if it were full of rabid bees.

...Or wade in up to my hips and start smiting idiots.  Whichever.
Title: Re: BIP needs more threads about bullshit superstitions.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on February 20, 2007, 08:16:31 PM
Quote from: Cain on February 20, 2007, 08:14:31 PM
Roger's objection is deeper than that.

Magickque = another prison, another tool created by the elites to let people have a safe outlet for dissidence without achieving anything. 

Ding ding ding.

Plus, it's fucking ridiculous on its face.  It's MADE UP BULLSHIT.  It simply ISN'T REAL.

But I have no problem with it contaminating BIP, because that's just more dumbasses for me to laugh at, as the Bush years wear on.
Title: Re: BIP needs more threads about bullshit superstitions.
Post by: Cain on February 20, 2007, 08:20:16 PM
I'm not going to create another subforum, I have decided.  For the amount of topics on the issue, it simply isn't worth it.  I don't like creating extra forums unless needed, and certainly not ones which will mostly be empty.

This isn't a final decision sort of thing, more "as things stand now".
Title: Re: BIP needs more threads about bullshit superstitions.
Post by: LMNO on February 20, 2007, 08:21:10 PM
But Rog, if you agree that the human mind tries to make connections between whatever it sees, and that those connection seem to mimic the human thought process in part, why wouldn't examining a system that's been developed for centuries shed some light onto a part of the human mind?


and if you can use it to fuck with people, why shouldn't you learn it?
Title: Re: BIP needs more threads about bullshit superstitions.
Post by: AFK on February 20, 2007, 08:21:30 PM
I do, to a certain degree, understand where TGRR is coming from.  I read the "occult" threads but find I have little to contribute because that stuff just doesn't resonate with me, personally.  But different strokes, etc.  I don't really think you need to split things off or anything.  We're all different and we all bring different things to the table (which was what I was TRYING to get at with my earlier "exercise" thread).  Maybe I'm being overly diplomatic but just wanted to put in my observations.  I just avoid what I can't get into.  
Title: Re: BIP needs more threads about bullshit superstitions.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on February 20, 2007, 08:21:50 PM
Quote from: Cain on February 20, 2007, 08:20:16 PM
I'm not going to create another subforum, I have decided.  For the amount of topics on the issue, it simply isn't worth it.  I don't like creating extra forums unless needed, and certainly not ones which will mostly be empty.

This isn't a final decision sort of thing, more "as things stand now".

Bummer.  Well, that's okay.  I shall simply have to continue working for my laffs.

By hunting up this ridiculous bullshit the old fashioned way.
Title: Re: BIP needs more threads about bullshit superstitions.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on February 20, 2007, 08:22:51 PM
Quote from: LMNO on February 20, 2007, 08:21:10 PM
But Rog, if you agree that the human mind tries to make connections between whatever it sees, and that those connection seem to mimic the human thought process in part, why wouldn't examining a system that's been developed for centuries shed some light onto a part of the human mind?


and if you can use it to fuck with people, why shouldn't you learn it?

By that standard, we should all learn Aristotle's version of why rocks fall when you drop them.

I can just wing it, when I fuck with Pagans.  Hell, THEY do.
Title: Re: BIP needs more threads about bullshit superstitions.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on February 20, 2007, 08:23:40 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on February 20, 2007, 08:21:30 PM
I do, to a certain degree, understand where TGRR is coming from.  I read the "occult" threads but find I have little to contribute because that stuff just doesn't resonate with me, personally.  But different strokes, etc.  I don't really think you need to split things off or anything.  We're all different and we all bring different things to the table (which was what I was TRYING to get at with my earlier "exercise" thread).  Maybe I'm being overly diplomatic but just wanted to put in my observations.  I just avoid what I can't get into.  

Everyone should bring what they have to the table.  That way, I can laugh at the twits without having to go look for them.
Title: Re: BIP needs more threads about bullshit superstitions.
Post by: LMNO on February 20, 2007, 08:24:53 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 20, 2007, 08:22:51 PM

By that standard, we should all learn Aristotle's version of why rocks fall when you drop them.

I can just wing it, when I fuck with Pagans. Hell, THEY do.

Good point.

I had an experience at a party this weekend, that put me in mind of this pragmatist approach.

If I can find the time, I'll write it up.
Title: Re: BIP needs more threads about bullshit superstitions.
Post by: LHX on February 20, 2007, 09:26:17 PM
last time i tried to figure out how something worked, it took a look at its components

its not as sexy as being a shit-kicking gun slinger
but it pays its dividends

theres room for everybody



theres not many pussies around here anymore
Title: Re: BIP needs more threads about bullshit superstitions.
Post by: Jasper on February 21, 2007, 06:39:19 AM
I saw mystical talk in the BIP forum and sort of steered clear for a while because it was such a contradiction in terms for me.

Reality pollutants.

BIPstool experiments tend to debunk anything but empirical and objective realities. 

I thought that was the point.
Title: Re: BIP needs more threads about bullshit superstitions.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on February 21, 2007, 06:44:44 AM
Quote from: LHX on February 20, 2007, 09:26:17 PM
last time i tried to figure out how something worked, it took a look at its components

It doesn't work.
Title: Re: BIP needs more threads about bullshit superstitions.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on February 21, 2007, 06:45:06 AM
Quote from: Felix Mackay on February 21, 2007, 06:39:19 AM
I saw mystical talk in the BIP forum and sort of steered clear for a while because it was such a contradiction in terms for me.


It is.
Title: Re: BIP needs more threads about bullshit superstitions.
Post by: Jasper on February 21, 2007, 06:47:07 AM
To quote a videogame I played recently, "Technology and discipline will always triumph over superstitious slobs", or words to that effect.
Title: Re: BIP needs more threads about bullshit superstitions.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on February 21, 2007, 06:48:14 AM
Quote from: Felix Mackay on February 21, 2007, 06:47:07 AM
To quote a videogame I played recently, "Technology and discipline will always triumph over superstitious slobs", or words to that effect.

Or, in this case, the laughter of The Good Rev shall triumph over silly-ass pseudo-scientific "explorations" of shit that doesn't work.
Title: Re: BIP needs more threads about bullshit superstitions.
Post by: Jasper on February 21, 2007, 06:50:01 AM
I just like the word slob.
Title: Re: BIP needs more threads about bullshit superstitions.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on February 21, 2007, 06:59:30 AM
Quote from: Felix Mackay on February 21, 2007, 06:50:01 AM
I just like the word slob.

Okay:

Or, in this case, the laughter of The Good Rev shall triumph over silly-ass pseudo-scientific "explorations" of shit that doesn't work.  By slobs.
Title: Re: BIP needs more threads about bullshit superstitions.
Post by: Jasper on February 21, 2007, 07:02:40 AM
Excellent.
Title: Re: BIP needs more threads about bullshit superstitions.
Post by: Triple Zero on February 21, 2007, 10:07:30 AM
if this stuff is irrelevant to the BIP, then why does it keep popping up its head every time we discuss the more metaphysical side of things?

just FYI, metaphysics = philosophy, not magic.

metaphysics in philosophy is all about the "what is" and "what does 'being' mean". i assume it is obvious how this relates to the black iron prison concept?

ok

now metaphysics has been trampled all over by the machine called Science. some stuff has been written down in the books and is taught today, some stuff has been ridiculed and hidden away.
and just before you start "well maybe there was a GOOD REASON why it had been ridiculed" -- hear me.

i'm not really sure how much you know about the scientific world.

just because these people happen to pretend to use the scientific method daily in their researches, doesn't mean that most of them are complete and utter monkeys fed by large corporations and their bloated egos.
most of them aren't about doing scientific research, but about who "cites" their papers how much and how often. definitely not about "why" they're cited. for proof, check http://citeseer.ist.psu.edu/ this is the largest online library of scientific publications. it has no content, because that's usually copyrighted (:argh!:), only a big database about who cites who.

thought the whole Galileo thing was a historical curiosity, brought on by the rule of the Church back then?
think again, this stuff is still happening every day, and new theories aren't crushed by those Creationism idiots (sorry but really that's only a mere american disease), it's the fucking CHURCH OF SCIENCE that cannot handle two paradigms at the same time, has to crush and destroy all but one of them, no matter if it's one that makes most sense or if they have to slander on some professor to do it. can't handle two paradigms.
check out Arp (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halton_Arp)'s research for a recent example. (ok given, his theories have been proven wrong in the mean time, but they weren't implausible at all, they just happen to invalidate nearly every other cosmological model that happened to be at that time. no thanks to the scientific method, this man has been ridiculed and cannot get any "observation time" at any observation station in the world anymore, just because they don't like him)

so please, i'm (almost) a scientist, and i ask you, stop talking about science as if it's a plausible way to get to the troof. in theory, maybe. but in practice science = politics = magic just as anything.




now, just to be clear on this: i don't believe the occult stuff either. at all. when i first approached it, i was ambivalent about whether it works or not, but soon learned what it's mostly about. which is psychology. another science. not even an exact science (fact: psychologists are afraid of maths). HEAVILY sponsored by mind-medicine corporations. if you knew how that world works, i cannot imagine why you would trust their ramblings either.

but i DO happen to find this occult stuff incredibly interesting. why? i dunno really. but trust me, it's not because i think i can use it to magiqually affect reality in any sort of way, really.
and i think this goes for most of the people on this board enjoying to discuss these matters. it's enjoyable fun stuff to play with, and is about as scientifically valid as psychology. plus, you may not have noticed this, but we did get some of the core ideas of the BIP from these occult things. useful ideas. useful like metaphysical philosophy and/or psychology.

maybe it's not entirely constructive talking about it, but it's fun, can we have our vices? i'm sure you do as well.
Title: Re: BIP needs more threads about bullshit superstitions.
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on February 21, 2007, 11:23:38 AM
Nothing fucking works anyway. Slamming someone in the face with a barstool might as a short term measure but ultimately only by escalating this to absolute genocide could you ever solve the BIP. Why bother trying anything?

I explore my own psychology on account of it's a piece of piss to do so and it's interesting. Same as it's interesting driving cars really fast. BIP is about influencing the way people think. To do that it helps if you know how a mind works. If I want to know how something works I take it to bits and see.

So I find out two things in there, on account of I broke mine the first couple of times.

1- psychology can be influenced by chemicals
2- psychology can be influenced by ideas

number 1 is too tricky to pull off. Spiking someone with just the right dose of just the right chemical is likely to do as much harm as good in the attempt to get your point across. Of course if you abandon the point-making and just want the shits and giggles then spiking them with a huge hit of acid should be good for a laugh

number 2 is also tricky, there's a lot of work involved, lotta stuff to learn. And you need some kinda of notation to keep it all in order.

I practice both on myself and occasionally will test the second one on others.

Bottom line - there's next to nothing you can do for others, they're pretty much fucked unless they've more or less decided to make steps themself The best you can hope for is to be there to push them over the edge.

The only thing that got my goat was rog's insistence that this wasn't 'the best way to dead with bip' - sounded too much like an evangelist. Like there could be a best way. The best way is whatever the fuck you feel like doing. Make a poster, deface a government building, stab someone in the throat, fuck a horse... use wierd diagrams to fuck with your own mind.

'the best way' = same attitude that believes the constitution could ever be anything more than idealistic hippy bullshit.
Title: Re: BIP needs more threads about bullshit superstitions.
Post by: LHX on February 21, 2007, 01:21:30 PM
everybodys panties get in a bunch when they see the word occult


its like everybody got tricked one time and it left a bad taste in the mouth
Title: Re: BIP needs more threads about bullshit superstitions.
Post by: LHX on February 21, 2007, 01:23:07 PM
Quote from: triple zero on February 21, 2007, 10:07:30 AM
if this stuff is irrelevant to the BIP, then why does it keep popping up its head every time we discuss the more metaphysical side of things?

just FYI, metaphysics = philosophy, not magic.

metaphysics in philosophy is all about the "what is" and "what does 'being' mean". i assume it is obvious how this relates to the black iron prison concept?
end of thread
Title: Re: BIP needs more threads about bullshit superstitions.
Post by: LMNO on February 21, 2007, 01:29:52 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 20, 2007, 08:07:36 PM
Because we all know that the best way to deal with the prison is to retreat into utter garbage like "occult studies" and "Thoth Tarot Cards".

Punch yourselves in the balls.  All of you.


Ok, I was thinking about this...  It all seems to predicate around a few things:

1.  There is 'a' best way.

2.  The Prison can be dealt with; which brings up the question that i don't think has been covered yet.  "How do we 'deal' with the Prison, and what does that even mean?"  LHX had the idea of "expanding the size" of the cell, and some of us talked of "escaping from one cell into another".  We seem to have agreed that we can never escape the Prison (i.e. the limitations on our perceptions), but we can do our best to escape a 'restricted' way of seeing things.  These 'restrictions' appear to be dogmaticism and a lack of objectivity, and a lack of critical thinking.

3.  That TGRR believes we are uncritical and completely buy into what we're calling "the occult", which I posit is quite untrue.  If Cain talks about "double binds", or someone says something about "psychological symbol manipulation", they aren't saying the believe it 100%, come hell or high water, they are saying it's something interesting to look into.  To me qblh is built around double binds and symbol manipulation, and Crowley built his career on it.  I'm sure if i wanted to, I could convert all the material that's being objected to into discussions of Jungian archetypes, psychological manipulation of preconceptions, and limbic system cascades.  But you know what?  It's the same damn thing.  How's that for a barstool?

4.  Science is very good for describing how things move through space-time, and what sort of molecules they're made up of.  But that's about it.  If you consider that to be the sum of existence, you might as well become a nihilist now.

5.  Fifth post.  Yeah, I went there.
Title: Re: BIP needs more threads about bullshit superstitions.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on February 21, 2007, 02:24:20 PM
Quote from: triple zero on February 21, 2007, 10:07:30 AM
if this stuff is irrelevant to the BIP, then why does it keep popping up its head every time we discuss the more metaphysical side of things?

just FYI, metaphysics = philosophy, not magic.

But who is talking about metaphysics?  :lol:

Half the fucking conversations are about divination, etc.
Title: Re: BIP needs more threads about bullshit superstitions.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on February 21, 2007, 02:24:56 PM
Quote from: LHX on February 21, 2007, 01:21:30 PM
everybodys panties get in a bunch when they see the word occult


Well, either that, or they're laughing at you.  One or the other.
Title: Re: BIP needs more threads about bullshit superstitions.
Post by: Triple Zero on February 21, 2007, 02:47:36 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 21, 2007, 02:24:20 PMHalf the fucking conversations are about divination, etc.

oh.

i must have missed that half where people were talking about prediction the future, then.

because that wasn't what i was talking about. nor anybody else, as far as i've seen.

just because some of the topics discussed here might be used for divinating stuff, doesn't mean that's the only use. and i think we have been quite explicitly NOT discussing these topics as a means of divination.
Title: Re: BIP needs more threads about bullshit superstitions.
Post by: LHX on February 21, 2007, 02:48:50 PM
divination: the world is ending


isnt that mystickqal mahdgickqual?
Title: Re: BIP needs more threads about bullshit superstitions.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on February 21, 2007, 02:50:25 PM
Quote from: triple zero on February 21, 2007, 02:47:36 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 21, 2007, 02:24:20 PMHalf the fucking conversations are about divination, etc.

oh.

i must have missed that half where people were talking about prediction the future, then.

because that wasn't what i was talking about. nor anybody else, as far as i've seen.

just because some of the topics discussed here might be used for divinating stuff, doesn't mean that's the only use. and i think we have been quite explicitly NOT discussing these topics as a means of divination.

http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=11631.0

Title: Re: BIP needs more threads about bullshit superstitions.
Post by: Triple Zero on February 21, 2007, 03:18:39 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 21, 2007, 02:50:25 PMhttp://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=11631.0

and these are "divinations" how?

what i see is a pictorial representation about the stuff we've been saying with words already for some time.

also:

Quote from: LMNOOn the matter of "occult" knowledge: It would seem to me that this would merely be another way to shape your cell

are you sure it's not just simply the word "occult" that is what you have a problem with?

because as--I think it was LMNO--said, we could have just as well worded the same content into another framework, one that is supported by the sciences, would that have provoked the same strong reaction from you?