What's the best way to deal with the Black Iron Prison?
I feel I'm missing something, here.
Quote from: LMNO on February 21, 2007, 02:23:09 PM
What's the best way to deal with the Black Iron Prison?
I feel I'm missing something, here.
Obviously, first we need to light a big fire and bang on drums.
This will keep the evil spirits away until we find a solution.
Rational discussion fucks up your chakras.
1. print more cool pamphlets for people that dont read it
2. pick fights with people willing to work with you
3. make up fake accusations and then pretend like its real then post on a forum about it for days
4. tell everybody you got a idea for something and then dont follow thru on it (even im guilty of that one)
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 21, 2007, 02:26:07 PM
Quote from: LMNO on February 21, 2007, 02:23:09 PM
What's the best way to deal with the Black Iron Prison?
I feel I'm missing something, here.
Obviously, first we need to light a big fire and bang on drums.
This will keep the evil spirits away until we find a solution.
Rational discussion fucks up your chakras.
Har! :lulz:
That was an honest question, Rog. Any ideas?
rational discussion led to all this
Quote from: LMNO on February 21, 2007, 02:30:11 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 21, 2007, 02:26:07 PM
Quote from: LMNO on February 21, 2007, 02:23:09 PM
What's the best way to deal with the Black Iron Prison?
I feel I'm missing something, here.
Obviously, first we need to light a big fire and bang on drums.
This will keep the evil spirits away until we find a solution.
Rational discussion fucks up your chakras.
Har!   :lulz:
That was an honest question, Rog.  Any ideas?
I've been stating my idea for the last 4+ years, on this very board. I'll restate it, if you like.
Quote from: LHX on February 21, 2007, 02:31:25 PM
rational discussion led to all this
Naw. Talking about divination as if it were science led to this.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 21, 2007, 02:31:57 PM
I've been stating my idea for the last 4+ years, on this very board.  I'll restate it, if you like.
You mean, blow shit up and laugh at the monkeys?
Or the "think for yourself, schmuck" meme?
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 21, 2007, 02:32:45 PM
Quote from: LHX on February 21, 2007, 02:31:25 PM
rational discussion led to all this
Naw. Talking about divination as if it were science led to this.
you tell me the relationship between science and the use of written symbols
tell us about the monkeys
Quote from: LMNO on February 21, 2007, 02:34:07 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 21, 2007, 02:31:57 PM
I've been stating my idea for the last 4+ years, on this very board.  I'll restate it, if you like.
You mean, blow shit up and laugh at the monkeys?
Or the "think for yourself, schmuck" meme?
Um.  No.
More along the lines of:  "Be free.  If anyone tries to stop you, kick them in the Jimmy.  Don't stop other people from being free, but laugh at them when they stop themselves."
But it IS fun to blow shit up and laugh at the monkeys.  I won't deny that.
Quote from: LHX on February 21, 2007, 02:35:16 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 21, 2007, 02:32:45 PM
Quote from: LHX on February 21, 2007, 02:31:25 PM
rational discussion led to all this
Naw.  Talking about divination as if it were science led to this.
you tell me the relationship between science and the use of written symbols
tell us about the monkeys
Hush. I'm focusing my crystal energies. I gotta obtain Sartori by noon or there'll be hell to pay.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 21, 2007, 02:36:11 PM
More along the lines of: "Be free. If anyone tries to stop you, kick them in the Jimmy. Don't stop other people from being free, but laugh at them when they stop themselves."
But it IS fun to blow shit up and laugh at the monkeys. I won't deny that.
Apparently, it sounds as if us thinking about non-pragmatic things is an inhibition on your freedom.
Quote from: LMNO on February 21, 2007, 02:23:09 PM
What's the best way to deal with the Black Iron Prison?
I feel I'm missing something, here.
1. To understand the BIP, you need a sense of clarity in understanding what constitutes a bar or restraint in thinking.
2. The occult has no physical effect. Belief in the occult is a different matter.
3. How do we, or why should we, differentiate between the occult and other strains of religion? Barring an exceptionally rich and diverse mix of symbols, there is little difference I can see.
4. How do we understand the mechanisms by which belief can either be liberationary or reactionary?
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 21, 2007, 02:37:01 PM
Quote from: LHX on February 21, 2007, 02:35:16 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 21, 2007, 02:32:45 PM
Quote from: LHX on February 21, 2007, 02:31:25 PM
rational discussion led to all this
Naw. Talking about divination as if it were science led to this.
you tell me the relationship between science and the use of written symbols
tell us about the monkeys
Hush. I'm focusing my crystal energies. I gotta obtain Sartori by noon or there'll be hell to pay.
thats the equivalent of me teasing you about the shirt and tie you are wearing and your collection of Bel-Biv-Divoe CDs
Quote from: LMNO on February 21, 2007, 02:39:20 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 21, 2007, 02:36:11 PM
More along the lines of:  "Be free.  If anyone tries to stop you, kick them in the Jimmy.  Don't stop other people from being free, but laugh at them when they stop themselves."
But it IS fun to blow shit up and laugh at the monkeys.  I won't deny that.
Apparently, it sounds as if us thinking about non-pragmatic things is an inhibition on your freedom.
Nope.  Please re-read the last sentence of my first paragraph.
Quote from: LHX on February 21, 2007, 02:40:41 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 21, 2007, 02:37:01 PM
Quote from: LHX on February 21, 2007, 02:35:16 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 21, 2007, 02:32:45 PM
Quote from: LHX on February 21, 2007, 02:31:25 PM
rational discussion led to all this
Naw.  Talking about divination as if it were science led to this.
you tell me the relationship between science and the use of written symbols
tell us about the monkeys
Hush.  I'm focusing my crystal energies.  I gotta obtain Sartori by noon or there'll be hell to pay.
thats the equivalent of me teasing you about the shirt and tie you are wearing and your collection of Bel-Biv-Divoe CDs
You leave Bel-Biv-Divoe out of this, you heathen.
Sartori or bust.
Quote from: Cain on February 21, 2007, 02:39:57 PM
Quote from: LMNO on February 21, 2007, 02:23:09 PM
What's the best way to deal with the Black Iron Prison?
I feel I'm missing something, here.
1. To understand the BIP, you need a sense of clarity in understanding what constitutes a bar or restraint in thinking.
2. The occult has no physical effect. Belief in the occult is a different matter.
3. How do we, or why should we, differentiate between the occult and other strains of religion? Barring an exceptionally rich and diverse mix of symbols, there is little difference I can see.
4. How do we understand the mechanisms by which belief can either be liberationary or reactionary?
this seems to be a accurate depiction of how things are being discussed in this forum
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 21, 2007, 02:41:25 PM
Quote from: LHX on February 21, 2007, 02:40:41 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 21, 2007, 02:37:01 PM
Quote from: LHX on February 21, 2007, 02:35:16 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 21, 2007, 02:32:45 PM
Quote from: LHX on February 21, 2007, 02:31:25 PM
rational discussion led to all this
Naw. Talking about divination as if it were science led to this.
you tell me the relationship between science and the use of written symbols
tell us about the monkeys
Hush. I'm focusing my crystal energies. I gotta obtain Sartori by noon or there'll be hell to pay.
thats the equivalent of me teasing you about the shirt and tie you are wearing and your collection of Bel-Biv-Divoe CDs
You leave Bel-Biv-Divoe out of this, you heathen.
Sartori or bust.
you can still preserve the friendship
Quote from: Cain on February 21, 2007, 02:39:57 PM
Quote from: LMNO on February 21, 2007, 02:23:09 PM
What's the best way to deal with the Black Iron Prison?
I feel I'm missing something, here.
1. To understand the BIP, you need a sense of clarity in understanding what constitutes a bar or restraint in thinking.
2. The occult has no physical effect.  Belief in the occult is a different matter.
3. How do we, or why should we, differentiate between the occult and other strains of religion?  Barring an exceptionally rich and diverse mix of symbols, there is little difference I can see.
4. How do we understand the mechanisms by which belief can either be liberationary or reactionary?
Easy.  You want to understand religion and it's effects?  Great.  Study monkeys at worship.  Don't pretend their rituals have any more power or effect - or have any more structure - than any other ritual (which is to say, they fool only their own adherents, and have NO effect on the rest of the world, other than as expressed by their adherents).
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 21, 2007, 02:40:48 PM
Quote from: LMNO on February 21, 2007, 02:39:20 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 21, 2007, 02:36:11 PM
More along the lines of:  "Be free.  If anyone tries to stop you, kick them in the Jimmy.  Don't stop other people from being free, but laugh at them when they stop themselves."
But it IS fun to blow shit up and laugh at the monkeys.  I won't deny that.
Apparently, it sounds as if us thinking about non-pragmatic things is an inhibition on your freedom.
Nope.  Please re-read the last sentence of my first paragraph.
Ah, so you appear think that us merely
talking (not believing, mind you) about non-pragmatic things is hindering our freedom.
Quote from: LHX on February 21, 2007, 02:42:09 PM
Quote from: Cain on February 21, 2007, 02:39:57 PM
Quote from: LMNO on February 21, 2007, 02:23:09 PM
What's the best way to deal with the Black Iron Prison?
I feel I'm missing something, here.
1. To understand the BIP, you need a sense of clarity in understanding what constitutes a bar or restraint in thinking.
2. The occult has no physical effect.  Belief in the occult is a different matter.
3. How do we, or why should we, differentiate between the occult and other strains of religion?  Barring an exceptionally rich and diverse mix of symbols, there is little difference I can see.
4. How do we understand the mechanisms by which belief can either be liberationary or reactionary?
this seems to be a accurate depiction of how things are being discussed in this forum
No, it isn't.  Watching how monkeys behave when subjected to superstition is one thing.  Trying to discover the "process" of one particular superstition is quite another.
there is no connection between mind and body ANYWHERE
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 21, 2007, 02:44:10 PM
Quote from: Cain on February 21, 2007, 02:39:57 PM
Quote from: LMNO on February 21, 2007, 02:23:09 PM
What's the best way to deal with the Black Iron Prison?
I feel I'm missing something, here.
1. To understand the BIP, you need a sense of clarity in understanding what constitutes a bar or restraint in thinking.
2. The occult has no physical effect. Belief in the occult is a different matter.
3. How do we, or why should we, differentiate between the occult and other strains of religion? Barring an exceptionally rich and diverse mix of symbols, there is little difference I can see.
4. How do we understand the mechanisms by which belief can either be liberationary or reactionary?
Easy. You want to understand religion and it's effects? Great. Study monkeys at worship. Don't pretend their rituals have any more power or effect - or have any more structure - than any other ritual (which is to say, they fool only their own adherents, and have NO effect on the rest of the world, other than as expressed by their adherents).
Actually, I'm pretty interested in why sometimes passive-aggressive religions (like Christianity) can create something like Liberation Theology. Or like I mentioned with Dr Howl, how Taoism, with its conception of wu-wei, could produce agarian resistance to Chinese central control.
If we could understand how that works, then perhaps all of this recent discussion could have a use.
Quote from: LMNO on February 21, 2007, 02:44:41 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 21, 2007, 02:40:48 PM
Quote from: LMNO on February 21, 2007, 02:39:20 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 21, 2007, 02:36:11 PM
More along the lines of:  "Be free.  If anyone tries to stop you, kick them in the Jimmy.  Don't stop other people from being free, but laugh at them when they stop themselves."
But it IS fun to blow shit up and laugh at the monkeys.  I won't deny that.
Apparently, it sounds as if us thinking about non-pragmatic things is an inhibition on your freedom.
Nope.  Please re-read the last sentence of my first paragraph.
Ah, so you appear think that us merely talking (not believing, mind you) about non-pragmatic things is hindering our freedom.
Where did I say that?  On the other hand, talking about how many Thoth tarot decks you own just sets my funny bone off.
Quote from: LHX on February 21, 2007, 02:46:13 PM
there is no connection between mind and body ANYWHERE
Spinal cord. Owned.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 21, 2007, 02:44:10 PM
Quote from: Cain on February 21, 2007, 02:39:57 PM
Quote from: LMNO on February 21, 2007, 02:23:09 PM
What's the best way to deal with the Black Iron Prison?
I feel I'm missing something, here.
1. To understand the BIP, you need a sense of clarity in understanding what constitutes a bar or restraint in thinking.
2. The occult has no physical effect. Belief in the occult is a different matter.
3. How do we, or why should we, differentiate between the occult and other strains of religion? Barring an exceptionally rich and diverse mix of symbols, there is little difference I can see.
4. How do we understand the mechanisms by which belief can either be liberationary or reactionary?
Easy. You want to understand religion and it's effects? Great. Study monkeys at worship. Don't pretend their rituals have any more power or effect - or have any more structure - than any other ritual (which is to say, they fool only their own adherents, and have NO effect on the rest of the world, other than as expressed by their adherents).
sounds to me like you are describing a process
Quote from: Cain on February 21, 2007, 02:46:37 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 21, 2007, 02:44:10 PM
Quote from: Cain on February 21, 2007, 02:39:57 PM
Quote from: LMNO on February 21, 2007, 02:23:09 PM
What's the best way to deal with the Black Iron Prison?
I feel I'm missing something, here.
1. To understand the BIP, you need a sense of clarity in understanding what constitutes a bar or restraint in thinking.
2. The occult has no physical effect.  Belief in the occult is a different matter.
3. How do we, or why should we, differentiate between the occult and other strains of religion?  Barring an exceptionally rich and diverse mix of symbols, there is little difference I can see.
4. How do we understand the mechanisms by which belief can either be liberationary or reactionary?
Easy.  You want to understand religion and it's effects?  Great.  Study monkeys at worship.  Don't pretend their rituals have any more power or effect - or have any more structure - than any other ritual (which is to say, they fool only their own adherents, and have NO effect on the rest of the world, other than as expressed by their adherents).
Actually, I'm pretty interested in why sometimes passive-aggressive religions (like Christianity) can create something like Liberation Theology.  Or like I mentioned with Dr Howl, how Taoism, with its conception of wu-wei, could produce agarian resistance to Chinese central control.
If we could understand how that works, then perhaps all of this recent discussion could have a use.
And that's just great.  But trying to figure out the "underlying process" behind speaking in tongues isn't going to help gain an understanding.  THAT is what I am saying.
Quote from: LHX on February 21, 2007, 02:47:19 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 21, 2007, 02:44:10 PM
Quote from: Cain on February 21, 2007, 02:39:57 PM
Quote from: LMNO on February 21, 2007, 02:23:09 PM
What's the best way to deal with the Black Iron Prison?
I feel I'm missing something, here.
1. To understand the BIP, you need a sense of clarity in understanding what constitutes a bar or restraint in thinking.
2. The occult has no physical effect.  Belief in the occult is a different matter.
3. How do we, or why should we, differentiate between the occult and other strains of religion?  Barring an exceptionally rich and diverse mix of symbols, there is little difference I can see.
4. How do we understand the mechanisms by which belief can either be liberationary or reactionary?
Easy.  You want to understand religion and it's effects?  Great.  Study monkeys at worship.  Don't pretend their rituals have any more power or effect - or have any more structure - than any other ritual (which is to say, they fool only their own adherents, and have NO effect on the rest of the world, other than as expressed by their adherents).
sounds to me like you are describing a process
Naw. Needs more chicken feet.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 21, 2007, 02:48:19 PM
Quote from: Cain on February 21, 2007, 02:46:37 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 21, 2007, 02:44:10 PM
Quote from: Cain on February 21, 2007, 02:39:57 PM
Quote from: LMNO on February 21, 2007, 02:23:09 PM
What's the best way to deal with the Black Iron Prison?
I feel I'm missing something, here.
1. To understand the BIP, you need a sense of clarity in understanding what constitutes a bar or restraint in thinking.
2. The occult has no physical effect. Belief in the occult is a different matter.
3. How do we, or why should we, differentiate between the occult and other strains of religion? Barring an exceptionally rich and diverse mix of symbols, there is little difference I can see.
4. How do we understand the mechanisms by which belief can either be liberationary or reactionary?
Easy. You want to understand religion and it's effects? Great. Study monkeys at worship. Don't pretend their rituals have any more power or effect - or have any more structure - than any other ritual (which is to say, they fool only their own adherents, and have NO effect on the rest of the world, other than as expressed by their adherents).
Actually, I'm pretty interested in why sometimes passive-aggressive religions (like Christianity) can create something like Liberation Theology. Or like I mentioned with Dr Howl, how Taoism, with its conception of wu-wei, could produce agarian resistance to Chinese central control.
If we could understand how that works, then perhaps all of this recent discussion could have a use.
And that's just great. But trying to figure out the "underlying process" behind speaking in tongues isn't going to help gain an understanding. THAT is what I am saying.
Oh, I agree. I'm just trying to find a way to move the recent discussion to more fruitful grounds.
there is no connection between man and the universe ANYWHERE
Quote from: LHX on February 21, 2007, 02:50:12 PM
there is no connection between man and the universe ANYWHERE
Oh, do tell. Are you gonna "connect to the universe" with Thoth tarot cards? :lulz:
Quote from: Cain on February 21, 2007, 02:49:59 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 21, 2007, 02:48:19 PM
Quote from: Cain on February 21, 2007, 02:46:37 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 21, 2007, 02:44:10 PM
Quote from: Cain on February 21, 2007, 02:39:57 PM
Quote from: LMNO on February 21, 2007, 02:23:09 PM
What's the best way to deal with the Black Iron Prison?
I feel I'm missing something, here.
1. To understand the BIP, you need a sense of clarity in understanding what constitutes a bar or restraint in thinking.
2. The occult has no physical effect. Belief in the occult is a different matter.
3. How do we, or why should we, differentiate between the occult and other strains of religion? Barring an exceptionally rich and diverse mix of symbols, there is little difference I can see.
4. How do we understand the mechanisms by which belief can either be liberationary or reactionary?
Easy. You want to understand religion and it's effects? Great. Study monkeys at worship. Don't pretend their rituals have any more power or effect - or have any more structure - than any other ritual (which is to say, they fool only their own adherents, and have NO effect on the rest of the world, other than as expressed by their adherents).
Actually, I'm pretty interested in why sometimes passive-aggressive religions (like Christianity) can create something like Liberation Theology. Or like I mentioned with Dr Howl, how Taoism, with its conception of wu-wei, could produce agarian resistance to Chinese central control.
If we could understand how that works, then perhaps all of this recent discussion could have a use.
And that's just great. But trying to figure out the "underlying process" behind speaking in tongues isn't going to help gain an understanding. THAT is what I am saying.
Oh, I agree. I'm just trying to find a way to move the recent discussion to more fruitful grounds.
oh itll bear fruit
theres nobody left here who has the flounce gene
so
we either sort this out or the internet implodes
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 21, 2007, 02:51:15 PM
Quote from: LHX on February 21, 2007, 02:50:12 PM
there is no connection between man and the universe ANYWHERE
Oh, do tell. Are you gonna "connect to the universe" with Thoth tarot cards? :lulz:
better:
a barstool
Quote from: Cain on February 21, 2007, 02:49:59 PM
Oh, I agree.  I'm just trying to find a way to move the recent discussion to more fruitful grounds.
Too late.  I have offended the local mahdgjickque priests.
Sorry about that.
Quote from: LHX on February 21, 2007, 02:51:46 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 21, 2007, 02:51:15 PM
Quote from: LHX on February 21, 2007, 02:50:12 PM
there is no connection between man and the universe ANYWHERE
Oh, do tell.  Are you gonna "connect to the universe" with Thoth tarot cards?  :lulz:
better:
a barstool
Only once we discover the "process" behind whacking people in the head with it.
Quote from: Cain on February 21, 2007, 02:39:57 PM
Quote from: LMNO on February 21, 2007, 02:23:09 PM
What's the best way to deal with the Black Iron Prison?
I feel I'm missing something, here.
1. To understand the BIP, you need a sense of clarity in understanding what constitutes a bar or restraint in thinking.
2. The occult has no physical effect.  Belief in the occult is a different matter.
3. How do we, or why should we, differentiate between the occult and other strains of religion?  Barring an exceptionally rich and diverse mix of symbols, there is little difference I can see.
4. How do we understand the mechanisms by which belief can either be liberationary or reactionary?
1.  True.
2.  True.
3.  By "differentiate", do you mean to give weight or validity to one tradition over another?  Because I would say that the symbols, if understood, can be used to affect the mental (
not the physical) aspects of other people; and if unaware, can be used against me.  Apart from studying them, I see no way of understanding them and their possible mental effects.
4.  I'm unsure how to answer that.  It seems that one way to understand the mechanisms is to study the beliefs themselves, and reverse engineer.
a barstool aimed at the right spot...
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 21, 2007, 02:46:42 PM
Quote from: LMNO on February 21, 2007, 02:44:41 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 21, 2007, 02:40:48 PM
Quote from: LMNO on February 21, 2007, 02:39:20 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 21, 2007, 02:36:11 PM
More along the lines of:  "Be free.  If anyone tries to stop you, kick them in the Jimmy.  Don't stop other people from being free, but laugh at them when they stop themselves."
But it IS fun to blow shit up and laugh at the monkeys.  I won't deny that.
Apparently, it sounds as if us thinking about non-pragmatic things is an inhibition on your freedom.
Nope.  Please re-read the last sentence of my first paragraph.
Ah, so you appear think that us merely talking (not believing, mind you) about non-pragmatic things is hindering our freedom.
Where did I say that?  On the other hand, talking about how many Thoth tarot decks you own just sets my funny bone off.
Last sentence of first paragraph: "Don't stop other people from being free, but laugh at them when they stop themselves."  You were mocking the conversations about the occult.  Therefore, it seems you think we are stopping ourselves from being free.  
Also, as far as I recall, the topic was on the difference of symbology between two systems.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 21, 2007, 02:48:19 PM
Quote from: Cain on February 21, 2007, 02:46:37 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 21, 2007, 02:44:10 PM
Quote from: Cain on February 21, 2007, 02:39:57 PM
Quote from: LMNO on February 21, 2007, 02:23:09 PM
What's the best way to deal with the Black Iron Prison?
I feel I'm missing something, here.
1. To understand the BIP, you need a sense of clarity in understanding what constitutes a bar or restraint in thinking.
2. The occult has no physical effect.  Belief in the occult is a different matter.
3. How do we, or why should we, differentiate between the occult and other strains of religion?  Barring an exceptionally rich and diverse mix of symbols, there is little difference I can see.
4. How do we understand the mechanisms by which belief can either be liberationary or reactionary?
Easy.  You want to understand religion and it's effects?  Great.  Study monkeys at worship.  Don't pretend their rituals have any more power or effect - or have any more structure - than any other ritual (which is to say, they fool only their own adherents, and have NO effect on the rest of the world, other than as expressed by their adherents).
Actually, I'm pretty interested in why sometimes passive-aggressive religions (like Christianity) can create something like Liberation Theology.  Or like I mentioned with Dr Howl, how Taoism, with its conception of wu-wei, could produce agarian resistance to Chinese central control.
If we could understand how that works, then perhaps all of this recent discussion could have a use.
And that's just great.  But trying to figure out the "underlying process" behind speaking in tongues isn't going to help gain an understanding.  THAT is what I am saying.
Link to us talking about speaking in tounges, or STFU.
Quote from: LMNO on February 21, 2007, 02:53:10 PM
3.  By "differentiate", do you mean to give weight or validity to one tradition over another?
Look, it all comes down to this:  ALL religions are the SAME FUCKING THING.  They just apply a different name to the entity that is responsible for everything they can't or won't understand.  That's it.  That's the only fucking difference between Christianity, Islam, Bhuddism, and the other silly fucking assholes celebrating equinox or whatever the hell it is they get all dressed up (or down) for.
You don't need to waste your time figuring out each religion's little gimmicks.  The whole fucking thing is a gimmick, and the tricks that work on one religion work on them ALL, and all you have to do is change the labels.
And if you need to spend months "diagramming" it, you're already fucked before you start.
EDIT: Never mind. Forget I said anything.
Quote from: LMNO on February 21, 2007, 02:57:46 PM
Link to us talking about speaking in tounges, or STFU.
I was using that as an example, inre: "divination".
But okay. I'll STFU. You can go back to spending weeks diagramming shit that doesn't exist. :lulz: It's a good thing BIP is really going places.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 21, 2007, 02:58:07 PM
Quote from: LMNO on February 21, 2007, 02:53:10 PM
3. By "differentiate", do you mean to give weight or validity to one tradition over another?
Look, it all comes down to this: ALL religions are the SAME FUCKING THING. They just apply a different name to the entity that is responsible for everything they can't or won't understand. That's it. That's the only fucking difference between Christianity, Islam, Bhuddism, and the other silly fucking assholes celebrating equinox or whatever the hell it is they get all dressed up (or down) for.
You don't need to waste your time figuring out each religion's little gimmicks. The whole fucking thing is a gimmick, and the tricks that work on one religion work on them ALL, and all you have to do is change the labels.
And if you need to spend months "diagramming" it, you're already fucked before you start.
you shouldve led off with that
the diagrams are all visuals of the BIP
not any religion or other system
it seems you misread things
Quote from: LHX on February 21, 2007, 03:00:39 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 21, 2007, 02:58:07 PM
Quote from: LMNO on February 21, 2007, 02:53:10 PM
3.  By "differentiate", do you mean to give weight or validity to one tradition over another?
Look, it all comes down to this:  ALL religions are the SAME FUCKING THING.  They just apply a different name to the entity that is responsible for everything they can't or won't understand.  That's it.  That's the only fucking difference between Christianity, Islam, Bhuddism, and the other silly fucking assholes celebrating equinox or whatever the hell it is they get all dressed up (or down) for.
You don't need to waste your time figuring out each religion's little gimmicks.  The whole fucking thing is a gimmick, and the tricks that work on one religion work on them ALL, and all you have to do is change the labels.
And if you need to spend months "diagramming" it, you're already fucked before you start.
you shouldve led off with that
the diagrams are all visuals of the BIP
not any religion or other system
it seems you misread things
Piss off. Please return to talking about the underlying mechanics of phrenology, or whatever the hell it was you were discussing.
TGRR,
Is now STFUing. Later.
and if you spoke soft you coulda still preserved the friendship
Quote from: LHX on February 21, 2007, 03:04:21 PM
and if you spoke soft you coulda still preserved the friendship
That's how seriously you take all this? If so, then we weren't actually friends to begin with, were we?
Fuck off and die.
Oh, Christ.
Can't we all just recognize that 99.9% of the posters here don't believe in madgjeeek, and were just talking things through, for the potential of new ideas or ways of expressing the BIP?
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 21, 2007, 03:07:38 PM
Quote from: LHX on February 21, 2007, 03:04:21 PM
and if you spoke soft you coulda still preserved the friendship
That's how seriously you take all this? If so, then we weren't actually friends to begin with, were we?
Fuck off and die.
im kidding man
i still love you like youre my online dad
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 21, 2007, 02:44:10 PM
Easy. You want to understand religion and it's effects? Great. Study monkeys at worship. Don't pretend their rituals have any more power or effect - or have any more structure - than any other ritual (which is to say, they fool only their own adherents, and have NO effect on the rest of the world, other than as expressed by their adherents).
If you want to have an effect on your consciousness apply ritual. It's psychosomatic. That means it
does have an effect on your mind. If you analyse that effect and find a way of refining it and creating repeatable conditions you have an occult system. The difference between this and religious bullshit is serious occultists know it's psychosomatic. That's an argument against believing in bullshit but it's an equally compelling argument for exploration of effects.
The occult is a system of mental tweaks and programming that fine tunes your brain. Just like in any walk of life 99% of the practitioners are fuckheads who don't get it. So they give it a bad name. The "all the people who do 'X' are idiots" argument never really held much sway for me. Almost all the people on this fucking planet will only be any use as fertiliser. Doesn't make me wanna give up being a human.
The average human mind is a pathetic, cobbled together, self defining algorithm that was developed by hit and miss evolution. I wanna improve mine by design and I'll try anything that looks like it's might help.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 21, 2007, 02:36:11 PM
More along the lines of:  "Be free.  If anyone tries to stop you, kick them in the Jimmy."
You gotta a lot of kicking to do
Free? LOL That's the punchline right there. Dude who's accusing me of irrational beliefs still buys into that free bullshit.
:lulz:
Quote from: LMNO on February 21, 2007, 03:11:41 PM
Oh, Christ.
Can't we all just recognize that 99.9% of the posters here don't believe in madgjeeek, and were just talking things through, for the potential of new ideas or ways of expressing the BIP?
Um...
Quote from: SillyCybin on February 21, 2007, 03:23:28 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 21, 2007, 02:44:10 PM
Easy. You want to understand religion and it's effects? Great. Study monkeys at worship. Don't pretend their rituals have any more power or effect - or have any more structure - than any other ritual (which is to say, they fool only their own adherents, and have NO effect on the rest of the world, other than as expressed by their adherents).
If you want to have an effect on your consciousness apply ritual. It's psychosomatic. That means it does have an effect on your mind. If you analyse that effect and find a way of refining it and creating repeatable conditions you have an occult system. The difference between this and religious bullshit is serious occultists know it's psychosomatic. That's an argument against believing in bullshit but it's an equally compelling argument for exploration of effects.
The occult is a system of mental tweaks and programming that fine tunes your brain. Just like in any walk of life 99% of the practitioners are fuckheads who don't get it. So they give it a bad name. The "all the people who do 'X' are idiots" argument never really held much sway for me. Almost all the people on this fucking planet will only be any use as fertiliser. Doesn't make me wanna give up being a human.
The average human mind is a pathetic, cobbled together, self defining algorithm that was developed by hit and miss evolution. I wanna improve mine by design and I'll try anything that looks like it's might help.
As "Bob" is my witness, I can't possibly think of anything to add to this situation that would make it funnier.
Quote from: SillyCybin on February 21, 2007, 03:46:19 PM
Free? LOL That's the punchline right there. Dude who's accusing me of irrational beliefs still buys into that free bullshit.
:lulz:
Shut it, slave.
Quote from: Thurnez Isa on February 21, 2007, 03:43:20 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 21, 2007, 02:36:11 PM
More along the lines of:  "Be free.  If anyone tries to stop you, kick them in the Jimmy."
You gotta a lot of kicking to do
Gives me something to do until I die. Or kill me.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 21, 2007, 04:17:37 PM
Quote from: LMNO on February 21, 2007, 03:11:41 PM
Oh, Christ.
Can't we all just recognize that 99.9% of the posters here don't believe in madgjeeek, and were just talking things through, for the potential of new ideas or ways of expressing the BIP?
Um...
Quote from: SillyCybin on February 21, 2007, 03:23:28 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 21, 2007, 02:44:10 PM
The average human mind is a pathetic, cobbled together, self defining algorithm that was developed by hit and miss evolution. I wanna improve mine by design and I'll try anything that looks like it's might help.
As "Bob" is my witness, I can't possibly think of anything to add to this situation that would make it funnier.
Do you mind not acting like a single person actually speaks for an entire group? It's a cheap win, especially when Discordians are involved
Quote from: LMNO on February 21, 2007, 04:22:18 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 21, 2007, 04:17:37 PM
Quote from: LMNO on February 21, 2007, 03:11:41 PM
Oh, Christ.
Can't we all just recognize that 99.9% of the posters here don't believe in madgjeeek, and were just talking things through, for the potential of new ideas or ways of expressing the BIP?
Um...
Quote from: SillyCybin on February 21, 2007, 03:23:28 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 21, 2007, 02:44:10 PM
The average human mind is a pathetic, cobbled together, self defining algorithm that was developed by hit and miss evolution. I wanna improve mine by design and I'll try anything that looks like it's might help.
As "Bob" is my witness, I can't possibly think of anything to add to this situation that would make it funnier.
Do you mind not acting like a single person actually speaks for an entire group?  It's a cheap win, especially when Discordians are involved
Cheap? Sure. But funny (the timing was
priceless).
And that's all I really ask for.
Best part is, the dumbfuck wants to change 2,000,000 years of evolution by retreating back to the last ice age or so, and playing with "rituals" that "psychosomatically" somehow "alter his brain" (by that standard, so would studying higher math, but that's
hard).
As if his "rituals" (take short break for laughter) were somehow better than a few million years of proven success.
Then he whimpers that he isn't free, so freedom must not exist. This is too goddamn funny.
Now, by your standards ("99.9%"), we have 1,000 active users. Betcha we have at least 3 more users on this board (from the actual 20 or so users) that have a head full of superstition.
Lastly, what the fuck use is all this talk about superstition? It isn't the "occult" crowd that fucks with your freedom, so why specialize in their particular brand of mummery? If you MUST dissect a
particular set of fantasies, why not target the ones that target you?
Oh, yeah. That's a hard target. They might be mean.
Point taken.
Holy crap, it seems I missed quite a bit.
To play the diplomat:
I think perhaps we need to take a step back and think about what we are doing here. I think it might be farfetched to think every single thread in this place is about "futhering BIP" to the outside world. So, inherently, there are going to be digressions and tangentials. This is the wall you throw the pasta at. Some of it sticks, some of it hits the floor and starts stinking. It's all good. As I've stated before, I don't get into the occult discussions all that much myself, but I can see where they are useful to others in the group, and I think that's fine. I avoid it. But, I think as long as we keep some level of groundation, keep a loose plan in mind of what we want to do with all this, it will work.
At least, we seem to have a good working relationship between the principles. And I also think the diagramming thing is useful. Words are great and can convey quite a bit but sometimes you need a visual now and again so certain parts of your brain aren't left out.
We all have different things to offer. We all have different perspectives. Let's just work with what we know. If others have different ideas, lay em down. I think this is pretty much an open door, a community drawing board. Who says when you are having a barn raising that all of the walls have to be the same color?
Quote from: LMNO on February 21, 2007, 02:57:46 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 21, 2007, 02:48:19 PM
Quote from: Cain on February 21, 2007, 02:46:37 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 21, 2007, 02:44:10 PM
Quote from: Cain on February 21, 2007, 02:39:57 PM
Quote from: LMNO on February 21, 2007, 02:23:09 PM
What's the best way to deal with the Black Iron Prison?
I feel I'm missing something, here.
1. To understand the BIP, you need a sense of clarity in understanding what constitutes a bar or restraint in thinking.
2. The occult has no physical effect. Belief in the occult is a different matter.
3. How do we, or why should we, differentiate between the occult and other strains of religion? Barring an exceptionally rich and diverse mix of symbols, there is little difference I can see.
4. How do we understand the mechanisms by which belief can either be liberationary or reactionary?
Easy. You want to understand religion and it's effects? Great. Study monkeys at worship. Don't pretend their rituals have any more power or effect - or have any more structure - than any other ritual (which is to say, they fool only their own adherents, and have NO effect on the rest of the world, other than as expressed by their adherents).
Actually, I'm pretty interested in why sometimes passive-aggressive religions (like Christianity) can create something like Liberation Theology. Or like I mentioned with Dr Howl, how Taoism, with its conception of wu-wei, could produce agarian resistance to Chinese central control.
If we could understand how that works, then perhaps all of this recent discussion could have a use.
And that's just great. But trying to figure out the "underlying process" behind speaking in tongues isn't going to help gain an understanding. THAT is what I am saying.
Link to us talking about speaking in tounges, or STFU.
Andrew Newberg, MD, Associate Professor of Radiology, Psychiatry, and Religious Studies says, "Our finding of decreased activity in the frontal lobes during the practice of speaking in tongues is fascinating because these subjects truly believe that the spirit of [Gawd] is moving through them and controlling them to speak. Our brain imaging research shows us that these subjects are not in control of the usual language centers during this activity, which is consistent with their description of a lack of intentional control while speaking in tongues."
http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/news/News_Releases/oct06/glossolalia_print.htm
By diminishing their rational capacity in a flurry of retardation, they get closer to Gawd.
Case closed.
I think I agree with roger that we should get away from studying the symbols and objects, and move towards an overall study of what makes people believe things, buy into religion, put faith in things they can't sense or rationalize, how brainwashing works, how to remove that brainwashing, and so on.
I have to say, trying to defend some of this new age stuff is alot like trying to defend Wicca as an anchient religion for me. In other words, it really clashes as BS. And I feel quite stupid to think otherwise.
Quote from: Netaungrot on February 21, 2007, 10:50:31 PM
Andrew Newberg, MD, Associate Professor of Radiology, Psychiatry, and Religious Studies says, "Our finding of decreased activity in the frontal lobes during the practice of speaking in tongues is fascinating because these subjects truly believe that the spirit of [Gawd] is moving through them and controlling them to speak.  Our brain imaging research shows us that these subjects are not in control of the usual language centers during this activity, which is consistent with their description of a lack of intentional control while speaking in tongues."
http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/news/News_Releases/oct06/glossolalia_print.htm
By diminishing their rational capacity in a flurry of retardation, they get closer to  Gawd.
Case closed.
And thats the kind of research Im talking about.
Quote from: Buddhist_Monk_Wannabe on February 21, 2007, 10:55:46 PM
I think I agree with roger that we should get away from studying the symbols and objects, and move towards an overall study of what makes people believe things, buy into religion, put faith in things they can't sense or rationalize, how brainwashing works, how to remove that brainwashing, and so on.
I have to say, trying to defend some of this new age stuff is alot like trying to defend Wicca as an anchient religion for me. In other words, it really clashes as BS. And I feel quite stupid to think otherwise.
IAWTC
Quote from: Buddhist_Monk_Wannabe on February 21, 2007, 10:56:49 PM
Quote from: Netaungrot on February 21, 2007, 10:50:31 PM
Andrew Newberg, MD, Associate Professor of Radiology, Psychiatry, and Religious Studies says, "Our finding of decreased activity in the frontal lobes during the practice of speaking in tongues is fascinating because these subjects truly believe that the spirit of [Gawd] is moving through them and controlling them to speak. Our brain imaging research shows us that these subjects are not in control of the usual language centers during this activity, which is consistent with their description of a lack of intentional control while speaking in tongues."
http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/news/News_Releases/oct06/glossolalia_print.htm
By diminishing their rational capacity in a flurry of retardation, they get closer to Gawd.
Case closed.
And thats the kind of research Im talking about.
Sounds a lot like mantra yoga. If you sell it as get closer to bloke with beard then that's what they'll buy.
Secret of how religion works
1) blow their minds empty then fill the space with gobshite.
2) Experience is so profound that they will never stop dribbling about it.
3) Send them out to dribble at people who might listen (carefully selected from a demographic profile or by spamming)
4) Count the cash
Nothing complicated. Spot of elementary school trance induction and you're good to go.
I'd love to see BIP turned into a religion - Separation of idiots from cash is highest form of alchemy. Of course you yanks don't get irony do ya?
http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/news/News_Releases/oct06/glossolalia_print.htm
"These findings could be interpreted as the subject,Äôs sense of self being taken over by something else. We, scientifically, assume it,Äôs being taken over by another part of the brain, but we couldn,Äôt see, in this imaging study, where this took place."
If they lined the CAT with quartz they'd know.
Quote from: SillyCybin on February 21, 2007, 11:11:49 PM
Quote from: Buddhist_Monk_Wannabe on February 21, 2007, 10:56:49 PM
Quote from: Netaungrot on February 21, 2007, 10:50:31 PM
Andrew Newberg, MD, Associate Professor of Radiology, Psychiatry, and Religious Studies says, "Our finding of decreased activity in the frontal lobes during the practice of speaking in tongues is fascinating because these subjects truly believe that the spirit of [Gawd] is moving through them and controlling them to speak.  Our brain imaging research shows us that these subjects are not in control of the usual language centers during this activity, which is consistent with their description of a lack of intentional control while speaking in tongues."
http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/news/News_Releases/oct06/glossolalia_print.htm
By diminishing their rational capacity in a flurry of retardation, they get closer to  Gawd.
Case closed.
And thats the kind of research Im talking about.
Sounds a lot like mantra yoga. If you sell it as get closer to bloke with beard then that's what they'll buy.
Secret of how religion works
1) blow their minds empty then fill the space with gobshite.
2) Experience is so profound that they will never stop dribbling about it.
3) Send them out to dribble at people who might listen (carefully selected from a demographic profile or by spamming)
4) Count the cash
Nothing complicated. Spot of elementary school trance induction and you're good to go.
I'd love to see BIP turned into a religion - Separation of idiots from cash is highest form of alchemy. Of course you yanks don't get irony do ya?
Sounds like another CotSB.
sweet mother of fuck
Quote from: Buddhist_Monk_Wannabe on February 21, 2007, 10:55:46 PM
I think I agree with roger that we should get away from studying the symbols and objects, and move towards an overall study of what makes people believe things, buy into religion, put faith in things they can't sense or rationalize, how brainwashing works, how to remove that brainwashing, and so on.
I have to say, trying to defend some of this new age stuff is alot like trying to defend Wicca as an anchient religion for me. In other words, it really clashes as BS. And I feel quite stupid to think otherwise.
how is this any different than what was going on in the first place?
i must be reading a different forum
or im a idiot and cant keep in mind the fact that people read into things whatever they want to read into things
i have no idea how there is any sort of revelation being had here
in other words, we should continue doing what we are doing, but not
?
yeah all aboard
Quote from: Netaungrot on February 21, 2007, 10:50:31 PM
Andrew Newberg, MD, Associate Professor of Radiology, Psychiatry, and Religious Studies says, "Our finding of decreased activity in the frontal lobes during the practice of speaking in tongues is fascinating because these subjects truly believe that the spirit of [Gawd] is moving through them and controlling them to speak. Our brain imaging research shows us that these subjects are not in control of the usual language centers during this activity, which is consistent with their description of a lack of intentional control while speaking in tongues."
http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/news/News_Releases/oct06/glossolalia_print.htm
By diminishing their rational capacity in a flurry of retardation, they get closer to Gawd.
Case closed.
so god is a flurry of retardation
kind of suggests everybody should go out and buy gematria chakra balancing for beginners
can i get my birthstone under my avatar?
Quote from: LHX on February 22, 2007, 02:14:20 AM
Quote from: Netaungrot on February 21, 2007, 10:50:31 PM
Andrew Newberg, MD, Associate Professor of Radiology, Psychiatry, and Religious Studies says, "Our finding of decreased activity in the frontal lobes during the practice of speaking in tongues is fascinating because these subjects truly believe that the spirit of [Gawd] is moving through them and controlling them to speak. Our brain imaging research shows us that these subjects are not in control of the usual language centers during this activity, which is consistent with their description of a lack of intentional control while speaking in tongues."
http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/news/News_Releases/oct06/glossolalia_print.htm
By diminishing their rational capacity in a flurry of retardation, they get closer to Gawd.
Case closed.
so god is a flurry of retardation
kind of suggests everybody should go out and buy gematria chakra balancing for beginners
can i get my birthstone under my avatar?
Glossolalia = iconic of religion.
You gotta check out how these scientists think about symbols:
http://mike.teczno.com/img/2006-12-16/Jankun-Kelly-2006-ItS.pdf
Rigorous bastards think it's softer than psychology.
Quote from: LHX on February 22, 2007, 02:10:23 AMor im a idiot and cant keep in mind the fact that people read into things whatever they want to read into things
well, they are
free to do so, of course
Quotei have no idea how there is any sort of revelation being had here
in other words, we should continue doing what we are doing, but not
?
yeah all aboard
:) yes.
you know somehow it makes sense, i'm serious, maybe i'll get it straight this time:
at first we were studying these symbols and objects. i was under the impression that me, silly, lmno, lhx and some others were, afaik, in fact doing this as part of "an overall study of what makes people believe things, buy into religion, put faith in things they can't sense or rationalize [...]", but our motives were questioned. if this was the case or not is opening up the whole can of worms again, probably both parties were right in some way, let's step past that (please).
ok, now in order to perform "an overall study of what makes people believe things, buy into religion, put faith in things they can't sense or rationalize [...]",
i think we need symbols. otherwise we can't work with the stuff. same as you need symbols for math, even for proving the simple things like 2+3=5.
now we can use the old symbols for this, but i think for the sake of not getting drawn into this again, maybe it's better to create some new ones (and yes, i was under the impression that we were already doing this).
maybe we should view this episode a bit as Odysseus and the sirens, he had to find out what they were about, but in order to not get caught away in it, they had to tie him down to the ship. apparently Roger is taking the role of the rope. (and not exactly a silk rope :) )
Or maybe i still don't get it.
Quote from: LHX on February 22, 2007, 02:10:23 AM
sweet mother of fuck
Quote from: Buddhist_Monk_Wannabe on February 21, 2007, 10:55:46 PM
I think I agree with roger that we should get away from studying the symbols and objects, and move towards an overall study of what makes people believe things, buy into religion, put faith in things they can't sense or rationalize, how brainwashing works, how to remove that brainwashing, and so on.
I have to say, trying to defend some of this new age stuff is alot like trying to defend Wicca as an anchient religion for me. In other words, it really clashes as BS. And I feel quite stupid to think otherwise.
how is this any different than what was going on in the first place?
i must be reading a different forum
or im a idiot and cant keep in mind the fact that people read into things whatever they want to read into things
i have no idea how there is any sort of revelation being had here
in other words, we should continue doing what we are doing, but not
?
yeah all aboard
We can be just as stupid and devoid of content as you can.
So there.
Quote from: LHX on February 22, 2007, 02:10:23 AM
sweet mother of fuck
Quote from: Buddhist_Monk_Wannabe on February 21, 2007, 10:55:46 PM
I think I agree with roger that we should get away from studying the symbols and objects, and move towards an overall study of what makes people believe things, buy into religion, put faith in things they can't sense or rationalize, how brainwashing works, how to remove that brainwashing, and so on.
I have to say, trying to defend some of this new age stuff is alot like trying to defend Wicca as an anchient religion for me. In other words, it really clashes as BS. And I feel quite stupid to think otherwise.
how is this any different than what was going on in the first place?
i must be reading a different forum
or im a idiot and cant keep in mind the fact that people read into things whatever they want to read into things
i have no idea how there is any sort of revelation being had here
in other words, we should continue doing what we are doing, but not
?
yeah all aboard
In other words, I have been getting a little tired of all these "occult" threads as well. Studies of symbols are all well and good, but I think that if we want to get our message out, we want to study the symbols of the general culture around us, and not those of a select few. For example, christian iconography and worship is everywhere in the states. Wouldn't it make more sense to study that religion's influence on mind than say, Taoism, simply because the cultural data is local and abundant? Not to mention that if you are going to connect to a general member of the populace here, more likely than not they are going to have some sort of Christian influence.
Those are my reasons. At heart I know half of religion is BS, half is placebo, and .00001% is truth. So, lets try to get past the bullshit, understand the placebo and find the truth.
Quote from: Buddhist_Monk_Wannabe on February 22, 2007, 07:46:37 PM
For example, christian iconography and worship is everywhere in the states. Wouldn't it make more sense to study their influence on mind than say, Taoism, simply because the cultural data is local and abundant? Not to mention that if you are going to connect to a general member of the populace here, more likely than not they are going to have some sort of Christian influence.
If you have questions about Christian symbolism don't hesitate to ask
not now
i have to go work, ill be running out the door in 30 seconds
but i keep tabs on them, including all the different factions, even some of the lesser known ones
you have to understand how these people think
cause what they believe ACTUALLY has an influence on all our lifes - at least in western culture...if we had more middle eastern members, and eastern members then muslims and hindus, ect.
well im late for work yet again...
lets see if they even notice anymore
:D
Quote from: Thurnez Isa on February 22, 2007, 07:52:29 PM
Quote from: Buddhist_Monk_Wannabe on February 22, 2007, 07:46:37 PM
For example, christian iconography and worship is everywhere in the states. Wouldn't it make more sense to study their influence on mind than say, Taoism, simply because the cultural data is local and abundant? Not to mention that if you are going to connect to a general member of the populace here, more likely than not they are going to have some sort of Christian influence.
If you have questions about Christian symbolism don't hesitate to ask
not now
i have to go work, ill be running out the door in 30 seconds
but i keep tabs on them, including all the different factions, even some of the lesser known ones
you have to understand how these people think
because what they believe ACTUALLY has an influence on all our lifes - at least in western culture...if we had more middle eastern members, and eastern members then muslims and hindus, ect.
well im late for work yet again...
lets see if they even notice anymore
:D
Thats the stuff right there.
Quote from: Buddhist_Monk_Wannabe on February 22, 2007, 07:46:37 PM
Quote from: LHX on February 22, 2007, 02:10:23 AM
sweet mother of fuck
Quote from: Buddhist_Monk_Wannabe on February 21, 2007, 10:55:46 PM
I think I agree with roger that we should get away from studying the symbols and objects, and move towards an overall study of what makes people believe things, buy into religion, put faith in things they can't sense or rationalize, how brainwashing works, how to remove that brainwashing, and so on.
I have to say, trying to defend some of this new age stuff is alot like trying to defend Wicca as an anchient religion for me. In other words, it really clashes as BS. And I feel quite stupid to think otherwise.
how is this any different than what was going on in the first place?
i must be reading a different forum
or im a idiot and cant keep in mind the fact that people read into things whatever they want to read into things
i have no idea how there is any sort of revelation being had here
in other words, we should continue doing what we are doing, but not
?
yeah all aboard
In other words, I have been getting a little tired of all these "occult" threads as well. Studies of symbols are all well and good, but I think that if we want to get our message out, we want to study the symbols of the general culture around us, and not those of a select few. For example, christian iconography and worship is everywhere in the states. Wouldn't it make more sense to study that religion's influence on mind than say, Taoism, simply because the cultural data is local and abundant? Not to mention that if you are going to connect to a general member of the populace here, more likely than not they are going to have some sort of Christian influence.
Those are my reasons. At heart I know half of religion is BS, half is placebo, and .00001% is truth. So, lets try to get past the bullshit, understand the placebo and find the truth.
I don't want to stir this clusterfuck up any more but I do want to say that the stuff we were talking about IS how christianity works, same symbols, same interface to the mind. Christians are programmed using one program written in a programming language.
I'll leave it at that.
Quote from: SillyCybin on February 22, 2007, 10:28:06 PM
I don't want to stir this clusterfuck up any more but I do want to say that the stuff we were talking about IS how christianity works, same symbols, same interface to the mind. Christians are programmed using one program written in a programming language.
I'll leave it at that.
you said it
besides
christianity as it is now is the most grafted and tampered with
and in the process it has become the least practical
maybe thats why these discussions leave such a bitter taste in peoples mouths
personally, i had little to no direct religious influence in my upbringing aside from the prayer they used to do in the mornings at school
Quote from: LHX on February 22, 2007, 10:36:20 PM
Quote from: SillyCybin on February 22, 2007, 10:28:06 PM
I don't want to stir this clusterfuck up any more but I do want to say that the stuff we were talking about IS how christianity works, same symbols, same interface to the mind. Christians are programmed using one program written in a programming language.
I'll leave it at that.
you said it
besides
christianity as it is now is the most grafted and tampered with
and in the process it has become the most practical
maybe thats why these discussions leave such a bitter taste in peoples mouths
personally, i had little to no direct religious influence in my upbringing aside from the prayer they used to do in the mornings at school
Fixxed - Just ask the pope's accountant
may I remind you that if it wasnt for the monastery system what little enlightenment which occured during the middle ages wouldn't have taken place in the west
they were the ones who studied nature, wrote books, started hospitals... in fact in a strange way they were the first modern western scientists
the Jesuits even today are very well respected in the science world for their work on astronomy and currently run one of the largest telescopes situated in the Vadican
right now they're losing a lot of what little influence they had in the church to the Offices Of the Holy Orders
their ideas of being a complete spiritual being only after being a rational one is an idea that I think could do wonders in the Roman Catholic church
also
down in the states we have a wonderful opportunity
we have a generation now coming up that were not "saved"
but in fact grew up in the borne again homesteads and have been in all definition brainwashed
we have a slight window here to show them that not only is there another way of living and thinking , but at the least they dont have to completely accept what they were told but should go on their own spiritual journey (even if its a Christian one) but one that is their own and involves their own thinking
ps - sorry about the spelling errors
typing fast
eggs burning
TI, maybe i missed your point about this, but ok, so the monasteries in the middle ages contained the scholars and relatively smart people of those times (despite that they spent most of their time writing about christianity and praying? or is that a misconception of mine?)
anyway, they were really smart for the time, but in the mean time, centuries, christianity has turned from the intellectual elite to a religion for the intellectual midgets (see the god-warrior woman as an example).
so, unless you think it's partly up to us, to bring the "smart" back into christianity i don't quite see what is your point?
also (not to TI specifically), if you all are now going to discuss christian symbology instead, don't expect too much input from me. around here i know hardly anybody who actually believes in that shit, and the ones that do, aren't really the ones that need their minds fucked nearly as much as the others who don't. because it seems, as they are often challenged, those people have actually given their worldview and morality some actual thought, "thought for themselves", in a certain way (ok why they came to christianity as a conclusion is another story).
my conclusion? you don't need religion for stupidity.
the thing we're after is why there are people who don't think for themselves.
those are the ones that simply don't give their worldview EVER a second thought. so they stick just with what is the status quo, whether it's christian, muslim or atheist.
in that case, even the wiccan kids are a tiny step further than that, or at least, they might have started out promising by saying "i don't want this, i'll go look for something else", but then unfortunately stuck with the first shiny black+pink ridiculous thing they saw on MTV (they get that shit from MTV right?)
For some reason the will of many (most?) people is to rest their mind. Thinking is so much hard work and if it can be avoided it will. Especially questioning the enviroment and order one finds ones self existing within. So they dont think. They will hate anyone who trys to fuck with that. Denial may seem like a cop out to us but it takes real dogged determination and these guys are experts.
This is called inertia and is the vice of this planet.
i was just thinking, what if there was an environment where you simply get screwed over if you rest your mind.
then i remember this is pretty much already the case.
determined little fuckers.
Quote from: triple zero on February 23, 2007, 09:08:54 AM
i was just thinking, what if there was an environment where you simply get screwed over if you rest your mind.
then i remember this is pretty much already the case.
determined little fuckers.
They don't see it as screwed over. They see it as getting their nappy changed. Most babies bitch and whine about being weaned. Leaving the comfort of mommys tit aint an attractive notion.
nah i meant it more along the lines of
"oh if i don't stop and start thinking for myself, i won't get this and this?
but i do get to lay my mind at rest anyways?
.. oh well..."
it's kind of both things at the same time. bit yes, the comfort thing is important.
i read an article once, that spoke about "addiction to comfort".
comfort isn't really enjoyable. you need the highs and the lows to really enjoy stuff. but comfort is addictive.
ah there it is, google comfort+addiction: at kuro5hin, Are you a comfort addict? (http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2004/11/17/17417/455)
Quote from: triple zero on February 23, 2007, 08:35:14 AM
my conclusion? you don't need religion for stupidity.
Absolute truth.
Quotethe thing we're after is why there are people who don't think for themselves.
those are the ones that simply don't give their worldview EVER a second thought. so they stick just with what is the status quo, whether it's christian, muslim or atheist.
Problem is, some who
we deem not thinking for themselves believe in fact that they
are thinking for themselves. Some would share a view that secularism is a movement for sheep, lost sheep mind you, but sheep nonetheless. They look for answers in a book and in a God. Secularists look for answers through books and microscopes.
I think this is a fundamental dichotomy that makes it all so difficult. How do we know that
our assessment of
them is right?
Yeah, I'm on another forum grilling a xtian who is saying you can't trust everyone who preaches from the bible.
My question is, how can we tell the difference, and how can we be sure he isn't a false prophet?
My Philip k Dick paranoia is coming in very handy.
Well, we know what you are going to be doing for the next hour or so, though I suppose it depends on his resilience.
Oh, I've been doing this for weeks. It's pretty much the only thread I post on over there.
I had one of those over at MySpace but the threads get buried so fast over there. This fundy chick posed the question if one could envision a "more perfect world." than what we had right now. I gave the simple example of a world without marginalization. Took me all damned day to explain to her what that meant.
Why bother? With faithfools there really is no fucking point. At least beating your head off a brick wall there's a chance you'll get through eventually.
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on February 23, 2007, 02:35:46 PM
I had one of those over at MySpace but the threads get buried so fast over there. This fundy chick posed the question if one could envision a "more perfect world." than what we had right now. I gave the simple example of a world without marginalization. Took me all damned day to explain to her what that meant.
Yeah, I remember that. I was going to run
Candide for some cutting remarks, but got distracted.
Quote from: SillyCybin on February 23, 2007, 02:41:48 PM
Why bother? With faithfools there really is no fucking point. At least beating your head off a brick wall there's a chance you'll get through eventually.
The point isn't for the person you're talking to, it's for everyone who's listening.
Going head-to-head against a fundie won't convince the fundie, but it may change the view of those watching the fight.
Bingo! K - a little light just went on in my stupid fucking brain. Nothing to see here. Move along now.
i second silly's light bulb.
Quote from: LMNO on February 23, 2007, 02:48:02 PM
Quote from: SillyCybin on February 23, 2007, 02:41:48 PM
Why bother? With faithfools there really is no fucking point. At least beating your head off a brick wall there's a chance you'll get through eventually.
The point isn't for the person you're talking to, it's for everyone who's listening.
Going head-to-head against a fundie won't convince the fundie, but it may change the view of those watching the fight.
yup, and you might help those others arguing with the fundie to find different ways to argue with them. Because, at least on MySpace anyway the argument basically consists of:
Fundy: "God is Love. God is Everything"
non-fundy: "You are wrong because I think you suck."
Boring.
Suddenly, the reason to study the Bible becomes fairly obvious...
Know thy enemy. Or at least, know thy person with a belief system different from yours.
expecially when the enemies are in control
Quote from: LMNO on February 23, 2007, 02:23:48 PMMy Philip k Dick paranoia is coming in very handy.
I find staying as paranoid as Phil painful in my melon. Got a cure for that (besides being less paranoid, 'cos that could be dangerous)?
Coffee and lots of it.
Substance D.
Opal.
Special K
Snarky comments on internet forums.
Bad puns to make you forget the other pain.
Quote from: LMNO on February 23, 2007, 02:48:02 PM
Quote from: SillyCybin on February 23, 2007, 02:41:48 PM
Why bother? With faithfools there really is no fucking point. At least beating your head off a brick wall there's a chance you'll get through eventually.
The point isn't for the person you're talking to, it's for everyone who's listening.
Going head-to-head against a fundie won't convince the fundie, but it may change the view of those watching the fight.
And it's FUN. Fundies are HILARIOUS.
Yeah, cant forget to bring your LULZ bucket.
Quote from: LMNO on February 23, 2007, 04:05:35 PM
Yeah, cant forget to bring your LULZ bucket.
My latest schtick is to pretend to be one of them. You can have NO end of yuks.
Especially when they think the local cop is on their side.
Youse a bad panda.
Quote from: LMNO on February 23, 2007, 04:08:22 PM
Youse a bad panda.
I know. And I inspire others to do bad things.
But mostly I deal with domestic disturbances, as the same 3 guys play "smack my bitch up" twice a week.
But Papa has the cure for that.
Quote from: LMNO on February 23, 2007, 02:48:02 PMGoing head-to-head against a fundie won't convince the fundie, but it may change the view of those watching the fight.
ugh. i really hate it when i'm watching an argument and suddenly i see one of the parties doing that -- arguing for the sake of the audience, and continuing to do so after it's obvious one (or more) of the parties is never going to be convinced, nor learn anything more, and the discussion is basically at a dead end standstill, but still they keep firing their stock arguments at eachother ..
happens at every fundy/creationist versus atheist/scientist argument, and it GOES NOWHERE.
and both sides think it's "worth it" to continue reiterating the same points over and over, for "the few in the audience that just might change their mind", only bringing the deadlock to a higher level.
it really annoys the hell out of me, because it usually means that both parties have started throwing with arguments that in fact go over their heads, or discussing something they don't know enough about. basically it means they should stop talking, because if they are going to convince anybody "in the audience" that audience member may have a new opinion but will not be able to articulate it or argumentate it in a discussion, except by regurgitating the exact same arguments he or she might have remembered from this fight, and so the circle starts over again.
end result: people have switched opinions (for "better" or for "worse"), but nobody really started thinking about anything.
Quote from: triple zero on February 23, 2007, 06:20:32 PM
Quote from: LMNO on February 23, 2007, 02:48:02 PMGoing head-to-head against a fundie won't convince the fundie, but it may change the view of those watching the fight.
ugh. i really hate it when i'm watching an argument and suddenly i see one of the parties doing that -- arguing for the sake of the audience, and continuing to do so after it's obvious one (or more) of the parties is never going to be convinced, nor learn anything more, and the discussion is basically at a dead end standstill, but still they keep firing their stock arguments at eachother ..
happens at every fundy/creationist versus atheist/scientist argument, and it GOES NOWHERE.
and both sides think it's "worth it" to continue reiterating the same points over and over, for "the few in the audience that just might change their mind", only bringing the deadlock to a higher level.
it really annoys the hell out of me, because it usually means that both parties have started throwing with arguments that in fact go over their heads, or discussing something they don't know enough about. basically it means they should stop talking, because if they are going to convince anybody "in the audience" that audience member may have a new opinion but will not be able to articulate it or argumentate it in a discussion, except by regurgitating the exact same arguments he or she might have remembered from this fight, and so the circle starts over again.
end result: people have switched opinions (for "better" or for "worse"), but nobody really started thinking about anything.
Since when is having atwo groups of dumbshits stalemate a BAD thing?
Who said anything about "stock arguments"?
I pride myself on always trying something new, be it a reflection of the opponents words, an absurdist take, or ad hominem attacks.
Believe me, you will never see 2 identical xtian arguments from me.
Why?
Because I, for some bizarre reason, have actually read the bible, and am facinated at the scholorship. Some people get drawn into Ulysses, some LARP. I'm into biblical studies.
Oh, fuck. Someone shoot me.
TGGR: because sometimes one of the dumbshit parties actually is trying to defend a position that i agree with.
then i'm all like "UNNNNN hit him what THIS argument! DO IT!!"
and then he doesn't. cause he's a dumbshit.
agreed, if both parties hold some polarised points of view where the idea that i happen to agree with obviously lies in the middle, let them have at it all they want :) it might even be fun to watch.
might need a beer for that, though.
LMNO: sorry i didn't want to imply you did this. in fact now that you mention it, you are right i have never seen two identical arguments from you. also i'm glad you seem to use ad hominem only as a last resort (the very last trick in schopenhauer's book, for a reason)
also the most fun, if you're a bastard.
LMNO
-bastard at times.
Quote from: triple zero on February 23, 2007, 06:50:56 PM
TGGR: because sometimes one of the dumbshit parties actually is trying to defend a position that i agree with.
They're still dumbshits.
That's all you need to know.
It gets really fucking annoying when they stop debating you and decide they are going to save you.
RWHN,
Wants the last 30 minutes of his life back.
NOOO! That's when they're open! You can falsely bond with them!
Gah! You're missing an opportunity to infect the host!
LMNO
- actually learned a thing or two from his Scientologist brother.
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on February 23, 2007, 07:10:07 PM
It gets really fucking annoying when they stop debating you and decide they are going to save you.
RWHN,
Wants the last 30 minutes of his life back. 
Punch them in the face.
Quote from: LMNO on February 23, 2007, 07:11:28 PM
NOOO!  That's when they're open!  You can falsely bond with them!
Gah!  You're missing an opportunity to infect the host!
LMNO
- actually learned a thing or two from his Scientologist brother.
Sorry, any type of "bonding" on MySpace would feel just plain icky.  
TONIGHT ON NBC: TO CATCH A BLASPHEMER.
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? link=topic=11672.msg363883#msg363883
Sorry, any type of "posting" on MySpace would feel just plain icky.  
quote]
Fix.
Edit: Break.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 23, 2007, 07:08:50 PMQuote from: triple zero on February 23, 2007, 06:50:56 PMTGGR: because sometimes one of the dumbshit parties actually is trying to defend a position that i agree with.
They're still dumbshits.
That's all you need to know.
you mean because they ended up in a stalemate?
or because they're arguing for the sake of the audience?
cuz in the last case you'd be calling LMNO a dumbshit, as i was initially replying to his post
Quote from: triple zero on February 23, 2007, 07:17:20 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 23, 2007, 07:08:50 PMQuote from: triple zero on February 23, 2007, 06:50:56 PMTGGR: because sometimes one of the dumbshit parties actually is trying to defend a position that i agree with.
They're still dumbshits.
That's all you need to know.
you mean because they ended up in a stalemate?
or because they're arguing for the sake of the audience?
cuz in the last case you'd be calling LMNO a dumbshit, as i was initially replying to his post
No, because they're dumbshits. If they weren't they'd be doing something better with their time.
Arguing with fundies is fun, because you can show them to be dumbshits. Quite easily too, since the Bible contradicts itself just about everywhere on every point. Having a copy of the Art of Eristic Debate open helps too, since that was made for public debating.
Quote from: Cain on February 23, 2007, 07:21:58 PM
Arguing with fundies is fun, because you can show them to be dumbshits.  Quite easily too, since the Bible contradicts itself just about everywhere on every point.  Having a copy of the Art of Eristic Debate open helps too, since that was made for public debating.
If you're just out to fuck with their heads, then I see no problem.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 23, 2007, 07:27:03 PM
Quote from: Cain on February 23, 2007, 07:21:58 PM
Arguing with fundies is fun, because you can show them to be dumbshits. Quite easily too, since the Bible contradicts itself just about everywhere on every point. Having a copy of the Art of Eristic Debate open helps too, since that was made for public debating.
If you're just out to fuck with their heads, then I see no problem.
Hang on. .. don't tell me there's another reason to argue?
Quote from: SillyCybin on February 23, 2007, 07:47:24 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 23, 2007, 07:27:03 PM
Quote from: Cain on February 23, 2007, 07:21:58 PM
Arguing with fundies is fun, because you can show them to be dumbshits.  Quite easily too, since the Bible contradicts itself just about everywhere on every point.  Having a copy of the Art of Eristic Debate open helps too, since that was made for public debating.
If you're just out to fuck with their heads, then I see no problem.
Hang on. .. don't tell me there's another reason to argue?
Something about "convincing" people.
Figured that was what doc martens were for. This verbal shit intrigues me.
In my experience, most people are not willing to entertain other views at all and no matter how compelling your verbal argument, you will only sway those who are already uncertain and uninvolved.
Quote from: Cain on February 23, 2007, 07:21:58 PM
Arguing with fundies is fun, because you can show them to be dumbshits.  Quite easily too, since the Bible contradicts itself just about everywhere on every point.  Having a copy of the Art of Eristic Debate open helps too, since that was made for public debating.
if your ever bored
found this place to unleash the inquisition
havent regestered yet
http://www.inthepursuitofgod.com/forum/index.php
Quote from: Thurnez Isa on February 23, 2007, 07:57:05 PM
Quote from: Cain on February 23, 2007, 07:21:58 PM
Arguing with fundies is fun, because you can show them to be dumbshits. Quite easily too, since the Bible contradicts itself just about everywhere on every point. Having a copy of the Art of Eristic Debate open helps too, since that was made for public debating.
if your ever bored
found this place to unleash the inquisition
havent regestered yet
http://www.inthepursuitofgod.com/forum/index.php
Holy shit that place is huge.
pretty active too
as far as public christian forums go
Quote from: Thurnez Isa on February 23, 2007, 07:58:53 PM
pretty active too
as far as public christian forums go
I'll fix THAT.
Just wanted to tell you that I'm spraying lailaise all over the office over the posts made in the forum over the last hour or so.
Keeping the cleaning crew busy ITT
Hehe, that's a good slogan.
PD.com: Job Security for Janitors.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 23, 2007, 08:00:06 PM
Quote from: Thurnez Isa on February 23, 2007, 07:58:53 PM
pretty active too
as far as public christian forums go
I'll fix THAT.
well im in...
might not start posting till this evening though
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on February 23, 2007, 08:08:54 PM
Hehe, that's a good slogan.
PD.com:  Job Security for Janitors. 
Oh, yeah.  I like that on several levels.
I dont know
im waiting on a phone call right now, and I just realized I have NO food right now
Im going to have to scavage for some money and probably end up going to the East Indian Restraunt nearby for a curry and a beer
dont wait on me... but I would say in about 3 or 4 hours
Oh, thats not too bad. I spent a little too much last week, so I'm staying tonight.
Quote from: Cain on February 23, 2007, 07:57:59 PM
Quote from: Thurnez Isa on February 23, 2007, 07:57:05 PM
Quote from: Cain on February 23, 2007, 07:21:58 PM
Arguing with fundies is fun, because you can show them to be dumbshits. Quite easily too, since the Bible contradicts itself just about everywhere on every point. Having a copy of the Art of Eristic Debate open helps too, since that was made for public debating.
if your ever bored
found this place to unleash the inquisition
havent regestered yet
http://www.inthepursuitofgod.com/forum/index.php
Holy shit that place is huge.
Has anyone started a thread about Richard Dawkins - The God Delusion there yet? :D
I just tested the waters so far
turned out last night I got a little busy
and waiting till more of us inquisitors find their way there
Well, I would sign up, but I have a massive troll operation lining up for HIMEOBS, one that will garner a certain amount of lulz.
More as I get the necessary info.
Ill sit and wait
gather info
im not one to jump the gun