Warning: Radical ideas ahead...
Sorry guys, I turned the TV on tonight.
I just watched a bit of Daily Show and was made privy to a developing story somewhere in the Mid-West. You see, a Muslim group out there is trying to build a mosque, school, and community center on a small piece of land in the middle of a white Christian neighboorhood. The whites there do not want this to happen. They site many reasons, including A. the land is too small for the project, B. they don't want to look at the golden dome, C. they don't want to hear the call to prayer every 3 hours. They stated it was not because they were Muslim, but it is simply a conflict of interest.
To protest they have been having pig races on the border of the proposed site. If you know Muslims, you know they aren't crazy about pigs.
As the story wore on, i was reminded of the gut wretching experience of seeing Borat. Funny? Yes. Disturbing? Goddess, Yes! As the movie progressed you could see the contempt that many Americans across the country have for, well, anyone not like them. The gays were the most discriminated against, and at one point a man basically suggested stuffing them in concentration camps.
Jon Stewart guest was John Amechi, a gay former-NBA player. We were all reminded by the comments made by Tim Hardaway (if you follow sports contraversy). His feelings were much like many: Kill those gays!
The thing that sticks out are not the big points, but the subtleties. I can hear "I don't want them in school with my boy," but what stands out to me is those eyes. Those evil hate-filled eyes. I can sympathize with not wanting a mosque near my home. They have loud prayer calls, traffic will increase, more people around. I know about these issues because I live down the street from a Catholic church. Loud bells, they take the parking, they block the streets. The difference is the eyes. I don't want a mosque because I don't want a bunch of people who follow a stupid religion cluttering my neighborhood. They don't want a mosque because they see Muslims as genuinely lesser people. Their sick, irrational hate oozes out of their eyes, and it sickens me.
It's not just TV and movies. I've been around the world, and i've seen those eyes all over. I'm a first hand witness. I've seen those eyes pointed at gays, and the blacks, and latinos, the muslims, asians. Those eyes have fixed on me, be it my poor looking clothing or my tattoos. My long hair or white skin. I've felt the eyes of disgust for being a "race traitor."
Here we have the basis for My War.
There are a number of varied political viewpoints here. We have advocates for Socailism, and we have Libertarians. We have Communist and Anarchist. I don't have much use for these titles. I used to wonder "what should the balance between freedom and equality be?" Would Libertarian freedom really set us free? Is a Marxist society a Utopia?
Short answer: I have no idea.
What I do know though, is that lynching a man because he likes dick is wrong. Evil. I've always felt morality is relative, but here I take my stand. I genuinely believe that these types of people are a detriment to any good society. This is the one thing that I will fight against. This is my one man jihad against all these bigotted motherfucks.
Unfortunatly I do not have the means to fight a full scale convential war against the neo-nazis and the KKK. What I do have is my tactics. The "anti-bigot boogeyman" we could say.
My form letter?:
Dear Bigot,
You may have noticed that I took the liberty of slashing your tires and putting a brick through your windshield. The psychological and financial pain you are feeling reflects the pain you have put others through during your years of bigotted discrimination. Perhaps it is time to rethink your life.
I know where you live,
White like you.
(or black, or straight, or whatever to drive it home)
Others write songs discouraging racism. People hold marches to promote gay right or open racial dialogue.
I am not an artist.
I am a soldier.
Prepare for war.
Quote from: hunter s.durden on February 28, 2007, 07:53:03 AM
I am not an artist.
I am a soldier.
Prepare for war.
How 'bout a warrior-poet?
But, yeah, if those fuckers want Armageddon--that's what they'll get. The Messiah, Mahdi, Riz Jeez or whomever he's called in Daoism, Hinduism, Voodoo, ad infinitum.
Hey Cain, you turn up anything on Gypsies smuggling people out of the Balkans during your research?
So, um...who won the pig race?
Rush Limbaugh.
fears a wonderful thing isn't it?
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 28, 2007, 02:44:33 PM
So, um...who won the pig race?
"always bet on black"
/
/
/
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a139/ThornIs/1809_wesley_snipes.jpg)
On a more serious note, I agree with Hunter. However, I wouldn't exactly call it a "war" so much as I call it "pest control".
we gotz the bigots up here in serious numbers. Before it was against the natives, now its against this family who has a East Indian restraunt by my house (on a side note, they make aswome curry and thier waitress daughter is stunning)
all that really happens now is people drive by and shut shit like "go back to Iraq", or "uncover your face. Its degrating towards women!"
the funny part about this all is they're not even Muslims, they're Hindus, but I guess bigots are expected to know the difference.
and she had her face covered with a scarf, cause it was minus 30 degrees outside
Our own bigots are almost totally against Muslims, who only make up 3% of the country here.
Oh, and Albanians/other Balkan types, because they "are all criminals".
Not that you ever see them protesting against US businessmen coming over here....
I fucking hate bigots! I hate them as much as I hate the oppressed minorities who get shit on by them. I'm not sure who I hate the most, the haters or the hated, both I think. I hate anyone who has an ethnicity, regional accent or sexual persuasion. I hate them when they're in a huge crowd, shouting abuse at everyone around them. I hate them when they're whining about being victimised by a different huger crowd. The same ethnics that were wining about the BNP kicking in their doors in 80's are running about in gangs terrorising white kids or chinese.
Bigotry isn't a problem or some kinda vicious cycle, it's a symptom. One more glorious expression of human stupidity. In college the anti-racist people were just as much of a bunch of nazi wankers as the racists.
Quote from: SillyCybin on February 28, 2007, 05:07:08 PM
I fucking hate bigots! I hate them as much as I hate the oppressed minorities who get shit on by them. I'm not sure who I hate the most, the haters or the hated, both I think. I hate anyone who has an ethnicity, regional accent or sexual persuasion. I hate them when they're in a huge crowd, shouting abuse at everyone around them. I hate them when they're whining about being victimised by a different huger crowd. The same ethnics that were wining about the BNP kicking in their doors in 80's are running about in gangs terrorising white kids or chinese.
Bigotry isn't a problem or some kinda vicious cycle, it's a symptom. One more glorious expression of human stupidity. In college the anti-racist people were just as much of a bunch of nazi wankers as the racists.
I hate them all uniformly.
I have reached a Satori of loathing.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 28, 2007, 05:42:40 PM
Quote from: SillyCybin on February 28, 2007, 05:07:08 PM
I fucking hate bigots! I hate them as much as I hate the oppressed minorities who get shit on by them. I'm not sure who I hate the most, the haters or the hated, both I think. I hate anyone who has an ethnicity, regional accent or sexual persuasion. I hate them when they're in a huge crowd, shouting abuse at everyone around them. I hate them when they're whining about being victimised by a different huger crowd. The same ethnics that were wining about the BNP kicking in their doors in 80's are running about in gangs terrorising white kids or chinese.
Bigotry isn't a problem or some kinda vicious cycle, it's a symptom. One more glorious expression of human stupidity. In college the anti-racist people were just as much of a bunch of nazi wankers as the racists.
I hate them all uniformly.
I have reached a Satori of loathing.
I'll wait for your book "The Zen of Misanthropy"
Athough I also wanted to point out that the most annoying factor (for me, at any rate) is how incredibly non-sentient most human actions appear to be. The few humans I do like happen to be those who have managed to convince me that they are, in fact, intelligent beings.
As for the rest of it, however, I must confess that I despise bigots and their victims; the bigots for their irrational, senseless violence; the victims for putting up with all that shit. Honestly. No belief is worth dying for. That would be pointless. Kill for, yes. Not dying for. It is a little known fact outside of the meat packing industry that the domestic bovine race has an advanced, albeit pacifist, culture and are currently awaiting the return of the "Marinated One" to free them. Troof.
Just think how differently Americans would think if Patrick Henry was quoted as saying "Give me liberty or I'll fucking kill you!"
Quote from: Random Probability on February 28, 2007, 06:21:57 PM
Just think how differently Americans would think if Patrick Henry was quoted as saying "Give me liberty or I'll fucking kill you!"
yoinked for meme thread
Quote from: Starship, take me on February 28, 2007, 09:46:37 AM
How 'bout a warrior-poet?
I wish. I am not a wordsmith like, say, LHX who is capable of twisting words into a poetic weapon. I am not like Cain whos vast knowledge of political structure can lead me to write intelligently on the subject, and hope to sway hearts.
I am a dumb ape, just like the very people I hate. I am , however, a large dumb ape with enough knowledge of combat and guerilla tactics to be a nuisence.
The streets have enough poets. It needs more troops.
Quote from: Thurnez Isa on February 28, 2007, 04:41:26 PM
we gotz the bigots up here in serious numbers. Before it was against the natives, now its against this family who has a East Indian restraunt by my house (on a side note, they make aswome curry and thier waitress daughter is stunning)
all that really happens now is people drive by and shut shit like "go back to Iraq", or "uncover your face. Its degrating towards women!"
the funny part about this all is they're not even Muslims, they're Hindus, but I guess bigots are expected to know the difference.
and she had her face covered with a scarf, cause it was minus 30 degrees outside
A disturbing article I read shortly after one terror attack was about a man that was drug out of his store and savagly beaten to death. His attackers wanted to show that freedom would stand, and terrorists would be punished.
The man was a Hindu from India.
And the madness grows.
Quote from: hunter s.durden on February 28, 2007, 09:04:11 PM
A disturbing article I read shortly after one terror attack was about a man that was drug out of his store and savagly beaten to death. His attackers wanted to show that freedom would stand, and terrorists would be punished.
The man was a Hindu from India.
And the madness grows.
Yes. Things like this are the reason Amurikkkans could never stop terrorist on their own. The real terrorists here look like white guys in suits.
I have ceased to be amazed at the seemingly bottomless depths of Amurikkkan stupidity. Recently I was witness to a few average white guys casually insulting a Sikh truck driver. They called him a "raghead" and snidely informed him he should "go home". It was all rather comic in a way. I could tell the Sikh was irritated but he was man enough not to let it show too much. I also wondered if those idiots realized that most Sikhs carry some really wicked knives......
Quote from: Random Probability on February 28, 2007, 11:16:49 PMI also wondered if those idiots realized that most Sikhs carry some really wicked knives......
Thats cos all sikhs are terrorists!
Quote from: hunter s.durden on February 28, 2007, 09:04:11 PM
A disturbing article I read shortly after one terror attack was about a man that was drug out of his store and savagly beaten to death. His attackers wanted to show that freedom would stand, and terrorists would be punished.
The man was a Hindu from India.
And the madness grows.
I can't imagine what will happen to rational thought if we ever faced a massive pandemic
something along the lines of spanish flue, plague... ect.
I must say, I rather like the OP. I like it a lot.
And yeah. I hate everybody the same, it's just that some are easier to hate than others.
Quote from: hunter s.durden on February 28, 2007, 07:53:03 AM
Warning: Radical ideas ahead...
My form letter?:
Dear Bigot,
You may have noticed that I took the liberty of slashing your tires and putting a brick through your windshield. The psychological and financial pain you are feeling reflects the pain you have put others through during your years of bigotted discrimination. Perhaps it is time to rethink your life.
I know where you live,
White like you.
(or black, or straight, or whatever to drive it home)
Others write songs discouraging racism. People hold marches to promote gay right or open racial dialogue.
I am not an artist.
I am a soldier.
Prepare for war.
yer not fighting alone.
i'm working with a lil group of m i l i t ant fuckers here. give a holler if you ever want a hand torching something. diyrevolution [-at-] gmail
It's been my experience that ignorant people won't respond to anything, even violence. The only seemingly logical options are to kill them, imprison them or accept them. None of which will further the war. The first to options makes you one of them, the last option makes you apathetic.
The only option I've ever seen work is to get involved personally, infiltrate and rewire the hard drive. In this instance, push them out of governement in favor of greater acceptance, which, unfortunatley woud include them.
It's a lovely catch 22. I always have to wonder how people with such limiting beliefs manage to achieve so much. It makes me think I'm doing something wrong. :cheers:
Quote from: 1231 on March 26, 2007, 07:02:35 PM
Quote from: hunter s.durden on February 28, 2007, 07:53:03 AM
Warning: Radical ideas ahead...
My form letter?:
Dear Bigot,
You may have noticed that I took the liberty of slashing your tires and putting a brick through your windshield. The psychological and financial pain you are feeling reflects the pain you have put others through during your years of bigotted discrimination. Perhaps it is time to rethink your life.
I know where you live,
White like you.
(or black, or straight, or whatever to drive it home)
Others write songs discouraging racism. People hold marches to promote gay right or open racial dialogue.
I am not an artist.
I am a soldier.
Prepare for war.
yer not fighting alone.
i'm working with a lil group of m i l i t ant fuckers here. give a holler if you ever want a hand torching something. diyrevolution [-at-] gmail
Har har!
I guess I'm gonna have to repost the KYFMS rule.
If you need to learn that lesson you deserve to get captured
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 26, 2007, 07:38:35 PM
Har har!
I guess I'm gonna have to repost the KYFMS rule.
Deffinently, I have no idea what your talking about.
Quote from: Ambassador KAOS on March 26, 2007, 07:55:29 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 26, 2007, 07:38:35 PM
Har har!
I guess I'm gonna have to repost the KYFMS rule.
Deffinently, I have no idea what your talking about.
KEEP YOUR FUCKING MOUTH SHUT. #1 WAY TO STAY OUT OF JAIL.
I am willing to further clarify this, if you'd like.
'strue yer not going to change anyones mind with violence, but sometimes there are specific situations that require violence. it's not about changing minds, it's about efficiency. solving problems, if you will.
fyi, i'm not advocating literal arson here..
other words, i'm always down for a good fistfight in an area where people are getting attacked or heckled severely. been there, will continue to be there.
is that safer enough for now?
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 26, 2007, 09:05:18 PM
Quote from: Ambassador KAOS on March 26, 2007, 07:55:29 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 26, 2007, 07:38:35 PM
Har har!
I guess I'm gonna have to repost the KYFMS rule.
Deffinently, I have no idea what your talking about.
KEEP YOUR FUCKING MOUTH SHUT. #1 WAY TO STAY OUT OF JAIL.
I am willing to further clarify this, if you'd like.
Agreed.
actually, i have to apologize for my initial response. the Rev Rog was dead right, my comment was inappropriate and dumb (phrased as such, in a public forum)
think i got worked up just a tad. Hunter D, i am def. on the same page with that and you said it perfectly. i'll leave it at that.
Please remember that discordians are viewed as dangerous by many in charge. Even this little hole on the web is probably monitered.
Watch how vigorous you get.
Quote from: hunter s.durden on March 27, 2007, 08:02:30 AM
Please remember that discordians are viewed as dangerous by many in charge. Even this little hole on the web is probably monitered.
Watch how vigorous you get.
It is KNOWN to be monitored.
However, as a mod, it would break the law (the PATRIOT Act) to tell you WHO is monitoring it.
Damnit! We'd never be able to guess either. That's a real pisser Rog.
Quote from: SillyCybin on March 27, 2007, 08:04:55 AM
Damnit! We'd never be able to guess either. That's a real pisser Rog.
I didn't write the book, I just enforce it.
Quote from: Ambassador KAOS on March 26, 2007, 07:35:19 PM
It's been my experience that ignorant people won't respond to anything, even violence. The only seemingly logical options are to kill them, imprison them or accept them. None of which will further the war. The first to options makes you one of them, the last option makes you apathetic.
The only option I've ever seen work is to get involved personally, infiltrate and rewire the hard drive. In this instance, push them out of governement in favor of greater acceptance, which, unfortunatley woud include them.
It's a lovely catch 22. I always have to wonder how people with such limiting beliefs manage to achieve so much. It makes me think I'm doing something wrong. :cheers:
Indeed, you try to reason with the opposition and they get indignant. You try to yell at them, they yell back. You bring reason, they bring lies. I gave up,Ķ I just hit them nowadays then run before the cops show up.
You can,Äôt change a mind that,Äôs happy being a bigot,Ķ you can simply prevent that mind from influencing others.
Yeah, I completely understand where you are coming from Hunter.
Myself, I am poet, but to me, poetry in motion is a brick going through a bank window.
Hell, war itself is an act of poetry.
The art of war by Sun-tsu Prooves this.
Well, Hunter...this is the very subject that got me and my husband flown to Oprah in late Sept of '01. You see, well, I'm married to an Afghan Muslim, and after 9/11, I was told by my own relatives to not go out and about and do my shopping or whatnot for fear of being beaten or attacked like the Iranian gas station owner down the street. (ETA: tho we were taken to the show, my husband only ended up on the after show parts b/c Jesse Jackson took up too much time during the live taping)
I don't look Muslim (I'm not, though I do look "ethnic" as "white folks" around here call it, esp when I stand next to my husband--funny how "guilt by association" works in peoples' minds), and no one knows what my married name is, so I didn't hide in fear as my family wanted. I will, however, fight tooth and nail when I see and hear bigotry against Muslims in general. It's so pervasive in our popular culture, that it's REALLY tough to defeat.
But it's like anything else, really, that's considered "other" in society. We see it with the Latino cultures here...they are discriminated against left and right, and they are heralded as the worst of the worst, when they are really the best of what we have around here (I'm in San Diego). But they are feared because they are cohesive and pervasive. They got it goin' on. That scares folks who should know better and should be more secure in what they already got.
And that's the crux of it, to me. It's fear. It's not knowing who your neighbor is so shoot first, ask questions later. Fear stems from ignorance, and this is what I always come back to.
I fear for my kids, being half-Afghan. But then I also know that I'm raising them WITHOUT that same fear, so they will be ok. My kids are pretty well color-blind and religiously blind as well. But socially aware. I hope that stays with them all their lives, I truly do. I make sacrifices on their behalf to keep this going.
It's a war I've been in without even knowing I was fighting, til it was too late and there I was right smack dab in the middle of it.
Quote from: Lysergic on March 28, 2007, 04:01:46 PMHell, war itself is an act of poetry.
The art of war by Sun-tsu Prooves this.
nononono it doesn't "prove" this.
because
the art of war is a book.
and a war is a thing in which lots of really real people die and it's ugly and messy and books get burned and poets raped.
and yes, you can write about war, you can make a movie about it, which can be poetry. but war "itself" isn't.
Quote from: triple zero on March 29, 2007, 09:36:03 AM
Quote from: Lysergic on March 28, 2007, 04:01:46 PMHell, war itself is an act of poetry.
The art of war by Sun-tsu Prooves this.
nononono it doesn't "prove" this.
because the art of war is a book.
and a war is a thing in which lots of really real people die and it's ugly and messy and books get burned and poets raped.
and yes, you can write about war, you can make a movie about it, which can be poetry. but war "itself" isn't.
Yep. Let's take a closer look at that:
Litany for Dictatorships
A poem by Stephen Vincent Benet
For all those beaten, for the broken heads,
The fosterless, the simple, the oppressed,
The ghosts in the burning city of our time,Ķ
For those taken in rapid cars to the house and beaten
By the skillful boys with the rubber fists,
-Held down and beaten, the table cutting the loins
Or kicked in the groin and left, with the muscles jerking
Like a headless hen's on the floor of the slaughter-house
While they brought the next man in with his white eyes staring.
For those who still said "Red Front" or "God save the Crown!"
And for those who were not courageous
But were beaten nevertheless.
For those who spit out the bloody stumps of their teeth
Quietly in the hall,
Sleep well on stone or iron, watch for the time
And kill the guard in the privy before they die,
Those with the deep-socketed eyes and the lamp burning.
For those who carry the scars, who walk lame - for those
Whose nameless graves are made in the prison-yard
And the earth smoothed back before the morning and the lime scattered.
For those slain at once.
For those living through the months and years
Enduring, watching, hoping, going each day
To the work or the queue for meat or the secret club,
Living meanwhile, begetting children, smuggling guns,
And found and killed at the end like rats in a drain.
For those escaping
Incredibly into exile and wandering there.
For those who live in the small rooms of foreign cities
And who yet think of the country, the long green grass,
The childhood voices, the language, the way wind smelt then,
The shape of rooms, the coffee drunk at the table,
The talk with friends, the loved city, the waiter's face,
The gravestones, with the name, where they will not lie
Nor in any of that earth.
Their children are strangers.
For those who planned and were leaders and were beaten
And for those, humble and stupid, who had no plan
But were denounced, but were angry, but told a joke,
But could not explain, but were sent away to the camp,
But had their bodies shipped back in the sealed coffins,
"Died of pneumonia." "Died trying to escape."
For those growers of wheat who were shot by their own wheat-stacks,
For those growers of bread who were sent to the ice-locked wastes.
And their flesh remembers the fields.
For those denounced by their smug, horrible children
For a peppermint-star and the praise of the Perfect State,
For all those strangled, gelded or merely starved
To make perfect states; for the priest hanged in his cassock,
The Jew with his chest crushed in and his eyes dying,
The revolutionist lynched by the private guards
To make perfect states, in the names of the perfect states.
For those betrayed by the neigbours they shook hands with
And for the traitors, sitting in the hard chair
With the loose sweat crawling their hair and their fingers restless
As they tell the street and the house and the man's name.
And for those sitting at the table in the house
With the lamp lit and the plates and the smell of food,
Talking so quietly; when they hear the cars
And the knock at the door, and they look at each other quickly
And the woman goes to the door with a stiff face,
Smoothing her dress.
"We are all good citizens here. We believe in the Perfect State."
And that was the last time Tony or Karl or Shorty came to the house
And the family was liquidated later.
It was the last time.
We heard the shots in the night
But nobody knew next day what the trouble was
And a man must go to his work.
So I didn't see him
For three days, then, and me near out of my mind
And all the patrols on the streets with their dirty guns
And when he came back, he looked drunk, and the blood was on him.
For the women who mourn their dead in the secret night,
For the children taught to keep quiet, the old children,
The children spat-on at school.
For the wrecked laboratory,
The gutted house, the dunged picture, the pissed-in well
The naked corpse of Knowledge flung in the square
And no man lifting a hand and no man speaking.
For the cold of the pistol-butt and the bullet's heat,
For the ropes that choke, the manacles that bind,
The huge voice, metal, that lies from a thousand tubes
And the stuttering machine-gun that answers all.
For the man crucified on the crossed machine guns
Without name, without ressurection, without stars,
His dark head heavy with death and his flesh long sour
With the smell of his many prisons - John Smith, John Doe,
John Nobody - oh, crack your mind for his name!
Faceless as water, naked as the dust,
Dishonored as the earth the gas-shells poison
And barbarous with portent.
This is he.
This is the man they ate at the green table
Putting their gloves on ere they touched the meat.
This is the fruit of war, the fruit of peace,
The ripeness of invention, the new lamb,
The answer to the wisdom of the wise.
And still he hangs, and still he will not die
And still, on the steel city of our years
The light falls and the terrible blood streams down.
We thought we were done with these things but we were wrong.
We thought, because we had power, we had wisdom.
We thought the long train would run to the end of Time.
We thought the light would increase.
Now the long train stands derailed and the bandits loot it.
Now the boar and the asp have power in our time.
Now the night rolls back on the West and the night is solid.
Our fathers and ourselves sowed dragon's teeth.
Our children know and suffer the armed men.
Quote from: triple zero on March 29, 2007, 09:36:03 AM
Quote from: Lysergic on March 28, 2007, 04:01:46 PMHell, war itself is an act of poetry.
The art of war by Sun-tsu Prooves this.
nononono it doesn't "prove" this.
because the art of war is a book.
and a war is a thing in which lots of really real people die and it's ugly and messy and books get burned and poets raped.
and yes, you can write about war, you can make a movie about it, which can be poetry. but war "itself" isn't.
I'm sorry, but the way that I see things, I'd have to say, war is a type of act of poetry... /me puts on anal retentive hat for a minute
ok, dictionary defines "poet" as,
1. a person who composes poetry.
2. a person who has the gift of poetic thought, imagination, and creation, together with eloquence of expression.
and "poetry" as
1. the art of rhythmical composition, written or spoken, for exciting pleasure by beautiful, imaginative, or elevated thoughts.
2. literary work in metrical form; verse.
3. prose with poetic qualities.
4. poetic qualities however manifested: the poetry of simple acts and things.
5. poetic spirit or feeling: The pianist played the prelude with poetry.
6. something suggestive of or likened to poetry: the pure poetry of a beautiful view on a clear day.
Now, what I can garner from this is, what exactly a poet and poetry is, seems to be a little ambigous.
Arguable, I could say all the warmongers of the world are poets, because they have the ability to use thought, imagination, and creation to put forth an expression that will pull at the heart strings of the people.
Poetry isn't just writing shit and singing it, it's a verb, an action, "The Poetry of simple acts and things".
Poetry doesn't always have to be beautiful, but it it's supposed to do is influence the emotions of those recieving the poetry.
Thus, I propose that war is an act of poetry, and poems can be written about it, and can be it itself.
To create an image in ones mind and shape the way they act and think, this is poetry.
War is the result of a type of poetry, and is poetry in itself.
And then again, I propose the question, mainly to myself, but also to all those who are following my line of thought... What *isn't* poetry, if that is case?
Quote from: triple zero on March 29, 2007, 09:36:03 AM
Quote from: Lysergic on March 28, 2007, 04:01:46 PMHell, war itself is an act of poetry.
The art of war by Sun-tsu Prooves this.
nononono it doesn't "prove" this.
because the art of war is a book.
Also, look at the title of the book. The "ART" of war.
Big hint there.
1. the word "art" refers not to anything artistic in this title. it's more to do with the word "artisan". like "the art of building chairs", which doesn't mean building really fancy chairs that evoke emotions in people, it means building chairs and just being damn good and skillfull at it. (anal right back at ya)
also i just looked at wikipedia, and it seems this book is also referred to with other names, which have nothing to do with art: Sun Tzu's Book of Military Strategy, etc
2. i get what you're trying to say though. except i disagree with it because
a - i think war is way too ugly and senseless to be considered in this manner. the "warmongers" you speak about are also just people who happen to be there making highlevel decisions that get lost in the noise as it trickles down the hierarchy as others carry it out. who is being the artist then? sometimes wars get started over a misunderstanding, sometimes "warmongers" fail miserably and create far worse stunted stumbling suffering situations than even they would deem "necessary". war is a big mess. it's when the Machine decides there needs to be some high-level reordering done, and on this level hu-mans are just gears and statistics, to be burnt, shot, trampled on, thrown away and replaced with new ones. i really fail to see the poetry in such cold uncaring grinding of the wheels of the Machine.
b - like you say, if you consider *that* poetry, you might as well consider everything poetry. which makes the statement meaningless IMO. kinda like the "All is One" Ultimate Conversation StopperTM.
War is a bone breaking, blood splattering undertaking. Bullets rip through muscles that support the body and cause infections among the survivors that require months of surgery. Bombs burn and half vapourize men, women get raped and children get tortured to give up their parents as combatants. Victory is stumbled to instead of taken with skill and everything is considered justified in order to reach that goal.
that is so poetic, it makes me sick :sad:
Quote from: triple zero on March 29, 2007, 10:38:47 AM
1. the word "art" refers not to anything artistic in this title. it's more to do with the word "artisan". like "the art of building chairs", which doesn't mean building really fancy chairs that evoke emotions in people, it means building chairs and just being damn good and skillfull at it. (anal right back at ya)
also i just looked at wikipedia, and it seems this book is also referred to with other names, which have nothing to do with art: Sun Tzu's Book of Military Strategy, etc
2. i get what you're trying to say though. except i disagree with it because
a - i think war is way too ugly and senseless to be considered in this manner. the "warmongers" you speak about are also just people who happen to be there making highlevel decisions that get lost in the noise as it trickles down the hierarchy as others carry it out. who is being the artist then? sometimes wars get started over a misunderstanding, sometimes "warmongers" fail miserably and create far worse stunted stumbling suffering situations than even they would deem "necessary". war is a big mess. it's when the Machine decides there needs to be some high-level reordering done, and on this level hu-mans are just gears and statistics, to be burnt, shot, trampled on, thrown away and replaced with new ones. i really fail to see the poetry in such cold uncaring grinding of the wheels of the Machine.
b - like you say, if you consider *that* poetry, you might as well consider everything poetry. which makes the statement meaningless IMO. kinda like the "All is One" Ultimate Conversation StopperTM.
1. Yeah, I suppose you have a point with that whole Chair thing...
2. Yeah, look, it's fair enough that you don't see war as poetry, I get where your coming from, it's just that something in my logic centre tells me that War is a Type of Poetry, because poetry is just as ambigious as what "art" is as well.
I guess it comes down to the whole "True in some ways, False in Someways, Meaningless in Someways" Bobbie thing.
2:
yeah but that's what i was talking about. i get where you are coming from too, the only problem with it is that if you consider everything that evokes an emotion as "poetry", the word "poetry" itself becomes quite meaningless.
hence i think a littlebit tighter definition of "poetry" desirable.
and whatever this definition might be (it's an ambiguous thing, i'll give you that, so i'm not going to try) i really don't think you can fit "war" in there, or the definition will again become "everything".
hope i made myself clear as to without defining "poetry", arguing why "war" isn't.
thanks
Quote from: triple zero on March 29, 2007, 11:02:33 AM
2:
yeah but that's what i was talking about. i get where you are coming from too, the only problem with it is that if you consider everything that evokes an emotion as "poetry", the word "poetry" itself becomes quite meaningless.
hence i think a littlebit tighter definition of "poetry" desirable.
and whatever this definition might be (it's an ambiguous thing, i'll give you that, so i'm not going to try) i really don't think you can fit "war" in there, or the definition will again become "everything".
hope i made myself clear as to without defining "poetry", arguing why "war" isn't.
thanks
Oh yeah, I definitely get you there, I hope I made it clear that in my own personal definition of "poetry", why I think "war" is :D
Everything can be viewed as an artform. Warfare no less so than impressionist painting. But it's a subjective thing. More people see the art in Pink Floyd or Matisse. Less see the art in a haze of blood and bullets but that doesn't mean it's not there, waiting to be discovered.
Read three kingdoms or art of war and it's not hard to see the artistry there. Chairs can also be a work of art, ask Van Gough. You just have to see it.
Thank you Silly, that's basically what I was trying to get at.
Rape is a poetic artform?
Awesome.
It is if you see it that way. Read my lips - S U B J E C T I V E
I bet theres at least one somewhere
You realize you just gave pedos an excuse, right?
Yes, just as we get an excuse to poetically beat the shit outta pedos.
Quote from: Lysergic on March 29, 2007, 03:08:37 PMwe get an excuse to poetically beat the shit outta pedos
FOR GREAT POETIC JUSTICE
:)
Quote from: Lysergic on March 29, 2007, 09:57:34 AM
Quote from: triple zero on March 29, 2007, 09:36:03 AM
Quote from: Lysergic on March 28, 2007, 04:01:46 PMHell, war itself is an act of poetry.
The art of war by Sun-tsu Prooves this.
nononono it doesn't "prove" this.
because the art of war is a book.
Also, look at the title of the book. The "ART" of war.
Big hint there.
Here's some art for ya:
(http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/images/0411-04.jpg) <--- went easy on this on purpose.
Sucks to be the canvass, though, right?
There have been plenty of people who have suffered for art in the past and I'm sure there will always be plenty of people who will suffer today and tomorrow.
Too bad they have to be unwilling participants in this art project, it fucking sucks.
So was there supposed to be some sort of hidden point to that Rog, or were you simply deciding to respond to what I said?
Hmm, a question you did bring to mind though... what if that picture was just handpainted realistically, in a world where this didn't actually happen?
What would be the difference to the person who is looking at the end result?
Quote from: Lysergic on March 29, 2007, 05:49:30 PM
Hmm, a question you did bring to mind though... what if that picture was just handpainted realistically, in a world where this didn't actually happen?
What would be the difference to the person who is looking at the end result?
Probably the same difference between Hentai and actual kiddie porn.
Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
Quote from: Lysergic on March 29, 2007, 05:49:30 PM
There have been plenty of people who have suffered for art in the past and I'm sure there will always be plenty of people who will suffer today and tomorrow.
Too bad they have to be unwilling participants in this art project, it fucking sucks.
I don't see the art here
all I see is pain, sorrow, lies, suffering and death
and people trying to convince us its noble
of course its always easy to see the nobility in actions from the sidelines
Quote from: Thurnez Isa on March 29, 2007, 05:55:31 PM
Quote from: Lysergic on March 29, 2007, 05:49:30 PM
There have been plenty of people who have suffered for art in the past and I'm sure there will always be plenty of people who will suffer today and tomorrow.
Too bad they have to be unwilling participants in this art project, it fucking sucks.
I don't see the art here
all I see is pain, sorrow, lies, suffering and death
and people trying to convince us its noble
of course its always easy to see the nobility in actions from the sidelines
It's "art" I SUPPOSE. But it's like watching
Smokey and the Bandit 100 times in a row.
Blowing a child to smithereens is not art,Ķ but there is certainly poetry in it; watching the life fade from the innocent child, the millisecond and every flinch as the bomb tore her body asunder. The rage of the people that fallow can certainly credit that as art.
Art is not always a beautiful thing, its terrible and strange at times. Occasionally one must place blood and pain at its alter but the product holds all the meaning as when a mother weeps before her dead chilled,Ķ or so we should hope.
:sad:
Quote from: Genocide Device on March 30, 2007, 12:10:34 AM
Blowing a child to smithereens is not art,Ķ
But I think we can all agree that
is pornography.
and child pornography at that
Quote from: Professor Cramulus on March 30, 2007, 12:29:08 AM
Quote from: Genocide Device on March 30, 2007, 12:10:34 AM
Blowing a child to smithereens is not art…
But I think we can all agree that is pornography.
and child pornography at that
I just kinda lump sum these things into "why i cary a gun" catagory
Quote from: Professor Cramulus on March 30, 2007, 12:29:08 AM
Quote from: Genocide Device on March 30, 2007, 12:10:34 AM
Blowing a child to smithereens is not art,Ķ
But I think we can all agree that is pornography.
and child pornography at that
That's a really, really good point.
Quote from: LMNO on March 29, 2007, 02:55:55 PM
You realize you just gave pedos an excuse, right?
Art isn't an excuse - art is an observation.
Not everyone like Damien Hirst, for example. But it's art whether you agree with it or not.
(http://www.putridpile.com/images/thepleasureinsuffering.jpg)
^^^^ some art I don't like.
so, is tub girl art?
goatseman?
the pain series?
that serie of mutilated manga from that swedish(?) server?
Yes to all except the tub girl. Tub girl is just crap with some chick.
it's not crap, it's orange juice
and the fountain is aestethically pleasing ;-P
Quote from: triple zero on March 31, 2007, 06:33:33 PM
it's not crap, it's orange juice
and the fountain is aestethically pleasing ;-P
Actually, its orange enema.
Quote from: Buddhist_Monk_Wannabe on April 01, 2007, 02:43:21 AMQuote from: triple zero on March 31, 2007, 06:33:33 PM
it's not crap, it's orange juice
and the fountain is aestethically pleasing ;-P
Actually, its orange enema.
? what do you mean? that's what i said, right?
Quote from: SillyCybin on March 31, 2007, 02:47:23 PM
Quote from: LMNO on March 29, 2007, 02:55:55 PM
You realize you just gave pedos an excuse, right?
Art isn't an excuse - art is an observation.
Not everyone like Damien Hirst, for example. But it's art whether you agree with it or not.
(http://www.putridpile.com/images/thepleasureinsuffering.jpg)
^^^^ some art I don't like.
Not art.
I am hereby naming myself final arbiter of what is - and is not - art.
Dogs playing poker, you are on notice.
What about dogs smoking pipes?
RUH-ROH
\
(http://artfiles.art.com/images/-/Dogs-Playing-Poker-Poster-C10027437.jpeg)
Quote from: triple zero on April 01, 2007, 08:24:57 PM
RUH-ROH
\
(http://artfiles.art.com/images/-/Dogs-Playing-Poker-Poster-C10027437.jpeg)
Do not fuck with the (slightly less) old masters
I was thinking of a painting, not some shitty mug, but this will have to do...
(http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u289/PayneAlpha/dog-bassett.jpg)
Anything that isn't art is pornography.
Anything.
so, anything is pornography.
hence rule 34.
Rule 34 is the answer to the ultimate question of life the universe and everything
I came up with a definition of pornography- Any imagery that offends.
Which of course means, one persons art is another persons porn, depending on how you want to look at it.
Quote from: triple zero on April 02, 2007, 09:30:00 AM
so, anything is pornography.
hence rule 34.
No, anything Gonzales doesn't like is pornography.
Or Ashcroft.
Or Meese.
Or any of the OTHER people given the job of enforcing this nation's laws, and taking that to mean they are the moral guardians of Baby Jesus.
Torturing people, on the other hand, is
just fine.
so, baby jesus is not pornography?
not even child pr0n?
not even wiff all the christians getting a hard one from it?
Quote from: triple zero on April 02, 2007, 08:51:42 PM
so, baby jesus is not pornography?
not even child pr0n?
not even wiff all the christians getting a hard one from it?
1. No.
2. No.
3. Stop thinking about the rule of law. It's bad for you.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 02, 2007, 05:22:35 PM
Quote from: triple zero on April 02, 2007, 09:30:00 AM
so, anything is pornography.
hence rule 34.
No, anything Gonzales doesn't like is pornography.
Or Ashcroft.
Or Meese.
Or any of the OTHER people given the job of enforcing this nation's laws, and taking that to mean they are the moral guardians of Baby Jesus.
Torturing people, on the other hand, is just fine.
Ewwww...Edwin MEESE!
You'll have to pay for mentioning HIM, TGRR. Yuck.
Quote from: Jenne on April 03, 2007, 07:02:27 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 02, 2007, 05:22:35 PM
Quote from: triple zero on April 02, 2007, 09:30:00 AM
so, anything is pornography.
hence rule 34.
No, anything Gonzales doesn't like is pornography.
Or Ashcroft.
Or Meese.
Or any of the OTHER people given the job of enforcing this nation's laws, and taking that to mean they are the moral guardians of Baby Jesus.
Torturing people, on the other hand, is just fine.
Ewwww...Edwin MEESE!
You'll have to pay for mentioning HIM, TGRR. Yuck.
Hee hee! He's back. Kinda.