Alot of people interested in the counter-culture in general and particularly the three ring circus of Discordianism (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/), the CotSG (http://www.subgenius.com/) and affiliated Subcordian asshats, take a deep interest in conspiracy theories and the workings of secret cabals which are hostile to our very existence. I don't necessarily need to describe such groups as I'm sure you know what I mean. The Illuminati (http://www.aracnet.com/%7Ekbuxton/discordia/loopi.html), various arms of The Conspiracy (http://www.subgenius.com/bigfist/answers/conbrag.html)....Them, in short.
Obviously, many ordinary people do not believe in any sort of Them at all and so these groups have perhaps jeopardized their "credibility" (as if what Pinks and Greys think actually matters) in certain circles. However, a lot of people are wasting their time in this general area of inquiry. Thats not to say there are not conspiracies, because there are and they are very real, but most people have been hoodwinked into looking in totally the wrong direction for them. I certainly don't have all the answers, but I am in a position where I can quite legitimately research the linkage in the corridors of power and am able to tell you what I know.
I wont name names however....not real names. Rule 1: everyone is a disinformation agent. Its all too easy for false information to be fed to you or me, so I'll just sketch out the general 'shape' of whats going on, letting you fill in the blanks yourself. I'll also tell you what is likely not true and why I think thats the case. Firstly, the liars.
Many Conspiracy Theorists come from the Christian Patriot Movement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Patriot), a collection of pig-ignorant degenerates and criminals who couldn't find their backsides with both hands, let alone highly intelligent conspirators working in the shadows. Invariably these idiots will make racist claims of "International Jewish Bankers" and...well, I barely need to go on. The sort of shit you can read in The Turner Diaries (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turner_Diaries) and other pieces of infantile fantasizing interspersed with horrific racist violence and disgusting characterization. If you believe anything that comes from these circles, chances are you're a brainwashed idiot duped by some charismatic leader with a Messianic complex.
Building on from example one, there is the general "Jewish Conspiracy" which is popular among the far-right (just ask Nick Griffin (http://www.stopthebnp.org.uk/campainging/NickGriffin.htm)), the far left and various religious groups. This is quite frankly utter horsecrap....going by history, we should probably have a White Christian Male conspiracy, as these are usually the people involved in such things. Its basically scapegoating and stems from a religious need to place the blame for the death of Jesus on anyone but the Romans, who actually did him in. Anyone with any real knowledge of history would dismiss the idea of any single ethno-religious group being behind all conspiracies, or even just a large one as utter crap.
The UN is another one also taken from the far-right. Apparently they are a godless and evil organization preparing to take over the USA and occupy it with foreign troops....whereas the depressing truth is in fact the UN is nothing more than a device for the USA to legitimize its actions abroad. It doesn't always work of course, but given the powers the US gave to itself as a charter member....well, its a testament to the power of propaganda that people can think its anything but a slightly unruly tool of the USA.
Intelligence (https://www.cia.gov/) services (http://www.mi6.gov.uk/) are often a favourite one, for obvious reasons. Cloaked in secrecy, given wide powers to act pretty much outside the law, the similarities with secret police of bygone times, yeah here we are onto something more plausible. However, it should be remembered that almost always these are merely foot soldiers for higher powers and if they are doing something, its because they have been directed to do so. Running drugs, assassinations and so on, while invariably blamed on a rogue faction, do serve a greater political or security purpose.
The Satanic cult is another favourite, particularly among David Icke (http://www.davidicke.com/index.php/) sorts, who can combine it with the relatively more interesting alien abduction theories. Satanic Ritual Abuse (http://www.religioustolerance.org/ra_none.htm) is probably one of the greatest scare stories of the 80s, one for which there is very little to no real evidence. Most Satanists are....well, jerks basically. Smart people, very quick mentally, but real assholes. The CoS (http://www.churchofsatan.com/) is basically a money making device and the Temple of Set (http://www.xeper.org/)...well, its occult so its not my cup of tea, but its no worse than what Wiccans get up to. What is often referred to as organized Satanic abuse in fact is usually widely disorganized and carried out by...mentally ill Christians. Who, coincidentally, are the sort of people most likely to promote this theory.
Alien abduction is interesting....in the few cases where there is genuine reason to believe that is in fact what happened. However, in most cases they are part of a carefully crafted government disinformation project. Not only does it explain experimental aircraft (http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/b2/)tests quite nicely, it also keeps a whole bunch of people on a wild goose chase, either keeping them distracted and ruining their credibility, or causing the believers to fall under the sway of irrational terror and hopelessness. I'll explain more on this another time, but there is evidence to suggest that intelligence agencies have in fact staged many of these events, either as part of a general disinfo project (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Blue_Book) or as covers for other activities. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKULTRA)
International Banking is actually one of the few areas where the theorists may have a point. If you throw in the various multinational companies involved with them, as well as a few NGOs. The World Bank and IMF are essentially tools (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Bank#Criticism) of the European and US governments, used to "crack open" foreign markets, totally undermine the economy, then buy up previously state owned companies at bargain basement prices and bleed the plebs. Its the modern day version of colonialism, only it actually makes a profit.
Secret societies are of course the number one favourite for conspiracy theorists. Been around a long time, naturally secretive....the problem is most of them are basically talking shops. Anyone can join the Freemasons and while there are a few specific lodges that have been involved in some nasty shit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_Due), the majority are quite dull. The Illuminati have never been proven to exist beyond their downfall in 1785 and the Priory of Sion were always a sham. Most of these are generally beneficial organizations anyway, the Freemasons in particular being closely aligned to Enlightenment ideals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Enlightenment) expressed by writers like Voltaire and Diderot.
So what do I believe?
I think there are certain...factions at the very top of the political-economic structure, whose membership is hard to ascertain but who can be judged by their actions. At least one is highly antagonistic, ultra-nationalist and allied with certain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Oil_companies_by_country) sectors (http://www.export.gov/iraq/) of (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_military_contractor) big (http://www.corporatewatch.org.uk/?lid=1293) business (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_banking). These are closely allied with certain Theocratic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_right) nuts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Saud), with whom there is overall agreement, though each dislike the other for certain reasons relating to their own beliefs. There is one whose view could most accurately be described as Neo-Liberal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism_%28international_relations%29), who are largely benevolent and are closely linked to a benevolent movement for world governance (http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/kant/kant1.htm). And there is another who wants the same world governance, but for entirely less high-minded reasons.
And of course, within each group there are sub-groups, factions and dissent.
One final tip before I end this - don't look to fancy sounding names and titles, because thats entirely the wrong way. Look towards bland sounding committees and think tanks, with boring names like the Committee for a Free Britain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Committee_for_a_Free_Britain) or The American (http://www.aei.org/) Enterprise (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Enterprise_Institute)Institute (http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=American_Enterprise_Institute)....also watch out, as certain groups (such as the Project for a New American Century) are likely to shed their skin and change when exposed to too much light (as when they changed into the AEI).
Apart from those, for me Conspiracy Theorism is rather like Alternate History (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternate_history_%28fiction%29) discussion, its an interesting look into how the world could be, as well as fuel for the imagination.
:mittens:
I been kinda wondering, over the last couple of days, what you intend to be when you graduate. Do you have a plan?
Thanks :mrgreen:
Not sure, to be honest. I'm considering some more "out there" research opportunities in the Carribbean....Hustle knows some people down that way and it fits into my area of expertise.
Failing that, writing. I can at least do that well.
The last part of this was particularly good to me because I am of the same mindset of "The real conspiracies are probably rarely even considered" along with "it's not the super-secret organization, it's the innoculous, well meaning ones that are dangerous."
As for UFO's, when I hear government say "Neither confirm nor deny" I know its bullshit. Ever asked a buddy if he banged somebody? If he comes back with a coy sounding "I wouldn't tell if I did" he didn't. He dosen't want to say yes and lie, he wants you to infer that he did. Government does the same thing, but instead of social "gettin' laid" prestige, their currency is fear and confusion.
Did you ever finish the Turner Diaries?
No. Reading black people = monkeys LOLOLOLOL for the 10 thousand time made it rather dull (and whats up with that anyway, I thought Christian patriots didn't believe in evolution?). I got to the point the Chinese soldiers and black ghetto leaders, along with the UN have taken over America. :roll:
wow
excellent
thats shit Ive been trying to tell some of my friends for a while, though far more organized then I could make it
now I could just link em to your blog
**ATTENTION**
All conspiracy theories are true
Especially the ones I made up
Cain: Some very radical Christians sects believe being black is a sin.
Mormons believe American Indians were colored red. They used to be Jews but God colored them red because of their sin.
Not believing in evolution nevr stopped anybody. Remember: we cannot work under the assumpton that their beliefs were constructed in any rational way, and this extends to the conspiracy theories.
Quote from: hunter s.durden on March 03, 2007, 11:25:21 PM
Mormons believe American Indians were colored red. They used to be Jews but God colored them red because of their sin.
I remember that from church, teh Lamanites got their skin colored red because they fought the Nephites. (Basically punishing them for rebelliousness)
funny that the Mormons should pop up in a thread about conspiracy theories.
the only true conspiracy theory, REALLY, is the fact that the Mormons run the entire planet from a secret beehive 300 miles under Salt Lake City.  also, they own like 85% of Hawaii, so you know they're up to something evil.
Quote from: vexati0n on March 04, 2007, 12:14:23 AM
funny that the Mormons should pop up in a thread about conspiracy theories.
the only true conspiracy theory, REALLY, is the fact that the Mormons run the entire planet from a secret beehive 300 miles under Salt Lake City.  also, they own like 85% of Hawaii, so you know they're up to something evil.
They also own the boyscouts, so theyre
getting them while theyre young.
Quote from: Idem on March 04, 2007, 12:19:06 AMThey also own the boyscouts, so theyre getting them while theyre young.
that's just common sense.
the young ones have less toxins, so they taste better.
so far so good
you find a way to add the templar knights and the cathars in that theory of yours and you got yourself a winner
There has actually been some conspiracy type shit from Scientologist. They sought to infiltrate the government (or something). Being a group of ineffectual retards, however, their plans meant little.
It was the biggest spying ring and case of domestic intelligence gathering in the USA ever. Including the Soviets and Stasi.
Jesus, I knew it was big (didn't they get agents pretty deep into the FBI?), but bigger than the Soviets?
I guess they're winning the "who is actually conspiring" war.
Apparently. The Soviets got Aldrich Ames of course, but they lost much of their intelligence assets in the Red Scare because recruiting became harder and much more costly. They had some in the State Dept during WWII, the Rosenbergs of course, but as a single operation they never got near the level of the CoS. The Walker Spy Ring maybe, was much more important, but as a rule intelligence agencies work very small scale, with as few links as possible between agents and officers to stop leaks.
Edited, now with HTLMy linked goodness (shit my head hurts).
the first thread by cain, right on, that was my deduction of the whole conspiracy theories, last few years been looking at alot of shit and alot is out there, i just wish i was smoking what some of these conspiracy thoeries.
i never disbelieave but ill never believe, a conspiracy theory, theres just never enuff proof.
awesome summary of the topic... I've been around the conspiracy circuit pretty thoroughly, and have run into pretty much the same conclusions. Sure, the Templars might have turned into the Freemasons, but past the American Revolution the Freemasons have turned into a nearly impotent social club. Etc and so on.
Oddly enough, as I was debunking some of the juicier government conspiracies (Cain, again right on the money- there are conspiracies but it's almost all in plain site- IMF, World Bank, Haliburton)
one thing I never expected to see ANY weight to started cropping up in my field of vision.. UFO/ET stuff. What's the deal there? I've scoffed at that arena for years, but I keep running into deep running themes. Ancient/historic artwork that depicts things damn like spaceships/spacesuits, etc bug me especially.
(for example: http://www.ufoartwork.com/ (http://www.ufoartwork.com/))
Oh, and what about 9/11? I still have some serious questions about that (been following that one since day of, long before it became a hype event- which i think is interesting in and of itself, the amount of controversy that has sprung up)
any thoughts on those two?
personally, i think UFO myths are general humans-will-be-dumbshits stuff, but it's somewhat supported by government with its 'neither confirm nor deny' crap, because it's a convenient way to divert attention from experimental aircraft tests and the like.
as for 9/11, there's evidence that points to a 'conspiracy,' but nobody wants to hear it, and if you question that it's anything other than the Terrist Evildoors, then you're obviously just undermining Freedom(tm) and the American Way(tm).
but really, there are so many conspiracies that there must be a conspiracy somewhere whose sole purpose is to generate more conspiracies.
Quote from: vexati0n on March 26, 2007, 08:26:19 PM
personally, i think UFO myths are general humans-will-be-dumbshits stuff, but it's somewhat supported by government with its 'neither confirm nor deny' crap, because it's a convenient way to divert attention from experimental aircraft tests and the like.
as for 9/11, there's evidence that points to a 'conspiracy,' but nobody wants to hear it, and if you question that it's anything other than the Terrist Evildoors, then you're obviously just undermining Freedom(tm) and the American Way(tm).
but really, there are so many conspiracies that there must be a conspiracy somewhere whose sole purpose is to generate more conspiracies.
That would be me :oops:
makes sense on the government red herring front, 'cept it doesn't seem like the decades of these floating thingies have really panned out into visible hardware. of course there's gonna be tons of shit that never sees the light of day, but the bureaucratic government eventually wants to use all the toys they've spent billions of our money on.. yah, we got the newer stealthier stuff but no interesting propulsion, only primitive VTOL, etc. dunno...
believe me, i'm no die hard ufo junky.. i've just been piqued out of my cynicism a little bit.
as for 9/11.. well. guess this really isn't the venue for either of these topics.
Almost all the UFO groups are spin-offs from the COINTELPRO operation. Look how they are fed constantly conflicting information that keeps them on edge and offering a solution or answer in a few years. Not to mention all these leaks come from ex-military people.
9/11 is simple. Why would the government plant bombs, then use planes as a cover, then blame Al-Qaeda, only to spend 2 years furiously spinning info and intel to invade Iraq? They could have claimed the bombs were just bombs and that they were put in place by Iraqis...we know they were obssessed about invading that place. What happened was they got some intel that an attack was planned and sat on their hands, so they could direct public opinion from there on in and pass nearly all security legislation with minimal token resistance.