1. Come up with a better name (BIP is too philosophically constrictive and attracts emo/goth types. Sorry, but it is).
2. Decide where we want to go from there. Is this meant to be a blueprint for action or trying to figure stuff out? Throw in a target audience here.
3. Get writing.
4. Position the project as something associated with the Discordian movement but not part of it. Thats important, because sooner or later everything fizzles out and I'd rather the place where the ideas come from didn't go with it.
5. More suggestions?
1. Agreed, and it's also plagerism.
2. No idea.
3. In process.
4. Good idea.
1. Good idea. Would help us avoid the Wrath of Dick.
2. Another good idea, too much sticking apart will lead to us getting stuck.
3. Trying, as time allows
4. So, are you thinking like the BIP is a colleague of PD instead of a dependant progeny?
5. Someone's gotta say, "I think we should all write about X" And then, we all write about X. And then, if there is a group that says, "Hey, I don't know shit about X." then we come up with an alternate plan/project. I think we all have a common energy, but a common specific focus, IMO, isn't totally there yet.
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on March 07, 2007, 04:57:02 PM5.  Someone's gotta say, "I think we should all write about X"  And then, we all write about X.  And then, if there is a group that says, "Hey, I don't know shit about X."  then we come up with an alternate plan/project.  I think we all have a common energy, but a common specific focus, IMO, isn't totally there yet.
this is a good idea and it seems to work, looking at Rog's SBOTD
ok it wasn't exactly one coherent theme, but there came some very good texts quickly
but does this work with the magazine thing? we could get "theme" issues?
- i can think of one good theme that would probably do well with new people "ok so you convinced me everything's fukt NOW WHAT DO I DO ABOUT IT?", either that or take a step back and convince people everything's fukt.
Oh yeah, the magazine. I guess I'm still stuck in the past of pamphlets. In that case my idea perhaps isn't all that pertinent.
theme magazine works
the _______ issue
the _______ issue
the _______ issue
sorta like having a guest editor every time around
i agree that the name goes
i also think we should get that out of the way now before we go too far
it means that something would have to be done about the wiki which sucks
to be honest - it would be cool to be in a situation where we could frequently change the name or the title of whatever we are doing
it should reflect the ability to change our own minds, shape shift, welcome new things, slip out of rigid definitions
some sort of unsociety or disorganization
i suggest
the _fukt__ issue (everything is fucked)
the _whatnow__ issue (what now?!)
the _anniversary__ issue (cause by then it'll be wayy into the future and time for some celebration we got that far)
man
i really like the sound of a fukt issue
and the follow up being a 'what to do now' issue is dope
i propose #3 be 'HOLY SHIT WE ARE STILL FUKT!!!1!11!'
(sidenote: there could have been coffee on my shiny new TFT for that #3 remark)
Quote from: LHX on March 07, 2007, 05:35:03 PMit means that something would have to be done about the wiki which sucks
the important thing about the wiki is that it should become some kind of collection basket for incoming stuff, to be sorted out, edited, and put into some other media later.
it's not so much something for other people to look at, as well something to keep all our stuff.
like some of the people on this board probably already do, have a folder on their HD for saving "the good bits", the wiki should be like that, only for the entire community of us.
in other words, it doesn't really matter what kind of logo or name is slapped on it.
at least, this was the function i had in mind for a wiki, not a publication tool but more a collaboration/collection tool.
Another thing about BIP?
My buddy said "Yeah, that Phillip K. Dick stuff? I read it."
Just because the name and concept were stolen from Dick doesn't really make this Dick stuff, right?
So at first glance it looks like a sci-fi forum.
I've never read VALIS. For all I know all this stuff could be straight out of the book.
I just thought you guys liked the catchy metaphor.
We do like the image.
It's not PKD stuff.
It's all my fault.
Stand by for a new thread concerning this.
I figured that.
I'm just saying that's how it comes off to some n00bs.
Seems like it's brainstorming time, title wise.
I don't understand everyone else's point of view on this name issue. What is the real reason that all of a sudden everyone wants to change it. Does it really matter what the fuck it is called? Give each issue a different name, not like the theme issues, actually give each issue a different layout and feel, with a different name. The project itself can be called BIP, or not have a name.
For the type of topics you want to discuss everyone seems stuck in the black iron prison of "Black Iron Prison", or rather that the name matters. If the material is good it doesn't matter what it is called.
I propose the name "On a Scale From One to Gay..."
ryg, you also seem to be conflating separate issues.
One issue is what to call a potential publication.
Another is the possibility of renaming the "Black Iron Prison" metaphor itself, as it has little to nothing to do with PKD.
el minnow,
Thanks for that, you are correct, and my dumb ass missed that.
rygD
Proposed title:
How to Survive the Black Iron Prison: A field User's Guide
1) keeps the spirit of the original title but mututes it so people needing to change it for changes skae are happy.
2) indicates a slightly hopefull premise and thus makes some of the negativiety in the contnent writing seem more tongue in cheek, which was my big gripe (though even then, I'd still recomend reworking a few areas).
3)Is assanine (and it should be).
4)(imo)Represents the actual mission of the book, to help one understand their own limitations and make a life mission of expanding the walls, breaking them down and building up new ones... to raise awareness of what we are actually doing so that we can take a more active role in our own lives. It is impossible to escape BIP, but you can rearrange it, be an agent of change per se. After reading a lot of the BIP material (the original pamphlet, and some forum and wiki) I really think that this actually represents the mission accopmlished by the BIP VS what the whatever original mission was (to include it as some sort of extentsion of the PD).
As writing is old hat for me I'd have to say that when titleing, only do so when done though. This way you can actually represent what it is presented as a whole rather than box yourself in to a confined space of writing. Instead this gives you the ability to roam where you need to with the work instead of try and conform to some preset doctrine you have in your psyche.
On deciding where to go next?
I think it needs more artwork. Pictures are good, they save words and attract retards, which is of course the target audience. People who are too dumb to come across this stuff on their own and need a hitch in their get along.
More articles, condense what is in the wiki into more readable article oriented format as opposed to just lists of quotes, instead demonstrate these quotes in the articles so that they become self evident truths. be sure to "cross of the lines that don't make no sense" (k. Cobain) so that the message is clear enough for someone with a min. IQ of 100 to grasp. I'd like to see more articles leading in the direction of how deal with the pesimistic view that you are stuck in a prison that you can't escape, so we're trapped, how do we get out if there is no getting out? What can we do to make this a better place for our own ends? I'd like to see that done in a rather light hearted manner.
get writing? Umm, ok, who is in charge of this thing to assign me a topic? what do other people think we need to add?
part 4 is something I have no control over
part 5 is contained herein
Quote from: Ambassador KAOS on March 24, 2007, 09:42:01 PMAfter reading a lot of the BIP material (the original pamphlet, and some forum and wiki)
yeeaay people read the wiki!
mr KAOS, if you feel like contributing, there's loads more of "forum" (and i'd say pamphlet as well) to be copied to the wiki, so give the word and someone'll set you up the account for editing etc
QuoteOn deciding where to go next?
I think it needs more artwork. Pictures are good
LHX made diagrams, some other people did too.
one can easily upload images to the wiki, then write a little accompanying text with it, link it to relevant articles, et voila, more content.
QuoteMore articles, condense what is in the wiki into more readable article oriented format as opposed to just lists of quotes, instead demonstrate these quotes in the articles so that they become self evident truths.
good plan. my plan for now was just to save as much as possible of the writings up to now to that wiki, in order to pin them down in a slightly more convenient format than simply scattered gems of wisdom throughout threads on a forum, and save the formatting and ordening for later--i can get distracted to small details very quickly (seconds to minutes) so i gotta be a bit hard on myself, but if you wanna format and order the stuff, certainly!
Quoteget writing? Umm, ok, who is in charge of this thing to assign me a topic? what do other people think we need to add?
nobody is in charge (duh :) ) and i sometimes play the role of reminder of people there's a wiki. Synaptyx is the guy that hosts that place, and can set you up an account, give him a PM.
topic you must find for yourself i think, but pretty much anything goes. just a hint, try to keep it a bit short and concise, people don't have attention spans ANY MORE
Quote from: triple zero on March 25, 2007, 11:18:44 AM
Quote from: Ambassador KAOS on March 24, 2007, 09:42:01 PMAfter reading a lot of the BIP material (the original pamphlet, and some forum and wiki)
topic you must find for yourself i think, but pretty much anything goes. just a hint, try to keep it a bit short and concise, people don't have attention spans ANY MORE
...huh?
i sorta forgot what i meant by the last two words.
just go with it :)
I think the AK's proposed title works, in the sense that sure, we can point out the BIP, but that's just a noun.
By calling it "How to Survive the BIP", or "Living inside the BIP", or whatever, we're being inclusive, and it appears helpful (although, we know all about "appearences", don't we?).
Just my $0.02.
also puts the reader on the 'us' side of the 'them and us' divide
gets my vote
I know I haven't really been a part of any of this, so take it for what its worth, but what if you just dropped the "Black Iron" part and called it the Prison? Same metaphor, less plagiarism.
It's got less zing, I admit it . . . so, I don't know . . .
See: Renaming thread (fiasco)
Ahhh - gotcha.
As you can see we already spent two months deciding to leave the name alone.
If you think you can win hearts and minds, go for it.
But it looks like BIP stuck.
Just to be cantankerous, I call it the Phillip K Dick Iron Prison
:p
(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a95/discordman/pkdironprison.jpg)
(it's also a link!)
(http://www.poee.co.uk/bip/index.php?title=Special:Random)
Plus, Syn already paid for the wiki page, so...
Quote from: Professor Cramulus on March 26, 2007, 03:02:54 PM
Just to be cantankerous, I call it the Phillip K Dick Iron Prison
:lulz:
I shall say no more.