This thread is for discussion about the magazine we've been talking about all week. Even if our idea hasn't coalesced into something solid yet, we have a LOT of good discussion and good energy. I do feel we're capable of producing something that we'd all enjoy, and by proxy other Discordians would enjoy. So let's have at it in ernest!
I'm volunteering to step into an editor position. I don't want to do it alone - one or two more co-editors (at most) are necessary so that if I get IRL busy/distracted/high on power/completely batshit, the project won't get left behind.
All the stuff is still in the discussion phase, so feel free to inject your hot steamy thoughts wherever you'd like into this thread's body.
[Discordia Magazine Title](title pending)
Mission statement:Discord Magazine seeks to prove that Discordia is alive and well. It's is a sampling of what's going on right now in Discordian culture. It will examine current trends and themes present in the Discordian 'stream.
Target Audience:Discordians. It would be nice if other people could pick up an issue and enjoy it as well, but for the most part the magazine is "for Discordians by Discordians"
Article Brainstorm List
- Robert Anton Wilson's Funeral - there was a ceremony for him a few weeks ago in California. So far, there's been no coverage of it. We'll talk to some people who were there and report on it.
- Threadjack: A column about Discordians on the internet. One idea I had would be to interview moderators of the major Discordian forums and get them to compare / contrast their boards
- Movie Review: The Number 23
- Eris vs Wikipedia: The Wikipedia entry on Discordian Works has stirred up a lot of controversy recently. In short: because Discordia is so decentralized, and no one / everyone is an "authority", the editors are having trouble figuring out which books should go in the wiki entry and which books are just crap some guy's published. Reverend Uncle BadTouch has been in the front lines of this battle, it'd probably be nice to get some words from him.
- Cabal Spotlight: a column in which we'll look at a real-life Discordian cabal and see what they're all about
- Sticking Apart: A column in which two Discordians argue with each other about some topic
- The Flying Spaghetti Monster: an article which canonizes our new patron saint. It's about time some Discordians made some sort of "official" notice that he's in our pantheon now
- Jake Contest - ? I dunno, sounds like a cool idea. We could get Discordians from various other factions to compete or something
- Tract Marks - Discordian lit review.. this might be merged with the Wikipedia article
- The Pulpit - a section in which we'll publish 2-4 rants, sermons, or essays written by honest-to-goddess Discordians. This is the part of the mag where we're allowed to be all preachy grabass
What's the magazine going to be called? here's a few suggestions:
- Discordja Magazine - KISS
- Eristocracy
- Eristocracy Now! - sounds like a political mag, but the Discordians will get it
- The Even Greater Poop - a reference to the Greater Poop, a fictional (?) magazine in the principia
What we need now:People to sign up to write the above articles. If you want to take one, call dibbs so we don't get five people writing movie reviews. These things should be roughly 2000 - 4000 words. Less is okay too. Whatever we decide on as the "cover" article can be longer.
The above articles are just suggestions - if you have a great idea for an article, Go For It
We need someone to do layout and design
We need someone to find / make graphics and images
Although we'll surely disagree about a lot of stuff, we need to make sure we're all basically on the same page... the collective intelligence of this forum is much greater than the sum of its parts.
let's not talk about funding and actually printing it until we have some substance. I expect issue 1 will be in PDF only unless some crazy magic happens.
Thanks, this should keep me from getting mixed up.
edits:
Quote from: Professor Cramulus on March 08, 2007, 03:22:25 PM
[Discordia Magazine Title]
(title pending)
Mission statement:
Discord Magazine seeks provide intense visuals with sharp humor and to encourage critical thinking wherever possible
Target Audience:
1 - People who already have a lean toward thinking critically but don't know anybody else who does (this seems to be a fairly decent market)
2 - People who like to look at stuff
3 - The Adult Swim audience
4 - Philosophers who forgot about the barstool
Article Brainstorm List
- The Pulpit - a section in which we'll publish 2-4 rants, sermons, or essays written by whoever. This is the part of the mag where we're allowed to be all preachy grabass
- Sticking Apart: A column in which Discordians argue with each other about some topic
- Robert Anton Wilson's Funeral - there was a ceremony for him a few weeks ago in California. So far, there's been no coverage of it. We'll talk to some people who were there and report on it.
- Threadjack: A column about forums
What we need now:
People to sign up to write the above articles. If you want to take one, call dibbs so we don't get five people writing movie reviews. These things should be roughly 2000 - 4000 words. Less is okay too. Whatever we decide on as the "cover" article can be longer.
The above articles are just suggestions - if you have a great idea for an article, Go For It
We need someone to do layout and design
We need someone to find / make graphics and images
Although we'll surely disagree about a lot of stuff, we need to make sure we're all basically on the same page... the collective intelligence of this forum is much greater than the sum of its parts.
let's not talk about funding and actually printing it until we have some substance. I expect issue 1 will be in PDF only unless some crazy magic happens.
i really dont have much desire to focus on communicating with people who focus on discordia
i just want to provide support and encouragement for people who are restless on this planet - and a entertaining diversion if possible
1. magazine should not be "the Vatican Daily" for discordians. religious publications make me sick. references to obscure discordian bullshit is great, as long as there are also references to other obscure bullshit that has nothing (directly) to do with discordia. the magazine should frame the mindset that discordians (usually) have, but not the "Discordian Mindset."
2. discontinued.
yea the RAW funeral is just about as far as we can go with the "religious" angle, and even then i wonder if it's that important. because it won't be interesting to read for non-discordians.
> These things should be roughly 2000 - 4000 words.
i would prefer shorter articles of about 1000 words, real bitesize stuff. except for the big rants. they can be long, but for most of the other things we want to say, we can be concise right?
attention span, short.
Quote from: vexati0n on March 08, 2007, 05:02:45 PM
1. magazine should not be "the Vatican Daily" for discordians. religious publications make me sick.  references to obscure discordian bullshit is great, as long as there are also references to other obscure bullshit that has nothing (directly) to do with discordia.  the magazine should frame the mindset that discordians (usually) have, but not the "Discordian Mindset."
2. discontinued.
We should still call it "The Vatican Daily".
i concur.
I don't think it's a bad idea...but Vex is right, it needs to be less of a religious publication, but masked as one could get us Federal backing. :lulz:
How mainstream would this be?
Or, it could sound like a religious zine, look like a political one, but actually be a porn one.
First cover article's title "FUCK BUSH!".
as far as I can tell
For various reasons, a lot of the initial energy towards this project seems to have defocused. I'm still interested in working on this magazine, or whatever it becomes through discussion, but I think it needs more interested parties (people to write or find columns, art, etc).
It may be easier to work on if we pick a scope that we all agree on (yeah right). I still like the idea of writing a magazine for Discordians which also has appeal to non-Discordians, but we seem fragmented on that. I'm basically cool with whatever we decide, if we decide on anything at all.
Do you guys think this project is worth continuing? I'm also cool with it if we drop it - I just hate to see good ideas and good energy go to waste.
Welcome to PD.com, Prof.
I have a suggestion: Most of this stuff is Kopyleft, so you can grab what you want (a list of permissions is at the Propaganda subforum), and put it together yourself, for the initial issue. If it flies, then you'll probably attract one or two more people per issue.
LMNO
-knows that DIY is singular for a reason.
Print really doesn't float my boat. Books I don't mind but as far as I'm concerned magazines have been superceded by multimedia delivery systems.
I don't mind if you want to use something I've written or shopped but it's hard for me to get excited about this whole deal. If there was a discordian magazine I wouldn't buy it. If they had a website I might use that.
best way to create an avalanche is to throw a snowball down the mountain
(urrrgh so trite is makes me ill, but basically "what LMNO said")
Quote from: SillyCybin on March 12, 2007, 03:59:56 PM
Print really doesn't float my boat. Books I don't mind but as far as I'm concerned magazines have been superceded by multimedia delivery systems.
I don't mind if you want to use something I've written or shopped but it's hard for me to get excited about this whole deal. If there was a discordian magazine I wouldn't buy it. If they had a website I might use that.
multimedia !> magazines.
why?
because.
every asshole can have a website. it's nothing special in popular mythos. you get a page wherever, you put whatever on it, people don't care. even people who might care don't care because your website is going to be god-awful ugly (even if it's professionally-made) to at least 60% of the people who see it. websites are a dime a dozen. your potential audience is practically limitless, but they hardly ever become anything BUT 'potential.'
on the other hand, a magazine says either "we have the know-how to produce a tangible publication that you can keep and show to other people without breaking out the computer," or, "we convinced some IMPORTANT people that what we have to say is worth listening to." even if it isn't true, and goddess knows it isn't (considering all the worthless rags out there), the popular misconception is that a tangible publication full of complete bullshit is by definition more important than a website full of relevant information.
Quote from: Professor Cramulus on March 12, 2007, 03:52:42 PM
It may be easier to work on if we pick a scope that we all agree on (yeah right). I still like the idea of writing a magazine for Discordians which also has appeal to non-Discordians, but we seem fragmented on that. I'm basically cool with whatever we decide, if we decide on anything at all.
Ok, I think one option might be to have a few articles with different viewpoints if there are any opinion based pieces. Basically a return to the theme issue idea, even though theme issues sorta suck. Most people want variety, and if they want to read all about one subject they read a book on it.
Magazine?
I think it would be pertinent to Make it BIP focused rather than Discordian focused.
A) it's an established and devloped idea
D) there is a plethora of material already written awaiting publication
R) there is a ton of unpollished gems that can be ressurected at a moments notice to fill in any gaps for an issue
Q) People in the forum are already on the BIP train and finding fresh material will be easy
ASS) Doing other discordian related articles like the funeral coverage would be doable as they are related topics as BIP is indeed launched from discordianism.
$) Focus on one thing at a time or nothing gets done. As far as I know the BIP isn't finished and has been in progress for how long? It's big enough to warrant a mag by now, I would think, rather than a single pamphlet publication, otherwise valuable nonsense might get cut and cheapen it.
Questions:
Is this online only? If not where's the funding? getting to brass tax will make planning the thing easier. If there is no money, it's an online mag.
If there is money the funders need to discuss what needs to appear.
What is needed:
Chief of Staff, Editor(s), writers, Art Director, Artists, distributors.
Who will do what and for how long?
Regulation? quarterly? monthly?
what other questions can be asked?
the thing will be published bi-weekly.
it will be an online publication at first, but through subtle deception and outright trickery of the masses*, we will soon have enough cash to make it a news stand rag, a made-for-tv movie, and a smash-hit album performed by the Traveling Willburys or Molly Hatchet (whoever's still alive and/or cheaper).
*for information on how to make this happen, contact your local branch of Globalist National and inquire about the Rapture Raffle program.
Quote from: rygD on March 13, 2007, 08:58:16 AM
Quote from: Professor Cramulus on March 12, 2007, 03:52:42 PM
It may be easier to work on if we pick a scope that we all agree on (yeah right). I still like the idea of writing a magazine for Discordians which also has appeal to non-Discordians, but we seem fragmented on that. I'm basically cool with whatever we decide, if we decide on anything at all.
Ok, I think one option might be to have a few articles with different viewpoints if there are any opinion based pieces. Basically a return to the theme issue idea, even though theme issues sorta suck. Most people want variety, and if they want to read all about one subject they read a book on it.
Agreed :ECH:
I've been really hot on the magazine idea. When we were all brainstorming, people seemed to be excited about it too. Once the ideas started to concrete there was a widespread interest lost. I figured I'd get the project rolling by writing some text.
Two weeks ago, I did some research and found the names of six or seven people who were at Robert Anton Wilson's funeral / cosmic meme-orial. I e-mailed them asking if they'd like to be interviewed and got only one reply. People seemed to be really busy. Et cetera.
I'm still interested in editing / working on a magazine project, but it needed more juice. Earlier in this thread I suggested that what we need is:
First: a concrete plan for what the magazine's about. Some people wanted a Discordian magazine and some wanted a BIP magazine. Some wanted the target audience to be the general public with Discordian undertones, some wanted to specifically target Discordians.
Second: We needed some people to volunteer up articles. We need an art / layout editor with pdf skillz.
I predict that the project will advance once we have four or five people total who are interested in putting some motion into it. (our goal was to have 20 pages of articles... so that would be about four or five pages per person - totally managable) At the moment I'm not sure if there's any interest 'cause the discussion's been dead for a bit.
But that's the nature of these projects, it seems.
i say we all just come up with whatever strikes us, who cares what it's about (if anything), print it out, cut it up, glue it back together, scan it, make a PDF, and publish it.
make it practically illegible, mostly full of filler (that's apparently what sells these days), and avoid the pitfalls of:
--too much emo
--bad haircuts
--bad artschool-chic graphic design
too much "here's what we're doing and here's how" is going to strangle the bejeesus out of anything a bunch of discordians ever dream up, even if it sounds like a good idea at the time.
always have no plan. that's just advice, though, not direction.
Quote from: vexati0n on March 26, 2007, 04:10:22 PM
always have no plan. that's just advice, though, not direction.
Good
plan advice!
agreed, let people write what they will, that way they will write. I think having it as a BIP based thing would be best though, for reasons stated above, but whatever.
I recomend if you are going to run this thing that you ask people to write up an article. First ask them what they want to write about, encourage and develop the idea with them. Set a deadline. Collect.
Put the most interesting piece (from a media standpoint) on the cover. Send orders to art director for layout and voila it's done. Email the fucker. The End. Next issue.
Before long you'll have people approaching you with ideas for articles or finished articles and now all you need to do is run spell check. Things get easier with experience.
Next get an intern to do your job for you and give you head. Buy a cigaar.
I'll vollunteer to write an article. I'll also vollunteer to help out where I can when asked for specific tasks.
Where I can meaning specifically where I am willing and able without snipping my own nuts and going crazy over it.
Quote from: Ambassador KAOS on March 26, 2007, 05:00:52 PM
I'll vollunteer to write an article. I'll also vollunteer to help out where I can when asked for specific tasks.
Berry good! Check out the original post for some article suggestions. Or come up with your own.
what did LMNO say earlier? easiest way to start an avalanche is to throw a snowball?
Quote from: Professor Cramulus on March 26, 2007, 05:25:08 PM
Quote from: Ambassador KAOS on March 26, 2007, 05:00:52 PM
I'll vollunteer to write an article. I'll also vollunteer to help out where I can when asked for specific tasks.
Berry good! Check out the original post for some article suggestions. Or come up with your own.
what did LMNO say earlier? easiest way to start an avalanche is to throw a snowball?
I think some important things to establish for the first article would be to address a brief explantion and most common noob questions about what the mag represents, how it got started and why it exists. I really think that would be a necessary editorial for the intro to the first issue.
Being that I keep pointing to the BIP as a need to be covered with little backing I think I'll attempt to do an article on it. Possibly an intro and an interview with the the people who began the project. Who would those people be?
I asked before who was in charge of the thing and/or who created it but I heard resounding chorus of "not I!"
.
Anyone got a straight answer on this?
It was teh j00s
(nope - no straight answers here - try asking LMNO)
Definately teh j00s.
LMNO
-j00 lover.
Come on, at least he's trying.
Throw the dog a bone
If I recall, I think I wrote the original BIP essay. But it was more or less the "BIP moment", where everyone pretty much had the same kind of idea at the same time.
At the risk of sounding pretentious, Here are the people who I think spoke about it first:
Me
LHX
Cain
ECH
Triple Zero
RWHN
I know there are more, but I can't recall.
the PD06 era
Quote from: LMNO on March 26, 2007, 06:30:06 PM
If I recall, I think I wrote the original BIP essay. But it was more or less the "BIP moment", where everyone pretty much had the same kind of idea at the same time.
At the risk of sounding pretentious, Here are the people who I think spoke about it first:
Me
LHX
Cain
ECH
Triple Zero
RWHN
I know there are more, but I can't recall.
Next point, which of these are willing and able to be subjected to interviews.
Preemptive preamble will resemble something like this:
"It is duely noted that those interviewed cannot be held legally morally or otherwise accountable for their responses as they are likely to change their minds, change the facts and intentionally subvert their own logics. Plus they're miserable bastards with CRS. That being said..."
DON'T BE A HOT POCKET! GIVE AN INTERVIEW!
Also, idea for title since i haven't seen a post that indicated a deffinent one...
PrincipiaDiscordia.com
Yes, it's teh ghey. Yes, there are obvious positive and negative aspects to doing so. I still think it's always best to pull a spade when naming something and as far as I know: who works on it is here, content comes from and is related to here and it automatically vallidates whatever goes in it based on that principle whether the message is right, wrong or retarded.
The website was how we all got here as far as I know, so it sounds kinky to me.
That being said, the ideas presented shouldn't be forum rips but actual pieces from the authors on the site and be about topics that they feel need covering.
As in all circumstances a vote against should incude an option you feel is better. :vom:
If you want to interview me, go ahead, but don't expect madgyieeiyqckhe.
Quote from: LMNO on March 26, 2007, 07:16:08 PM
If you want to interview me, go ahead, but don't expect madgyieeiyqckhe.
that word gets longer every time I read it.
I'll work up some questions but I'll need some more time to review the material. Pls post some links you think are pertinent(ie contain best/ most relavent articles). Meatspinner is certainly relavent, but I'll have to pass on it this time.
The original BIP pamphlet, the Machine,Ñ¢ pamphlet, and the "Shit from back in the day" thread are all good starts.
how about you post a list of questions, everybody who sees fit answers them, and you pick out of those the most interesting answers, and then make up some other persona who said it all
i suggest RWHLMN00ECHXain
Sounds good.
Quote from: triple zero on March 26, 2007, 07:59:32 PM
how about you post a list of questions, everybody who sees fit answers them, and you pick out of those the most interesting answers, and then make up some other persona who said it all
i suggest RWHLMN00ECHXain
Good idea, plus this give me more artistic liscence and thus there is more fun to be had. :taco:
Lulz is the Lail, Lulz under Lol.
I've got a working idea for how to run this story but I need a little bit of data beyond the posts above.
Specifically being:
What is HIMEOBS?
I know what it stands for but I need to know what the mission statement was and if it was ever anything more than a fraternity of reg. forum users.
Sorry, you have to be a Level 3 user to access that information.
Methinks yuo dig too deeply young padawan.
Best stick to PD/BIP
Quote from: SillyCybin on March 26, 2007, 08:36:10 PM
Methinks yuo dig too deeply young padawan.
Best stick to PD/BIP
I will uncover the truth. There will be much cheezewhiz lost before this is over...
anyone wanna throw me a bone?
If there's one thing we don't talk about, or would want to be interviewed about, it's HIMEOBS.
(http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i312/P3nT4gR4m/BigDigger.jpg)
I'm getting the sense that there is some bad blood with himeobs since it was declared dead in a thread and no one wants to talk about it.
Or maybe it's super secret handshake club.
It still works with the reference either way. I don't even need to know about it I guess... but it would help some. Especially if I knew which of these it was so I could spin the article in that direction.
I think it's safe to say you're barking up the wrong tree.
Prolly best desist before yuor internets are destroyed
if you know anything about HIMEOBS, you know too much.
People do not write articles about HIMEOBS.
In Soviet Russia, HIMEOBS writes articles about YUO!
Fuck it, too much hassle, I'll come up with something else.
EDIT
actually I lied. Couldn't come up with a better idea so I'm sticking with the original. I'll post more on it after some sleep.
I was planning on starting the interview process for this this weekend but that is likely going to be impossible with the current ammount of heat I'm generating.
I'll jump back on this asap.
:argh!:
Yuo must be doing this on purpose :troll:
Quote from: Ambassador KAOS on March 31, 2007, 10:35:19 AM
I was planning on starting the interview process for this this weekend but that is likely going to be impossible with the current ammount of heat I'm generating.
I'll jump back on this asap.
yah we have a thing about pretentious sock fuckers
Just thinking....I've been over looking at how Dionysus Unemployed are working on getting their message around online and I think we can probably appropriate their model for our own.
http://www.dionysusunemployed.net/content/index.php if you want a look.
Creating a multi-user typepad style blog is not hard (Typepad looks far more polished and professional than most other free blogs out there), in fact I'm sure if we ask Syn we may even be able to host it at blackironprison.com (if we move the Wiki off into a subdirectory), but lets not get ahead of ourselves just yet.
In addition to a blog style site with multiple contributors with various ideas, once every 3 months or so a Magazine would not be hard to throw together. PDFing documents is easy and we have a couple of talented artists, plus I have found an excellent and reliable free hosting system, should we not make them downloadable directly from POEE or wherever.
However, we're going to have to come up with some decent ideas.
1. A site name or blog title. We could use BIP but as you know, I feel its too limiting and if we stuck only within that theme, then there would be little content. Something that encompasses the whole ethos of what we are attempting here.
2. People who want to get involved. Signing up at blogger is easy enough, but I suggest having an editor or two to maintain overall production control.
3. Decide on things as a group of people. This may be tricky.
4. Promote the place via method such as Technorati, commenting elsewhere, so on and so forth.
5. Anything else?
at the very least i'll be helping with point 4.
I was thinking, using the Discordian calendar (ZOMG23PINEEEEEELGLUNDETC...) would allow for us to do 5 issues a year, if we followed the RAW style model of Verwirrung, Zweitracht, Unordnung, Beamtenherrschaft and Grummet. Of course, relating each to the topic would also be nice, though not necessarily feasible....
Anyway, its an idea and its out there.
Oh, and once we settle on a name, I can try and grab an email version of it via gmail. I think a group account will be fine, so long as nothing but spam is deleted. That gives us the chance to leave notes for each other etc as well as deal with any mail or offers of help (or hate) as a group too.
hm i like that idea!
btw, did you know "Grummet" (if you spell it that way, it's a real obscure german word) actually has the secondary meaning of "aftermath", meaning "second reaping" (of the crop)?
Quote from: Cain on April 21, 2007, 04:06:38 PMOh, and once we settle on a name, I can try and grab an email version of it via gmail. I think a group account will be fine, so long as nothing but spam is deleted. That gives us the chance to leave notes for each other etc as well as deal with any mail or offers of help (or hate) as a group too.
it might be worth checking out Google Docs (http://docs.google.com/) for this. it's a beta online word processor kind of thing that specifically allows for collaborative work. you can share it everybody with their own google account. i haven't tested it myself yet (cause it doesn't support Opera yet) but i've heard good things about it.
According to RAW, the primary meaning is that of Aftermath. Unless I'm understanding you wrong here. What did you think it meant?
I had a quick look at Google docs. Seems interesting, but since we want an email for the site anyway, it might be overly complex. I'll see what everyone else says though.
"aftermath (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/aftermath)" has a second obsolete meaning in english:
aftermath (plural aftermaths)
(obsolete) A second mowing; the grass which grows after the first crop of hay in the same season.
the German word "Grummet" has (afaik) only this meaning, and not the usual meaning of "that which happens after".
Oh, I see. How odd. Still, it does translate, in an odd way...I could probably find my German-English dictionary and see if there is anything better, but I doubt there is, somehow...
I don't know how much I could contribute from the writing side but I am interested in helping.
Why not call the blog "aftermath"? Since that seems to be the next age we're heading towards.
Or maybe "Beamtenherrschaft", since that seems to be where we are now.
I'll check availability.
Aftermath is taken, for the domain. I'm hesitant about using the German form, simply for the look of it.
Ah. Point.
Would any synonyms have the same feel?
aftereffect, alternation, causatum, chain, close, closing, conclusion, consecution, consequence, continuation, development, effect, end, ending, epilogue, eventuality, finish, finishing, issue, order, outcome, part two*, payoff, progression, result, row, sequence, sequent, series, spin-off*, termination, train, upshot
Which are all crap.
agitation, anarchism, anarchy, brawl, bustle, chaos, clamor, commotion, complication, convolution, discombobulation*, discord, disorganization, distemper, disturbance, dither, entanglement, fight, flap, fracas, fuss, hubbub, hullabaloo*, imbroglio, insurrection, lawlessness, mayhem, misrule, mob rule*, quarrel, rebellion, revolution, riot, rioting, ruckus, rumpus, static, strike, terrorism, tizzy*, trouble, tumult, turbulence, turmoil, unrest, unruliness, uproar
Some of these have potential, however. Something-insurrection may work well.
How bout The Uproar?
Anyway, as far as contributing I do have experience in magazine editing so I'd be more than happy to help out in that regard, plus contributing some writing as I can.
Of course, all we really need is a snappy and memorizable url. Once we have that, we can call it Aftermath.
Sorry, I only slept 3 hours last night.
I just snagged http://theageofaftermath.wordpress.com
:mittens:
me likey.
Right, those of you interested should sign up to wordpress.com, then PM me with the email you used to sign up. However, we may want to sort out who wants to take a more active role and those who feel like kicking back and being an occasional contributor, because I don't know if I can change your status once you're added.
Cramulus has been added as an author.
Uh, its anyone else actually signing up or what?
http://wordpress.com/signup/
pm on the way.
As above.
Sorry, I'm slightly snappy today. Too little sleep. I just think if we can get the ball rolling and build up momentum, we could go places fairly quickly.
So below :lulz:
Ok, so I'm up, and on.
So, what the hell are we doing with this again?
You know ... stuff. Things. Maybe more.
Signed up as well with PM en route to Cain.
Quote from: LMNO on April 23, 2007, 05:37:10 PM
Ok, so I'm up, and on.
So, what the hell are we doing with this again?
Not having a print magazine, but instead a sort of virtual equivalent. All the contributed material to the site that looks good can towards the pdf magazine download I mentioned
I would just like to point out that nobody takes anybody seriously that has a domain name that's not a .com (without another ".something" in front of it) or at least a .net or .org. The most we could hope for unless we have a "real" domain name is a moderately successful blog, because very few people remember the ".wordpress" part, and if they do, they're likely to think it's a sign that we're financially weak or completely disorganized.
I was going to speak to Syn about using the blackironprison domain name for the blog and having the Wiki in a subdirectory.
Cain, you get mittens that would fit a hill giant for your initiative. I'll get right to work.
Grr! My hands are cold!
/
(http://www.knightrealms.com/Components/Albums/2006-05/Hill_Giant.thumb.jpg)
I think the thing (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=12361.0)I posted in Bing and Bag would make a good inside-cover or inside-back-cover poem.
Commense Issue 1!
Quote from: Professor Cramulus on April 24, 2007, 01:46:14 AM
Cain, you get mittens that would fit a hill giant for your initiative. I'll get right to work.
Grr! My hands are cold!
/
(http://www.knightrealms.com/Components/Albums/2006-05/Hill_Giant.thumb.jpg)
looking for these (http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g213/05136/megamittens.png)?
ok, enough, please continue.
Alright then, what are we gonna put on the site?
I know this was the topic at the start of the thread, but it was lost in the technical details of the last couple of days.
I'm thinking along these lines:
not explicitly Discordian (Discordian themes but not the lingo)
dealing with a number of topics, like the wider use of this BIP forum (so new ways of thinking about old problems, fringe news, differing analysis of current events, reviews of media, other stuff?)
In fact, I'm about to have lunch - give me half an hour to write up some sort of "mission statement/who are we" sort of deal to try and elucidate on this, and then we can argue over it.
Sound good.
Perhaps I can distill some of these debates even further, into one-voice essays.
Cool.
Just so you can see, this is another site that manages to be Discordian without being explicit: http://www.thebeak.org/ However, its a bit less focussed and more relaxed than what we are aiming for, I would think.
::stretches editorial muscles::
I know I'm gonna piss people off with this next round of distillations. Oh well. If they wanna do it themselves, all the text is right here.
Eh, don't worry about it. Besides, nobody wants to read our ramblings unedited. While it may be interesting to us, it would be hard to get someone on the outside to sit down and slug through it all.
And as far as the domain is concerned, I think if we can get the blackironprison domain that would be great. I wonder, is it feasible to get our wiki onto the main wikipedia? I've never tried adding anyting on there. Of course, I suppose the name might give us some trouble.
But, as I commented on the blog I think the key is keeping the wiki as a reference and the wordpress thing as the production venue. The wiki, it seems like, doesn't really need to grow, if anything with the wiki it will be refining and linking to stuff on the blog. At least, that's how I'm seeing it.
Question about editing.
E-Prime, or declarative satements using the "is of identity"?
I find e-prime much easier to read. It disarms a lot of nitpicking.
The above statement appears to me to be correct.
Okie doki.
It seems that E-Prime can be a poor medium for polemics and rants, however.
Yeah, with rants being more assertive and "from the gut" I agree that the original voice should be preserved as much as possible.
Now you're contradicting yourself, you bastard.
Which is it?
Yeah I guess e-prime is probably best suited for expository writing, essays etc. I mean, imagine TGRR's rants all e-primed up.
"Your Bobbie-ass is gonna get what it deserves!"
vs
"In my opinion your Bobbie-ass is gonna get what I think it deserves. "
:lulz:
Quote from: LMNO on April 24, 2007, 03:03:50 PM
Okie doki.
It seems that E-Prime can be a poor medium for polemics and rants, however.
I was agreeing with this statement. I thought you were saying e-prime wouldn't be good for rants but you would use it for the other writings. Perhaps I misunderstood.
Or i did.
Or something.
Anyway, I'll use E-Prime as much as I can.
OK - a quick thing regarding the site - while I personally prefer to run whatever I plan on posting to Aftermath by the people here before I post it there, is there any (in)formal ettiquite for this?
I'm a total, utter newbie to the whole "blog" thing and don't want to just spew forth random crap (although from what I've seen that's really all a blog is), especially since there's plans of doing a pdf thing at intervals. I have the Brand Loyalty thing I posted under the Rants forum saved as a draft on the Aftermath thing, but I don't want to just toss it out there.
Any guidelines for this going forward?
Run it through here first, maybe?
I dunno. I'm having a hard time seeing how this will work while keeping an open and democratic, non-elitist approach.
Given the constraints inherent in creating a magazine, I'm sure we could accept some guidelines from you dude.
It's a bit different in a community, but if we want anything out there, there's going to have to be some kind of procedure for getting it done right and on time.
I'm only going to be an occasional contributor anyway, but I plan to post anything in here first, then submit to the editorial process with an expectation that it will come out looking more "article-y" than like bile spewed all over some poor thread in here. And I'll understand that before I submit anything, so it won't be anything personal against the editor.
Thats just me though
E-prime is fine for analysis, but if you don't like using it (I'm not always prepared to), then don't.
Also, still working on the intro business. Maybe half an hour and I can sort it? I needed to run some errands.
Payne seems to be more understanding than most.
My mind is very bendy.
How about this?
Who are we?
Its safe to say that we are, first and foremost, people who think change is not only possible in this world, but a necessity. We have reached a cultural dead end, where any new values are either quietly co-opted to serve the needs of an elite, or as a false ,Äúchoice,Äù in a society that no longer understands the meaning of the word.
True change is not impossible, but it is deemed dangerous by those who benefit from the way things are now. Subversive and radical ideologies that fail to understand this are doomed to failure as they become part of a larger overall system within society. An idea may be revolutionary for its time, but within 10 years it will have been bastardized and sold on a t-shirt. They become, just like everything else, another resource to be exploited, a lifestyle choice instead of a choice of life.
In the past, we have often witnessed political revolutions, but rarely social ones. A revival of life, with meaning beyond shrill partisan screeching and the bottom line, must be advanced towards. A renaissance, if you will, of modern life. However, this can only arise through understanding of and discrediting the current system.
We are, above all else, neophiles. We seek an uncertain but better future over an unpleasant present. And there is no greater goal than that.
First off, Cain? Mittens, definitely. That makes for a great introduction.
Regarding the posting process, I'm in favor of running things through here before throwing them out to the Aftermath thing. More for editing/tightening up than "no way in hell can you post this". However, since it IS something with which we're trying to reach a broader group of people, some overall process is probably a good idea. Part of that would, by necessity, be an editorial once-over.
I'm cool with that - I'm by no means a professional writer and harbor no illusions as to my skills in that area. I definitely welcome any and all criticism/advice/brutal hacking of material into some decent shape for whatever I write. If we go with a "post your draft here for editing/adjustment" followed by a dialogue as to whether or not it could work in the context of Aftermath, I think that could work to keep the openness while still allowing some overall cohesion.
Maybe throw a new forum up to deal specifically with this in order to keep everything central and differentiated from the rest of the fun?
Quote from: Cain on April 24, 2007, 06:02:04 PM
How about this?
Who are we?
Its safe to say that we are, first and foremost, people who think change is not only possible in this world, but a necessity. We have reached a cultural dead end, where any new values are either quietly co-opted to serve the needs of an elite, or as a false “choice” in a society that no longer understands the meaning of the word.
True change is not impossible, but it is deemed dangerous by those who benefit from the way things are now. Subversive and radical ideologies that fail to understand this are doomed to failure as they become part of a larger overall system within society. An idea may be revolutionary for its time, but within 10 years it will have been bastardized and sold on a t-shirt. They become, just like everything else, another resource to be exploited, a lifestyle choice instead of a choice of life.
In the past, we have often witnessed political revolutions, but rarely social ones. A revival of life, with meaning beyond shrill partisan screeching and the bottom line, must be advanced towards. A renaissance, if you will, of modern life. However, this can only arise through understanding of and discrediting the current system.
We are, above all else, neophiles. We seek an uncertain but better future over an unpleasant present. And there is no greater goal than that.
Thats very concise. Its simple, but doesn't talk down to the reader. I'm for it.
I could set up a subforum in here, if you wanted. Or we could have a thread in propaganda (since that is what this is, in a way).
Also thanks, but if anyone does want to tweak that, throw out some suggestions.
I like it, especially the forward/positive element at the end.
Also, here's an example of what I was talking about re: editing.
ARCHITECTURE.
-By various contributers
This is in regard to the metaphor of the Black Iron Prison. It attempts to expand on the metaphor by describing the things of which it is made. Please keep in mind that this is merely a creative way of explaining certain elements in perception, and in no way describes something that is ,Äúreally,Äù there.
The exterior walls of the BIP seem to be put in place by our existence as humans. As previously stated, our perceptions seem to be limited by the relatively narrow ranges of our physical senses, and by the fact that our brains can only process so much information at a given time. Even when we try to expand our sensory ranges by building and using mechanical devices, it's very difficult for us to observe both those expanded ranges and our "natural" ranges - we have to focus our attention on what's under the microscope and can't necessarily notice the fire that just caught in the far corner of the laboratory. This is why we can never fully escape the Black Iron Prison - we either don't have the sensory perception, or we don't have the mental processing power. If we try to expand both at once, we end up frying our brains with data overload. None can look upon the face of God and live.
However, the BIP seems to be chock full of interior walls, and it,Äôs possible we can smash those to our heart's content because we're the ones who put them there, or who allowed them to be put there (which is almost the same thing). Smashing those walls won,Äôt change the fact that we're in prison, but it gives us a little more wiggle room.
One of the troubles in wall-smashing, though, is that many of us knock down a wall, then use those same bricks to build a new and different wall. One can liken this to a common experience: Many guitarists admire Jimi Hendrix for being innovative, so they try to diligently copy everything he had already done, thinking they are somehow better for it. It,Äôs as if Hendrix had smashed a wall, and these guitarists, by emulating and imitating him, were very meticulously picking up the bricks and building a new wall.
However, to extend the metaphor even further, if you knock down too many walls without rebuilding at least one or two somewhere else, do you risk collapsing the ceiling on yourself and going completely mad? And is it somehow less offensive to live with walls that you have built, since you chose to have them there and you will probably remain aware of their existence? This seems to be the case. Awareness of what you're doing can be liberation.
You can also rip down walls and use the material to help solidify your foundation. There is some benefit to be had from viewing things from a different perspective. Tearing down a wall does indeed bring rubble, and what do you do with it? Choosing what to build where seems to be an important step in this process. We can get very excited about destroying limiting elements in ourselves, but if we don,Äôt choose where the new walls are built, we seem to be relinquishing our freedom.
Some might ask, ,ÄúBut what if we are comfortable with our walls?,Äù To be true, as said above, it appears we cannot knock these walls down without risking madness. How can one advocate for destruction of the walls when the alternative is to be unable to function?
The answer appears to rest upon the idea of balance. Much the same as how even the intuitive poetry of ee cummings still relies on the ordered rules of language, the disorder of the experiential Universe is organized by the pattern-making processes of the brain. When one breaks down all their walls, they have removed all structures that can be controlled. Essentially, all internal aspects of reality have been obliterated. In order to function in an external reality, one needs to rebuild, the difference being that one can choose how the patterns can be understood.
Wow! I like that edit. I may print that off as is and show it around a bit.
With regards to a seperate area for Aftermath, a thread in Prop would be good. After all, we must maintain the tidiness!
~~~Payne: Feeling a bit more like actually contributing content today.
Great work LMNO. I especially like the bit about Jimi Hendrix... I think a lot of the BIP writing is very metaphor-dense and really needs concrete examples like that to make it applicable.
I think a child board or something wouldn't be a bad idea, if only because having a dedicated forum would give the snowball room to turn into an avalanche. It also evokes the idea of starting fresh.
As far as editorial process goes...
I'm under the impression that the blog is a sort of transition space. As Cain said, we're eventually going to have a PDF which compiles all this stuff together into a distributable booklet. That magazine-ish thing is the end-game product.
So don't feel too hesitant about posting to the blog. There'll be time for another round of revisions before we go to "print".
At this point its important to learn from the feedback we gathered about the BIP pamphlet. Though this magazine seems to be aimed at social change (???), we should take care to not make it 100% fire and brimstone. If we want to appeal to a broad audience, it does need some humor and silliness. The darkness is perfectly fine in moderation. I'd like to include my 23 Things While You Wait pamphlet as an attempt to balance it all light and sassy.
If we do a child board, we should get a thread for artwork, a thread for one-liners and quotes, those sorts of of space-filler things.
I think the Hendrix thing was either Jenne or DJR.
I really need a way to stress that these essays are a group effort, else it looks like I'm a egotistical thunder-stealer.
Or a fucking genius.
Hmmm... let me think about this for a sec.
Yeah I should have put the "great work" and the content-specific compliment in different paragraphs.
I suggest longer, more reasoned posts as well. Don't rant, persuade people instead.
Longer posts take more time, which is good because we have a fair few contributers and updating it more than, say twice a day is unnecessary. Once every 3 days should be the minimum though.
Is the above entry good enough to post?
Or should we start with a more basic explaination of the BIP?
I'm making notes for my first attempt. I think it's as well we have a thread to post to, otherwise I fear the monumental fail.
It's in the Propoganda sub-forum, in O:M.
I don't think we really need to explain the BIP. Its an implicit, unifying theme of the overall work. Apart from what I mentioned above, the only other thing I think we need is to move from the particular to the general and especially look into the conclusions of what we are saying. That will work 100 times better than most ranting, over the net anyway.
Hmm.
The thing is, at least with my own stuff, I tend to build off the original metaphors pretty heavily.
For example, my whole idea that the Machine,Ñ¢ happens when you forget about the BIP, and the CoN is the rationalization of the Machine,Ñ¢.
Yeah, but those mean nothing to someone who isn't already a Discordian. And jargon is on of our enemies, as it leads to a distinctive thought process whereby it becomes very hard to communicate ideas with those who don't already use them.
If our audience is only people who have read the BIP pamphlet, it's a narrow audience indeed. The BIP metaphor is lost on like 99% of Discordians. It's fair to assume familiarity if you're writing a rant for these forums, but for a stand-alone publication, assume that the reader has no idea what you're talking about.
So, you're asking me to write around the metaphors.
Oy.
This is gonna take some time.
The magazine is called "The Black Iron Prison" right?
Straight away the title itself is a question in the mind of the uninitiated - "What the hell is the black iron prison?" They ask.
Best explanation is the content of the magazine itself.
Fuck the spoonfeeding bollix that that relegates any new mag I pick up to the 'trying to be the next big thing' pile. Let the reader ask the question and then continue to ask it. Eventually they will reach a point where either they know what it is or they will ask the question themselves.
If they work it out then we have them for life for that's a feeling of achievement that we gave them. They'll love us for it. They'll love the BIP and subscribe.
Quote from: SillyCybin on April 24, 2007, 08:20:53 PM
The magazine is called "The Black Iron Prison" right?
No, its Aftermath
Ah okay. Bang goes my contribution then.
Upon reflection, I could probably whip up a nice turn of phrase that can easily be substituted in place of the old metaphors.
First off, kudos to the progress. I'm sorry I couldn't contribute much yesterday but I spent the better part of the day in a stuffy room in City Hall.
I like the mission statement. I think something we might want to consider is some sort of diversification. This was something I brought up a month or so ago. Let's say we have 8 or so semi-regular contributors. Would it make sense to see if we could all specialize in something somewhat different? That is, LMNO does the intellectual/philosophical stuff, Cain does the political stuff, BWM does the sciencey stuff, etc. (These are just examples by the way, not suggestions)
I also think once we feel comfortable that we have something ready for dissemination and distribution, outside of the wordpress.com regulars, we should scour the internet for Discordain-esque sites. Compile a database of e-mail addresses, and broadcast the fuck out of the url. This is something, btw, I volunteer to do. Networking is something I have to do IRL so I feel pretty comfortable doing it.
Anyway these are just some thoughts I've had. Oh, and as far as LMNO's editing, I think the by-line of "various contributors" is sufficient. No one knows who we are individually and will have little to no interest in such. It's much cleaner without all of the user/holy names. So, I say go with it.
Okay, I'm done.
I was thinking along similar lines to this, with people going with a general theme/specialization for their own posts/contributions. It will help give a sense of continuity and will also help people from overlapping the same specifics in a given time frame, especially if we really intend to pursue a magazine-style approach.
Part of that involves the reader being able to expect certain things from one issue/update to the next which helps to establish a long-term readership base. Over time, I've come to anticipate specific writers at the various sites I read. Some of them publish at specific intervals (IE once a week), others are a bit more random, but since I know what kinds of insight to expect from them, I constantly check in on the sites to see if they've updated. While I'm there checking for one thing, I take a look around at what else is there and if something seems interesting, I read it, oftentimes adding another writer to keep an eye on.
If it feels disjointed and random (even if it IS discordian :lol:) it wouldn't make anyone think it was something other than a one-off and wouldn't encourage anyone to keep coming back to see what else we've come up with. Since we don't want this to just be a one-shot thing, having regular features with added extras is something we should shoot for IMO.
In a couple of weeks I'll have a lot more time on my hands to play with illustrations, print propaganda, and some web stuff.
I have the resources to launch multiple citywide propaganda campaigns,ÄîI've been itching to do so for a while now. I'm also prepared to distribute propaganda kits to people who aren't rolling in the dough, but, I'd need mailing addresses.
I don't think we should settle for crappy black and white photocopies.
I can get a handful of people a few hundred full color, double-sided, professionally printed postcard sized flyers and full color stickers. For sure. I'm thinking some people in the midwest US, east coast US, Canada, Europeans, all depending on who has the time to propagandize their city during our launch.
Or, if everyone is too paranoid to give me a mailing address, I can just blow up Portland, OR.
I know we're not there yet, but I thought I'd remind people that the offer is still on the table. If we coordinated a cohesive message across cities around the world people would probably start taking us much more seriously. You know our audience and potential contributors are out there, we've just got to find them.
I think you're definitely on the right track, TOG.
Quote from: Netaungrot on April 25, 2007, 09:49:26 PMIf we coordinated a cohesive message across cities around the world people would probably start taking us much more seriously. You know our audience and potential contributors are out there, we've just got to find them.
I just got goosebumps reading that.
See also:
(http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2007/02/mooninite.jpg)
Quote from: Professor Cramulus on April 25, 2007, 09:51:49 PM
Quote from: Netaungrot on April 25, 2007, 09:49:26 PMIf we coordinated a cohesive message across cities around the world people would probably start taking us much more seriously. You know our audience and potential contributors are out there, we've just got to find them.
I just got goosebumps reading that.
See also:
(http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2007/02/mooninite.jpg)
Right? People love the gooseflesh.
not only "people" will notice.
an organization capable of planning, organizing and executing delivery of propaganda in multiple cities around the globe, simultaneously, is going to be noticed by other, less savory, characters. not that that's a bad thing.
TTM,
wonders what happened to Orbital Bombing Monthly...
:lulz:
i still have a hard-on for Orbital Bombing Monthly
Me too.
TTM,
experiencing priapism.
Too much to do and not enough time to do it.
Balls = blue.
Have you tried milking the prostate?
this can lead to bruising and other complications
That's right, I said it. And I sure as "Bob" mean it.
Do you want to know why? I don't care if you do or don't, I'm going to tell you.
I hate your religion because in your opinion "IT'S THE RIGHT ONE!" Prove it. Make me believe beyond a reasonable doubt that your religion is THE right one. Come prepared, and leave the phony faith BS at home. I don't want to hear how I have to Step Out Blindly On Faith. That's a crock. Show me. Have your god come and smite me, or at least have some scotch with me. Better yet, have your god turn water into scotch. Then I'll consider thinking it's the right religion.
Why is humankind so eager to label themselves? Is it an insecurity issue? Is it to "belong"? Some of us here are pagans. Would someone please describe what that term has been destroyed to mean. Some of us are Discordian. No true definition exists. Some are Christian. Do we dare entered that tangled mess? But the particular label isn't what's important. It;s the need for a label at all. Is it simply needed for basic mean communication? If this is true why do so many rally behind a label like it a badge of honor? Uncountable people have died because they have worn the wrong label at the wrong time and in the wrong place.
Back to religion as a whole. This concept has murdered more people that any other thing ever thought of. A CONCEPT. Get it? An unprovable concept that has inspired it's followers to kill, forfeit their own lives, cause acts that have scarred many others. And there is NO SUBSTANCE to it. Why is it not more deeply questioned? How many of you have heard "My <insert religious leader title> told me so, and he/she is my leader and would never lie to me so it has to be true?" Be honest on this one. Is this silly race, humankind, so dependent on being led they will simply accept whatever is told them? Must they blindly believe and follow any order they are given in the name of their religion?
How can one so easily offer up their ability of free thought and action to willfully be controlled by the whims and ideas of someone else? Can you not see the people you are following are human as well? They are not DIVINE, they have no special gift except the ability to plug your ears and blindfold you and get you to like it. You want to nail me to a cross, burn me at the stake, or whatever other unusually cruel and mindless idea you come up with? All I can tell you is bring help, because there's going to be one hell of a fight and I'm not dying alone. Don't expect some mealy meek pansy bullshit from me, I'm going to try to kill you.
So keep your worthless religion far away from me and we'll be fine. I prefer to use my own wits and mind to direct my life.
Back to your sheep pen now, I'm done.
If this fits feel free to edit and use it. I am new to posting rants, so no offense taken if it needs lots of work.
I think thats a little too much proselytizing. We don't want to run off new copies of the BIP do we?
Just a thought.
That's why I asked for input. At this point I really don't know what the projected scope of the magazine will be.
Though, I think that what the big ideas men on this project are planning to put more humour in, as opposed to lightening the tone of rants and stuff.
I'm working on something which isn't really funny either now that I think about it...
The humor is what attracted me to this insanity to begin with. That makes a lot of sense. Thanks, I'll try to work on something with more humor and less rage in it.
Woah! rage is good. Just ask TGRR.
I'm going to post something in a minute that isn't quite ready, but I want to know if I'm heading in the right track. Take a look.
1) i just skimmed the blog a littlebit and i really really think the colourscheme should be changed. simple black/white/gray, with a bright background is going to reach a much larger audience IMO. with a black background people will have immaediately the idea they are on some "underground/counterculture" blog and get crackpot associations. there are lots of high quality creative thinking innovative blogs that get a large userbase with simple standard eas to read dark text on bright background. see for example http://headrush.typepad.com/
2) Net, as soon as you get those full colour flyers, you can PM me for a post address and i will flyer and spread them in the Netherlands. we could also make a fun thread in O:MF for creative ways to spread them.
3) Orbital Monthly = cool title, but "monthly" is something that's never going to happen.
I chose a dark colour for the reasons Maddox gave - a white background is like staring at a lightbulb and its far easier to read on a dark background.
1 - adjust your monitor ;-)
2 - if that's really your concern, better pick a light-greyish background with dark text then. this is indeed easier on the eyes. but IMO the dark background/bright letters pretty much screams "underground crackpot" at me.
also this particular colour combo is actually quite hard reading to me, on my monitor, and i'm tempted to switch off the CSS (my web-fu skillz are endless) and view it in black-on-white Times New Roman default ;-)
more compare:
http://jeremiahgrossman.blogspot.com/
http://ha.ckers.org/
http://www.gnucitizen.org/categories/blog
all three high quality computer/information security weblogs, same topic, completely different feel.
Check it out now. Better?
oh yeah. looks great now!
('xcept now the Fight Club image could use some cropping .. )
this a standard wordpress theme? i think i've seen it before.
Yeah, they all come as part of the package. I'll see what can be done with the image.
Not perfect, but I had to go only by pixel size, not manual resizing.
Hawk, an audience doesn't really want to be attacked. The reason that rant works well with us is because we agree with you. You're preaching to the choir.
As a thought experiment, imagine you're a devout [fill in the blank of something you can actually convice yourself of being for a few minutes]. Now read your rant again. You'll probably find that you recoil from the words, and make the assumption that the guy is an asshat, and reject the arguments.
If we want to lure in the people who don't know what we're about, we have to choose the object of our rage carefully. Make the reader, any reader, agree with you, and then turn up the heat, and make them question themselves.
Precisely. Preaching to the choir is easy. Making your viewpoint even stand critical viewpoints, on the other hand, is very difficult. With every group you have a particular vocabulary. The problem with Discordian vocabulary is that its very similar, superficially, to the normal one, but not in meaning. So essentially you have to split your mind in two, one half allowing you to think like a Discordian and the other translating it for normal people to grasp.
Its not easy, since language frames how we think.
Thanks for the input. Give me a couple of days to allow my dual personality to wake up and I'll do a rewrite.
Plus, we can always leave a trail to here. So they can join the choir and then bathe in our hate AND our humour.
Quote from: LMNO on April 27, 2007, 01:31:18 PM
Hawk, an audience doesn't really want to be attacked. The reason that rant works well with us is because we agree with you. You're preaching to the choir.
As a thought experiment, imagine you're a devout [fill in the blank of something you can actually convice yourself of being for a few minutes]. Now read your rant again. You'll probably find that you recoil from the words, and make the assumption that the guy is an asshat, and reject the arguments.
If we want to lure in the people who don't know what we're about, we have to choose the object of our rage carefully. Make the reader, any reader, agree with you, and then turn up the heat, and make them question themselves.
Lesson learned. I posted the gentler repost on MA and it seem to be much better accepted. From now on I will try to write for the pinks.
I still think it's a good thing to vent and fume, and rail on the heath, mind you. I like it when a person gets on a roll, and preaches to the choir. Especially when done well.
But when you wanna take it elsewhere, yeah.
Preaching to the choir beats the living shit out of preaching to the fuckheads. Fuckheads are for one purpose and one purpose only - laughing at (possibly eating, in event of emergency)
Nothing better than sharing the laughter with someone who's in on the joke. That's ranting for me. Fuck the pinks. I'd be much more likely to devote my time to loading a couple of hundred in a giant catapult than try to explain anything to them. One route leads to lulz the other frustration and disappointment.
Difference:
With a possible dissemination of the magazine, the intent would seem to be to get as many people as possible to read it: initiates, fuckheads, would-be fuckheads, and initiates who don't know it yet.
Otherwise, its just another bout of mental masturbation.
Quote from: LMNO on May 02, 2007, 04:20:06 PM
and initiates who don't know it yet.
get thee out of my mind, evildoer!
I left those out of my post cos I wasn't going to get sidetracked but these are the ones I really want to make laugh. If they get the joke it means there's suddenly one more cool person in the world.
Sometimes, you have to make the would-be's comfortable before sending them the lail.
Berating them isn't the way to do this, usually.
Also remember that, except for TGRR, everyone is a Discordian, whether they know it or not. So, theoretically everyone (except for TGRR) is a would-be.
In the spirit of getting things rolling again, and following up on my suggestion of shooting for a cohesive "theme" for each issue/edition/whatever, I'd like to propose that the first volume's "theme" is Revolution. Anyone that's interested in contributing, let's get something going with specifics so that we won't duplicate things others are working on - Cain could do something on the history end or current/modern revolutions, TGRR could whip everyone into one of his rant-frenzies, Prof could 'shop up a few "How To" pamphlet-style things, etc.
Since an overall focus seems to be something people were interested in pursuing, I figured I'd start the ball rolling. I'm in the process of getting something together regarding what to do AFTER a Revolution, rather than how to get there or what to do during it. It's been bubbling beneath the surface for a day or two, and I'll hopefully have something solid later this weekend or next week at the latest. Since that's what's been bouncing around in my head, I thought I'd get things going in that general vein - hopefully we can get this thing moving again :fnord:
:mittens:
Vive la Revolution!
My 2 cents: Name a mag "Chaos". It provides a broader palette and more intrigued audience than just a mag about some ancient Greek Goddess or whining about how we're all in prison.
Quote from: Benaclypse on May 11, 2007, 05:30:06 AM
My 2 cents: Name a mag "Chaos". It provides a broader palette and more intrigued audience than just a mag about some ancient Greek Goddess or whining about how we're all in prison.
Fuck that. Name it JUGS AND ASS, and reach the unwashed masses.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 11, 2007, 05:31:56 AM
Quote from: Benaclypse on May 11, 2007, 05:30:06 AM
My 2 cents: Name a mag "Chaos". It provides a broader palette and more intrigued audience than just a mag about some ancient Greek Goddess or whining about how we're all in prison.
Fuck that. Name it JUGS AND ASS, and reach the unwashed masses.
Okay, I admit. JUGS AND ASS is the correcterest motorcylcle. Srsly. Today the Internerd. Tomorrow every grocery aisle in the world!
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 11, 2007, 05:31:56 AM
Quote from: Benaclypse on May 11, 2007, 05:30:06 AM
My 2 cents: Name a mag "Chaos". It provides a broader palette and more intrigued audience than just a mag about some ancient Greek Goddess or whining about how we're all in prison.
Fuck that. Name it JUGS AND ASS, and reach the unwashed masses.
I buy it for the articles.... really...
Quote from: That One Guy on May 10, 2007, 05:03:43 PM
In the spirit of getting things rolling again, and following up on my suggestion of shooting for a cohesive "theme" for each issue/edition/whatever, I'd like to propose that the first volume's "theme" is Revolution. Anyone that's interested in contributing, let's get something going with specifics so that we won't duplicate things others are working on - Cain could do something on the history end or current/modern revolutions, TGRR could whip everyone into one of his rant-frenzies, Prof could 'shop up a few "How To" pamphlet-style things, etc.
Since an overall focus seems to be something people were interested in pursuing, I figured I'd start the ball rolling. I'm in the process of getting something together regarding what to do AFTER a Revolution, rather than how to get there or what to do during it. It's been bubbling beneath the surface for a day or two, and I'll hopefully have something solid later this weekend or next week at the latest. Since that's what's been bouncing around in my head, I thought I'd get things going in that general vein - hopefully we can get this thing moving again :fnord:
So, I've gone through maybe a dozen attempts at getting my post-revolution article going, and - while I know generally what I want to include - I'm having much trouble actually getting it into readable form.
Consequently, is this topic something people are interested in writing about? If so, great and I'll keep trying to hash out my ideas. If NOT, well, does anyone have any other relatively broad concepts that they've been ruminating on?
I really like the overall magazine concept, and ideally if we could have something concrete by the end of the summer that would be incredible. That gives us about three months (June/July/August) to get content and format established. Once all that is in place subsequent issues will be able to happen faster as they can just use the existing format, but giving ourselves a little more time to get things started should allow everyone to take the time to put out something that reflects the quality I've seen kicking around here.
Thoughts?
maybe would should start with a seaonal newletter - or just a monthly one - kind of like the ones I get in my email - links, article, ect.
something small then slowly work our way up to something more tangable
?
Well, so far of the two things i've posted for feedback for a magazine style thing don't seems to have worked.
Maybe a newsletter would be O.K. but we would need someone to get a big mailing list from somewere. Now where would we find someone who has something like that?
~~~Payne: Pondering
Next week, after I actually have some time to spend on something other than music (playing three shows in a week, with 5 different OTHER peoples' sets to learn PLUS a set of my own music at two of those shows takes a wee bit o' time after all) I really want to get at least something started with this.
Whether it's a newsletter, blog, magazine, whatever, there's so much great stuff kicking around here, and so many creative people we should be able to get something going.