...to use tomorrow's weapons.
Barbie teaches little girls to use sex as a weapon to obtain Corvettes.
what does spongebob squarepants teach?
That gay people should attempt to live under the sea (ie drown themselves).
Anyway, given the realism of FPS games, I can totally believe that.
http://www.americasarmy.com/
Is it any good? If I have the space, I may download it.
Never tried it I seriously can't be arsed with realistic weapons shooters. Pace is waaaay too slow for my taste.
Campershite can lick my balls!
I've begun to dislike newer fighting games.
They tend to simplify things way too much, and can't possibly do enough to make it like real combat without going full immersion VR.
All true combat games are bullshit because of simplification. I have no guarantee when I am in (x) reach of my enemy and I do techniques (y) and (z) that anything will happen. Dim Mak tried to take that approach with martial arts and its probably laughed at as the biggest fraud out there.
When was the last game that allowed for weapons to jam or break? Or for you convoy to be bombed by your own side due to a stupid mistake? That factored in moral and fatigue and the physical effects of having your positioned shelled? How many games will make it impossible for you to use your arm if it is shot? Or blur your vision due to blood and sweat?
Of course, all this is irrelevant, because its not physical training that goes into this. Its mental, mainly pseudospeciation. If you get used to killing the "designated enemy" without a thought as to why, you're going to be a better soldier, once your combat training is completed.
Agreed, and with all that said, I've recently been enjoying the Linux game "Konquest".
You conquer the "galaxy" planet by planet with a simple fleet system.
America Army was developed by the US Army
it is the most real-to-life game currently available on any platform anywhere
apparently
Yeah, one of my best friends from highschool played "America's propaganda machine" and decided he wanted to join the army. 6 months later he commited suicide.
I can't help but feel that if it weren't for that stupid game he'd be alive today.
Quote from: Cain on March 18, 2007, 01:06:07 AM
When was the last game that allowed for weapons to jam or break?
I've played a couple and, whilst it's good for lulz it kinda screws with the flow of play
Quote from: Cain on March 18, 2007, 01:06:07 AM
Or for you convoy to be bombed by your own side due to a stupid mistake?
Most multiplayer games have a serverside friendly fire option. If it's on then your own team mates can indeed blow the piss out of you by accident. It kinda ballses up things like railgun assists (where you're team mates can give you a speed boost by shooting you in the back) and on pub servers it means accidents between allied strangers can result in funny but kinda counter productive infighting.
Quote from: Cain on March 18, 2007, 01:06:07 AM
That factored in moral and fatigue and the physical effects of having your positioned shelled?
morale issues occur in team games. I've seen clans crumble under pressure, sometimes just because of the rep of the opponents. Being surrounded or under heavy fire is a 'pressure' situation, not a matter of life and death but you know how it feels when you're about to lose a fiver at pool if you don't pot the black.
Quote from: Cain on March 18, 2007, 01:06:07 AM
How many games will make it impossible for you to use your arm if it is shot? Or blur your vision due to
blood and sweat?
Some shooters factor in wound effects, including loss of mobility, fatigue and blurred vision. Campershite Source has a rather natty concussion grenade effect, complete with timitus (which is really convincing with a decent set of headphones) Most of these are gimmicky and, once more all it really does is fucks with the flow of deathmatch. I don't wanna be disabled - I wanna be killed and respawn, right now. Back in the fight and ready to claim the point back.
Quote from: Cain on March 18, 2007, 01:06:07 AM
Of course, all this is irrelevant, because its not physical training that goes into this. Its mental, mainly pseudospeciation. If you get used to killing the "designated enemy" without a thought as to why, you're going to be a better soldier, once your combat training is completed.
There's also a strong tactical element, again much more pronounced in multiplayer, thinking creatively, on your feet. Reacting to a fluid battle simulation. Securing areas, suppress and flank, all that bollox. Lotta beginner fps players online don't see that - they think it's all down to who can twitch a headshot the quickest. That shit counts but not nearly as much as locking down the armour and powerups.
But it aint war - it's a game. Realism scenarios are not realistic enough for me to bother with because the trade off is speed, fluidity and adrenaline rush. Yeah, that's right, there's enough sensory stimulation to fool your body into upping the pulse rate. The more frenetic the pace the better the buzz. I've played league team matches in quake 3 and ut2k3 & 4 where the combined headcount was in the hundreds shared between a dozen guys all dying and killing over and over again - that's a fun game to play. I've come out of matches actually sweating when the final score was tied and it goes into sudden death. Gimme one life to last the same 20mins and the whole thing becomes slow and painstakingly careful. Realistic? Slightly more so. Game? Boring.
Essentially tho I agree with your last point - US Army want to teach kids that the guy with the turban on his head is a target, not a person. Personally I could just as well be playing tennis all I'm doing is enjoying myself practicing hand eye coordination, reaction time and strategic thinking.
Gears of War was a pretty cool game.
If you want realism though, see your local recruiter.
egg zactly!
First: There should be a game called "Friendly Fire."
Second: LEEEEEEEROOOOOOOOOOOY JENKINS!
Research: Playing FPS video games improves eyesight (http://www.ozarksfirst.com/content/fulltext/?&cid=5680)
Quote from: Mechanically Separated Chicken on March 17, 2007, 02:23:03 PM
...to use tomorrow's weapons.
Is that a bad thing?
I guess not. For some reason children like to play with weapons; been like that for ages and will probably never change. problems start when you cannot anymore distinguish games from reality. (Is this something that's harder with computer games?)
Quote from: Cain on March 18, 2007, 01:06:07 AM
When was the last game that allowed for weapons to jam or break? Or for you convoy to be bombed by your own side due to a stupid mistake? That factored in moral and fatigue and the physical effects of having your positioned shelled? How many games will make it impossible for you to use your arm if it is shot? Or blur your vision due to blood and sweat?
I know a handful of games have incorporated some of these. 2 that I know of include Gears of War and America's Army (or at least it did years ago when I played a copy of it a friend downloaded from the U.S. Army propoganda site). Some of these have been in games for years.
Quote from: Cain on March 18, 2007, 01:06:07 AM
Of course, all this is irrelevant, because its not physical training that goes into this. Its mental, mainly pseudospeciation. If you get used to killing the "designated enemy" without a thought as to why, you're going to be a better soldier, once your combat training is completed.
The purpose of America's Army was mainly propoganda. I have heard that they may want to use some aspects of it for actual simulated training (I remember seeing a news story or some shit where they had a guy inside a ball and there were sensors to tell how he was moving. I don't remember what else they said because I was stuck visualising this guy as a hamster). Can't say I fully understood what you meant by "designated enemy". If I understood it correctly, and it meant what Cybin said...
Quote from: SillyCybin on March 18, 2007, 02:45:58 AM
...US Army want to teach kids that the guy with the turban on his head is a target, not a person.
Then you are both fools believing what the left wing media is putting out there. U.S. Forces have always worked hand in hand with local populations. They also demand that these people be treated with respect, and they are. People who do not are punished.
As for the training aspect of it, I cannot recall the name of it right now, but there is a system thet uses a computer and projector as well as modified mock wearons that are used for situational training. They have several scenarios that play out any of several different ways. Sometimes you shoot, sometimes you don't. If you do shoot and are not supposed to the simulation stops and you have to explain why you shot (this is to ensure that American troops do not end up like the guys from the UK that were shooting at people throwing rocks that I saw in a video somewhere). If you hit the person in a non lethal place I believe they react appropriately. If you kill them, they die.
Also, for more realistic training there is supposed to be paint rounds that can be used with the soldiers weapon, but I have neither seen nor read anything about these. They have also updated the MILES gear, and it is now more responsive and accurate, as well as much lighter. It also has disadvantages, but provides fairly decent training opportunities and can be used in a very realistic manner.
Both JRTC and NTC provide realistic training, and at many installations they have training areas that have the same type of training. All of these scenarios have you trying to decide who is trying to help you, who is trying to hurt you, and who is a bystander (it is safe to assume that they are not in this third catagory if they are still there once the shit hits the fan, unless they are idiots).
rygD, what's your military backround?
enlighten us Hunter - is the correct term for a person firing gun at you "human", or is it something slightly less personal?
You were wrong Silly. We went specific. Terms like "father of 3","only child", and "man forced into service so local militia fanatics wouldn't rape, behead, and rape his wife."
Quote from: rygD on March 04, 2007, 08:04:40 PM
There is a book out there called "On Killing". Haven't had time to finish reading, and as much as I hate the guy I like what he has to say.
Please finish this book.
Wasn't my book, and I don't have it right now. I am not too fond of the author, so I refuse to buy it, but will get around to it in a month or so. Why do you suggest I finish it?
As for your question, I just like to read the news, or something.
Because the book directly pertains to this topic.
Some of your ideas about how military personel think of enemy combatants (not people or fellow human, they are targets), and how the military treats the local population are somewhat distorted.
To add something:
Yes there are paint rounds. Yes it is good training.
MILES gear is garbage. It is a shitty training tool.
If the individual allows themselves to be brainwashed, then I can understand that point of view, and I, perhaps luckily, have not encountered as many of these types as one might think.
I will do some research on the paint rounds when I have time.
I thought the old MILES stuff was bullshit, but thought the new stuff to be less worthless. Didn't get to fuck with it enough to thoroughly test it out, but they seemed to fix a few of the major issues with the older shit. I would love to compare it to the paint rounds, but just like paintball, you can hide that you have been shot.
Quote from: rygD on March 23, 2007, 02:27:42 PMIf the individual allows themselves to be brainwashed
afaik, you cannot really join the army and
not allow yourself be brainwashed.
Quote from: triple zero on March 23, 2007, 02:35:40 PM
Quote from: rygD on March 23, 2007, 02:27:42 PMIf the individual allows themselves to be brainwashed
afaik, you cannot really join the army and not allow yourself be brainwashed.
I suspect you might be able to get away with it right up until the curtain rose on the theatre of war.
Every Marine gets brainwashed. Pure and simple. It's how you become a Marine.
I've used and trained with both. Comparison done.
Quote from: triple zero on March 23, 2007, 02:35:40 PM
afaik, you cannot really join the army and not allow yourself be brainwashed.
Only the weak would claim this, the U.S. Army has greatly watered down the process that used to result in those freshly scrubbed minds over the last several decades,so those aren't the results anymore. Unless you happen to be in a unit that enforces high standards and discipline, and are open to their bullshit (such as the 82nd Airborne Division, which is my big problem with Grossman), you are not likely to be any different than you were before you joined, only in better shape, and with a bit more knowledge.
Also, make sure that you do not get being brainwashed and conforming to standards to be the same thing. You may seem to live by the laws of a nation when in the eye of the public, but not behind closed doors. Now, though, in the Army this isn't neccessary in most situations. Even the new uniforms make it easier on you, no pressing the uniforms (will ruin them), no shining the boots.
Quote from: SillyCybin on March 23, 2007, 06:00:55 PMI suspect you might be able to get away with it right up until the curtain rose on the theatre of war.
It seems that today, aside from combat arms and a few lucky individuals, most people do not see combat. The most your average soldier experiences is attacks on their FOB.
Quote from: hunter s.durden on March 23, 2007, 08:55:01 PM
Every Marine gets brainwashed. Pure and simple. It's how you become a Marine.
I've used and trained with both. Comparison done.
I would say that for the most part this is true about Marines...haven't found a single one yet that proves this wrong.
I don't want your fucking comparison, what was the last MILES gear you used? I refuse to argue about this kind of bullshit, but unless I can understand your opinion completely it is worthless to me.
Quote from: rygD on March 24, 2007, 05:34:14 AMQuote from: triple zero on March 23, 2007, 02:35:40 PMafaik, you cannot really join the army and not allow yourself be brainwashed.
Only the weak would claim this
fuck you rygD
are you unable to have a sensible discussion without calling the other person "weak" in a snide remark without any provocation whatsoever?
QuoteAlso, make sure that you do not get being brainwashed and conforming to standards to be the same thing. You may seem to live by the laws of a nation when in the eye of the public, but not behind closed doors. Now, though, in the Army this isn't neccessary in most situations. Even the new uniforms make it easier on you, no pressing the uniforms (will ruin them), no shining the boots.
you speak as if you think i would ever join the US army .. :roll:
Quote from: rygD on March 24, 2007, 05:34:14 AM
Quote from: triple zero on March 23, 2007, 02:35:40 PM
afaik, you cannot really join the army and not allow yourself be brainwashed.
Only the weak would claim this, the U.S. Army has greatly watered down the process that used to result in those freshly scrubbed minds over the last several decades,so those aren't the results anymore. Unless you happen to be in a unit that enforces high standards and discipline, and are open to their bullshit (such as the 82nd Airborne Division, which is my big problem with Grossman), you are not likely to be any different than you were before you joined, only in better shape, and with a bit more knowledge.
Also, make sure that you do not get being brainwashed and conforming to standards to be the same thing. You may seem to live by the laws of a nation when in the eye of the public, but not behind closed doors. Now, though, in the Army this isn't neccessary in most situations. Even the new uniforms make it easier on you, no pressing the uniforms (will ruin them), no shining the boots.
Quote from: SillyCybin on March 23, 2007, 06:00:55 PMI suspect you might be able to get away with it right up until the curtain rose on the theatre of war.
It seems that today, aside from combat arms and a few lucky individuals, most people do not see combat. The most your average soldier experiences is attacks on their FOB.
Quote from: hunter s.durden on March 23, 2007, 08:55:01 PM
Every Marine gets brainwashed. Pure and simple. It's how you become a Marine.
I've used and trained with both. Comparison done.
I would say that for the most part this is true about Marines...haven't found a single one yet that proves this wrong.
I don't want your fucking comparison, what was the last MILES gear you used? I refuse to argue about this kind of bullshit, but unless I can understand your opinion completely it is worthless to me.
Been in the army, did that, wouldn't do it again. Yes I have an honorable discharge and no, it wasn't some bullshit medical leave. I was a good soldier and earned plenty of shiney's while I was in. As an independant and free thinker as well as a proffessional artist I can't support Rigid's rabbid support of the military. Does it do good things for some people, sure. Is it good for everyone? certainly not. I think that if you feel the need to defend it so hard core then that only attests to the brain washing present, pure and simple, and if you can't identify that, well, then perhaps you should reassess what you consider brain washing. I don't think however, that the military brain washing is a bad thing, it's good for soldiers, and honestly, I'd rather have brain washed killers that view the enemy impersonally that can actually function as citizens once they are released from duty then people who got caught up in things and were never able to live again like so many vietnam vets. That being said, our military is a successfull system and if you haven't been there you can't possibly understand how it works. It's like the first time you bang a chick. you can't know till you go there no matter how many books you read and movies you watch, only more so with this because it's a much more personalized experience than even fucking. You may argue that having such a well trained military does allow for our president to make much bolder shots that would otherwise be impossible and thus not stood for at all due to terrible losses, like the whole searching for weapons of mass destruction ordeal, but in my opinion, it's better to err on the side of having a superior military and just learn to identify a power hungry dictator before he ever gets into office as a preemptive cure.
...
In any case, I think the point of the thread was to discuss how toys lead children to war. It's not a new concept, but I think more than toys leading children to war, you need to worry about the parents leading the children to war. They breed it into their kids like the generations that went before with bigger and shinier special effects than last years line, the toys are just a product and a tool to bring about that end. Parents that prize intellectualism and peace will feed their children musical instruments and educational devices. Parents who favor war with low incomes will teach their children how to play soldier and german spotlight, parents with money who favor war may buy their children hunting liscences and in both cases will steer their children away from educational and peaceble devices while the opposite is also true. Thankfully education has become far cheaper and more accessable thanks to things like the internet. Some people prefer to prey on the weak, others prefer to reap what they sew. Neither is right or wrong, but it is generally accepted that it is better to be the bowling ball over the bowling pin, but there will always be a need for both, otherwise there is no way to bowl. I say educate the kids in all manners, including war. Let them figure out what they want to do with their lives once they are a legal adult. If you've done the best you can to keep their options open to them and shown them as many options as you can, then you have done your job, let them figure it out from there. Some will be soldiers, others will be doctors and lawyers, many will serve fast food. The End, I hope.
Attention: rygD beats off to military magazines but was never actually in.
Case closed.
Read all the articles you want Fucko, it means dick.
You really are thick as pigshit if you think all your reading and going to lectures is in any way equivalent to actually being there.
holy shit i missed this thread
I must be slipping
who is this asshole anyways?
has he always been an asshole.. or is this something new?
He's always been a "know-it-all", but now he's just an asshole.
Dude wasn't even in ? I beg this isn't true... :argh!:
wtf mate? how the hell do you pretend to know what you're talking about?
You get the prize :fnord:
Ambassador KLOK KAOS
I could be wrong, but he answered rather sheepishly when asked (called out) about it.
If he was in he would have no doubt come out with it to prove an idiot like me wrong.
This isn't going to devolve into a thread about "only those who've been in the military can talk about it/criticize it/jack off about it" is it?
Cuz...I got a GREAT forum *cough MW PP cough cough* y'all can hang out at if that's the case. PLENTY of neonazipaganfuckintards that believe the same OVER THERE!
Quote from: Jenne on March 25, 2007, 08:02:31 AM
This isn't going to devolve into a thread about "only those who've been in the military can talk about it/criticize it/jack off about it" is it?
Like all forums I was doping my best to help it devolve into toilet humor and sexual innuendos. In reality however, I don't think it matters what the topic is, if your not a qualified expert on the subject you really only prove your a retard when you open your mouth in front of someone who is, whether it be military, toys training children to be malicious or a gang bang with my mom. The point being, it is always best to hold your tongue if you don't know what you're talking about or you very well could end up making a giant ass of yourself on a discordian forum that wasn't even about military life to beigin with. I know it sounds unlikely, but it could happen to you. See above...
AKK
Quote from: hunter s.durden on March 24, 2007, 09:27:55 PM
Attention: rygD beats off to military magazines but was never actually in.
Case closed.
Read all the articles you want Fucko, it means dick.
You really are thick as pigshit if you think all your reading and going to lectures is in any way equivalent to actually being there.
Heh. There's always one.
Quote from: Jenne on March 25, 2007, 08:02:31 AM
This isn't going to devolve into a thread about "only those who've been in the military can talk about it/criticize it/jack off about it" is it?
Why shouldn't it?
If you were completely wrong about something, wouldn't you want to be corrected?
Quote from: hunter s.durden on March 25, 2007, 09:54:23 PM
Quote from: Jenne on March 25, 2007, 08:02:31 AM
This isn't going to devolve into a thread about "only those who've been in the military can talk about it/criticize it/jack off about it" is it?
Why shouldn't it?
If you were completely wrong about something, wouldn't you want to be corrected?
Yeah, if I could be convinced of such, sure. But that's not the point. It's silly to say that you can't criticize or judge something based on the fact you weren't directly involved. Your point of view may be different, but you can still make judgment calls.
Whether or not people RESPECT or AGREE WITH those views, that's entirely different, of course.
Quote from: Ambassador KAOS on March 25, 2007, 11:04:48 AM
Quote from: Jenne on March 25, 2007, 08:02:31 AM
This isn't going to devolve into a thread about "only those who've been in the military can talk about it/criticize it/jack off about it" is it?
Like all forums I was doping my best to help it devolve into toilet humor and sexual innuendos. In reality however, I don't think it matters what the topic is, if your not a qualified expert on the subject you really only prove your a retard when you open your mouth in front of someone who is, whether it be military, toys training children to be malicious or a gang bang with my mom. The point being, it is always best to hold your tongue if you don't know what you're talking about or you very well could end up making a giant ass of yourself on a discordian forum that wasn't even about military life to beigin with. I know it sounds unlikely, but it could happen to you. See above...
AKK
:lulz:
As long as you don't take yourself too seriously, you mean?
Quote from: Jenne on March 26, 2007, 07:14:49 AM
Quote from: hunter s.durden on March 25, 2007, 09:54:23 PM
Quote from: Jenne on March 25, 2007, 08:02:31 AM
This isn't going to devolve into a thread about "only those who've been in the military can talk about it/criticize it/jack off about it" is it?
Why shouldn't it?
If you were completely wrong about something, wouldn't you want to be corrected?
Yeah, if I could be convinced of such, sure. But that's not the point. It's silly to say that you can't criticize or judge something based on the fact you weren't directly involved. Your point of view may be different, but you can still make judgment calls.
Whether or not people RESPECT or AGREE WITH those views, that's entirely different, of course.
Of course don't take this crap too seriously, however...
Assume someone who had no clue about what you do (or in my case have done) for a living and started making outrageous claims about it. Shouldn't you step in and say, "I would know better, retard, so stop trying to fool everyone."?
I can also offer that the military is slightly different scenario than even a career in such that there IS brain washing going on, that it controls EVERY aspect of your life including when and how you pee, scratch your nose and kill. I do think that this makes it slightly separted from say, serving coffee at a starbucks. This doesn't mean you can't critisize the military or even the botched cappuccino you bought, but you should be forced to recognize your own ignorance from an authority if any is present. In this case the store may have standing orders to put whipped cream on every cappuccino unless otherwise specified, and if you didn't say anything and were ignorant of that fact, you deserve to be told, if for no other reason so that you can be better prepared to deal next time.
PORN,
AKK
Quote from: Jenne on March 26, 2007, 07:14:49 AM
Yeah, if I could be convinced of such, sure. But that's not the point. It's silly to say that you can't criticize or judge something based on the fact you weren't directly involved. Your point of view may be different, but you can still make judgment calls.
Whether or not people RESPECT or AGREE WITH those views, that's entirely different, of course.
Um, no or whatever.
When I got involved in this conversation it was to clear up two things. First military training teaches you to distance yourself emotionally from your targets to make killing easier, and second that this carries over when we are occupying something.
I was there. He wasn't. Plain and simple.
You can listen to the media, or read a magazine article, but I saw and was involved first hand. I didn't take away his opinion, i'm saying it's wrong and stupid.
Quote from: hunter s.durden on March 26, 2007, 01:29:56 PM
I was there. He wasn't. Plain and simple.
You can listen to the media, or read a magazine article, but I saw and was involved first hand. I didn't take away his opinion, i'm saying it's wrong and stupid.
The End
Quote from: hunter s.durden on March 26, 2007, 01:29:56 PM
Quote from: Jenne on March 26, 2007, 07:14:49 AM
Yeah, if I could be convinced of such, sure. But that's not the point. It's silly to say that you can't criticize or judge something based on the fact you weren't directly involved. Your point of view may be different, but you can still make judgment calls.
Whether or not people RESPECT or AGREE WITH those views, that's entirely different, of course.
Um, no or whatever.
When I got involved in this conversation it was to clear up two things. First military training teaches you to distance yourself emotionally from your targets to make killing easier, and second that this carries over when we are occupying something.
I was there. He wasn't. Plain and simple.
You can listen to the media, or read a magazine article, but I saw and was involved first hand. I didn't take away his opinion, i'm saying it's wrong and stupid.
So...ok. You disagree with him because he's 1) wrong and 2) he's wrong because he wasn't there.
Gotcha.
Quote from: triple zero on March 24, 2007, 01:23:47 PM
Quote from: rygD on March 24, 2007, 05:34:14 AMQuote from: triple zero on March 23, 2007, 02:35:40 PMafaik, you cannot really join the army and not allow yourself be brainwashed.
Only the weak would claim this
fuck you rygD
are you unable to have a sensible discussion without calling the other person "weak" in a snide remark without any provocation whatsoever?
My intention was not to make this sound like an attack on you. It was intended as a comment to those who would make this claim.
As is likely obvious, I am not fond of those who are easily influenced by that outside themselves, and the current state of the U.S. Army is not like the old Army, the one that RAW used as an example for explaining brainwashing, unless you are weak minded.
Quote from: rygD on March 28, 2007, 11:57:37 PM
Quote from: triple zero on March 24, 2007, 01:23:47 PM
Quote from: rygD on March 24, 2007, 05:34:14 AMQuote from: triple zero on March 23, 2007, 02:35:40 PMafaik, you cannot really join the army and not allow yourself be brainwashed.
Only the weak would claim this
fuck you rygD
are you unable to have a sensible discussion without calling the other person "weak" in a snide remark without any provocation whatsoever?
My intention was not to make this sound like an attack on you. It was intended as a comment to those who would make this claim.
As is likely obvious, I am not fond of those who are easily influenced by that outside themselves, and the current state of the U.S. Army is not like the old Army, the one that RAW used as an example for explaining brainwashing, unless you are weak minded.
Yeah, because as well all know you are a perfect example of iron will, intelligence, and ability. :roll:
Quote from: Ambassador KAOS on March 24, 2007, 08:16:11 PMBeen in the army, did that, wouldn't do it again. Yes I have an honorable discharge and no, it wasn't some bullshit medical leave. I was a good soldier and earned plenty of shiney's while I was in. As an independant and free thinker as well as a proffessional artist I can't support Rigid's rabbid support of the military. Does it do good things for some people, sure. Is it good for everyone? certainly not. I think that if you feel the need to defend it so hard core then that only attests to the brain washing present, pure and simple, and if you can't identify that, well, then perhaps you should reassess what you consider brain washing. I don't think however, that the military brain washing is a bad thing, it's good for soldiers, and honestly, I'd rather have brain washed killers that view the enemy impersonally that can actually function as citizens once they are released from duty then people who got caught up in things and were never able to live again like so many vietnam vets. That being said, our military is a successfull system and if you haven't been there you can't possibly understand how it works. It's like the first time you bang a chick. you can't know till you go there no matter how many books you read and movies you watch, only more so with this because it's a much more personalized experience than even fucking. You may argue that having such a well trained military does allow for our president to make much bolder shots that would otherwise be impossible and thus not stood for at all due to terrible losses, like the whole searching for weapons of mass destruction ordeal, but in my opinion, it's better to err on the side of having a superior military and just learn to identify a power hungry dictator before he ever gets into office as a preemptive cure.
...
In any case, I think the point of the thread was to discuss how toys lead children to war. It's not a new concept, but I think more than toys leading children to war, you need to worry about the parents leading the children to war. They breed it into their kids like the generations that went before with bigger and shinier special effects than last years line, the toys are just a product and a tool to bring about that end. Parents that prize intellectualism and peace will feed their children musical instruments and educational devices. Parents who favor war with low incomes will teach their children how to play soldier and german spotlight, parents with money who favor war may buy their children hunting liscences and in both cases will steer their children away from educational and peaceble devices while the opposite is also true. Thankfully education has become far cheaper and more accessable thanks to things like the internet. Some people prefer to prey on the weak, others prefer to reap what they sew. Neither is right or wrong, but it is generally accepted that it is better to be the bowling ball over the bowling pin, but there will always be a need for both, otherwise there is no way to bowl. I say educate the kids in all manners, including war. Let them figure out what they want to do with their lives once they are a legal adult. If you've done the best you can to keep their options open to them and shown them as many options as you can, then you have done your job, let them figure it out from there. Some will be soldiers, others will be doctors and lawyers, many will serve fast food. The End, I hope.
Been in the army, did that, wouldn't do it again. Yes I have an honorable discharge and no, it wasn't some bullshit medical leave. I was a good soldier and earned plenty of shiney's while I was in. As an independant and free thinker as well as a proffessional artist I can't support Rigid's rabbid support of the military. Does it do good things for some people, sure. Is it good for everyone? certainly not. I think that if you feel the need to defend it so hard core then that only attests to the brain washing present, pure and simple, and if you can't identify that, well, then perhaps you should reassess what you consider brain washing. I don't think however, that the military brain washing is a bad thing, it's good for soldiers, and honestly, I'd rather have brain washed killers that view the enemy impersonally that can actually function as citizens once they are released from duty then people who got caught up in things and were never able to live again like so many vietnam vets. That being said, our military is a successfull system and if you haven't been there you can't possibly understand how it works. It's like the first time you bang a chick. you can't know till you go there no matter how many books you read and movies you watch, only more so with this because it's a much more personalized experience than even fucking. You may argue that having such a well trained military does allow for our president to make much bolder shots that would otherwise be impossible and thus not stood for at all due to terrible losses, like the whole searching for weapons of mass destruction ordeal, but in my opinion, it's better to err on the side of having a superior military and just learn to identify a power hungry dictator before he ever gets into office as a preemptive cure.
...
In any case, I think the point of the thread was to discuss how toys lead children to war. It's not a new concept, but I think more than toys leading children to war, you need to worry about the parents leading the children to war. They breed it into their kids like the generations that went before with bigger and shinier special effects than last years line, the toys are just a product and a tool to bring about that end. Parents that prize intellectualism and peace will feed their children musical instruments and educational devices. Parents who favor war with low incomes will teach their children how to play soldier and german spotlight, parents with money who favor war may buy their children hunting liscences and in both cases will steer their children away from educational and peaceble devices while the opposite is also true. Thankfully education has become far cheaper and more accessable thanks to things like the internet. Some people prefer to prey on the weak, others prefer to reap what they sew. Neither is right or wrong, but it is generally accepted that it is better to be the bowling ball over the bowling pin, but there will always be a need for both, otherwise there is no way to bowl. I say educate the kids in all manners, including war. Let them figure out what they want to do with their lives once they are a legal adult. If you've done the best you can to keep their options open to them and shown them as many options as you can, then you have done your job, let them figure it out from there. Some will be soldiers, others will be doctors and lawyers, many will serve fast food. The End, I hope.
[/quote]
I don't think the military is for everyone. I do sometimes feel that all "citizens" of a nation should have to earn that title (I get sick of those who talk shit about the military, but know nothing about it...I also am bothered by those who act like it is something more than it is, due, again, to lack of knowledge. As you said, these people need to experience it). My "support" of the military is largely support of it in theory. I despise the current state of the Army and Air Force, although I am not fond of how it got to where it is, either. I think too much of the military lifestyle revolves around shit that is outdated. Most of those involved seem to hate all the ceremony, yet it is still around, and occasionally in excess. Also, the politics is bullshit. These are people who work for politicians (I know no one wants to here how I feel about politics in America, so I won't touch that one any more).
As for the cause of war, human nature is to blame for that, and can be seen in almost all mammalian "societies". I wouldn't blame the parents for children enjoying mock battles and other such behaviour, but feel that it is instinctual to a large degree.
Quote from: hunter s.durden on March 24, 2007, 09:27:55 PM
Attention: rygD beats off to military magazines but was never actually in.
Case closed.
Read all the articles you want Fucko, it means dick.
You really are thick as pigshit if you think all your reading and going to lectures is in any way equivalent to actually being there.
Actually, I was and am, asswipe. If you my dumb ass joke threw you off, sorry for that. As for the lecture, it was one of those lovely motivational ones prior to my current deployment (with the 82nd).
Quote from: rygD on March 29, 2007, 12:37:24 AM
Quote from: hunter s.durden on March 24, 2007, 09:27:55 PM
Attention: rygD beats off to military magazines but was never actually in.
Case closed.
Read all the articles you want Fucko, it means dick.
You really are thick as pigshit if you think all your reading and going to lectures is in any way equivalent to actually being there.
Actually, I was and am, asswipe. If you my dumb ass joke threw you off, sorry for that. As for the lecture, it was one of those lovely motivational ones prior to my current deployment (with the 82nd).
11B?
Ha! Not in this life. Although in this division doesn't really matter. PMOS is currently 25N, SMOS 98C. Used to be a 98J.
Are you deployed yet?
Get back at me after you've been there a few months.
You are a fool if you think this is my first deployment, if you want to call it that. This shit is nothing compared to invading Iraq a few years ago. There is a reason that Afghanistan doesn't get as much attention.
It makes me a fool to not know every detail of your idiotic life?
Pics or it didn't happen.
Either way, I don't care if you've been in 20 years, you talk out of your ass.
Quote from: hunter s.durden on March 31, 2007, 02:27:11 PM
you talk out of your ass.
Quite true, thank you for noticing.
I forgot I made this thread...
:lulz:
Quote from: Lies on March 18, 2007, 01:53:27 AM
Yeah, one of my best friends from highschool played "America's propaganda machine" and decided he wanted to join the army. 6 months later he commited suicide.
I can't help but feel that if it weren't for that stupid game he'd be alive today.
One of my best friends played Mario Brothers, and decided he wanted to be a plumber. 6 months later, he was killed in a freak accident involving a hat and suspenders.
I can't help but feel that if it weren't for that stupid game he'd be alive today.
wtf :lulz:
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 17, 2011, 09:45:57 PM
Quote from: Lies on March 18, 2007, 01:53:27 AM
Yeah, one of my best friends from highschool played "America's propaganda machine" and decided he wanted to join the army. 6 months later he commited suicide.
I can't help but feel that if it weren't for that stupid game he'd be alive today.
One of my best friends played Mario Brothers, and decided he wanted to be a plumber. 6 months later, he was killed in a freak accident involving a hat and suspenders.
I can't help but feel that if it weren't for that stupid game he'd be alive today.
Was he stuck in a pipe?
Ive noticed a trend of short people I know enlisting in the military.
I dont think its that short people enlist more, I think its that they brag about it more.
Quote from: Lord Glittersnatch on March 20, 2011, 08:20:58 PM
Ive noticed a trend of short people I know enlisting in the military.
I dont think its that short people enlist more, I think its that they brag about it more.
I think they accidentally come on their face more too.
Dimo, for example.
Quote from: ☄ · · · N E T · · · ☄ on March 21, 2011, 11:28:33 PM
Quote from: Lord Glittersnatch on March 20, 2011, 08:20:58 PM
Ive noticed a trend of short people I know enlisting in the military.
I dont think its that short people enlist more, I think its that they brag about it more.
I think they accidentally come on their face more too.
Dimo, for example.
"Accidentally?"
:lulz:
Quote from: Luna on March 21, 2011, 11:57:17 PM
Quote from: ☄ · · · N E T · · · ☄ on March 21, 2011, 11:28:33 PM
Quote from: Lord Glittersnatch on March 20, 2011, 08:20:58 PM
Ive noticed a trend of short people I know enlisting in the military.
I dont think its that short people enlist more, I think its that they brag about it more.
I think they accidentally come on their face more too.
Dimo, for example.
"Accidentally?"
Accidents happen. For some reason they just happen to Dimo a lot more than often.
-(doesnt even know who dimo is)
Dimo = Cuddlefish/Cuddlefist...