Okay everybody, do you really, really want to have an impact on the future of this hunk o rock? I mean, of course, besides taking up bandwidth on an internet forum? Well, this may sound very psa-cheezy but here it is, mentor a child. Seriously.
We asshats here at pd.com have come to the conclusions that part of why everything is so fucked up is because people have forgotten how to think for themselves, or how to be themselves. Fuck, many never learned in the first place. And the scary part is, these vapid, empty kids are growing up and having kids. And they are only teaching them what they know. So, you can see how this train can get away pretty quickily.
Children are growing up in our schools in a way that leaves a lot of them hollow. Sure, they go through the paces. They do their arithmatics, they write their book reports on Poe and Shakespeare, they make the obligatory baking soda volcano for the science fair, but they do all of this because they have to. Meanwhile, the void within many of them grows. Perhaps they are having a hard time connecting with other kids. They can't find the right clique to join. Maybe their school has cut our music and drama and the only extracurricular activities involve athletics. All of this can lead to isolation. This isolation then can beget more emptiness and a loss of identity. And so, in acts of desperation, to belong, these kids are looking for something, anything that will fill in the holes.
This is where drugs come in. This is where girls are having their second child at 14. This is where tomorrow becomes more tenuous.
And our society continues to feed this. We make little or no effort to reach these kids. To find ways to make them feel whole. We don't go to the School Board meetings and scream and hollar at them for cutting out their arts programs. We don't encourage our school systems to develop activities to reinforce self-esteem. To maintain the integrity of the individual. To learn how to want to always learn and grow. To see school as more than just the thing you do before you go to college which is the thing you do before you get the Accounts Payable job at the big Insurance or credit card company. To understand, the more they lose themself during these formative years, the less of a chance they have at finding and realizing their dream, instead of chasing the white-picket illusion concocted by the naivety of our governments.
Because, here is the reality folks. Once we lose them in school, we have lost them. Habits die hard. It is very, very difficult to tear down a false self-image at 25. And it's even tougher to rebuild a new one that will sustain itself into the future. Our children put a lot of stock into what we tell them and teach them as they grow up. They count on us to set the standard for them to follow and to consider as they make their way through the years. We can't continue to allow them to partake in the shadow dance. Apathy will beget more apathy will beget more apathy. And those are the ones who don't die in a pool of their own vomit.
when you make a warning to people, it is easy to brush it off
people seem to have a 'what the hell does he know?' file folder that they can easily shift information into
if they dont put it into that category, they can easily shift it into the 'it wont happen to me' file
there is another category too: the 'let them do something about it' category
even on this board itself there is people that will tell you that you are taking the situation too seriously
the 'crash and burn' perspective
every 'crash and burn' person i ever met crashed and burned, but they burned longer than they expected
and the burning sensation was different than what they expected
it burned in places they didnt realize it could burn, and it burned longer than they had prepared themselves to handle
no amount of repression or suppression or whatever defense mechanism people try to employ to escape this situation will be sufficient
only time will tell how accurate your observation is
but if i was a betting man - i would say that anybody that doesnt take heed to the OP in this forum is in for something something
Discordian Mentoring Syllabus
Professor Asshat, PhD
Our mentors will guide children through counter-productive shit-flinging exercises utilizing the computer. Children will learn to antagonize their peers with images, audio, and textual propaganda. The participants will also study the practical uses of distraction in moving discussion away from application and personal relevance.
Mentors will strategize and piss and moan on the interwebs. Children will gain understandings of interboard dramatics, professional standards in lail rope, and when to change their pance as it relates to pretense of rebellion. At the completion of this mentoring program, children will be able to:
,Ä¢ construct a functional browser bomb
,Ä¢ vandalize a toilet
,Ä¢ cause formatting problems within the forum environment
,Ä¢ ignore well thought out posts
,Ä¢ use appropriate terminology when lambasting their classmates
RWHN, you are very right.
and your writing has made me think of something. if children get wasted away in their young lives and old habits die hard, then what does this say about us? we all ended up here, does that mean we all got a fresh exciting interesting and stimulating childhood? (note that i did not necessarily say "good" or "happy".)
also, Net: lol :lol:
Quote from: Netaungrot on March 22, 2007, 09:58:55 PM
Discordian Mentoring Syllabus
Professor Asshat, PhD
Our mentors will guide children through counter-productive shit-flinging exercises utilizing the computer. Children will learn to antagonize their peers with images, audio, and textual propaganda. The participants will also study the practical uses of distraction in moving discussion away from application and personal relevance.
Mentors will strategize and piss and moan on the interwebs. Children will gain understandings of interboard dramatics, professional standards in lail rope, and when to change their pance as it relates to pretense of rebellion. At the completion of this mentoring program, children will be able to:
,Ä¢ construct a functional browser bomb
,Ä¢ vandalize a toilet
,Ä¢ cause formatting problems within the forum environment
,Ä¢ ignore well thought out posts
,Ä¢ use appropriate terminology when lambasting their classmates
:potd:
Quote from: triple zero on March 22, 2007, 10:05:52 PM
RWHN, you are very right.
and your writing has made me think of something. if children get wasted away in their young lives and old habits die hard, then what does this say about us? we all ended up here, does that mean we all got a fresh exciting interesting and stimulating childhood? (note that i did not necessarily say "good" or "happy".)
also, Net: lol :lol:
Interesting theory. Here's my formative years in a nutshell:
0- Born... Earliest memory Mam and Dad screaming at each other cos I'd shit my nappy (srsly I musta been a couple of months old)
3-5 Most other memories - Mam and Dad screaming at each other, plus Imaginary friend - monkey in cowboy outfit
6 - Moved to another town, 2nd year of school - was sure all the other kids were wierd copies of previous schoolmates ... more screaming
7- Mam left and took sister with her ... for some fkin bizarre reason this upset me, maybe cos they got to stay at grans
7 1/2 - Mam came back for a couple of weeks ... Screaming
2 ... was glad when she left but that didn't last long
8-10 Dad became real surly bastard ... me caught in the middle of occasional screaming matches betweeen him and Mam
10-12 Began to wonder if the world was some kind of elaborate practical joke at my expense
13 Discovered Hash, trips, alcohol and female schoolmates - nevar looked back
That's perfectly normal right?
Quote from: Netaungrot on March 22, 2007, 09:58:55 PM
Discordian Mentoring Syllabus
Professor Asshat, PhD
Our mentors will guide children through counter-productive shit-flinging exercises utilizing the computer. Children will learn to antagonize their peers with images, audio, and textual propaganda. The participants will also study the practical uses of distraction in moving discussion away from application and personal relevance.
Mentors will strategize and piss and moan on the interwebs. Children will gain understandings of interboard dramatics, professional standards in lail rope, and when to change their pance as it relates to pretense of rebellion. At the completion of this mentoring program, children will be able to:
,Ä¢ construct a functional browser bomb
,Ä¢ vandalize a toilet
,Ä¢ cause formatting problems within the forum environment
,Ä¢ ignore well thought out posts
,Ä¢ use appropriate terminology when lambasting their classmates
o dear sweet mother of god
Net outdoes himself ITT
2 of the best posts i have read recently in the same thread
from both sides of the spectrum
Eh, what I wrote here sounded like shite to me after I wrote it. So never mind.
Let's just say, I know where you're coming from, and I hope folks listen to it. Kids, ain't an easy equation. And I feel for ya, Rev, when you have to do what you did today...that ain't easy, either.
I'd agree with that rant, actually...
I live in a very small town, but still, the same elements are showing up...
Rev, would you say there is a problem of alienation in society? Not in the strict economic sense of being removed from what it is that makes you your living, but in a more social sense? Get up at 7, be at work for nine, have half an hour off for lunch, go home, watch tv, have OK sex then go to bed. Rinse and repeat, forever.
I don't want to sound like some fucking conservative, but there does seem to be a problem when it comes to the average person and the lack of grand narratives and community in modern life. Personally, I couldn't give a shit because I get along just fine without these things. But a lot of people do seem to need them, and without them will buy into any half assed shit that makes them feel part of something. Xenophobic nationalism. Extremist movements. Religious nutwingery.
Quote from: Cain on March 23, 2007, 08:57:05 AMRev, would you say there is a problem of alienation in society? Not in the strict economic sense of being removed from what it is that makes you your living, but in a more social sense? Get up at 7, be at work for nine, have half an hour off for lunch, go home, watch tv, have OK sex then go to bed. Rinse and repeat, forever.
sort of seems appropriate:
http://www.funfreepages.com/flash/i_love_death.php
(hope i have the right movie -- flash no worky here yet. but you all know it i guess)
QuoteI don't want to sound like some fucking conservative, but there does seem to be a problem when it comes to the average person and the lack of grand narratives and community in modern life. Personally, I couldn't give a shit because I get along just fine without these things. But a lot of people do seem to need them, and without them will buy into any half assed shit that makes them feel part of something. Xenophobic nationalism. Extremist movements. Religious nutwingery.
grand narratives? what do you mean?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_narrative
Silly, whatever happened to that monkey in the cowboy suit, anyway?
Quote from: LMNO on March 23, 2007, 12:30:29 PM
Silly, whatever happened to that monkey in the cowboy suit, anyway?
Funny you should ask, he turned up in a dream I had a couple of years ago. I posted this on the board I was frequenting at the time.
Quote
I had a good dream last night. I dreamt I was looking after my friends chimpanzee. I had just got a new snake, since I got the primate. I had forgotten all about the chimp and hadn't been near it for three or four weeks. I suddenly remembered the chimp (mid dream) and when I went into the bedroom, where I was keeping it, I saw the cage. It was the most ramshackle, loads of cupboard doors and bits of MDF and planks, nailed together, hell pit of a cage. Totally dark inside. I felt a sensation of panic. I'd left a highly articulate primate, in a dark six by six cell, for three weeks, with no food or water or cleaning out or anything!!! How the hell could I do this? I was thoroughly appalled.
When I opened the cage the stink of urine hit me like a punch in the teeth. The chimp was lying, wrapped up, like a baby, in a white blanket. It wasn't moving. I picked it up. It was cold and stiff. Then it slowly began to wake up, the way a reptile wakes up when it's been sleeping in a cool spot. Slowly, it came to life. I remember thinking - "It'll be completely insane". but it wasn't. When it got warmed up I fed it and it just sat there, happily scoffing down a carrier bag full of fruit. Then we played and walked around the house and in the garden. I felt pure joy in the companionship of this furry little friend.
Then we went back to the bedroom, which became the factory where I work. The cage was down at the far end and, as we approached, the chimp became agitated. He knew I was going to put him back in the cage. He started to fight with me, pulling away and biting my hand and fingers. I was fighting the chimp to try and bundle it into the cage. I was grief stricken, myself, at having to do this but, for a reason I don't understand, I had to. Eventually myself and the guys at work managed to get it inside the cage. I felt deep sorrow at what I had done and sat on my own, on some steps at the far end of the factory. I knew I was going to get shit for this, I didn't have a DWA license to look after chimps and It was going to get taken away.
So I'm despondent, and I look up, and there's a man from the council walking toward me, with a clipboard. He hands it to me. I look at it. There's a yellow sheet sellotaped onto it. Black letters, Something along the lines of - "the people around you have noticed you seem to be suffering from the symptoms of a nervous breakdown. they have brought this to our attention and we've come to take you away...etc" Then I noticed a little logo at the bottom of the page, a cartoon profile, laughing and the words - "Joke Email". Then the guy told me to turn the board over. I was looking at the wrong side. On the other side was some meaningless bureaucratic bollix and a bit for me to sign. I signed it and gave it back to the guy, who left. Then I woke up.
Here's my interpretation -
The chimp was my subconscious, more particularly, that deeper facet of imagination from which springs my inspiration. Monkey Muse. When I was just tiny and 'ickle I had an imaginary friend. His name was Sherrif. he was a chimpanzee, wearing a cowboy suit. If you ever saw the Ronnie Raygun movie, called "Bedtime for bonzo", or something like that, you get the picture. The dream was reminding me that, at some point in the past, I had put Sheriff in a cage, in a cold, black part of my mind, and forgotten about him. I'd put my best ever link to my subconscious genius zone, in a shitty, ramshackle prison and left him to rot.
The nervous breakdown stuff related to when I went completely nuts and ended up locked up in a looney bin. These events had occurred because Sheriff had wanted to play a joke on me, to remind me what I'd forgotten about. But it had backfired on him, as it made me "lock up" that part of my mind, even tighter, giving him less chance to communicate with me. I've had to build this personality up from scratch, in order to interface with the people I work with, have dealings with, and normal people in general. And, in doing this, have become the hollow mask which I wear as "silence". All I need to do to resolve the situation (get rid of the council guy) is to turn the mask around and sign the back. Nice one!
This is my interpretation. Any one have any other ideas, building on or contra to this, I'd be interested to hear 'em.
ok, i skimmed the grand/meta narrative wiki page. what i got from it is that it's like "the big story" (as in "the big picture", only with a story) of where history has come from so far, where we are now and where it is going to. unsurprisingly this story is often strongly tied in with people's belief systems and world views.
you say you get along without it just fine. how is that possible, how do you do it? especially since you are a history student, i would guess you must have a pretty clear view on where we came from and were we're going to.
or do I misunderstand the concept of grand narrative now?
does it have to be something "special" (for ex. religious) you can really feel "part" of?
i would myself say, if your grand narrative sort of makes sense and doesn't get you on crusading against some random other part of humanity, i'd think it's a good comforting thing to have one.
(http://www.lbasso.com/pics/cowboy_monkey-rectangle-z0-w800-h600.jpg)
History teaches me that nothing is permanent and people assume too much. Oh and mistakes are common and there is no overriding tendency to progress, or economic equality, or freedom or any of those things.
Quote from: Cain on March 23, 2007, 01:03:53 PMHistory teaches me that nothing is permanent and people assume too much. Oh and mistakes are common and there is no overriding tendency to progress, or economic equality, or freedom or any of those things.
how about other things?
technology, human lifespan/healthcare
and it doesn't even have to be good things, could be we're all marching into the abyss, 's also a story, not a very nice story though, also not really one that you'd want the larger part of humanity to blindly beileve in :)
and you say in history nothing is permanent. okay. how about "history repeats itself", that's true to some vague extent, the cycles of creation/rise and destruction/fall make sure nothing is permanent, but it's still a narrative, right?
Not necessarily.
In some parts of Africa, you're lucky to live beyond 40, when 100 years ago you'd get closer to 60. And we're not marching into an Abyss because some progress is made. Its just not necessary that it happens.
History repeating itself is a trite aphorism for those who want to control the discourse for their own ends. After all, its so much easier to convince people to do something when you can dredge up past events, even if their resemblance to current issues is only superficial at best.
Your argument is implying there is necessity for certain actions. That technology, or human welfare or something must do this or that or the other. Its never that simple. If there were rules of history, we would have found them after 2,400 years of analysis. We haven't.
Quote from: LHX on March 22, 2007, 09:14:30 PM
when you make a warning to people, it is easy to brush it off
people seem to have a 'what the hell does he know?' file folder that they can easily shift information into
if they dont put it into that category, they can easily shift it into the 'it wont happen to me' file
there is another category too: the 'let them do something about it' category
even on this board itself there is people that will tell you that you are taking the situation too seriously
the 'crash and burn' perspective
every 'crash and burn' person i ever met crashed and burned, but they burned longer than they expected
and the burning sensation was different than what they expected
it burned in places they didnt realize it could burn, and it burned longer than they had prepared themselves to handle
no amount of repression or suppression or whatever defense mechanism people try to employ to escape this situation will be sufficient
only time will tell how accurate your observation is
but if i was a betting man - i would say that anybody that doesnt take heed to the OP in this forum is in for something something
Well, so far I've talked to two group of inmates and a group of homeless people. All in their early 20s. These folks are raising the generation that follows them. I fear an emerging feedback loop that is only going to make things more difficult. In fact, one of the inmate groups pretty much told me so. They said the situation is going to get much worse over the next 5 to 10 years. And I have no reason to not believe them based on what I've seen so far.
And you are right. There has been a culture of "let them deal with it." Because it isn't pc to help, to really help people in jail or people living on the streets. They fucked up so fuck them.
The problem is, many of them were raised in a family/school culture that reinforced that. So, they were only doing what they know.
Kids are having to grow up sooner these days. I can use the school I grew up in as an example. The students are being turned into work aholics. When I was in that school I had two study halls a day, and typically I only had homework in one or two subjects a night. Today, that school has eliminated ALL study halls and my brother and sister who are currently attending that school typically have homework in 3 or 4 subjects a night. This is not an isolated school culture. Meanwhile class schedules have literally made it impossible for anyone to take band or music lessons even if they wanted to.
Kids need to be kids. The sooner we make them adults the sooner this stuff happens. And like adults, as soon as they start screwing up, they're on their own.
Quote from: triple zero on March 22, 2007, 10:05:52 PM
RWHN, you are very right.
and your writing has made me think of something. if children get wasted away in their young lives and old habits die hard, then what does this say about us? we all ended up here, does that mean we all got a fresh exciting interesting and stimulating childhood? (note that i did not necessarily say "good" or "happy".)
also, Net: lol :lol:
Maybe, maybe not. There are exceptions of course. Personally, I grew up in a family where, for the most part, I wasn't pressured to grow up in a certain way. There was some religous pressure from time to time but even then it wasn't very firm. They were more interested in me finding God on my own. I wasn't told "You need to study hard and become a Doctor/Lawyer and make lots of money." When I said I wanted to be an astronaut they didn't give me the patronizing laugh. They reinforced in me that if that was what was going to make me happy then that's what I should do or aim for. Of course, along the way, (and after a Shuttle explosion in 86) I decided on different goals for my life.
But of course that's just one case. And as I've heard in my research so far, there are kids who have a great family environment like that and still end up going of course and getting in trouble and getting lost. There are environmental factors and there are biological factors. Sometimes the biological trumps the environmental and vice versa. Sometimes they double team as in the case of some of the young ladies I interiewed at the jail.
there is no magic bullet. But, there at least has to be a few magic bbs that can start to chip away at it.
Quote from: Jenne on March 23, 2007, 01:56:46 AM
Eh, what I wrote here sounded like shite to me after I wrote it. So never mind.
Let's just say, I know where you're coming from, and I hope folks listen to it. Kids, ain't an easy equation. And I feel for ya, Rev, when you have to do what you did today...that ain't easy, either.
It's been a heavy month. Two groups of inmates and a group of homeless people. It is clear there is much work to be done in this state. But we all understand how an organization like The State is hard to change. I'm not hopeless, but I can't ignore reality either. Thankfully, the agency throwing some more green my way is going to make the home situation more comfortable. One less thing to worry about as I and my colleagues take this monster on.
Quote from: Cain on March 23, 2007, 01:18:34 PMNot necessarily.
In some parts of Africa, you're lucky to live beyond 40, when 100 years ago you'd get closer to 60. And we're not marching into an Abyss because some progress is made. Its just not necessary that it happens.
History repeating itself is a trite aphorism for those who want to control the discourse for their own ends. After all, its so much easier to convince people to do something when you can dredge up past events, even if their resemblance to current issues is only superficial at best.
Your argument is implying there is necessity for certain actions. That technology, or human welfare or something must do this or that or the other. Its never that simple. If there were rules of history, we would have found them after 2,400 years of analysis. We haven't.
we've been analysing history for 2400 years? but surely we must have gotten better at analysing history in that time?
so if nothing's permanent, does that mean our technological knowledge of electricity (for example) will some day be taken to the grave by the last falling bit of civilisation with that knowledge?
there's probably some history of technological knowledge that's been lost by old civilisations only to be rediscovered later, but has that happened a lot?
has the complete body of current knowledge of humanity been forgotten already some time in history? otherwise how can you say it's not going to be permanent?
is there really no progress in anything anywhere?
i'm asking all this mostly because i find that quite hard to believe, let alone to come to terms with [as you both seem to have done?]
What I'm getting out of this is that while things change, their effects upon us humans is varied. We can try to track some sort of narrative arc, but this is just as much of an illusion as all the other false patterns our brain tries to desperately to see.
It's the Law of Fives as related to History.
Please note, I am not trying to speak for Cain or anyone else. The above is my interpretation of the conversation so far.
that can be a awkward conclusion to come to - but it seems you might be on to something
as a side note / example - that was where Doc Howl's argument fell apart when he came by and tried to shake things up
he refuted everything being discussed on the board, but then he started making claims about events in history and archaeological finds like they actually meant something
they may be a point of reference for some people - but there is no way it is universal
it is not comfortable (especially for historians) to acknowledge the flaws in constructing a dependable version of history - but
whatever
some kids dont like giving up on santa either
Quote from: LMNO on March 23, 2007, 01:48:41 PMWhat I'm getting out of this is that while things change, their effects upon us humans is varied. We can try to track some sort of narrative arc, but this is just as much of an illusion as all the other false patterns our brain tries to desperately to see.
It's the Law of Fives as related to History.
hm, okay, this i can relate to.
so the thing is, while you can sort out all sorts of cool patterns from the past, there's no way of telling whether the story will continue similarly in the future.
the good thing about the law of fives is that it can become really almost-but-not-quite real,
the harder you look, so in case you ever need a grand narrative, just come up with something.
then i'd say better come up with one that doesn't make people want to bash eachother's heads in or sell out their bodies and minds to invisible corporations. thinking up a story in order to save another one .. kinda like 1001 nights :)
Seems like the point should be:
1. If you can avoid falling into the trap that these arcs are illusory, then you won't tend to fall into dogmatic ideology.
2. Or, you could see that they are illusory, and abandon them altogether.
Sort of like the difference between seeing that symbolism is psychological manipulation and using it to your advantage, or seeing that it's psychological and rejecting/abandoning it.
See what you want to see but know that you're seeing it because you want to. :ninja:
"want" to?
What, are you a follower of TEH SECRET (http://www.thesecret.tv/) now?
Quote from: LMNO on March 23, 2007, 02:08:40 PM
Seems like the point should be:
1. If you can avoid falling into the trap that these arcs are illusory, then you won't tend to fall into dogmatic ideology.
2. Or, you could see that they are illusory, and abandon them altogether.
Sort of like the difference between seeing that symbolism is psychological manipulation and using it to your advantage, or seeing that it's psychological and rejecting/abandoning it.
these are some potent conclusions to be coming to, man
Quote from: LMNO on March 23, 2007, 02:11:50 PM
"want" to?
What, are you a follower of TEH SECRET (http://www.thesecret.tv/) now?
Holy fuck that thing has a fkin amazing level of production for one of those. Who the hell's behind it?
I do what I can. I think I phrased the first conclusion poorly, though.
Quote from: SillyCybin on March 23, 2007, 02:18:29 PM
Quote from: LMNO on March 23, 2007, 02:11:50 PM
"want" to?
What, are you a follower of TEH SECRET (http://www.thesecret.tv/) now?
Holy fuck that thing has a fkin amazing level of production for one of those. Who the hell's behind it?
Oprah, among others.
LOL - oughta turn a profit then
i was surprised by the production in that movie too
i couldnt sit thru the whole thing
but they sure did a good job a playing up Metaphysics 101
Okay, someone help me. I need someone to tie the history discussion to my OP. I'm not saying I think it is unconnected, just that, I seem to have lost the connection.
Quote from: Cain on March 23, 2007, 08:57:05 AM
Rev, would you say there is a problem of alienation in society? Not in the strict economic sense of being removed from what it is that makes you your living, but in a more social sense? Get up at 7, be at work for nine, have half an hour off for lunch, go home, watch tv, have OK sex then go to bed. Rinse and repeat, forever.
I don't want to sound like some fucking conservative, but there does seem to be a problem when it comes to the average person and the lack of grand narratives and community in modern life. Personally, I couldn't give a shit because I get along just fine without these things. But a lot of people do seem to need them, and without them will buy into any half assed shit that makes them feel part of something. Xenophobic nationalism. Extremist movements. Religious nutwingery.
This is where it started. At the risk of provoking Cain, I can see what I think he's trying to say: That while he doesn't see a personal need for them, many people need some sort of grand narrative to find "meaning" in their lives, and will grab at anything remotely resembling it, including self-destructive things.
Cain, sorry if I got that wrong.
sorry i think i must have derailed the thread when i asked cain for clarification of "grand narrative"
the connection is that according to cain there seems to be a lack of grand narratives in current day life.
i would probably add to that, that the majority of available grand narratives are rather destructive or not very fulfilling to say the least.
in response to children being raised "hollow" as you mentioned in your OP.
now your real point seemed to be that it would be a good idea to raise children with some sort of discordian-flavour to it, as to make their lives more fulfilling see if that works?
cause i think it's obvious that the solution wouldn't really be to sell them up on some grand narrative, whether it be golden apples, baby jesus or futurism.
I'm not really even considering literally introducing Discordianism to kids. I think there are certain ideals in Discordianism that would be useful to instill in kids but I certainly wouldn't use any Discordian/BIP packaging. The schools would never let that kind of thing in.
I don't know what the answer is, I know what the problem is. I've heard it over and over again from kids and young adults. The ones who really got lost in substance abuse and other addictions had voids that needed to be filled. Most start in the family. But, it seems they can be reinforced in schools through working them too hard and not allowing for any meaningful self-discovery. This is just what I've observed in my research. Kids just want to belong to something and feel a part of something. They don't want to be isolated. If it means doing lines of coke to fit in with something, then it will be much more attractive to that sort of kid then someone who feels like they are a part of a community, whether it be family or in school.
reminds me of some native american saying he felt sorry for the white man because he would never know a tribe.
That's why gangs and gang violence are so prevalent in parts of society that have those gaps in "tribalism."
Kids are easily drawn into these choices because they choose to "belong"--to whoever will accept them. They are taught to survive, not make the best long-term choice. Survival means day -to-day, not year to year.
The clean up is a cost society hates to pay, because those writing the checks are those who were guided into choices that they may resent for their staid, predictable character, but were safer and yielded "better" more lucrative results in the meantime.
None of this shit is easy. None of this shit gets easier with time. Once you are in the middle of it, it's suck after suck. Sigh. No one tier of this is really doable, or even get-atable. It has to also come from the INSIDE of the particular microculture...not outside.
Otherwise it just looks like a finger in the hole of a breaking dam.
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on March 22, 2007, 06:56:49 PM
Okay everybody, do you really, really want to have an impact on the future of this hunk o rock? I mean, of course, besides taking up bandwidth on an internet forum? Well, this may sound very psa-cheezy but here it is, mentor a child. Seriously.
Fuck yeah. Send me a dozen of the little bastards, and a check for $20,000. I'll soften the little shits up with trenchwork for a summer. You won't recognize them when they get back...that I can promise you.
TGRR,
Knows you can't spell "tormentor" without "mentor".
I like this thread, it's bouncy.
Mentoring a child? I don't think so. I have no pitty for the majority. I was raised under presepts similar to what Rog posted above. It wasn't fun.
Truth be told however, having a shitty background doesn't have to be the end of the world. Things like physical/mental/sexual/substance abuse are not the be all end all of a person.
Point in case. I knew people in my childhood who died from smoking after 70 years of doing it, claiming, "I can't quit."
This set the standard and I was a smoker at 13. I claimed I wanted to quit the whole I time I did it and "attempted" several times but failed miserably.
Then one day I actually decided to quit because it was just too damned expensive. I quit right then and haven't bought another pack in years, nor do I ever want to.
I made the choice to quit just like they made the choice not to. Much like these child-adults make choices that land them in jail.
Granted I think it sux when children get crappy circumstances thrust upon them before they are able to even understand the repricutions, but hey mang, I been there, done that, seen the movie, got the t-shirt, puked passed out, and did it again.
You can still grow out of your shitty circumstances and in many cases be stronger and more able than those who missed out on all the abuse.
The simple fact is that moving from childhood into society starting when you enter kindergarten or pre-school is by it's very deffinition abusive. there is no way to get by unscathed or be "normal" the thing is everyone thinks they are an individual separate from the herd, especially when hitting puberty, they just don't know that everyone else feels the same way until some time down the road, usually after college.
I don't mentor children, but I do mentor people who want to better themselves and I've been doing it for a while. Some of them are young and had there issues to work through, but since they wanted something more I showed them what I could and they, in turn did what they could with it.
Some of these people could be called "kids" with the youngest one being 14 and 11 when I started mentoring her, but I don't consider her a child and I often have more respect for her than some of the ignorance I encounter in "adult society".
Help those that can be helped, so long as you are willing and able to do so.
Props on Cain's metanarative and LMNO's conclusions. They were provocative.
:rbtg:
You are a BUNDLE of contradictions, Mr. AKK.
Quote from: Jenne on March 28, 2007, 03:57:02 AM
You are a BUNDLE of contradictions, Mr. AKK.
Thank you. I pride myself on that...
or do I? (holy crap son, that was a lame pun).
Worse: it wasn't even a pun.
It was lame tho - give him half a point at least
Quote from: Ambassador KAOS on March 28, 2007, 05:37:41 AM
Quote from: Jenne on March 28, 2007, 03:57:02 AM
You are a BUNDLE of contradictions, Mr. AKK.
Thank you. I pride myself on that...
or do I? (holy crap son, that was a lame pun).
Lame, perhaps.
Pun, umm fail.
yes indeed.
total failure there.
not every word is gold, I promise that much.
:D