So, I spent the better part of the morning in the county jail talking to young inmates about substance abuse issues. When you talk about substance abuse you invariably talk about family, school, life in general. Because, it is clear this is where it all begins.
Here's a case where the BIP becomes a two-fold literal prison for folks. Being raised in an alcohol/drug ridden home. A mom and pop who don't give two shits about what their kids are doing or who they're doing it with. Just as long as they don't get dragged into it. (read, they don't have to bail them out of jail)
The funny thing, they end up in the literal jail. Some want to get help. Some want to change their bars.
But then, society and The State puts them on a waiting list.
It's clear there is much that needs to be changed for many.
Stats on 2 and 3 generations of inmates are astounding. And fairly depressing, as well.
You could almost make an argument for the "prisoner population" evolving into a new distinct social class.
Organ donor class :lulz:
Quote from: LMNO on March 23, 2007, 11:46:31 AM
You could almost make an argument for the "prisoner population" evolving into a new distinct social class.
In fact, it is an argument I will be making in my final report. I just hope the State takes me seriously.
Considering the new business of "Privatized Prisons", the free market now demands that there be a constant prisoner supply.
Quote from: LMNO on March 23, 2007, 01:34:48 PM
Considering the new business of "Privatized Prisons", the free market now demands that there be a constant prisoner supply.
And now you know why you can get 10 years just for possession of pot.
Holy shit! In this country you'd be lucky to get a £10 fine for stealing a policeman's pot :lulz:
Quote from: LMNO on March 23, 2007, 01:34:48 PM
Considering the new business of "Privatized Prisons", the free market now demands that there be a constant prisoner supply.
They seem to be doing a bit too well with the supply here in Maine. And of course the NIMBYs make it difficult for more to be built.
Might as well just start the "Escape From New York" scenario now.
Quote from: SillyCybin on March 23, 2007, 01:39:18 PM
Holy shit! In this country you'd be lucky to get a £10 fine for stealing a policeman's pot :lulz:
I wouldn't look too happy. Wackenhut, the main supplier of these work prisons, is likely to get the contract to build new ones over here, as they are tight with the Home Office. Which means they'll likely drop off a fair bit of campaign cash to both Labour and the Tories to up the sentences on minor offences.
I have no sympathy for people who end up with a fucked up life. My life as a child wasn't too swell, yet I didn't end up a neglectful, abusive asshole (ok, maybe I am, but not to those I love). I have however been told I am just like my father, and I have spent almost no time around him since my birth.
It pisses me off when people blame the environment they were raised in for their problems. If you are to stupid to see the bad things around you, and see them as unpleasant to you, then you deserve to suffer.
Quote from: Cain on March 23, 2007, 01:45:09 PM
Quote from: SillyCybin on March 23, 2007, 01:39:18 PM
Holy shit! In this country you'd be lucky to get a £10 fine for stealing a policeman's pot :lulz:
I wouldn't look too happy. Wackenhut, the main supplier of these work prisons, is likely to get the contract to build new ones over here, as they are tight with the Home Office. Which means they'll likely drop off a fair bit of campaign cash to both Labour and the Tories to up the sentences on minor offences.
Best news I've heard all day, they just gave us an excuse to up the prices on contraband :evil:
Quote from: rygD on March 23, 2007, 02:16:09 PM
I have no sympathy for people who end up with a fucked up life. My life as a child wasn't too swell, yet I didn't end up a neglectful, abusive asshole (ok, maybe I am, but not to those I love). I have however been told I am just like my father, and I have spent almost no time around him since my birth.
It pisses me off when people blame the environment they were raised in for their problems. If you are to stupid to see the bad things around you, and see them as unpleasant to you, then you deserve to suffer.
So are you saying the environment has no impact then? What would you say about a child that has no other input other than a destructive home environment? Where do they get the "positive" input and reference points that allow them to make better decisions?
Didn't you hear? If 5-year-old kids aren't smart enough to realize that the abusive environment they're totally immersed in isn't the only one they have to live in, then fuck 'em.
Oh yeah, I forgot that Barney the Dinosaur started his new series on "Your Crack Mom Probably Really Doesn't Love You All That Much." These kids really should start paying more attention.
Quote from: LMNO on March 23, 2007, 01:34:48 PM
Considering the new business of "Privatized Prisons", the free market now demands that there be a constant prisoner supply.
this is pretty much the theme of Wynton Marsalis' new album 'From the plantation to the penitentary' is about.
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on March 23, 2007, 02:29:02 PM
Quote from: rygD on March 23, 2007, 02:16:09 PM
I have no sympathy for people who end up with a fucked up life. My life as a child wasn't too swell, yet I didn't end up a neglectful, abusive asshole (ok, maybe I am, but not to those I love). I have however been told I am just like my father, and I have spent almost no time around him since my birth.
It pisses me off when people blame the environment they were raised in for their problems. If you are to stupid to see the bad things around you, and see them as unpleasant to you, then you deserve to suffer.
So are you saying the environment has no impact then? What would you say about a child that has no other input other than a destructive home environment? Where do they get the "positive" input and reference points that allow them to make better decisions?
I am aware that environment has a little to do with it, but I have met many people who have come from shit homes and refuse to be like the people they were raised by, as well as refuse to allow people to do that shit when they are around.
I also understand the child who gets the shit knocked out of him and his dinner taken away and given to the dog every night because he isn't "eating it right" and when he finally gets to eat his dinner tells everyone that his "parents are the best!".
I am also aware that some women are not permitted to leave the house for anything by the man they chose to marry.
There are many types of abuse. How I decide who is worth helping and who is not, is after they have decided to do something about it (if they have) and they have gotten help and are protected from those who would harm them and they choose to go back, or allow themselves to be abused afterward.
An example is the woman who continuously seeks out a partner that will treat her like shit and more than likely beat the shit out of her or use her in one form or another. When she asks why this happens, and is told that she picks these men that she thinks are going to "protect her" because of the attitude they present themselves with, that is not true, and when told that the men she thinks are pussies, but does have a little interest in, are going to truly protect her, and have the knowledge and ability to do so, she still goes back to the ones that are not good for her. This woman chooses dealers over cops (not that all dealers are going to treat her like shit, but the ones she picks do, and not that all cops are good, but the one in question was, and the other people she refuses to give a chance), yet everyone in her group of friends from childhood has bettered themselves in some ways, and sees how her life is going to shit.
What it comes down to is the type of personality you have. I don't care about those who won't stand up for themselves, or try to change that which they don't like.
some interesting observations
im kind of torn on the issue at this point
some people are simply not given the opportunity to even consider trying to live different
but then again - somehow some people do it anyway
what i mean is, some people do not know what 'stand up for yourself' means, and subsequently would not even know how to go about doing this 'standing up'
i find it hard to not care about those people
If you believe in the whole concept of brainwashing then you have to believe that a baby is more susceptible to it. It's basic psychology. That's why you get 7th generation sectarian haters in this country. Because that reality grid is imprinted on them from birth. There's no one will convince me that a kid who was taught to sing 'Fuck the pope' or 'The sash' when they were 3 (I've seen the proud parents showing this party trick off btw) can realistically be expected to grow up and just snap out of it.
Imprinted reality grids much harder to 'see through' than a lot of people give credit for. You can't always change someone's mind with rational debate. Sometimes things are 'ingrained'
its interesting to see the only point anyone disagrees here is on the humanitarian line.
i've had some grazes with the justice system, and a good nymber of my near and dear have had a good deal more. i have also lived in the poor quarters, incl. on the street for a time. some of the best friends i've made wandering around have been homeless, and almost all 'criminals' in one sense or another. even here in my hometown (small rural mountain region) there is def. a distinctive prison sub culture. a big issue is the cost of being in the system. many people who were broke to start have to pay (in personal experience) > $500 / month just to be on probation. as you can guess, the odds of doing something illegal to make cash and ending up back in are high. in a round about way, the profit of the prison systems is strongarmed out of the constuients. btw, i 100% agree with the statement that the prison culture has become a distinctive culture. there are def. subsections, and exceptions- but a huge portion, maybe a majority are people that really shouldn't be there.
in regards to the self responsibility issue, i say its def. degrees on both side. a friend of mine said today while discussing this topic "for every person that made a smart choice and escaped the system, there's another who made the same choice and still got sucked back in"
he should know, it happened to him a couple times before he made a clean break. and still you never know... i have footage of him being strong armed by the cops. he's been pushed down stairs. the interesting fact is he hadn't committed a crime on these occasions. every time i've been arrested (5 times or so) except for one has been on bogus charges (i did break into a friggin church, they had me there- but its one of those corporate profiting 'assemblies of god' pentecostal gigs, so i hold no remorse). its far less likely now that we are wary of the shit, but it's still possible we could be profiled and pinched for no particular reason, with the best possible outcome being misc. expenses and another note on the ol' rap sheet (i saw mine not too long ago, i actually look like a full fledged criminal on paper) and the worser outcome being prison time for no particular reason, then probation and fines.
another example is my mate, tyrone. he's in right now, i have no idea how long for. he is a perfect example of how the dice can just roll against you every time. ty is pushing (or past, i can't remember) 50. he is one of the most real, grounded men i've known. he is a true warrior, and his eyes are open. but here's why that doesn't keep him out of prison: he's poor, black, and from new york city. he simply can not function in this area. no one will hire a 50 year old black man with his dialect and accent, even without the 3 ft. dredlocks. i met him a couple of years ago when i moved into a duplex in the south (poor) end of the city proper. he lived in the other half. we 'recognized' each other the first time we meet (don't mean in some new agey past life way, i mean it in a new agey i always know when i meet somebody lucid, don't you?) and i can definitely speak for his intelligence, motives, intuition, and everything else that should be a factor. and yet he's been in prison at least 3 times since i've known him. he doesn't deal drugs, he doesn't steal. he is poor so he wanders around town with other poor folk sometimes. that's enough to invite incarceration.
there are def. repeat offenders who are just dumb, and there's no other way around it- but even in the case of utter ignorance and disregard for consequences, i still think the 'justice' system still takes advantage of the situation.
my 2cents.
Quote from: 1231 on March 25, 2007, 08:05:03 PM
(i did break into a friggin church, they had me there- but its one of those corporate profiting 'assemblies of god' pentecostal gigs, so i hold no remorse).
Why would you hold any remorse under any circumstances?
ALL religions that actually build churches are heathens.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 25, 2007, 08:07:53 PM
Quote from: 1231 on March 25, 2007, 08:05:03 PM
(i did break into a friggin church, they had me there- but its one of those corporate profiting 'assemblies of god' pentecostal gigs, so i hold no remorse).
Why would you hold any remorse under any circumstances?
ALL religions that actually build churches are heathens.
yesh, but with most of them i respect their right to be superstitious and silly. it's the ones that use NLP and other proven techniques (trance induction and whatnot) to extort the fools in the pews.... them i have issue with. =)
Quote from: 1231 on March 25, 2007, 08:17:38 PM
yesh, but with most of them i respect their right to be superstitious and silly.
More fool you, then.
Quote from: 1231 on March 25, 2007, 08:17:38 PM
it's the ones that use NLP and other proven techniques (trance induction and whatnot) to extort the fools in the pews.... them i have issue with. =)
Um, those are the FUNNIEST ones. What the hell is wrong with them? You'll be ragging on St Tilton next, won't you?
Quote from: 1231 on March 25, 2007, 08:17:38 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 25, 2007, 08:07:53 PM
Quote from: 1231 on March 25, 2007, 08:05:03 PM
(i did break into a friggin church, they had me there- but its one of those corporate profiting 'assemblies of god' pentecostal gigs, so i hold no remorse).
Why would you hold any remorse under any circumstances?
ALL religions that actually build churches are heathens.
yesh, but with most of them i respect their right to be superstitious and silly.
I can't bring myself to respect that shit.
All faithfools deserve a barstool to face.
Remorse happens to the best of us.
The best of us shake it off like an itchy nutsack and get on with what we were doing.
Quote from: SillyCybin on March 25, 2007, 08:23:39 PM
Remorse happens to the best of us.
The best of us shake it off like an itchy nutsack and get on with what we were doing.
hah! agreed.
no bigger waste than guilt.
Quote from: SillyCybin on March 25, 2007, 08:23:39 PM
I can't bring myself to respect that shit. All faithfools deserve a barstool to face.
BAH! You've never SEEN Tilton in action, have you?
Don't think I have. Who/what the fuck is Tilton
(did a google search but it came back with engineering and school links)
Quote from: SillyCybin on March 25, 2007, 08:54:41 PM
Don't think I have. Who/what the fuck is Tilton
(did a google search but it came back with engineering and school links)
http://www.weirdcrap.com/tilton/
Tilton was the Dale Earnhardt of teevee preachers. He was the guy who actually said "put your hands on the teevee".
He went crazy in the end, and that was even funnier.
Spoke in tongues too, right?