Alright, market research results are in for the day and Ambassador Kaos has decided to school you mother fuckers on some core values as it seems many of you either 1, got dropped on the head too many times as an adult or 2, had parents that didn't properly instill a sense of individuality in you and you've since been living your life as a sad excuse for a failed abortion.
Well, no more excuses. Sit down and shut up you moron.
Leadership acronym. LDRSHIP.
Loyalty Bear true faith and allegiance to the U.S. Constitution, the Army, your unit, and other soldiers.yourself and those that provide benevolence to you.
Duty Fulfill your obligations.
Respect Treat people as they should be treated. Respect everyone, be they subordinate, enemy or stupid people in large numbers.
Selfless-Service Put the welfare of the nation, the Army, and your subordinates before your own.
Honor Live up to all the Army values. Go research code of the Samarai, that's where stole this shit from anyhow.
Integrity Do what,Äôs right legally and morally... and do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the law, but don't expect people to praise your integrity you frequently go on changing the rules to suit your whims.
Personal Courage Face fear, danger, or adversity (Physical or Moral).
...that ain't no white Trash talkin redneck bear fucking hippie bullshit neither. That's straight from Ft. Benning GA, home of the US infantry, largest corperation in America.
Say what you will about American administration or having a military to begin with, but realize that your peace protests won't do much VS a bullet fired from any man who leads himself responsibly.
Further, a killer with respect and values will always be superior to one who acts out in anger.
Learn this shit and free yourself from any idea of instITution; in this manner when your safety nets fall apart you'll still be able to land on your feet.
MENTAL ENDURANCE PEOPLE, MENTAL ENDURANCE...
In the spirit of Cains post:
Quote from: Cain on April 11, 2007, 11:13:26 AM
I just want this fucking bullshit over with so we can concentrate on getting some decent writing going. BIP has hardly been busy for a few weeks and while I'm partly to blame (for not being here and not cracking down on writing my larger idea), this shit isn't helping either.
I'm not going to say you will do something and force it. But seriously, shut the fuck up. Especially you, AKK as you know what the reaction will be now. Pull some quality writing (ranting, poetry, prose, whatever) out of your arse and stick to that for a while, if you truly want to be here for any benign reason.
The rest of you, just ignore him. He's attention whoring and you are all falling for it. Don't respond to his bullshit unless its actually of some worth and merit. Come on, Pavlov's Dog here. You know the drill.
I will offer some feedback on this post.
This doesn't seem very original within this forum, but thats O.K. little is it seems.
Loyalty to yourself is all well and good, but even those who "provide benevolence" want something from you, and you can never be entirely sure of their motives. Perhaps amend to say only yourself, in this world its the only thing you rely on.
Your obligations should only be set by yourself. Any choice you make will result in consequences, and duty either is a cause of your choice or an effect of any given choice. In this forum, one of the main trains of thought (with a large consensus at least) is in the freedom for you to choose.
Respect for others is a fine ideal, but this ultimately relates to the first point. Stark perhaps, but what is respect without loyalty? The same with self-less service.
If this Infantry mantra is taken directly from code of the samurai, why not post relevant excerpts from that for discussion?
Integrity means nothing really. Integrity is a view of you held by someone else. Your personal view of yourself is again filed under Loyalty.
Im no anti-militarist, don't misunderstand me. I Just feel that the way the military is currently run (in both our countries) is one of the larger cogs in the nebulous entity we call 'The Machine'. It may well be the largest corporation, as you put it, in America, but is it the most successful? That is the important question to ask.
Afterword: Yes this is de-construction of your post, but it is in no way personally aimed at you AKK. I feel that if you work on this, with perhaps other viewpoints other than my own admittedly naive stand, you may well be able to rebuild into something more robust.
Good luck with this.
Quote from: Payne on April 11, 2007, 12:10:56 PM
In the spirit of Cains post:
If this Infantry mantra is taken directly from code of the samurai, why not post relevant excerpts from that for discussion?
You make several points that indicate you have a grasp on the material. This is good and I appreciate that. I assure you didn't mis those things but when writing a laymen document I think it's best to "keep it simple stupid".
As for posting samarai code, I'd considered it, but...
I was never a samarai, just researching it wouldn't make me feel qualified to teach it and I don't know that it's even possible to still go through the proper channels to become one.
I did do the US army thing however, and thus feel I have a minor ammount of credit to back up what I am talking about as I have not only understood the material, but also integrated it and lived it.
Further, the material was stolen, like all modern interpretations of ideals from history, but I feel that the chivalric code is lame in comparison to the samarai code.
Too many silly rules that get in the way of the underlying discipline.
But thats the point AKK, you wouldn't be teaching us the samurai code, you would be using it to back up your claim as being the source of this mantra. I don'y doubt the validity of that statement, but I do feel that in the interest of a full discussion, we need access to the material you base this on.
It underlines your point, it describes your view better, for more people, it points the way to where you are coming from.
Its why, in short, I avoid posting threads like this myself, 'cause I'm too lazy to do the transcribing. I leave that kind of stuff to Cain and read his stuff.
What do you think of the points I made? This is after all supposed to be a debate.
Oh one more thing, its only my personal view that you should include relevant excerpts from this code, due to my interest in history. You shouls always quote your sources etc. etc. and assorted bullshit.
Edit: Oh yeah, and I wanted to say that you picked out the first line I wrote in my post. I wrote the rest of it around that line. Maybe it showed up too clearly, as it was more my first reaction on reading your post.
keywords: bushido, honor, honour, 7 virtues
google and wikipedia.
thousands of articles on the subject.
My research stems back to some old tome translations from an extensive collection on Japanese history and culture that I no longer have access to as I was like 11 then, prime age for fascination with ninjas and samarai.
Kinda wish I still had those books because I'd probably get a lot more out of them these days.
Citing sources isn't really all much my thing for 3 reasons:
1) I read too much shit to remember where it all comes from and,
2) Good artists borrow, great artists steal. Some asshole was quoted saying that once, but it's not like I remember who.
3)There is nothing new under the sun. You might even quote something and some other asshole is likely to come along and pee in your cheerios by saying, "well actually, the REAL origin is..."
and detract from the point you are making.
This sarcastic asshole can be found here:
click me (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.thesimpsonsquotes.com/images/comicguypoint.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.thesimpsonsquotes.com/characters/comic-book-guy-quotes.html&h=474&w=294&sz=20&hl=en&start=1&tbnid=GEcKb2TLOc1MLM:&tbnh=129&tbnw=80&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsimpson%2527s%2Bcomic%2Bbook%2Bguy%26gbv%3D2%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den)
www.justfuckinggoogleit.com is a common answer in these here parts, I understand what you mean.
Now back to the OP, what do you think of the suggestions I made?
Quote from: Ambassador KAOS on April 11, 2007, 11:46:29 AM
Alright, market research results are in for the day and Ambassador Kaos has decided to school you mother fuckers on some core values as it seems many of you either 1, got dropped on the head too many times as an adult or 2, had parents that didn't properly instill a sense of individuality in you and you've since been living your life as a sad excuse for a failed abortion.
Well, no more excuses. Sit down and shut up you moron.
Is that supposed to be a drill instructor? More on this later.
QuoteLeadership acronym. LDRSHIP.
Loyalty Bear true faith and allegiance to the U.S. Constitution, the Army, your unit, and other soldiers.yourself and those that provide benevolence to you.
Please define ,Äútrue faith,Äù and ,Äúbenevolence,Äù as it pertains to human social interaction. ,ÄúTrue faith,Äù seems to imply unquestioning belief in the un-provable, which runs into problems, as ,Äúbenevolence,Äù appears to be a subjective judgment that varies over time.
QuoteDuty Fulfill your obligations.
Please define ,Äúobligations,Äù as it pertains to both the short-term, and the long-term, as well as the internal versus the external.
QuoteRespect Treat people as they should be treated. Respect everyone, be they subordinate, enemy or stupid people in large numbers.
Please contrast this (in particular, the italicized) with the opening salvo (I told you I,Äôd get back to it), as well as your previous actions on this board. Also, please explain why unquestioning respect is deserved in all cases.
QuoteSelfless-Service Put the welfare of the nation, the Army, and your subordinates before your own.
Please define ,Äúsubordinates,Äù, and relate it to the Hagbard Celine SNAFU principle (http://www.rawilson.com/whistlepiss.html).
QuoteHonor Live up to all the Army values. Go research code of the Samarai, that's where stole this shit from anyhow.
Please explain why this is important.
QuoteIntegrity Do what,Äôs right legally and morally... and do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the law, but don't expect people to praise your integrity you frequently go on changing the rules to suit your whims.
Please compare and contrast this with your statement about Obligations.
QuotePersonal Courage Face fear, danger, or adversity (Physical or Moral).
Please explain the best manner in which to ,Äúface,Äù such things.
QuoteFurther, a killer with respect and values will always be superior to one who acts out in anger.
Please explain how subjective (and usually self-positive) terms such as ,Äúrespect,Äù and ,Äúvalues,Äù makes one human superior to the other. For example, the SS had their own definitions of respect and values, and they lived up to them fully. Does that make them superior to others?
Again, I find them to be interperative, which is good because it shows you got the message, but I still wanted to go with the keep it simple stupid approach.
This really should be elementary material and people who need to revisit it need to: "Go sit in the corner dumb ass" as per that pic roger is fond of.
I think also, the word: "rely" as in rely on is a poor choice in wording. The goal of the excersize is to remove reliances on outside institutions. and thus disagree there. You are correct that you cannot know the motives of others, but so long as they are providing benevolence to you, then their motives are plus not minus in your subjectivity by definition.
This sense of loyalty as I refered to it (to clear this up) does not extend past the point of lack of benevolence, if something is a poison to your being, whether it be something outside you or even your own actions, then you need to stop doing it.
I also have to disagree that integrity means nothing. It is maintaining the wisdom to do the right thing.
Saying on paper "I will not rape infants" and then doing it out of compulsion could be considered a lack of integrity. Possessing the wisdom when to change the rules and how, is also part of integrity.
I think you're confusing the idea that outside perception is integrity for the concept of honor.
Honor is commonly confused as reputation, but it just as interperative as the abstract concept of love and similarly exists with or without the consent of other bystandards.
As far as obligations only being set by yourself, this is a good point, but it draws on the argument of free will VS determinism. I agree that people should decide their own level of involvement, but it's also true that everybody is a slave to someone or something, tangible or not, that is beyond their control, even if it is merely to their own will or lack thereof.
I agree in that people need to be responsible for the obligations they pick for themselves and ignore outside restrictions set upon them by societal standards, but again, this is subjective interperetation, and even if I agree with it, it's beyond the scope.
Quote from: LMNO on April 11, 2007, 01:57:21 PM
Quote from: Ambassador KAOS on April 11, 2007, 11:46:29 AM
Alright, market research results are in for the day and Ambassador Kaos has decided to school you mother fuckers on some core values as it seems many of you either 1, got dropped on the head too many times as an adult or 2, had parents that didn't properly instill a sense of individuality in you and you've since been living your life as a sad excuse for a failed abortion.
Well, no more excuses. Sit down and shut up you moron.
Is that supposed to be a drill instructor? More on this later.
QuoteLeadership acronym. LDRSHIP.
Loyalty Bear true faith and allegiance to the U.S. Constitution, the Army, your unit, and other soldiers.yourself and those that provide benevolence to you.
Please define ,Äútrue faith,Äù and ,Äúbenevolence,Äù as it pertains to human social interaction. ,ÄúTrue faith,Äù seems to imply unquestioning belief in the un-provable, which runs into problems, as ,Äúbenevolence,Äù appears to be a subjective judgment that varies over time.
QuoteDuty Fulfill your obligations.
Please define ,Äúobligations,Äù as it pertains to both the short-term, and the long-term, as well as the internal versus the external.
QuoteRespect Treat people as they should be treated. Respect everyone, be they subordinate, enemy or stupid people in large numbers.
Please contrast this (in particular, the italicized) with the opening salvo (I told you I,Äôd get back to it), as well as your previous actions on this board. Also, please explain why unquestioning respect is deserved in all cases.
QuoteSelfless-Service Put the welfare of the nation, the Army, and your subordinates before your own.
Please define ,Äúsubordinates,Äù, and relate it to the Hagbard Celine SNAFU principle (http://www.rawilson.com/whistlepiss.html).
QuoteHonor Live up to all the Army values. Go research code of the Samarai, that's where stole this shit from anyhow.
Please explain why this is important.
QuoteIntegrity Do what,Äôs right legally and morally... and do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the law, but don't expect people to praise your integrity you frequently go on changing the rules to suit your whims.
Please compare and contrast this with your statement about Obligations.
QuotePersonal Courage Face fear, danger, or adversity (Physical or Moral).
Please explain the best manner in which to ,Äúface,Äù such things.
QuoteFurther, a killer with respect and values will always be superior to one who acts out in anger.
Please explain how subjective (and usually self-positive) terms such as ,Äúrespect,Äù and ,Äúvalues,Äù makes one human superior to the other. For example, the SS had their own definitions of respect and values, and they lived up to them fully. Does that make them superior to others?
These questions all have subjective answers and you need to answer them for yourself (I will not be pulled in by such maddness).
What works for me and is beneficial in my life may well prove to be poison to your existence.
This is why humans cannot get along nor is there any universal grid to subscribe to beyond what we all percieve as consensus reality.
How I feel and interperet the message is beyond the scope of what I had intended to show here.
I am reading that link now though, pretty interesting so far, I'll get back to you on my thoughts on it.
I want your subjective answers. Why can't you see that?
It is possible to talk objectively about subjective things, after all.
I mean, one of the points of the BIP (and much of RAW) is that your entire existence is in some way subjective.
Is this how it's gonna be every time I ask questions about your posts?
You make some good points. So are you saying these are the elements of leadership? If so you are missing the intangibles. The je ne sais quois that makes some people leaders, and others, well, who try to hard. You have it or you don't in my estimation. I think you could find someone who fulfills your acronym but still is a failed leader because of a lack of the leadership intangible quality. A combination of personality traits and aspects that combine for leadership ability. But, that's just my experience.
QuoteWhat works for me and is beneficial in my life may well prove to be poison to your existence.
Trust me, there is literally nothing you can say on a message board that will "poison my existence." You may not have intened it that way, but that is the height of arrogance.
QuoteThis is why humans cannot get along nor is there any universal grid to subscribe to beyond what we all percieve as consensus reality.
First off, your use of the word "nor" completely screws the syntax.
Second, these appear to be two separate thoughts.
Third, are you saying that because people have different beliefs that can't get along?
Fourth, consensus reality is not a universal grid, it's an extremely imperfect compromise.
QuoteHow I feel and interperet the message is beyond the scope of what I had intended to show here.
Why? Are you scared to reveal your intellectual process?
~~~I use the word rely in the context of only being able to rely on yourself. This is the ultimate in removing reliances on outside institutions. I still don't really know what you mean by benevolence, but by rewarding anyone who helps you with loyalty, only to have them use that against in same way (Checkers=/=Chess) would strike me as not only stupid, but possibly fatal in the context in which this is placed (a mantra directly sourced from warrior codes).
As an example I will use the Vietnamese during the war there that would lead U.S. patrols into ambushes, while "guiding" them through hostile territory. These Vietnamese were being benevolent to the U.S. Army, but were in fact brutally betraying them.
My belief is that my integrety is directly linked to my choices, as I only make choices that will benefit me, which fits into my own "code if you will" then I always have Integrity. Integrity is, in essance, consistancy. I will let that point go however, what the problem is is the use of the word "right". What is "right" and "wrong" defined by?
Integrity (consistancy) is a virtue that others see in individuals. It is not really something we ever see in ourselves, because we always do what we believe is right. The NAZIs did not believe they were evil after all.
Honour is very much, as you say, based on reputation, but it is something that we use to measure ourselves. I made no mention of honour in my first post, because I didn't feel it neccesary to do so. Honour is again based on a personal "code". If you have Honour, as in something that others perceive in you, then they are measuring you against their own "codes", not yours. Do you really care what others think about you?
The philosophy that I subscribe to is that I am enslaved. By myself. By my possessions and the flotsam and jetsam of life. But to no one else. I will look out for friends and family yes, but only when it will benefit me. Very stark yet again, but I count love as a benefit too, so it's not so bad. I also totally believe that nothing is predetermined. Therefore any obligations or duties are self imposed through my choices.
I think a lot of this boils down more succintly into either "think for yourself, schmuck!" or "kill yourself, fuck the body", but thats maybe just me.
:lulz:
Quote from: LMNO on April 11, 2007, 02:17:51 PM
I want your subjective answers. Why can't you see that?
It is possible to talk objectively about subjective things, after all.
I mean, one of the points of the BIP (and much of RAW) is that your entire existence is in some way subjective.
Is this how it's gonna be every time I ask questions about your posts?
Oh, and here I thought you were joining the fray of dissecting this thing VS curiosity of where I stand on shit.
Read that article BTW, reminds me a lot of my research on hume's fork.
I'd say in reference to the term "damned thing" it's whatever you want to call it, and as long as those who you are communicating it to get a sufficient estimation of what you are communicating, then it really doesn't matter what it's called. Shakespeare. "A rose by any other name..."
Where I stand on subjective issues is completely transitory based on indiviual circumstance with history factoring in at a low percentage but increasing exponentially with repeated patterns.
Hypothetical Example:
I meet a man on the street, he is grumpy and practically shoves me out of the way. "must be having a bad day"
Later I meet that man on the bus. I decide sit next to him because he is mumbling to himself grumpilly as I'd rather not deal with his problem.
I meet him again later, this time it is at the bagel shop, he is preparing my sandwhich, is curt, presents me with a poor quality product and manages to pull of one or two social faux paux's. "must be he's going through a rough patch"
I see him later at a bar. I decide not to disturb him because my opinion of him is that he is a bordeline suck human being. Later he gets hammered and starts some trouble with me and my friends who are in the mdst of an otherwise good time, and gets thrown out of the bar.
"This man is a waste of skin"
I avoid the bagel shop because I'd rather pay for shitty service and product but I eventually wander back because I forgot I was pissed off at him.
He emphatically appollogizes and tells me big sob story.
"this man has made many poor choices that have led him to a shitty end. I'm not currently pissed at him, but I really don't want to waste my efforts on a belligerant drunkard."
I see the man again, this time he is coming out of an AA meeting. "good for him, at least he's pretending to make an attempt."
I see the man again, he does a service for me that I am happy with, my opinion increases proportionately...
this system continues throughout the duration of me interacting with a human. There are infinite variables and much of it also comes from my own subjectivity too.
Assume I was already pissed about something else when this asshole started a fight while he was drunk... it likely would have taken a much longer time for his bad mojo to bleed off.
So you see, I can't commit to one set pattern of doing things especially since I make it a habbit to undermine my own bullshit in search for newer ground to cover.
How others evaluate my systems are also subjective to there patterns. I've met people who swore I was kind and gentle and others who swear I'm hot headed and violent. I suppose it's all in context and viewpoint.
I have some tendancies, but even then, they are just tendancies, meaning they are prone to falling short of being a standard. EX: genius IQ man in the field of electricity takes his cell phone to the kiosk and says, it doesn't work. The man opens the phone, flips the battery around so the poles are in the correct location and hands it back to the man who just finished wiring a hotel earlier that day.
This also brings up another point about how people immeadiately drop to teh lowes common denominator when you are providing a service for them, askk anyone in service or sales and I'm certain that they'll concur that most people are to lazy to use their brains when being waited on.
I do it too, and so does everyone else... ever pull up to the drive thru and not know what you wanted to order?
I dont think that particularly answers the question posed. A dissection, as you call it, of your original post requires us to be able to put it in a framework we understand. It requires subjective material from you.
We do not need a list that you say will make us strong, like the good ol' infantry. What we want is what this mantra means to personally. How you apply it. And I don't mean necessarily in your relation with a fictional grumpy man.
How exactly would you apply your wisdom to know when the time had come to change the rules, whilst still remaining honourable and loyal and all that other stuff?
It sounds that this could mean absolutely anything you want it to, which is not very useful.
But if you could, subjectively, explain to us how this works for you, maybe it will become clearer.
As LMNO has said, the keystone of the BIP and RAW is subjectivity. That is our paint and canvas. Now make us a masterpiece!
Quote from: Ambassador KAOS on April 11, 2007, 02:46:14 PM
Oh, and here I thought you were joining the fray of dissecting this thing VS curiosity of where I stand on shit.
The two are intertwined. I am dissecting this thing. You used (as you admitted) purposefully vague and undefined terms. These terms mean one thing to me, and quite possibly a completely different thing to you. I cannot possible dissect your work until I know what these terms mean to you. Otherwise, I am dissecting my own interpretation, which I don't really need you for.
QuoteI'd say in reference to the term "damned thing" it's whatever you want to call it, and as long as those who you are communicating it to get a sufficient estimation of what you are communicating, then it really doesn't matter what it's called. Shakespeare. "A rose by any other name..."
I disagree. If you consider "true faith" to those who are "benevolent" to be a positive, then for me to also consider it a positive, I would need to know your definitions, because I consider it to be borderline meaningless, tending towards negative.
It is as if you were defining "rose" to mean something that smells sweet, and I was defining "rose" to mean something with thorns. Without your context, your meaning becomes distorted. And if you are not concerned with conveying accurate meaning, why bother posting?
QuoteWhere I stand on subjective issues is completely transitory based on indiviual circumstance with history factoring in at a low percentage but increasing exponentially with repeated patterns.
Yes, we have all come to the fairly obvious conclusion that subjective opinions are subject to change dependent upon experience. This is nothing new.
The point is, of course, to determine your definitions
right now, so we can understand your message as you intend it
right now. Trust me when I say we don't hold it against anyone if they want to change their mind. In fact, we dig on it. So open up, man, and communicate.
Quote from: Payne on April 11, 2007, 02:35:24 PM
As an example I will use the Vietnamese during the war there that would lead U.S. patrols into ambushes, while "guiding" them through hostile territory. These Vietnamese were being benevolent to the U.S. Army, but were in fact brutally betraying them.(1)
My belief is that my integrety is directly linked to my choices, as I only make choices that will benefit me, which fits into my own "code if you will" then I always have Integrity. Integrity is, in essance, consistancy. I will let that point go however, what the problem is is the use of the word "right". What is "right" and "wrong" defined by?(2)
Integrity (consistancy) is a virtue that others see in individuals. It is not really something we ever see in ourselves, because we always do what we believe is right. The NAZIs did not believe they were evil after all.(3)
Honour is very much, as you say, based on reputation, but it is something that we use to measure ourselves. I made no mention of honour in my first post, because I didn't feel it neccesary to do so. Honour is again based on a personal "code". If you have Honour, as in something that others perceive in you, then they are measuring you against their own "codes", not yours. Do you really care what others think about you? (4)
The philosophy that I subscribe to is that I am enslaved. By myself. By my possessions and the flotsam and jetsam of life. But to no one else. I will look out for friends and family yes, but only when it will benefit me. Very stark yet again, but I count love as a benefit too, so it's not so bad. I also totally believe that nothing is predetermined. Therefore any obligations or duties are self imposed through my choices. (5)
I think a lot of this boils down more succintly into either "think for yourself, schmuck!" or "kill yourself, fuck the body", but thats maybe just me.(6)
:lulz:
1) this would be a poor choice in subordinates. In this circumstance, fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. In circumstances of war it's best to keep a tight run ship and keep everything internal as far as governing goes.
2) integrity isn't just consistency, you have to also have to possess the wisdom to know when it's a good time to change and how to go about doing so. Consistency can be abused to be lacking in integrity (following the letter of the law and still dissobeying the spirit of it). Right and wrong is defined by whatever entity you are a slave to (money, boss, free will, etc.)
3) I think some of the nazi's had a good idea that something was bad news at some point but found ways to ignore it in favor of other things tey wanted to believe (jews are evil , so they deserve to die, over killing is not nice) Integrity can be kept track of internally if you hone your self monitoring skills and thus does not require an outside observer to exist, though without one, their would be no need for it.
4) I said honor is confused often with reputation... Honor is possessed without outside observers in the form of self image, though honor cannot be containted to this deffinition alone. Honor, like integrity however, is of little use without an outside observer.
5) I don't argue with that and agree with it and subscribe to it on many levels, but it's still an opinion.
6) I'd say these points are relavent to discussion but not what I was intending to impress. Those things apply more to the interperative aspect rather than the subject matter.
I'm gonna leave this to others now, he's far more experienced at it.
I'm trying to entice you into showing some subjectivity, rather than just shooting down arguments. I fail. So I go.
Good luck with this though. Once more stuff is dragged from you, by wild horses one presumes, we will have content, and we will have a ray of sunshine.
2 & 3:
If one's wisdom is subjective, then one's sense of integrity is also subjective, is it not?
Quote from: LMNO on April 11, 2007, 03:02:06 PM
Quote from: Ambassador KAOS on April 11, 2007, 02:46:14 PM
Oh, and here I thought you were joining the fray of dissecting this thing VS curiosity of where I stand on shit.
The two are intertwined. I am dissecting this thing. You used (as you admitted) purposefully vague and undefined terms. These terms mean one thing to me, and quite possibly a completely different thing to you. I cannot possible dissect your work until I know what these terms mean to you. Otherwise, I am dissecting my own interpretation, which I don't really need you for.
(1)
QuoteI'd say in reference to the term "damned thing" it's whatever you want to call it, and as long as those who you are communicating it to get a sufficient estimation of what you are communicating, then it really doesn't matter what it's called. Shakespeare. "A rose by any other name..."
I disagree. If you consider "true faith" to those who are "benevolent" to be a positive, then for me to also consider it a positive, I would need to know your definitions, because I consider it to be borderline meaningless, tending towards negative.
It is as if you were defining "rose" to mean something that smells sweet, and I was defining "rose" to mean something with thorns. Without your context, your meaning becomes distorted. And if you are not concerned with conveying accurate meaning, why bother posting?
(2)
QuoteWhere I stand on subjective issues is completely transitory based on indiviual circumstance with history factoring in at a low percentage but increasing exponentially with repeated patterns.
Yes, we have all come to the fairly obvious conclusion that subjective opinions are subject to change dependent upon experience. This is nothing new.
The point is, of course, to determine your definitions right now, so we can understand your message as you intend it right now. Trust me when I say we don't hold it against anyone if they want to change their mind. In fact, we dig on it. So open up, man, and communicate.
(3)
1) didn't really see it from that angle, thanks for the explanation.
2)true, context is everything... perhaps instead of "sufficient estimation"
I should have said "elemental (or critical, depending on the nature of the topic) understanding"
3)Pardon me if I wasn't so forthright and eager to jump out onto the into the firing range again :mrgreen:
Generally I find for my writing, I make it a point to not be specific to allow for the subject matter to be as universally understood as possible by allowing for open interperetation of the piece; ie "it is whatever you think it means, but I wanted to show you this to see where it took you". This is a habbit that comes from writing songs for years and not essays for this forum.
I'll make it a point to attempt to tailor my writings here more for the readers of them to continue with the theme of playing to the audience which is far more important than if anyone actually gets what you are saying or even understands the message at all as if they really care they'll figure it out for themselves eventually in their own time.
In this fashion do you have any suggestions on how to appraoch that whole ball of wax? It's hard for me to relate to that idea because I generally make it a habbit to undermine anything I start to take "too seriously" as soon as I spot it.
Being universal and interperative has traditionally allowed me to work primarilly on the them angle to win hearts and minds, but it seems like this approach would require something quite different.
Quote from: LMNO on April 11, 2007, 03:21:01 PM
2 & 3:
If one's wisdom is subjective, then one's sense of integrity is also subjective, is it not?
yeah but that doesn't mean people still don't play games with themselves and justify bullshit that they know to be horse hockey.
One of my more potent experiences was learning to trust in my training when I could not trust in myself.
Yourself will fail on occasion, to live up to it's own ethical standards, in my experience.
Quote from: Payne on April 11, 2007, 03:19:50 PM
I'm gonna leave this to others now, he's far more experienced at it.
I'm trying to entice you into showing some subjectivity, rather than just shooting down arguments. I fail. So I go.
Good luck with this though. Once more stuff is dragged from you, by wild horses one presumes, we will have content, and we will have a ray of sunshine.
:D and I thought was being forthcoming =P
Quote from: Ambassador KAOS on April 11, 2007, 11:46:29 AM
Alright, market research results are in for the day and Ambassador Kaos has decided to school you mother fuckers on some core values as it seems many of you either 1, got dropped on the head too many times as an adult or 2, had parents that didn't properly instill a sense of individuality in you and you've since been living your life as a sad excuse for a failed abortion.
Well, no more excuses. Sit down and shut up you moron.
Leadership acronym. LDRSHIP.
Loyalty Bear true faith and allegiance to the U.S. Constitution, the Army, your unit, and other soldiers.yourself and those that provide benevolence to you.
Duty Fulfill your obligations.
Respect Treat people as they should be treated. Respect everyone, be they subordinate, enemy or stupid people in large numbers.
Selfless-Service Put the welfare of the nation, the Army, and your subordinates before your own.
Honor Live up to all the Army values. Go research code of the Samarai, that's where stole this shit from anyhow.
Integrity Do what,Äôs right legally and morally... and do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the law, but don't expect people to praise your integrity you frequently go on changing the rules to suit your whims.
Personal Courage Face fear, danger, or adversity (Physical or Moral).
...that ain't no white Trash talkin redneck bear fucking hippie bullshit neither. That's straight from Ft. Benning GA, home of the US infantry, largest corperation in America.
Say what you will about American administration or having a military to begin with, but realize that your peace protests won't do much VS a bullet fired from any man who leads himself responsibly.
Further, a killer with respect and values will always be superior to one who acts out in anger.
Learn this shit and free yourself from any idea of instITution; in this manner when your safety nets fall apart you'll still be able to land on your feet.
MENTAL ENDURANCE PEOPLE, MENTAL ENDURANCE...
what
This rant of AKK is like AKK trying to lead a pack of flaming cats on leashes to attract moths while dosed in white gas and carrying a powder keg.
You're in Discordia now. This is not the army. We form connections based on merits and personal likes and dislikes.
As an ambassador, you should know that our Cabals comprise only those who agree with its Episkopos. Therefore, represent with a more nuclear model. This is not a city-state.
Do you really think we care about any group other than those that we choose?
Do you really think we're all that hierarchal?
Communication is only possible between equals.
If you can't be specific or if you must always be vague, WAYSA?
Srsly. The age of the prophetess uttering nonsense and people believing it to mean something ended when you logged in here. Go fuck with EB&G if you want to be all vague and honored as a sublime prophet rather than flamed here. We are non-prophet and irreligious.
And one of my most potent experiences is that it's all me, babe. I am the master of my universe. Next to Nothing I want happens unless I do it.
I do not consider you to be my equal. So, why I am not telling you to :fuckoff:?
Umm.... (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=9202.0)
Quote from: Ambassador KAOS on April 11, 2007, 03:32:20 PMIn this fashion do you have any suggestions on how to appraoch that whole ball of wax? It's hard for me to relate to that idea because I generally make it a habbit to undermine anything I start to take "too seriously" as soon as I spot it.
Two options (well, more, but these are the two I'm offereing):
1. You can keep your original writing style, but answer questions about your subjective interpretations.
2. You can write in e-prime, effectively giving a heads-up to everyone that these are subjective thoughts.
QuoteBeing universal and interperative has traditionally allowed me to work primarilly on the them angle to win hearts and minds, but it seems like this approach would require something quite different.
But as we already discussed, it is not universal, and it is poor communication, as it encourages solipsism.
Quote from: Ambassador KAOS on April 11, 2007, 03:34:51 PM
Quote from: LMNO on April 11, 2007, 03:21:01 PM
2 & 3:
If one's wisdom is subjective, then one's sense of integrity is also subjective, is it not?
yeah but that doesn't mean people still don't play games with themselves and justify bullshit that they know to be horse hockey.
One of my more potent experiences was learning to trust in my training when I could not trust in myself.
Yourself will fail on occasion, to live up to it's own ethical standards, in my experience.
While some people play games, others ttruly believe in wisdom that may oppose yours. The argument stands unanswered.
Also, how do you know you can trust your training? And waht exactly
is this training?
Quote from: saint aini on April 11, 2007, 03:39:27 PM
And one of my most potent experiences is that it's all me, babe. I am the master of my universe. Next to Nothing I want happens unless I do it.
despite the rash of the rest of this post this stood out and your awareness makes me like you some...
I don't credit anyone with knowing anything they don't demonstrate. Please excuse my lack of faith in bipedals as a whole, they usually dissappoint me.
Quote from: Cain on April 11, 2007, 03:43:37 PM
Umm.... (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=9202.0)
thanks for the article. good read, I eat this shit up often. I appreciate that you took the time to demonstrate those points within the article.
I have a good chunk of this going for me (always room for improvement though) but my big fail in this is that I suxxorz at the eye contact.
I compensate for this with the sunglasses and goggles for live shows. I have studied some lie detection techniques and such which only increased my overall paranoia about how much my eyes betray of my thoughts.
Silly crutch I suppose, but shit, whatever works for now.
Quote from: LMNO on April 11, 2007, 03:46:15 PM
While some people play games, others truly believe in wisdom that may oppose yours. The argument stands unanswered.
Also, how do you know you can trust your training? And waht exactly is this training?
If they have beliefs that oppose mine then that doesn't make them wrong, nor do I take offense to them. I'm excessively liberal in how people want to lead their lives so long as they are supporting it through their own blood sweat and tears.
I don't usually get cranky until they start pushing their shit on me or attempt to fuck with my methods (by this I mean, not sharing but imposing). This applies to the usual social taboos of sex, drugs, religion and politics and probably a bunch of others.
How do I know I can trust my training? Well, truly, trusting in anything completely gets you in a bad way in my experience.
Like most humans I am content to wander the earth with my hands on my balls and a dopey grin on my face until some shit lands in my lap.
In crisis my training usually takes the form of a pragmattic philosophy and runs down the list:
Assess the threat
Fight or flight
assess the damage
damage control
Learn form the crisis
Refortify stronger
complexity may allow for various strategies to take place within that outline.
Reacting to adversity is something I've found can only really be meditated on for so long and quickly you will reach a point that trial by fire is the only way to advance this skill...
ie, booklearning can not take you all the way on this one unlike many other skills that can be achieved to near mastery from booklearning alone (although hands on is most always preffered for expedience and experimentation that includes variables like potential crisis).
With all due respect, you post didn't answer the current questions at hand.
1. If wisdom is subjective, and intergrity is subjective, then those who believe in their personal wisdom, and keep their personal integrity itact are ok in you book, right?
And while there are those who knowingly delude and/or try to rationalize their lack (or don't follow) their personal wisdom and break their personal intergrity, there are those who believe and keep intact, even if their personal wisdom and integrity are different than yours.
And you have said that you do not take offense to that.
So then, you would be ok with those SS troops that believed their wisdom and kept their integrity intact?
2. While not trusting in anything completely, how do you mostly know you can trust your training?
Quote from: LMNO on April 11, 2007, 04:46:42 PM
With all due respect, you post didn't answer the current questions at hand.
1. If wisdom is subjective, and intergrity is subjective, then those who believe in their personal wisdom, and keep their personal integrity itact are ok in you book, right?
And while there are those who knowingly delude and/or try to rationalize their lack (or don't follow) their personal wisdom and break their personal intergrity, there are those who believe and keep intact, even if their personal wisdom and integrity are different than yours.
And you have said that you do not take offense to that.
So then, you would be ok with those SS troops that believed their wisdom and kept their integrity intact?
2. While not trusting in anything completely, how do you mostly know you can trust your training?
So then, you would be ok with those SS troops that believed their wisdom and kept their integrity intact?
ermmm.... SS troops, are you reffering to a specific incident I can read an article on? (current events = I fail) if so I can give you an opinion based on the article, but that would be with the understanding that I'd have to take the media's spin on it as fact.
I can entertain that idea so long as it's understood that it's usually my firm opinion that the media is overall corrupt and specializes in spin and presents not always so true "facts" sometimes called lies even (I
m not to the point of tinfoil hat conspiracy monger mind you).
I happen to have known several journalists in my day and each one of them proved to be a scumbag I refused to associate with... just a personal history note...
Wait.. I did know one I liked, he was big into hunter thompson, wanted to be him even, but has since given up on that(I think). Probably best for him, too many pills.
In most cases in crisis situation however, I have to ask myself if the ends justify the means by factoring in what I consider to be "acceptable loss" as part of the equation.
My "acceptable loss" tolerance is very low when concerning myself by contrast of what I am willing to allow for external situations.
Cold hearted, sure, but to do otherwise from my angle is to spend your life crying about how the children are starving in africa rather than get to work growing them some friggen corn.
2. trusting training...
well, it works in practice. I've used it and have yet to find a better method. I'm not perfect, mistakes are made sometimes and sometimes that carries a hefty price, but much like Cain's article linked above, you don't flinch or appologize or whatever, you just soldier on. That's where the title for that article I did came from "Don't ever let them see you cheat".
My clue isn't any better than yours, and even, then, what I think I know is just that. I can give someone advice but the truth is there is no way to guarantee that the same will hold true for the advisee and there is no one "right way".
Again, infinite factors that cannot be accounted for. What I percieve is just my take on things and like everyone else I don't really have a clue as to what is really going on.
The thing is, it certainly beats odds in contrast to panicking and escalating things, in my experience.
Ok, first off: Schutzstaffel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schutzstaffel).
Second, you keep mentioning "crisis situation". Why? Does your original post not apply in non-crisis situations?
Quote from: LMNO on April 11, 2007, 05:33:30 PM
Ok, first off: Schutzstaffel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schutzstaffel).
Second, you keep mentioning "crisis situation". Why? Does your original post not apply in non-crisis situations?
no it does, but I was reffering to when my pragmatism gets the helm. Otherwise like I said, I'm just another happy and dopey walking across this rock until a pile of shit lands in my lap.
Thresh hold for crisis is different for different people as well.
Tell an anorexic chic she looks fat and it may well kill her.
That's beside the point.
The idea is to extend the mental endurance of the reader with an understanding of these values, increase the threshold of what people can absorb without freaking out by having systems in place to short circuit an emotional response that results in emotional escalation.
To give them the illusion of control over their own lives. It's straight up propoganda, I even posted that in the title.
That kinda lends itself to some of my interpretations on the BIP, that you cannot escape, in this case, the need for some system (or perhaps the need to be a slave to something in general). All people have them, even if their system is designed to be disorganized and adaptative, it's still a system, and they will never be free of it.
The illusion of control makes people happier. The constant realization of dominance results in fear and is the leading cause violent crimes (especially concerning suicide) according to my informants. (therapist friend)
I like happy neighbors, not criminally insane ones... at least most days. Some excitement is nice.
Quote from: Ambassador KAOS on April 11, 2007, 01:31:08 PM
keywords: bushido, honor, honour, 7 virtues
google and wikipedia.
thousands of articles on the subject.
My research stems back to some old tome translations from an extensive collection on Japanese history and culture that I no longer have access to as I was like 11 then, prime age for fascination with ninjas and samarai.
Kinda wish I still had those books because I'd probably get a lot more out of them these days.
Citing sources isn't really all much my thing for 3 reasons:
1) I read too much shit to remember where it all comes from and,
2) Good artists borrow, great artists steal. Some asshole was quoted saying that once, but it's not like I remember who.
3)There is nothing new under the sun. You might even quote something and some other asshole is likely to come along and pee in your cheerios by saying, "well actually, the REAL origin is..."
and detract from the point you are making.
This sarcastic asshole can be found here:
click me (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.thesimpsonsquotes.com/images/comicguypoint.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.thesimpsonsquotes.com/characters/comic-book-guy-quotes.html&h=474&w=294&sz=20&hl=en&start=1&tbnid=GEcKb2TLOc1MLM:&tbnh=129&tbnw=80&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsimpson%2527s%2Bcomic%2Bbook%2Bguy%26gbv%3D2%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den)
please edit this post to the format
[url=hugebigfuckinglink]click me[/url] whole page is unreadable - this will fix it
Waiting for an aswer to the Schutzstaffel from you.
And if the point of the Original post is to increase mental endurance without freaking them out, you must be hanging out with some very weak minded people.
I'm afraid your original post didn't tax the mental endurance of anyone here. And due to the vague nature of the language, I doubt it would tax anyones', due to the solipsistic nature I was referring to earlier.
Without knowledge of your definitions, people will interpret the original post in terms that are most comfortable for them, agree with you, and then believe that they are wise, integrity-filled people. Even if that is not so. All because you didn't provide definitions.
It isn't the final result that toughens people up mentally; it's the process getting there. If you only post the result and refuse to engage people in the process, you won't get any results.
Quote from: SillyCybin on April 11, 2007, 05:49:49 PM
Quote from: Ambassador KAOS on April 11, 2007, 01:31:08 PM
keywords: bushido, honor, honour, 7 virtues
google and wikipedia.
thousands of articles on the subject.
My research stems back to some old tome translations from an extensive collection on Japanese history and culture that I no longer have access to as I was like 11 then, prime age for fascination with ninjas and samarai.
Kinda wish I still had those books because I'd probably get a lot more out of them these days.
Citing sources isn't really all much my thing for 3 reasons:
1) I read too much shit to remember where it all comes from and,
2) Good artists borrow, great artists steal. Some asshole was quoted saying that once, but it's not like I remember who.
3)There is nothing new under the sun. You might even quote something and some other asshole is likely to come along and pee in your cheerios by saying, "well actually, the REAL origin is..."
and detract from the point you are making.
This sarcastic asshole can be found here:
click me (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.thesimpsonsquotes.com/images/comicguypoint.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.thesimpsonsquotes.com/characters/comic-book-guy-quotes.html&h=474&w=294&sz=20&hl=en&start=1&tbnid=GEcKb2TLOc1MLM:&tbnh=129&tbnw=80&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsimpson%2527s%2Bcomic%2Bbook%2Bguy%26gbv%3D2%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den)
please edit this post to the format [url=hugebigfuckinglink]click me[/url] whole page is unreadable - this will fix
thanks
Quote from: LMNO on April 11, 2007, 05:58:03 PM
Waiting for an aswer to the Schutzstaffel from you.
And if the point of the Original post is to increase mental endurance without freaking them out, you must be hanging out with some very weak minded people.
I'm afraid your original post didn't tax the mental endurance of anyone here. And due to the vague nature of the language, I doubt it would tax anyones', due to the solipsistic nature I was referring to earlier.
Without knowledge of your definitions, people will interpret the original post in terms that are most comfortable for them, agree with you, and then believe that they are wise, integrity-filled people. Even if that is not so. All because you didn't provide definitions.
It isn't the final result that toughens people up mentally; it's the process getting there. If you only post the result and refuse to engage people in the process, you won't get any results.
pardon.. the post wasn't supposed to tax anyone, I thought a couple had already blown their stack and this might reallign a cog or two (there's several pretty emotionally charged posts if you dig around, but I'd just recomend you save yourself the time and skip that) in either that they might find it usefull or might find it usefull to know that I was aware of this.
I'll post about the article in a sec, temporary room mate crisis (kinda severe personal issue that needs addressing.)
Quotethe post wasn't supposed to tax anyone, I thought a couple had already blown their stack and this might reallign a cog or two
I see what you're getting at. However, like I said,
Quotedue to the vague nature of the language, I doubt it would tax anyones', due to the solipsistic nature I was referring to earlier.
Without knowledge of your definitions, people will interpret the original post in terms that are most comfortable for them, agree with you, and then believe that they are wise, integrity-filled people. Even if that is not so. All because you didn't provide definitions.
It isn't the final result that toughens people up mentally; it's the process getting there. If you only post the result and refuse to engage people in the process, you won't get any results.
Quote from: LMNO on April 11, 2007, 06:19:39 PM
Quotethe post wasn't supposed to tax anyone, I thought a couple had already blown their stack and this might reallign a cog or two
I see what you're getting at. However, like I said,
Quotedue to the vague nature of the language, I doubt it would tax anyones', due to the solipsistic nature I was referring to earlier.
Without knowledge of your definitions, people will interpret the original post in terms that are most comfortable for them, agree with you, and then believe that they are wise, integrity-filled people. Even if that is not so. All because you didn't provide definitions.
It isn't the final result that toughens people up mentally; it's the process getting there. If you only post the result and refuse to engage people in the process, you won't get any results.
This is actually pretty interesting stuff.
But since AKK has no problem trashing the rest of the board, I am afraid I am going to have to destry this thread.
Sorry, LMNO. It's a moral imperative.
True.
Needs longcat.
He just shits on everyone elses stuff.
Fuck him.
Quote from: hunter s.durden on April 11, 2007, 06:44:12 PM
True.
Needs longcat.
He just shits on everyone elses stuff.
Fuck him.
Fact. He has NO respect for anyone else.
Who has the longcat?
Dave and Idem I think.
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Maybe I can find it.
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
:jebus:
Pardon...
AKK is weak in not only current events, but also history and politics.
That being said: SS soldiers, were they right?
by their own standards sure, especially if they really believed in what they were doing. Their experiences led them on that path and not only that, but the whims of the great magnet decided it was to be so, which is greater than my particular authority.
That being said however, I would think that this was an unnacceptable loss from a strictly economic sense. Perhaps nationalism helped pick things up for the germans, but the loss of human rescources is shitty overall, especially since they were Jews, many highly educated and capable members of society. Those people could have at least contributed something over just a corpse, it seems wastefull.
If put in to Hitler's temporarilly put shoes I'd have attempted to find a better route, but if I was hitler... well, I'd be him and give the same orders to cleanse the land.
I'd like to think that humans have an inborn appreciation for their own kind and that I could chalk the genocide up to the environment and propoganda, but humans like to kill each other from what little I know of history.
Was their integrity sollid? Deffinently, and I respect that. Doesn't mean I like it or agree with it, but that I have an appreciation for the mindset.
In this manner I've been labelled as Hitler or worse by many a hippy in my day, but that's usually out of their lack of understanding of what respecting something is. It doesn't denote admiration, if anything, in this case it would indicate that they were extra dangerous and need to be treated with extreeme caution.
I hope that clears up someting, I have to run till later, so if you have anything else I'll have to get to it tonight.
(http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/8921/longcatol4.gif)
(http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/8921/longcatol4.gif)
That's a big fucking cat.
Quote from: Ambassador KAOS on April 11, 2007, 06:49:43 PM
Pardon...
AKK is weak in not only current events, but also history and politics.
That being said: SS soldiers, were they right?
by their own standards sure, especially if they really believed in what they were doing. Their experiences led them on that path and not only that, but the whims of the great magnet decided it was to be so, which is greater than my particular authority.
That being said however, I would think that this was an unnacceptable loss from a strictly economic sense. Perhaps nationalism helped pick things up for the germans, but the loss of human rescources is shitty overall, especially since they were Jews, many highly educated and capable members of society. Those people could have at least contributed something over just a corpse, it seems wastefull.
If put in to Hitler's temporarilly put shoes I'd have attempted to find a better route, but if I was hitler... well, I'd be him and give the same orders to cleanse the land.
I'd like to think that humans have an inborn appreciation for their own kind and that I could chalk the genocide up to the environment and propoganda, but humans like to kill each other from what little I know of history.
Was their integrity sollid? Deffinently, and I respect that. Doesn't mean I like it or agree with it, but that I have an appreciation for the mindset.
In this manner I've been labelled as Hitler or worse by many a hippy in my day, but that's usually out of their lack of understanding of what respecting something is. It doesn't denote admiration, if anything, in this case it would indicate that they were extra dangerous and need to be treated with extreeme caution.
I hope that clears up someting, I have to run till later, so if you have anything else I'll have to get to it tonight.
:ninja:
You get dumber and dumber.
The SS?
You don't know much of anything do you?
Quote from: LMNO on April 11, 2007, 06:53:46 PM
Quote from: Ambassador KAOS on April 11, 2007, 06:49:43 PM
Pardon...
AKK is weak in not only current events, but also history and politics.
That being said: SS soldiers, were they right?
by their own standards sure, especially if they really believed in what they were doing. Their experiences led them on that path and not only that, but the whims of the great magnet decided it was to be so, which is greater than my particular authority.
That being said however, I would think that this was an unnacceptable loss from a strictly economic sense. Perhaps nationalism helped pick things up for the germans, but the loss of human rescources is shitty overall, especially since they were Jews, many highly educated and capable members of society. Those people could have at least contributed something over just a corpse, it seems wastefull.
If put in to Hitler's temporarilly put shoes I'd have attempted to find a better route, but if I was hitler... well, I'd be him and give the same orders to cleanse the land.
I'd like to think that humans have an inborn appreciation for their own kind and that I could chalk the genocide up to the environment and propoganda, but humans like to kill each other from what little I know of history.
Was their integrity sollid? Deffinently, and I respect that. Doesn't mean I like it or agree with it, but that I have an appreciation for the mindset.
In this manner I've been labelled as Hitler or worse by many a hippy in my day, but that's usually out of their lack of understanding of what respecting something is. It doesn't denote admiration, if anything, in this case it would indicate that they were extra dangerous and need to be treated with extreeme caution.
I hope that clears up someting, I have to run till later, so if you have anything else I'll have to get to it tonight.
:ninja:
AKK doesn't get to have threads. I'm going to wreck them all, as he has wrecked so many threads here in the past.
Basically, I'm going to longcat everything he posts. Forever.
Quote from: hunter s.durden on April 11, 2007, 06:55:07 PM
You get dumber and dumber.
The SS?
You don't know much of anything do you?
He admires the hell out of them, it seems.
They were right "by their standards". Which makes up for all the dead Jews, etc.
(http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/8921/longcatol4.gif)
LESS TALK MORE LONGCAT!!!
WE'VE GOT A NAZI BOYS!!!
you know come to think of it
I did want to know what LMNO thought of his astrophysics idea that he did a few weeks ago
:lol:
the problem is it came about on a weekend and got buried in long cats
:lol:
Which idea was that again?
http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=12111.0
he locked the thread
:sad:
Not any longer.
Ah, that one.
Actually, astrophysics isn't really my bag. Sorry.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 11, 2007, 06:50:21 PM
(http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/8921/longcatol4.gif)
ALSO
(http://www.tawbaware.com/maxlyons/gigapixel_strip.jpg)
LOL FREAD RUINED
Quote from: Ambassador KAOS on April 11, 2007, 06:49:43 PMif I was hitler... well, I'd be him and give the same orders to cleanse the land.
LMNO setting up the bomb, ITT
(though perhaps not intentionally)
This thread gives me an awful vertigo feeling when I scroll horizontally.
Quote from: cyberus on April 12, 2007, 02:36:23 AM
This thread gives me an awful vertigo feeling when I scroll horizontally.
I don't see it since I can disable images in my browser with the right plugins.
Quote from: triple zero on April 12, 2007, 01:28:32 AM
Quote from: Ambassador KAOS on April 11, 2007, 06:49:43 PMif I was hitler... well, I'd be him and give the same orders to cleanse the land.
LMNO setting up the bomb, ITT
(though perhaps not intentionally)
I do appologize but I still be entirely comfortable that the entire online community has the ability to decipher what was actually being said, for those of you who need to jump in and take this out of context...as if iyou didn't know, (ahem, no one in particular) I was indicating that if one was raised and lived hitler's life they would make exactly the same choices and feel as justified as he did in doing so. Their current identity would cease, there would be NO understanding of the perspectives they have now. That is all on that.
Quote from: Ambassador KAOS on April 12, 2007, 04:35:57 AM
Quote from: triple zero on April 12, 2007, 01:28:32 AM
Quote from: Ambassador KAOS on April 11, 2007, 06:49:43 PMif I was hitler... well, I'd be him and give the same orders to cleanse the land.
LMNO setting up the bomb, ITT
(though perhaps not intentionally)
I do appologize but I still be entirely comfortable that the entire online community has the ability to decipher what was actually being said, for those of you who need to jump in and take this out of context...as if iyou didn't know, (ahem, no one in particular) I was indicating that if one was raised and lived hitler's life they would make exactly the same choices and feel as justified as he did in doing so. Their current identity would cease, there would be NO understanding of the perspectives they have now. That is all on that.
Is it better to be right or to be loved?
Quote from: Ambassador KAOS on April 12, 2007, 04:35:57 AM
I was indicating that if one was raised and lived hitler's life they would make exactly the same choices and feel as justified as he did in doing so.
That smacks of determinism! And its also impossible to test the theory.
Quote from: saint aini on April 12, 2007, 04:42:06 AM
Quote from: Ambassador KAOS on April 12, 2007, 04:35:57 AM
Quote from: triple zero on April 12, 2007, 01:28:32 AM
Quote from: Ambassador KAOS on April 11, 2007, 06:49:43 PMif I was hitler... well, I'd be him and give the same orders to cleanse the land.
LMNO setting up the bomb, ITT
(though perhaps not intentionally)
I do appologize but I still be entirely comfortable that the entire online community has the ability to decipher what was actually being said, for those of you who need to jump in and take this out of context...as if iyou didn't know, (ahem, no one in particular) I was indicating that if one was raised and lived hitler's life they would make exactly the same choices and feel as justified as he did in doing so. Their current identity would cease, there would be NO understanding of the perspectives they have now. That is all on that.
Is it better to be right or to be loved?
All in context, there are too many infinite factors, deal with each situation individually.
I'd say it's better to be niether but rather ture to yourself, whether that means you are right wrong, loved, unloved or whatever.
Quote from: Ambassador KAOS on April 12, 2007, 04:58:12 AM
Quote from: saint aini on April 12, 2007, 04:42:06 AM
Quote from: Ambassador KAOS on April 12, 2007, 04:35:57 AM
Quote from: triple zero on April 12, 2007, 01:28:32 AM
Quote from: Ambassador KAOS on April 11, 2007, 06:49:43 PMif I was hitler... well, I'd be him and give the same orders to cleanse the land.
LMNO setting up the bomb, ITT
(though perhaps not intentionally)
I do appologize but I still be entirely comfortable that the entire online community has the ability to decipher what was actually being said, for those of you who need to jump in and take this out of context...as if iyou didn't know, (ahem, no one in particular) I was indicating that if one was raised and lived hitler's life they would make exactly the same choices and feel as justified as he did in doing so. Their current identity would cease, there would be NO understanding of the perspectives they have now. That is all on that.
Is it better to be right or to be loved?
All in context, there are too many infinite factors, deal with each situation individually.
I'd say it's better to be niether but rather ture to yourself, whether that means you are right wrong, loved, unloved or whatever.
I'll take that as you prefer to be right.
Enjoy the abuse.
And by the way...
happy 26th birthday on the 16th.
thanks much, you guys are too sweet.
I already knew about you anyhow, I put 2 and 2 together with the fire breathing pic. =)
Posting about the fettish show (and that you're a haxor and that specifically my aol account was hacked) just kinda confirmed it.
Fancy meeting you here though.
I wasn't gonna tell if you didn't though.
In reference to the statement though, it still is a matter of context,
if you prefer to be in love, would that not be you being right in regards to following your personal choice?
The thing about arguments is, there is never a right or wrong with subjectivity and simply exposing a failing in an argument doesn't disqualify it's vallidity as every viewpoint fails to take in the total picure.
This is elementary to public speaking, point out how your enemy is wrong and show your idea, it now seems right to teh onlooker but in actuality is just as faulty as any other viewpoint.
Quote from: Ambassador KAOS on April 12, 2007, 05:12:24 AM
thanks much, you guys are too sweet.
I already knew about you anyhow, I put 2 and 2 together with the fire breathing pic. =)
Posting about the fetish show (and that you're a haxor and that specifically my aol account was hacked) just kinda confirmed it.
Fancy meeting you here though.
I wasn't gonna tell if you didn't though.
In reference to the statement though, it still is a matter of context,
if you prefer to be in love, would that not be you being right in regards to following your personal choice?
The thing about arguments is, there is never a right or wrong with subjectivity and simply exposing a failing in an argument doesn't disqualify it's vallidity as every viewpoint fails to take in the total picure.
This is elementary to public speaking, point out how your enemy is wrong and show your idea, it now seems right to teh onlooker but in actuality is just as faulty as any other viewpoint.
You use AOL and were never cracked until today? Wow, you're one of the lucky ones. Nope, I don't crack. Breaking into things is not exactly my cup of tea. Besides, your AOL screenname is fairly easy to get.
Anyways, I once preferred being right all the time. It was a very lonely and painful time. When you're right, you're right and nothing else. Then I decided, eh, when in doubt, fuck it; when not in doubt, get in doubt.
Yeah, so, I'm a freak. An amateur fetish/alternative model. A semi-professional fire performer. Yeah, I can also be the Human Blockhead with a 10p nail and a spoon. I love the sideshow and the performing arts.
The funny thing is, after reading the vast majority of your content, I cannot find any instance in which we would have met prior.
Ah, but the fallacy of fallacies is that an argument may indeed be based on a fallacy, yet produce a valid result.
nope, not cracked till now.
I'll allow for the possibility that you're not who I thought you were, but the coincidences do seem to make it hard to swallow...
I used to know a chic on AOL who was a bit of a haxor and a fetish model who also was a fire breather (alius rivet among others).
If you were her you'd remember me, I'm not so easy to forget.
hell... for not knowing me you even know my birthday and former name, how many people track of that shit on?
To clear up a rumor, I did indeed change my name and the AOL info is years out of date.
I do see value in your perspective of getting in doubt when not in doubt, but I know for me I was a worthless waste of rescources when I subscribed to that and I now use a more utilitarian aproach and a couple of quotes from enstein and tharp come to mind, but they've probably been read.
To make change for the sake of itself seems to be a poor allocation of rescources,
Sure you'll never be stagnant, but you aren't likely to get much done either if all your calories are spent changing systems regularly.
Accoutning for things like fatigue and degenerative stagnation of any particular approach in a behavioral system are part of the utilitarian view I usually use and subvert a system (using the pragmattic system I discussed earlier ITT) when it identifies itself as inferior.
I'm not trying to be right, nor saying anyone else should live this way, just that that is how I am operating for today and by all means,
if you have a lever I can use to pres my advantage in achieving my goals, please do train me in it's use (but don't expect me to drop everything and not critically analyze what I am about to ingest).
This same thing applies to the fallacy of fallicies line you threw in on the end.
I lOve YoU CaPtaIn KaOs
i wAnnA CuM on yOUr LeG
Quote from: Ambassador KAOS on April 12, 2007, 06:46:00 AM
nope, not cracked till now.
I'll allow for the possibility that you're not who I thought you were, but the coincidences do seem to make it hard to swallow...
I used to know a chic on AOL who was a bit of a haxor and a fetish model who also was a fire breather (alius rivet among others).
If you were her you'd remember me, I'm not so easy to forget.
hell... for not knowing me you even know my birthday and former name, how many people track of that shit on?
To clear up a rumor, I did indeed change my name and the AOL info is years out of date.
I do see value in your perspective of getting in doubt when not in doubt, but I know for me I was a worthless waste of rescources when I subscribed to that and I now use a more utilitarian aproach and a couple of quotes from enstein and tharp come to mind, but they've probably been read.
To make change for the sake of itself seems to be a poor allocation of rescources,
Sure you'll never be stagnant, but you aren't likely to get much done either if all your calories are spent changing systems regularly.
Accoutning for things like fatigue and degenerative stagnation of any particular approach in a behavioral system are part of the utilitarian view I usually use and subvert a system (using the pragmattic system I discussed earlier ITT) when it identifies itself as inferior.
I'm not trying to be right, nor saying anyone else should live this way, just that that is how I am operating for today and by all means,
if you have a lever I can use to pres my advantage in achieving my goals, please do train me in it's use (but don't expect me to drop everything and not critically analyze what I am about to ingest).
This same thing applies to the fallacy of fallicies line you threw in on the end.
I didnt read what you said
But I'm sure it was shit
Quote from: Ambassador KAOS on April 12, 2007, 06:46:00 AM
nope, not cracked till now.
I'll allow for the possibility that you're not who I thought you were, but the coincidences do seem to make it hard to swallow...
I used to know a chic on AOL who was a bit of a haxor and a fetish model who also was a fire breather (alius rivet among others).
If you were her you'd remember me, I'm not so easy to forget.
hell... for not knowing me you even know my birthday and former name, how many people track of that shit on?
To clear up a rumor, I did indeed change my name and the AOL info is years out of date.
I do see value in your perspective of getting in doubt when not in doubt, but I know for me I was a worthless waste of rescources when I subscribed to that and I now use a more utilitarian aproach and a couple of quotes from enstein and tharp come to mind, but they've probably been read.
To make change for the sake of itself seems to be a poor allocation of rescources,
Sure you'll never be stagnant, but you aren't likely to get much done either if all your calories are spent changing systems regularly.
Accoutning for things like fatigue and degenerative stagnation of any particular approach in a behavioral system are part of the utilitarian view I usually use and subvert a system (using the pragmattic system I discussed earlier ITT) when it identifies itself as inferior.
I'm not trying to be right, nor saying anyone else should live this way, just that that is how I am operating for today and by all means,
if you have a lever I can use to pres my advantage in achieving my goals, please do train me in it's use (but don't expect me to drop everything and not critically analyze what I am about to ingest).
This same thing applies to the fallacy of fallicies line you threw in on the end.
Know when to Be pressed by the lever. Know when to press the lever.
Nope, I've never been to your part of the world. Also, it's been ages since I've had AOL. You go away to college and get free WiFi and you never go back to dialup ever again.
As for knowing your name, birthdate, street address, etc., I have my ways that do not involve breaking into any computer system or searching a specialized database. I simply read your public content, written by none other than Dr. Klok himself. As a demonstration of my research skills, I am attaching an aerial photograph of one of your residences. Mind you, as a courtesy, I am not revealing the address. The image serves as sufficient proof that I found it without revealing the exact address. Mind you, this is all done by applying social engineering and knowing your mind quite well for you are a performer.
As for your aol screenname, I've seen in a number of places: most notably right under your avatar.
As for your name, post pics of the name change certificate. My research indicates that you still consider yourself to be "Luke".
This is not the middle ages when you could just disappear and start anew. I long for those days. Anonymity... it no longer exists.
My point is to accept that which is and let the others worry their minds with dreadful and deadly logic as I enjoy what little is left of the blossoms of youth and beauty are in this bleak world to capitivate those who are still alive despite the bloody battles waged from everlasting until everlasting by those who have for all practical purposes have died a most unnatural death.
Anyways, I have to get a social networking site up tonight before changing gears for a major festival this weekend. I'm not performing, but it's worth my time to check out.
[attachment deleted by admin]
I know how you found that stuff out, I was talking about the aol crack.
It occurred to me that I had older profiles up with out of date material that I had abandoned years ago and never bothered to take down.
wherever you are pulling the data that you think I still go by my former name is old and out of date. Seriously.
I don't go by my former name (and didn't for years prior to changing it).
Poting pics of the name change certificate...
it's not certificate, it's a court order from a judge, as well as a local newspaper article, and my driver's liscnence
all of which contain sensitive data such as my current address(among other things), so posting them isn't really an option.
Then of course there is my bank statements, debit card, ui bills, mailbox, but they too also contain sensitive data that I'd rather not share with anyone who has promissed to dedicate efforts in attempting to cause me misery.
I could photoshop them of course and wipe out the sensitive data but if I did what's to say I didn't mess with the whole thing and frge any part of the document...
So therein lies the dilemma. Besides it's kinda a bitch for me to get a digital cam as I have to sign it out at an hour that is rather inconvenient for me.
Why would you bother posting airial photos other than just to say, I can find some info if I need to?
I already got that figured when I got the notice from roger.
Not that I care if you do, but it seems like more effort than it's worth.
I believe you, or are you trying to verify to someone else?
If so I can verify, someone hacked my aol account and got some old information on me.
As far as your philosophical statement on the end there, it agrees with much of what I've said before too.
I think that most people will find that many of the ideas that I express are ones taht they also subscribe to on some level.
When and how I present these things and when and how they are recieved is where things aren't always lining up.
People have spinning gears in their heads that run different thoughts through their minds at different speeds from others. Just because they are in one frame of mind to disagree with somethigng today in one circumstance doesn't mean they won't agree with it tomarrow.
quoting radiohead "I'll go forwards, you go backwords and somewhere we will meet." (this reference is made in regards to the shape of the universe with the assumption that it all circles back on itself, much like the human mind.)
This means given enough interaction time two people will always find common ground on something because people are too fickel to be stuck in their ways forever.
It is human nature to adapt.
Good luck with your festival.
Quote from: Ambassador KAOS on April 12, 2007, 09:56:30 AM
it's not certificate, it's a court order from a judge, as well as a local newspaper article, and my driver's liscnence
all of which contain sensitive data such as my current address(among other things), so posting them isn't really an option.
It never happened.
Posting the area photo was worth the effort when I saw Cain's reaction (You're not bluffing, are you?").
I am reminded of the Solipist who would convince everyone to agree with him, even if they are on opposite sides only because it is all within his mind.
Agreement pacifies and is thus more dangerous than Discord for it allows hidden dangers to pas unnoticed.
Anyways, I'll probably catch all of you sometimes next week as I have a major event to attend this weekend and a major site to build.
p.s. for your birthday, if I lived in your neck of the woods, I'd buy you flowers because bullshit makes the flowers grow.
Quote from: saint aini on April 12, 2007, 10:06:37 AM
Posting the area photo was worth the effort when I saw Cain's reaction (You're not bluffing, are you?").
I am reminded of the Solipist who would convince everyone to agree with him, even if they are on opposite sides only because it is all within his mind.
Agreement pacifies and is thus more dangerous than Discord for it allows hidden dangers to pas unnoticed.
Anyways, I'll probably catch all of you sometimes next week as I have a major event to attend this weekend and a major site to build.
Catch ya later!
Quote from: saint aini on April 12, 2007, 10:06:37 AM
Posting the area photo was worth the effort when I saw Cain's reaction (You're not bluffing, are you?").
I am reminded of the Solipist who would convince everyone to agree with him, even if they are on opposite sides only because it is all within his mind.
Agreement pacifies and is thus more dangerous than Discord for it allows hidden dangers to pas unnoticed.
Anyways, I'll probably catch all of you sometimes next week as I have a major event to attend this weekend and a major site to build.
can you send me a pm to the address on that? it doesn't look familiar, but I have lived a lot of places. I'll confirm personally whatever address that might be. Maybe I just don't recognize it from airial view.
it's funny how coherent your posts can be when you feel a bit uneasy.
you should really learn some humility, i seriously honestly think it would be good for you.
(not "humility that must be earned", but "humility period.")
Quote from: triple zero on April 12, 2007, 11:45:58 AM
it's funny how coherent your posts can be when you feel a bit uneasy.
you should really learn some humility, i seriously honestly think it would be good for you.
(not "humility that must be earned", but "humility period.")
I think it has more to do with me being coherent when people are shouting obscenities and insults at me and instead are engaging in conversation with me.
I said it a hundred times before, treat me decently and I'll return the favor, the reverse is also true.
Quote from: Ambassador KAOS on April 12, 2007, 01:28:46 PM
Quote from: triple zero on April 12, 2007, 11:45:58 AM
it's funny how coherent your posts can be when you feel a bit uneasy.
you should really learn some humility, i seriously honestly think it would be good for you.
(not "humility that must be earned", but "humility period.")
I think it has more to do with me being coherent when people are shouting obscenities and insults at me and instead are engaging in conversation with me.
I said it a hundred times before, treat me decently and I'll return the favor, the reverse is also true.
tl;dr
I don't think anyone cares if you return the favor.
Quote from: Ambassador KAOS on April 12, 2007, 01:28:46 PMI think it has more to do with me being coherent when people are shouting obscenities and insults at me and instead are engaging in conversation with me.
nah, look at others, they get flamed too and they do just fine.
QuoteI said it a hundred times before, treat me decently and I'll return the favor, the reverse is also true.
that's what i meant to say. you are speaking of "humility earned", i'm saying you need some unconditional humility.
try it out some time.
Quote from: saint aini on April 12, 2007, 10:07:29 AM
p.s. for your birthday, if I lived in your neck of the woods, I'd buy you flowers because bullshit makes the flowers grow.
I made him this for his birthday
he could make a T shirt out of it or something
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a139/ThornIs/toilet2.jpg
boy im such a nice guy
Yo, T.I., What do you think of the possibility of the Penguins leaving Pitt?
They got their new building...
taxpayers will be putting up most of the cash
so they aren't moving anywhere
should get killed by ottawa this year
but young team
so they will probably be deadly next year
Quote from: hunter s.durden on April 12, 2007, 08:18:32 PM
Yo, T.I., What do you think of the possibility of the Penguins leaving Pitt?
Never gonna happen.
Looked like it was.
I hadn't heard that they got their building.
I'm proud of the people of Pittsburgh.
The team they have now is going to bring back the cup, no doubt.