Questions on the Nature of the Beast.
Inspired in part by an opensource radio broadcast with John Robb
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We know that there is something fucked up about the world today. For the most part, we are from developed countries (North American and European). Our nation states are a part of The Machine that we, for the most part, agree exists. Then you can factor in most of the large corporations, the media, "Common Sense", and traditional culture.
We know that many of the opposing ideologies are different sides of the same coin. Minted by The Machine to give cabbages an illusion of 'choice'. A mirror perhaps of the dominant economic philosophy in our homelands, the Free-Market economy.
To The Machine, we are numbers to be crunched, cogs to be ground.
Of course we are slightly different in that we try to see a bit more of the bigger picture, some of us more than others.
What else do we know? What redundancies are built into The Machine? What would happen if a paradigm shift occurred? Say a fuel shortage meant we were restricted to our immediate locality, imports and exports stopped except for The Machines absolute essentials. What effect would this have on our view of this awesome beast?
Would it become weaker? Stronger?
I am not an advocate of large scale action to bring about this scenario, but how would we deal with it? What redundancies do we have in place?
Right now, it is only logical to foul the oil, one grain of sand at a time, that keeps The Machine running. We must not draw attention specifically to ourselves because we are so few, and large scale destruction would have the undesirous effect of stiffening the barriers against us as individuals and as a pack.
What do we do if this happens by someone elses hand? I have been interested in these ideas for only a short time, I have no idea what it was like prior to September 11th, before the War on Terror. I can only assume, however, that it changed the tone of what we call Discordianism.
We are aware that the internet is not a high level target, due to its usefulness to too many of the forces active in the world today, but what would we do if all of us lost access to it without warning for an undetermined amount of time?
For some, I believe, this would make little difference. An inconvenience.
Ultimately there are some of you who have ideas about this already, who can see potential disasters coming. You know what you are going to do.
For the rest of us, what do we really know about The Machine? What do we really know about ourselves? and what are we going to do about it?
That, my friend, is why you make sure you have a stake in all of this OUTSIDE this board. That you do your "ops" in real-time, real-life places and at real-people events. Because otherwise, yeah, this is all just a simulation.
Yeah I know, I guess it's my newness to it all. And the fact that I feel so fuckin isolated out here in the sticks.
that interview cain posted the link for made me think, so I had to write something down.
Quote from: Jenne on May 01, 2007, 03:29:24 AM
That, my friend, is why you make sure you have a stake in all of this OUTSIDE this board. That you do your "ops" in real-time, real-life places and at real-people events. Because otherwise, yeah, this is all just a simulation.
Yep.
Even I do my part.
Board serves as awesome inspiration though.
Quote from: Jenne on May 01, 2007, 03:29:24 AM
That, my friend, is why you make sure you have a stake in all of this OUTSIDE this board. That you do your "ops" in real-time, real-life places and at real-people events. Because otherwise, yeah, this is all just a simulation.
Jenne hit it right on the head and although you may be isolated in a small town or whatever there's still a bunch of things you can do that spread the word and are really fun. If your in highschool, tell the kids about discordianism, or better yet demonstrate it through a simple, but funny mind fuck.
You don't have to do anything to change the world. First yourself, and then another individual.
Quote from: Dr. Cow Ass on May 01, 2007, 04:20:54 AM
Quote from: Jenne on May 01, 2007, 03:29:24 AM
That, my friend, is why you make sure you have a stake in all of this OUTSIDE this board. That you do your "ops" in real-time, real-life places and at real-people events. Because otherwise, yeah, this is all just a simulation.
Jenne hit it right on the head and although you may be isolated in a small town or whatever there's still a bunch of things you can do that spread the word and are really fun. If your in highschool, tell the kids about discordianism, or better yet demonstrate it through a simple, but funny mind fuck.
You don't have to do anything to change the world. First yourself, and then another individual.
That wasn't the entire point of the post though. Yes I'm out in the sticks, but i'm also very new to this type of thinking. Anything I've tried as an individual IRL has been the fail so far, but I continue plugging away.
I was also making the point that it's all well and good to think of the Machine in the terms expressed in the OP, but what else is it? Strengths, weaknesses what have you.
Again Idems point is something I was trying to express, though with poor writing ability.
Ach, many things lost in translation. I need to sort out my writing....
Quote from: Payne on May 01, 2007, 04:28:20 AM
Ach, many things lost in translation. I need to sort out my writing....
No you don't. Cowass ALWAYS misses the point of any rant he reads. Every single time.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 01, 2007, 04:29:36 AM
Quote from: Payne on May 01, 2007, 04:28:20 AM
Ach, many things lost in translation. I need to sort out my writing....
No you don't. Cowass ALWAYS misses the point of any rant he reads. Every single time.
I had the "argue with him" circuit fail mid post, but I couldn't let it go unresponded to.
Quote from: Payne on May 01, 2007, 04:31:18 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 01, 2007, 04:29:36 AM
Quote from: Payne on May 01, 2007, 04:28:20 AM
Ach, many things lost in translation. I need to sort out my writing....
No you don't. Cowass ALWAYS misses the point of any rant he reads. Every single time.
I had the "argue with him" circuit fail mid post, but I couldn't let it go unresponded to.
The thing to remember with Cowass is that he's all ego, and no hate. Well, a
weak hate. A sub-par hate.
That's why you'll argue "A", and he'll rebut "B", and then get all pissy when people laugh at him. He still hasn't forgiven me for stringing him along for a week over the Sonora thing.
:lulz:
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 01, 2007, 04:34:14 AM
Quote from: Payne on May 01, 2007, 04:31:18 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 01, 2007, 04:29:36 AM
Quote from: Payne on May 01, 2007, 04:28:20 AM
Ach, many things lost in translation. I need to sort out my writing....
No you don't. Cowass ALWAYS misses the point of any rant he reads. Every single time.
I had the "argue with him" circuit fail mid post, but I couldn't let it go unresponded to.
The thing to remember with Cowass is that he's all ego, and no hate. Well, a weak hate. A sub-par hate.
That's why you'll argue "A", and he'll rebut "B", and then get all pissy when people laugh at him. He still hasn't forgiven me for stringing him along for a week over the Sonora thing.
:lulz:
Your hate is incomparable rev. And you have INFLUENCE too.
OH NOES!!!!1!!!!1 The Anti-christ is here!!!!!!
ive said it before - that one of the things that it seems most of the people here have in common is to be able to keep their shit together when things get foul
at least thats the impression i get
i dont think anybody has the illusion that they will be able to stave off calamity perpetually
but
knowing how to handle shit when situations get thick is a real accomplishment
you bring up a valid point tho -
even tho this site and community can be used as a source of inspiration/support/feedback
it is wise to understand the fleetingness (?) of all things
besides - if shit hits the fan it has already been decided that we are meeting in Cuba
Quote from: Payne on May 01, 2007, 01:45:59 AM
Right now, it is only logical to foul the oil, one grain of sand at a time, that keeps The Machine running. We must not draw attention specifically to ourselves because we are so few, and large scale destruction would have the undesirous effect of stiffening the barriers against us as individuals and as a pack.
You just wrote in one paragraph, something that took me almost a year to articulate, back in '03.
:?
Awesome. *needs a good tequila-and-cigar party*
I'm probably not cleared for that information yet...
But Cuba sounds good. Guantanamo Bay?
Fuck Gitmo.
Yes, I too would prefer tequila and cigars.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 01, 2007, 04:41:23 AM
Quote from: Payne on May 01, 2007, 01:45:59 AM
Right now, it is only logical to foul the oil, one grain of sand at a time, that keeps The Machine running. We must not draw attention specifically to ourselves because we are so few, and large scale destruction would have the undesirous effect of stiffening the barriers against us as individuals and as a pack.
You just wrote in one paragraph, something that took me almost a year to articulate, back in '03.
:?
I guess that's the advantage of reading back and actually thinking about what has been said before. It's repost, but refined a little I hope.
Quote from: Payne on May 01, 2007, 04:58:36 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 01, 2007, 04:41:23 AM
Quote from: Payne on May 01, 2007, 01:45:59 AM
Right now, it is only logical to foul the oil, one grain of sand at a time, that keeps The Machine running. We must not draw attention specifically to ourselves because we are so few, and large scale destruction would have the undesirous effect of stiffening the barriers against us as individuals and as a pack.
You just wrote in one paragraph, something that took me almost a year to articulate, back in '03.
:?
I guess that's the advantage of reading back and actually thinking about what has been said before. It's repost, but refined a little I hope.
Very much refined.
Well done.
I can hit a gnat in the ass at 600 yards with a decent rifle. I grew up in the country and know where to find food and shelter. I am not afraid to destroy any fuck that threatens me or mine.
Fuck. I was born Discordian.
Quote from: Hawk on May 01, 2007, 05:08:46 AM
I can hit a gnat in the ass at 600 yards with a decent rifle. I grew up in the country and know where to find food and shelter. I am not afraid to destroy any fuck that threatens me or mine.
Fuck. I was born Discordian.
PREACH IT, BROTHER HAWK!
Quote from: Hawk on May 01, 2007, 05:08:46 AM
I can hit a gnat in the ass at 600 yards with a decent rifle. I grew up in the country and know where to find food and shelter. I am not afraid to destroy any fuck that threatens me or mine.
Fuck. I was born Discordian.
My dads tryin to teach me archery and stuff. Guns ain't so big in the U.K., though I did some shooting when I stayed in Canuckistan for a while.
Quote from: Payne on May 01, 2007, 05:11:54 AM
Guns ain't so big in the U.K.
Your country is retarded.
Don't feel bad, though. Mine is, too...just for different reasons.
NEVAR bring a bow and arrow to a gun fight.
Quote from: Jenne on May 01, 2007, 04:42:48 AM
Fuck Gitmo.
Been there, done that.
Best day of my life was snubbing some State Dept shill's "information" in a semi-public session on the threat of global terrorism.
Quote from: Cain on May 01, 2007, 08:05:21 AM
Quote from: Jenne on May 01, 2007, 04:42:48 AM
Fuck Gitmo.
Been there, done that.
Best day of my life was snubbing some State Dept shill's "information" in a semi-public session on the threat of global terrorism.
:mittens: We need more of that, I swear to fucking gawd. The current presidential debates here are giving me head explodey, and it doesn't help that Tenant's tell-all is more like a strike and hide-all-related-to-Tenant's-assregions.
Quote from: Payne on May 01, 2007, 04:28:20 AM
Quote from: Dr. Cow Ass on May 01, 2007, 04:20:54 AM
Quote from: Jenne on May 01, 2007, 03:29:24 AM
That, my friend, is why you make sure you have a stake in all of this OUTSIDE this board. That you do your "ops" in real-time, real-life places and at real-people events. Because otherwise, yeah, this is all just a simulation.
Jenne hit it right on the head and although you may be isolated in a small town or whatever there's still a bunch of things you can do that spread the word and are really fun. If your in highschool, tell the kids about discordianism, or better yet demonstrate it through a simple, but funny mind fuck.
You don't have to do anything to change the world. First yourself, and then another individual.
That wasn't the entire point of the post though. Yes I'm out in the sticks, but i'm also very new to this type of thinking. Anything I've tried as an individual IRL has been the fail so far, but I continue plugging away.
I was also making the point that it's all well and good to think of the Machine in the terms expressed in the OP, but what else is it? Strengths, weaknesses what have you.
Again Idems point is something I was trying to express, though with poor writing ability.
Ach, many things lost in translation. I need to sort out my writing....
I live in a small town too - although between two larger ones.
I don't really try to spread the word of Discordianism all that much, actually... maybe get a few flyers up here and there, but generally I just try to fuck shit up. Nothing illegal. Not as often as I do when I live in Florida (Over the summer, I live in a large city there), because word gets around here quickly.
Quote from: Idem on May 01, 2007, 04:13:50 PM
Quote from: Payne on May 01, 2007, 04:28:20 AM
Quote from: Dr. Cow Ass on May 01, 2007, 04:20:54 AM
Quote from: Jenne on May 01, 2007, 03:29:24 AM
That, my friend, is why you make sure you have a stake in all of this OUTSIDE this board. That you do your "ops" in real-time, real-life places and at real-people events. Because otherwise, yeah, this is all just a simulation.
Jenne hit it right on the head and although you may be isolated in a small town or whatever there's still a bunch of things you can do that spread the word and are really fun. If your in highschool, tell the kids about discordianism, or better yet demonstrate it through a simple, but funny mind fuck.
You don't have to do anything to change the world. First yourself, and then another individual.
That wasn't the entire point of the post though. Yes I'm out in the sticks, but i'm also very new to this type of thinking. Anything I've tried as an individual IRL has been the fail so far, but I continue plugging away.
I was also making the point that it's all well and good to think of the Machine in the terms expressed in the OP, but what else is it? Strengths, weaknesses what have you.
Again Idems point is something I was trying to express, though with poor writing ability.
Ach, many things lost in translation. I need to sort out my writing....
I live in a small town too - although between two larger ones.
I don't really try to spread the word of Discordianism all that much, actually... maybe get a few flyers up here and there, but generally I just try to fuck shit up. Nothing illegal. Not as often as I do when I live in Florida (Over the summer, I live in a large city there), because word gets around here quickly.
Does this suggest to you that a small system is harder to affect than a large one with our methodology? I think there's something in that, but perhaps it's a limitation of ourselves rather than a function of the machine that makes it easier to effect small results on a large system.
let me think about it a bit, i just came back from the pub and I am a little tipsy.
Quote from: Payne on May 01, 2007, 06:00:46 PM
Quote from: Idem on May 01, 2007, 04:13:50 PM
Quote from: Payne on May 01, 2007, 04:28:20 AM
Quote from: Dr. Cow Ass on May 01, 2007, 04:20:54 AM
Quote from: Jenne on May 01, 2007, 03:29:24 AM
That, my friend, is why you make sure you have a stake in all of this OUTSIDE this board. That you do your "ops" in real-time, real-life places and at real-people events. Because otherwise, yeah, this is all just a simulation.
Jenne hit it right on the head and although you may be isolated in a small town or whatever there's still a bunch of things you can do that spread the word and are really fun. If your in highschool, tell the kids about discordianism, or better yet demonstrate it through a simple, but funny mind fuck.
You don't have to do anything to change the world. First yourself, and then another individual.
That wasn't the entire point of the post though. Yes I'm out in the sticks, but i'm also very new to this type of thinking. Anything I've tried as an individual IRL has been the fail so far, but I continue plugging away.
I was also making the point that it's all well and good to think of the Machine in the terms expressed in the OP, but what else is it? Strengths, weaknesses what have you.
Again Idems point is something I was trying to express, though with poor writing ability.
Ach, many things lost in translation. I need to sort out my writing....
I live in a small town too - although between two larger ones.
I don't really try to spread the word of Discordianism all that much, actually... maybe get a few flyers up here and there, but generally I just try to fuck shit up. Nothing illegal. Not as often as I do when I live in Florida (Over the summer, I live in a large city there), because word gets around here quickly.
Does this suggest to you that a small system is harder to affect than a large one with our methodology? I think there's something in that, but perhaps it's a limitation of ourselves rather than a function of the machine that makes it easier to effect small results on a large system.
let me think about it a bit, i just came back from the pub and I am a little tipsy.
It takes less to affect a small system, is what I'm implying. Word gets around easier. However, its easier to be revealed as well, for the same reasons.
Actually, it takes less to affect a large system, when you take into account payoff and costs.
However, you all seem to be using a very narrow description of "effect".
Quote from: Cain on May 01, 2007, 06:23:31 PM
Actually, it takes less to affect a large system, when you take into account payoff and costs.
However, you all seem to be using a very narrow description of "effect".
...Perhaps
I'm using it in the sense that in a small system, the WHOLE system is easier to affect.
In a large system, while the entire system isnt as easily affected, more people could possibly be affected.
Quote from: Idem on May 01, 2007, 06:29:23 PM
Quote from: Cain on May 01, 2007, 06:23:31 PM
Actually, it takes less to affect a large system, when you take into account payoff and costs.
However, you all seem to be using a very narrow description of "effect".
...Perhaps
I'm using it in the sense that in a small system, the WHOLE system is easier to affect.
In a large system, while the entire system isnt as easily affected, more people could possibly be affected.
Still not quite Cain means I think. It's the problem I'm grappling with myself at the moment though, so I can't really think of the answer to that riddle either.
The whole system is built of subsystems. Overlap of support for these systems create high load nodes which are vital for the overall support of a system. By shutting down enough nodes, you create a system overload where the sheer amount of....everything, knocks the entire system on its arse. And because of the highly centralized nature of most of modern society, bar the internet, this becomes a very simple job. All you have to do is identify the correct nodes.
This harks back to my mechanical alchemy rant - careful what you wish for.
It's easy to get on the wrong side of the machine, or to see bits that are, quite evidently, pants. But I implore you not to think this means it needs destroyed. Think power vacuum, think savagery, look at the quality of life in countries where you can't phone for a domino's because not only are there no dominos there's no phone network either.
Oh yeah - massive improvement. Internets? DVD rental store? Library? Fuck that shit - you'll be too busy dodging bullets and trying to find a scrap of food. Destroying the machine (if you could actually find a way to pull it off) is a category A++ disaster, waiting to happen. Turn on CNN and check out some famines or floods or hurricanes when you have the chance. Take a good, long fucking look because if you kill the machine you're gonna need images like this to make it through the long nights ahead. You'll call these images paradise.
The machine is what keeps everything together. Not just the bad shit but the good stuff too. Okay it's a friggin ramshackle, cobbled together affair and you can criticise it till the cows come home, hell I'll even join you but it doesn't need broken even more. It needs fixed. Otherwise you'll find yourself flying planes into buildings like those stupid turbaniac fucks who thought they could solve a problem by breaking something.
Sure. Which is why you have to have a good idea of what systems you wish to deal with. However, since few people here are intending to blow up an oil tanker on a major trade route (for example) I am not too worried.
It's the fuckers at the top I really want to get. The ones who are hoarding all the stuff.
Problem is that history quite eloquently illustrates what happens when you kill them - they come back with different faces.
What I want is for every man woman and child on this mudball to become a philanthropist, overnight.
I can't see any way to pull this off so I settle for my lot in life - laughing at the fuck up instead.
If the human race really is a 'race' it's like some kinda fucked up, three legged, egg and spoon blindfolded sack race over an obstacle course.
I got plenty to keep me chuckling.
Suggestions on a postcard....
Quote from: Cain on May 01, 2007, 06:36:18 PM
The whole system is built of subsystems. Overlap of support for these systems create high load nodes which are vital for the overall support of a system. By shutting down enough nodes, you create a system overload where the sheer amount of....everything, knocks the entire system on its arse. And because of the highly centralized nature of most of modern society, bar the internet, this becomes a very simple job. All you have to do is identify the correct nodes.
I don't think I'm quite as... professional as you at this.
Quote from: Idem on May 01, 2007, 11:34:16 PM
Quote from: Cain on May 01, 2007, 06:36:18 PM
The whole system is built of subsystems. Overlap of support for these systems create high load nodes which are vital for the overall support of a system. By shutting down enough nodes, you create a system overload where the sheer amount of....everything, knocks the entire system on its arse. And because of the highly centralized nature of most of modern society, bar the internet, this becomes a very simple job. All you have to do is identify the correct nodes.
I don't think I'm quite as... professional as you at this.
Which is my point... I'm learning here, i'm picking up on recomended reading, but I still don't have enough awareness of what it is I face.
Hence the title of this thread.
I know what Cain is saying, but I think I would be out of my depth without the debate on the more intelectual subjects here...
I just fuck shit up, for now.
BUMP:
http://smallwarsjournal.com/index.php
http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/
http://www.fifthgeneration.phaticcommunion.com/
http://www.tdaxp.com/
Some different and divergent views on the topic.
Sweet!
Thanks man, I'll no doubt read most of it late at night, in between chapters in that alien abduction book I'm (still) reading.
Where is Fancy bred?
In the heart or in the head,
or in Rourke's bakery instead?
And is that fancy just a dream,
is it simply life or The Machine?
Can we fight against the color Green?
Do we really want to?
In vision I saw Eris (tis true!)
In Salvia's deep smoke she grew
so I took another toke or two.
And then she spoke.
I wrote the words that Eris said
I wrote as I sat in my bed,
I wrote what she spoke in my head.
And out of it all, the one refrain,
The one I can't shake from my Brain,
The one to make the Machine Insane...
She said "Just Poison the Money Supply."
I wish I knew what the hell she meant.
(Based on a trip I took on Salvia)
Ratatosk, Squirrel of Discord
Muncher of The ChaoAcorn
Chatterer of the Words of Eris
POEE of The Great Googlie Mooglie Cabal