In all of creation the need for religion is found only in the Human race. Did you ever think to question why? Did not all living things come from the same "source"? Can we attribute our higher brain functions to this? If indeed we do all come from the same source wouldn't we all want to return to that source? Human or beast?
No, the need for a higher being is a human trait. Ours alone. Sure, our pets can look at us in a way that makes us wonder if we aren't gods to them, but hurt that loving pet and likely as not you'll get bit. In the wild some animals will see you as lunch, not a god.
Is it a matter of perspective? Does our "higher" brain function give us that much more insight? Or is it much simpler than that?
Do we have a driving need for something to control the chaos that exists? Are we afraid that we are alone and the choices we make are ours? Why do we seem to be so willing to lay the woes of the world somewhere else?
So many questions. Can the answers be so simple as we are afraid? I often wonder as I see an innocent child suffering some horrible torment, could a just Supreme Being allow this. We all have. So to justify this in our minds we must believe there is some Greater Plan,Ñ¢ that we as mere humans don't understand. That child is suffering to teach us all a lesson. The Supreme Being,Ñ¢ knows what he/she is doing, who are we to question it?
Let's take a look at some of the things that have and are being worshiped as Supreme Beings. Cows. Snakes. Rats. Statues. Myths. Legends. Sunrises. Sunsets. Shooting stars. Meteor showers. Rocks. Springs. A person born of a Virgin. Lightening. Thunder. Kings. Pharohs. Once I added one cup of algaecide that would turn two acre feet of water blue. I saw a grown man fall to his knees and start praying as the water turned blue, and every day for the next year he went to the same spot every day and knelt and prayed. It was a reflecting pond at a commercial building.
We are no more advanced than our prehistoric predecessors, just more knowledgeable. And yet we still seek some reason or excuse for our existence. And we still do it for the same reason. Because we feel inadequate. That's right, we feel an over powering need to have a fall back position. As we grow older the need becomes stronger. We face our own mortality. We feel we should have stood for something, should have meant something. Why didn't we accomplish more?
What if this is all there is?
This human feels we are nothing but spiritual beings having a human experience. Of our own choosing. That's right, we decided on our own to be here, to do this. I don't know what comes next. No one does. I feel that the experiences we have gone through in this life will have prepared us for the next step, whatever it is.
But this is just one humans opinion.
The above is a rewrite of "I Hate Your Religion".
Honest feedback is asked for.
Quote from: Hawk on May 01, 2007, 07:04:26 AM
In all of creation the need for religion is found only in the Human race. Did you ever think to question why?
We're the only monkeys with Original Slack,Ñ¢. The cleverest of us found a way to get the gullible ones to support them.
Darwin always wins.
isnt a 'source' and a 'higher being' the same thing?
To me the distinction is a source is inanimate, while a higher being follows a thought process.
Source = shit happens.
Higher being = I made it happen.
Quote from: Hawk on May 01, 2007, 07:04:26 AM
We are no more advanced than our prehistoric predecessors, just more knowledgeable. And yet we still seek some reason or excuse for our existence. And we still do it for the same reason. Because we feel inadequate. That's right, we feel an over powering need to have a fall back position. As we grow older the need becomes stronger. We face our own mortality. We feel we should have stood for something, should have meant something. Why didn't we accomplish more?
I think the implication here is that faith and religion are primitive trappings. Some antiquated thing that we should rid ourselves of.
I would disagree with the premise that religion only serves to justify and explain our weakness. I think there are lots of reasons that people need religion - preparation for death is just one of them.
Religion explains not only death, but how the whole universe works and how it should be classified.
More importantly (I think), it provides a structure for one's life. It gives suggestions as to how one should live and rewards good behavior.
In the absence of religion, something else would fill that gap. Philosophy or something. Personally I prefer my life to be structured according to the will of a sexy Greek deity than to follow rational ethical guidelines laid down by some dead white guy.
In answer to the question,
QuoteWhat if this is all there is?
So what? So I learn in the end that I was wrong my whole life. If this is all there is, then it doesn't matter that I spent my life believing something I wanted to believe.
One of the reasons I like Discordia better than other shticks is that it acknowledges that it's probably wrong but that doesn't in any way compromise its usefulness.
I guess I do see religion as primitive. Things that were once worshiped are now explained. What will the next decade bring? More understanding I hope.
Even without religion we know the difference between right and wrong. Religion just tries to organize and use it for control. Living right is not dependent on religion. It is dependent on ones self, on individual morals. Morality would not die in the absence of religion.
And if this is all there is, then the entire point is moot anyway. When one looks in the mirror, that is the first person they need to be pleased with. To me that is reward enough. If I can accept me with all my faults and try to improve, then to me I have justified my existence.
All of this is subjective according to each individuals opinion, as it should be. I appreciate your input.
Quote from: Hawk on May 01, 2007, 03:46:51 PM
I guess I do see religion as primitive. Things that were once worshiped are now explained. What will the next decade bring? More understanding I hope.
Even without religion we know the difference between right and wrong. Religion just tries to organize and use it for control. Living right is not dependent on religion. It is dependent on ones self, on individual morals. Morality would not die in the absence of religion.
Quote
Right. That's basically what Kant was trying to say but didn't have the balls to just come right out and say it. Of course, he also knew that the Church would ruin his shit if he took away one of their favorite toys.
And if this is all there is, then the entire point is moot anyway. When one looks in the mirror, that is the first person they need to be pleased with. To me that is reward enough. If I can accept me with all my faults and try to improve, then to me I have justified my existence.
All of this is subjective according to each individuals opinion, as it should be. I appreciate your input.
The point I would disagree with is the part where you think this existence somehow prepares you for the "next". I'll skip all the elemental questions about what this "next" is, where it is, what it is, or how you think you'll get there. Instead I'll leave you with a much simpler question. I'll use a watch as a functional model of a human being (work with me here). When the watch stops.... where does the tick go?
"tick" is a description of the action. It's a verb disguised as a noun.
There is no tick anywhere.
I have been pondering this topic lately.
The fear of death is the creator of religion. Every living thing has the instinct to survive, and we needed a way to cheat death. A way to comfort the survivors. So that they could fear death less and hell more. Something to thoroughly motivate them to help out the society. So that they would happily die for the greater good/god.
So is there a ''need for religion''? I say why not. Works about as good as anything to control the masses. Besides, most people are better off not thinking about it. In just "having faith" they recieve bliss, even if deep down they know it is deluded. Same thing with politics...Most people could give a flying fuck that Alberto fired a few attorneys or that Bush is a total fuck up. They don't even want to hear about it because they don't see any change in there lives from it. The mall is still there, American Idol is still on ALL the damn time, and Grey's Anatomy teaches us that we should just worry about who's fucking who rather than what rights or being trampled on today or what blew the fuck up yesterday. War is depressing, like "God is dead, and you are just gonna be maggot food," is depressing.
Besides maybe there is more, maybe not. Deepak makes a good arguement of why there must be an afterlife. Of course, he WANTS to go to hell. This is of course because he has a different definition or perception of hell. But then, what exactly is his perception of an afterlife? I believe in a higher being but I also believe that my definition or perception of this God is different from many people. My God has to exist by definition.
I'm gonna stop now because I am losing any point I might have been trying to make....
The tick is much like Deepak's arguement. He says when the walls of this room are torn down what happens to the space in the room?
These Deepak quotes are seeming more and more like utter bullshit.
The word "space" in this instance is a placeholder for the absence of something, an artificial term used to deliniate the inside of a container.
Yes, he is full of shit. But he kinda lets you know he is full of shit...which is admirable. It was funny when he tried to convince Bill Maher there was an afterlife.
Quote from: Random Probability on May 01, 2007, 04:38:41 PM
Quote from: Hawk on May 01, 2007, 03:46:51 PM
I guess I do see religion as primitive. Things that were once worshiped are now explained. What will the next decade bring? More understanding I hope.
Even without religion we know the difference between right and wrong. Religion just tries to organize and use it for control. Living right is not dependent on religion. It is dependent on ones self, on individual morals. Morality would not die in the absence of religion.
Quote
Right. That's basically what Kant was trying to say but didn't have the balls to just come right out and say it. Of course, he also knew that the Church would ruin his shit if he took away one of their favorite toys.
And if this is all there is, then the entire point is moot anyway. When one looks in the mirror, that is the first person they need to be pleased with. To me that is reward enough. If I can accept me with all my faults and try to improve, then to me I have justified my existence.
All of this is subjective according to each individuals opinion, as it should be. I appreciate your input.
The point I would disagree with is the part where you think this existence somehow prepares you for the "next". I'll skip all the elemental questions about what this "next" is, where it is, what it is, or how you think you'll get there. Instead I'll leave you with a much simpler question. I'll use a watch as a functional model of a human being (work with me here). When the watch stops.... where does the tick go?
I didn't mean to imply there is an afterlife. I just don't know. AS for the tick, what if it's just a function of this life and not needed in whatever other place, if any, there is. That's just physics.
Often overlooked angle -
There is existence, infinity, everything.
You are a part of it
So maybe some day you cease to exist
This means nothing for you exist now and now is all you ever get to see.
Your components might cease to function, cells die and are transformed into food chain or dust.
Your mind/spirit/soul or whatever you call the program running on your brain ceases to run.
It still exists
Now
Which is all you ever get to see.
What happens after is an imponderable
You can't imagine what it'd be like if there was no you, simply because there'd be no you to imagine it
Why bother?
Freaks some people out but is it really that big of a deal?
You exist now, tomorrow you might not
Why worry about it?
You aint gonna be around to see it anyway.
If I'm wrong and I die tomorrow and some guy with a clipboard asks me my name, outside a pearly gate
That'd be cool
If it doesn't happen I won't be around to notice.
Beginnings and ends are all good and well but the middle is the only bit that's actually there.
I like to entertain imaginary scenarios from time to time, as much as the next guy.
Unlike the next guy I aint deranged enough to let these flights of fancy influence any decisions I make in the here and now.
I will not pass up a nice dirty fuck, right now, on the offchance that god might be cross with me when I die.
Behaving in this fashion is irrational, reckless and (potentially) very dangerous to those around you.
Religion is primitive. It's a fanciful coping mechanism which rational thought eliminates the need for.
It's holding this planet back as long as it's still taught to children.
Indoctrination into any 'faith' is an attempt to create a retard and, on the whole, it's quite a successful attempt.
There are a lot of faithfools out there.
Every one a retard
Every one a throwback to a more primitive mental paradigm
Every one needs repaired or scrapped.
Don't feel to bad about it - morality is just some more bullshit that you've been programmed with
Let's ditch morality and fire up the ovens :evil:
My current take on the end
(or at least my end)
is that I'm currently on my deathbed. My brain is lighting up before burning out. My memories are being relived in what seems (presently) to be chronological order.
and when I get to the end - then what?
*shrug* Serving drinks to Gods, I think.
When you get to the end you know how it finished.
Did you enjoy the show?
It's not the destination, it's the journey.
Shamelessly stolen from Harley Davidson.
Quote from: Hawk on May 01, 2007, 08:04:53 PM
It's not the destination, it's the bugs stuck in your teeth.
Shamelessly stolen from Harley Davidson.
Fixxxored.
Quote from: LMNO on May 01, 2007, 08:11:08 PM
Quote from: Hawk on May 01, 2007, 08:04:53 PM
It's not the destination, it's the burn in your thighs.
Shamelessly stolen from Harley Davidson.
Fixxxored.
AGAIN
Quote from: LMNO on May 01, 2007, 04:40:11 PM
"tick" is a description of the action. It's a verb disguised as a noun.
There is no tick anywhere.
Correct! And so is
life.
Quote from: Hawk on May 01, 2007, 08:04:53 PM
It's not the destination, it's the huge puddle of oil under your bike.
Shamelessly stolen from Harley Davidson.
Fixed for real.
Quote from: Jenne on May 01, 2007, 09:30:11 PM
Quote from: LMNO on May 01, 2007, 08:11:08 PM
Quote from: Hawk on May 01, 2007, 08:04:53 PM
It's not the destination, it's the burn in your thighs.
Shamelessly stolen from Harley Davidson.
Fixxxored.
AGAIN
Your thighs are burning? I thought your husband was sick!
:box:
real convo from a bar i overhead once:
<A> HAR! You're woman would leave you for me in a heartbeat!
<B> Why would you say that?
<A> Cause yer cock's like a honda, but MINE's like a Harley!
<pause>
<B> You mean it leaks in the driveway?
Quote from: Random Probability on May 01, 2007, 10:36:50 PM
Quote from: LMNO on May 01, 2007, 04:40:11 PM
"tick" is a description of the action. It's a verb disguised as a noun.
There is no tick anywhere.
Correct! And so is life.
You realize that makes no sense, right?
There is no absolute value (except hypothetically speaking, zero) universal truth or even truths (even that there isn't one). Arguing metaphysical symantics is mental masterbation and you won't legitamately know till you get there (and then...), just saying...
Quote from: Ambassador KAOS on May 03, 2007, 05:15:28 AM
There is no absolute value (except hypothetically speaking, zero) universal truth or even truths (even that there isn't one). Arguing metaphysical symantics is mental masterbation and you won't legitamately know till you get there (and then...), just saying...
Well I guess its a good thing no one care about your opinion
Quote from: Ambassador KAOS on May 03, 2007, 05:15:28 AM
There is no absolute value (except hypothetically speaking, zero) universal truth or even truths (even that there isn't one). Arguing metaphysical symantics is mental masterbation and you won't legitamately know till you get there (and then...), just saying...
This is correct. There are no universal truths.
Please to prove this by stepping off a 10 story building, AKK.
You'll be fine. Everything, including gravity, is subjective. You fucking moron.
Quote from: Thurnez Isa on May 03, 2007, 05:18:30 AM
Quote from: Ambassador KAOS on May 03, 2007, 05:15:28 AM
There is no absolute value (except hypothetically speaking, zero) universal truth or even truths (even that there isn't one). Arguing metaphysical symantics is mental masterbation and you won't legitamately know till you get there (and then...), just saying...
Well I guess its a good thing no one care about your opinion then
I laffed. What did you expect from such an outlandish guy? Philosophy above the 8th grade level?
:lulz:
Quote from: Ambassador KAOS on May 03, 2007, 05:15:28 AM
There is no absolute value (except hypothetically speaking, zero) universal truth or even truths (even that there isn't one). Arguing metaphysical symantics is mental masterbation and you won't legitamately know till you get there (and then...), just saying...
PLEASE DO NOT EVER POST IN MY THREADS AGAIN.
STFU.
THANK YUO.
Quote from: Hawk on May 03, 2007, 05:38:21 AM
Quote from: Ambassador KAOS on May 03, 2007, 05:15:28 AM
There is no absolute value (except hypothetically speaking, zero) universal truth or even truths (even that there isn't one). Arguing metaphysical symantics is mental masterbation and you won't legitamately know till you get there (and then...), just saying...
PLEASE DO NOT EVER POST IN MY THREADS AGAIN.
STFU.
THANK YUO.
Oh go cry about it to your mommy.
Seriously. People jack and spam my threads all day and pretty much every thread gets off subject anyhow and I wasn't even jacking your thread.
I'd consider respecting yoru wishes if you hadn't stuck in the cussing me out part, as it might indicate a polite request, but I won't, because you added that it and I won't set the precident that you nor anyone else gets anywhere with me by acting like a jerk.
For future communication try not being obnoxious if you want something from me, I don't respond positively to rudeness, maybe some people you know do, but i'm not one of them.
Sorry but we're not that close of friends.
Quote from: Ambassador KAOS on May 03, 2007, 06:45:40 AM
Oh go cry about it to your mommy.
Okay, people, the gloves are off.
It's open season on AKK. Do anything you like to his freads, and the moderation team will get really upset and might even send you a nasty PM. If we get around to it. Some time in 2008 or so.
I swear you guys were already doing that...
As far as I know you guys have jacked and spammed EVERY thread I've made...
Did I miss something?
Whatever...
I'm go back to ignoring you (and in doing so cut the jacking of this thread short) Roger because I can't even get a reasonable response to a reasonable question from you (see other thread about barstool).
Go away. Far away.
If you're going to ignore us anyway, why not do it at the bottom of a jagged cliff?
Quote from: Ambassador KAOS on May 03, 2007, 08:51:23 AM
I'm go back to ignoring you (and in doing so cut the jacking of this thread short) Roger because I can't even get a reasonable response to a reasonable question from you (see other thread about barstool).
if your ignoring us
why don't you just leave
find another community that may have some interest in your bull shit
Nice ponderings.
I was always under the impression that religion sort of sprang out from our fear of knowledge. People began to learn what caused things to happen, and they thought "Well, what caused that result to happen?" and so on. Made me think that they got afraid of things causing other things to happen, then the question of death was brought up and they came up with a cause for that finallity, being a religion.
It was then that the authorities got a hold of it and weaved a code of ethics into it and buggered up the whole thing.
My thoughts on the afterlife at this point in time are that when I go, my brain will create me an afterlife that's perfect for me. Why? Because my brain creates the reality I perceive right now, so why wouldn't it create me an another reality after my body goes kaput? I don't dwell on it, because I just figure it'll take care of itself.
Then again, that's how I deal with most things in my life...
Blame it on Rio!
- D
Quote from: SupaTaft on May 03, 2007, 11:54:23 PM
Nice ponderings.
I was always under the impression that religion sort of sprang out from our fear of knowledge. People began to learn what caused things to happen, and they thought "Well, what caused that result to happen?" and so on. Made me think that they got afraid of things causing other things to happen, then the question of death was brought up and they came up with a cause for that finallity, being a religion.
It was then that the authorities got a hold of it and weaved a code of ethics into it and buggered up the whole thing.
My thoughts on the afterlife at this point in time are that when I go, my brain will create me an afterlife that's perfect for me. Why? Because my brain creates the reality I perceive right now, so why wouldn't it create me an another reality after my body goes kaput? I don't dwell on it, because I just figure it'll take care of itself.
Then again, that's how I deal with most things in my life...
Blame it on Rio!
- D
Careful you don't take that too far, or next thing you know, you'll be jumping off of rooftops, convinced that gravity doesn't apply to you.
Quote from: LMNO on May 04, 2007, 01:29:39 PM
Quote from: SupaTaft on May 03, 2007, 11:54:23 PM
Nice ponderings.
I was always under the impression that religion sort of sprang out from our fear of knowledge. People began to learn what caused things to happen, and they thought "Well, what caused that result to happen?" and so on. Made me think that they got afraid of things causing other things to happen, then the question of death was brought up and they came up with a cause for that finallity, being a religion.
It was then that the authorities got a hold of it and weaved a code of ethics into it and buggered up the whole thing.
My thoughts on the afterlife at this point in time are that when I go, my brain will create me an afterlife that's perfect for me. Why? Because my brain creates the reality I perceive right now, so why wouldn't it create me an another reality after my body goes kaput? I don't dwell on it, because I just figure it'll take care of itself.
Then again, that's how I deal with most things in my life...
Blame it on Rio!
- D
Careful you don't take that too far, or next thing you know, you'll be jumping off of rooftops, convinced that gravity doesn't apply to you.
Eh, I'm too lazy to really believe anything I say, anyway.
I'm usually the one telling others that gravity doesn't exist.
- D
This thread indicates to me that any discussion mixing existential thought and discordians gets you solipsism.
*Sips his juicy-juice*
Oh, how I hate you all.
the problem is that discordians are so uber-smart that we can't really fathom how other people can really be as stupid as they seem. if we think about it too much, the only possible solution we can come up with is that we're actually just imagining the whole thing.
Quote from: vexati0n on May 05, 2007, 06:34:17 AM
the problem is that discordians are so uber-smart that we can't really fathom how other people can really be as stupid as they seem. if we think about it too much, the only possible solution we can come up with is that we're actually just imagining the whole thing.
:lulz: Reality is kinda un-fucking-believable isn't it.
Quote from: vexati0n on May 05, 2007, 06:34:17 AM
the problem is that discordians are so uber-smart that we can't really fathom how other people can really be as stupid as they seem. if we think about it too much, the only possible solution we can come up with is that we're actually just imagining the whole thing.
My wife calls it, "seeing which one of you can get to the top of Mount Cleverest first."
She's my own personal Barstool.
Not me, I'm perfectly happy at base camp. The cocoa is superb.
Oh, and nice visual with the Barstool reference. :D
Gives a new meaning when she says, "I'd hit it."
Quote from: Ambassador KAOS on May 03, 2007, 08:51:23 AM
I swear you guys were already doing that...
As far as I know you guys have jacked and spammed EVERY thread I've made...
Did I miss something?
Whatever...
I'm go back to ignoring you (and in doing so cut the jacking of this thread short) Roger because I can't even get a reasonable response to a reasonable question from you (see other thread about barstool).
WRONG.
It gets a LOT worse.