I don't know if this has been discused early
if so maybe a bump might be in order
was curious what do you all think has more of an influence the corruption of the situation someone finds themself in (ie the gears of the machine) or the individual people's influence?
probably type more after work
First off, I'm gonna re-syntax your question.
Quote from: Thurnez Isa on May 22, 2007, 01:42:33 PMI was curious, what do you all think has more of an influence: The corruption of the situation someone finds themself in (i.e. the gears of the Machine,Ñ¢), or the individual people's influence?
By Individual People, I'm guessing you mean the people around you in the corrupt situation.
I find it synergystic, based upon the self-awareness of the people. If the system is screwed up, and the people are unthinking, it makes the situation worse. If the people are trying to think for themselves, on the other hand, you might be able to break even.
If the 'gears' and the people are in agreement, then you're screwed, unless you have a better idea than them about what's going on. Your question really only applies when there's a difference between the agenda of the machine, and the agenda of the people around you. As for who is more influential, it depends on all kinds of stuff -- how long have you known these people, do you like them, do they like you, how much ability do you have for subversion, how conditioned are you/they? All that stuff. In most cases, if you're talking about your friends, they will have more of an effect than the Machine has, largely because the Machine's effect is usually carried out through other people anyway.
I'm not sure I understand the question. Has more influence on what?
and how do you measure influence? for example-
If I get in a fight with someone, what influenced me more to do so - the knobwad whom I am beating, or the society in which the situation exists?
I don't think its as simple as cause and effect.
You just wanted to use the word "knobwad".
YUO TOO, KNOBWAD!
I'd just to state, for the record, that I had no intention of saying KNOBWAD.
Unfortunately it was forced upon me by context.
I think it depends on the situation under question and the particular people you hang out with/are beholden to. For example, my husband has a very direct influence on most of the larger decisions in my life, but little day to day stuff is all about me and who I think might give a shit (he's not really one of them, thank gawd).
The answer, I believe, is that they work hand in hand. What you are talking about, or at least how I'm interpreting it, is environment vs. individual. It is clear there are environmental factors that can exist and exert influence just as there are individual influences within. I'll use the example I am familiar with which is substance abuse. There are two schools of thought to address substance abuse. Environmental Strategies and Strength based strategies. I think it's clear which one adresses which factors. An environmental strategy for substance abuse would be to target retailers who don't check ID's or to try to impact parents through forums, parenting classes, etc. A strength based looks at factors inside. The "Whys" if you will. A void within.
Aha! but right there you see a link to the environment. Perhaps the void is caused by bad parents or bad family experience. Right there you have the environment and individual inextricably woven into one situation.
So, the short answer is that, well, it depends. But you can't lose sight of one over the other because then nothing changes, ever.