Principia Discordia

Principia Discordia => Literate Chaotic => Topic started by: Iron Sulfide on June 30, 2007, 06:59:47 PM

Title: The Unauthorized Biography
Post by: Iron Sulfide on June 30, 2007, 06:59:47 PM
Prof Cram suggested i take an idea farther than an idea,
so here's the idea:


for those who actually liked (or even hated) Robert Anton Wilson's work,
i propose a Biography of him be created. completely erroneous.

but here's the kick. there needs to be loads and loads of contradiction,
or maybe even "opposing" biographies. The entire point being that if
anything whatsoever is to be saved of his work, anything even remotely worthy of
redemption, we have to obliterate anyone's future attempt at hero-worshipping him.

Kind of like what BIP is supposed to be doing for the PD, or like christians did (i assume) to the historical Rabbi Jeshua (Iseus/Jesu(s)).

i mean, we've already seen what can happen to the fringe of the fringe (i mean the inside fringe that borders "normal" thought and behaviours, as found acceptable in Article 345, s.s. 3 paragraph 9 of the Manual)...hero worship for thornley and hill. that missed the point, and they would be very ashamed of you.

which, i assume for others (it's certainly the case with me) is why we tend to THRASH the SENSES of people mindlessly posting 23skidoopenialgland bullshit.
cry havoc, and lose the dogma war!

as of now, i have to slave for the man for the next 9 hours, so i'm going to go do that.

any ideas or false-facts about RAW will be greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: The Unauthorized Biography
Post by: Payne on June 30, 2007, 07:03:11 PM
If you twisted RAWs head through 1081 degrees, the moon would explode.

Still don't like him that much though.
Title: Re: The Unauthorized Biography
Post by: hunter s.durden on June 30, 2007, 07:21:52 PM
Get 20 people to write a chapter each, without referencing what the other is writing.
Then compile it.
Title: Re: The Unauthorized Biography
Post by: Iron Sulfide on July 01, 2007, 06:35:56 PM
i like the second idea better
Title: Re: The Unauthorized Biography
Post by: Payne on July 01, 2007, 06:47:56 PM
The second idea was also more serious... Srsly.
Title: Re: The Unauthorized Biography
Post by: Iron Sulfide on July 01, 2007, 07:00:56 PM
and you happen to not like RAW.

go figure. maybe hunter doesn't, either. i don't give a shit.

if it's a rare thing these days, i like RAW anyway.

fuck you, i like the bible, too. and if i can lead christians further
away from all the literal bullshit with it, i feel that much better.
rampant apostacy, IRL.

it'll probably be something i flake on, anyway.
Title: Re: The Unauthorized Biography
Post by: Payne on July 01, 2007, 07:33:41 PM
Quote from: Prater Festwo on July 01, 2007, 07:00:56 PM
and you happen to not like RAW.

go figure. maybe hunter doesn't, either. i don't give a shit.

if it's a rare thing these days, i like RAW anyway.

fuck you, i like the bible, too. and if i can lead christians further
away from all the literal bullshit with it, i feel that much better.
rampant apostacy, IRL.

it'll probably be something i flake on, anyway.

I are re-reading the bible  :eek:. Fuck God, and Fuck RAW.

I'll still write a chapter for his bio, though. Just don't expect a glowing report...
Title: Re: The Unauthorized Biography
Post by: LMNO on July 02, 2007, 03:23:40 PM
RAW once headbutted a yak.




The yak died instantly.
Title: Re: The Unauthorized Biography
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on July 02, 2007, 03:33:27 PM
Quote from: LMNO on July 02, 2007, 03:23:40 PM
RAW once headbutted a yak.




The yak died instantly.

A yak is the only animal that can spell it's name
Title: Re: The Unauthorized Biography
Post by: Darth Cupcake on July 02, 2007, 03:41:23 PM
Prater Fest -- I have yet to read any RAW, actually. I fully intend to, and I will get back to you. I will most likely like it, since I tend to be rather generous toward the printed word. If that made sense.

I also dig Hunter's idea of everyone doing different chapters without consulting each other. I would be happy to write a chapter, even though I haven't read any RAW. That may actually make me more qualified; I cannot say.
Title: Re: The Unauthorized Biography
Post by: hunter s.durden on July 02, 2007, 03:50:56 PM
I was saying that would be a fun, chaotic mess of bullshit.
Everyone just writes about RAWs life without consulting each other, so there'd be contradictions and absurdity.

As for my personal feelings on him: I like his articles, and various quotes from his website. I never read his books, and I don't worship him. He was a cool guy with some fun ideas.
By the by, I have similar feeling about the bible. I constantly use my "Mask of Christianity" spell to straighten out confused people.
Title: Re: The Unauthorized Biography
Post by: Forteetu on July 02, 2007, 03:55:12 PM
Quote from: hunter s.durden on July 02, 2007, 03:50:56 PM
As for my personal feelings on him: I like his articles, and various quotes from his website. I never read his books, and I don't worship him. He was a cool guy with some fun ideas.
By the by, I have similar feeling about the bible. I constantly use my "Mask of Christianity" spell to straighten out confused people.

it is a wise warrior who uses their enemies own bullshit to baffle them
Title: Re: The Unauthorized Biography
Post by: hunter s.durden on July 02, 2007, 03:57:38 PM
Aye.
I was heavy in it, so my knowledge is deep.

But I think that goes for most of these back-slidden fucks.
Title: Re: The Unauthorized Biography
Post by: Cramulus on July 02, 2007, 04:00:07 PM
Robert Anton Wilson was born January 13th, 1932, in Brooklyn, New York. His parents were Jewish; his father, Sam Wilson, was a garment worker and his mother, Rachel Molly Gruber, was a housewife. Robert was named in honor of Rachel's biological mother, Roberta, "the mother she never knew", in Wilson's words. Wilson graduated from Rahway High School in New Jersey in 1951. He attended the University of Chicago, where he received a bachelor's degree (1955) and a master's degree (1956) in physics, before earning his doctorate (1960) in astronomy and astrophysics. During his time as an undergraduate, Wilson spent some time working in the laboratory of the geneticist H. J. Muller. From 1962 to 1968, he worked at the Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory in Cambridge, Massachusetts.

Wilson lectured annually at Harvard University until 1968, when he moved to Cornell University. He became a full professor at Cornell in 1971 and directed the Laboratory for Planetary Studies there. From 1972 to 1981 he was Associate Director of the Center for Radio Physics and Space Research at Cornell.





that's all actually about Carl Sagan.
Title: Re: The Unauthorized Biography
Post by: Payne on July 02, 2007, 04:02:23 PM
Quote from: Professor Cramulus on July 02, 2007, 04:00:07 PM

that's all actually about Carl Sagan.

Carl Sagan was named after a lost mother called Roberta?

That is seriously cool....

:lulz:

~~~Payne: Intentionally mis-reading posts since the War of the Roses.
Title: Re: The Unauthorized Biography
Post by: hunter s.durden on July 02, 2007, 04:05:30 PM
I like that.

I'm not sure what PF wants now, anyway.
Title: Re: The Unauthorized Biography
Post by: Darth Cupcake on July 02, 2007, 04:07:38 PM
Quote from: Payne on July 02, 2007, 04:02:23 PM
~~~Payne: Intentionally mis-reading posts since the War of the Roses.

Payne reveals that he is truly very very old ITT
Title: Re: The Unauthorized Biography
Post by: Forteetu on July 02, 2007, 04:08:18 PM
Quote from: Prater Festwo on June 30, 2007, 06:59:47 PM
any ideas or false-facts about RAW will be greatly appreciated.

As RAW lay on his death bed, his last spoken words were of the realisation that there were actually 9 circuits to the model of consciousness. And due to this, he also said that he now realised that Rice Krispy Treats were way better when made with Coco Krispies.
Title: Re: The Unauthorized Biography
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on July 02, 2007, 04:20:07 PM
CHapter 9

It was a little less than a year after the spice rack incident when, probably still reeling from the sudden realisation, Wilson took up residence in a small fishing village just outside Oban, on the west coast of scotland. Using the fish gutting skills he picked up in india he quickly gained a reputation for his dilligent attention to detail. And, within a period of six months, had saved enough money to fully fund a second himalayan expedition, this time doubling the number of sherpas.

So it was that he found himself in the middle of downtown himalia on a wet and windy october morning, with three hundred scottish pounds, 34 sherpas and a suitcase full of rare nicaraguan beetles. His second attempt on the summit was to prove successul but the cost in terms of human life was sufficiently high to ensure that, until the day he died, wilson would never carry foreign insects up another mountain.
Title: Re: The Unauthorized Biography
Post by: Cramulus on July 02, 2007, 04:24:24 PM
Quote from: Forteetu on July 02, 2007, 04:08:18 PM
Quote from: Prater Festwo on June 30, 2007, 06:59:47 PM
any ideas or false-facts about RAW will be greatly appreciated.

As RAW lay on his death bed, his last spoken words were of the realisation that there were actually 9 circuits to the model of consciousness. And due to this, he also said that he now realised that Rice Krispy Treats were way better when made with Coco Krispies.

hmm, that's a bit outlandish. I think we're trying for something which could pass as a biography.






Wilson wrote or edited more than 500 books and an estimated 90,000 letters and postcards, and has works in nine of the ten major categories of the Dewey Decimal System (lacking only an entry in the 100s category of Philosophy). Wilson's most famous work is the Illuminatus! trilogy; his other major series are the Shrodinger's Cat series and the Principia Discordia, both of which he later tied into the same fictional universe as Illuminatus!. He penned numerous short stories, among them "Nightfall", which was voted by the Science Fiction Writers of America the best of its kind up to 1964. He also wrote mysteries and fantasy, as well as a great amount of nonfiction. Wilson wrote the Lucky Starr series of juvenile science-fiction novels using the pen name Paul French.

Most of Wilson's popularized science books explain scientific concepts in a historical way, going as far back as possible to a time when the science in question was at its simplest stage. He often provides nationalities, birth dates, and death dates for the scientists he mentions, as well as etymologies and pronunciation guides for technical terms. Examples include Prometheus Rising, the three volume set Understanding Quantum Psychology, and Wilson's Chronology of Science and Discovery.





based on: Isaac Asimov
Title: Re: The Unauthorized Biography
Post by: LMNO on July 02, 2007, 04:26:42 PM
Wilson was born and brought up in Leicester. He left school at 16 and worked in factories and numerous other jobs while reading in his spare time. In 1956, at the age of 24, he published The Outsider, which examines the role of the social "outsider" in seminal works of various key literary and cultural figures (notably Albert Camus, Jean-Paul Sartre, Ernest Hemingway, Hermann Hesse, Fyodor Dostoyevsky, T.E. Lawrence, Vaslav Nijinsky and Vincent Van Gogh) and aspects of alienation in their works. The book was very successful and was a serious contribution to the popularization of existentialism in Britain. Its welcome by leading figures of their day was shortlived and Wilson was subsequently vilified.

Wilson was labelled as an Angry Young Man: he did contribute to Declaration, an anthology of manifestos by writers associated with the movement, and a chapter of The Outsider was excerpted in a popular paperback sampler, Protest: The Beat Generation and the Angry Young Men. Wilson, along with his friends Bill Hopkins and Stuart Holroyd , was viewed as forming a sub-group among the "Angries", a group more concerned with "religious values" than liberal or socialist politics. Critics on the left were swift to label them as fascistic; commentator Kenneth Allsop called them "the law givers".

Wilson's works include a substantial focus on positive aspects of human psychology such as peak experiences and the narrowness of consciousness. Wilson admired, and was in contact with, for example, humanistic psychologist, Abraham Maslow. Wilson also published in 1980 The War Against Sleep: The Philosophy of Gurdjieff, a text concerned with the life, work and philosophy of G. I. Gurdjieff, which forms an accessible introduction to the Greek-Armenian mystic. Wilson essentially argues throughout his whole work that the existentialist focus on defeat or nausea is only a partial representation of reality and that there is no particular reason for accepting it. In his view normal everyday consciousness buffetted by the moment is blinkered, and should not be accepted as necessarily showing us the truth about reality. This blinkering has some evolutionary advantages in that it stops us being completely immersed in wonder or in the huge stream of events, and hence unable to act. However, to live properly we need to access more than this everyday consciousness. To Wilson our peak experiences of joy and meaningfulness can be seen to be as real as our experiences of angst, and indeed as we seem more fully alive at these moments, they can be said to be more real. Furthermore these experiences can be cultivated, as a side effect, through concentration, paying attention, relaxation and certain types of work. Wilson tends to argue that compulsive criminality is a manifestation of a pathological attempt to gain peak experiences through violence. This effort is bound to fail in the long run, leading the criminal to greater extremes of violence or to a desire to be caught.

Wilson has also explored his ideas through fiction, including many novels, mostly detective fiction or horror fiction, the latter including several Cthulhu Mythos pieces. On a dare from August Derleth, Colin Wilson wrote The Mind Parasites, as another tool to take a look at his own ideas (which suffuse all of his works), putting them in the guise of fiction. One of his novels, The Space Vampires, was made into the movie, Lifeforce, directed by Tobe Hooper.

Wilson has also written extensive non-fiction books about crime and various metaphysical and occult themes. In 1971, he published The Occult: A History featuring exegesis on Aleister Crowley, Gurdjieff, Helena Petrovna Blavatsky, Kabbalah, primitive magic, Franz Anton Mesmer, Gregor Rasputin, Daniel Dunglas Home, and Paracelsus among others. He has also written a biography of Crowley, called Aleister Crowley: The Nature of the Beast. Wilson's initial theories of the occult focused on the cultivation of what he called "Faculty X" which leads to an increased sense of meaning and possibly to effects akin to telepathy or awareness of other energies. In his later work on this subject he seems to accept the possibility of life after death and the existence of spirits.

Wilson is mentioned in the refrain of The Fall's "Deer Park," on their 1982 album Hex Enduction Hour








Oh, this is the bio fo Colin Wilson.  Whoops.
Title: Re: The Unauthorized Biography
Post by: hunter s.durden on July 02, 2007, 04:35:01 PM
RAW in school

Early on in young Roberts life, it was evident that he was afflicted with some sort of learning disability. While "slow" was a popular phrase in that day, his teachers were reluctant to use it. He was rather fast in fact. In the first grade he finished his first math test in only 2 minutes, but all of the answers were wrong. In his fourth grade spelling bee, he was rejected for spelling the word floccinauccinihilipilification, when the given word was actually osmosis. By sixth grade he was writing college level papers on subjects not even discussed in his classes.
This trend continued into his working life. His Illuminatus Trilogy was written after assigned by a publisher to write a book on Canada's liquor industry.
Title: Re: The Unauthorized Biography
Post by: LMNO on July 02, 2007, 04:37:02 PM
When Wilson was a young boy, he was attacked by a rabid possum.  The wounds in his leg never healed properly, but shamed as he was about his inability to fend off a possum, he claimed to have suffered from polio.
Title: Re: The Unauthorized Biography
Post by: Darth Cupcake on July 02, 2007, 04:38:04 PM
Hunter and LMNO --

:mittens: and :mittens:

Those two are brilliant. :lulz:
Title: Re: The Unauthorized Biography
Post by: Cramulus on July 02, 2007, 09:09:02 PM
hxxp://www.discordianism.com/wiki/index.php/Robert_Anton_Wilson
Title: Re: The Unauthorized Biography
Post by: Triple Zero on July 02, 2007, 09:14:42 PM
i was hoping to find something about him on http://uncyclopedia.org/ .. but nothing there, it seems.
Title: Re: The Unauthorized Biography
Post by: Mangrove on July 02, 2007, 09:23:05 PM
Robert Anton Wilson was an avid paleontologist. His most celebrated find was the remains of two fossilized Pterodactyls in Mexico.

Title: Re: The Unauthorized Biography
Post by: Darth Cupcake on July 02, 2007, 09:24:26 PM
Quote from: Mangrove on July 02, 2007, 09:23:05 PM
Robert Anton Wilson was an avid paleontologist. His most celebrated find was the remains of two fossilized Pterodactyls in the PD.com fora.



:D

Nonetheless, brilliant, sir, brilliant!
Title: Re: The Unauthorized Biography
Post by: Deepthroat Chopra on July 03, 2007, 01:07:48 AM
The Polio Years

Unfortunately for the Wilson family, young Robert Anton contracted Polio after polishing off a Seafood Basket at their summer home in Katmandu. His father, Leo "Wilson" Tolstoy, was heard to curse "Never Again with the Fckin' deep fryer! My son! If only they'd included tartare sauce!"

Despite months of grieving, the polio turned out to be a blessing in disguise, as the young RAW, socially isolated, withdrew into himself, and developed an alter-ego who took the name "Gabriel Garcia Marquez". At the age of seven, RAW's alter-ego wrote "One Hundred Years of Solitude", and mailed the manuscript to Colombia for publishing. To this day, the entire literary world believes the book was written by a Colombian whonlived on the Carribean Coast, that voluntarily builds hospitals in Cuba and cheers for Atletico Medellin in Colombia's natuional football league.

At the age of eight, after winning the nobel prize for literature, young RAW, or Gabriel to his publisher, wrote "Love in the time of Polio". The release of the book was met with widespread protests throughout Latin America, as angry mobs carried signs reading, for example, "You B@stard! Polio killed my mate, Pedro!", and "If there's going to be books in South America, how about a bit of literacy please!". In a master-stroke of genius, the publisher re-named the book "Love in the time of Cholera", which dissipated the protests; protesters fearing they would catch the contagion from the other shoddily dressed trouble-makers.

Unfortunately for RAW's early Latin American writing career, his mother, Germaine "Wilson" Greer, read about the Sister Kenny method of treating polio. Roughly, this method involves inviting a nun around to the house where the polio victim lay, and getting the two of them to shag each other rotten. In 1940, a Sister was despatched from Sister Kenny's Bordello in Long Island, and RAW became a man. A man whose legs worked. The nun, a Sister Sky, continued to treat Polio from a shop-front on the east-side of Amsterdam. RAW met with her, to prevent a relapse, as often as possible.

To this day, however, RAW has undergone counselling to try and overcome his bizarre habit on insisting he has tartare sauce with every meal. Orgone therapy left him feeling good for a minute, but then he poured tartare over his bacon and egg roll, leaving Willhelm Reich exasperated. During an all-night NLP session, some progress seemed to be made, but some w@nker thought it would be funny to knock RAW out with a bar-stool, so the therapy proved inconclusive. Before his death, he joined a circle of New Age Bach Flower Remedy lunatics, who have taught him to embrace tartare sauce, and any symptoms of Post-polio Syndrome (PPS) that may develop.

When recently stopped limping naked through Berkely, he was heard to mutter "I gotta get me some hot nun action...and where's the Fckin' Tartare!". It is rumoured that before he died, he wrote under the Pseudonym, Barbara Cartland. This may be true.

TBC...
Title: Re: The Unauthorized Biography
Post by: Iron Sulfide on July 03, 2007, 06:19:38 PM
[wipes a tear]

more than i could hope for. i'll try to bang some shite up after/during
work today.
Quote
Prater Fest -- I have yet to read any RAW, actually. I fully intend to, and I will get back to you. I will most likely like it, since I tend to be rather generous toward the printed word. If that made sense.

I also dig Hunter's idea of everyone doing different chapters without consulting each other. I would be happy to write a chapter, even though I haven't read any RAW. That may actually make me more qualified; I cannot say.

i think, more than anything else, this makes you qualified. you can write whatever you want now, without preconcieved ideas, and your bullshit will be your own, not his.

Hunter- what Denomination/Sect were you steeped in?
i happen to come from a baptist/open bible background.
I have Apostate Cancer, and the only cure is more Lail

LMNO- brilliant, as always. apply to the onion. Now.

Hunter- thanks for fielding the young years.

deepthroat- i've seen deeper throats than that before. keep writing. or not.

Prof Cram- i like the angle of using real peoples' bios and replacing it with his.
i'm going to do the same, with jesus now, and replace with RAW.

and Ghandi. I CALL DIBBS.

in the compiled version (it may be a book, it may be a lengthy article...)
i'm just going to credit everyone who did writing, and not what part tey wrote...

anything i should add?

Slander is the kindest way to repay a Martyr.
Title: Re: The Unauthorized Biography
Post by: hunter s.durden on July 03, 2007, 07:45:13 PM
I was raised Presbyterian, Catholic, and some sort of Pentecostal type thing (I think it was called Church of God, which confused me... aren't all churches of God?).  Basically I got a little taste of every sect.
Title: Re: The Unauthorized Biography
Post by: Iron Sulfide on July 05, 2007, 05:22:48 AM
nice. we should work on some apostate stuff sometime.

well, here it is. my chapter, in interview form.

i wrote it on my lunch break yesterday; took me 'til now to post it...
federal holidays make people crazier than shit-gollems.

sans adieu:

Gallows Humor: An Interview with R.A. Wilson On His Death Bed

   I entered what used to be a hospital room until he moved into it. Now it looks like the Mickey Mouse Mausoleum. He,Äôs covered all the gadgets and do-hickies with fan art, newspaper clippings, old drug paraphernalia, old drugs,Ķthe Mickey Mouse Mausoleum isn,Äôt far off from the Manson Family House. He even scribbled lines from ,ÄúHelter Skelter,Äù on the walls. He makes a crack about Helen Keller as I sit down.

[RAW] ,Äú,Ķyou know, she gives the best hand-jobs ever. Maybe I,Äôm just setting her on a ,ÄúPedo,Äù stool,Ķ,Äù

   I look up from my planner long enough to stare blankly at him and lose track of time.

[Me] ,ÄúSo how much longer are you going to be here? Days? Months?

[RAW] ,ÄúShit; I,Äôm already gone. I was born that way. What,Äôcha readin,Äô?,Äù

[Me] ,ÄúYou know, fro a writer, you certainly slaughter the spoken word. This is just my day planner; I use it to figure out what I,Äôm going to do, take notes, jot down ideas, the usual.,Äù

[RAW: grabs my planner] ,ÄúLooks like a lot of chicken scratch to me. You know the saying, ,Äòyou can only write as good as you talk?,Äô,Äù

[Me] ,ÄúNo, and it,Äôs ,Äòwell,Äô.,Äù

[RAW] ,ÄúWell, it ain,Äôt true. See, the words we utilize in order to convey a thought- abstract or concrete- are only as effective as the situation allows for. If you speak out of context, you ain,Äôt talkin,Äô right.,Äù

[Me] ,ÄúNeat, can I have it back now?,Äù

[RAW: hands me my planner] ,ÄúYou know the problem with today,Äôs kids?,Äù

[Me] I don,Äôt care, that,Äôs not why I,Äôm here.,Äù

[RAW] ,ÄúThen why are you here? Why are you ,Äònow,Äô for that matter?,Äù

[Me] ,ÄúHwy, if I want to hear inane shit, I,Äôll watch a G.W. speech, or rent a ,Äòhot pick,Äô flick.,Äù

[RAW] ,ÄúHow astute! That,Äôs exactly what,Äôs wrong with this new generation. And that,Äôs why I,Äôve spent so much time writing. I,Äôll pause while you write that down.,Äô

[Me] ,ÄúHow courteous,Ķ,Äù [I fake-write what he said, actually sketching a dead baby] ,ÄúI,Äôd appreciate it if you stopped imitating the way I talk; the readers will think I wrote this on my own.,Äù

[RAW] ,ÄúI,Äôd appreciate it if YOU stopped imitating the way I talk; people might think you,Äôre one of my fans.,Äù

[Me] ,ÄúTouch?©. So what exactly is it that,Äôs wrong with people today? Generally?,Äù

[RAW] ,ÄúThe world is caught in a whirlwind of fever dreams, as it mumbles incoherently through restless sleep. Day in, day out; another tally on the cell wall, scrawled with a piece of bone that used to be the thumb on your off hand. Everything,Äôs been jumbled since we entered the dream. How else can you explain preferential handedness? Sure, the dream started out nice; it even gave an Enlightenment to Logic and Reason. Now, however, it has become the dumbest thing I,Äôve ever heard. Doesn,Äôt that make it a mute point? What,Äôs the dumbest thing you,Äôve ever heard?,Äù

[Me] ,ÄúThe dumbest thing I,Äôve heard is ,Äòmaybe,Äô as a logical premise.,Äù

[RAW] ,ÄúFair enough. It may be.,Äù

[Me] ,ÄúNow that we,Äôve established that you are dreaming, why don,Äôt you demonstrate some lucid dream powers? You can do that, right?,Äù

[RAW] ,ÄúWell, actually,Ķno. the thing about fever dreams is that, no matter how outlandish they are, you never question if it,Äôs a dream. And pretty soon, all the whiney kids at Starbucks steal the chairs around you that were intended for people you don,Äôt know, but could haven possibly met. That,Äôs how fever dreams work.,Äù

[Me] ,ÄúSo the chairs are the dream? Or the whiney kids are?,Äù


[RAW] ,ÄúNo, the kids are dreamers. The chairs are only part of the dream. You,Äôre the rest; the left-overs that they didn,Äôt want.,Äù

[Me] ,ÄúOuch,Ķnice rebuttal. So what are some strange dreams you,Äôve had, then?,Äù

[RAW] ,ÄúOne time, I had this dream that I was a grandfather paradox. I went back in time, I think it was the 17-1800s, and met the most beautiful woman. Nature took care of the rest, and I screwed my own great grandma,Äô. Other stuff that happened in the dream gave me ideas for the Bavarian illuminati in my book,Ķ[pause]

[Me] ,Äú,ĶIlluminatus!?,Äù

[RAW] ,ÄúYes! I only paused so you would have to write a question mark after an exclamation mark. Did you know that both of those are derived from Egyptian hieroglyphs? They represent a cat,Äôs tail and ass-hole. Make sure you hyphenate ,Äòass-hole.,Äô I hate it when the syntax implies a separation between the two.,Äù

[Me} ,ÄúEgyptian hieroglyphs? Sure,Ķ,Äù

[RAW] ,ÄúNo, really. The question mark is a cat in a curious state; the exclamation is when he,Äôs on edge. Take a hit and look again.,Äù [He offers a bong load of already burnt weed, sitting by his heart monitor.]

[Me] ,ÄúThat,Äôs alright, I,Äôll pass and take you word on this one. What other dreams have you had? I want something good; none more of that joke-dream crap.,Äù

[RAW] ,ÄúOkay, but that dream wasn,Äôt a joke. Let,Äôs see,Ķ I could tell you about,ĶI,Äôm trying to think of a good one, the we,Äôll move on- I have far more interesting things to talk about. Besides: all dreams are weird, without regard to how mundane they are.
   ,ÄúThere,Äôs this one recurring dream I have, even more so  now, close to the end. It always starts differently: I,Äôm mowing the lawn, shopping for groceries, at a coffee shop, working some obscure, manual-labor job- whatever. And then, at the height of the tedium, I notice everything in the distance is two-dimensional; a backdrop for a play, or T.V. shows in some warehouse. Then the backdrop starts moving, and I spin around to find everyone I,Äôve ever known in life, laughing and pointing at me. Confused, I ask what the deal is. Then they say, ,ÄúGotcha!,Äù and I wake up. No joke.,Äù

[Me] ,ÄúThat,Äôs like this dream I,Äôve had a few times. Always starts differently; then I realize I,Äôm dreaming and try to wake up; then I wake up into another dream, ad infinitum until I finally wake up,Ķ,Äù

[RAW] ,ÄúSounds like you,Äôre on the verge of waking up from this dream.,Äù

[Me] ,ÄúI wish this were a dream.,Äù

[RAW]  ,ÄúWhat if I told you it IS?,Äù

[Me] ,ÄúWhat did I tell you about inanities? Moving on: are you afraid of death? Especially now that it,Äôs so near?,Äù

[RAW] ,ÄúNot at all.,Äù

[Me] ,ÄúWhat do you think happens after you die?,Äù

[RAW] ,ÄúNothing. Everything. Okay, I have no idea, but it,Äôs probably something. It has been so far,Ķ,Äù

[Me] ,ÄúAnd what were you diagnosed with?,Äù

[RAW] ,ÄúGiggles and the Herp.,Äù
[Me] ,ÄúNo, really,Ķ,Äù

[RAW] ,ÄúREALLY? I,Äôm so stoned right now I can,Äôt even care, let alone remember.,Äù

[Me] ,ÄúFine. What about Discordia? The Church of the SubGenius? Did you create them?,Äù

[RAW] ,ÄúHa, ha,Ķ[sighs],Ķperhaps the lamest joke I,Äôve ever told. I had nothing to do with those, either of ,Äòem. I think at one point I may have claimed that I did. Not sure, what with all the drugs I,Äôve done. Even Thornley and Hill didn,Äôt start it. My guess? Failed attempts by the illuminati to confuse the masses. They only ended up amusing the messes.,Äù

[Me] ,ÄúAre you incapable of refraining from puns and lame jokes? Is everything set-up for a one-liner with you?,Äù

[RAW] ,ÄúOf course,Ķ,Äù

[Me] ,ÄúSTOP IT!,Äù

[RAW] ,ÄúCan,Äôt, it,Äôs part of the dream. Besides, if it,Äôs all nonsense anyway, what,Äôs the worst I can do to it by making it absurd as well?,Äù

[The interview abruptly ended when he turned into a platypus, and I awoke in a cold sweat, holding onto my phallus for dear life.]
Title: Re: The Unauthorized Biography
Post by: Daruko on March 27, 2008, 11:15:47 PM
Really enjoying the work so far.  I am surprised that more Discordians wouldn't be fond of Robert Anton Wilson's work, but I surprise easily.  I love his books though.  For those of you who haven't read, you might consider Cosmic Trigger.  It's well worth a read for anyone, and not just for kicks.   It's a very useful field manual for reimprinting.
Title: Re: The Unauthorized Biography
Post by: LMNO on March 28, 2008, 01:34:47 PM


Some of us have read it and liked it.
Some of us have read it and did not like it.
Some of us haven't read it, but want to.
Some of us haven't read it strictly out of principle.

Title: Re: The Unauthorized Biography
Post by: Daruko on March 28, 2008, 02:15:27 PM
Understood, and I certainly wouldn't be impressed if you let me persuade you... However, the "strictly out of principle" is goofy sometimes. 

It's like music.  The music I like is often obscure and created from independent smaller labels.  I can't stand mainstream pre-digested trendy poppy american idol britney spears bullshit music.  HOWEVER, I will give anything a listen.  Just BECAUSE something is popular and endorsed by mainstream trendy imbeciles, does not NECESSARILY mean it isn't worth listening to.

Same with, let's say, Star Wars.  There are people who refuse to even watch it, because of it's popularity and surrounding fanaticism.  But that's ridiculous.  You may as well start going to Star Wars conventions.  You're doing the same thing.

To be disenchanted from something due to it's hype is the same thing as being attracted to it because of it's hype. 

I hate language right now, because I'm not getting at what I'm trying to say.  I'll just tell you how it SEEMS to me.  It seems like a lot of Discordians are disinteresting in reading Wilson just because a lot of Discordians ARE.  Either way, it's subjective, and people will make up their own damn minds, as well as they should. 

Not reading ANYTHING out of "principle" sounds dangerously dogmatic.  Many Christians fear reading anything that contradicts their own views.  I am a strong proponent for self-programming, but I also strongly endorse BREAKING programming, even self-programming.  Not reading the Satanic Bible because of principle would be ridiculous.  Not reading the Satanic Bible because you know something about how ignorantly narcissistic Anton Lavey was, and because you've possibly fallen asleep and/or gotten sick reading his imbecilic rants before is quite reasonable. 

Anyway, enough about Wilson.  What I'm REALLY discouraging here is rampant indulgence in absorbing only information that fits into a certain box. 

I don't know.  Am I possibly the one missing something here?

I'm trying to imagine saying this myself, "I refuse to read _________ out of principle."   Doesn't seem like anything makes sense in that blank. 

Now this:  "I refuse to read __________ because I have plenty of other stuff I'm more eager to consume," makes more sense, but that's a different thing entirely than this PRINCIPLE we've been discussing.
Title: Re: The Unauthorized Biography
Post by: LMNO on March 28, 2008, 02:18:42 PM
QuoteI don't know.  Am I possibly the one missing something here?

There is also the possibility they're saying they won't read it on principle as a troll.


For the record, I've read just about everything RAW has written, and have found a handful of good ideas, which is more than I can say about some writers.
Title: Re: The Unauthorized Biography
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on March 28, 2008, 08:25:05 PM

I've never seen the movie Titanic, and I plan not to. Ever. By your logic I am the world's biggest Titanic fan.

I have a friend who's constantly trying to get me to read Borges.

Every once in a while someone tries to convince me that I would love Lou Reed.

People make illogical connections all the time. They assume that because they like both A and B, therefore if you like A you will also like B.

When it all comes down to dust, though, who cares what other people enjoy, or why, as long as it doesn't infringe on your ability to enjoy what you do?
Title: Re: The Unauthorized Biography
Post by: LMNO on March 28, 2008, 08:38:34 PM
Actually, you probably would like Borges.
Title: Re: The Unauthorized Biography
Post by: Cramulus on March 28, 2008, 08:56:17 PM
well said, Daruko. I think you'll get along pretty well around here.
Title: Re: The Unauthorized Biography
Post by: Daruko on March 28, 2008, 09:06:37 PM
QuoteI've never seen the movie Titanic, and I plan not to. Ever. By your logic I am the world's biggest Titanic fan.

I don't think you understood.  I was talking about not wanting to check something out PURELY because of the hype.  In the case of the Titanic, it seems more like this situation:

QuoteNot reading the Satanic Bible because you know something about how ignorantly narcissistic Anton Lavey was, and because you've possibly fallen asleep and/or gotten sick reading his imbecilic rants before is quite reasonable. 

Damn it!  How do I say who the quote is from? 

Anyway, as far as infringing on your ability to enjoy what you do... I thought I made my feelings about that clear by saying:

QuoteEither way, it's subjective, and people will make up their own damn minds, as well as they should.

Besides, we're talking apples and oranges here.  RAW is by no means a comparison with Titanic.  I hated that movie.  Again, subjective, but that's exactly what my opinions are, so....   I'll just state my opinion as crude truth:  If you like Discordianism and hate everything by RAW, you're missing something.

Quotewell said, Daruko. I think you'll get along pretty well around here.

Too kind, but thank you.
Title: Re: The Unauthorized Biography
Post by: LMNO on March 28, 2008, 09:11:54 PM
That's where the "principle" comes in.
Title: Re: The Unauthorized Biography
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on March 28, 2008, 11:04:13 PM
Quote from: daruko on March 28, 2008, 09:06:37 PM
QuoteI've never seen the movie Titanic, and I plan not to. Ever. By your logic I am the world's biggest Titanic fan.

I don't think you understood.  I was talking about not wanting to check something out PURELY because of the hype.  In the case of the Titanic, it seems more like this situation:

QuoteNot reading the Satanic Bible because you know something about how ignorantly narcissistic Anton Lavey was, and because you've possibly fallen asleep and/or gotten sick reading his imbecilic rants before is quite reasonable. 

No, basically I didn't see it when it came out because all the hype irritated me, as did being told that I "had" to see it by friends who loved it. So that seems to sort of fall into the category of "principle". Now I am not seeing it because it's not that interesting and also I have a long-standing tradition of not having see it, which I would hate to break.

Really, it's a stupid and pointless reason. At the same time, no one really needs a GOOD reason to not watch/read anything. All reasons are somewhat arbitrary on some level.

QuoteIf you like Discordianism and hate everything by RAW, you're missing something.

How do you come to that conclusion? Are you sure that you're not missing something if you don't see what another Discordian dislikes about RAW? Or maybe you're missing something AND they're missing something, because everybody is always missing something all the time.

Title: Re: The Unauthorized Biography
Post by: Daruko on March 29, 2008, 12:01:57 AM
I think not watching/reading something because it has hype will simply expose you to a narrower field of experience for no good reason, yes, as you say.  You are correct that reasons are arbitrary, but that doesn't mean that they're not useful.  Logic isn't necessary, but often doing things logically is a more effective method than mood for obtaining more pleasurable experiences. 

Futhermore, I feel that if I allow the hype or popularity of something to determine my level of interest, that I am behaving robotically.  If one becomes a christian to fit in with christian family/friends it is often because one has been programmed thus, and it is a condition of the same program to revolt against the christian.  I prefer to see as many things as possible without being affected by the rules of that program.

As far as Wilson and Discordianism goes, I'm not sure I want to defend the statement I made there.  It seems to entail a lot of work.... Let me think....

Hmm.... 

Typing  Hmm as I was reading over your post again.  heh   Oh I see.  Yes, you are quite right Nigel.  I am possibly missing something.  However, I personally will most likely continue to connect the dots between RAW explanations of profound ideas and Discordian ones.  I group things in my personal group right up there with the many others who have touched the same truths that are beyond ideology and language.  Alan Watts was great with words.   The Map is not the Territory, Maybe Logic, and so on... That stuff isn't about our definitions.  There are thousands of ways to try and talk about it.    The Tao te Ching is full of this crap.  Discordianism is (holy shit what am i getting into) about seeing past the beliefs, the language, the definitions, and I think that was what RAW was all about.   Keep many models.  Keep thinking.  Stop knowing.  simultaneous interacting processing. 

Does that makes sense?

Adding here:  I mean, seriously... What makes this a Discordian forum?  If RAW was alive and had an account here and posted stuff he wrote in his books, I'd be willing to bet it'd blend better than his books really do.  Because his name is ROBERT ANTON WILSON.   Now before anyone gets up in arms, lol, I will explain that the reason I would bet that is because Wilson HAS hype, not because I don't give due credit to this forum, of which I have a very limited imprint so far.
Title: Re: The Unauthorized Biography
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on March 29, 2008, 12:26:09 AM
Hmmm. Your position seems to be hinging on the idea that basing your discrimination on popularity or lack thereof is not a useful screening tool.

I have to disagree. No matter what, everyone has to limit their scope of education, and if you have observed that you typically get less out of things that are popular, then that is a reasonable place to set a parameter. It means you will probably miss out on things you would have found enjoyable/enlightening, but you will miss out on some things no matter where you set your parameters. I don't have cable because I have observed that television doesn't generally interest me. Am I missing out on some good shows which I would have enjoyed and possibly might have made me think about the world in a different way? Probably. Every choice, every parameter excludes an alternative. Choosing to read the Illuminatus! trilogy means that there are other books out there that I will not read.

There is also the possibility that choosing popularity as a parameter is based on the idea that the popular territory is already being explored rather thoroughly, and a desire to find territory that is not already being combed over.

Title: Re: The Unauthorized Biography
Post by: Daruko on March 29, 2008, 01:21:07 AM
Actually I think we're pretty similar here.  I DO recognize the useful screening tool.   Every situation has it's own inherent variables, and this obviously isn't a matter of the RIGHT perspective.  I think Wilson hype is a bit different than Britney Spears hype. 

Let me use someone I'm not into that also has a lot of Discordian hype as an example.  Ivan Stang.  I don't really like his stuff.  I don't think he's all that funny, and his writing are generally very uninteresting to me.  But chances are that I MAY like something of his.  Chances are it's a hell of a lot more interesting than Bob Hope.  His reputation/image/hype tells me something about his associations, just like Britney Spears.  I will not actively pursue Britney Spears' little sisters debut album tour premiering on FOX Tonight, because of her association.  So the hype affects me.  HOWEVER, IF I am exposed to it inadvertently I WILL TRY to listen to it open-mindedly.   But Wilson can't possibly make people gag like Spears does.  lol

Lot of variables here though.  When we talk about Wilson hype in a Discordian forum it's a LOT different than Titanic hype.  Wilson was a Discordian.  Titanic is not.    I mean, I don't want to argue this point anymore, because I'm getting confused right now.  I'm tired.  lol

It really is totally your business what the hell you absorb.  I always get hung up somewhere between the language of taste and what's fucking stupid.  Taste is taste, but I still contend that the Flaming Lips are a hell of a lot more interesting than prefabricated pop idol bullshit.  Ask me to give you a philosophical explanation, and I get lost or tired or both.

BTW, I also disconnected the cable cord over 4 years ago, and haven't regretted it a bit.  Congratulations on your freedom from TV!  Isn't it grand?
I still watch movies and play games on my 57"  HD.  A lot of games.  Good ones.   :evil:

I guess if I have anything more to say on the matter, it'd be that popularity is often misleading and when used as the sole determining factor of whether to TUNE IN or NOT TO TUNE IN, you may be missing more than you think.  But hey, it's your station.   I totally respect that.

Cosmic Trigger is REALLLY good though   :D

Addition:  I hope some coherent form of consistency emerges here in my last two posts.  I think when read literally I'm contradicting myself all over the place, perhaps.  But jesus christ, if you take me literally, it won't matter what I say will it?   :wink:

Addition #2:  I think there's also something to be said for checking out shit you hate sometimes, with an open mind, even when you know you shouldn't.  Wilson talks about this.  Read some right wing fascist nazi propaganda sometime like you really believe it.  Then take notes.  Try it.  I've gotten good results from listening to Rush Limbaugh lately.
Title: Re: The Unauthorized Biography
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on March 29, 2008, 01:46:45 AM
I guess the one small part of my point that I may not have expressed well enough is that while making choices about what you absorb will mean you miss out on something,  it doesn't necessarily mean that what you choose to absorb isn't just as good, or better, for you at that point in time.

Choosing not to read RAW doesn't mean assiduously avoiding any of his creative output. Choosing not to listen to Ween doesn't mean assiduously avoiding any exposure to Ween. It just means making the choice to put in other music when it's under your control. I've never read any RAW before very recently, because there were other things I was more interested in reading. The Iluminatus! trilogy is a pleasant read, but I don't feel like I've been missing out, nor am I somehow Discordia-impaired, by not having read it before now.
Title: Re: The Unauthorized Biography
Post by: Daruko on March 29, 2008, 01:55:26 AM
I can totally understand that.

As a "matter of principle" though?  lol  Just teasing.  I think I get the jist of where you're coming from.
Title: Re: The Unauthorized Biography
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on March 29, 2008, 02:19:54 AM
Quote from: LMNO on March 28, 2008, 08:38:34 PM
Actually, you probably would like Borges.

I have an anthology I've been meaning to get around to for several years... maybe after I finish my RAW bender I'll get on it.