JOKE OR RELIGION?
To answer this I will be drawing on experiences from the recent Discordian philosophical adventure, the Black Iron Prison.
It has been seen by a lot of people. Some have caught on, others have rejected it.
Rejection of the BIP metaphor in itself says nothing except it isn't somebody's cup of tea.
But there is a pattern of specific criticisms of the BIP that tend toward "So What" or "Now What" or "That's a Depressing/Goth/Futile philosophy."
These obviously are misguided but I don't think it's a failure of the BIP to explain itself, because if nothing else, BIP is a collection of very specifically-worded ideas that, even if you interpret what they interpret differently, don't allow much room for missing the point entirely.
Instead, it is that those who level these criticisms are following the time-honored human tradition of rejecting abstract frames of reference that do not present themselves, in the end, as justification for concrete action. People have been trained (or maybe evolved) to expect their abstractions to give them some direction in a life that is chaotic and full of the unexpected.
Religions like Islam and Catholicism take root in deprived areas of the world where people wouldn't have the time to consider Discordianism, but it isn't because religion is any more "efficient," it's because Discordianism lacks what people think a religion should have -- clearcut directives. Without that, then it isn't religion -- it isn't even philosophy.
So then we are left with part of our answer: Discordianism isn't a religion. So, is it a joke then?
I submit that it is a joke, but it is a joke that's all punchline, which means that the way you live in, interact in, and view the world is all part of the punchline. Every set-up to a punchline is its own punchline. This is what people miss about the BIP. They think it means you're never getting anywhere; in reality it means you're already there and you're trying to stay there, of course by "staying" i mean getting out.
***
Looking forward from the BIP, I think it's important that there is an attack on this most basic human flaw when it comes to internalizing abstract concepts. It isn't enough that we blow the lid off illusion and delusion. People love to have a delusion destroyed, as long as you offer them another delusion to replace it with.
Stay tuned.
In the next day or two I will have to write:
Discordianism: Totally a real religion (not some joke)
New mode of attack:
We've seen the LOL23 shit that makes no sense.
Now we compile a serious-sounding diatribe about something full of essays that all sound equally authoritative and all present mutually exclusive arguments, and market it as a single work.
Discordianism is Masturbation on the masses.
nice writings vex
at first, going from the title and mention of BIP in the beginning, i was expecting you to say something like NOT A JOKE, the BIP clearly demonstrates we're a cultlike religion!!
fortunately it turned out better than that :)
So just a question ... the "Age Old Question" is about Discordianism being a religion, but then you discuss the acceptance of the BIP booklet. Well, written piece, but I'm a little confused on the topic.
isn't this really like a sub-cult to Discordianism? Like the Lutherans? or LDS crowd? Are you discussing Discordianism or BIPism? Or do you see them as one and the same?
Maybe a new name is in order, like the BIPpers ... or BIP Discos ... ya know, something with pazzaz
Quote from: Forteetu on July 05, 2007, 01:26:51 PM
So just a question ... the "Age Old Question" is about Discordianism being a religion, but then you discuss the acceptance of the BIP booklet. Well, written piece, but I'm a little confused on the topic.
isn't this really like a sub-cult to Discordianism? Like the Lutherans? or LDS crowd? Are you discussing Discordianism or BIPism? Or do you see them as one and the same?
Maybe a new name is in order, like the BIPpers ... or BIP Discos ... ya know, something with pazzaz
For the purpose of the OP, I was treating the BIP as a microcosm of Discordianism in general.
Actually I think it isn't a sub-cult, it's the R&D Department.
Quote from: vexati0n on July 05, 2007, 01:33:29 PM
For the purpose of the OP, I was treating the BIP as a microcosm of Discordianism in general.
Actually I think it isn't a sub-cult, it's the R&D Department.
I agree. I like that idea--we are the R&D department of Discordianism! 8)
well when we're done deconstructing
and all this is all said and done (*cough*)
I still want a good laugh
and a Goddess to worship
and I don't care if it don't make sense
Quote from: Darth Cupcake on July 05, 2007, 02:51:41 PM
Quote from: vexati0n on July 05, 2007, 01:33:29 PM
For the purpose of the OP, I was treating the BIP as a microcosm of Discordianism in general.
Actually I think it isn't a sub-cult, it's the R&D Department.
I agree. I like that idea--we are the R&D department of Discordianism! 8)
If that's true, I want a raise.
Quote from: LMNO on July 05, 2007, 03:06:24 PM
Quote from: Darth Cupcake on July 05, 2007, 02:51:41 PM
Quote from: vexati0n on July 05, 2007, 01:33:29 PM
For the purpose of the OP, I was treating the BIP as a microcosm of Discordianism in general.
Actually I think it isn't a sub-cult, it's the R&D Department.
I agree. I like that idea--we are the R&D department of Discordianism! 8)
If that's true, I want a raise.
Sorry, I'm afraid Discordianism doesn't have a very big budget.
We get LOADS of vacation time, though!
That's because we don't have the $30 cover charge like the Subgenii do.
we should R&D a good reason to have a $40 cover charge, just to show those useless subgenii who's boss.
Quote from: vexati0n on July 05, 2007, 04:45:18 PM
we should R&D a specious reason to have a $40 cover charge, just to show those useless subgenii who's boss.
Fixed
Quote from: vexati0n on July 05, 2007, 04:45:18 PM
we should R&D a good reason to have a $40 cover charge, just to show those useless subgenii who's boss.
Well, if we were to do that Meme-Boobs thing it could be the free gift with membership.
The PD.Com 2008 Swimsuit Calendar? :lulz:
Works for me. Of course, if you want male members you'll have to count me out. RWHN does not wear swimsuits.
Quote from: Professor Cramulus on July 05, 2007, 03:02:09 PM
well when we're done deconstructing
and all this is all said and done (*cough*)
I still want a good laugh
and a Goddess to worship
and I don't care if it don't make sense
agreed ... a mythology, however comical is essential
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on July 05, 2007, 05:00:28 PM
Works for me. Of course, if you want male members you'll have to count me out. RWHN does not wear swimsuits.
RWHN only skinny dips? :eek:
You're supposed to be a positive role model for your daughter!
Quote from: Darth Cupcake on July 05, 2007, 05:37:05 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on July 05, 2007, 05:00:28 PM
Works for me. Of course, if you want male members you'll have to count me out. RWHN does not wear swimsuits.
RWHN only skinny dips? :eek:
You're supposed to be a positive role model for your daughter!
:lol:
Naw, I'm just not keen on swimming or the beach scene.
But instead of pd.com members, perhaps we could find some sexy snapshots of Thornley, Hill, etc. to put on the calendar. :D
If we can't find them, they can be WOMPed. :evil:
Hmm, I wonder if their faces are kopyleft too.
Does anyone REALLY know what they look like?
Does anyone REALLY care?
We're a creative lot. Copy and paste is a creative tool. I'm sure we can come up with something... :mrgreen:
Even if it means captions under their bonces, telling everyone else what their names are.
Face forward soldiers! Pixels at the ready!
Quote from: Darth Cupcake on July 05, 2007, 08:16:41 PM
Does anyone REALLY know what they look like?
Does anyone REALLY care?
We're a creative lot. Copy and paste is a creative tool. I'm sure we can come up with something... :mrgreen:
Here's an old one of Thornley showing what a Mad Hatter he was:
(http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/d/d1/225px-Kerry_thornley.jpg)
In The Prankster and the Conspiracy, there's a picture of Thornley, buck naked, apparently grinding his pelvis into the back of a chair. The caption reads "Kerry had love for all things -- even chairs."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFdz7cSKLr8
Quote from: hunter s.durden on July 03, 2007, 08:22:00 PM
Stay tuned.
In the next day or two I will have to write:
Discordianism: Totally a real religion (not some joke)
Discordianism is in fact a religion. As defined by www.dictionary.com, a religion is a ,Äúset of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.,Äù The Principia Discordia, the so called ,ÄúBible,Äù of Discordianism, expresses the mythology, the framework of reality and the daily life guidance for both moral guidance and ritual observance to such an extent that it not only meets the criteria of religion; it surpasses these simple measures and stands alone as the foremost, fundamentally accurate religion in existence.
First, as to the nature of the universe and it,Äôs origins Discordianism revitalizes Eris as the patron deity of the movement thus tying in the supernatural ineffability of existence. A mythology is developed which is used as a familial analogy to the interaction of chaos and order and bringing ,Äúbirth,Äù or ,Äúcreation,Äù into a framework telling the tales of immortals in the reality framework of their mortal creations. The cause of the universe is also explained through Discordian concepts of Metaphysics giving both rise to the deity of the religion and the fundamental nature of the universe. In this sense, Discordiansism takes the same steps to create the devotee,Äôs reality tunnel as do the other ,Äúmajor religions,Äù. In Judeo-Christian beliefs, the universe is created thru an act of God,Äôs Love. In Buddhism, the physical universe is created as the necessary means to enable the illusion of separation. Christianity teaches peace and service as a means to reach God in his universe of love. Buddhism teaches calm and unity in the search to surpass the illusion of separation and join with god. Discordianism expresses the creation of the universe as an ,ÄúAct of Happenstance,Äù which results in the dynamic, interactive dance of existence and non-existence as well as chaos and order. More important than simply defining the reality tunnel in which the devotee is to perceive the universe, it lays the foundation for what could possibly be the single most underlying teaching of Discordianism. As written in the Gospel according to Fred, ,ÄúAnd, behold, thusly was the Law formulated: Imposition of Order = escalation of Disorder!" What better way is there to stand in the face of order, but to laugh in its face? In this way Discordianism not only teaches the origins and nature of the universe, but teaches that it is not service, it is not unity, but it is laughter which is the proper path to the all mighty deity.
An answer to the purpose of life is provided very clearly and openly in the story of Zarthud,Äôs Enlightenment. There simply is no grand purpose in life. Although this may be outside of the ,Äúnorm,Äù of standard religions, it is not unheard of and it is well supported as a construct of the Discoridan reality tunnel in view of the creation mythology.
When it comes to issues of life guidance, moral codes, devotional and ritual observances, the Principia Discordia has many examples. Life guidance is offered in sections such as the Parable of the Bitter Tea, the Sermon on Ethics and Love, several quotes from the Book of Advise as well as the obvious Pentabarf. Observances such as the partaking of a hotdog on a Friday, the seasonal holidays of the 5 Apostles and even the Turkey Curse give direct instruction to the devotee on what actions should be taken to show proper adherence to the religious precepts. The fact that the Principia Discordia contradicts itself by outlining these observances and then demanding that nothing is mandatory, should not be viewed in a negative light. Again in this measure, Discordianism stands shoulder to shoulder with its sibling religions. I defy any reader to produce a theological core document that is not self contradictory. Rather than being an example of why Discordianism is not a really, real religion, this contradictory nature of the Principia Discordia should be one more large tick mark in the YES column.
I say Discordianism is a really, real religion and through its doctrine of absurdity and laughter it stands head and shoulders above the rest in developing a universal outlook and set of moral guides which result in a more enjoyable life experience for the devotee.
Meh, this is long enough already ,Ķ.
That is all
Quote from: hunter s.durden on July 03, 2007, 08:22:00 PM
Stay tuned.
In the next day or two I will have to write:
Discordianism: Totally a real religion (not some joke)
.... or I'll use the mind control lazerz to make someone else do it.
Quote from: hunter s.durden on July 06, 2007, 02:48:37 PM
Quote from: hunter s.durden on July 03, 2007, 08:22:00 PM
Stay tuned.
In the next day or two I will have to write:
Discordianism: Totally a real religion (not some joke)
.... or I'll use the mind control lazerz to make someone else do it.
GET TO WORK n00b!
//
(http://unixbeard.net/~richardc/talks/dea/mind_control.gif)
I don't think discordianism is a religion, i would say that is a trick, like zen.
All religions are a trick.
I think debating whether Discordia is a religion or a joke
is totally missing the point
it's like asking if the Daily Show is serious.
Semantics is never missing the point.
It wasn't about actually debating whether Discordianism is a really, real religion or just a bad joke.
It is about debating both sides of an issue, any issue. This one seemed to present itself in an opportune way. If one holds fast to the philosophy that all things are in some way true and in some way false, then that same person should be able to deftly debate both sides of a fence, only choosing to actually believe one way or the other when there is some value to be gained from it.
What value is there to be had from BELIEVING that Discordianism is or is not a ___________ ?