we hold a constitutional convention!
write a Discordian constitution.. and produce a final document that would under more perfect circumstances be the legally binding contract between a government and its citizens.
this process could bring new discussions regarding human behaviors, etc. like the BIP. and it could also result in the generation of new propaganda.
format: whatever. words, probably, will be involved. but unlike the tired formats of the 18th century i propose pictures also. finding a way to make a picture legally binding could be fun.
feel free to ignore/insult this idea since it's just something i posted without thinking too much about.
doesn't all sorts of stuff like--say--the very foundations of discordia point with big flashing neon arrows that such a thing will NEVAR work??
hell i'd be putting in bullshit rules just for the sake of if you (we) (anybody) actually might pull it off
and even maybe more seriously, if we're gonna do this from start, begin by defining the parties, what is a "govenment and its citizens" .. because looking at the current day "government and its citizens" as the basis of such an important undertaking is probably a badwrong idea, and to do it right from the start
Game Rules
1. The player must pretend to take the rules and structure of the game seriously.
2. The player must forget that he or she is only pretending.
This is your copy of the agreement you made when you elected to live in this world. Don't forget to take it seriously.
[from A Handful of Zen by Camden Benares // via the Self Liberators Digest (http://www.maths.qmul.ac.uk/~ade/sld/sld1.html)]
Are we going to have a rousing preamble?
More likely arousing preamble.
The Discordian constitution will be NSFW. :lol:
The Discordian Constitution
Make it up as you go along.
The End.
John Cock and Repost
I think if we leave the discordianism aspect out of it and treat it as a BIP-influenced "New Magna Carta"-style project, it'd be worth a shot. I think the BIP is an easier sell to most people if you separate it from discordianism a bit in the propaganda. After all, the URL to this site is in any BIP pamphlets, so people that are interested in that aspect of it will probably find their way here eventually anyway.
Discordianism is not a solution for the masses... it might work for individuals, depending on the individual, their reality tunnel and their interest in new ideas.
When MEN are free then Mankind will be free.
you're missing the point.
my intention is not to create a constitution that's ever going to be used or enacted or even obeyed by the people who create it. it's to spur some good debate on the nature of society and how, theoretically, humans might create processes and forces to shape society into something better than it is.
Quote from: vexati0n on July 09, 2007, 05:51:52 AM
we hold a constitutional convention!
write a Discordian constitution.. and produce a final document that would under more perfect circumstances be the legally binding contract between a government and its citizens.
Great. I get to write the blowjob amendments.
Now, if anyone else needs me to solve the world's problems, I'll be in the tub.
Quote from: vexati0n on July 09, 2007, 11:50:13 PM
you're missing the point.
my intention is not to create a constitution that's ever going to be used or enacted or even obeyed by the people who create it. it's to spur some good debate on the nature of society and how, theoretically, humans might create processes and forces to shape society into something better than it is.
But, why would a Discordian based society be better than what we've got? I don't think most citizens would like it very much.
sorry. i said "discordian constitution" and you thought i meant to use the PD like the actual framers of the actual constitution used the Enlightenment. what i meant was it would be written by discordians.
mainly, debated by discordians.
besides: where is the rule that said anything a discordian thinks up has to conform to the laws of Discordia(TM)?
apparently this is, like i said in the OP, a bad idea that's better off ignored.
an amaranthine task
would be funny if you taped it and watched it back on fast forward
reminder: one of the original intents of the BIP project was to find a way to sell "discordian" concepts to the masses WITHOUT using explicitly discordian memes.
I think it's a good idea. If nothing else, it'd be fun.
i don't think it's a bad idea.
Quote from: vexati0n on July 10, 2007, 05:22:21 AM
sorry. i said "discordian constitution" and you thought i meant to use the PD like the actual framers of the actual constitution used the Enlightenment. what i meant was it would be written by discordians.
mainly, debated by discordians.
besides: where is the rule that said anything a discordian thinks up has to conform to the laws of Discordia(TM)?
apparently this is, like i said in the OP, a bad idea that's better off ignored.
Well, I think I was confused by your original post (anything based on Discordianism should probably not be legally binding ;-) ).
So a form of government as debated by Discordians then? That may be fun.
Yeah. Basically saying, yeah we can point out the bullshit but could we deliver the remedy?
So where to start? I think defining the difference between 'people' and 'government' is a good start, but 'the people' is self-explanatory and 'government' is the set of processes by which they govern themselves (or not).
any action by any person where the motive is to CONTROL something/someone rather than to WORK WITH something/someone should be dealt with by the most severe penalty
to have a 'government' which is composed of a segment of 'the people' suggests that there is a segment of 'the people' which is unable to govern self
if i am unable to govern myself - i would hope that somebody would kill me
if i am able to govern myself - then i want access to a chunk of fertile soil and to be left the fuck alone
I'll start by proposing mandatory education until the age of 25.
Quote from: LMNO on July 11, 2007, 12:52:29 PM
I'll start by proposing mandatory execution over the age of 25.
fixdidit
(http://www.boingboing.net/logan.jpg)
Perhaps you will renew in the fiery ritual of PD.com...
LHX - Succinctly put. I agree. People call me over-analytic and far less charitable things when I point that out, particularly because once you take that idea and accept it, you can spread it to many other concepts/happenings (not unlike Fanon's colonial theory!). I do quite agree with you, though.
Quote from: LMNO on July 11, 2007, 12:52:29 PM
I'll start by proposing mandatory education until the age of 250.
Quote from: Forteetu on July 11, 2007, 12:54:38 PM
Quote from: LMNO on July 11, 2007, 12:52:29 PM
I'll start by proposing mandatory execution over the age of 25.
fixdidit
Logan's Run (http://imdb.com/title/tt0074812/)?
Quote from: LHX on July 11, 2007, 02:32:37 AM
if i am unable to govern myself - i would hope that somebody would kill me
if i am able to govern myself - then i want access to a chunk of fertile soil and to be left the fuck alone
Not everyone is that reasonable. Some people refuse to govern themselves, and some people refuse to limit their government to themselves. There are other factors as well that require "governmental" action faster than any deliberative body can be expected to act. That is the basis of the need for an executive branch of government - law enforcement, etc.
Quote from: keeper entropic on July 11, 2007, 10:11:59 PM
Quote from: Forteetu on July 11, 2007, 12:54:38 PM
Quote from: LMNO on July 11, 2007, 12:52:29 PM
I'll start by proposing mandatory execution over the age of 25.
fixdidit
Logan's Run (http://imdb.com/title/tt0074812/)?
DING! DING! DING!
You win a ....
(http://www.marklansdown.com/pinbacks/images/ebay-mm-rko.jpg)
Quote from: Forteetu on July 12, 2007, 12:23:14 AM
Quote from: keeper entropic on July 11, 2007, 10:11:59 PM
Quote from: Forteetu on July 11, 2007, 12:54:38 PM
Quote from: LMNO on July 11, 2007, 12:52:29 PM
I'll start by proposing mandatory execution over the age of 25.
fixdidit
Logan's Run (http://imdb.com/title/tt0074812/)?
DING! DING! DING!
You win a ....
(http://www.marklansdown.com/pinbacks/images/ebay-mm-rko.jpg)
Quote from: LMNO on July 11, 2007, 12:58:25 PM
(http://www.boingboing.net/logan.jpg)
Fuck... Am I the only one who understood what that is?
quite possibly
i have no idea
Is it the early incarnation of the Staples Easy Button?
Quote from: vexati0n on July 11, 2007, 11:35:45 PM
Quote from: LHX on July 11, 2007, 02:32:37 AM
if i am unable to govern myself - i would hope that somebody would kill me
if i am able to govern myself - then i want access to a chunk of fertile soil and to be left the fuck alone
Not everyone is that reasonable. Some people refuse to govern themselves, and some people refuse to limit their government to themselves. There are other factors as well that require "governmental" action faster than any deliberative body can be expected to act. That is the basis of the need for an executive branch of government - law enforcement, etc.
heh you know the governmental structure of the "Enlightened Dictator" ? which would be a perfect government,
given that the dictator is "enlightened" enough. which is a completely fictional / academic / hypothetical situation of course and could never really happen because no human exists that is smart/enlightened enough.
now, you can actually take this structure one step further, and do completely without a dictator. because since we're talking a hypothetical / academic idea here, why not aim for the ungovernmental structure of:
"The Enlightened People"
simply said, it's the ultimate hippie pipe dream "what if everybody would be nice to eachother", or a little less stoopid, "what if everybody instinctively did the right thing" ..
hey once we're dreaming, how about
The Enlightened Reality
wherein, everybody is just doing their thing just like we do now, only by the improbably possibility of
pure chance everything just happens to turn out for the best.
Quote from: LMNO on July 12, 2007, 01:13:23 PM
Quote from: LMNO on July 11, 2007, 12:58:25 PM
(http://www.boingboing.net/logan.jpg)
Fuck... Am I the only one who understood what that is?
AHEM
Quote from: Darth Cupcake on July 11, 2007, 02:10:50 PM
Perhaps you will renew in the fiery ritual of PD.com...
RE-NEW
RE-NEW
RE-NEW
LMNO - I too have actually SEEN Logan's Run, so I got the reference :mrgreen:
::whew::
Quote from: LMNO on July 12, 2007, 01:13:23 PM
Quote from: Forteetu on July 12, 2007, 12:23:14 AM
Quote from: keeper entropic on July 11, 2007, 10:11:59 PM
Quote from: Forteetu on July 11, 2007, 12:54:38 PM
Quote from: LMNO on July 11, 2007, 12:52:29 PM
I'll start by proposing mandatory execution over the age of 25.
fixdidit
Logan's Run (http://imdb.com/title/tt0074812/)?
DING! DING! DING!
You win a ....
<INSERT MICKEY MOUSE BUTTON PIC>
Quote from: LMNO on July 11, 2007, 12:58:25 PM
<INSERT "OH SHIT MY CRYSTAL TURNED RED!" PIC>
Fuck... Am I the only one who understood what that is?
hmmm ... i guess the sublty of "you win the shit prize for having to ask the obvious question after the bloody big pic of the hand was posted" award ... didn't quite work. Will have to re-tune subtle crap humor circuits.
I think you need work on identifying who the author of particular posts actually are...
What?? KE got the Mickey Mouse button for the silly question.
Did you want one to for the hand pic?? I thought it was beautifully posted and needed no more statement from me. A master piece and further explaination would have only ruined the subtly of your astute reference identification.
Apologies, perhaps I should have given you :mittens: ... but alas, I am still n00b to the odd ways of PD.com
so
whats the story behind the hand and the ruby?
You have to be a Level 3 user to gain access to that information.
so
whats the story behind LMNO withholding information?
who do i have to talk to to go from my level 8 status back down to level 3 status so i can gain access to that information?
(http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb163/wompcabal/sfw/nsfw/NSFWINFO.jpg)
THANKS TO YUO, PD.COM!
(http://www.cwyohba.org/images/geethanks.jpg)
They're remaking it, you know.
A ReRun?
Quote from: vexati0n on July 11, 2007, 11:35:45 PM
Quote from: LHX on July 11, 2007, 02:32:37 AM
if i am unable to govern myself - i would hope that somebody would kill me
if i am able to govern myself - then i want access to a chunk of fertile soil and to be left the fuck alone
Not everyone is that reasonable. Some people refuse to govern themselves, and some people refuse to limit their government to themselves. There are other factors as well that require "governmental" action faster than any deliberative body can be expected to act. That is the basis of the need for an executive branch of government - law enforcement, etc.
what can i say for 'some people'?
some people do some things
maybe something should happen
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on July 12, 2007, 06:55:56 PM
A ReRun?
:lulz:
I'm pretty sure they've run out of ideas. Everything now is a sequel, or a remake, or based on a comic book. Not that there's anything wrong with a comic book movie. Except how they've been making most of them.
Quote from: Forteetu on July 12, 2007, 04:01:52 PM
What?? KE got the Mickey Mouse button for the silly question.
And really I'm just here to prove that 50 posts will never be enough.
Ahem.
http://www.earlham.edu/~peters/nomic.htm
{cocks to repost again sometime later}
this could work as a good format.
i try to get my friends to play this frequently,
but they're all too lethargic to step up.
also, i don't think they actually get it.
the best part about Nomic is that it's a game without rules.
Rules IS the game.
and since an absurd consitution (what else could it be called, if made by any of us?)
is what we're after, then so shall it be.
equally, if you, or one, wanted to make it serious, this would also be
a good way to approach it.
one time, i played it by myself and called it a "Tyrannical Autocracy of One,"
or TAO. heh. (,--not genuine laughter.)
later, i switched to good ol' fashioned masturbation.
a way of life that people can agree upon
there does not seem to be too much difficulty in that
the only time shit gets messed up is when you start dealing with exaggerated fears and feelings of deprivation