Principia Discordia

comments, meme bombs, additions, art, edits, et cetera
all appreciated

visually, layout wise it rocks.  I don't have the time to actually read it yet but I think it looks great.  The only suggestion I'd make is adding the POEE url to the front. 

Looks pretty sweet. I look forward to having my own copy. 8)

i only approve of this because 2 of my pieces were included.

i'm assuming all the content is the same so i didn't read it, just skimmed through it for the meme-bombs and the new layout, which i think is significantly better. it's a lot more appealing than the last version.

Actually I noticed Parable of the Gong is in there and I think I noticed a couple of other new additions as well. 

Yeah I dropped two pieces (forget which ones, but they're mentioned in the Forward Progress thread) and added a bunch. I had to get some of vex's high quality stuff in there.

What I need now:

1 more page of material (350-400 words)
moar images
meme bombs, quotes, and other one-liners. This is where we can inject some humor.

I want the back cover to be business-card sized cut-out ads. This will serve as viral marketing, so anyone who's really hot on these ideas has something to go hand out immediately. Maybe one to go in your wallet to prove you've escaped from at least one cell. Can anyone think of a one or two line meme bomb which summarizes this whole thing?



PROFESSA
CRAMULUS

[self-serving]
A Conclusion is simply where you stopped thinking.
Here's a ticket to get you back on the ride.
[/self-serving]

edit:  and then have the urls on this as well. 

Hey, how editable is that?


Cuz I haven't had a chance to amend the "nature of reality" essay.

Totally editable. I figure this version will change a bit over the next few days, until we're all happy with it. Send any submissions or revisions and I'll cobble them in.

That goes for everyone, by the way.

I haven't had a chance to take a look at this yet (it's VERY busy at work with fiscal year end happening atm) but if you're looking for more BIP material and my "This Morning ... " (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=12128.0) piece hasn't already worked its way in, feel free to toss that in there if it fits with the rest of things.

Nice job Cram!

When I saw you did BIP II, I was about to curse you as a heretic and schismatic  :wink:

Seriously though, good job. Love the 'patent medicine' salesman. That struck me as especially funny, as did the chickens watching tv.

(Small point: SSOOKN is SEMI Secret Order Of Kabbalistic Navigators, not SUPER. Unless you've decided to give us an upgrade.)

That aside, great work. 

ah SEMI secret. Like Semi sweetened chocolate chips - much more palatable than super sweetened.

I've made a bunch of fixes and edits today, including adding some really cool background watermarks to a few pages. TOG - your "This Morning" piece would make a good addition, but it needs to be swapped with something before page 23. I'm absolutely insistent that the Herman Hesse piece remains on page 23, so it's necessary to juggle stuff around that. Any ideas?

I'll upload a new version after I get LMNO's revision of "On The Nature of Reality"

also - do you guys have any commentary on the last page? I was trying to end the book on an uplifting note, to counter the usual critique that it's dark and gloomy and hopeless. I think it might need a little more meat though. Here's the text:

QuoteThis is it. Right now. This is the exact moment.

You're holding it right now in your hands.

It's the moment when human beings begin to communicate with each other again. It's people talking to people, instead of just exchanging small talk and waiting for their opinions to be broadcast at them via mass media.

It's homegrown. It's grassroots. It's do-it-yourself.

In the past, big ideas came from big people with big wallets and big friends.

Then there was a time when big ideas came from big people with loud TV stations and smart marketing teams.

But now we've got this perfectly fluid perfectly free medium, the internet, and it's time to spread something important.

Not just naked women, pithy one-liners, and funny pictures of cats. We're communicating real ideas between real people. And we don't need market forces to moderate it ad tell us what,Äôs cool.

We're living in the digital frontier, the wild west of information.

We're watching the sun rise over humanity starting with you.

And we,Äôve always had word-of-mouth. But now we,Äôre taking it back, clearing the air of memetic pollution.

It,Äôs time to live our lives like they,Äôre an extreme sport. It,Äôs time to actualize the present and live every moment like it,Äôs the only one that matters. It,Äôs a time for new beginnings.

Someone once asked Tim Leary ,ÄúAnd now what?,Äù
He said, simply, ,Äúfind the others.,Äù



This is BY FAR the most exciting point in history to be alive.

Listen; there's a hell of a good universe next door: let's go!
ee cummings

there will be a big shiny key in the watermark behind that passage.
Prison Cell -- Key -- get it?

Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on July 18, 2007, 07:20:55 PM
[self-serving]
A Conclusion is simply where you stopped thinking.
Here's a ticket to get you back on the ride.
[/self-serving]

edit:  and then have the urls on this as well. 

nice!

can anyone find an eye-catching watermark graphic to stick behind that? We can fit like four cards on a sheet, so it's possible to have four different cards

I'm thinking along the lines of
-one that's sort of like a graduation certificate from the BIP
-two that are basically ads for BIP.com
-a pope card

sexy boobies might be useful here.

Quote from: Professor Cramulus on July 18, 2007, 10:01:16 PM

Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on July 18, 2007, 07:20:55 PM
[self-serving]
A Conclusion is simply where you stopped thinking.
Here's a ticket to get you back on the ride.
[/self-serving]

edit:  and then have the urls on this as well. 

nice!

can anyone find an eye-catching watermark graphic to stick behind that? We can fit like four cards on a sheet, so it's possible to have four different cards

I'm thinking along the lines of
-one that's sort of like a graduation certificate from the BIP
-two that are basically ads for BIP.com
-a pope card

sexy boobies might be useful here.

I'll ask my wife but I doubt she'll go along with it.   :wink:

Very, very nice!

Maybe a

                                     Official BIP Guard Card
"This card entitles the bearer to be their own Black Iron Prison Guard.
They can define their own bedtimes, their own mealtimes and their own reality.
The hours are long, the salary is small, but the benefits are great."

Or maybe a Monopoly style "Get Out of BIP Free" Card... instead of Chance across the top we could replace it with "Choice"?

:mittens:

Okay, I'm firing up photoshop...

Great job, Cram.  I'm loving it.

Quote from: synaptyx on July 19, 2007, 03:35:30 PM
:mittens:

Okay, I'm firing up photoshop...

Which card are you working on? Me and the GiMP are cranking away as well ;-)

can one of you shop wizards make me a stamp that says "THINK FOR YOURSELF, SHMUCK"?

feel free to make other stamps and stuff that would look good transparent and behind text. It'll help with that old-timey Discordian tract feel.

Hopefully the Monopoly-style card. Both ideas are great, but the "Get Out of BIP Free" card could EASILY get spread like mad while looking awesome :mrgreen:

Also, Cram - truly amazing. I had a chance to give it a once-over last night and the layout is excellent. As far as squeezing in my "This Morning" piece goes, I need to get a feel for the overall "in page order" flow before I make any recommendations as to where to put it. General consensus was that my addition had an "I-see-the-fnords" feel to it, so I want to make sure that feeling fits where it gets put.

I might take a few minutes this afternoon to rearrange the pages to be in page order (rather than printable layout order) to make that a bit easier - if I do that I'll be sure to post a link for consumption.

Quote from: That One Guy on July 19, 2007, 04:00:14 PMAs far as squeezing in my "This Morning" piece goes, I need to get a feel for the overall "in page order" flow before I make any recommendations as to where to put it. General consensus was that my addition had an "I-see-the-fnords" feel to it, so I want to make sure that feeling fits where it gets put.

My layout theory so far:
Stuff before p 23 - identifying the BIP, helping people escape
P 23 - Herman Hesse quote where the kid realizes he is not himself
Stuff after p 23 - what to do after you've escaped the prison

Content wise, "This Morning" definitely belongs before p23.

Quote
I might take a few minutes this afternoon to rearrange the pages to be in page order (rather than printable layout order) to make that a bit easier - if I do that I'll be sure to post a link for consumption.

don't bust your ass on it yet - this pamphlet is still in edit. I've made easily two dozen changes since that pdf, and more are on the way.

When we have a final version I'll release both a book fold version and a "in the correct order" version.

(http://www.theinvisiblecollege.com/FreeBiP.jpg)

It doesn't take too long to splice it up with the actual "paid for" version of Acrobat I have at work - giving Adobe money gives you all SORTS of bells and whistles, amazingly enough  :mrgreen: Also, I'd be doing it more for myself to see exactly where I'd put the "This Morning" piece in context of the surrounding pieces and I'd be happy to do it a bunch of times per version if needed since it really doesn't take more than like 15 minutes for a quick hack-job.

I'll have a chance to spend some time figuring out placement tonight, so I should have some ideas tomorrow at the latest.

nice, Ratatosk - that's going in right now.

EDIT: keep in mind for any images you're passing me that they'll be printed in B&W.
EDIT2: can you make a card back? and put the bip website on there


TOG: I think your piece could possibly replace "There Is No Conspiracy" which is certainly aimed at Discordians and perhaps not relevant to the BIP idea.

Can you edit it down to like 300-400 words?

(http://www.theinvisiblecollege.com/BiPWarden.jpg)

Yeah, one of those I'm working on^

:)

The more designs to choose from the better Syn ;-)

could you guys also make sure these cards are standard business card size, which I believe is 2" by 3.5"?

that would make this a lot easier - I'm finding this page to be somewhat problematic

I wish MS Word's auto-formatting were a living person so I could track him down and strangle him.


EDIT2: the only way to make these fit on one page neatly will be if they're 1.5 x 2.2.

Czech  it out

(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a95/discordman/BIPCARD.jpg)

Quote from: Professor Cramulus on July 19, 2007, 05:38:34 PM
Czech  it out

(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a95/discordman/BIPCARD.jpg)

W00T!!! Very nice.

Quick Thought for a sidebar (still working on it looking for ideas):

The Rules of A Black Iron Prison

DO NOT Question Authority
DO NOT Question Beliefs
DO NOT Question Ideology
DO NOT Question Perception

Quote from: Ratatosk on July 19, 2007, 06:08:38 PM
Quick Thought for a sidebar (still working on it looking for ideas):

The Rules of A Black Iron Prison

DO NOT Question Authority
DO NOT Question Beliefs
DO NOT Question Ideology
DO NOT Question Perception

I dig this.

But I'd suggest changing it to "The Rules of The Black Iron Prison" because I think giving it the definitive "the" as opposed to the vaguer "a" sounds a bit better/more serious/more powerful.

As silly as it seems, would we give as much credit to "a central intelligence agency" versus "THE central intelligence agency," etc.

I know there's a better way to say this. Does anyone get what I'm saying?

Yeah -

I'd like to push us to get inside our target audience's head.

Someone who is actually reading this pamphlet probably isn't going to be shaken up by the suggestion to question authority.

Likewise there's a piece in there which holds up consumers of Starbucks as an example of people who are still stuck in the BIP. This doesn't sit well with me, because Starbucks is a very common thing to attack for all strains of nonconformists. Frankly, if we were writing a pamphlet for the chronic Starbucks drinker (one who's really into the image of carrying around a cup of Starbucks coffee), we should approach it completely differently.

one of the bars in my BIP is watching the Colbert Report. I happen to LIKE that bar, but I do see it as a bar. It's a ritualistic behavior I engage in which places controls on other behaviors. (for example: I generally won't engage in activities which would occupy my 11:30-12:00 weekday time slot)

There were a few pieces I didn't add into this edit because although they were good, they were aimed at conservatives. "God forbid you be friends with a LIBERAL!" Though the reasoning of the piece was sound, specifically addressing it to that group make it seem to apply less to me.

Cain's piece on the two-man con is a good example of how to get people to think about the problems without attacking them for their bars. After all, those are THEIR bars - we have to make them want to jailbreak, not villainize them for their coffee choices.


Target Audience, people!

Quote from: Professor Cramulus on July 19, 2007, 07:09:45 PM
Yeah -

I'd like to push us to get inside our target audience's head.

Someone who is actually reading this pamphlet probably isn't going to be shaken up by the suggestion to question authority.

Likewise there's a piece in there which holds up consumers of Starbucks as an example of people who are still stuck in the BIP. This doesn't sit well with me, because Starbucks is a very common thing to attack for all strains of nonconformists. Frankly, if we were writing a pamphlet for the chronic Starbucks drinker (one who's really into the image of carrying around a cup of Starbucks coffee), we should approach it completely differently.

one of the bars in my BIP is watching the Colbert Report. I happen to LIKE that bar, but I do see it as a bar. It's a ritualistic behavior I engage in which places controls on other behaviors. (for example: I generally won't engage in activities which would occupy my 11:30-12:00 weekday time slot)

There were a few pieces I didn't add into this edit because although they were good, they were aimed at conservatives. "God forbid you be friends with a LIBERAL!" Though the reasoning of the piece was sound, specifically addressing it to that group make it seem to apply less to me.

Cain's piece on the two-man con is a good example of how to get people to think about the problems without attacking them for their bars. After all, those are THEIR bars - we have to make them want to jailbreak, not villainize them for their coffee choices.


Target Audience, people!

I agree... I mean, even if someone does drink Starbucks, it doesn't necessarily mean that their blind and trapped fools. They may just like Caramel Macchiatos. There exists, I think a tendency to align the Discordian movement with the anti-disestablishment movement. But yet, that seems to have more to do with preexisting memes that Discordians may have picked up, rather than anything to do with She What Done it All or escaping our BiP.

Is the vegan protester (who spends every day protesting meat, fur, the war and whatever protest de jour may appear) any less trapped than the corporate executive (who spends every day in meetings, typing furiously into a Blackberry)? Is the "starving artist" any less trapped in his meme than the happy Christian stay-at-home mom?

Maybe this could be something to elaborate on?

1 i'm gonna rummage my harddisk for some random bits of drawing and stuff that might be useful for pictures. i'd like to license these pictures to the BIP project only and retain intellectual ownership of it otherwise. but that's just a legal word thing, and you don't need to put that in a disclaimer anywhere or anything :)

2 use the sacred chao as watermark, in light grey. i did this for a popecard once and it looks cool. i used the chao image from the "fnord" truetype font, which is full of goody discordian gliffs and stuff. i think you can download the .TTF from poee.co.uk .

2.5 either you do a test print to see for yourself, or you make any watermarks not darker than 15% black! it may seem very light on your monitor, but alread at 20% black, black text will become hard to read.

2.6 dunno what program you're using (did you get indesign from DC?), but you can make text with background images easier to read with the following trick: basically you make three layers: the background image, the text in white, the text in black. now you move the white text half a millimeter to the bottom-right, so it'll appear as a thin white "shadow"/lining over the image. it will make the text better readable on a printer. another option is to set the 'stroke' of the font to white, so the lining appears all around it, but that's not the usual way it's done. i have no idea how to accomplish this in MS Word, btw.

3 get out of BIP free == awesome, but rat (and cram), you need to remove the black background or it will not print properly on a black/white printer. also you must make sure that "Black Iron Prison" is written out, otherwise, if the card gets cut out and spread, nobod will know what BIP stands for.

He is using MS Word. :eek:

I will burn him InDesign to CD if he wants it.

though I'd like InDesign, I have no desire to start this project from scratch. --InDesign can't import the whole MSWord file with no need to reformat, can it?

Can someone help me out and remove the orange background from the Get out of BIP free card? MSPaint is bad at those things and I'm at work.

maybe MS Word has some option where you can give the text a "shadow". you make that shadow very thin and white, and it should work as well.

and no i don't think indesign can do that.

i'll also have a stab at the orange background

just remember to keep the transparency of the watermark backgrounds down to 15% !

ok images from my photobucket:

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g213/05136/double_barstool_action.png -- give it a subscript "the barstool hits the priest and scientist alike"
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g213/05136/85678aedff47da66090a26ec8138e2f1.png -- i forgot what this was actually about, doodled during a philosophy class on metaphysics, something about a man representing a metaphore representing himself, inside-out of his head (?)
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g213/05136/truefalseth.gif -- this is stolen from some website. you should probably print it on one of those cards, so people won't know which side is up.

i have some other drawings on the photobucket, but they're more eyecandy, like this:
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g213/05136/1073ff171802d29069308ac9929b3022.png
if you need more of that, for random images filling up your page and corners with, i got a few more.

now i will actually look through my harddisk where there is more stuff (i've scanned 90% of all my drawings cause i trust harddisks more than i trust paper :) )

(http://img14.imgspot.com/u/07/199/15/BIPCARD.png)

why has WOMP not yet used this, btw:
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g213/05136/paint_icon_yellow.png)

you will want to use this old ancient woodcut:
(http://tx4.us/d/discbw.jpg) (very high resolution version (http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g213/05136/woodcut_universe_Flammarion.png) i dug up somewhere from the dark dusty cellar of the interwebs)

going through my old cartoons now .. they're almost all in dutch ;-)

I want cartoons in Dutch!

I enjoyed listening to and attempting to read things in Dutch when I was in Amsterdam. I saved a lot of flyers, restaurant menus, etc, from my trip there.

Also, languages that are nothing like English are awesome. I enjoy playing Clue in Danish, for example. :lol:

one incomprehensible dutch cartoon for DCUP:
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g213/05136/000_compleetloos.png)

this one might be useful? cause it doesn't have many words and still describes a sort of philosophical statement about people trying to create order in their environment whether they understand it or not:

(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g213/05136/001_whoa.png)

otherwise my cartoons seem to consist mostly of text and a few guys looking at eachother and saying things (which are someitmes not even funny, but that's on purpose, i love to torture my readers with trying to find nonexistant puns) .. either way, if i were to translate them, it might work, but for plain imagery, there's not much there.

I totally dig your style of drawing.

Is it okay if I mail these to my former roomie? She's really into learning languages (last I heard she was working on Icelandic) and I know Dutch was always on her list, so even if she doesn't understand them, I know they'll make her really happy.

sure.

i (FROM HEREON KNOWN AS THE ARTIST) hereby license you (PARTY OF THE FIRST PART) to email one (1) copy of these cartoons to your former roomie (PARTY OF THE SECOND PART).

- 000,
loves a party

this one is stolen from deoxy.org, but really good IMO:

(http://deoxy.org/ct/img/success-story.gif)

I cannot give that one enough :mittens:

Srsly.

the blonde girl actually looks a bit like you, on those pics of past weekend, DC :-) with the glasses too, etc :-)

I really like that, too.

I had a similar conversation with a stripper sunday.

It seems a pretty common conversation for members of this board to have, cause on average we suck slightly less than most people (slightly).

But I think it's presented really, really nicely in that comic. That makes it easily spread-able, as it were.

Welcome to The Black Iron Prison. You can break out anytime you want, but you can never leave.

Quote from: Ratatosk on July 19, 2007, 11:35:31 PM
Welcome to The Black Iron Prison. You can break out anytime you want, but you can never leave.

~~~Payne: Slaps forehead and groans.

Quote from: Payne on July 19, 2007, 11:36:27 PM

Quote from: Ratatosk on July 19, 2007, 11:35:31 PM
Welcome to The Black Iron Prison. You can break out anytime you want, but you can never leave.

~~~Payne: Slaps forehead and groans.

But its a parody and its true... well as true as any of the rest of this shit we're making up ;-)

I didn't say I didn't LIKE it.

It's just that giving yourself a labotomy with your bare hands is more original than giving the worn out mittens.

Or maybe I've heard far too much Hotel California, and this is my conditioned response.

The only version of Hotel California I can even remotely stand at this point is the Gypsy Kings (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufc7Z76ko1Q) one that was used in the Big Lebowski, which is a truly great cover.

As much as I can't stand the song any more, that's a pretty decent "one-sentence meme-bomb" summary of the BIP which can stick in the mind that much more effectively BECAUSE of an overplayed Eagles tune. Just seeing the line makes the song pop into your head, which is a sneaky little "memory association" trick.

Possibly. I think of the NoFX cover, with hammering guitars and trumpet instead of the chorus, but it's the same thing, I suppose.

It works. Thats why I hate it.... :(

I agree with TOG... The Hell Frozen Over and the original are played, but that Spanish version was good.

And while is it a cringe inducing cliche, it is beautifully accurate.

I agree the meme works too, see my above post.

Just, ach! Why must it fit so well?!

Quote from: Payne on July 20, 2007, 03:39:11 AM
I agree the meme works too, see my above post.

Just, ach! Why must it fit so well?!

Because Eris likes it when it hurts...

Thats why I drink. So I have plenty of glass bottles near by to hurt people with.

Quote from: Payne on July 20, 2007, 03:46:49 AM
Thats why I drink. So I have plenty of glass bottles near by to hurt people with.

That's good... there' glass involved with my poison of choice, but I could never hit anyone with my bong.

Well, you could. But it get's expensive after a while.

Ahhh, if I was rich, I'd attack hippies with bongs....

Quote from: Payne on July 20, 2007, 03:50:49 AM
Well, you could. But it get's expensive after a while.

Ahhh, if I was rich, I'd attack hippies with bongs....

Not me, hippies get all sorts of bonuses when it comes to bongs. +5 AC, +5 to Hit (unless it's a bogart).

You don't understand.

If I was rich, I would make it worth EVERYONES while to buy a cache of bangs, and hit hippies with them. Until we subjugate this "Peace And Love And Lack of Personal Hygiene" menace once  and for all.

Quote from: Payne on July 20, 2007, 03:54:56 AM
You don't understand.

If I was rich, I would make it worth EVERYONES while to buy a cache of bangs, and hit hippies with them. Until we subjugate this "Peace And Love And Lack of Personal Hygiene" menace once  and for all.

Well, as long as you're only worried about those kinds of hippies...

One problem at a time, my man, one problem at a time.

I'll see what else I have in the dark corners of my various hard drives that I can throw around.

FTR, you can edit that part about Starbucks to say whatever you want.  "Independent neighborhood coffee shop" or "Denny's" (or anything else) work just as well.

Quote from: Payne on July 20, 2007, 03:46:49 AM
Thats why I drink. So I have plenty of glass bottles near by to hurt people with.

this is false. you drink beer from cans. i've seen the pictahz.

Quote from: triple zero on July 20, 2007, 12:32:14 PM

Quote from: Payne on July 20, 2007, 03:46:49 AM
Thats why I drink. So I have plenty of glass bottles near by to hurt people with.

this is false. you drink beer from cans. i've seen the pictahz.

We get both in scotland, one of the perks of being a civilised nation  8)

I drink BEER from cans. yes. I drink real alcohol from the bottle though.

REAL alcohol. for REALLY REALNESS FOR REAL.

Quote from: Payne on July 19, 2007, 11:50:12 PM
I didn't say I didn't LIKE it.

It's just that giving yourself a labotomy with your bare hands is more original than giving the worn out mittens.

Or maybe I've heard far too much Hotel California, and this is my conditioned response.

I think you all are a little too new, relatively speaking, to realize that this forum actually was called "Hotel California" for a time.  I think that was right before "No Exit"

nice work cram, but could you please also provide a one page per page version?

uhm, i hope the last five words make at least some sense.

So, am I the only one noticing how extremely alienating this is for the average reader, even the average intelligent, thinking, philosphical person? For example, on 24, there's a line about being "on some website, talking about some goddess." Unless you're targeting Discordians, you've instantly made your reader not a part of the experience (or give the impression that what they are reading is not for them, whether it's explicitly stated in their mind or just a tone their thoughts take.) Also, the references to memes are a bit alienating. Not every person knows what the hell a meme is, nor are they willing to figure out some crazy buzzword they read on some cult flyer. The whole language of this is way too close to the average nutjobs, really. Words and references that end up sounding arcane and a constant barrage of motivation and promises of eventual life transformation. I was reading it and I realized that I was, just below the surface of my thoughts, waiting for the part where money is asked for, a book is peddled, or somebody brings up chakras. Or worse, that final page where you find out about some "guru" who's the one and only true way to enlightenment! and giving you just enough license to throw out every idea you read and get on with your life. It's blatantly obvious that we're trying to get people to check our ideas out, and if there's one thing people don't want, it's to be suckered in by a bunch of amateurs.
Even a smart person is just stupid enough to be turned away by this.

Why do you think the PD is such a better recruitment tool than any of the shit we put out? Because it's light on the overt philosophy, and it's not trying to get you to sign up. When it's some jokes, some ideas, and there's not the express goal of getting someone to buy what you're selling, people might just buy it. We're doing a lot of selling, and not creating a product. As it turns out, a sales pitch isn't going to get shit done. If we want people to come, we can't rely on shitty advertisment which is on the same level of the "ART VAN OF ANN ARBOR IS SELLING FOR LOW LOW PRICES! COME AND GET IT! NO MONEY DOWN AND NO PAYMENTS UNTIL JANUARY 2009! ONCE IN A LIFETIME OFFER!" ads as far as effectiveness goes.
Make a product, and make a brand. We get some ideas, we get a book out, and we spread shit like meme bombs, quick slogans, propoganda, and make it so that Discordianism = jailbreak by spreading the meme so much. Don't tell them what they're supposed to think about the product, make it "obvious"!

> So, am I the only one noticing  (...)

well you're not the only one who has voied such concerns, but it's good for stating them anyway.

got any ideas on how to "fix" that current BIPv2 pamphlet without having to completely rewrite it into a v3?

I sort of agree that the references to the website should be taken out or turned into something else (same with references to 'goddess,' although the PD had more of that than this does).  But I like the content.  I don't think it sounds like a sales pitch.  Maybe we could clear that up by modifying the format a little somehow, like taking the most "at you" passages and turning them into a dialogue or something.

But like one piece says, which I agree with, at this point I don't see much point in dressing up what we're saying or trying to angle our way into people's minds somehow.  I don't have much desire to play it cool or try to subvert minds without their knowing it.  IMHO, this edition, like the original, is about speaking to people who already have some of these ideas.  Maybe helping some of them align their own thoughts and misgivings, and directing them here, so that we can begin upgrading the level of discourse.

Unlike the PD, which was a work of random propaganda pushed into the masses and directed at people the authors never had any intention of meeting or talking to, this edition of the BIP is very much looking for discourse and exchange of ideas.  The Internet has already fundamentally changed the nature of Discordianism in that everyone can "stick apart" but still connect.  In my view, forcing the old paradigm of "Everyone 100% for themselves" is just as foolish as limiting your discourse to 23s and Fnords.

Good spot - the line about 'being on this website' is edited out in the most current edit.

After we're all happy with this version I'll release a PDF in readable order and a PDF in printable booklet order. I really hope to be done with all this by Friday this week.

I think that's some really good but broad feedback, Ubermensch. At the moment we're in the phase where we need more specific comments. As far as suggesting changes - if you're feeling bold, I recommend that you get an account on the wiki and edit the parts you're talking about. Bump me about it and I'll make the changes in the manuscript.


CRAMULUS!

Have an account for the wiki, but I don't use it much (though I should get started using it again). I really don't know what actions to take though, because as Vex said, the purpose of this is to establish dialogue, not make another PD. One part of me thinks that perhaps we could scrap the BIP pamphlet entirely and instead focus on the dialogue and nothing else. Deliberately not creating a focal point of thought could very well be just what is necessary to get people talking and thinking, rather than latching onto some stuff written down in a book and ending the thought process there. (And then from there focus on various acts of mindfuckery.) Then there's another part of me that thinks that, as in many things, the middle way is the way to go here. Edit the rants so that they're not in an "at you" style (and even stories which sound obviously like they're intended to get a point across, like the one on page three), but still heavily emphasize that this is just a way to bring up thought, not end the thinking. Perhaps it would be helpful to remove the redundant essays which really don't have any fundamental differences from each other. Like the "there is no conspiracy" rant of TGRR's. It's completely unnecessary, especially if our intended audience is people who already have some concept that something is up. Or "Toxicity". All it does is point out "some people aren't using their brains". It's quite possibly the only common theme running throughout the pamphlet, and it doesn't need reinforcing. I think a good addition to the pamphlet would be an essay with a point that often goes unmade on this forum or contradicts most of the other essays. For example, an essay saying "give up, you're a bunch of chemicals and your own consciousness is just an accidentally created strange loop, so there's no use trying to do anything, especially improve yourself." I've heard similar opinions expressed before, and I'm sure we could find something. Or perhaps something who's major point was to take things slow, let life be, and live a life of least resistance (though that means not resisting your innermost desires, first and foremost, and if a life of fighting the powers that be is your style, go for it.) (I think I'm going to write that one out in a little bit, actually.)

But, if we are able to piece together a brand new, fresh publication after this one, it won't be a focal point.  I think if we could somehow establish a small trickle of publications we'd alleviate that possible problem. 

Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on July 23, 2007, 02:09:18 PMI think if we could somehow establish a small trickle of publications we'd alleviate that possible problem. 

this is the correct motorcycle.

Personally, I think editing and laying these things out is FUN. It's even better when they get distributed. And double better if they come to the website and hash it out with us. And triple better if some minds or cocks get blown in the process.

My buddy gave the BIP pamphlet to some Jehovahs Witnesses yesterday. SCORE.

Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on July 23, 2007, 02:09:18 PM
But, if we are able to piece together a brand new, fresh publication after this one, it won't be a focal point.  I think if we could somehow establish a small trickle of publications we'd alleviate that possible problem. 

But we're just us. Less than 20 assorted weirdos aren't going to pump out nearly enough material to both get the ball rolling and not end up making a "holy book" (or several) of sorts.

it took only two weirdos to make the PD.

also, look at the amount of material we've produced so far. if somebody professional (meaning they'd get paid and be good at what they do) was to collect it all, modify a bit in order to put it in an interesting format, add pictures, mesh everything together we've produced so far, spread the memebombs throughout the book, etc etc etc -- it'd be as big as 23 PDs at the least.

Quote from: triple zero on July 23, 2007, 11:15:20 PM
it took only two weirdos to make the PD.

also, look at the amount of material we've produced so far. if somebody professional (meaning they'd get paid and be good at what they do) was to collect it all, modify a bit in order to put it in an interesting format, add pictures, mesh everything together we've produced so far, spread the memebombs throughout the book, etc etc etc -- it'd be as big as 23 PDs at the least.

The two weirdos that made the PD never intended it to be a published work. They didn't plan it to start a revolution of ideas (or so they claimed... hrmmm) They did it for the hell of it, for the laughs (lulz), because they liked to fuck with people. And then through Kerry and his nutty Hippie connections, through Bob and his counterculture connections... something changed evolved and became what the PD is today. They did not seek the Chao, the Chao was thrust upon them. They did not preach the Words, they were inspired by it and the Words shine through in their inspiration as a message is delivered via a painting. They didn't worry about formatting, presentation, distribution or even next steps. They simply typed up crazy memos and sent them to their friends. They created fake newsletters and mailed them. They played.

I often wonder if that's why there hasn't been a supplement, replacement or sequel  to the PD that has matched it. All the rest, to use Jean Baudrillard's model, were perhaps simulacrum.

*That's not to say that there might not be intentional mind fucking going on...

you sure they didn't intend it?

wasn't there instructions to copy it?

Quote from: triple zero on July 23, 2007, 11:47:54 PM
you sure they didn't intend it?

wasn't there instructions to copy it?

Once PD version 1 appeared... but that was not much more that a collection of preexisting material with a few additions.  Most of their material came as part of playing, not publishing ;-)

Quote from: Ratatosk on July 23, 2007, 11:58:21 PM

Quote from: triple zero on July 23, 2007, 11:47:54 PM
you sure they didn't intend it?

wasn't there instructions to copy it?

Once PD version 1 appeared... but that was not much more that a collection of preexisting material with a few additions.  Most of their material came as part of playing, not publishing ;-)

Foolish padwan! You should know that Discordians are immune to actual history and real facts.

Quote from: The Littlest Ubermensch on July 23, 2007, 11:10:52 PM

Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on July 23, 2007, 02:09:18 PM
But, if we are able to piece together a brand new, fresh publication after this one, it won't be a focal point.  I think if we could somehow establish a small trickle of publications we'd alleviate that possible problem. 

But we're just us. Less than 20 assorted weirdos aren't going to pump out nearly enough material to both get the ball rolling and not end up making a "holy book" (or several) of sorts.

That's why I said "small trickle".  Yeah, it would be challening for us to regularly pump out 30 to 40 page pamphlets.  But, I think maybe one a year is an admirable and doable goal.  We certainly have enough people who are very adept at wordsmithing. 

I'd like to call this thing finished and release the final PDFs

but I'm still waiting for LMNO's revision of reality
and TOG - did you say you wanted to edit your piece? I got the last edit you sent me and it fits in nicely - are you comfortable with it in that form or do you want to put some spin on it?


CRAMULUS

Run with it - I don't have time to deal with any more edits, and if it works that's cool.

http://www.4shared.com/file/20715219/672731b9/bip_booklet2.html (http://www.4shared.com/file/20715219/672731b9/bip_booklet2.html)


final round of feedback necessary so we can dump it into PDF and call it a day.

only specific commentary please
for example: "the comic should be centered"
or "that background needs to be more transparent"
or "replace X with Y"
or "on page XX, add this meme bomb 'this is a meme bomb!'"

no broad comments like: "it should be less condescending" unless you have a specific fix written up

LMNO, still time to get in your revised essay if you can get it by tomorrow.



CRAMULUS

definitely replace X with Y.

Mang had come up with a bunch of things based on IRON.

e.g. Inspiration Requires Original Notions

I noticed one page had a bit of white space.  If we were able to find those I would suggest plopping those in.  Or just the above one.  It was my personal fave anyway. 

Just some thoughts from a noob. 

In regards to the discussion about the flaws of the BIP (around pg.5)
Why not, instead of trying to "fix" the BIP to suite the audience, just fix the audience to suite the BIP.  What I mean is a prequel and well probably a sequel.  I have heard talk of the Lollercaust and something else as originally being a part of something bigger.  Maybe I misread that, but....   With a more "proper" beginning for a wider audience (or to hook more of the desired audience) one could be eased into the BIP after a few pages of something less alienating (i.e. Lollercaust).  Then finish off with some crazy shit that gets them up off their asses and onto the internets to find out more (or something like that). 

When I first read the BIP I enjoyed it but I did notice the negative aspects.  It didn't really bother me because I had already read the PD.  If our audience is mainly people who have never heard of Discordians or RAW, then we should keep that in mind.

Is the purpose of the project to "convert" the audience?  Well regardless the purpose, I would suggest leaving out direct endorsements of the PD until a few pages into the aformentioned trilogy (after the hook is set).  (Maybe leave it out all together and just let people find out on their own, if/when they go looking up info about the Goddess, or fnord, etc.)

maybe [pd.com "You have found clue #3."] somewhere.  Then they get pissed when they type in pd.com and goto netmagic.

Ok, the letters on the screen are fucking with me.  wtf....anyway, just a thought (or 2)

Ok, i finally finished a revision of my essay.   It's here: http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=13488.new#new

and on that note:

TA DA!!!
http://www.4shared.com/file/20974039/5b6374e0/The_Black_Iron_Prison.html (http://www.4shared.com/file/20974039/5b6374e0/The_Black_Iron_Prison.html)
I would call this "finished".

I'm not sure how to dump this into a PDF
can anyone here hook us up?

Doing that now...

http://www.4shared.com/file/20976481/1b4c454e/lollercaust.html

There's a lot of hanging text there.

That is, I think the font size needs to come down.  yr getting a lot of pages that are the last lines of essays, and then nothing else on the page.

agree about the hanging text. how did that happen? it wasn't like that in the word document?

otherwise it looks AWESOME

other thing, i think the watermarks need to be still lighter. maybe i'm used to print on printers with a too dark gamma (or maybe i'm looking at it wrong, cause i haven't worked with print yet from previews on my new-ish LCD monitor)

Yeah - hm, I'm not getting the page spill on my .doc, but I'm getting it in Syn's PDF. I think its because the page frame got changed somehow into that shadowbox thing. When you guys view my .doc, do you see it as a 36 or 52 page document? (should be 36, with no page overflow)

also, why is it called lollercaust.pdf? Lollercaust is a different project/product.


I can scan it into PDF (the printers at work RULE) but it'll be an image scan - so you won't be able to highlight or copy text.

Quote from: triple zero on July 30, 2007, 05:03:24 PM
other thing, i think the watermarks need to be still lighter. maybe i'm used to print on printers with a too dark gamma (or maybe i'm looking at it wrong, cause i haven't worked with print yet from previews on my new-ish LCD monitor)

sure - can you clarify which watermarks?


other last-minute change - in the shuffle my .doc named LMNO's piece "fuurther explorations", but it will be changed to "further". I'll reupload the .doc when the watermarks are fixed.

Quote from: Professor Cramulus on July 30, 2007, 05:08:51 PM
sure - can you clarify which watermarks?

mostly the ones that are not shaded grey photographs but hard black-white logos and texts. so the image of the factory smoke is okay, but most of the others aren't :)
but as i said, you'd need to print it to make sure. i'm only familiar with what shade of grey on my old CRT monitor would produce a too-dark watermark, it might be completely different on this monitor.

apart from that, just go ahead, i don't think the text will become entirely illegible either.

more remarks (to the PDF):

- page 22, the cursive line of text falls into the black margin
- page 24, the smoking factory image watermark spreads over the page shadow thing (that page shadow thing looks really cool, imo)
- true/false image on page 41 obscures part of the text
- not entirely sure if the white-on-dark text will be readable on page 42. maybe if you boldface it. also i'm not entirely sure if the dark image itself won't turn into a dark blotch. (remember we're probably dealing with cheap printers here)
- the key watermark on page 47 probably has too much fine detail and will distract from the letters of the text (again, not sure)

Hey Prof - I took a look at things in order to try doing some more PDF magic with the Pro version at work, and the .doc file I downloaded was 58 pages and contained all the weird formatting and page break issues people seem to be running into with Syn's PDF.

At this point, I'll hold off until all the little edits are in place before going into making a PDF of this. However, it's weird that some things are being seen with and some without the formatting. What version of Word did you use to make this, Prof? If it's the latest version that could be causing some issues as post-Vista Office programs react VERY badly with pre-Vista versions, especially in regards to formatting - I think there's a "Save As" option that allows it to be saved in an older format. If that's not it (I'm running Word 2003) then I don't know off-hand what's causing the weirdness with formatting, but something sure is.

Quote from: synaptyx on July 30, 2007, 04:43:57 PM
http://www.4shared.com/file/20976481/1b4c454e/lollercaust.html

Any other locations? Apparently that domain is blocked at the office...

Quote from: Professor Cramulus on July 30, 2007, 05:06:37 PM
Yeah - hm, I'm not getting the page spill on my .doc, but I'm getting it in Syn's PDF. I think its because the page frame got changed somehow into that shadowbox thing. When you guys view my .doc, do you see it as a 36 or 52 page document? (should be 36, with no page overflow)

also, why is it called lollercaust.pdf? Lollercaust is a different project/product.


I can scan it into PDF (the printers at work RULE) but it'll be an image scan - so you won't be able to highlight or copy text.

I'm getting a whole intertruk of weirdness concerning this file. When I saved the file it came down as "LOLLERCAUST.doc" then I made the .pdf from that. The formatting is a bit odd too. Why 6"x4"? Trying to force that much text per page is going to make a 6"x4" booklet barely readable.

Quote from: That One Guy on July 30, 2007, 06:14:42 PMHey Prof - I took a look at things in order to try doing some more PDF magic with the Pro version at work, and the .doc file I downloaded was 58 pages and contained all the weird formatting and page break issues people seem to be running into with Syn's PDF.

At this point, I'll hold off until all the little edits are in place before going into making a PDF of this. However, it's weird that some things are being seen with and some without the formatting. What version of Word did you use to make this, Prof? If it's the latest version that could be causing some issues as post-Vista Office programs react VERY badly with pre-Vista versions, especially in regards to formatting - I think there's a "Save As" option that allows it to be saved in an older format. If that's not it (I'm running Word 2003) then I don't know off-hand what's causing the weirdness with formatting, but something sure is.

.. and this is why you shouldn't try and do any serious formatting with crappy applications such as MS Word

no offense to you, cram, you did a masterful job with the tools at hand, i'd just like to use this opportunity to bitch at the crappyness of Word compared to .. well mostly anything. (InDesign comes to mind)

In that case, you're up.

SHIT!

nononono i specifically remember passing the Adobe InDesign hot potatoe over to D-Cup

she got it

also, i can only do large layouting projects in team form, at least one other person needs to be present in the room

Quote from: That One Guy on July 30, 2007, 06:14:42 PMWhat version of Word did you use to make this, Prof?

I'm using Word 2003.

Quote from: synaptyx on July 30, 2007, 06:42:27 PMI'm getting a whole intertruk of weirdness concerning this file. When I saved the file it came down as "LOLLERCAUST.doc" then I made the .pdf from that. The formatting is a bit odd too. Why 6"x4"? Trying to force that much text per page is going to make a 6"x4" booklet barely readable.

Yeah I thought so too at first. If I recall correctly, the 6x4 template was installed on work computers for booklet printing. Or I tinkered with an existing template until it looked right. I agree that the pages are a bit crowded, but I tried to strike a balance - without cutting down any of the content (IMO some of these pieces run a bit long for a publication like this), it was either cram the pages full or release a 60 page booklet.

On my printer it looks fine. To me. In fact, I was surprised at how readable it is despite its size.

Quote from: triple zero on July 30, 2007, 07:05:58 PM
.. and this is why you shouldn't try and do any serious formatting with crappy applications such as MS Word

I wholly agree. I wish MS Word's formatting procedures were a human being because then I could track him down and strangle the life out of him.

I cannot describe the constant headache that this formatting engendered.

But here at work, I only have access to crap (hence MS Paint and not GIMP or photoshop).

we should discuss using a common document format for publications.

preferably one that doesn't change much between versions.

of course the only viable candidate is .ODT, which is the native format used by OpenOffice.org.

OpenOffice also lets you save to PDF with no hiccups in the format or layout

pg 5-  "We acknowledge that it would be in everybod(ies) best interest(s)" -

pg 18-  "AM MYSELVES OUR HABITS?"  wtf?  and "It may seem fair(l)y obvious"

pg 20- "Things that you can't notice (that) are right in front of you."

pg 21- "Would it be best to try our best" redundant?

pg 23 masta killa quote cut off at bottom

pg 26 and 27 same problem with text boxes as 23

pg 41- images need transparency

pg 43- "all in jesus(') name" and "fertilising"->fertilizing

pg 44- "an(d), even worse" (top)

pg 47 "market forces to moderate it a(n)d tell us what,Äôs cool" and key image could be lightened

also- :mittens:

"everybodies" is not a word. it's everybody's. "best interest" is grammatically correct, since "everybody's" is singular (it means belonging to each person individually).

"AM MYSELVES OUR HABITS" is intentionally weird.

1. lol, everybodies...it sounded right. :argh!:...

edit: oh the original said "everybody best interests"....which is not correct.  But yes everybodies is also incorrect, should be everybody's and interest not everybody and interests...I assume. 

edit again: The strikethrough is hard to see on the (s) in my previous post.

2. I assumed as much...

and I know what everybody means, smart ass.  No need to be a dick, I am just trying to help.  I assume you don't want it full of typos and grammatical errors.

Quote from: rzasthole on July 30, 2007, 11:22:21 PM
and I know what everybody means, smart ass.  No need to be a dick, I am just trying to help.  I assume you don't want it full of typos and grammatical errors.

But it's so seldom I get to use my vast and superior knowledge of grammar.

lol...  If it is so seldom, then maybe it is not quite as vast and superior as you suspect. 

8.5 x 11 inch format (http://www.4shared.com/file/21049915/5b8099b7/Black_Iron_Prison_July2007_full_page.html) - for ease of reading
booklet format  (http://www.4shared.com/file/21051278/87eaac32/Black_Iron_Prison_July2007_booklet.html)- for ease of distribution
.doc format (http://www.4shared.com/file/21050755/751a1783/The_Black_Iron_Prison_July2007.html) - because all this shit is opensource kopyleft doityourself anyway

:mittens:
JESUSSQUID WILL FUCKING YUO UP!!!11!1!three.

Quote from: Professor Cramulus on July 18, 2007, 06:00:00 PM

The Black Iron Prison (http://www.4shared.com/file/20151763/62c35e01/Black_Iron_Prison_Cram_Edit1.html)
Professor Cramulus edit

presented in PDF format, .doc available

comments, meme bombs, additions, art, edits, et cetera
all appreciated

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Quote from: LMNO on August 28, 2007, 07:10:33 PM

Quote from: Professor Cramulus on July 18, 2007, 06:00:00 PM

The Black Iron Prison (http://www.4shared.com/file/21049915/5b8099b7/Black_Iron_Prison_July2007_full_page.html)
Professor Cramulus edit

presented in PDF format, .doc available

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Good call LMNO. I edited the original link - that file name was for an earlier draft. Been updated since then. Most current copy is in my sig as well, at least until I get distracted by some other project.

Thank you kindly.

Hey Cram finally got round to getting interested in the BIP project again, and I love what you've done to it.

Just want to point out:Page 33- "And we don't need market forces to market it ad tell us its cool"
Ironic spelling mistake there which is why I suppose it could be subconsciously missed.

Also, might you guys consider using some of much much un-appreciated art work that I've put in the bring and brag sections? Very BIP themed from peoples general opinion.

Also since we're quoting timothy leary in this, you might as well ad in my sigs quote as well since it works so well with the theme