Sadly, this idea came to me because of power metal.
Along a similar train of thought as BIP, how about convincing people to "Break Their Chains" before diving immediately into the idea of "Changeable Prisons". It might serve as a good introduction to the idea of freedom in the BIP/Discordian sense, before telling people "Oh wait, you're actually not free. There's no such thing as real freedom, but you can convince yourself that you're free which is much the same thing."
After all, before you can get to the bars of your prison to change them, you're going to have to take off the chains they put you in.
How about a sequal to the BiP too?
Aimed at these people:-
who already understand the idea of changable prisons, and how directly opposing the mainstream doesnt mean anything. But because they have been thinking like this for so long, they have become a bit of a 'pretentious twat' really....
....They no longer listen to other peoples ideas, they just start pulling peoples words apart forgetting that all they are playing is 'word games' instead of looking to the meaning in something. They never look at something properly, never search for any meaning of an individual because they think they know it all.
Basically you-are-a-'discordian'-and-your-mind-has-now-closed-type-people
Quote from: Politician168023 on April 21, 2008, 12:46:32 PM
How about a sequal to the BiP too?
Aimed at these people:-
who already understand the idea of changable prisons, and how directly opposing the mainstream doesnt mean anything. But because they have been thinking like this for so long, they have become a bit of a 'pretentious twat' really....
....They no longer listen to other peoples ideas, they just start pulling peoples words apart forgetting that all they are playing is 'word games' instead of looking to the meaning in something. They never look at something properly, never search for any meaning of an individual because they think they know it all.
Basically you-are-a-'discordian'-and-your-mind-has-now-closed-type-people
If you have something to say, say it.
Don't dance around the issue.
I'm not intending to dance around the issue.... its called brainstorming - havnt quite formulated a plan yet - just tossing an idea in the air as I liked the idea that TheStripèdOne posted.
Quote from: Politician168023 on April 21, 2008, 12:46:32 PMall they are playing is 'word games' instead of looking to the meaning in something
But... but... I
like word games. :sad:
I think the main problem with the "I'm a discordian and that means I know everything" people is that even with a sequel they'd just change to "I'm a post-discordian and that means I know everything". FLIEGENDE KINDERSCHEISSE! etc. :argh!:
My brain is gibberish right now.
Quote from: TheStripèdOne on April 21, 2008, 06:45:49 PM
Quote from: Politician168023 on April 21, 2008, 12:46:32 PMall they are playing is 'word games' instead of looking to the meaning in something
But... but... I like word games. :sad:
I think the main problem with the "I'm a discordian and that means I know everything" people is that even with a sequel they'd just change to "I'm a post-discordian and that means I know everything". FLIEGENDE KINDERSCHEISSE! etc. :argh!:
My brain is gibberish right now.
I agree... no matter how any of us draw a map... lots of people will still look at it and say "OK, I'll believe that IS True". Discordianism, in my view is something that you can grok or not grok... the metaphors can only provide so much help. The heaviest burden lies, I think in the mind of the individual.
Quote from: TheStripèdOne on April 21, 2008, 06:45:49 PM
Quote from: Politician168023 on April 21, 2008, 12:46:32 PMall they are playing is 'word games' instead of looking to the meaning in something
But... but... I like word games. :sad:
I think the main problem with the "I'm a discordian and that means I know everything" people is that even with a sequel they'd just change to "I'm a post-discordian and that means I know everything". FLIEGENDE KINDERSCHEISSE! etc. :argh!:
My brain is gibberish right now.
ROFL!!
:)
I think my point is that 'knowing we dont know everything' is a bit better than thinking we do. This way at least we will be open to other peoples ideas.
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 21, 2008, 07:05:57 PM
Quote from: TheStripèdOne on April 21, 2008, 06:45:49 PM
Quote from: Politician168023 on April 21, 2008, 12:46:32 PMall they are playing is 'word games' instead of looking to the meaning in something
But... but... I like word games. :sad:
I think the main problem with the "I'm a discordian and that means I know everything" people is that even with a sequel they'd just change to "I'm a post-discordian and that means I know everything". FLIEGENDE KINDERSCHEISSE! etc. :argh!:
My brain is gibberish right now.
I agree... no matter how any of us draw a map... lots of people will still look at it and say "OK, I'll believe that IS True". Discordianism, in my view is something that you can grok or not grok... the metaphors can only provide so much help. The heaviest burden lies, I think in the mind of the individual.
Belief is the end of thinking?
Or do you mean temporary belief? Like: (absailer) right now I believe this rope will hold my body weight, because if i dont i will get too frightened to drop..
And if so, then "I appreciate your opinion, but currently I believe XYZ, maybe next week that will all change" would be a nicer way to respond rather than "YOU ARE WRONG (full stop)"
The main problem is that half-enlightenment is worse than full enlightenment.
For example, see the following story from the youth of Hakuin:
QuoteThis state lasted for several days. Then I chanced to hear the sound of the temple bell and I was suddenly transformed. It was as if a sheet of ice had been smashed or a jade tower had fallen with a crash. Suddenly I returned to my senses. I felt then that I had achieved the status of Yen-t'ou, who through the three periods of time encountered not the slightest loss [although he had been murdered by bandits]. All my former doubts vanished as though ice had melted away. In a loud voice I called: "Wonderful, wonderful. There is no cycle of birth and death through which one must pass. There is no enlightenment one must seek. The seventeen hundred koans handed down from the past have not the slightest value whatsoever." My pride soared up like a majestic mountain, my arrogance surged forward like the tide. Smugly I thought to myself: "In the past two or three hundred years no one could have accomplished such a marvelous breakthrough as this."
Shouldering my glorious enlightenment, I set out at once for Shinano. Calling on Master Shoju, I told of my experience and presented him with a verse. The Master, holding my verse up in his left hand, said to me: "This verse is what you have learned from study. Now show me what your intuition has to say," and he held out his right hand.
I replied: "If there were something intuitive that I could show you, I'd vomit it out," and I made a gagging sound.
The Master said: "How do you understand Chao-chou's Mu?"
I replied: "What sort of place does Mu have that one can attach arms and legs to it?"
The Master twisted my nose with his fingers and said: "Here's someplace to attach arms and legs." I was nonplussed and the Master gave a hearty laugh. "You poor hole-dwelling devil!" he cried. I paid him no attention and he continued: "Do you think somehow that you have sufficient understanding?"
I answered: "What do you think is missing?"
Then the Master began to discuss the koan that tells of Nan-ch'uan's death. I clapped my hands over my ears and started out of the room. The Master called after me, "Hey, monk!" and when I turned to him he added: "You poor hole-dwelling devil!" From then on, almost every time he saw me, the Master called me a "poor hole-dwelling devil."
One evening the Master lay cooling himself on the veranda. Again I brought him a verse I had written. "Delusions and fancies," the Master said. I shouted his words back at him in a loud voice, whereupon the Master seized me and rained twenty or thirty blows with his fists on me, and then pushed me off the veranda.
This was on the fourth day of the fifth month after a long spell of rain. I lay stretched out in the mud as though dead, scarcely breathing and almost unconscious. I could not move; meanwhile the Master sat on the veranda roaring with laughter. After a short while I regained consciousness, got up, and bowed to the Master. My body was bathed in perspiration. The Master called out to me in a loud voice: "You poor hole-dwelling devil!"
After I devoted myself to an intense study of the koan on the death of Nan-ch'uan, not pausing to sleep or eat. One day I had an awakening and went to the Master's room to test my understanding, but he would not approve it. All he did was call me a "poor hole-dwelling devil."
I began to think that I had better leave and go somewhere else. One day when I had gone to town to beg for food I encountered a madman who tried to beat me with a broom. Unexpectedly I found that I had penetrated the koan on the death of Nan-ch'uan. Then the other koans that had puzzled me, Su-shan's Memorial Tower and Ta-hui's verse on the Roundness of the Lotus Leaf, fell into place of themselves and I penetrated them all. After I returned to the temple I spoke of the understanding I had gained. The Master neither approved nor denied what I said, but only laughed pleasantly. But from this time on he stopped calling me a "poor hole-dwelling devil."
taken from the second letter on This page (http://www.thezensite.com/ZenTeachings/Translations/HakuinLetter.htm) (do a find for Supplement: Kambun text appended to letter)
Quote from: Politician168023 on April 21, 2008, 12:46:32 PM
How about a sequal to the BiP too?
Aimed at these people:-
who already understand the idea of changable prisons, and how directly opposing the mainstream doesnt mean anything. But because they have been thinking like this for so long, they have become a bit of a 'pretentious twat' really....
....They no longer listen to other peoples ideas, they just start pulling peoples words apart forgetting that all they are playing is 'word games' instead of looking to the meaning in something. They never look at something properly, never search for any meaning of an individual because they think they know it all.
Basically you-are-a-'discordian'-and-your-mind-has-now-closed-type-people
Cf: Barstool Experiment.
Quote from: Politician168023 on April 22, 2008, 10:06:30 AM
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 21, 2008, 07:05:57 PM
Quote from: TheStripèdOne on April 21, 2008, 06:45:49 PM
Quote from: Politician168023 on April 21, 2008, 12:46:32 PMall they are playing is 'word games' instead of looking to the meaning in something
But... but... I like word games. :sad:
I think the main problem with the "I'm a discordian and that means I know everything" people is that even with a sequel they'd just change to "I'm a post-discordian and that means I know everything". FLIEGENDE KINDERSCHEISSE! etc. :argh!:
My brain is gibberish right now.
I agree... no matter how any of us draw a map... lots of people will still look at it and say "OK, I'll believe that IS True". Discordianism, in my view is something that you can grok or not grok... the metaphors can only provide so much help. The heaviest burden lies, I think in the mind of the individual.
Belief is the end of thinking?
Or do you mean temporary belief? Like: (absailer) right now I believe this rope will hold my body weight, because if i dont i will get too frightened to drop..
And if so, then "I appreciate your opinion, but currently I believe XYZ, maybe next week that will all change" would be a nicer way to respond rather than "YOU ARE WRONG (full stop)"
I think it depends heavily on how you define belief. Dogmatic belief vs. tentative belief... belief vs. good idea... etc. Temporary belief, as a tool seems useful. "Today I will believe in Chaos Magic, because I'm gonna do a ritual later. Strong belief or dogmatic belief, if you will, does seem to lead to a distinct lack of thinking, most of the time (Thinker/Prover).
So in short. Some people will read the Principia Discordia and say "Ah! Discordian's Must Eat Hot Dogs on Friday with no Bun. Ah! Discordians Must see 5's. Ah! Discordians must believe in Creative Disorder over Destructive Disorder." Some people will read the BiP and say "Ah! We ARE trapped in a prison. Ah! There IS no real Freedom!" No matter what any of us write, if it is compelling, if the model appears useful... then some people will forget that it is just a model, just a metaphor, just an idea... and instead Believe it to be True. The Pentabarf was a meme that symbolized a concept, just as The Law of Fives was a meme that symbolized a concept... so too is the BiP a meme that symbolizes a concept. Yet, there are Discordians today that BELIEVE the Law of Fives, or the 23 enigma... and someday there may well be Discordians (or post-Discordians or whatever) that read the BiP and believe it, rather than considering it a useful model.
No matter how much effort we put into the model, no matter how much verbage we use to say "Remember, don't eat the menu, ya fuckin Spag!" It seems likely (assuming our stuff ever becomes popular beyond this site) that some people will confuse the model and reality... and stop thinking in the process.
The best we can do, I think, is to build models that are useful, make sure that we don't confuse the model with the reality and hope the Spags that read it aren't gonna put ketchup on it and try to eat it.
There's a lot of really fun stuff out there with model vs reality to try and get around this wall.
I remember reading about a teacher who taught ontology who, taking from the old Tao/Ch'an/Zen stuff, would ask a student what he was holding, and then when they answered "A piece of chalk" would say "Wrong" and throw the chalk at them as the right answer.
Forget the spags - they will always be there, they will always be the majority and they will always do stupid shit. It's a bonus, like the intent of the work may be to help the odd soul come to terms with liberation but, by the same token, hundreds or thousands of idiots taking it as dogma and fighting wars about the colour of the barstool is the icing on the roflcake
Quote from: SillyCybin on April 22, 2008, 07:36:59 PM
Forget the spags - they will always be there, they will always be the majority and they will always do stupid shit. It's a bonus, like the intent of the work may be to help the odd soul come to terms with liberation but, by the same token, hundreds or thousands of idiots taking it as dogma and fighting wars about the colour of the barstool is the icing on the roflcake
Aye Troof.
SRSLY tho, I hear a lot along the lines of "but what if they take that the wrong way" and I'm thinking fuck dilluting our shit for the slow readers. The slow readers are what we should be laughing at, not trying to help
Quote from: SillyCybin on April 22, 2008, 07:42:09 PM
SRSLY tho, I hear a lot along the lines of "but what if they take that the wrong way" and I'm thinking fuck dilluting our shit for the slow readers. The slow readers are what we should be laughing at, not trying to help
Sure... that was my point as well. No matter how we write, people will read what their brains what to read: lies, silliness, troof, truth or TRUTH
I think...
Quote from: SillyCybin on April 22, 2008, 07:42:09 PM
SRSLY tho, I hear a lot along the lines of "but what if they take that the wrong way" and I'm thinking fuck dilluting our shit for the slow readers. The slow readers are what we should be laughing at, not trying to help
I agree and disagree with this on many levels... but does it mean that we would be preeching to the converted if we laughed at people who didnt understand?
If its not 'preeching' thats actually going on then it must just be 'conversation'?
Quote from: Politician168023 on April 22, 2008, 08:03:30 PM
Quote from: SillyCybin on April 22, 2008, 07:42:09 PM
SRSLY tho, I hear a lot along the lines of "but what if they take that the wrong way" and I'm thinking fuck dilluting our shit for the slow readers. The slow readers are what we should be laughing at, not trying to help
I agree and disagree with this on many levels... but does it mean that we would be preeching to the converted if we laughed at people who didnt understand?
If its not 'preeching' thats actually going on then it must just be 'conversation'?
Preaching to the choir is when you are trying to convince somebody of something they already believe.
You would be laughing at the heathens in this case.
Quote from: Politician168023 on April 22, 2008, 08:03:30 PM
Quote from: SillyCybin on April 22, 2008, 07:42:09 PM
SRSLY tho, I hear a lot along the lines of "but what if they take that the wrong way" and I'm thinking fuck dilluting our shit for the slow readers. The slow readers are what we should be laughing at, not trying to help
I agree and disagree with this on many levels... but does it mean that we would be preeching to the converted if we laughed at people who didnt understand?
If its not 'preeching' thats actually going on then it must just be 'conversation'?
That's what the whole discordia trip is for me, conversing with people who are on my wavelength. Sounds cliched but those fuckers are thin on the ground, believe me. However I have no wish to artificially inflate those numbers by enlightening cabbages.
That'd be like cheating
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 22, 2008, 07:24:23 PMSo in short. Some people will read the Principia Discordia and say "Ah! Discordian's Must Eat Hot Dogs on Friday with no Bun. Ah! Discordians Must see 5's. Ah! Discordians must believe in Creative Disorder over Destructive Disorder." Some people will read the BiP and say "Ah! We ARE trapped in a prison. Ah! There IS no real Freedom!" No matter what any of us write, if it is compelling, if the model appears useful... then some people will forget that it is just a model, just a metaphor, just an idea... and instead Believe it to be True. The Pentabarf was a meme that symbolized a concept, just as The Law of Fives was a meme that symbolized a concept... so too is the BiP a meme that symbolizes a concept. Yet, there are Discordians today that BELIEVE the Law of Fives, or the 23 enigma... and someday there may well be Discordians (or post-Discordians or whatever) that read the BiP and believe it, rather than considering it a useful model.
see my little writing three levels of discordia (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=14829.0) (the title should actually say "layers" btw, "levels" gives the wrong idea).
this is one of the reasons why the "awakening" has to be done one by one. you need to engage them in discussion, get feedback, just throwing some writing at them simply
cannot work, even if they don't mistake the menu for the meal, it only really starts to work once you bounce those ideas off of others.
also, on a similar subject, remember our discussion on #discord yesterday? maybe you can post a little summary about what i said on where we (supposedly) scare away n00bs by denouncing the PD :)
partly because it's relevant, and partly because seeing which bits stuck with you show me how clear i stated my arguments.
Bruce Lee had a three levels approach to Kung Fu that I find applicable to many thing.
1. When he first started Kung Fu, a punch was just a punch, and a kick was just a kick. He couldn't see what was so awesome and mystic about these simple movements. He just didn't understand.
2. As he progressed, he saw a punch was not merely a punch, but a chain of movements and complex notions to be studied and pondered. He began to understand.
3. When he became a master, he realized that a punch was just a punch, and a kick was just a kick. It's as simple as that. All that mystic mumbo jumbo surrounding these simple movements was bullshit. He understood.
4. Then someone killed him with the mysterious touch of death and he had less than 60secs to come to the startling realisation that there was more to this punching business than meets the eye :lulz:
Bruce Lee...
say it with me...
was my mom...
Hunter plsplspls - drop the heath ledger shit - I can't take you srsly :argh!:
Quote from: hunter s.durden on April 22, 2008, 08:39:39 PM
Bruce Lee had a three levels approach to Kung Fu that I find applicable to many thing.
1. When he first started Kung Fu, a punch was just a punch, and a kick was just a kick. He couldn't see what was so awesome and mystic about these simple movements. He just didn't understand.
2. As he progressed, he saw a punch was not merely a punch, but a chain of movements and complex notions to be studied and pondered. He began to understand.
3. When he became a master, he realized that a punch was just a punch, and a kick was just a kick. It's as simple as that. All that mystic mumbo jumbo surrounding these simple movements was bullshit. He understood.
Taoist rip-offs! :argh!:
Execpt Taoist monks probably didn't punch people as much. Other than that, replace "punch" with "mountain" and change some words around a bit in the second one and it's straight out of it.
My face will be represented by Heath Ledger until I see The Dark Knight.
Also: probably after.
Quote from: TheStripèdOne on April 22, 2008, 08:44:30 PM
Taoist rip-offs! :argh!:
Execpt Taoist monks probably didn't punch people as much. Other than that, replace "punch" with "mountain" and change some words around a bit in the second one and it's straight out of it.
Bruce was a bit of a Taoist.
I'm a bit of a Taoist.
Quote from: hunter s.durden on April 22, 2008, 08:46:34 PM
Bruce was a bit of a Taoist.
I'm a bit of a Taoist.
So by association and fuzzy logic, you ARE bruce lee, who is also your mother.
Correct.
I am my own mother.
I've never seen a Taoist with so much hate in them.
Quote from: LMNO on April 22, 2008, 08:50:33 PM
I've never seen a Taoist with so much hate in them.
I don't fight the natural hate I have.
Many Non-Taoist repress it into heart disease.
I throw it at you people.
Quote from: triple zero on April 22, 2008, 08:32:02 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 22, 2008, 07:24:23 PMSo in short. Some people will read the Principia Discordia and say "Ah! Discordian's Must Eat Hot Dogs on Friday with no Bun. Ah! Discordians Must see 5's. Ah! Discordians must believe in Creative Disorder over Destructive Disorder." Some people will read the BiP and say "Ah! We ARE trapped in a prison. Ah! There IS no real Freedom!" No matter what any of us write, if it is compelling, if the model appears useful... then some people will forget that it is just a model, just a metaphor, just an idea... and instead Believe it to be True. The Pentabarf was a meme that symbolized a concept, just as The Law of Fives was a meme that symbolized a concept... so too is the BiP a meme that symbolizes a concept. Yet, there are Discordians today that BELIEVE the Law of Fives, or the 23 enigma... and someday there may well be Discordians (or post-Discordians or whatever) that read the BiP and believe it, rather than considering it a useful model.
see my little writing three levels of discordia (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=14829.0) (the title should actually say "layers" btw, "levels" gives the wrong idea).
that damned 3 layered (http://www.freesoft.org/CIE/RFC/1112/3.htm) holy trinity/social structure thing crops up again.. gief 4.567 layers, not to be confusing (would i ever do that eris?) but just for a giggle.
(awaits serious comments about being too 'random', and how this sorta shit isnt intelligent and doesnt help anyone :p)
Quote from: triple zero on April 22, 2008, 08:32:02 PM
this is one of the reasons why the "awakening" has to be done one by one. you need to engage them in discussion, get feedback, just throwing some writing at them simply cannot work, even if they don't mistake the menu for the meal, it only really starts to work once you bounce those ideas off of others.
agree
Quote from: triple zero on April 22, 2008, 08:32:02 PM
also, on a similar subject, remember our discussion on #discord yesterday? maybe you can post a little summary about what i said on where we (supposedly) scare away n00bs by denouncing the PD :)
partly because it's relevant, and partly because seeing which bits stuck with you show me how clear i stated my arguments.
denouncing the pd i would consider a harsh way of putting it, i think locating the pd chronologically seems more accurate.
Edit: jeez wtf is wrong with these smilies anyways that :P is supposed to be a =P
Quote from: hunter s.durden on April 22, 2008, 08:52:13 PM
Quote from: LMNO on April 22, 2008, 08:50:33 PM
I've never seen a Taoist with so much hate in them.
I don't fight the natural hate I have.
Many Non-Taoist repress it into heart disease.
I throw it at you people.
The Tao of Poo? :lol:
Quote from: Politician168023 on April 22, 2008, 08:53:05 PM
(awaits serious comments about being too 'random', and how this sorta shit isnt intelligent and doesnt help anyone :p)
You haven't met me, have you?
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on April 22, 2008, 08:53:15 PM
Quote from: hunter s.durden on April 22, 2008, 08:52:13 PM
Quote from: LMNO on April 22, 2008, 08:50:33 PM
I've never seen a Taoist with so much hate in them.
I don't fight the natural hate I have.
Many Non-Taoist repress it into heart disease.
I throw it at you people.
The Tao of Poo? :lol:
:argh!:
Quote from: hunter s.durden on April 22, 2008, 08:55:49 PM
Quote from: Politician168023 on April 22, 2008, 08:53:05 PM
(awaits serious comments about being too 'random', and how this sorta shit isnt intelligent and doesnt help anyone :p)
You haven't met me, have you?
nope.
i already got told im too random.. and i dont make sense =S
Quote from: Politician168023 on April 22, 2008, 08:57:09 PM
i already got told im too random.. and i dont make sense =S
That would discourage me, too.
Thankfully I have consistent views, never ruffle anyones feathers, and am always nice and helpful to my fellow posters.
Quote from: hunter s.durden on April 22, 2008, 09:02:19 PM
Quote from: Politician168023 on April 22, 2008, 08:57:09 PM
i already got told im too random.. and i dont make sense =S
That would discourage me, too.
Thankfully I have consistent views, never ruffle anyones feathers, and am always nice and helpful to my fellow posters.
bah, im not discouraged (it takes a lot).
people seem inconsistent when you dont know them.
While you're at it, never use sarcasm to convey the message that some n00bs get bent out of shape before they learn our social dynamic, and end up feeling bullied and rejected because of their own unfamiliarity.
Quote from: hunter s.durden on April 22, 2008, 09:19:32 PM
While you're at it, never use sarcasm to convey the message that some n00bs get bent out of shape before they learn our social dynamic, and end up feeling bullied and rejected because of their own unfamiliarity.
shall i use the teacher-pupil metaphor instead?
Quote from: Politician168023 on April 22, 2008, 08:53:05 PM
that damned 3 layered (http://www.freesoft.org/CIE/RFC/1112/3.htm)
:lol:
Quoteholy trinity/social structure thing crops up again.. gief 4.567 layers, not to be confusing (would i ever do that eris?) but just for a giggle.
nah it's just that a lot of things can be subdivided into small numbers.
there's also a lot of dualities and four-divisions, out there.
Quotedenouncing the pd i would consider a harsh way of putting it, i think locating the pd chronologically seems more accurate.
cool, that's one of the things i tried explaining rat.
like how we have better models of mind than the 8 circuit model.
it's kind of like the difference between the darwinian model of evolution and the actual current biological theory about evolution. or freud's theories and current ideas in psychology. or perhaps newtonian physics versus relativity.
On a more serious note:
Quote from: Politician168023 on April 22, 2008, 08:53:05 PM
Edit: jeez wtf is wrong with these smilies anyways that :P is supposed to be a =P
I've often thought the :p looked more like a :D than a :p. I suggest that to remedy this we change it like so:
(http://www.photoshoppix.com/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/normal_marilyn_manson_and_gene_simmons.jpg)
Quote from: TheStripèdOne on April 22, 2008, 10:08:54 PM
On a more serious note:
Quote from: Politician168023 on April 22, 2008, 08:53:05 PM
Edit: jeez wtf is wrong with these smilies anyways that :P is supposed to be a =P
I've often thought the :p looked more like a :D than a :p. I suggest that to remedy this we change it like so:
rofl, agreed.
Quote from: triple zero on April 22, 2008, 09:53:51 PM
Quote from: Politician168023 on April 22, 2008, 08:53:05 PM
that damned 3 layered (http://www.freesoft.org/CIE/RFC/1112/3.htm)
:lol:
Quoteholy trinity/social structure thing crops up again.. gief 4.567 layers, not to be confusing (would i ever do that eris?) but just for a giggle.
nah it's just that a lot of things can be subdivided into small numbers.
there's also a lot of dualities and four-divisions, out there.
Quotedenouncing the pd i would consider a harsh way of putting it, i think locating the pd chronologically seems more accurate.
cool, that's one of the things i tried explaining rat.
like how we have better models of mind than the 8 circuit model.
it's kind of like the difference between the darwinian model of evolution and the actual current biological theory about evolution. or freud's theories and current ideas in psychology. or perhaps newtonian physics versus relativity.
Yep, and I agree with you as far as that goes.
My point then (which I didn't express all that well perhaps), was not particularly that it was wrong to say "the PD is laem and old" (cause it is in some sense), but rather that the forums of principiadiscordia.com will probably attract people interested in ... the Principia Discordia.
To use your example, if we were at physics.org, first year physics students, and high schoolers interested in physics might come in and say "Objects in Motion Remain in Motion Unless Acted Upon by an Equal and Opposite Force"... to which we might reply:
"Old Meme! Heard it before, a thousand times... it wasn't True when Newton said it and it's not True now. You need to understand Quanta, BIOTCH!"
Or if someone came into Evolution.com and said "I just read 'On the Origins of Species' and it was amazing!" to which we would say "Yeah, thats great... now go read something current n00b!"
It's not necessarily bad or wrong or terrible or un-discordian (in some sense it seems pretty damned Discordian)... I'm just constantly surprised that a group which tends to respond less than positively to pinealists would find itself located at the single most obvious pineal drawing URL in existence on the net (except for letstalkpineal.org )
Of course there are newer models, some of those models express things in a better way... but if we hang out at OldMaps.com, it seems silly to get agitated when people come in shouting "Here there be Draygones"
I think maybe that states a bit better what I was blathering about in IRC... maybe?
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 24, 2008, 04:25:27 PM
I'm just constantly surprised that a group which tends to respond less than positively to pinealists would find itself located at the single most obvious pineal drawing URL in existence on the net (except for letstalkpineal.org )
You do see the hilarity in it though, don't you?
Quote from: hunter s.durden on April 24, 2008, 04:28:01 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 24, 2008, 04:25:27 PM
I'm just constantly surprised that a group which tends to respond less than positively to pinealists would find itself located at the single most obvious pineal drawing URL in existence on the net (except for letstalkpineal.org )
You do see the hilarity in it though, don't you?
Yes... but its of a dual nature. I laugh at the n00b and at the people upset that fnord loving n00bs show up at
pd.com...
Sometimes I think when I make an observation it comes off sounding like a judgment. I need to work on that,.
But you also understand, of course, that it's not people coming in talking about PD, it's people coming in and spewing shit about their pineal glands.
I think that the issue that arises is that pinealist are the same fuckers that would ruin any religion or philosophy. Instead of thinking for oneself, it's about glands and apples and goddesses.
Look at Christianity. They have a religion of hope and love, but their version of the pinealist twisted into hate and intolerance. I have no issue with the PD, or people that love, I take issue with blind followers and annoying fuckers.
I'd rather spend time discussing the core of the PD (freethinking) than it's superficial covering (glands and apples).
Quote from: LMNO on April 24, 2008, 04:35:51 PM
But you also understand, of course, that it's not people coming in talking about PD, it's people coming in and spewing shit about their pineal glands.
*sigh*
Yes, but I'm not sure those are mutually exclusive concepts. They remind me of the little Dawkins wannabes, that got inspired by a book, thought it was a movement that spoke to them and only knew enough to come spouting off about teapots circling the sun. There's only so much value there... but if we were at "Goddelusion.com" I wouldn't be surprised when they showed up spouting dawkinlike nonsense. If that sort of shit pissed me off, I'd probably go set up a forum called "FuckDawkins.com" or something ;-)
Quote from: hunter s.durden on April 24, 2008, 04:41:44 PM
I think that the issue that arises is that pinealist are the same fuckers that would ruin any religion or philosophy. Instead of thinking for oneself, it's about glands and apples and goddesses.
Yep, I agree... I don't disagree... I think this is the correct motorcycle. My only comment was that THIS URL would seem to be THE most obvious attractant for such individuals. Which seems either a bit sadistic or masochistic (depending on how much you dislike hearing Pinealists spout off vs. enjoy kicking pinealists in the teeth) ;-)
Quote
Look at Christianity. They have a religion of hope and love, but their version of the pinealist twisted into hate and intolerance.
No, they have a religion based on martyrs, dying gods and poor helpless little humans that need to drink blood in order to make up for being born. There are just some nice, flowery words in some scripture that the hippy christians wish were the basis of the religion ;-)
Quote
I have no issue with the PD, or people that love, I take issue with blind followers and annoying fuckers.
Agree.
Quote
I'd rather spend time discussing the core of the PD (freethinking) than it's superficial covering (glands and apples).
Agree.
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 24, 2008, 04:46:14 PM
No, they have a religion based on martyrs, dying gods and poor helpless little humans that need to drink blood in order to make up for being born. There are just some nice, flowery words in some scripture that the hippy christians wish were the basis of the religion ;-)
To you. The main themes are love and hope to others. You are focused on one facet, not all Christians do that.
NO REDEMPTION WITHOUT BLOOD!
Quote from: hunter s.durden on April 24, 2008, 04:49:57 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 24, 2008, 04:46:14 PM
No, they have a religion based on martyrs, dying gods and poor helpless little humans that need to drink blood in order to make up for being born. There are just some nice, flowery words in some scripture that the hippy christians wish were the basis of the religion ;-)
To you. The main themes are love and hope to others. You are focused on one facet, not all Christians do that.
Some Christians can modify their beliefs to focus only on what they're comfortable with. Their Thinker and Prover doesn't change the system... hell we could make that same argument about Scifags... or even Pinealists.
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 24, 2008, 04:53:54 PM
... hell we could make that same argument about Scifags... or even Pinealists.
And I would, but we were on Christians.
Quote from: hunter s.durden on April 24, 2008, 04:57:10 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 24, 2008, 04:53:54 PM
... hell we could make that same argument about Scifags... or even Pinealists.
And I would, but we were on Christians.
Umm, I'm not sure where we went here... I mean, you said that Christianity was a religion of hope and love, if not for their version of 'pinealists', I disagree. The Christian message is not all that positive, except for the rare quote, and only if we ignore the 10:1 ratio that those quotes have in the book ;-)
If anything I would think the Hope and Love Christians would be more like the pinealists than the fire and brimstone, GOD HATES FAGS, sort.
In that case, perhaps the pinealists/long haired friends of Jesus would improve the religion...
Point understood.
However, taking into account apocrypha vs. cannon, and a freethinker can pick and choose what parts of the bible they want to keep.
Quote from: hunter s.durden on April 24, 2008, 05:06:07 PM
Point understood.
However, taking into account apocrypha vs. cannon, and a freethinker can pick and choose what parts of the bible they want to keep.
Sure... based on whatever criteria that they want. But, then that doesn't seem particularly Christian anymore... more like their own thing that happens to make some use of some Christian myths. Which is fine, if thats what they want to do.
So to bring this back on topic... Imagine some poor sod of a Christian going to "TheBible.com" and finding nothing but free thinking Christians that don't particularly want to talk about the Bible, but rather their own views and ideas which may or may not have some relation to the Bible. Further, they have no use for any Christian that comes in and quotes any of the myriad of scriptures which are neither hopeful nor loving.
It would be an odd place for such people to gather, I think...
and that was really all I was trying to say in IRC, except the conversation wandered around several other topics... including the fact that I note the hostility more, possibly because of the Law of Fives. ;-)
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 24, 2008, 05:14:11 PM
Imagine some poor sod of a Christian going to "TheBible.com" and finding nothing but free thinking Christians that don't particularly want to talk about the Bible, but rather their own views and ideas which may or may not have some relation to the Bible. Further, they have no use for any Christian that comes in and quotes any of the myriad of scriptures which are neither hopeful nor loving.
I've gotta say I like this image.
I think the hostility is in your own perception. Who's being hostile?
Quote from: hunter s.durden on April 24, 2008, 05:17:38 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 24, 2008, 05:14:11 PM
Imagine some poor sod of a Christian going to "TheBible.com" and finding nothing but free thinking Christians that don't particularly want to talk about the Bible, but rather their own views and ideas which may or may not have some relation to the Bible. Further, they have no use for any Christian that comes in and quotes any of the myriad of scriptures which are neither hopeful nor loving.
I've gotta say I like this image.
I like that image as well... but I would think it an odd thing to find at that particular website.
Quote
I think the hostility is in your own perception. Who's being hostile?
I think a lot of it probably is (thus my comment on the Law of Fives). I think (and I mentioned in IRC) that what I perceived as hostility has decreased greatly in the past 6 months or so (or else I'm becoming jaded toward it... dunno). I mean, don't tell anyone, but it looks like Roger is even trying to not kill n00bs at the first utterance of the word fnord :eek:
Perhaps it was related to when I first showed up and the board dynamics at the time... once I saw a pattern it stuck with me, or maybe it was worse and is getting better or maybe I smoke too much pot.
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 24, 2008, 05:34:01 PM
I mean, don't tell anyone, but it looks like Roger is even trying to not kill n00bs at the first utterance of the word fnord :eek:
He has to kill off the morons and the LJ people first.
I'll talk about whatever gland you want, as long as I don't have to listen to people gash on about their failed relationships.
Quote from: hunter s.durden on April 24, 2008, 05:38:54 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 24, 2008, 05:34:01 PM
I mean, don't tell anyone, but it looks like Roger is even trying to not kill n00bs at the first utterance of the word fnord :eek:
He has to kill off the morons and the LJ people first.
I'll talk about whatever gland you want, as long as I don't have to listen to people gash on about their failed relationships.
Yes! In fact, I notice that the Pinealists aren't really the ones getting slapped lately, its been the people that think we're a therapy group, or that we want to hear about what they ate and who they fucked ;-)
Right. That's a good example, not at all specific to any person or situation currently afflicting Apple Talk.
It's all about having the constitution to be here. If you can't take the knocks then you probably don't belong. Discordia is about discord which, plain and simple, gets ugly from time to time. Some noobs take abuse and carry on, some bitch and whine then fuck off with tail between legs. Others don't invite any flaming at all.
I don't see anything wrong with this approach but then I do have slight sociopathic leanings so maybe I'm not the best judge.
Quote from: hunter s.durden on April 24, 2008, 05:45:36 PM
Right. That's a good example, not at all specific to any person or situation currently afflicting Apple Talk.
Nah, if it was specific I would have said "who they ate and what they fucked" :fnord:
Quote from: SillyCybin on April 24, 2008, 05:47:52 PM
It's all about having the constitution to be here. If you can't take the knocks then you probably don't belong. Discordia is about discord which, plain and simple, gets ugly from time to time. Some noobs take abuse and carry on, some bitch and whine then fuck off with tail between legs. Others don't invite any flaming at all.
I don't see anything wrong with this approach but then I do have slight sociopathic leanings so maybe I'm not the best judge.
I have no problem with how things go around here... I was really only commenting that it was odd for those of us that tend to be anti-pineal to hang out at this particular url. But, then the whole discussion went splodey in IRC and etc.
Great discussion here.
I think a lot of the people who come here, whether they be considered pinealists, or defunct aspergers, or whatever, still have more potential than you're average christian fundamentalists. The immediate hateshit that pinealists MAY incur, imho, does nothing for anyone.
It might seem very Taoist to not resist against your hateful feelings when annoyed, but think about that in terms of a spat with your spouse/child/parent/friend... how many times do you lash out at someone and realize that had you sat and thought about it, you might not have been such an asshole? I think detecting WHY there is resistance, and why you're really angry at all is conducive to more interesting interactions in the forum. I mean, I get annoyed and react all the time towards shit I think is stupid... I'm just saying it's a waste of time to throw hateshit at every n00b who walks in the door talking about pineal, or trying to fix their own head. 99% of the people I work with are neo-cons... but you know, they're also some really nice guys, who have a lot of interesting things to talk about.
I personally have no interest in learning to "embrace my hate"... I don't want to resist it either, but speaking from just my own experience, I find that most of the time I find myself angry and resentful, I end up finding out later that I wasn't thinking rationally.
You guys have made some really good points though, and I'm not saying this forum is horribly intolerant. The fact that I'm still here says much to me.
If this was physics.org and someone came in spouting on about newtonian maps, as in rat's example, shouting "Old Meme!" back at them would most likely piss them off. Then they react, and then everyone else reacts to them reacting, and so on... Offering up new models, I think, is the best approach to those stuck on the old. I think, just since I've been here, it's been easier for me to see which maps I've grown defensive of, and encouraged me to look for alternate models. The aha! part of this kicks in when I start seeing new parallels... For example, I knew nothing about Meme's before PD. The more I'm learning about this new map (new to me), the more uncanny the resemblance seems to my old maps, but with all sorts of new twists and turns too.
One last thing I want to add... I also realize there's a satirical brand of hate ever present in the forums, and that I need to lighten up. TGRR acts as ridiculous angry and intolerant as most subgenii I've been exposed to, and I really don't know how I still seem to forget the meaning of "Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke!"
Quote from: daruko on April 24, 2008, 06:12:48 PM
The immediate hateshit that pinealists MAY incur, imho, does nothing for anyone.
I take that back... sometimes it CAN be helpful.
I'd just like to say that cannonballs tend to defeat apocryphal biblical passages 9 times out of 10. The 10th time is a fluke, largely due to the person using the cannon actually reading one of the aforementioned apocryphal pieces and getting all confused by it because most of them are seriously on drugs.
Quote from: daruko on April 24, 2008, 06:12:48 PM
Great discussion here.
I think a lot of the people who come here, whether they be considered pinealists, or defunct aspergers, or whatever, still have more potential than you're average christian fundamentalists. The immediate hateshit that pinealists MAY incur, imho, does nothing for anyone.
It might seem very Taoist to not resist against your hateful feelings when annoyed, but think about that in terms of a spat with your spouse/child/parent/friend... how many times do you lash out at someone and realize that had you sat and thought about it, you might not have been such an asshole? I think detecting WHY there is resistance, and why you're really angry at all is conducive to more interesting interactions in the forum. I mean, I get annoyed and react all the time towards shit I think is stupid... I'm just saying it's a waste of time to throw hateshit at every n00b who walks in the door talking about pineal, or trying to fix their own head. 99% of the people I work with are neo-cons... but you know, they're also some really nice guys, who have a lot of interesting things to talk about.
I personally have no interest in learning to "embrace my hate"... I don't want to resist it either, but speaking from just my own experience, I find that most of the time I find myself angry and resentful, I end up finding out later that I wasn't thinking rationally.
You guys have made some really good points though, and I'm not saying this forum is horribly intolerant. The fact that I'm still here says much to me.
If this was physics.org and someone came in spouting on about newtonian maps, as in rat's example, shouting "Old Meme!" back at them would most likely piss them off. Then they react, and then everyone else reacts to them reacting, and so on... Offering up new models, I think, is the best approach to those stuck on the old. I think, just since I've been here, it's been easier for me to see which maps I've grown defensive of, and encouraged me to look for alternate models. The aha! part of this kicks in when I start seeing new parallels... For example, I knew nothing about Meme's before PD. The more I'm learning about this new map (new to me), the more uncanny the resemblance seems to my old maps, but with all sorts of new twists and turns too.
One last thing I want to add... I also realize there's a satirical brand of hate ever present in the forums, and that I need to lighten up. TGRR acts as ridiculous angry and intolerant as most subgenii I've been exposed to, and I really don't know how I still seem to forget the meaning of "Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke!"
You still don't get it do you? You're down on hate because of primitive conditioning and programming. Bask in the hate. Learn to love the hate. It's the only true emotion left that they can't lock you up for having :argh!:
Hate is the only true catharsis - shit that hate on all who deserve it :argh!:
I think shitting hate all the time gives some people chafing.
Quote from: SillyCybin on April 24, 2008, 06:54:05 PM
Quote from: daruko on April 24, 2008, 06:12:48 PM
Great discussion here.
I think a lot of the people who come here, whether they be considered pinealists, or defunct aspergers, or whatever, still have more potential than you're average christian fundamentalists. The immediate hateshit that pinealists MAY incur, imho, does nothing for anyone.
It might seem very Taoist to not resist against your hateful feelings when annoyed, but think about that in terms of a spat with your spouse/child/parent/friend... how many times do you lash out at someone and realize that had you sat and thought about it, you might not have been such an asshole? I think detecting WHY there is resistance, and why you're really angry at all is conducive to more interesting interactions in the forum. I mean, I get annoyed and react all the time towards shit I think is stupid... I'm just saying it's a waste of time to throw hateshit at every n00b who walks in the door talking about pineal, or trying to fix their own head. 99% of the people I work with are neo-cons... but you know, they're also some really nice guys, who have a lot of interesting things to talk about.
I personally have no interest in learning to "embrace my hate"... I don't want to resist it either, but speaking from just my own experience, I find that most of the time I find myself angry and resentful, I end up finding out later that I wasn't thinking rationally.
You guys have made some really good points though, and I'm not saying this forum is horribly intolerant. The fact that I'm still here says much to me.
If this was physics.org and someone came in spouting on about newtonian maps, as in rat's example, shouting "Old Meme!" back at them would most likely piss them off. Then they react, and then everyone else reacts to them reacting, and so on... Offering up new models, I think, is the best approach to those stuck on the old. I think, just since I've been here, it's been easier for me to see which maps I've grown defensive of, and encouraged me to look for alternate models. The aha! part of this kicks in when I start seeing new parallels... For example, I knew nothing about Meme's before PD. The more I'm learning about this new map (new to me), the more uncanny the resemblance seems to my old maps, but with all sorts of new twists and turns too.
One last thing I want to add... I also realize there's a satirical brand of hate ever present in the forums, and that I need to lighten up. TGRR acts as ridiculous angry and intolerant as most subgenii I've been exposed to, and I really don't know how I still seem to forget the meaning of "Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke!"
You still don't get it do you? You're down on hate because of primitive conditioning and programming. Bask in the hate. Learn to love the hate. It's the only true emotion left that they can't lock you up for having :argh!:
Hate is the only true catharsis - shit that hate on all who deserve it :argh!:
I'm not down on hate, I just really don't run into many situations where hate is the best option... though, occasionally it does fit the moment perfectly.
Quote from: daruko on April 24, 2008, 06:12:48 PM
The immediate hateshit that pinealists MAY incur, imho, does nothing for anyone.
Are you forgetting that many of us consider it FUN, and actually are laughing while we do it?
If we can postulate "horrormirth," there's certainly enough room for "gigglehate".
Quote from: LMNO on April 24, 2008, 07:33:34 PM
Quote from: daruko on April 24, 2008, 06:12:48 PM
The immediate hateshit that pinealists MAY incur, imho, does nothing for anyone.
Are you forgetting that many of us consider it FUN, and actually are laughing while we do it?
If we can postulate "horrormirth," there's certainly enough room for "gigglehate".
No, I realize that, and I partially took that comment back. However, the notion that it's fun is often a ruse for what's really going on. I think people abuse the hell out of the emotion, and sometimes it's legitimate fun, and other times it's just circuit 2 programming. I think if you're too frivolous with it, you'll fail to recognize the difference between when circuit 2 kicks in, and when it's just having fun with words.
Quote from: daruko on April 24, 2008, 07:59:48 PM
Quote from: LMNO on April 24, 2008, 07:33:34 PM
Quote from: daruko on April 24, 2008, 06:12:48 PM
The immediate hateshit that pinealists MAY incur, imho, does nothing for anyone.
Are you forgetting that many of us consider it FUN, and actually are laughing while we do it?
If we can postulate "horrormirth," there's certainly enough room for "gigglehate".
No, I realize that, and I partially took that comment back. However, the notion that it's fun is often a ruse for what's really going on. I think people abuse the hell out of the emotion, and sometimes it's legitimate fun, and other times it's just circuit 2 programming. I think if you're too frivolous with it, you'll fail to recognize the difference between when circuit 2 kicks in, and when it's just having fun with words.
:tinfoilhat:
Quote from: LMNO on April 24, 2008, 08:04:47 PM
Quote from: daruko on April 24, 2008, 07:59:48 PM
Quote from: LMNO on April 24, 2008, 07:33:34 PM
Quote from: daruko on April 24, 2008, 06:12:48 PM
The immediate hateshit that pinealists MAY incur, imho, does nothing for anyone.
Are you forgetting that many of us consider it FUN, and actually are laughing while we do it?
If we can postulate "horrormirth," there's certainly enough room for "gigglehate".
No, I realize that, and I partially took that comment back. However, the notion that it's fun is often a ruse for what's really going on. I think people abuse the hell out of the emotion, and sometimes it's legitimate fun, and other times it's just circuit 2 programming. I think if you're too frivolous with it, you'll fail to recognize the difference between when circuit 2 kicks in, and when it's just having fun with words.
:tinfoilhat:
yeah.. that
was pretty lame.. posting from work when i'm running behind = FAIL
Just answer me this... maybe it's my programming that tells me hateshitting on people is a waste of energy, but what makes you think it's not programming that causes you to enjoy hateshitting on people?
Turn on the tv and watch politics for an hour... that's all they do! Hateshit hateshit hateshit, all day long. Yes, they're trying to fight the "noble cause", and maybe your just getting lulz, but it just seems meaningless either way to me.
Rush Limbaugh gets a mighty big kick out of hateshitting for a living, but he's about the biggest cabbage I've ever seen (unless his act is just a ruse, which is very likely).
Quote from: daruko on April 24, 2008, 06:12:48 PM
I'm just saying it's a waste of time to throw hateshit at every n00b who walks in the door talking about pineal, or trying to fix their own head.
.....................................
OK, I'll quit.
Quote from: hunter s.durden on April 24, 2008, 09:54:21 PM
Quote from: daruko on April 24, 2008, 06:12:48 PM
I'm just saying it's a waste of time to throw hateshit at every n00b who walks in the door talking about pineal, or trying to fix their own head.
.....................................
OK, I'll quit.
:lulz: I bet you will.
Quote from: SillyCybin on April 24, 2008, 06:54:05 PM
You still don't get it do you? You're down on hate because of primitive conditioning and programming. Bask in the hate. Learn to love the hate. It's the only true emotion left that they can't lock you up for having :argh!:
Hate is the only true catharsis - shit that hate on all who deserve it :argh!:
I don't often see anything desirable about focusing my energy in that direction.
When I listen to guys like Rush Limbaugh, it reminds me of the bully in grade school that picked on all the "inferior" "weak" children, because his daddy picked on him.
I might understand, in many cases, that the menu is not the meal, but that just hasn't given me a reason to view those eating the menu as weak, and deserving of hatred. Like I mentioned earlier... I live and work amongst people like that everyday, and many of them are terrific people. They still have meaning in their lives, aside from the fact that they may as well be worshipping a doorknob. They love their children and think of others and so on.
But I also see that a diehard asshole sometimes NEEDS a kick in the head, and I can understand the enjoyment of being the one to do it.
Quote from: daruko on April 24, 2008, 10:29:50 PM
Quote from: SillyCybin on April 24, 2008, 06:54:05 PM
You still don't get it do you? You're down on hate because of primitive conditioning and programming. Bask in the hate. Learn to love the hate. It's the only true emotion left that they can't lock you up for having :argh!:
Hate is the only true catharsis - shit that hate on all who deserve it :argh!:
I don't often see anything desirable about focusing my energy in that direction.
When I listen to guys like Rush Limbaugh, it reminds me of the bully in grade school that picked on all the "inferior" "weak" children, because his daddy picked on him.
I might understand, in many cases, that the menu is not the meal, but that just hasn't given me a reason to view those eating the menu as weak, and deserving of hatred. Like I mentioned earlier... I live and work amongst people like that everyday, and many of them are terrific people. They still have meaning in their lives, aside from the fact that they may as well be worshipping a doorknob. They love their children and think of others and so on.
But I also see that a diehard asshole sometimes NEEDS a kick in the head, and I can understand the enjoyment of being the one to do it.
Well, hell Daraku.... You actually do have a couple snazzy motorcycles in the garage!! ;-)
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 24, 2008, 05:41:49 PMwhat they ate and who they fucked ;-)
Well, http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?board=4.0
Some of that earlier stuff was directed at me, so just for our personal records, can we cite specific examples of where I've been non-jokingly mean to someone that didn't deserve it? I'm a huge dick but I don't actually see where I've been active harmful.
Before you ask, no, I don't care, I'm just curious.
Quote from: Nigel on April 24, 2008, 11:11:36 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 24, 2008, 05:41:49 PMwhat they ate and who they fucked ;-)
Well, http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?board=4.0
Awww... damn it Nigel, why'd you have to go invalidate my statement? :wink:
Maybe we need a "Discordian Love" sub too. :lulz:
Quote from: hunter s.durden on April 24, 2008, 11:46:21 PM
Some of that earlier stuff was directed at me, so just for our personal records, can we cite specific examples of where I've been non-jokingly mean to someone that didn't deserve it? I'm a huge dick but I don't actually see where I've been active harmful.
Before you ask, no, I don't care, I'm just curious.
what was directed at you from who?
i didn't mean anything negative by my comment, "I bet you will." i didn't know quite how you meant "I'll quit."
I don't know whether you've jokingly or non-jokingly been mean. If I've seen it, my memory isn't reliable enough for me to invoke any feeling, especially because I don't know how to take you very well.
Quote from: daruko on April 24, 2008, 06:12:48 PM
It might seem very Taoist to not resist against your hateful feelings when annoyed,
This bit.
Quote from: hunter s.durden on April 22, 2008, 08:52:13 PM
Quote from: LMNO on April 22, 2008, 08:50:33 PM
I've never seen a Taoist with so much hate in them.
I don't fight the natural hate I have.
Many Non-Taoist repress it into heart disease.
I throw it at you people.
this was a joke?
It warms my cockles that you can't tell the difference.
But that does seem to indicate you were talking to me.
To answer the question:
Quote from: daruko on April 25, 2008, 12:02:54 AM
what was directed at you from who?
Quote from: hunter s.durden on April 25, 2008, 12:30:28 AM
It warms my cockles that you can't tell the difference.
But that does seem to indicate you were talking to me.
To answer the question:
Quote from: daruko on April 25, 2008, 12:02:54 AM
what was directed at you from who?
Yeah, I referenced your statement there, that's why I asked. I figured you were talking to me just then, but wasn't sure about what.
I wasn't suggesting anything beyond the idea of what you had said when I made that reference... that is to say, I wasn't saying you were an evil shitbag who spews cold-hearted hateshit at every n00b he see's... I felt there was another way to look at it, if you meant what you were saying. Now I'm seeing that you were probably joking... I wasn't trying to accuse anyone of anything sinister.. I was just interested in the conversation.
Anything accusatory I said, I take back. Can I do that?
...
It warms my cockles that I've warmed your cockles, though.
Quote from: daruko on April 25, 2008, 12:43:31 AM
Anything accusatory I said, I take back. Can I do that?
No.
Sit back and prepare for war.
Quote from: daruko on April 25, 2008, 12:47:16 AM
Quote from: hunter s.durden on April 25, 2008, 12:45:57 AM
Quote from: daruko on April 25, 2008, 12:43:31 AM
Anything accusatory I said, I take back. Can I do that?
No.
Sit back and prepare for war.
ofuk. :neutral:
LOL, its ok... Hunter is full of tough love... or...
well he is full of something or other.
Durk, so what if it's our "programming" that lets us enjoy gigglehate?
I'm not sure I'm understanding why you seem to be ascribing fourth-circuit morality to second-circuit behavior, and why you somehow think that C4 is "better" than C2*.
You say you understand that we are all programmed, and that it's up to each individual to choose their programming, when possible. So why do you feel that yours is so superior?
If you don't want to participate in the gigglehate, then follow the words of Eris: "Oh. Well, then stop."
*Well, if we're talking explosives, then yes.
Quote from: LMNO on April 25, 2008, 01:54:10 PM
Durk, so what if it's our "programming" that lets us enjoy gigglehate?
I'm not sure I'm understanding why you seem to be ascribing fourth-circuit morality to second-circuit behavior, and why you somehow think that C4 is "better" than C2*.
You say you understand that we are all programmed, and that it's up to each individual to choose their programming, when possible. So why do you feel that yours is so superior?
If you don't want to participate in the gigglehate, then follow the words of Eris: "Oh. Well, then stop."
*Well, if we're talking explosives, then yes.
Personally, I don't know if any circuit is 'better' than any other, but I prefer to
not stay in C2 if I am savvy enough to be conscious that I am in it.
It's just not an enjoyable circuit for me. Although, I guess when an annoying n00b enters the arena I can be drawn into it quickly. And sometimes it can be fun.
Shit, now I'm confused again.
But, if I have this metaphor right, all the circuits work in tandem. An agressive C2 is shaped by all the others. No one is "only" one circuit. After all, if this was only about C2, we wouldn't find it funny. Humor seems to reside in C3 and up.
In any case, calling the n00b-bashing gigglehate a dominant-submissive game really misses the point, because it's the internets. This game has so many more options than up-down, back-forth.
That's true - I think of it as switching back and forth between circuits, but I suppose its more of a network.
Besides, I don't really fuck with n00bs for dominance sake (at least I can't see why it would be dominance, I don't feel any ownership for this forum) its really just for lulz.
I don't think the circuit 2 metaphor necessarily works all that well here, that's why I declared that post lame.
What I said later was a little more on par with what I was trying to say.
Those ideas are more personal reflections than judgements about which modes anyone else might prefer to be in.
I'm not trying to draw a solid line between blatant cruelty and brash humor.
My question about programming was an answer to this:
Quote from: SillyCybin on April 24, 2008, 06:54:05 PM
You still don't get it do you? You're down on hate because of primitive conditioning and programming. Bask in the hate. Learn to love the hate. It's the only true emotion left that they can't lock you up for having :argh!:
Hate is the only true catharsis - shit that hate on all who deserve it :argh!:
What I was pointing out is that calling disdain for hate a result of programming is pointless. It can be argued thus, but it may just as easily, if not MORE easily be shown that the enjoyment of hating another human being is a result of conditioning. Everyone's running programs. Great.
I suppose I could have been conditioned entirely differently, but nonetheless, I am that I am, and I do not enjoy the emotion.. most of the time. I enjoy loving people and things. It almost seems like this is out of style. Peace and love?! What is that, Ya flamin hippy?!! Something more enjoyable (for me) than anger, pain and madness.
Anyway, I THINK any comments made in this thread promoting cold hard cruel hatred of other human beings have been in humour. I don't have any judgements to hand out for gigglehate either... I just think we should start HUG A N00B DAY!
Anything else I say on this matter seems like :deadhorse:
Quote from: daruko on April 25, 2008, 04:01:56 PM
Anything else I say on this matter seems like :deadhorse:
Quote from: ErisOh. Well, then stop.
Quote from: daruko on April 25, 2008, 04:01:56 PM
Something more enjoyable (for me) than anger, pain and madness.
there is nothing more enjoyable then anger, pain and madness
if you do it right
Quote from: daruko on April 25, 2008, 04:01:56 PMI just think we should start HUG A N00B DAY!
every day on PD.com is HUG A N00B DAY.
haven't you noticed?
...We just have a different definition of the word "hug".
We wear inward facing spikes when we hug.
Quote from: Cain on April 25, 2008, 04:38:17 PM
We wear inward facing spikes bacon grease and thumbtacks when we hug.
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 25, 2008, 04:04:09 AM
Quote from: daruko on April 25, 2008, 12:47:16 AM
Quote from: hunter s.durden on April 25, 2008, 12:45:57 AM
Quote from: daruko on April 25, 2008, 12:43:31 AM
Anything accusatory I said, I take back. Can I do that?
No.
Sit back and prepare for war.
ofuk. :neutral:
LOL, its ok... Hunter is full of tough love... or...
well he is full of something or other.
Such a little peacebringer...
Next time I'm in Columbus, we'll fuck to celebrate!
Quote from: hunter s.durden on April 25, 2008, 08:39:15 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 25, 2008, 04:04:09 AM
Quote from: daruko on April 25, 2008, 12:47:16 AM
Quote from: hunter s.durden on April 25, 2008, 12:45:57 AM
Quote from: daruko on April 25, 2008, 12:43:31 AM
Anything accusatory I said, I take back. Can I do that?
No.
Sit back and prepare for war.
ofuk. :neutral:
LOL, its ok... Hunter is full of tough love... or...
well he is full of something or other.
Such a little peacebringer...
Next time I'm in Columbus, we'll fuck to celebrate!
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
I'm noticing you didn't say no.
Fuck no, he's hot for me.
I'm gunna post new Hunter pics soon, so you can get horny. too.