Principia Discordia

Principia Discordia => Techmology and Scientism => Topic started by: Jasper on April 22, 2008, 03:50:26 AM

Title: MATH IS HARD
Post by: Jasper on April 22, 2008, 03:50:26 AM
http://www.chycho.com/?q=math_intro

Actually it isn't.  Math videos by some cool blogger guy. 

This thread is now about educational material.
Title: Re: MATH IS HARD
Post by: Cain on April 22, 2008, 05:17:11 AM
I keep meaning to get into applied mathematics.  Any resources on this topic would be much appreciated.
Title: Re: MATH IS HARD
Post by: Jasper on April 22, 2008, 06:41:22 AM
Chycho goes all the way to trig.  I'm going to try and find something watchable on calculus.
Title: Re: MATH IS HARD
Post by: Jasper on April 22, 2008, 06:47:25 AM
Here we go.

http://www.learner.org/resources/series42.html#
Title: Re: MATH IS HARD
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on April 23, 2008, 12:58:52 AM
Math is fucking awesome.

I always thought I was an artsy-type and that artsy-types are incompatible with math. When I finally took a math class (at the age of 36!) and turned out to not only be good at it, but also to think it was really fun, it surprised the shit out of me. As soon as I have more time/money (when the small terrorist goes to school full days this fall) I am going to take more math.
Title: Re: MATH IS HARD
Post by: Jasper on April 23, 2008, 01:02:37 AM
Learn as much of it ahead of time as possible and you'll get fantastic grades in with the deal.
Title: Re: MATH IS HARD
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on April 23, 2008, 03:27:52 AM
But then won't I be bored, going over familiar material?

Nah. I'll save it, I like surprises. And when I do actually go to school, which is rarely, I get As except for that one time I got a B, man that sucked.

Title: Re: MATH IS HARD
Post by: Vene on April 23, 2008, 03:31:44 AM
Quote from: Nigel on April 23, 2008, 03:27:52 AM
But then won't I be bored, going over familiar material?

Nah. I'll save it, I like surprises. And when I do actually go to school, which is rarely, I get As except for that one time I got a B, man that sucked.


Make numbers your bitch.
Title: Re: MATH IS HARD
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on April 23, 2008, 04:25:24 AM
Quote from: Vene on April 23, 2008, 03:31:44 AM
Quote from: Nigel on April 23, 2008, 03:27:52 AM
But then won't I be bored, going over familiar material?

Nah. I'll save it, I like surprises. And when I do actually go to school, which is rarely, I get As except for that one time I got a B, man that sucked.


Make numbers your bitch.

I'm gonna rape all ten of them, in their asses.
Title: Re: MATH IS HARD
Post by: rong on April 23, 2008, 08:45:37 AM
when i went to college, i saw a poster that said:

"psychology is applied biology,
biology is applied chemistry,
chemistry is applied physics,
and physics is applied mathematics"

so i majored in math, i got half way through a master's degree before i realized that math is applied logic.  (i'm not sure what comes after logic, but that's for another time).

anyhow - if you're gonna get deep into some math, pick up a book on symbolic logic and learn the rules of inference.  it will most likely be just as much fun as math, and it will make math your bitch.
Title: Re: MATH IS HARD
Post by: Cain on April 23, 2008, 08:49:05 AM
Ah, logic.  I did that in philosophy, hated it.  Formal argumentation is fun, and picking apart logic is fun, its just the formal logic trees and crap in the middle that I hated.

Also, I used to say that biology is applied psychology line all the time when I was a biology student (my friend's were psych students and easy to wind up).  And then I went to University and did a year of Psychology  :sad:
Title: Re: MATH IS HARD
Post by: rong on April 23, 2008, 11:03:58 AM
i was really close to moving to amsterdam and enrolling in a doctorate program in logic - but then i realized that probably wouldn't be very good for my sanity.  plus, being surrounded by people not speaking english really gets under my skin after a few days.

i always dug logic because it actually works.  you can take some information and apply some logic and viola! new information.  that blows my fucking mind.
Title: Re: MATH IS HARD
Post by: Dido on April 23, 2008, 01:18:05 PM
Quote from: rong on April 23, 2008, 11:03:58 AM
i was really close to moving to amsterdam and enrolling in a doctorate program in logic - but then i realized that probably wouldn't be very good for my sanity.  plus, being surrounded by people not speaking english really gets under my skin after a few days.

i always dug logic because it actually works.  you can take some information and apply some logic and viola! new information.  that blows my fucking mind.

I started physics in order to get rid of my remaining sanity. It worked just fine. I cannot describe how happy I was that after evading logic for four years it was the first thing we did in math.
Title: Re: MATH IS HARD
Post by: Triple Zero on April 23, 2008, 02:04:49 PM
Quote from: rong on April 23, 2008, 11:03:58 AMi was really close to moving to amsterdam and enrolling in a doctorate program in logic - but then i realized that probably wouldn't be very good for my sanity.  plus, being surrounded by people not speaking english really gets under my skin after a few days.

nearly all dutch speak english quite well. especially the university students.

otoh, logic might indeed not be very good for one's sanity.
Title: Re: MATH IS HARD
Post by: Reginald Ret on April 23, 2008, 02:23:03 PM
in fact so many dutchies love speaking english that its next to impossible to learn dutch by experience, they'll automatically start speaking english as soon as they know a foreigner is near. It took an Aussie friend of mine  about 6 years to learn dutch and his pronunciation is still horrible.
Title: Re: MATH IS HARD
Post by: Xooxe on April 23, 2008, 09:06:12 PM
I'm still as bad at general arithmetic as I was before I reached double figures (in ages).  :sad:
Title: Re: MATH IS HARD
Post by: BootyBay on April 23, 2008, 09:16:14 PM
Dover books are a math person's best friends.  As is Hatcher's "Algebraic Topology" (free online & available at book stores).  Get as many .pdf files as you can on math & soon you will be enlightened (or at least confused).

For anyone who has just barely gotten into the "proof" realm of mathematics, I suggest Group Theory.  It's fun & easy and gives you a little insight into what lies beyond.

A group is a set G with a "binary operation,"which is a function   *: G x G -> G
s.t.

1) * is associative
2) there exists an identity element (i.e. if e is the identity *(g,e) = *(e,g) = g for all g in G)
3) for every g in G there exists g^-1 s.t. *(g,g^-1) = *(g^-1,g) = e

Instead of writing *(g1,g2) one usually writes g1*g2. 
Title: Re: MATH IS HARD
Post by: Jasper on April 23, 2008, 10:57:40 PM
Quote from: Xooxe on April 23, 2008, 09:06:12 PM
I'm still as bad at general arithmetic as I was before I reached double figures (in ages).  :sad:

It's just like learning how to play any game, really.  Once you've got the rules down you're ready to start having fun. 
Title: Re: MATH IS HARD
Post by: Vene on April 23, 2008, 11:05:24 PM
Quote from: triple zero on April 23, 2008, 02:04:49 PM
Quote from: rong on April 23, 2008, 11:03:58 AMi was really close to moving to amsterdam and enrolling in a doctorate program in logic - but then i realized that probably wouldn't be very good for my sanity.  plus, being surrounded by people not speaking english really gets under my skin after a few days.

nearly all dutch speak english quite well. especially the university students.

otoh, logic might indeed not be very good for one's sanity.
I think logic is better for your sanity than English.  At least logic tries to make sense.
Title: Re: MATH IS HARD
Post by: Cain on April 23, 2008, 11:08:24 PM
x=x

Clarify

(12 points)
Title: Re: MATH IS HARD
Post by: Payne on April 23, 2008, 11:09:27 PM
Quote from: Cain on April 23, 2008, 11:08:24 PM
x=x

Clarify

(12 points)

YO MOMMA
Title: Re: MATH IS HARD
Post by: Jasper on April 23, 2008, 11:13:14 PM
Quote from: Cain on April 23, 2008, 11:08:24 PM
x=x

Clarify

(12 points)

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b7/Sign_language_X.svg/403px-Sign_language_X.svg.png)
Title: Re: MATH IS HARD
Post by: Vene on April 23, 2008, 11:21:15 PM
Quote from: Cain on April 23, 2008, 11:08:24 PM
x=x

Clarify

(12 points)
I never said it did a good job at making sense.
Title: Re: MATH IS HARD
Post by: Cain on April 23, 2008, 11:25:28 PM
Quote from: Vene on April 23, 2008, 11:21:15 PM
Quote from: Cain on April 23, 2008, 11:08:24 PM
x=x

Clarify

(12 points)
I never said it did a good job at making sense.

:lol:

True.  I believe that question came up in my Logic exam, first year.

The problem was, as I recall, that the entire exam had to be written using modal logic language.  So you couldn't blather on and hope you'd get it right via luck, you had to do shit like (http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/1/2/9/129903ad25d869abdae7434a7a0d0fe4.png)
Title: Re: MATH IS HARD
Post by: Gundam Agriculture on April 24, 2008, 12:38:10 AM
Beware of Hoare logic.  Or embrace it.  Your choice, but you will have a hard time keeping a straight face.

(http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn32/gundamagriculture/misc/hoare-reasoning.jpg)
Title: Re: MATH IS HARD
Post by: Triple Zero on April 24, 2008, 11:34:01 PM
Quote from: Regret on April 23, 2008, 02:23:03 PMin fact so many dutchies love speaking english that its next to impossible to learn dutch by experience, they'll automatically start speaking english as soon as they know a foreigner is near. It took an Aussie friend of mine  about 6 years to learn dutch and his pronunciation is still horrible.

troof.

pronunciation will probably not improve much, the way you pronounce language is imprinted when you're young, it's pretty hard to get rid of that at a later age.
Title: Re: MATH IS HARD
Post by: LMNO on April 25, 2008, 02:24:42 PM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v711/Marburger/elephantintheway.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v711/Marburger/122yf0ax4.jpg)
Title: Re: MATH IS HARD
Post by: Gundam Agriculture on April 25, 2008, 03:37:25 PM
You got no points cuz you spelled "strait" wrong.  Dees wuz uh spleling tset, amirite?
Title: Re: MATH IS HARD
Post by: Jasper on April 30, 2008, 07:52:39 PM
AWWRRGH Fucking radicals and properties of exponents are confusing me.  I didn't pay enough attention in class and now I might only get 60% on my last homework! 
Title: Re: MATH IS HARD
Post by: Vene on April 30, 2008, 09:57:24 PM
Quote from: Felix on April 30, 2008, 07:52:39 PM
AWWRRGH Fucking radicals and properties of exponents are confusing me.  I didn't pay enough attention in class and now I might only get 60% on my last homework! 
Wait, what?  Exponents are confusing you?  What level math are you taking?
Title: Re: MATH IS HARD
Post by: Jasper on May 01, 2008, 04:30:30 PM
Not plain old exponents.  I'm talking about negative exponents, in rational form, stuck inside fractions, and so on.  It wasn't that hard once I bothered to learn how, in retrospect.

Oh, and I keep forgetting my calculator.  That didn't help.
Title: Re: MATH IS HARD
Post by: Vene on May 01, 2008, 04:42:35 PM
Quote from: Felix on May 01, 2008, 04:30:30 PM
Not plain old exponents.  I'm talking about negative exponents, in rational form, stuck inside fractions, and so on.  It wasn't that hard once I bothered to learn how, in retrospect.

Oh, and I keep forgetting my calculator.  That didn't help.
Yes, the calculator is good.  Very, very good.
(http://www.datamath.org/Graphing/Images/ti-83plus.jpg)
Title: Re: MATH IS HARD
Post by: Jasper on May 01, 2008, 05:00:13 PM
TI-30X.

:(
Title: Re: MATH IS HARD
Post by: BootyBay on June 07, 2008, 04:20:24 AM
Quote from: Cain on April 23, 2008, 11:08:24 PM
x=x

Clarify

(12 points)

Man, I'm a nerd for saying this, but here goes:

If x is a set:
Every member of x is a member of x.

If x is an element of a set:
if x = k, k a fixed element  implies k = x (because '=' is symmetric), implies x = x (because '=' is transitive),
which means, for any x equal to k, k is equal to x and x is equal to x.
if x does not equal k for any k belonging to any set, x is not an element of a set.

If x is a fixed element:
x is equal to itself.
Title: Re: MATH IS HARD
Post by: Jasper on June 07, 2008, 04:36:06 AM
You, I like.
Title: Re: MATH IS HARD
Post by: rong on June 07, 2008, 04:42:15 AM
Quote from: BootyBay on June 07, 2008, 04:20:24 AM
Quote from: Cain on April 23, 2008, 11:08:24 PM
x=x

Clarify

(12 points)

Man, I'm a nerd for saying this, but here goes:

If x is a set:
Every member of x is a member of x.

If x is an element of a set:
if x = k, k a fixed element  implies k = x (because '=' is symmetric), implies x = x (because '=' is transitive),
which means, for any x equal to k, k is equal to x and x is equal to x.
if x does not equal k for any k belonging to any set, x is not an element of a set.

If x is a fixed element:
x is equal to itself.

i believe it said "Clarify"
Title: Re: MATH IS HARD
Post by: Jasper on June 07, 2008, 04:44:59 AM
And he did.  Or is it tl;dr for you?
Title: Re: MATH IS HARD
Post by: rong on June 07, 2008, 05:10:42 AM
no, i just think it doesn't get any more clear than "x=x"
Title: Re: MATH IS HARD
Post by: Jasper on June 07, 2008, 05:29:15 AM
There's a lot of room for misinterpretation in that statement, logically speaking.
Title: Re: MATH IS HARD
Post by: rong on June 07, 2008, 06:21:58 AM
which statement?
Title: Re: MATH IS HARD
Post by: Jasper on June 07, 2008, 08:16:00 AM
:vom:
Title: Re: MATH IS HARD
Post by: rong on June 07, 2008, 08:23:29 AM
 :rimshot:
Title: Re: MATH IS HARD
Post by: BootyBay on June 07, 2008, 09:52:48 AM
I'm afraid I'm gonna have to go with rong on this one
Title: Re: MATH IS HARD
Post by: BootyBay on June 07, 2008, 09:55:19 AM
More nerd points for anyone who can solve this (it's not a hw problem of mine; I'm far too advanced *gazes at self in mirror*)
For a topological space X,
X is Hausdorff iff the diagonal (the set {(x,x) | x in X}) is closed in (X, X)
Title: Re: MATH IS HARD
Post by: rong on June 07, 2008, 10:14:30 AM
topology not my thing . . .


but . . .



why did the mathemetician name his dog Cauchy?





















cuz it left a residue at every pole!
Title: Re: MATH IS HARD
Post by: BootyBay on June 07, 2008, 10:20:38 AM
*loads song "Suicide is Painless*  Ahhhh.... much better...
Title: Re: MATH IS HARD
Post by: Triple Zero on June 07, 2008, 03:27:00 PM
Quote from: rong on June 07, 2008, 10:14:30 AM
topology not my thing . . .


but . . .



why did the mathemetician name his dog Cauchy?

cuz it left a residue at every pole!

:rimshot: / groan
Title: Re: MATH IS HARD
Post by: BootyBay on June 07, 2008, 06:21:37 PM
Quote from: BootyBay on June 07, 2008, 09:55:19 AM
More nerd points for anyone who can solve this (it's not a hw problem of mine; I'm far too advanced *gazes at self in mirror*)
For a topological space X,
X is Hausdorff iff the diagonal (the set {(x,x) | x in X}) is closed in (X, X)


Hint: look it up on google.
Hint for those inclined to do work and not be compensated: Limit points! (I seem to like limit points)