Normally when I see a tag stuck on a profile that says something like "If you hate the United States, vote Democrat," I ignore it. But I can't ignore it when it's on YOUR page, dood.
Not to get too preachy or anything (although that's what you're doing), but I really feel like I need to insert my 2 cents here.
WTF? Democrats hate America? What the fuck kind of Rush Limbaugh divisive hate mongering garbage is that? I really think you know better than to spew that kind of crap..
Last time I checked, this country had government OF the People, BY the People, and FOR the people. That means the PEOPLE get to decide what America stands for and the policies America will enact. It isn't up to pundits who think they know better than anyone else, it's up to Americans. And that means if Americans decide to vote Democrat, then voting Democrat IS American, by definition.
Saying things like "If you hate America, vote Democrat" shows complete disrespect and disregard for the founding ideals of this country. People have the right to choose. People have the right to believe what they want and vote for whomever they please. It isn't up to you or anyone else to tell me that I'm basically a fucking TRAITOR for exercising my RIGHT to self-government and a voice in this political process.
Nevermind that the Republicans have been overseeing 8 years of economic and military decline of the United States, or endorsing the widening gap between rich and poor, or putting their pathetic seal of approval on turning sick children out of hospitals. Nevermind that every foreign policy adventure undertaken by our illustrious President has ended in stalemate at best, or that the US continues to accumulate enemies in every corner of the globe. Nevermind that it is the Republicans who practice the politics of division and belittlement in order to maintain single party power in this country, so they can enact law after law raping the People of our Constitutional and inalienable Rights in the name of "security."
And thank fucking God that Bush wasn't in office during the Cuban Missile Crisis. If Kennedy had just ignored Kruschev because "You can't negotiate with madmen," there'd be nothing crawling around America right now but three-headed radioactive iguanas.
The most dangerous threat to Democracy is not some fucker with a bomb strapped to his gut. It's the idea that Free People betray themselves by BEING FUCKING FREE and choosing their own leaders based on their own opinions and beliefs rather than some fear mongering horse shit dropping out of the mouth of some self-important prick on the radio.
I hope you can understand that people can have differences of opinion about American politics and foreign policy, and still both care deeply about their country. Personal attacks like the one stuck on your profile page have no place at all in civilized political discourse.
Just saying.
oh my gawd, that was win, and absolutely correct.
(http://keetsa.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/mittens.jpg)
NICE.
Still, when anyone sends me email forwards, I still prefer just to forward them all my spam.
Sweet Vex......
:mittens:
Very true!
mittens galore. Vex has done it again.
even though it doesnt really have relevance in my part of the world, i totally loved reading that. great work, vex!
:mittens:
I think an interesting point you raise Vex is the willingness by even the mainstream and moderate factions of the GOP and especially their supporters who seem to feel that not only do more liberal parties and individuals have ideas that they disagree with - which is part and parcel of party politics - but that they are actually unfit for leadership and indeed participation in the political process at all.
That's a very different thing indeed, and a rather worrying one. It indicates a move to the extremes of dirty political fighting, denying the entire legitimacy of another major party as a player in national politics. In the UK, such language is usually reserved for the BNP, and is much more toned down. The big three parties, for all their faults, recognize that if they are voted in, by the will of the people, then that is that. If they failed, they need to improve their message or policies. While they certainly may dislike a government, I have rarely seen attacks against entire party ideologies - except by the illiterate brownshirt wannabes reading the Daily Express and Mail.
The problem is, once legitimacy is denied, what next? For all their bluster, the Democrats still exist and wield power. Well, of course, the next step is violent street fights and inciting riots against their 'illegitimate' authority....
This is exactly how lazy, anti-intellectual people directly give rise to fascism. They don't want to think their own ideology through or provide reasoned explanations for why they believe certain things politically -- they would rather just declare themselves "correct" and insult anyone who disagrees with them as not only wrong but illegitimate.
It's the easiest way to get politically free people to turn on their own freedom -- when somebody disagrees with you, don't do the work of attacking their positions, attack their person. It's ridiculous to suggest that somehow I am standing in the way of your freedom by simply exercising my own freedom. But then, being ridiculous is what idiots do best, and half of them think that's a good thing.
We all know this, but I just want to say, for the record, that the left does this too.
Quote from: Professor Cramulus on June 03, 2008, 03:52:02 AM
We all know this, but I just want to say, for the record, that the left does this too.
Noted and agreed. Both "sides" do it. But in the US, at the moment, the picture is so dominated by the Right that there is no practical benefit for the Left to engage in it, except among people already in the Left. The Right is in such a position that any such talk from the Left would only reinforce the idea that "Liberals" hate "America." For the Left to gain ground now, they have no choice but to actively try to convince people of their cause.
in the past couple months, I've visited a number of forums where this "IF YOU DON'T AGREE WITH ME YOU'RE A TRAITOR" vibe is present. It was just as rabid in the hippies as it was in the conservatards. Vex, do you think you can cobble together a non-partisan version of this rant? I'd love to copypasta it at various left or right forums.
i'll try, but i don't know if i can muster the objectivity.
it occurs to me that those who hold such strong convictions are probably very easy to be persuaded
especially by really base rhetorical allusions to the founding fathers, words like freedom, all that flaggy kind of shit
http://www.poemhunter.com/poem/humanity-i-love-you/
Quote from: Professor Cramulus on June 03, 2008, 03:52:02 AM
We all know this, but I just want to say, for the record, that the left does this too.
Maybe, but not to the same degree. Take for example the antiwar protests in 2003. I can't recall hearing at a single time about an antiwar protest turning violent or attacking pro-war protestors. I'm sure there were, especially later on, but in 2003 there were very few of the total number. Yet at the same time I can recall many pro-war protests breaking up, intimidating, phoning in bomb threats and physically assaulting anti-war protestors. These weren't just isolated incidents either, they took place in almost every state.
Also, I would say traitor is about the strongest description used by the left, whereas certain well known and listened to elements of the right goes well beyond that, often using rhetoric that suggests the elimination and violent death of those that disagree with them. And its not just restricted to the leaders either (I for one would like to see members of the Bush administration tried for war crimes, and if some got hung I would be annoyed only to the extent that I disagree with the death penalty), often this rhetoric is extended to nearly everyone with left-wing views.
So I think there is an important difference there. I haven't heard anyone who wasn't a certified whacko with next to no audience calling for the death of all right-wingers. But I've heard it from the right as pertaining to the left fairly often. Much of these campaigns take place on the internet and radio, so they often slip under the mainstream media radar. But they most certainly exist.
Patriot/traitor.
All depends on which side of the coin lands up doesn't it?
Legally no. You have to knowingly give material aid and comfort to the enemy, as far as I am aware.
Rhetorically speaking, of course. But rhetorically speaking, being a vegetarian makes you a Nazi, and wanting universal healthcare the heir to Stalin.
Using those examples you are correct. Using the American revolution I am correct. :lulz:
Hell, so many spies who were traitors cited patriotism as the motivation. To the country the betrayed. The mind of the human is indeed a wonderfully fucked up thing.