Back in my days as an industrial mechanic, lo these many years ago, I worked on a chemical refining system. Now, this system worked very well, when it was run correctly, and nothing that didn't belong got into the works. When something DID get in, the system would slowly degrade and become more quirky, until it finally went totally haywire and had to be shut down. Before it finally failed though, you could add certain chemicals to the mix, and it would behave almost normally, while you frantically tried to finish a production run. The chemicals didn't remove the problem, they just covered up the symptoms, while you got a little more work out of the system.
Does that sound familiar?
We keep hearing about "Aspergers Syndrome" and "Attention Deficit Disorder" and "Bipolar Disorder" these days. Everyone and their damn DOG has one of the above, and they all need their meds to get through just one more day. It wasn't like that when I was a kid, back in the dim dark days when Elvis was alive and Puffinstuff was still on the air. No, you had well behaved kids, and you had the rest of us, and no excuses were made or even asked for. Everyone understood their roles, and everyone got along fine (except for Chris Curr, who got a "swirley" every Friday at last recess, because he was a teacher's pet, and we all hated him).
So it occurs to me that there isn't just a fad for diagnosing these problems (Well, there is, but only to a degree; take a bipolar person off his meds, and you'll see what I mean). And I kind of doubt that the human race has changed. You can't even blame toxicity, because the problem is all over the damn place, not just in one region. No, I think what's happened here is that we've buggered up the system. We've added something that doesn't belong, and things are breaking down. So we add some chemicals to the system, to get just a little more work out of the broken people around us, before we chuck them in the dumpster. Or until they wander off down an alleyway after some meth, or kill themselves.
So the obvious solution, from a maintenance perspective, is to find what we've added to the system to cause the problem, and remove it. But what is it? Personally, I think it's the TV. I could be mistaken. I didn't exactly make a scientific study of it, with control groups and all, but the general degradation of our culture can be traced directly to the immediate post-war era in America.
Problem is, with the price of gas right now, nobody wants to go out to do anything else. Coincidence? HAR HAR! Of COURSE it's a coincidence, you sap! I mean, otherwise I'd be suggesting some sort of conspiracy, and that's just CRAZY TALK. You should go get a tinfoil beanie.
Or kill me.
1. Television. Totally agree with you on that.
2. Hydrogenated fats
3. High-fructose corn syrup
4. Lack of IRL Fight Club
^These are the things that done buggered everything up.
Oh, and :mittens: for yuo.
:mittens:
Quote from: Cainad on June 16, 2008, 02:34:57 AM
4. Lack of IRL Fight Club
IRL Fight Clubs FTW!!!
WIN! :mittens:
The thing that we've added to the system is more people. I've said this before: people drive other people crazy. We're not physically equipped to deal with hundreds of people, especially strangers, every day.
Apt rant!
Quote from: Rabid Badger of God on June 16, 2008, 03:44:01 AM
The thing that we've added to the system is more people. I've said this before: people drive other people crazy. We're not physically equipped to deal with hundreds of people, especially strangers, every day.
Interesting idea, I always wonder how this tweaks us long - term. Especially the way we can start dismissing people in large crowds.
Sure we are--it's called "suburbia." Why know your neighbors when the assholes on Desperate Housewives are so much more "interesting"?
No, we're equipped, we just got lazy. B00b t00b feeds the lazetrain. If you know who you're living next to, you might have to care. Caring means sharing. And if it's all for me and none for you...that equation doesn't work right.
Quote from: Rabid Badger of God on June 16, 2008, 03:44:01 AM
The thing that we've added to the system is more people. I've said this before: people drive other people crazy. We're not physically equipped to deal with hundreds of people, especially strangers, every day.
GENERIC ADAPTATIVE SYNDROME FTW.
Quote from: Jenne on June 16, 2008, 03:50:31 AM
Sure we are--it's called "suburbia." Why know your neighbors when the assholes on Desperate Housewives are so much more "interesting"?
No, we're equipped, we just got lazy. B00b t00b feeds the lazetrain. If you know who you're living next to, you might have to care. Caring means sharing. And if it's all for me and none for you...that equation doesn't work right.
When you start dismissing everyone you meet on the street, how long does it take before you start dismissing people you might get to know, but don't have the energy to? To keep to yourself, stay within your own circle of friends, never offer to help anyone out. Alienation piled on alienation.
Plus the internet means people get the simulation of human contact and never have to learn to deal wtih face to face social interaction.
i love this thread and i agree. that's why i stopped watching tv years ago. just games and movies, but no fucking advertisements, news, reality shows, game shows, sitcoms, etc. it's very nice. :D
A lot of these disorders are associated with physical, structural differences from 'healthy' people. So while the current era is certainly unique, I'm not prepared to claim it is actually causing any of them.
As for television... I think something can be blamed on television, although I'm not sure what. Play is something that is shared by all semi-intelligent social animals, at least as children, so it isn't a big leap to say that lack of play as a child could potentially screw things up later, or at least push an at risk kid over the edge. I also doubt that sitting in front of a television provides all the benefits of play. The American Academy of Pediatrics agrees with this, and there are studies linking ADHD/ADD with television at a young age.
Quote from: Golden Applesauce on June 16, 2008, 04:41:09 AM
A lot of these disorders are associated with physical, structural differences from 'healthy' people. So while the current era is certainly unique, I'm not prepared to claim it is actually causing any of them.
WHAT CAUSED THE STRUCTURAL CHANGE? MUTAGENIC OOZE?
It's a normal variation, the reason it's "more common" is that there are more people. Also that sort of mental illness is no longer attached with the kind of social stigma that prevents people from blabbing about their problems all over the place.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 16, 2008, 04:45:28 AM
Quote from: Golden Applesauce on June 16, 2008, 04:41:09 AM
A lot of these disorders are associated with physical, structural differences from 'healthy' people. So while the current era is certainly unique, I'm not prepared to claim it is actually causing any of them.
WHAT CAUSED THE STRUCTURAL CHANGE? MUTAGENIC OOZE?
HIGH FRUCTOSE CORN SYRUP. Mark my words.
Quote from: Rabid Badger of God on June 16, 2008, 04:54:49 AM
It's a normal variation, the reason it's "more common" is that there are more people. Also that sort of mental illness is no longer attached with the kind of social stigma that prevents people from blabbing about their problems all over the place.
WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT?
BRING BACK THE FUCKING STIGMA!
Found it! ---> ∑
Wait, never mind...
Quote from: Cainad on June 16, 2008, 05:01:27 AM
Found it! ---> ∑
Wait, never mind...
How did you generate a sigma?
Quote from: Rabid Badger of God on June 16, 2008, 04:06:53 AM
Quote from: Jenne on June 16, 2008, 03:50:31 AM
Sure we are--it's called "suburbia." Why know your neighbors when the assholes on Desperate Housewives are so much more "interesting"?
No, we're equipped, we just got lazy. B00b t00b feeds the lazetrain. If you know who you're living next to, you might have to care. Caring means sharing. And if it's all for me and none for you...that equation doesn't work right.
When you start dismissing everyone you meet on the street, how long does it take before you start dismissing people you might get to know, but don't have the energy to? To keep to yourself, stay within your own circle of friends, never offer to help anyone out. Alienation piled on alienation.
Plus the internet means people get the simulation of human contact and never have to learn to deal wtih face to face social interaction.
I don't think the alienation means you can't handle humanity--it means you're too lazy to fuck with the reality that IS humanity. We have already dismissed people we know, we have gone from living as huge multigenerational units to not-quite-two generational ones. The nucleus is now just that--single-celled. Why? Because we can afford it.
It's not that we are unable to KNOW everyone and be involved with them--it's that we don't have to. We no longer need to talk to a real person to get anything done, we no longer have to step outside our doors to go anywhere. We simulate reality because why bother actually living it and getting messy? Stay clean! Smell fresh! Don't sully yourself with the endometrium of life.
Instead, sterlize and neutralize and then seal it in ziploc.
Because in the WallyWorld of tv, everything stays neat and tidy. And you can ignore and forget and push it all behind and away.
When we lived in villages, we knew everyone--knew when they took a shit and what it looked like and how it smelled. We lived shorter, dirtier lives. (What we'd call organic, I guess, in our modern lingo...) But a whole village was a huge-ass family, really, an organism.
And now we've distilled ourselves so minutely, we don't touch anything we don't want to, smell anything we don't want to, taste anything we don't want to.
So I don't think it has to do with inability, or what we're "equipped" for--I think it has to do with control, tidiness, and laziness.
Quote from: Rabid Badger of God on June 16, 2008, 04:54:49 AM
It's a normal variation, the reason it's "more common" is that there are more people. Also that sort of mental illness is no longer attached with the kind of social stigma that prevents people from blabbing about their problems all over the place.
Well, and people are "better" at diagnosing now. Or, rather, rare diagnoses are understood better and so are attributed more often as the cause.
:mittens: :mittens: :mittens: :mittens: :mittens:
Quote from: Golden Applesauce on June 16, 2008, 04:41:09 AM
A lot of these disorders are associated with physical, structural differences from 'healthy' people. So while the current era is certainly unique, I'm not prepared to claim it is actually causing any of them.
"Physical, structural differences" are evidence that TV has so saturated our gene pool that our brains are now adapting. New generations are already being born with large cavities in their brain, "naturally" designed to be reservoirs where puddles of stupid can collect.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 16, 2008, 05:29:08 AM
Quote from: Cainad on June 16, 2008, 05:11:43 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 16, 2008, 05:05:16 AM
Quote from: Cainad on June 16, 2008, 05:01:27 AM
Found it! ---> ∑
Wait, never mind...
How did you generate a sigma?
We Macfags have a few secret mahdjiqual tricks.
Oh, you're a stinking Mac heretic.
Born and bred :thumb:
Jenne I agree except I would replace tv with internet. Internet is false interaction and this is how we get furries.
Quote from: Rabid Badger of God on June 16, 2008, 04:54:49 AM
It's a normal variation, the reason it's "more common" is that there are more people.
But that makes no logical sense, taken literally. If 10% of people have red hair, red hair does not become more common as a proportion of the population when the population increases. It stays at 10%.
Quote from: Nigel on June 16, 2008, 07:46:33 AM
Quote from: Rabid Badger of God on June 16, 2008, 04:54:49 AM
It's a normal variation, the reason it's "more common" is that there are more people.
But that makes no logical sense, taken literally. If 10% of people have red hair, red hair does not become more common as a proportion of the population when the population increases. It stays at 10%.
10% of 10 people = 1 person
10% of 100 people = 10 people
etc etc
The larger the population, the more people who have x problem. I have no idea whether there's been a change in the rate of occurence over time, but if every single person who has, say, Aspbergers can't shut up about their problems, that adds up to a lot of people very quickly. Especially on the internet where there is no physical limit to the population.
I am trying very hard not to talk out of my ass here, hope I'm being understood.
Quote from: vexati0n on June 16, 2008, 05:42:08 AM
Quote from: Golden Applesauce on June 16, 2008, 04:41:09 AM
A lot of these disorders are associated with physical, structural differences from 'healthy' people. So while the current era is certainly unique, I'm not prepared to claim it is actually causing any of them.
"Physical, structural differences" are evidence that TV has so saturated our gene pool that our brains are now adapting. New generations are already being born with large cavities in their brain, "naturally" designed to be reservoirs where puddles of stupid can collect.
:mittens: :mittens:
Also one could take into account the behaviors that are learned from watching the TV. If a child sits indoors all day watching the tube, even 'wholesome' Disney programing, they tend to pick up strange social behaviors that otherwize would not occur if they were interacting with other, real children.
A) :mittens:
B) Holy shit TV is so fucking evil. It idealizes dramatization of everything, which encourages people to have problems (ADD, bipolar, whatever) so that they can complain about how hard it is, and people will prop them up, and every minute of their life will be a montage from the OC where the fragile beautiful girl gets loved despite her emotional difficulties (nevermind that the intelligent, emotionally well-adapted but plain looking girl will remain the outcast) and the bad ass boy with severe inabilities to function is the one that gets mad laid. (At least, this is what I think--they keep playing the OC at my gym, but I am listening to music, so I just see but don't hear; it's kind of terrifying.) And we worship and obsessively watch the downfall of celebrities through drugs and mental breakdowns, just feeding this sick machine of GLAMORIZING the idea of BEING FUCKED UP.
C) high fructose corn syrup is one of the most evil things that exists, besides TV.
Quote from: Rabid Badger of God on June 16, 2008, 08:49:12 AM
Quote from: Nigel on June 16, 2008, 07:46:33 AM
Quote from: Rabid Badger of God on June 16, 2008, 04:54:49 AM
It's a normal variation, the reason it's "more common" is that there are more people.
But that makes no logical sense, taken literally. If 10% of people have red hair, red hair does not become more common as a proportion of the population when the population increases. It stays at 10%.
10% of 10 people = 1 person
10% of 100 people = 10 people
etc etc
The larger the population, the more people who have x problem. I have no idea whether there's been a change in the rate of occurence over time, but if every single person who has, say, Aspbergers can't shut up about their problems, that adds up to a lot of people very quickly. Especially on the internet where there is no physical limit to the population.
I am trying very hard not to talk out of my ass here, hope I'm being understood.
That's more people, not a higher rate of occurrence. "More common" = "higher rate of occurrence".
No matter how many more people there are in the world, unless the rate of occurrence changes, something cannot become "more common".
Just sayin'.
There is also a greater access to neurologists, psychologists, and psychiatrists, at least in first world countries. Conditions that are just been challenging, as opposed to severely disabling, are more likely to get noticed.
Quote from: Nigel on June 16, 2008, 06:26:25 PM
Quote from: Rabid Badger of God on June 16, 2008, 08:49:12 AM
Quote from: Nigel on June 16, 2008, 07:46:33 AM
Quote from: Rabid Badger of God on June 16, 2008, 04:54:49 AM
It's a normal variation, the reason it's "more common" is that there are more people.
But that makes no logical sense, taken literally. If 10% of people have red hair, red hair does not become more common as a proportion of the population when the population increases. It stays at 10%.
10% of 10 people = 1 person
10% of 100 people = 10 people
etc etc
The larger the population, the more people who have x problem. I have no idea whether there's been a change in the rate of occurence over time, but if every single person who has, say, Aspbergers can't shut up about their problems, that adds up to a lot of people very quickly. Especially on the internet where there is no physical limit to the population.
I am trying very hard not to talk out of my ass here, hope I'm being understood.
That's more people, not a higher rate of occurrence. "More common" = "higher rate of occurrence".
No matter how many more people there are in the world, unless the rate of occurrence changes, something cannot become "more common".
:roll: I know that. Hence "more common" being in quotations in my first statement. Thanks for treating me like a retard though.
Quote from: Golden Applesauce on June 16, 2008, 06:34:52 PM
There is also a greater access to neurologists, psychologists, and psychiatrists, at least in first world countries. Conditions that are just been challenging, as opposed to severely disabling, are more likely to get noticed.
This is true.
But there's also more coddling for this.
Previously people were sad and they would get over it. Now people are sad and they want paid time off from work, extensions on deadlines, leniency from their landlord that they keep turning in rent late... Because it's a
CONDITION.You would not believe the hoops I have to jump through to help coddle some of the students in this university. First the professors make concessions, but then they hand all of the bureaucratic crap involved in this over to me, and suddenly giving someone with ADD a bunch of special treatment becomes a nightmare.
I'm sorry, I have to do a bunch of extra work because you are too special to A) take the exam at the same time or in the same location as the rest of your class B) hand-write anything C) not have twice as much time? And then you don't show up to the exam and I have to go through this whole scenario again to set it up a second time? I thought final exams were a one-shot deal. No, apparently, if you have ADD and so you FORGET TO GO TO AN EXAM you still get hugsies and a do over.
My sister thinks this is because there is no consistency. She teaches 8th grade science and finds that her students don't behave themselves because they don't have to--although they are threatened with "perform behavior A and you will be denied reward B" they nonetheless perform behavior A and all that happens is someone says "shame on you, you shouldn't do that!" but they still receive reward B. This is made even more frequent when any excuse under the sun can be generated. So, if you can say "well, I know I shouldn't have done behavior A, but I have condition C which makes it just SO HARD not to do behavior A!" then you get let off the hook, still get your reward, and probably don't even get scolded.
So why NOT get a condition? It sure as hell makes life a lot easier.
And although I'd love to blame this on shrinks or whatever, they're just giving the patient what they want, and if you don't give the patient what they want, you don't get paid.
Me, I would LOVE to tell those kids "shut the fuck up, you didn't show up to your final exam TOO FUCKING BAD!" but then I'd get fired. And I like getting paid. So I jump through hoops to accommodate the little brats. Shrinks are largely doing the same thing.
Quote from: Darth Cupcake on June 16, 2008, 06:43:55 PM
Me, I would LOVE to tell those kids "shut the fuck up, you didn't show up to your final exam TOO FUCKING BAD!" but then I'd get fired. And I like getting paid. So I jump through hoops to accommodate the little brats. Shrinks are largely doing the same thing.
This is, of course, the answer. It sounds like the very job you do is feeding the malfuction in the machine. Do it MOAR!!!! Set the little fuckwits up for failure. Find ways to shuffle them through the system without learning a goddamn thing. I'm betting they will promote your ass, give you fat loot, and implement your policies far and wide. This will lead to the inevitable destruction of this unholy mess and we can all wallow in a morass of apocalyptic destruction while praising your name!!!!
Or, you know... not.
Quote from: Rabid Badger of God on June 16, 2008, 06:43:11 PM
Quote from: Nigel on June 16, 2008, 06:26:25 PM
Quote from: Rabid Badger of God on June 16, 2008, 08:49:12 AM
Quote from: Nigel on June 16, 2008, 07:46:33 AM
Quote from: Rabid Badger of God on June 16, 2008, 04:54:49 AM
It's a normal variation, the reason it's "more common" is that there are more people.
But that makes no logical sense, taken literally. If 10% of people have red hair, red hair does not become more common as a proportion of the population when the population increases. It stays at 10%.
10% of 10 people = 1 person
10% of 100 people = 10 people
etc etc
The larger the population, the more people who have x problem. I have no idea whether there's been a change in the rate of occurence over time, but if every single person who has, say, Aspbergers can't shut up about their problems, that adds up to a lot of people very quickly. Especially on the internet where there is no physical limit to the population.
I am trying very hard not to talk out of my ass here, hope I'm being understood.
That's more people, not a higher rate of occurrence. "More common" = "higher rate of occurrence".
No matter how many more people there are in the world, unless the rate of occurrence changes, something cannot become "more common".
:roll: I know that. Hence "more common" being in quotations in my first statement. Thanks for treating me like a retard though.
I wouldn't have patiently explained if your response hadn't indicated that you weren't getting what I said in the first place.
Sorry for treating you like a human being instead of laughing and calling you names, next time I'll just do that instead.
A lot of fairly smart people, myself included, don't always "get" statistics, and since I don't really know you, I have no way of knowing whether you do or don't.
As for why I'm not convinced that your explanation works, unless there's an actual per capita incidence increase, there's not necessarily a reason for the perceived incidence to increase. Statistically, there is a higher incidence of diagnosis for Asperger's, ADD, and other psychiatric disorders, but what's unclear is whether that's because of an increased rate of those disorders, or simply more diagnosing of them.
ALL THIS COD-DLING MAKES ME HUNGRY SICK!
(http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/5002/cod1ot5.jpg)
I enjoyed the rant Roger, but it's only a matter of time before Cain reposts his collection of "back in the good ol' days" quotes from ancient history.
I do think you're right about overdiagnosing though.
It's my impression that people with disabilities have been encouraged by counselors and whatnot to disclose their issues more often in order to get special treatment (ideally when this is warranted).
Combine this with kids being notorious for weaseling out of work and the overdiagnosing/overprescribing of drugs by "doctors," and it seems we have a recipe for a IANAR pandemic.
It isn't that there is "more" Asberger's or AD(H)D, or depression; it's that where in the past people were expected to overcome such obstacles (albeit to the detriment of many), these days we just write a script and medicate these people into "normalcy." The problem with that, though, is that the "normalcy" these people become accustomed to is not actually very healthy. First of all, it's substance-dependence. Secondly, we are not fighting the root causes of these syndromes, because to face that beast would make EVERYBODY need some fucking Prozac. We don't want to admit that our addiction to convenience and instant gratification is making us sick, physically, mentally, and culturally. We don't want to put in the effort it requires to be well-rounded, well-educated, or well-spoken.
Our entire society is fast becoming a club for non-joiners. Where we once had to depend for our very survival on the people around us, we have disconnected from ourselves and each other, and addicted ourselves to a synthesized approximation of community that is manufactured not to replace the functions of the vital social bonds our civilization is build on, but to sell us on the idea that everything Humans have spent the past 50,000 years striving for is now, magically, available at a low introductory rate and can be delivered in six to eight weeks.
It is not TV specifically that has caused this, but TV has led the charge. It symbolizes the modern institution of the One-Way Society. The myth that there is a They out there, somewhere, looking out for Us; and that we no longer need each other because we have the TV and the blessings of the Modern Age.
@vex, :mittens:
Bollocks to you all. Back in the dim, long ago days when The Good Reverend was just a little girl, people were stupid.
But not this stupid.
They were also crazy.
But not this crazy.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 18, 2008, 03:00:11 AM
when The Good Reverend was just a little girl
:lulz: There's one for the archives. (no diss, issa funny)
Maybe it's also something we have removed from the system. Exercise. Back in the day when I was young, dumb, and full of cum we never just sat around watching tv or playing stupid games. We were active. Physically. Discipline has also been removed. Monkeys need to be punished when they are acting stupid, not 'timed out' or 'talked to sternly'. If we had a problem with each other we could pound the snot out of each other. While this never altered a personal position it did allow us to get the fuck over it and move on. Now this involves conformance training. And medication with some fancy label to excuse 'abnormal' behavior.
just rambling, what the hell do I know.
Quote from: The Reverend Asshat on June 18, 2008, 12:18:08 PM
Maybe it's also something we have removed from the system. Exercise. Back in the day when I was young, dumb, and full of cum we never just sat around watching tv or playing stupid games. We were active. Physically. Discipline has also been removed. Monkeys need to be punished when they are acting stupid, not 'timed out' or 'talked to sternly'. If we had a problem with each other we could pound the snot out of each other. While this never altered a personal position it did allow us to get the fuck over it and move on. Now this involves conformance training. And medication with some fancy label to excuse 'abnormal' behavior.
just rambling, what the hell do I know.
You're not allowed to say things like that! Studies have shown.... :lulz:
Quote from: The Reverend Asshat on June 18, 2008, 12:18:08 PM
Maybe it's also something we have removed from the system. Exercise. Back in the day when I was young, dumb, and full of cum we never just sat around watching tv or playing stupid games. We were active. Physically. Discipline has also been removed. Monkeys need to be punished when they are acting stupid, not 'timed out' or 'talked to sternly'. If we had a problem with each other we could pound the snot out of each other. While this never altered a personal position it did allow us to get the fuck over it and move on. Now this involves conformance training. And medication with some fancy label to excuse 'abnormal' behavior.
I agree with the first bit. I think as far as the discipline goes, it really depends on temperament, among other things. I know people who grew up in strict homes and got spankings who turned out horrible, and people who grew up in lenient homes and never received more than a time out that turned out to be wonderful people and very close to their families. Switch it around, and you can find the same. My kids get time outs, but if they absolutely refuse to sit down and take the time out, then the issue escalates to severe beatings (totally kidding). But the point is, they know how to keep it at the "time out level". I do raise my voice to my kids, but I wish I wouldn't because I've noticed that the louder you get, the louder you HAVE to get. Some parents do no more than raise an eyebrow or use an off-tone and their kids
know they better watch it... I can scream and stomp until I'm blue in the face, and mine still
might not stop whatever they're doing.
This is just where the "back in my day" goes a bit too far... back in the day when kids got whipped with razor straps and screamed at until their ears bled, the human race was still spitting out fucktards, and those fucktards in turn spat out their own fucktard juniors, who in turn either repeated the violence cycle or spoiled their children with no discipline and many crutches (anti-cycle but still OF that cycle). I think the key with good discipline is to keep it consistent enough for the child to realize(eventually) that THEY are in control of the level of their punishment, not you. I think fear is a messier motivator than awareness.
Every child has individual needs, and the more they themselves understand those needs, the better off the child will be. Not so they can say "I have ass burgers, I don't take time outs", but so they can say "Hmm, I have a tendency to act out irrationally, where is this leading me right now?" Recently, I read Aldous Huxley's Island, and I felt that a lot of the ideas in that book about how to educate and discipline children were really good ideas. I have a close friend whose parents are an inspiration to me, because they never raise their voices and never spank, and their kids have turned out awesome. They're intelligent, calm, level-headed, creative and very close to their family. However, that doesn't mean their brand of parenting works perfectly on MY children. My kids are much more like me (which is often anything but calm or level-headed), so if I want to minimize the fear game and encourage self discipline, I've gotta get a bit creative.
Quote from: hawkjust rambling, what the hell do I know.
yeah.
I did not advocate beatings but punishment. If I ever had to raise my voice to my children they knew it also brought a swat on the rear. Huge difference between abuse and punishment. If my kids had ever threatened to call social services on me I would have given them a reason and they knew it. I told them so. It's not about fear. It's about the realization that certain behavior brings certain reactions.
Quote from: The Reverend Asshat on June 18, 2008, 03:16:36 PM
I did not advocate beatings but punishment. If I ever had to raise my voice to my children they knew it also brought a swat on the rear. Huge difference between abuse and punishment. If my kids had ever threatened to call social services on me I would have given them a reason and they knew it. I told them so. It's not about fear. It's about the realization that certain behavior brings certain reactions.
Quite sensible. I just like the idea of breaking away from the reward/punishment method of discipline when/if I see the opportunity to do it differently. Sorry if it sounded like I put words in your mouth.
Quote from: Daruko on June 18, 2008, 03:27:48 PM
Quote from: The Reverend Asshat on June 18, 2008, 03:16:36 PM
I did not advocate beatings but punishment. If I ever had to raise my voice to my children they knew it also brought a swat on the rear. Huge difference between abuse and punishment. If my kids had ever threatened to call social services on me I would have given them a reason and they knew it. I told them so. It's not about fear. It's about the realization that certain behavior brings certain reactions.
Quite sensible. I just like the idea of breaking away from the reward/punishment method of discipline when/if I see the opportunity to do it differently. Sorry if it sounded like I put words in your mouth.
No problems. I enjoyed your input.
I think were might be facing challenges based on a social evolution of some sort.
Every generation seems to eventually make the same statements about the next generation;"Dern Kids ain't got no Discipline anymore, the long haired emo freaks! They have it so much better, and they just waste all that opportunity! When I was a kid..."
I've given this a lot of thought, and I have to wonder if it doesn't relate to a sort of 'generational BiP'. That is, it seems to me that almost every generation, once its gotten older, seems to think that the SHIT is about to HIT the fan... an almost apocalyptic view of the End of THE WORLD (or maybe THEIR WORLD). And, really, it is, isn't it? The world I was born into had 4 channels on television and you had to rotate the antenna to get from one channel to the next. Gasoline was under a dollar a gallon. I got spanked in High School by the Principal for not doing my homework... While political nonsense was happening, it certainly didn't feel as intense and insane as what we have now does... but, how much of that is ACTUAL, and how much of that is based partially (or entirely) on my BiP. Hell, the Iran Contra affair was boiling when I was a kid... but in my perception it was some weird tv show that kept interrupting the good stuff.
Are doomsday cults (including Christianity) so popular, because each generation sees it's own demise... the End of the World... the world they see from their BiP?
So back to social evolution....
Society seems to be constantly changing, like interacting processes, creating causal feedback loops (hat tip to RAW)... one thing happens in society, which inspires something else, which inspires something totally 'new'. Consider music in the 20th Century, for example, Rag turned into Big Band, which was part of an African-American feedback loop, meanwhile the Blues (another part of the feedback loop) and Chuck Berry inspired some kid with a guitar and blue suede shoes. That further inspired the Rock and Roll feedback loop, some Brits showed up and next thing you know there are Power Chord ballads, which, for someone who grew up on Tommy Dorsey, probably sounds like total nonsense.
What was forbidden two generations ago, is embraced now. What was forbidden a single generation ago, seems tolerated now. In this constantly shifting maelstrom, I don't find it all that surprising that we end up with social misfits. Not only as people that may not fit with the latest social evolutions, but as failed experiments as well. I mean, not only are they getting feedback from the currently active social processes around them, they're getting feedback from guardians and teachers that may still be full of "shrapnel" from the social processes of 20 years ago. If they're dealing with very religious parents, then they also have feedback from a social process that is maybe 2000 years old.
STFU!
It's much funnier when no one knows this shit :argh!:
Rat, you got SPANKED in HIGH SCHOOL??? WTF? Did you go to a Catholic high school or something? Because I didn't think you were any older than me, and that just seems bizarre to me.
Quote from: Nigel on June 18, 2008, 05:51:51 PM
Rat, you got SPANKED in HIGH SCHOOL??? WTF? Did you go to a Catholic high school or something? Because I didn't think you were any older than me, and that just seems bizarre to me.
I graduated in 1993, my freshman year (1989) I got spanked in a public High School. True Story.
Quote from: Nigel on June 18, 2008, 05:51:51 PM
Rat, you got SPANKED in HIGH SCHOOL??? WTF? Did you go to a Catholic high school or something? Because I didn't think you were any older than me, and that just seems bizarre to me.
Heh. I'm 54 and even the teachers could take us out to the hall and paddle us.
Quote from: The Reverend Asshat on June 18, 2008, 06:21:00 PM
Quote from: Nigel on June 18, 2008, 05:51:51 PM
Rat, you got SPANKED in HIGH SCHOOL??? WTF? Did you go to a Catholic high school or something? Because I didn't think you were any older than me, and that just seems bizarre to me.
Heh. I'm 54 and even the teachers could take us out to the hall and paddle us.
We had teachers that paddled students, though usually that was for behavior issues in class... rather than not doing homework. :argh!:
I recall our 9th grade science teacher taking the stoners out in the hall from time to time for a "Whoupin"
Jesus fuck.
Quote from: Nigel on June 18, 2008, 07:09:01 PM
Jesus fuck.
Granted that was in Philo, Ohio with a graduating class of 300 or so... they were still paddling kids when I left and spent my Junior and Senior year in vocational school... I didn't see any spankings there.
I think corporal punishment in schools was outlawed in Oregon a very long time ago, because even when I was a kid in the 70's I never heard of such a thing.
I liked the OP.
they had the strap back when i was in school ... asperger's for every one is in a large part due to the multi billion dollar profits and the bribing of doctors to diagnose / prescribe the meds . children acting "like children " is now a symptom . we just ran around the neighbourhood till we were tired
A good diet and lots of exercise does seem to relieve many "symptoms" of disorders which are probably misdiagnosed in the first place.
However, knowing a couple of kids who REALLY DO have Asperger's, they're totally different from "regular" kids. No one with an actual Asperger's kid is going "gosh, we thought he was a little different but we didn't pay it much mind" because these kids are fucking INTENSELY different from "normal" kids. That's one reason I don't buy these social retards who are dicks and then say "but we have Asperger's! It just wasn't diagnosed until I was an adult because my parents didn't notice!"
BULL SHIT. I wasn't diagnosed with ADHD until I was an adult because when I was a kid, only boys could have it. :lulz: I was, however, subjected to all sorts of testing trying to figure out what WAS wrong with me, and I was such a terror in school that my mom pulled me out and "home-schooled" me (which mostly meant ignoring me while she partied with her little circle of hippie activist actor friends). There is no "my parents didn't notice". If your kid has a really real disorder, you fucking notice because the very first thing they do is make YOUR life insanely difficult.
Nigel's motorcycle runs on 100% pure Correctness. My little brother was/is not "a little bit odd." He was a terror, and medication combined with some therapy has not only made life easier for us, but it's made him much, much happier.
over diagnosis miss diagnosis does not mean real illness doesnt occur .. if your kid is a little weird a little out of control calling it a disease and getting meds because you are to lazy to do some parenting (nutrition exercise discipline) is part of the problem. lazy parents are more likely the cause in other over medicate "illnesses " than they are in aspergers , aspergers and other real problems should be pretty obvious as mentioned above
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 16, 2008, 02:21:06 AM
So the obvious solution, from a maintenance perspective, is to find what we've added to the system to cause the problem, and remove it. But what is it? Personally, I think it's the TV. I could be mistaken. I didn't exactly make a scientific study of it, with control groups and all, but the general degradation of our culture can be traced directly to the immediate post-war era in America.
sorry, doesn't work.
i have a lot of symptoms of ADD and ASD that are keeping me in a constant struggle to be able to work without crashing down and organize my life. and i dumped my TV some 7 years ago, and it didn't improve anything (oh it does make your head feel wonderfully clean btw, i can recommend it to anyone).
unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately, depending on which way you look at it), meds don't seem to work for me. (though dexamphetamine was kinda fun,
very good thing i'm off of it).
if you find what it is, please tell me, the past 10 years of my life have been pretty much 100% dedicated to finding a way to function somewhat like most other people.
so far, it's gained me enough knowledge about prodictivity tips and tricks to write five books and i am able to coach anybody into organizing their life more efficiently--anybody except myself. i got a burnout instead. which i cannot recommend to anybody.
anyway, i don't intend to give up, and as long as i keep struggling, i can just about keep my head above the water (also thanks to the dutch social welfare system), and who knows, i might fix myself one day.
-- okay sorry for that bit of emo.
next candidates
- High Fructose Corn Syrup: we don't have that in NL, we use regular sugar from beets.
- Lots of People Pressure: might be, might very well be.
my personal guess:
- Information Overload. even though i threw away my TV, i'm just slurping up text and stuff from the internets. and not so much the dumb 4chan and youtube stuff, but i'm learning on zillions of new topics, eating it all up, getting smarter and smarter, but never actually doing anything with that knowledge. well, maybe not never, but not enough--and it seems to fuck up my life or something.
I didn't read the 5 pages of this thread, so I may be just saying exactly what everyone else is saying, but having read the 5th page, I think it needs to be said that people too often deal in absolutes.
Asbergers, while I admittedly know little about it, I'm sure is a legitimate disease with some people. Same with ADD/ADHD/bipolar/whatever. They're all over-diagnosed, but they can fuck up some peoples' lives unimaginably. Most people I know who are diagnosed with ADD don't have it, and they sell their adderall. A select few really need their amphetamine to be a functioning member of society.
I was diagnosed with bipolar a couple years ago, before they changed it to schizophrenia. I thought it was BS too until I was chased home by trees.
basically, in my mind, no one, no doctor, lawyer, mother, brother, anyone has ANY idea what the hell is going on with mental disorders. the DSM-IV makes less sense than the guy in my dorm who ate acid twice a week. No one knows what's going on, there are no exact diagnoses you can give for 95% of mental illnesses, so while there are legitimate problems that need to be addressed, everyone should just ADMIT that they don't know exactly what they or a loved one or patient has, and just work with what they do know.
Don't treat me for schizophrenic symptoms I don't display, treat me for the ones I do.
all crazies aren't crazy in the same way, and doctors these days are trying to sharpshoot with a shotgun
edit: forgot to add an "n't" to "are"
Quote from: NWC on June 19, 2008, 09:19:08 PM
I didn't read the 5 pages of this thread, so I may be just saying exactly what everyone else is saying, but having read the 5th page, I think it needs to be said that people too often deal in absolutes.
Asbergers, while I admittedly know little about it, I'm sure is a legitimate disease with some people. Same with ADD/ADHD/bipolar/whatever. They're all over-diagnosed, but they can fuck up some peoples' lives unimaginably. Most people I know who are diagnosed with ADD don't have it, and they sell their adderall. A select few really need their amphetamine to be a functioning member of society.
I was diagnosed with bipolar a couple years ago, before they changed it to schizophrenia. I thought it was BS too until I was chased home by trees.
basically, in my mind, no one, no doctor, lawyer, mother, brother, anyone has ANY idea what the hell is going on with mental disorders. the DSM-IV makes less sense than the guy in my dorm who ate acid twice a week. No one knows what's going on, there are no exact diagnoses you can give for 95% of mental illnesses, so while there are legitimate problems that need to be addressed, everyone should just ADMIT that they don't know exactly what they or a loved one or patient has, and just work with what they do know.
Don't treat me for schizophrenic symptoms I don't display, treat me for the ones I do.
all crazies are crazy in the same way, and doctors these days are trying to sharpshoot with a shotgun
:potd:
Quote from: triple zero on June 19, 2008, 06:32:04 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 16, 2008, 02:21:06 AM
So the obvious solution, from a maintenance perspective, is to find what we've added to the system to cause the problem, and remove it. But what is it? Personally, I think it's the TV. I could be mistaken. I didn't exactly make a scientific study of it, with control groups and all, but the general degradation of our culture can be traced directly to the immediate post-war era in America.
sorry, doesn't work.
i have a lot of symptoms of ADD and ASD that are keeping me in a constant struggle to be able to work without crashing down and organize my life. and i dumped my TV some 7 years ago, and it didn't improve anything (oh it does make your head feel wonderfully clean btw, i can recommend it to anyone).
unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately, depending on which way you look at it), meds don't seem to work for me. (though dexamphetamine was kinda fun, very good thing i'm off of it).
if you find what it is, please tell me, the past 10 years of my life have been pretty much 100% dedicated to finding a way to function somewhat like most other people.
Because you aren't like other people?
This is not necessarily a bad thing.
Quote from: NWC on June 19, 2008, 09:19:08 PM
all crazies aren't crazy in the same way, and doctors these days are trying to sharpshoot with a shotgun
No, they're trying to sell drugs, as they get a form of kickback from doing so.
sad but true. I used to work in clinical research. I feel speak from an informed perspective when I say DRUG COMPANIES ARE HORRIBLE ALIEN PARASITES, CLINGING TO MEDICINE FOR SWEET NOURISHING GREEN BLOOD. No joke, I've seen drug reps say, "Hey Dr. <name withheld>, I noticed your perscription numbers for Spagocane are down this month. Is there anything I can do to help you get our amazing drug to the people that need it?"
Dr: Well right now we're trying to get a commercial filmed for our study groups.
Drug Rep: What is that, like $5000? I've got my check book right here.
THAT SHIT HAPPENED
Quote from: Nigel on June 18, 2008, 09:25:15 PM
A good diet and lots of exercise does seem to relieve many "symptoms" of disorders which are probably misdiagnosed in the first place.
However, knowing a couple of kids who REALLY DO have Asperger's, they're totally different from "regular" kids. No one with an actual Asperger's kid is going "gosh, we thought he was a little different but we didn't pay it much mind" because these kids are fucking INTENSELY different from "normal" kids. That's one reason I don't buy these social retards who are dicks and then say "but we have Asperger's! It just wasn't diagnosed until I was an adult because my parents didn't notice!"
BULL SHIT. I wasn't diagnosed with ADHD until I was an adult because when I was a kid, only boys could have it. :lulz: I was, however, subjected to all sorts of testing trying to figure out what WAS wrong with me, and I was such a terror in school that my mom pulled me out and "home-schooled" me (which mostly meant ignoring me while she partied with her little circle of hippie activist actor friends). There is no "my parents didn't notice". If your kid has a really real disorder, you fucking notice because the very first thing they do is make YOUR life insanely difficult.
I had a friend, Mike, when I was little, and he had Aspergers, and it was really, really obvious something was up with him (to everybody but geeky me, who couldn't fathom why a kid so smart was in special ed.) Had just about zero ability to control his weird crap and made his mom's life hell (or so I hear. Again, I wasn't paying attention, but I vaguely remember him doing weird aspie things whenever his mom wanted him to do something.) He's a far cry from some antisocial nerd making up excuses for being weird, and in his case, meds & a long stay in a private school for autism spectrum kids was the only way to keep him under control.
Quote from: NWC on June 19, 2008, 09:19:08 PM
I didn't read the 5 pages of this thread, so I may be just saying exactly what everyone else is saying, but having read the 5th page, I think it needs to be said that people too often deal in absolutes.
Asbergers, while I admittedly know little about it, I'm sure is a legitimate disease with some people. Same with ADD/ADHD/bipolar/whatever. They're all over-diagnosed, but they can fuck up some peoples' lives unimaginably. Most people I know who are diagnosed with ADD don't have it, and they sell their adderall. A select few really need their amphetamine to be a functioning member of society.
I was diagnosed with bipolar a couple years ago, before they changed it to schizophrenia. I thought it was BS too until I was chased home by trees.
basically, in my mind, no one, no doctor, lawyer, mother, brother, anyone has ANY idea what the hell is going on with mental disorders. the DSM-IV makes less sense than the guy in my dorm who ate acid twice a week. No one knows what's going on, there are no exact diagnoses you can give for 95% of mental illnesses, so while there are legitimate problems that need to be addressed, everyone should just ADMIT that they don't know exactly what they or a loved one or patient has, and just work with what they do know.
Don't treat me for schizophrenic symptoms I don't display, treat me for the ones I do.
all crazies aren't crazy in the same way, and doctors these days are trying to sharpshoot with a shotgun
edit: forgot to add an "n't" to "are"
They treat symptoms, not causes. They only have the most vague theories as to the causes, most of them related to symptoms- like "chemical imbalance". The best analogy I can come up with is they treat a guy with gangrene of the foot with migraine pills because he exhibits the migrane symptoms - "groaning in pain"
Modern psychiatry is at the equivalent level of advancement as normal medicine was 200 years ago - they're still applying leeches and drilling holes to let the demons escape.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 20, 2008, 03:00:33 AMBecause you aren't like other people?
This is not necessarily a bad thing.
oh i know, i don't mind being unlike most people in most of the cases, i can handle it or i don't mind. even though i've got some mild symptoms of autism, i'm an incredibly social guy (dunno how that works either, but apparently it's possible--before, i always thought being anti-social was pretty much the
definition of autism).
it's the part where on the one hand, i have this brilliant mind, that is able to learn and understand the most complicated stuff on a very wide variety of topics, and that is able to combine that knowledge into the most wonderful new ideas--and on the other hand it's most of the time unable to turn this into work (blockage, like constipation), to get the ideas out of headspace into the real world. except for writing them down. which is what i do, otherwise they'll get lost and maybe stop coming.
Quote from: NWCbasically, in my mind, no one, no doctor, lawyer, mother, brother, anyone has ANY idea what the hell is going on with mental disorders. the DSM-IV makes less sense than the guy in my dorm who ate acid twice a week. No one knows what's going on, there are no exact diagnoses you can give for 95% of mental illnesses, so while there are legitimate problems that need to be addressed, everyone should just ADMIT that they don't know exactly what they or a loved one or patient has, and just work with what they do know.
because this is not what the DSM-IV is intended for. the DSM-IV is purely designed to test people for certain symptoms. some of these symptoms then have been grouped into names called "disorders", if you have enough of the symptoms that belong to a certain group, you have that disorder.
they can say that with certainty, because these disorders are completely
defined by the symptoms they consist of. they have nothing to do with what is actually going on in the mind or brain. if you have symptoms X Y and Z, you have ADD. whether these symptoms may have been caused by a common cause Q or by P, is not something the DSM-IV is trying to describe.
also, if you have common cause P, but suffer from symptoms V W and X, you don't have ADD. because it's purely based on the symptoms.
on first sight, this may seem a bit silly. it's like treating all people with a stomach ache in exactly the same way, regardless of whether they have eaten something bad, are pregnant, constipated, have an infected colon or an alien growing inside of them.
but, it is designed like this, exactly
because we are unable to tell what is going on inside the brain/mind. that's why they came up with the DSM-IV system in the first place.
where it goes wrong, is when the psychologist or psychiatrist doesn't realize that this is a slightly different way of traditional medicine. it also goes wrong if the psychologist gets money for prescribing meds.
but do not blame the DSM-IV itself, it is an incredibly useful tool, if used in the right hands. my father is a neuropsychologist--and no he never diagnosed me--and he's one of the good guys. currently, he's helping people that have just learned they have a real bad disease (heart, cancer, amputation, you name it), and he uses the DSM-IV (among lots of other tests) o see if they're depressed or not, the cause of the depression is usually pretty obvious in these cases. then he treats them. i dunno how, exactly, he always gets kind of longwinded about his work if you ask too much details and he never really goes anywhere :-P
Quote from: triple zero on June 20, 2008, 07:00:32 PM
but do not blame the DSM-IV itself, it is an incredibly useful tool, if used in the right hands.
Agreed in full. I've just never met a doctor, and I've met alot of doctors, who used it as such. One of them, a very kind guy, was hesitant with what he was saying, even though he was the one who administered to me the Rorschach and the MMPI-A. I made another hour long appointment with him afterward so he could explain to me how the tests work, as psychology is of great interest to me(especially when it's my own brain), and while they're extraordinarily objective and scientific-y(and I scored way high on both tests for the same things), he stated that it really is all guesswork, even with tools like the ones he was using.
Of course(and very unfortunately) he was not a psychiatrist, he was a Ph.D. clinical psychologist. If more people like him went into psychiatry, it would be much better off. But I can't say I blame him. My declared major is still psychology, and I've been studying it on my own since the 6th grade, and I've never wanted to do psychiatry, I've always wanted to do therapy for awhile and eventually get a Ph.D. and do clinical psychology.
But yeah, I know how the DSM-IV has it's purpose, but I still hold a grudge against it for all the pain it's caused with with all of the medications I've been on(I've been on 19 in my life, and a good 16 of those were pure hell).
But I also laugh at it, because every time I think of it I think of what I read in a book a year or two ago. Apparently in the DSM-III, being gay was a disorder, and then in the DSM-IV, thinking that being gay is a disorder is a disorder. That could have been between II and III, I forget, but I'm fairly sure that's accurate.
heh, that IS funny :) but i still think, don't hold a grudge against DSM-IV, but hold it against the people that used it wrongly upon you.
Quote from: triple zero on June 20, 2008, 08:08:45 PM
heh, that IS funny :) but i still think, don't hold a grudge against DSM-IV, but hold it against the people that used it wrongly upon you.
Yep, labels and maps and models can be useful... its the humans that forget they're using labels, maps or models that make problems ;-)
ITT I learn that 000 and I have nearly identical mental quirks. Weird.
The DSM - IV is a joke, and its contents have more to do with politics than actual psychology.
Quote from: Requiem on June 21, 2008, 02:53:16 AM
The DSM - IV is a joke, and its contents have more to do with politics than actual psychology.
I had a conversation with a customer at work today about this, and she made a similar distinction, but hers was between
social and psychological/medical diagnoses. She talked for a good 15 minutes about the difference, and made many valid points. I don't remember most of them right now though because I've been drinking some DELICIOUS-ass beer.
I should specify I meant the internal politics of the medical community.
Oh I wasn't trying to tear away what you said, I haven't had enough time to consider her words enough yet. They were interesting though, just though I throw out that idea.
I mean, you might have wanted to clarify your point anyway, but yeah, just sayin.
Ok I'm drunk and I shouldn't be posting on PD
Mostly wanted to clarify, I wasn't sure from your post if I had made my point clear at all.
Quote from: Requiem on June 21, 2008, 03:39:15 AM
Mostly wanted to clarify, I wasn't sure from your post if I had made my point clear at all.
Oh no it made sense, I was just adding a similar yet slightly varied perspective I heard today.
The lady was walking around shopping for awhile in our small ass store where you can hear everything, and I was talking tyo a coworker about this thread, and she butted in at one point and just talked alot and said some interesting things I didn't expect to hear in my small-ish town.
Quote from: Requiem on June 21, 2008, 02:53:16 AM
The DSM - IV is a joke, and its contents have more to do with politics than actual psychology.
have you even understood what i wrote?
maybe the DSM-IV should have a big fat introduction telling people "what this book IS, and what it is NOT" (i dunno it might actually have this introduction already).
Hadn't read what you said, no, but having done so now, my point stands, the symptoms in the DSM -IV get decided on by people with a vested interest in the condition, and the connections to get on the commitee, and the people who are actively engaged in research on a condition are the *last* people I want making the final decision, a fucking layman at least won't be blinded by preconceptions and their career.
Of course, I also have preconceptions involved here, so maybe I'm just as blinded as to the end result.
Quote from: Requiem on June 21, 2008, 08:58:08 PM
Hadn't read what you said, no, but having done so now, my point stands, the symptoms in the DSM -IV get decided on by people with a vested interest in the condition, and the connections to get on the commitee, and the people who are actively engaged in research on a condition are the *last* people I want making the final decision, a fucking layman at least won't be blinded by preconceptions and their career.
Of course, I also have preconceptions involved here, so maybe I'm just as blinded as to the end result.
It's just another label.
Some people are misadjusted, and that's hardly surprising in today's world. If it makes people more comfortable to give these misadjustments medical sounding names and rationales, more power to 'em.
i can agree with that.
also, when used in the right hands, any kind of labelling can be useful. in my hands, for example, it allows me to easily find out how others have dealt with similar problems.
(even though i must admit the most similar person up to date came to me without labeling, by complete accident and to our mutual utter surprise--aint life grand (http://000.blackironprison.com/orange_grin.gif))
Quote from: triple zero on June 22, 2008, 04:08:57 PM
i can agree with that.
Who gives a fuck? I'm a
racist, remember? It's bad to agree with me.
nah not expected .. okay so "racist" was the wrong word, how do you call it then when someone keeps on throwing unfounded insults at random european countries (most notably, the french, the german and the dutch), i mean it wouldn't be half as annoying if the insults were actually funny or clever in some way. and you even seemed to be trying to make a point by saying "we even let the Germans in", as if letting Germans on our forum is something you would have otherwise generally frowned upon.
see normally i just ignore remarks like that, but after seeing it so many times and somehow used as a counterargument to what i was saying, i kinda grew tired of it.
btw, honest question. i've seen people who say bad things about mexicans being labeled as racists in or around these boards, how does that work? mexico is also a country, not a race, right?
Quote from: triple zero on June 22, 2008, 07:35:08 PM
nah not expected .. okay so "racist" was the wrong word, how do you call it then when someone keeps on throwing unfounded insults at random european countries (most notably, the french, the german and the dutch), i mean it wouldn't be half as annoying if the insults were actually funny or clever in some way. and you even seemed to be trying to make a point by saying "we even let the Germans in", as if letting Germans on our forum is something you would have otherwise generally frowned upon.
Were you hear when the Germans WERE here? Tao, EvT, The Cdr, Caramac, etc?
It had a direct bearing on the conversation. They were also fuckwads (Caramac drove off Velvet Jesus by stalking her and posting cyberporn to her), but at least they weren't as bad as Uncle BadTouch, the guy you were busy trying to protect.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 22, 2008, 07:43:07 PMQuote from: triple zero on June 22, 2008, 07:35:08 PMnah not expected .. okay so "racist" was the wrong word, how do you call it then when someone keeps on throwing unfounded insults at random european countries (most notably, the french, the german and the dutch), i mean it wouldn't be half as annoying if the insults were actually funny or clever in some way. and you even seemed to be trying to make a point by saying "we even let the Germans in", as if letting Germans on our forum is something you would have otherwise generally frowned upon.
Were you hear when the Germans WERE here? Tao, EvT, The Cdr, Caramac, etc?
It had a direct bearing on the conversation. They were also fuckwads (Caramac drove off Velvet Jesus by stalking her and posting cyberporn to her),
well that was kind of my point, because again you seem to imply that their being fuckwads has anything to do with them being German.
as you can see from the dutch/german memebomb thread, we currently have several Germans on this forum and they're not fuckwads.
Quotebut at least they weren't as bad as Uncle BadTouch, the guy you were busy trying to protect.
i should have been more clear about my reasons for responding in that thread, i wasn't trying to protect Uncle BadTouch, it was because it was the 3rd or 2nd time Uncle BadTouch got scolded for doing the exact same stuff we have been doing for OMGASM all the time.
and since the success of the OMGASM project pretty much completely hinges on the ability of any random person to join in and generate publicity for OMGASM at any moment, this random person seeing Uncle BadTouch get scolded for what is on first appearance no other reason than linking to 23ae [a site OMGASM uses a lot to promote its sub-projects] or even promoting OMGASM itself, is directly damaging to OMGASM, a project which i have myself invested quite a lot of time and resources in.
even if the post had said "it's okay to link to 23AE, it's just not okay for YOU to link to 23AE or even to simply scratch your nose because we hate your fucking guts" that would have been just
fine with me.
Quote from: triple zero on June 22, 2008, 07:56:39 PM
well that was kind of my point, because again you seem to imply that their being fuckwads has anything to do with them being German.
Google "german" + "porn".
Quote from: triple zero on June 22, 2008, 07:56:39 PM
i should have been more clear about my reasons for responding in that thread, i wasn't trying to protect Uncle BadTouch, it was because it was the 3rd or 2nd time Uncle BadTouch got scolded for doing the exact same stuff we have been doing for OMGASM all the time.
The rules are different for pedos.
Quote from: triple zero on June 22, 2008, 07:56:39 PM
and since the success of the OMGASM project pretty much completely hinges on the ability of any random person to join in and generate publicity for OMGASM at any moment, this random person seeing Uncle BadTouch get scolded for what is on first appearance no other reason than linking to 23ae [a site OMGASM uses a lot to promote its sub-projects] or even promoting OMGASM itself, is directly damaging to OMGASM, a project which i have myself invested quite a lot of time and resources in.
Well, a great way to promote your investment is to allow kiddie-touchers in.
Quote from: triple zero on June 22, 2008, 07:56:39 PM
even if the post had said "it's okay to link to 23AE, it's just not okay for YOU to link to 23AE or even to simply scratch your nose because we hate your fucking guts" that would have been just fine with me.
I think that was blatantly obvious. In fact, I never mentioned 23ae, or mentioned it in any way, which makes me wonder why you decided to shit all over me.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 22, 2008, 08:27:55 PM
Quote from: triple zero on June 22, 2008, 07:56:39 PMwell that was kind of my point, because again you seem to imply that their being fuckwads has anything to do with them being German.
Google "german" + "porn".
results: hardcore porn, pretty much the same stuff you get from "anything" + "porn" (except for "american" + "porn", which also has a few links to Abu Graib related articles in the results)
no really what is your point? they make porn in Germany?
tell me, what nation did the sick depraved idiots come from that
commissioned some poor brazilian girls to perform SWAP.AVI for a measly 350 bucks? oh that's right, they were from the US. .. so, even when i
try to take your xenophobia seriously it doesn't make sense.
as far as i can tell your reasoning goes like this
1. they make porn in Germany
2. therefore Germans are fuckwads
3. you
even let Germans onto this board, despite them being fuckwads for coming from a porn producing country
4. therefore, back in the days, PD.com was already participating in active outreach to other discordian communities (which was my statement which you were trying to disprove, after all)
i'm trying to understand. this doesn't make very much sense to me yet, so please point out what i'm missing here?
Quote from: TGRRIn fact, I never mentioned 23ae, or mentioned it in any way, which makes me wonder why you decided to shit all over me.
it was in the thread were RBoG scolded Uncle BadTouch for linking to 23ae. i commented on that, you felt the need to "counter" that response with a xenophobic insult to Germans. i called this racism, which was the wrong word, i admit ("xenophobic" seems to be more apt, from what you've shown).
but since this was hardly the first time you felt the need to shit on a european country for pretty much no sensible reason at all, i really kind of wonder what's up with that? because it's not really funny anymore after a while.
Quote from: triple zero on June 23, 2008, 12:25:31 PM
it was in the thread were RBoG scolded Uncle BadTouch for linking to 23ae. i commented on that, you felt the need to "counter" that response with a xenophobic insult to Germans. i called this racism, which was the wrong word, i admit ("xenophobic" seems to be more apt, from what you've shown).
Not really. I hate Americans, too.
But I really, really hate Germany.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 26, 2008, 01:27:46 AM
Quote from: triple zero on June 23, 2008, 12:25:31 PM
it was in the thread were RBoG scolded Uncle BadTouch for linking to 23ae. i commented on that, you felt the need to "counter" that response with a xenophobic insult to Germans. i called this racism, which was the wrong word, i admit ("xenophobic" seems to be more apt, from what you've shown).
Not really. I hate Americans, too.
But I really, really hate Germany.
DO NOT MOVE TO KANSAS!!!!!
Quote from: The Reverend Asshat on June 26, 2008, 01:50:58 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 26, 2008, 01:27:46 AM
Quote from: triple zero on June 23, 2008, 12:25:31 PM
it was in the thread were RBoG scolded Uncle BadTouch for linking to 23ae. i commented on that, you felt the need to "counter" that response with a xenophobic insult to Germans. i called this racism, which was the wrong word, i admit ("xenophobic" seems to be more apt, from what you've shown).
Not really. I hate Americans, too.
But I really, really hate Germany.
DO NOT MOVE TO KANSAS!!!!!
Kansas is like Germany, with evangelical Christians under every wet rock.
I like Bavaria.
But everyone else in Germany thinks Bavarians are wierd. Great food though.
Quote from: Cain on June 26, 2008, 01:23:25 PM
I like Bavaria.
But everyone else in Germany thinks Bavarians are wierd. Great food though.
Bavaria is okay. So is Prussia. They had kickass uniforms.
Never went to Prussia sadly. But Bavaria was fun. They also sell pork shoulder in their pubs, along with flagons of beer in steins, naturally.
Those two reasons are why Bavaria pwns anywhere else in Gerrmany.
My old man takes holidays every other year.
One day, I hope to join him.
3) illuminati
4) Hitlers tea house
You guys clearly need to visit Saxony.
"Sachsen, wo die schönen Frauen auf Bäumen wachsen." 'tis true.
And Barvarians are weird. Also, they are the fundie backwards assholes of Germany. And they speak funny. And they eat Weißwurst, which is fucking disgusting.
Quote from: Verbatim on June 27, 2008, 06:50:53 PM
You guys clearly need to visit Saxony.
"Sachsen, wo die schönen Frauen auf Bäumen wachsen." 'tis true.
And Barvarians are weird. Also, they are the fundie backwards assholes of Germany. And they speak funny. And they eat Weißwurst, which is fucking disgusting.
WHY DO YOU HATE GERMANS, YOU RACIST!?
:lulz:
Quote from: Payne on June 27, 2008, 06:54:57 PM
Quote from: Verbatim on June 27, 2008, 06:50:53 PM
You guys clearly need to visit Saxony.
"Sachsen, wo die schönen Frauen auf Bäumen wachsen." 'tis true.
And Barvarians are weird. Also, they are the fundie backwards assholes of Germany. And they speak funny. And they eat Weißwurst, which is fucking disgusting.
WHY DO YOU HATE GERMANS, YOU RACIST!?
:lulz:
I am also racist against Belgians. And the Dutch.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 28, 2008, 02:31:32 PM
Quote from: Payne on June 27, 2008, 06:54:57 PM
Quote from: Verbatim on June 27, 2008, 06:50:53 PM
You guys clearly need to visit Saxony.
"Sachsen, wo die schönen Frauen auf Bäumen wachsen." 'tis true.
And Barvarians are weird. Also, they are the fundie backwards assholes of Germany. And they speak funny. And they eat Weißwurst, which is fucking disgusting.
WHY DO YOU HATE GERMANS, YOU RACIST!?
:lulz:
I am also racist against Belgians. And the Dutch.
:x
NOT THE BELGIANS, TOO!
Quote from: Payne on June 28, 2008, 02:35:16 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 28, 2008, 02:31:32 PM
Quote from: Payne on June 27, 2008, 06:54:57 PM
Quote from: Verbatim on June 27, 2008, 06:50:53 PM
You guys clearly need to visit Saxony.
"Sachsen, wo die schönen Frauen auf Bäumen wachsen." 'tis true.
And Barvarians are weird. Also, they are the fundie backwards assholes of Germany. And they speak funny. And they eat Weißwurst, which is fucking disgusting.
WHY DO YOU HATE GERMANS, YOU RACIST!?
:lulz:
I am also racist against Belgians. And the Dutch.
:x
NOT THE BELGIANS, TOO!
Fucking wafflemonkeys. :argh!: