http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7475279.stm
The net's regulator Icann has proposed a complete overhaul of the way people navigate the internet.
They will vote to decide if the strict rules on so-called top level domain names, such as .com or .uk, can be relaxed.
The plans would allow firms to use their brands as web addresses while individuals could use their name.
Frankly, I'm shocked that I've never heard of Icann before.
I want princpiadiscordia.chaos or .eris.
i also want http://www.cnn.fnord
I always just assumed that anyone with their own server could use whatever suffix they wanted... I was planning to use .sol3 as a global domain, instead of having to do stuff by country or figure out whether something was government, education, or non-profit.
Quote from: Golden Applesauce on June 26, 2008, 11:57:29 PM
I always just assumed that anyone with their own server could use whatever suffix they wanted... I was planning to use .sol3 as a global domain, instead of having to do stuff by country or figure out whether something was government, education, or non-profit.
having your own (regular) server will just give you an IP-address to host things from.
to get a domain name you need to register one, which all "official" DNS-servers will then pick up, and anyone surfing to that domain name will then get redirected to the IP of your (regular) server.
technically, by hosting your own
DNS-server, you can use whatever suffix you want. there's services out there called openDNS or freeDNS or something that do this. they mostly host shady "free speech" stuff (being, tinfoil hatters, weird sexual fetishists and probably some genuine underground organisations).
the problem with hosting your own DNS-server is that its domain-name resolutions are not propagated by the global network of DNS-servers. when your computer connects to the internet, it usually fetches the default DNS-server that belongs to your ISP, and so your domains will go on the "regular" internet. in order to use custom DNSes you'd need to configure your computer to connect to an openDNS server when it cannot find the requested address on the regular DNS-server. (it's in your router or the internet settings somewhere)
did that make sense? [it's terribly complicated, but i try to explain these things as clear as possible]
I understood it. Would you have to configure for each individual server?
no it's something the client has to do.
so if i wanted to use freeDNS (i need to look up if it's actually called that btw), i'd have to configure my computer to look at an extra DNS server (the freeDNS one) next to my regular internet ISP DNS server.
then i could both surf the regular internet, and the "augmented" internet with extra suffixes. for all the servers that are there.
and remember, a DNS service is just a tool that translates domain-names to IP-addresses, so if you have the IP address of a server with a domain on freeDNS, you could also just access it directly via http://123.123.123.123/news/something.html. (sort of, they might/could block it, but that is quite trivial to circumvent)
but alternate DNS systems are not that interesting IMO, because it's just alternate domain-to-IP mappings. if you want to view the really weird stuff, check out what is on the TOR network, they have their own domain suffix called .onion (it works not quite the same as a custom DNS server, but as a client you use it in the same way) which are servers hosted completely anonymously on the TOR network, mostly WIKIs with loads and loads of tinfoil shit on it :) possibly also some real secret things there, cause if you only surf the TOR network itself (which is horribly slow), the anonymity is really quite good, afaik.
and also, because someone had to do it:
(http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/364/roflbotioaxuf9.jpg)
Oh yeah, I've been on Tor's private network before...I should probably look again actually, I haven't been recently, and lots of sites appear and disappear around there.
Quote from: triple zero on June 27, 2008, 12:12:21 PM
and also, because someone had to do it:
(http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/364/roflbotioaxuf9.jpg)
:lulz:
Quote from: triple zero on June 27, 2008, 12:12:21 PM
no it's something the client has to do.
so if i wanted to use freeDNS (i need to look up if it's actually called that btw), i'd have to configure my computer to look at an extra DNS server (the freeDNS one) next to my regular internet ISP DNS server.
then i could both surf the regular internet, and the "augmented" internet with extra suffixes. for all the servers that are there.
and remember, a DNS service is just a tool that translates domain-names to IP-addresses, so if you have the IP address of a server with a domain on freeDNS, you could also just access it directly via http://123.123.123.123/news/something.html. (sort of, they might/could block it, but that is quite trivial to circumvent)
but alternate DNS systems are not that interesting IMO, because it's just alternate domain-to-IP mappings. if you want to view the really weird stuff, check out what is on the TOR network, they have their own domain suffix called .onion (it works not quite the same as a custom DNS server, but as a client you use it in the same way) which are servers hosted completely anonymously on the TOR network, mostly WIKIs with loads and loads of tinfoil shit on it :) possibly also some real secret things there, cause if you only surf the TOR network itself (which is horribly slow), the anonymity is really quite good, afaik.
Ah, thank you.
Does this mean that the .xxx domain suffix is back on the table?
Quote from: Iason Ouabache on June 28, 2008, 06:08:55 AM
Does this mean that the .xxx domain suffix is back on the table?
yes.
(the article specifically mentions this, you might want to read it ;-) )
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7475986.stm
A complete overhaul of the way in which people navigate the internet has been given the go-ahead in Paris.
The net's regulator, Icann, voted unanimously to relax the strict rules on so-called "top-level" domain names, such as .com or .uk.
The decision means that companies could turn brands into web addresses, while individuals could use their names.
A second proposal, to introduce domain names written in Asian, Arabic or other scripts, was also approved.
"We are opening up a new world and I think this cannot be underestimated," said Roberto Gaetano, a member of the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (Icann).
The organisation said it had already been contacted about setting up domains in the Cyrillic script - used in many Eastern European countries.
"This is a huge step forward in the development of the internet - it will unblock something that has prevented a lot of people getting online," said Emily Taylor, director of legal and policy at Nominet, the national registry for .uk domain names.
"At the moment, there are one-and-a-half billion people online and four-and-a-half billion people for whom the Roman script just means nothing."
Dr Paul Twomey, chief executive of Icann, described passing the resolution as a "historic moment".
It's a stupid, idiotic money grab which runs a severe risk of overloading the 14 rot domain name servers and causing major problems. Also, it will suck and be horribly expensive for most companies, since they will have to buy their company name, and all variations thereof, for thousands of dollars each, from the ICANN. As I said, a money grab. http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/06/26/1814205 has some good comments. Will be $100,000 to $500,000 per TLD.
My heart bleeds for all those CEOs who will have to take home a reduced bonus in order to pay for this. Perhaps all of us on the minimum wage could organize a whip-around for our suffering proletariat brothers in the offices of Halliburton, Shell, Tesco, Wal-Mart and Microsoft?
my research indicates that for a one-time donation of $75, you can join the INTERNET SOCIETY (yes, that's what it's called) and vote on issues like this. They also publish a journal.
I am very interested.
I mean, wouldn't it be cool to be a card-carrying member of the INTERNET SOCIETY? Don't worry ma'am. I'm from the INTERNET SOCIETY.
(http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/4858/roflbotohvtkd3.jpg)
Quote from: PeregrineBF on June 30, 2008, 07:24:26 AM
It's a stupid, idiotic money grab which runs a severe risk of overloading the 14 rot domain name servers and causing major problems. Also, it will suck and be horribly expensive for most companies, since they will have to buy their company name, and all variations thereof, for thousands of dollars each, from the ICANN. As I said, a money grab. http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/06/26/1814205 has some good comments. Will be $100,000 to $500,000 per TLD.
TITCM
Remind me why I care about multinationals having to fork out tons of money for e-presence?
Quote from: Cain on June 30, 2008, 04:00:41 PM
Remind me why I care about multinationals having to fork out tons of money for e-presence?
Well, on the one hand I don't care about the money... but I do care about the Internet. This architecture was never designed for the data and traffic that it currently has... Opening up TLD's to just anything seems like a Black Swan Cluster Bomb, with lots of little blackswanlets that might lay around for a couple months until some 8 year old decides to play hackysack with one... But hey, its only the Internets, if something goes wrong we can just reboot it. :roll:
So, what you're saying is there is a small chance the internet will crash or something equally horrific and disruptive will happen?
Again, why am I meant to be against this?
Quote from: Cain on June 30, 2008, 04:10:21 PM
So, what you're saying is there is a small chance the internet will crash or something equally horrific and disruptive will happen?
Again, why am I meant to be against this?
I'm not against it, particularly... I just think that its a dumb idea that has little real value and introduces unnecessary complexity into an extremely complex system... in an area that was not designed to deal with such complexity.
In short, it makes my "OSHI! Engineering Senses" tingle ;-)
My only regret will be that I cannot live-blog the destruction of the internet, then email corporate executives laughing at their worthless purchases.
Quote from: Cain on June 30, 2008, 05:05:10 PM
My only regret will be that I cannot live-blog the destruction of the internet, then email corporate executives laughing at their worthless purchases.
:lulz:
I'm with zip. I want the domain http://cnn.fnord. Just IMAGINE!
No, the problem is that only large businesses will be able to get TLDs. Forcing even more massive corporations to exist. And, it's a dumb idea WRT DNS design.
How will it force more corporations to exist? You reallly think people are going to engage in buyouts and mergers simply so they can get a special domain website? When they can just grab a .com website and be done with it? :lol:
OH NOEZ, MY LOCAL SHOP DOESN'T HAVE A DOMAIN NAME, NOW I WILL HAVE TO UNITE ALL LOCAL SHOPKEEPERS INTO A HUGE CONGLOMERATE, JUST SO I HAZ WEB PRESENCE.
Quote from: PeregrineBF on June 30, 2008, 08:30:05 PM
And, it's a dumb idea WRT DNS design.
Yup. DNS is touchy enough without adding more nonsense.
(http://www.concretebadger.net/images/blog/youbroketheinternet.jpg)
Quote from: Cain on June 30, 2008, 08:34:59 PM
How will it force more corporations to exist? You reallly think people are going to engage in buyouts and mergers simply so they can get a special domain website? When they can just grab a .com website and be done with it? :lol:
OH NOEZ, MY LOCAL SHOP DOESN'T HAVE A DOMAIN NAME, NOW I WILL HAVE TO UNITE ALL LOCAL SHOPKEEPERS INTO A HUGE CONGLOMERATE, JUST SO I HAZ WEB PRESENCE.
But, that isn't true. Any sane company tries to buy all versions of their domain name, otherwise you end up with something like whitehouse.com (NSFW). The guy in the cube next to me is responsible for our Domain Names and we have dozens for each brand. Sure, part of it is a desire to maintain Brand name etc, but with the advent of phishing, its really to kill off potential theft of customers.
For example, www.Victoriassecret.online might look like a great site, it may have pictures of girls in panties, and pink backgrounds and a 40% discount e-coupon. All they need is a Credit Card number... heck, they'll even sign you up for an Angels card if you give them your SSN. Of course, the site is actually owned by some asshole in his Mom's basement.
We have to track this sort of shit down all the time NOW, and we only have a few TLD's to worry about.
Quote from: Professor Cramulus on June 30, 2008, 03:26:25 PM
I mean, wouldn't it be cool to be a card-carrying member of the INTERNET SOCIETY? Don't worry ma'am. I'm from the INTERNET SOCIETY.
:mittens:
also, PBF: don't worry it's just the internet. i don't care for large corporations grabbing money off eachother. like Cain said, if you wanna start an internet business, who cares what domain name you got exactly? whether i got himeo.bs at the bahamas or hime.obs from the nice people at the Official Benefit Society?
And how exactly does this impact on Grocery Store, my local shop? People copy big companies because they are well known and thus likely to attract more marks. My local grocery store, Chinese takeaway, kebab shop and pubs don't even have websites. And if they did, I'd doubt they'd get a hit a week.
Quote from: Cain on June 30, 2008, 09:25:18 PM
And how exactly does this impact on Grocery Store, my local shop? People copy big companies because they are well known and thus likely to attract more marks. My local grocery store, Chinese takeaway, kebab shop and pubs don't even have websites. And if they did, I'd doubt they'd get a hit a week.
Ebay? PayPal? Local Banks? Local city, or federal sites?
Does no one ever actually shop online in England? I had no idea that everyone made all of their purchases from local independent shoppes. :wink:
Yes, this change to Internet rules will only affect entities on the Internet.
Unless of course, the people that own those Mom and Pop shops use the Internet for banking or purchases or delivery logistics... or if their suppliers do...
Ebay and Paypal aren't multinational corporations? Local banks aren't members of huge international networks of finance?
Of course people shop online, but that wasn't my assertion. My assertion was that any scammers would target big companies, who I really don't give a shit about if they get screwed over by Icann, given how often they've screwed over their workforces, public and practically everyone else. Besides, wouldn't I then feel sorry for the people being scammed? The whole premise I take offense at is this is somehow some terrible burden for companies who give bloated pay packages to their management, treat their workforces like shit and make millions in profit every year. Stop shifting the goalposts.
Quote from: Cain on June 30, 2008, 10:09:30 PM
Ebay and Paypal aren't multinational corporations? Local banks aren't members of huge international networks of finance?
Of course people shop online, but that wasn't my assertion. My assertion was that any scammers would target big companies, who I really don't give a shit about if they get screwed over by Icann, given how often they've screwed over their workforces, public and practically everyone else. Besides, wouldn't I then feel sorry for the people being scammed? The whole premise I take offense at is this is somehow some terrible burden for companies who give bloated pay packages to their management, treat their workforces like shit and make millions in profit every year. Stop shifting the goalposts.
My concerns aren't so much the overhead or cost to big companies (though many smaller companies with a web presence will likely NOT invest the time and money, leaving yet more random humans to get screwed)... I figure thats the cost of doing business. My concerns are primarily related to the architecture of DNS, the overhead this may cause and the potential windfall for scammers, NO MATTER WHAT COMPANY THEY'RE IMITATING.
In the end, if Joe Blow gets fucked by www.VictoriasSecret.panties its not our fault, responsibility or anything... even the PR would be a tiny blip... but Joe, in trying to buy something nice for his wife, will be spending the next several months, maybe years, trying to get unfucked.
actually, ratatosk is making a good point. this is going to be a phishing nightmare.
My highschool used Edline, a net service where teachers could post grades/schedules/assignments online, mostly so parents could better track their kids' grades. Would have been better if more than 20% of the teachers had any clue how a computer worked.
Now, I'm pretty sure both these sites are owned by the same company:
http://www.edline.net
http://www.edline.com
but you see what I mean?
Yup. This will lead to small problems for large companies (they can eat a few million in losses easily), large problems for small companies, and massive problems for the average person. The internet is used in too much for it to be blown off as "just the internet." For some reason they started putting critical systems on the internet, like power plants. Bad design, but it means stuff like this could cause real problems, instead of just taking out some porn.
To my understanding, only registrars will be able to register new TLDs (right now to get www.variable.com, you have to get it fourthhand, ICANN sells to one party, who sells to a third, and at best, you can buy from that third party, if squatting is involved, there are even more middlemen), which means this hurts the big corporations the most, imagine having to buy every variation of wal mart from domain squatters who already had to pay someone who had to pay thousands of dollars to get ahold of the TLD.
On the other hand, this will be too expensive for domain squatting to be used against most small businesses, since they flat out can't afford to pay inflated prices.