It's Thursday today, so the Cult of Thursday's King is meeting. All the members are Happy today, because they have Hope today, because they have Faith today. They have Faith in their King, the King of Thursday, which they will have today !
So they meet this morning, and some of them giggle a bit, because they all Hope, each of them, that they themselves or friends of theirs in the Cult will be this Thursday's King so they can have everything they want out of all the members for the whole day.
So they pool their names, they put the little papers in the hat, and they are Happy, for it is their Ritual and it is full of Promises for each of them in all of their particular ways. They know they will all be King one Thursday, eventually, and that is the very Source of their Happiness and Hope and Faith.
So they rattle the hat, and the papers all dance. Rattle, rattle, little hat. The members have all Happy faces right now. And then the youngest able-bodied member covers his eyes with one hand, and reaches into the hat with the other. He picks a paper ! All the members around are holding their breath !
So they open the paper, and read the name thereupon: here is their new King, this Thursday's King ! And it happens to be George, a middle-aged plump man with a stiff upper lip. He is the King today !
Many members are disappointed, but they still have Faith, and Hope, while George proceeds to demand sexual gratifications from all the pretty female cult members. They still Hope, because they have Faith they will eventually be King, too.
Maybe next Thursday.
:mittens: :mittens: :mittens: :mittens: :mittens:
MY, that's warming enthusiasm, thank you :)
Maybe this is my gallows humor, but I was thinking you could amend it to, "And it happens to be George. Again. Just like last week, and the week before, and the week before that. A middle-aged plump man with a stiff upper lip..."
Kind of adds a dark tinge to it, but I feel it reflects a group mentality a bit better, and can also be a metaphor for our political system.
I like the more subtle approach of the "eventually" fallacy (MLM never dies), but maybe a less subtle way to ram that point is preferable, yes.
Well, ok, my edit is pretty blunt, but if you were trying to imply a rigged system, there's nothing in your piece to suggest so.
Ah, but no rigging is necessary at all, it's all neatly fucked up all by itself. Or are you suggesting it's really the rigging that makes it fucked up ?
I like it without the rigging... its kinda like America. Every few years people get really hopeful for the New Guy and he comes in, fiddles about and their hope is never really realized. Like the far right with Bush, his rallies back in 2000 were like revivals in some areas (including here... scary). "Speak oh Man Of God" was actually shouted. They had hope. Now, some people on the other side have Hope... it doesn't need the rigging, the system seems self sustaining.
The way the piece is set up is a completely randomized process where everyone has an equal chance of becoming King.
Whether or not this is even a good idea isn't really my point at this time.
In a completely randomized process, the Hope is justified, because they have an equal shot of King-ness as everyone else.
However, in a rigged system the Hope is completly bogus, and is used as a tool for the rigger to stay in power. The masses don't question the results, because they think it's completely random, and that they will someday have King-ness.
But they won't. The game is rigged, and they will always be exploited.
It feels weird I have to explain that.
And thus, there was no Enlightenment :sad:
What are you talking about?
Look, if you don't want constructive criticism, I'll just give you mittens and not comment, ok?
Quote from: LMNO on July 24, 2008, 03:36:23 PM
The way the piece is set up is a completely randomized process where everyone has an equal chance of becoming King.
Whether or not this is even a good idea isn't really my point at this time.
In a completely randomized process, the Hope is justified, because they have an equal shot of King-ness as everyone else.
However, in a rigged system the Hope is completly bogus, and is used as a tool for the rigger to stay in power. The masses don't question the results, because they think it's completely random, and that they will someday have King-ness.
But they won't. The game is rigged, and they will always be exploited.
It feels weird I have to explain that.
When I read this my train of thought saw two different possible points... no matter who got to be King, everyone else was sad that it wasn't them, because Their Ideas would be so much better than that other persons. On top of that, as I mentioned earlier, even in a non-rigged system, Hope in the bureaucracy is Fail, even if you (or your guy) gets to be king.
If the system is rigged, it implies that a non-rigged system would be better... but rigged or not rigged, the humans will still hope, they will flail when the winner isn't them and overall, they continue to hope in a process that says "One Monkey should be in charge of ALL" rather than "You are in Charge of You".
I just think it's more interesting to show that the Hope is justified and
yet they are doomed anyway.
QuoteThe game is rigged, and they will always be exploited.
But the rigging and the exploitation are not interdependent, which was the point all along. I want to avoid implying that there is any such interdependancy, so I judge I cannot afford to introduce any reason for the Hope to be bogus in the first place as it would undermine the whole piece. So your criticism is welcomed, but rejected.
Edit: Ratatosk was faster.
Quote from: Ratatosk on July 24, 2008, 03:52:50 PM
If the system is rigged, it implies that a non-rigged system would be better... but rigged or not rigged, the humans will still hope, they will flail when the winner isn't them and overall, they continue to hope in a process that says "One Monkey should be in charge of ALL" rather than "You are in Charge of You".
This is good.
:mittens:
I like it, but why do you put spaces in front of all your exclamation points?
Quote from: LMNO on July 24, 2008, 03:36:23 PM
The way the piece is set up is a completely randomized process where everyone has an equal chance of becoming King.
Whether or not this is even a good idea isn't really my point at this time.
In a completely randomized process, the Hope is justified, because they have an equal shot of King-ness as everyone else.
However, in a rigged system the Hope is completly bogus, and is used as a tool for the rigger to stay in power. The masses don't question the results, because they think it's completely random, and that they will someday have King-ness.
But they won't. The game is rigged, and they will always be exploited.
It feels weird I have to explain that.
The OP in interesting, but the above would take to the next level yanno? I like it though.
Quote from: LMNO on July 24, 2008, 03:43:59 PM
What are you talking about?
Look, if you don't want constructive criticism, I'll just give you mittens and not comment, ok?
Quote from: LMNO on July 24, 2008, 04:09:22 PM
:mittens:
:potd:
I really like it as it stands, because I was viewing it as a metaphor for the futility of our hamster-wheel society, not as a metaphor for politics.
However, I think that if it inspires someone to write a similar piece with a different gist, so much the better, especially if you write it instead of complain about it not having been written.
Quote from: Nigel on July 24, 2008, 06:38:22 PM
I really like it as it stands, because I was viewing it as a metaphor for the futility of our hamster-wheel society, not as a metaphor for politics.
However, I think that if it inspires someone to write a similar piece with a different gist, so much the better, especially if you write it instead of complain about it not having been written.
This is the correct Motorcycle... much like the multitude of BiP and Barstool interpretations. :)
Quote from: LMNO on July 24, 2008, 03:36:23 PM
The way the piece is set up is a completely randomized process where everyone has an equal chance of becoming King.
Whether or not this is even a good idea isn't really my point at this time.
In a completely randomized process, the Hope is justified, because they have an equal shot of King-ness as everyone else.
However, in a rigged system the Hope is completly bogus, and is used as a tool for the rigger to stay in power. The masses don't question the results, because they think it's completely random, and that they will someday have King-ness.
But they won't. The game is rigged, and they will always be exploited.
It feels weird I have to explain that.
I think you bring an important point. Hope is used by the system as a drug of content. I HOPE, therefore I don't have to scream. In this case Hope is nothing more than a meme used as an opiate. I prefer not to hope because that would deny my intelligence. I know nothing will change and I'm not going to shit my diapers when it doesn't. This also brings the implication that the kings are made, which they are. Does anyone actually believe anyone that doesn't have the Official Stamp of Approval™ of the Kingmakers will ever be allowed to wear the Hallowed Crown? I shit my reality all over your hope.
Quote from: LMNO on July 24, 2008, 03:36:23 PM
The way the piece is set up is a completely randomized process where everyone has an equal chance of becoming King.
Whether or not this is even a good idea isn't really my point at this time.
In a completely randomized process, the Hope is justified, because they have an equal shot of King-ness as everyone else.
However, in a rigged system the Hope is completly bogus, and is used as a tool for the rigger to stay in power. The masses don't question the results, because they think it's completely random, and that they will someday have King-ness.
But they won't. The game is rigged, and they will always be exploited.
It feels weird I have to explain that.
The Hope for Power is justified but the Hope for Salvation(the hope of improving the world) is bogus whenever you hope for others to do it.
at least thats what i got out of it.
Quote from: LMNO on July 24, 2008, 03:36:23 PM
It feels weird I have to explain that.
You don't have to explain anything :P but you did anyways...
QuoteLook, if you don't want constructive criticism, I'll just give you mittens and not comment, ok?
This piece of literature, "Yet another Thursday" is art... right.
The best thing about art is watching the reactions to it. It appears to me that you're getting pretty worked up over this, and thus contributing to the experience. I'm curious to know what you expected form him?
meh... my point is, calm the fuck down and stop getting offended over the fact that the guy never responded to you the way you expected him to... or not... WHATEVER.
And thus there was some Enlightenment :)
Quote from: Jesrad on July 28, 2008, 11:04:19 AM
And thus there was some Enlightenment :)
With every parable there appears to be some enlightenment in some sense ;-)
Quote from: LMNO on July 24, 2008, 03:36:23 PM
The way the piece is set up is a completely randomized process where everyone has an equal chance of becoming King.
Whether or not this is even a good idea isn't really my point at this time.
In a completely randomized process, the Hope is justified, because they have an equal shot of King-ness as everyone else.
However, in a rigged system the Hope is completly bogus, and is used as a tool for the rigger to stay in power. The masses don't question the results, because they think it's completely random, and that they will someday have King-ness.
But they won't. The game is rigged, and they will always be exploited.
It feels weird I have to explain that.
OP, I liked your story.
As far as the argument of the 'piece' being set-up to be completely random, I'd like to disagree. There's no way that this system would be either completely random or completely rigged.
In the case of it being completely random, that's almost impossible, because SOMEONE has to draw names out of the hat. Maybe they got a quick peek inside and were able to make out the names. Maybe when the little name cards were being made they were made a different size or even a different shape. Who knows? Would the SAME person draw out the cards every time? And damnit, who does the hat belong to?
And on the flip side, on the appointment of the King of Thursday being rigged, well, that's almost impossible too. You can never have COMPLETE control of a system, just like you can never make something completely water-proof. Especially in terms of human relations, like voting or drawing names out of a hat, because there are way too many people like us, the kind of people who make up fake names to put in the hat, the kind of people to tell the King of Thursday to go fuck a fire hydrant, the kind of people who decide to straight up shit inside this Kingly headgear.
All I'm saying is that the 'system' is always going to be a little random, and it's going to be a little rigged. You might not have a very big piece of paper and you may not know the person pulling names outta the hat. But even if your chance is way smaller than others, you still have a chance. Hope is only bogus if Hope is all you have. You always need a little push to make Hope happen.
It's very grey here today.
Quote from: Pieces on July 30, 2008, 08:24:02 PM
Quote from: LMNO on July 24, 2008, 03:36:23 PM
The way the piece is set up is a completely randomized process where everyone has an equal chance of becoming King.
Whether or not this is even a good idea isn't really my point at this time.
In a completely randomized process, the Hope is justified, because they have an equal shot of King-ness as everyone else.
However, in a rigged system the Hope is completly bogus, and is used as a tool for the rigger to stay in power. The masses don't question the results, because they think it's completely random, and that they will someday have King-ness.
But they won't. The game is rigged, and they will always be exploited.
It feels weird I have to explain that.
OP, I liked your story.
As far as the argument of the 'piece' being set-up to be completely random, I'd like to disagree. There's no way that this system would be either completely random or completely rigged.
In the case of it being completely random, that's almost impossible, because SOMEONE has to draw names out of the hat. Maybe they got a quick peek inside and were able to make out the names. Maybe when the little name cards were being made they were made a different size or even a different shape. Who knows? Would the SAME person draw out the cards every time? And damnit, who does the hat belong to?
And on the flip side, on the appointment of the King of Thursday being rigged, well, that's almost impossible too. You can never have COMPLETE control of a system, just like you can never make something completely water-proof. Especially in terms of human relations, like voting or drawing names out of a hat, because there are way too many people like us, the kind of people who make up fake names to put in the hat, the kind of people to tell the King of Thursday to go fuck a fire hydrant, the kind of people who decide to straight up shit inside this Kingly headgear.
All I'm saying is that the 'system' is always going to be a little random, and it's going to be a little rigged. You might not have a very big piece of paper and you may not know the person pulling names outta the hat. But even if your chance is way smaller than others, you still have a chance. Hope is only bogus if Hope is all you have. You always need a little push to make Hope happen.
It's very grey here today.
It may be rigged or not rigged... but the people seem to be falling for two major CoN's.
A) If they were King things would be better
and
B) A King is necessary for their Hope to be realized.
It's like Mr. Obama, sure he has the audacity of hope, he's inspiring people all over the country to say Yes We Can. However, the people have ALWAYS had the power to bring about change, maybe not stop the War or give everyone Universal Healthcare, but YES THEY COULD HAVE done a lot of stuff to improve the world around them without the government, without a charismatic leader and without 'HOPE'.
People don't need someone to give them hope... they need to get off their asses and DO something. here is a car in my neighborhood that is plastered with liberal bumper stickers, a number of which scream about the Environment and Global Warming and how much of an asshole Bush is. The other conspicuous aspect of this vehicle is the black smoke of burning oil which has poured from its exhaust ever since I've seen the car around. They may have hope for the Obamanation.... but they could, instead (or along with) go get the seals replaced on their vehicle. People like that remind me of the Thursdayists. They have hope that SOMEONE will be in charge to fix the problems, so they focus on elections and politics and yelling about this bastard and that bastard and meanwhile they're driving a gas guzzler that burns oil.
The same seems true of many programs that everyone HOPES their candidate will bring to the government. Some Conservatives think that charities and private groups should be caring for the needy, rather than the government caring for them... but, they're not out there DOING it. They just say it and HOPE the next King will wave a magic wand and make it true. I am reminded of the situation in NOLA when the hurricane hit. The people had HOPE that their local, State and Federal governments would take care of them... so most of them didn't bother to take care of themselves. They were carrying televisions, and belongings into the Superdome, but not water or food. It was public knowledge that the Levees might not withstand a Cat 5 hurricane, but most of these people weren't even prepared with a couple jugs of water, just in case they might need it.
Hope, often seems to me like Faith. Its a way for some to fool their brain into thinking that they're DOING something (like cheering on a Obama rally) without actually DOING anything (like getting their car fixed).
Quote from: LMNO on July 24, 2008, 03:36:23 PM
It may be rigged or not rigged... but the people seem to be falling for two major CoN's.
A) If they were King things would be better
and
B) A King is necessary for their Hope to be realized.
It's like Mr. Obama, sure he has the audacity of hope, he's inspiring people all over the country to say Yes We Can. However, the people have ALWAYS had the power to bring about change, maybe not stop the War or give everyone Universal Healthcare, but YES THEY COULD HAVE done a lot of stuff to improve the world around them without the government, without a charismatic leader and without 'HOPE'.
People don't need someone to give them hope... they need to get off their asses and DO something. here is a car in my neighborhood that is plastered with liberal bumper stickers, a number of which scream about the Environment and Global Warming and how much of an asshole Bush is. The other conspicuous aspect of this vehicle is the black smoke of burning oil which has poured from its exhaust ever since I've seen the car around. They may have hope for the Obamanation.... but they could, instead (or along with) go get the seals replaced on their vehicle. People like that remind me of the Thursdayists. They have hope that SOMEONE will be in charge to fix the problems, so they focus on elections and politics and yelling about this bastard and that bastard and meanwhile they're driving a gas guzzler that burns oil.
The same seems true of many programs that everyone HOPES their candidate will bring to the government. Some Conservatives think that charities and private groups should be caring for the needy, rather than the government caring for them... but, they're not out there DOING it. They just say it and HOPE the next King will wave a magic wand and make it true. I am reminded of the situation in NOLA when the hurricane hit. The people had HOPE that their local, State and Federal governments would take care of them... so most of them didn't bother to take care of themselves. They were carrying televisions, and belongings into the Superdome, but not water or food. It was public knowledge that the Levees might not withstand a Cat 5 hurricane, but most of these people weren't even prepared with a couple jugs of water, just in case they might need it.
Hope, often seems to me like Faith. Its a way for some to fool their brain into thinking that they're DOING something (like cheering on a Obama rally) without actually DOING anything (like getting their car fixed).
You're right, I can't really argue with that. I'd love to tell you that people are willing to do some WORK to make HOPE happen, but that isn't how it works at all. In reality, like you said, people want a magic King to bring his wand and make all the bad go away.
But, there's no magic wand. And I have a feeling there is going to be a lot of disappointed people if Obama wins...
"Alright people, I'm now the president! Let's get to work and make this country a better place for everyone!!!"
"....Pardon me? Isn't that YOUR job? I'M trying to make enough money to buy myself the luxury of severely reducing my contact with other human beings. Or at least that's what I'm HOPING for. Go Powerball!!!"
Fuck, man... get your quote-fu right.
For a second there, I thought, "what the hell happened to my writing style, and why the hell would I say that?"
Quote from: LMNO on July 31, 2008, 02:58:05 PM
Fuck, man... get your quote-fu right.
For a second there, I thought, "what the hell happened to my writing style, and why the hell would I say that?"
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
... I think...
Quote from: LMNO on July 31, 2008, 02:58:05 PM
Fuck, man... get your quote-fu right.
For a second there, I thought, "what the hell happened to my writing style, and why the hell would I say that?"
My quote-fu is weak. That's why I'm here.
This grasshopper needs practice.....