Be they aliens or older forms of life (or just other than us)...does anyone here believe that these forms of life exist?
Has anyone ever gotten 'vibes' (please bahave! lol) from a seemingly normal person on the street? Has anyone ever encountered what I call a 'shadow', an obvious presence which ypu can almostr see but very much sense, which causes you to feel irrational fear? Try to reply seriously please folks ( i know it's hard but it can be done :evil:)...I'm interested in hearing other people's stories...
Quote from: Lupernikes_shadowbark on September 01, 2008, 10:45:52 AMBe they aliens or older forms of life (or just other than us)...does anyone here believe that these forms of life exist?
maybe, maybe not, depends on what you mean by "exist", if they really exist.
QuoteHas anyone ever gotten 'vibes' (please bahave! lol) from a seemingly normal person on the street? Has anyone ever encountered what I call a 'shadow', an obvious presence which ypu can almostr see but very much sense, which causes you to feel irrational fear? Try to reply seriously please folks ( i know it's hard but it can be done :evil:)...I'm interested in hearing other people's stories...
can't say i have. if that kind of stuff is real, one thing's for sure, i'm damned unsensitive to it. and believe me, i've tried.
although i did once see a girl with bright red eyes (the iris, instead of blue green or brown), but i already walked on and had to catch my bus, so i never got a good second look, so it might as well have been imagined or a trick of the light or something.
Or really cool contact lenses.
I'm pretty sure aliens exist, though I have my doubts about both their intelligence and their engineering and piloting abilities if they come here simply to do anonymous midnight anal examinations, mutiliate livestock and crash in the desert all the time. So yeah, I'm pretty sure there is intelligent, or even unintelligent life somewhere in the Universe (note the lack of an "else" in that sentence), I just don't suspect it is flying around our atmosphere sexually molesting people.
As for ultraterrestrials, other dimensions etc....I don't speculate. I simply don't have enough knowledge about such things to consider them in any reasonable terms.
I was less convinced until the wife woke me up one night as she could hear something on the stairs outside. I then sensed something I have 'felt' before now; ie recognised. Funny thing is, although i could sense it I couldn't hear anything but she could.
I call them shadows though, not demons as demon is such a judeo-christian thing and I'm not going with that....perhaps another form of life which shares some of our set of dimensions sometimes.
i very regularly think i see movement or even just a shape, wherever, whether im sitting still or moving myself, alone or with others, that i would swear if only for an instant is a person or something else. Sometimes i can figure out what it was (light, shadow, reflection, mannequin, pile of rubbish, anything), often i never know. sometimes i get really jumpy.
i tend to think it's most likely that there are other life-forms besides whatever evolved on earth in the sense that we understand. it seems to me almost unquestionable that there would be similar planets where lifeforms we could comprehend would have evolved like we did, but im very skeptical/agnostic about other kinds, that may interact with us here, like spirits/angels/transdimensional beings/whatever. All that shit seems to me to exist to some people because their reality is different that way. Fear personifies itself in the human mind. The best way i could make sense of it is to say these things are metaphorical: some old catholic might say the man is 'possessed', whereas i would describe him as 'schizophrenic' (who am i to say a demonic possession doesnt exist? enough engrams in your thetan would make anyone go mad :roll:); feng shui may bring spiritual harmony to a room, or it might just be more comfortable and pleasant to sit in a room that isn't full of piles of junk; you might feel someones 'vibe', or you might just see the look in their eyes, the way they hold themselves, hear the way they talk. It's natural to repel something that's a bit different, especially if it's a difference you can't quite put your finger on.
You can get a lot of information without realising it. A practical infinity of signals hit you in the head every second, you can be sure you pick up some info without quite knowing where it came from.
Quote from: Lupernikes_shadowbark on September 01, 2008, 02:34:00 PM
I was less convinced until the wife woke me up one night as she could hear something on the stairs outside. I then sensed something I have 'felt' before now; ie recognised. Funny thing is, although i could sense it I couldn't hear anything but she could.
I call them shadows though, not demons as demon is such a judeo-christian thing and I'm not going with that....perhaps another form of life which shares some of our set of dimensions sometimes.
I suspect having that sort of experience would change your mind, or at least force you to reconsider some key asumptions...I've never had such an event happen personally though, so I can remain coolly skeptical with the benefit of being personally removed from such situations.
I'm also hesistant to name possible causes...one of the few researchers of High Wierdness that I admire, Jacques Vallee, often takes this stance with his UFO investigations. He admits something is going on, and its freaky as fuck for the people involved, but whatever that may be, he has a hard time finding out what it is. In his own investigations, he maintains a notable skepticism towards the alien hypothesis for UFOs, looking more towards earthbound, social and perhaps cultural reasons behind them, suggesting that whatever is happening is merely a modern manifestation of a much older phenomenon. He also takes care to seperate physical facts in such cases (usually little to nonexistent and inconclusive) with conjecture and possible origins.
Its essentially the law of fives. Something freaky and odd happens, and your mind may grab a suitable model to help frame that event in an intelligible manner. Culture, personal experience, social status and so on probably feed the potential models for your brain to use and what you may see or reason that it is may not in fact be the original cause. The freakiness happened, sure (except in the cases someone faked it to make a buck), but your (generally you, not just you personally) interpretation may be dead wrong.
I cannot describe how I occassionaly see things other than as a disturbance in the air, sort of like grey shadows, except it's not grey, more of a colourless colour made of many colours outside of the normal spectrum which is normally visible to us. Makes very little sense I know! If you think of the thing in Donnie Darko, that's the kind of colourless colour I'm talking about, sort of.
My belief is other beings, intelligent and aware of us too, sometimes. The Christians called them demons because anything else would go against the Creation Myth. The Greeks, at least, had the Gods and Titans...for Christians, anything not mentioned as made by God in the Bible must be a demon and the very natural human fear of something which feels so different to us adds credence to that. I used to think some of these beings were evil but now I believe it's more a feeling of complete difference I sense rather than evil. Something which is not human scares the bejeezus out of anyone who is....the thought of an intelligent being who can see you and whom you know nothing about is scary, obviously. So of course early humans would call these beings demons and so forth. I even once saw an amimal I've yet been unable to identify in all the intervening years and this was back when I was 7!
As the Bard so eloquently put it "There are more things in heaven and Earth..." (maybe he was taking something ok, but still...)
Quote from: bones on September 01, 2008, 02:54:16 PM
All that shit seems to me to exist to some people because their reality is different that way. Fear personifies itself in the human mind.
our brain has developed to recognize shapes in what is nothing threatening or out of the ordinary. Especially if it is in the corner of ones eye
It will take the seemingly incomplete info and form it to whatever it may think is threatening. A sort of flight response to very little data
I suspect 99 percent of all creepy feelings or supposed supernatural experiences are nothing more then brain juice being protective (what Cain just said)
...that or 3rd dimensional shape shifting lizard alien agents
Quote from: Cain on September 01, 2008, 03:04:12 PM
Quote from: Lupernikes_shadowbark on September 01, 2008, 02:34:00 PM
I was less convinced until the wife woke me up one night as she could hear something on the stairs outside. I then sensed something I have 'felt' before now; ie recognised. Funny thing is, although i could sense it I couldn't hear anything but she could.
I call them shadows though, not demons as demon is such a judeo-christian thing and I'm not going with that....perhaps another form of life which shares some of our set of dimensions sometimes.
I suspect having that sort of experience would change your mind, or at least force you to reconsider some key asumptions...I've never had such an event happen personally though, so I can remain coolly skeptical with the benefit of being personally removed from such situations.
I'm also hesistant to name possible causes...one of the few researchers of High Wierdness that I admire, Jacques Vallee, often takes this stance with his UFO investigations. He admits something is going on, and its freaky as fuck for the people involved, but whatever that may be, he has a hard time finding out what it is. In his own investigations, he maintains a notable skepticism towards the alien hypothesis for UFOs, looking more towards earthbound, social and perhaps cultural reasons behind them, suggesting that whatever is happening is merely a modern manifestation of a much older phenomenon. He also takes care to seperate physical facts in such cases (usually little to nonexistent and inconclusive) with conjecture and possible origins.
Its essentially the law of fives. Something freaky and odd happens, and your mind may grab a suitable model to help frame that event in an intelligible manner. Culture, personal experience, social status and so on probably feed the potential models for your brain to use and what you may see or reason that it is may not in fact be the original cause. The freakiness happened, sure (except in the cases someone faked it to make a buck), but your (generally you, not just you personally) interpretation may be dead wrong.
that is of course a possibility Cain but I remain unconvinced by that mate...I don't know what the answer is, nor can I give you credible alternatives either. can't say I'm for sure right or you're wrong either lol
Have you ever read John Dies at the End?
http://www.johndiesattheend.com/
Quote from: Cain on September 01, 2008, 02:21:54 PM
Or really cool contact lenses.
thats what i thought. along with "i want some of those", but googling around a bit for special contacts reveals that they're 1) fucking expensive and 2) unable to actually make your eye brighter than it already is.
Quote from: Lupernikes_shadowbark on September 01, 2008, 03:08:02 PMa colourless colour made of many colours outside of the normal spectrum which is normally visible to us. Makes very little sense I know!
especially if you consider how your eyes work and in what way they perceive colour. do you know how the eye works? if yes, then why do you say the thing you perceived is made up of light outside the visible spectrum?
Quote from: triple zero on September 01, 2008, 02:04:09 PM
although i did once see a girl with bright red eyes (the iris, instead of blue green or brown), but i already walked on and had to catch my bus, so i never got a good second look, so it might as well have been imagined or a trick of the light or something.
Photoshopped.
Quote from: triple zero on September 01, 2008, 03:23:45 PM
thats what i thought. along with "i want some of those", but googling around a bit for special contacts reveals that they're 1) fucking expensive and 2) unable to actually make your eye brighter than it already is.
Use MSPaint.
Quote from: triple zero on September 01, 2008, 03:23:45 PM
Quote from: Cain on September 01, 2008, 02:21:54 PM
Or really cool contact lenses.
thats what i thought. along with "i want some of those", but googling around a bit for special contacts reveals that they're 1) fucking expensive and 2) unable to actually make your eye brighter than it already is.
Quote from: Lupernikes_shadowbark on September 01, 2008, 03:08:02 PMa colourless colour made of many colours outside of the normal spectrum which is normally visible to us. Makes very little sense I know!
especially if you consider how your eyes work and in what way they perceive colour. do you know how the eye works? if yes, then why do you say the thing you perceived is made up of light outside the visible spectrum?
not being facetious or anything mate, it's just trying to describe what is hard to describe so other people can visualise it.....I have no idea what we're capable of perceiving or being aware of, just what the concensus decides is 'normal'
"The eye cannot see the eye." I dunno who said that?
How the Mind Works by Stephen Pinker has some great stuff bout how the eye really does work. Amazing & fascinating.
I've has some stuff happen to me that I really can't explain? I hope there's sentient life elsewhere. Hell I hope there's sentient life here :)
Red
Green
Blue
Some processes interfere (sometimes enhance) with other processes. Automatic processes can interfere, for example (Stroop effect)
Quote from: Lupernikes_shadowbark on September 01, 2008, 03:38:24 PMnot being facetious or anything mate, it's just trying to describe what is hard to describe so other people can visualise it.....I have no idea what we're capable of perceiving or being aware of, just what the concensus decides is 'normal'
then it would kinda help if you would describe your experiences in terms that you
know they are (1), so that we don't have to correct you on what we are certain that they are
not (2) in order to have any kind of sensible discussion.
(1) you know you saw, felt and interpreted something.
(2) you were not perceiving "light outside the physical spectrum". there's no reason to assume this, except "it might be cool if it was", but your eyes simply aren't capable of that, and even if they were*, it would register as an excitation of one of the blue, green or red cones in the eye, and therefore appear to your mind as made of some perfectly normal colour, nothing of the ethereal "colourless colour" you describe. conclusion: it's gotta be something else, but not light outside of the visible spectrum.
* for instance, the eye is slightly capable of registering infra-red light frequencies, though they are very faint and therefore usually drowned out by the other light present. in some situations it isn't (http://amasci.com/amateur/irgoggl.html), and you can vaguely make out infra-red frequencies. because they register on mostly the red cones in your eye, to the mind they simply appear as some vague reddish glow. same kind of holds for ultra-violet light, which you can perceive under certain circumstances (night clubs with UV lamps).
Quote from: Risus on September 01, 2008, 03:15:51 PM
Have you ever read John Dies at the End?
http://www.johndiesattheend.com/
fuck yeah. another JDatE fan.
best short story on the internet.
Quote from: Lupernikes_shadowbark on September 01, 2008, 10:45:52 AM
Be they aliens or older forms of life (or just other than us)...does anyone here believe that these forms of life exist?
Has anyone ever gotten 'vibes' (please bahave! lol) from a seemingly normal person on the street? Has anyone ever encountered what I call a 'shadow', an obvious presence which ypu can almostr see but very much sense, which causes you to feel irrational fear? Try to reply seriously please folks ( i know it's hard but it can be done :evil:)...I'm interested in hearing other people's stories...
Yes, I have done that.
Then the peyote wears off.
What crap.
Fuck you Roger, I'm an Alien, Worship me.
Quote from: East Coast Hustle on September 02, 2008, 04:08:28 AM
Quote from: Risus on September 01, 2008, 03:15:51 PM
Have you ever read John Dies at the End?
http://www.johndiesattheend.com/
fuck yeah. another JDatE fan.
best short story on the internet.
I still have that bookmarked, but not yet read.
Regarding OP:
Insufficient Information. No Conclusion Reached.
Weird Shit remains Weird Shit; no model suitable at this time.
It's Interstellar Monkeys flinging their poo.
Someday the asstrophysicists will discover that the dark matter is really universal poo emanating from black holes.
Quote from: triple zero on September 02, 2008, 12:15:30 AM
Quote from: Lupernikes_shadowbark on September 01, 2008, 03:38:24 PMnot being facetious or anything mate, it's just trying to describe what is hard to describe so other people can visualise it.....I have no idea what we're capable of perceiving or being aware of, just what the concensus decides is 'normal'
then it would kinda help if you would describe your experiences in terms that you know they are (1), so that we don't have to correct you on what we are certain that they are not (2) in order to have any kind of sensible discussion.
(1) you know you saw, felt and interpreted something.
I have several times in my life but it's often kind of like trying to describe the taste of strawberries to someone who has never even seen a strawberry, let alone tasted one.
(2) you were not perceiving "light outside the physical spectrum". there's no reason to assume this, except "it might be cool if it was", but your eyes simply aren't capable of that, and even if they were*, it would register as an excitation of one of the blue, green or red cones in the eye, and therefore appear to your mind as made of some perfectly normal colour, nothing of the ethereal "colourless colour" you describe. conclusion: it's gotta be something else, but not light outside of the visible spectrum.
oh yes of course, I accept that many of the things we describe or have had described to use as "magic" or "supernatural" have in fact perfectly natural and scientific (though as yet undiscovered/proven by science) explainations. I like some of the explainations posited by Anne Rice actually, though I'm not sure I agree with all of them obviously. WE humans have more senses than the accepted 5. We have an inbuilt sense of time for example. Some of us may have an inbuilt sense of direction and location (possibly left over magnetic sense like that of some animals). In short we have, I think, two thirds of our brain which we do not use. It's possible that some people do, for whatever reason, use some of these 'switched off' parts, or everyone does and simply do not realise or ignore it. Maybe some people are genetic 'sports' or throwbacks. Whatever the reason etc, I do firmly believe that science cannot yet explain all that exists on the earth but also believe that we don't need to wait for science to do that for us, we've become too in awe of science in the last couple of hundred years and lost our connection with the world around us. Instead of trying to explain the possibility of 'other' life around us, we need to accept it as a part of nature and admit that there is a great deal we don't know about yet.
* for instance, the eye is slightly capable of registering infra-red light frequencies, though they are very faint and therefore usually drowned out by the other light present. in some situations it isn't (http://amasci.com/amateur/irgoggl.html), and you can vaguely make out infra-red frequencies. because they register on mostly the red cones in your eye, to the mind they simply appear as some vague reddish glow. same kind of holds for ultra-violet light, which you can perceive under certain circumstances (night clubs with UV lamps).
oddly enough my wife suggested the same to me once. I have exhibited a talent for always knowing where my dog is at night, in the dark of the woods where I walk him. The dog is black, I have to mention. I can
sometimes see what could be an envelope of heat or trail of heat coming off of him (kind of like a 3-dimensional ship's wake streaming behind him). Using this i always know where he is. Oddly though, I have only detected humans this way very rarely. Maybe I am a throwback myself and have subtle physical differences..who knows and I'm not letting some scientist find out either!! hence the joke in my username...i look slighly lupine and can see in the dark! lol
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 02, 2008, 05:21:22 AM
Quote from: Lupernikes_shadowbark on September 01, 2008, 10:45:52 AM
Be they aliens or older forms of life (or just other than us)...does anyone here believe that these forms of life exist?
Has anyone ever gotten 'vibes' (please bahave! lol) from a seemingly normal person on the street? Has anyone ever encountered what I call a 'shadow', an obvious presence which ypu can almostr see but very much sense, which causes you to feel irrational fear? Try to reply seriously please folks ( i know it's hard but it can be done :evil:)...I'm interested in hearing other people's stories...
Yes, I have done that.
Then the peyote wears off.
What crap.
you know that peyote is used by many cultures as a doorway to other experiences?
you can of course insert a disc up yer hole with a pointy stick should enlightenment continue to escape you Roger :wink:
Quote from: Lupernikes_shadowbark on September 03, 2008, 08:36:44 AM
you know that peyote is used by many cultures as a doorway to other experiences?
HOW COULD ANYONE POSSIBLY KNOW THAT
YOU ARE EXPECTING FAR TOO MUCH.
maybe I am or maybe I am not but I'm still one of the few discordians who seeks nonassisted enlightenment; I drink rarely and take drugs (excepting the non prescription variety and cigarettes, which I'm trying to quit right now) not at all...least I can't blame the drugs eh? :lol:
i'd blame it on the lack of them, myself
now there's a point of view I've never heard before! Lack of drugs fuck you up!!!
hahahhahaha :lulz:
always good to hear a new perspective
tis indeed, know any good rehab centres I can check into?
My name is ___ and I'm a reality addict!
any denomination of christian church should have the goods for ya.
put your supply of reality away somewhere safe, where you can't get at it
:lulz:
that's excellently put!!
A pharmacology prof I know always says "Reality is for people who can't deal with drugs"
Aliens, gods, demons... all plant (or chemical-)based, imo :mrgreen:
Well, extraterrestical life forms exist for sure, but it's highly improbable that they are intelligent and able enough to get here... and let us be honest: why the hell should they???
Quote from: Lilith on September 06, 2008, 09:50:45 PM
A pharmacology prof I know always says "Reality is for people who can't deal with drugs"
Aliens, gods, demons... all plant (or chemical-)based, imo :mrgreen:
Well, extraterrestical life forms exist for sure, but it's highly improbable that they are intelligent and able enough to get here... and let us be honest: why the hell should they???
I question whether we will ever find aliens that are comprehensible to us. Intelligent, perhaps, but a fundamentally, well,
alien intelligence.
my point entirely, about the sense I get from the entities I have encountered....it ain't going to be like Star Trek where the only thing different between them and us is foreheads or ears! To think Nature was uncreative enough to fill the universe, even the galaxy with minor variations upon a theme.. *sigh*
so maybe aliens, maybe bad reality trip (heeeeeavy on irony there), maybe lor' knows what....but hey, thanks for the feedback guys (Except Roger of course, you were about as helpful as a match in space *wink*)
I often get the sense that there is utterly no world beyond the observable, that there are no supernatural entities, nothing paranormal in the least. It's hard to describe - it's like hearing a sound, but without tone or pitch, the kind of sound that you feel as vibrations in the organs less firmly tied down. Only without vibrations, just... stillness. The feelingness of being utterly alone, with only a handful of tailless apes on a rock ball kept from falling into absolute zero by nothing other than the happenstance of a fairly mediocre cosmic fusion reactor.
I know that what my senses, my intuitions, tell me are correct have not been confirmed or even supported directly by any controlled experiment (except in their lack of finding anything beyond the veil,) but I am deeply convinced that they are correct.
[On the subject of hard sf aliens: probably, but I doubt that any two such lifeforms are close enough in spacetime for either to contact the other while both are extant. Assuming they develop in the direction of being able to communicate.]
I have a huge imagination, but I'm pretty sure, there's nothing beyond that. In this world at least.
In short, I'd like to see fairies, but never have and never will.
who was it who said "inspiration has to have been inspired by something"? If you can imagine, perhaps you don't have to be wrong, perhaps you subconciously give shape to some energy or suchlike?
I believe in a truly open mind, if we can't see something doesn't preclude it from existing. I don't say I know any hidden truths or secret knowledge, simply that I try, as much as I can, to exclude no possibility which has not been conclusively proven false to my satisfaction (science is more often wrong than right)....until we can prove or study these phenomenon (as long they remain unexplained in other words) I shall continue to muse on them....truth is I don't think we humans are too well equipped with our 'where are the bananas?' brains anyway
It's true with most 'facts' that they are proven wrong a few centuries later :D
And I guess without imagination and thinking out of bananas, we wouldn't have invented anything by now (okay, mabe a ladder to reach the bananas)... and most often we just think we are smarter than we actually are.
The source is important: if we experience something, we have to take it seriously and think of what might have caused it (and if there is no proper cause, we can start imagine), but we can't just imagine omething and believe that therefor it's true.
I'm just unable to really believe in it unless it's clear to me.
Quote from: Lupernikes_shadowbark on September 08, 2008, 01:34:13 PM
If you can imagine, perhaps you don't have to be wrong, perhaps you subconciously give shape to some energy or suchlike?
Think about that sentence for a second. Are you really saying that by believing in something, mystic energies will contort themselves to humor you? That simply by imagining things they become real?
Not really simply that the energy is there, nothing at all mystic about it (why is everything not scientifically proven classed as 'mystic' these days?); simply how we perceive it varies. An example is a TV channel, you percieve it as fuzz or, if you tune your TV properly as images and sound.
Supernatural is just a term scientists use rather than admit that they don't understand something, or to dismiss something which doesn't follow the rules properly
Quote from: Lupernikes_shadowbark on September 08, 2008, 03:29:25 PM
Not really simply that the energy is there, nothing at all mystic about it (why is everything not scientifically proven classed as 'mystic' these days?); simply how we perceive it varies. An example is a TV channel, you percieve it as fuzz or, if you tune your TV properly as images and sound.
So you're saying that you never have to be wrong, as long as you reinterpret your data to make it fit what you want?
Quote from: Lupernikes_shadowbark on September 08, 2008, 03:29:25 PM
Supernatural is just a term scientists use rather than admit that they don't understand something, or to dismiss something which doesn't follow the rules properly
When scientists don't understand something, they go nuts trying to figure it out. When something doesn't fit the rules, they go positively loony until they figure out why. If what you are saying was true, then the double-split experiment would just have been dismissed as supernatural. Example: right now, scientists don't really know what dark matter is made of. They aren't saying, oh it's mysterious, its supernatural. They're investing millions in new detectors and running experiments and they aren't going to stop until they know exactly what's going on. This is the difference between the scientific viewpoint and the supernatural worldview.
Quote from: GA on September 08, 2008, 03:42:57 PM
Quote from: Lupernikes_shadowbark on September 08, 2008, 03:29:25 PM
Not really simply that the energy is there, nothing at all mystic about it (why is everything not scientifically proven classed as 'mystic' these days?); simply how we perceive it varies. An example is a TV channel, you percieve it as fuzz or, if you tune your TV properly as images and sound.
So you're saying that you never have to be wrong, as long as you reinterpret your data to make it fit what you want?
Why not, that's what scientists do?? I'm NOT telling anyone I'm right, sheesh! I'm putting ideas forward which may or may not be right; It's called discussion....part of the damn point of boards like this no?
Quote from: Lupernikes_shadowbark on September 08, 2008, 03:29:25 PM
Supernatural is just a term scientists use rather than admit that they don't understand something, or to dismiss something which doesn't follow the rules properly
When scientists don't understand something, they go nuts trying to figure it out. When something doesn't fit the rules, they go positively loony until they figure out why. If what you are saying was true, then the double-split experiment would just have been dismissed as supernatural. Example: right now, scientists don't really know what dark matter is made of. They aren't saying, oh it's mysterious, its supernatural. They're investing millions in new detectors and running experiments and they aren't going to stop until they know exactly what's going on. This is the difference between the scientific viewpoint and the supernatural worldview.
So science doesn'yt get it wrong ever then? There is ample evidence of paranormal activity, well documented evidence by independent witnesses which cannot be explained in any way shape or form by anyone yet something is happening and is not imaged by everyone. However, 'serious science' dismisses it as hokum and so forth. Space is not where the fount of all knowledge resides, just where all the grants are given. There is so much going on closer to home which is not funded and therefore not studied as it should be. I accept other views and applaud scientic discoveries of all kinds but I still ackowledge that there is plenty that we still do not know. To dismiss potential options is foolish in the extreme in my mind. Therefore the box does not fit. I am not of the 'supernatural' mind set, rather of the 'eternally curious' mind set. Question everything because there's no persoanl growth in repeating other people's words. Just because we can split atoms doesn't mean we can forget everything else.
Quote from: GA on September 07, 2008, 02:30:00 AM
I often get the sense that there is utterly no world beyond the observable, that there are no supernatural entities, nothing paranormal in the least. It's hard to describe - it's like hearing a sound, but without tone or pitch, the kind of sound that you feel as vibrations in the organs less firmly tied down. Only without vibrations, just... stillness. The feelingness of being utterly alone, with only a handful of tailless apes on a rock ball kept from falling into absolute zero by nothing other than the happenstance of a fairly mediocre cosmic fusion reactor.
I know that what my senses, my intuitions, tell me are correct have not been confirmed or even supported directly by any controlled experiment (except in their lack of finding anything beyond the veil,) but I am deeply convinced that they are correct.
[On the subject of hard sf aliens: probably, but I doubt that any two such lifeforms are close enough in spacetime for either to contact the other while both are extant. Assuming they develop in the direction of being able to communicate.]
I think that all depends on what you classify as 'observable'. What you or I can observe is so infinitesimally small compared to what's really there (as observed by scientific equipment, like microscopes and such), that I really have to wonder what else we're missing in our observations.
I think that there is far, far more 'out there', than we can possibly imagine. But it's not anything that we can sense in the normal ways. It's far more subtle than that. It's like where you describe a sound without vibration...only there is a vibration, and we can't feel it, just as we can't see things on the microscopic level without a microscope.
Quote from: GA on September 08, 2008, 02:07:50 PM
Quote from: Lupernikes_shadowbark on September 08, 2008, 01:34:13 PM
If you can imagine, perhaps you don't have to be wrong, perhaps you subconciously give shape to some energy or suchlike?
Think about that sentence for a second. Are you really saying that by believing in something, mystic energies will contort themselves to humor you? That simply by imagining things they become real?
Wouldn't that be a kicker? Suppose for a second that were true. Think about all the wars, poverty, abuses of power and people, all the things that are wrong with the world...what if we make them real by believing they are? What if we could change those things simply by imagining something else?
It's a fucked up hypothesis at this point. We have no way to prove it even if it were true. And yet, some of my experiences suggest that it might be. Not in the sense of mystic energies contorting themselves to humor me, but in the sense of being part of those mystical energies, and having the ability to shape and manipulate them through thought and belief.
A lot of people I've discussed the idea with tend to throw in "well, what about the victims?" What about the people who get raped, or murdered, or hit by some natural disaster? Are you saying it's their fault? That they thought or believed what happened to them into existence?". I can't say no without shooting down the whole hypothesis, and I can't say yes without some people taking it as blaming the victims. So I'll take the chance on people thinking I'm blaming the victims, and say that each of us is ultimately responsible for our lives. We are responsible for our thoughts and beliefs, and have the power to change those as we wish. We can accept whatever we were taught, and go through life believing without understanding, or we can question what we were taught, and decide whether or not to keep those beliefs. In essence, there are no victims, only people experiencing life in all its complexity. There is no blame, only choices and consequences.
This hypothesis is bullshit, and I think you know it.
It's looking for a way to reconcile why bad things happen to good people. There is a much simpler explanation for it- "Shit Happens".
I agree that there are choices and consequences, but blame will always exist because some people will always choose the "wrong" thing, for whatever reason (greed, stupidity etc)
This isn't science, mystical energies or believing in something causing it to happen, it's life.
Quote from: Lupernikes_shadowbark on September 08, 2008, 03:53:04 PM
Quote from: GA on September 08, 2008, 03:42:57 PM
Quote from: Lupernikes_shadowbark on September 08, 2008, 03:29:25 PM
Not really simply that the energy is there, nothing at all mystic about it (why is everything not scientifically proven classed as 'mystic' these days?); simply how we perceive it varies. An example is a TV channel, you percieve it as fuzz or, if you tune your TV properly as images and sound.
So you're saying that you never have to be wrong, as long as you reinterpret your data to make it fit what you want?
Why not, that's what scientists do?? I'm NOT telling anyone I'm right, sheesh! I'm putting ideas forward which may or may not be right; It's called discussion....part of the damn point of boards like this no?
Quote from: Lupernikes_shadowbark on September 08, 2008, 03:29:25 PM
Supernatural is just a term scientists use rather than admit that they don't understand something, or to dismiss something which doesn't follow the rules properly
When scientists don't understand something, they go nuts trying to figure it out. When something doesn't fit the rules, they go positively loony until they figure out why. If what you are saying was true, then the double-split experiment would just have been dismissed as supernatural. Example: right now, scientists don't really know what dark matter is made of. They aren't saying, oh it's mysterious, its supernatural. They're investing millions in new detectors and running experiments and they aren't going to stop until they know exactly what's going on. This is the difference between the scientific viewpoint and the supernatural worldview.
So science doesn'yt get it wrong ever then? There is ample evidence of paranormal activity, well documented evidence by independent witnesses which cannot be explained in any way shape or form by anyone yet something is happening and is not imaged by everyone. However, 'serious science' dismisses it as hokum and so forth. Space is not where the fount of all knowledge resides, just where all the grants are given. There is so much going on closer to home which is not funded and therefore not studied as it should be. I accept other views and applaud scientic discoveries of all kinds but I still ackowledge that there is plenty that we still do not know. To dismiss potential options is foolish in the extreme in my mind. Therefore the box does not fit. I am not of the 'supernatural' mind set, rather of the 'eternally curious' mind set. Question everything because there's no persoanl growth in repeating other people's words. Just because we can split atoms doesn't mean we can forget everything else.
Correlation is not Causation.
depends, if you accept quantum theory, then each human's conciousness and personality is a standing quantum wavefront and thus can propagate to all places at once. Could this be true of other conciousness? Could some of these phenomenon I've described be quantum effects? The law of 'energy is neother created or destroyed' could also apply, do quantum wavefronts ever go away or do they move to another level and manifest in other ways, do they even leave behind echoes?
My mathematical skills are not what they could be (thus my mastery of quantum theory too) so I'm just throwing this out here
Quote from: Lupernikes_shadowbark on September 08, 2008, 05:05:13 PM
depends, if you accept quantum theory, then each human's conciousness and personality is a standing quantum wavefront and thus can propagate to all places at once. Could this be true of other conciousness? Could some of these phenomenon I've described be quantum effects? The law of 'energy is neother created or destroyed' could also apply, do quantum wavefronts ever go away or do they move to another level and manifest in other ways, do they even leave behind echoes?
My mathematical skills are not what they could be (thus my mastery of quantum theory too) so I'm just throwing this out here
Quantum. Again.
People never learn.
Srsly, search the forum for anything LMNO or Triple Zero have ever said about Quantum.
I mentioned laymen who take scientific theories and put their own interpretation over it? This is one of those cases.
Quote from: Lupernikes_shadowbark on September 08, 2008, 05:05:13 PM
depends, if you accept quantum theory, then each human's conciousness and personality is a standing quantum wavefront and thus can propagate to all places at once.
Um. No.
:cn:
QuoteCould this be true of other conciousness? Could some of these phenomenon I've described be quantum effects?
Do you even know what you're talking about?
QuoteThe law of 'energy is neother created or destroyed' could also apply, do quantum wavefronts ever go away or do they move to another level and manifest in other ways, do they even leave behind echoes?
What the fuck is a "quantum wavefront"? Did you learn your science from Star Trek?
Quotemy mathematical skills are not what they could be (thus my mastery of quantum theory too) so I'm just throwing this out here
Quick, reel them back in!
I admit I don't understand quantum theory completely did I not?? I said it was an idea....sheesh I ask for clarification and ideas and reply as you did...I admit to not fully understanding and am curious and willing to learn. Never mind...my ideas are still my ideas until I can be conclusively convinced otherwise
Ok, look. If you don't know about the science you're referencing, then it's pretty odd to use it as an example.
Also, it's not advisable to reject a possible scientific answer if you don't know enough science to validate the conclusion in the first place.
You mention a lot of "experiments" that supposedly shows "paranormal activity".
But if you don't even know the science in question, how do you know it's "paranormal"?
Who's regurgitating someone else's theories now?
I said it shows that such things are not strictly imaginatory but where did I cite proof positive, simply that it's possible, that's all.
I'm curious as to whether quantum theory could explain some things, I don't know and am keen to know.
I've already said I don't have answers so read what you like...
paranormal is a label which people use to qualify these occurences .
supposed phenomenon have been recorded and readings taken to show something happened but that explainations cannot be found. I was wondering if maybe quantum theory can explain a few things? Don't worry, I'll see what i can find myself
Protip: never use the word 'quantum' to describe anything bigger than intermolecular forces.
thank you, then i shall not
Quote from: Roo on September 08, 2008, 04:41:53 PM
Quote from: GA on September 07, 2008, 02:30:00 AM
I often get the sense that there is utterly no world beyond the observable, that there are no supernatural entities, nothing paranormal in the least. It's hard to describe - it's like hearing a sound, but without tone or pitch, the kind of sound that you feel as vibrations in the organs less firmly tied down. Only without vibrations, just... stillness. The feelingness of being utterly alone, with only a handful of tailless apes on a rock ball kept from falling into absolute zero by nothing other than the happenstance of a fairly mediocre cosmic fusion reactor.
I know that what my senses, my intuitions, tell me are correct have not been confirmed or even supported directly by any controlled experiment (except in their lack of finding anything beyond the veil,) but I am deeply convinced that they are correct.
[On the subject of hard sf aliens: probably, but I doubt that any two such lifeforms are close enough in spacetime for either to contact the other while both are extant. Assuming they develop in the direction of being able to communicate.]
I think that all depends on what you classify as 'observable'. What you or I can observe is so infinitesimally small compared to what's really there (as observed by scientific equipment, like microscopes and such), that I really have to wonder what else we're missing in our observations.
I think that there is far, far more 'out there', than we can possibly imagine. But it's not anything that we can sense in the normal ways. It's far more subtle than that. It's like where you describe a sound without vibration...only there is a vibration, and we can't feel it, just as we can't see things on the microscopic level without a microscope.
I was being sarcastic. If Victory Wolf can hypothesize extranormal entities on the basis of 'colorless color,' then it stands to reason that I can posit the exact opposite on the basis of 'vibrationless sound.'
That's actually fairly w1n.
Quote from: GA on September 08, 2008, 05:50:27 PM
Quote from: Roo on September 08, 2008, 04:41:53 PM
Quote from: GA on September 07, 2008, 02:30:00 AM
I often get the sense that there is utterly no world beyond the observable, that there are no supernatural entities, nothing paranormal in the least. It's hard to describe - it's like hearing a sound, but without tone or pitch, the kind of sound that you feel as vibrations in the organs less firmly tied down. Only without vibrations, just... stillness. The feelingness of being utterly alone, with only a handful of tailless apes on a rock ball kept from falling into absolute zero by nothing other than the happenstance of a fairly mediocre cosmic fusion reactor.
I know that what my senses, my intuitions, tell me are correct have not been confirmed or even supported directly by any controlled experiment (except in their lack of finding anything beyond the veil,) but I am deeply convinced that they are correct.
[On the subject of hard sf aliens: probably, but I doubt that any two such lifeforms are close enough in spacetime for either to contact the other while both are extant. Assuming they develop in the direction of being able to communicate.]
I think that all depends on what you classify as 'observable'. What you or I can observe is so infinitesimally small compared to what's really there (as observed by scientific equipment, like microscopes and such), that I really have to wonder what else we're missing in our observations.
I think that there is far, far more 'out there', than we can possibly imagine. But it's not anything that we can sense in the normal ways. It's far more subtle than that. It's like where you describe a sound without vibration...only there is a vibration, and we can't feel it, just as we can't see things on the microscopic level without a microscope.
I was being sarcastic. If Victory Wolf can hypothesize extranormal entities on the basis of 'colorless color,' then it stands to reason that I can posit the exact opposite on the basis of 'vibrationless sound.'
you posit whatever you like as far as I'm concerned. If I don't accept it then that is my problem and not yours. Anyone is entitled to beleive what they like as long as they never try and force it down my throat. I was giving opinions which you can agree with or not. You disagreed, fine
Quote from: Lupernikes_shadowbark on September 08, 2008, 06:07:12 PM
Quote from: GA on September 08, 2008, 05:50:27 PM
Quote from: Roo on September 08, 2008, 04:41:53 PM
Quote from: GA on September 07, 2008, 02:30:00 AM
I often get the sense that there is utterly no world beyond the observable, that there are no supernatural entities, nothing paranormal in the least. It's hard to describe - it's like hearing a sound, but without tone or pitch, the kind of sound that you feel as vibrations in the organs less firmly tied down. Only without vibrations, just... stillness. The feelingness of being utterly alone, with only a handful of tailless apes on a rock ball kept from falling into absolute zero by nothing other than the happenstance of a fairly mediocre cosmic fusion reactor.
I know that what my senses, my intuitions, tell me are correct have not been confirmed or even supported directly by any controlled experiment (except in their lack of finding anything beyond the veil,) but I am deeply convinced that they are correct.
[On the subject of hard sf aliens: probably, but I doubt that any two such lifeforms are close enough in spacetime for either to contact the other while both are extant. Assuming they develop in the direction of being able to communicate.]
I think that all depends on what you classify as 'observable'. What you or I can observe is so infinitesimally small compared to what's really there (as observed by scientific equipment, like microscopes and such), that I really have to wonder what else we're missing in our observations.
I think that there is far, far more 'out there', than we can possibly imagine. But it's not anything that we can sense in the normal ways. It's far more subtle than that. It's like where you describe a sound without vibration...only there is a vibration, and we can't feel it, just as we can't see things on the microscopic level without a microscope.
I was being sarcastic. If Victory Wolf can hypothesize extranormal entities on the basis of 'colorless color,' then it stands to reason that I can posit the exact opposite on the basis of 'vibrationless sound.'
you posit whatever you like as far as I'm concerned. If I don't accept it then that is my problem and not yours. Anyone is entitled to beleive what they like as long as they never try and force it down my throat. I was giving opinions which you can agree with or not. You disagreed, fine
NO U
But... your opinions stem from misinformed ideas and hypotheses that don't hold water.
be that as it may, they're still my opinions and important to me. I think I should be entitled to change them at my own pace and in my own way. Fair?
Life isn't fair. Wear a helmet.
only when I'm riding my bicycle, otherwise I look daft
Quote from: Lupernikes_shadowbark on September 08, 2008, 07:34:16 PM
be that as it may, they're still my opinions and important to me. I think I should be entitled to change them at my own pace and in my own way. Fair?
Fair, if you also agree to keep your moronic ideas to yourself, and not let us see them.
My overdeveloped frontal lobes ache when I read some of your stuff.
is there any reason why you feel the need to get personal with people you disagree with?
Life isn't fair. Wear a helmet.
like i said to LMNO, only when riding my bike
Are you sure you belong here?
Quote from: LMNO on September 08, 2008, 07:31:31 PM
But... your opinions stem from misinformed ideas and hypotheses that don't hold water.
Quote from: Lupernikes_shadowbark on September 08, 2008, 07:34:16 PM
be that as it may, they're still my opinions and important to me.
So.... you agree that you opinions are horribly wrong, but you consider them important?
Quote from: LMNO on September 08, 2008, 07:31:31 PM
But... your opinions stem from misinformed ideas and hypotheses that don't hold water.
That's because the aliens
hate water.
please don't put words into my mouth, thank you...I didn't say that
so you and some others are obviously very up on scientific thought and theory and I am not. This makes me wrong in your opinion which is fine. Why not accept that I can have another opinion and leave it there?
Oh man...wasn't that the last film he made before he went totally batshit?
Quote from: Lupernikes_shadowbark on September 08, 2008, 07:50:12 PM
please don't put words into my mouth, thank you...I didn't say that
so you and some others are obviously very up on scientific thought and theory and I am not. This makes me wrong in your opinion which is fine. Why not accept that I can have another opinion and leave it there?
Because you can't coherently explain what you think..
Welcome to PD.com. Prepare to defend yourself.
Quote from: Roo on September 08, 2008, 04:49:51 PM
Quote from: GA on September 08, 2008, 02:07:50 PM
Quote from: Lupernikes_shadowbark on September 08, 2008, 01:34:13 PM
If you can imagine, perhaps you don't have to be wrong, perhaps you subconciously give shape to some energy or suchlike?
Think about that sentence for a second. Are you really saying that by believing in something, mystic energies will contort themselves to humor you? That simply by imagining things they become real?
Wouldn't that be a kicker? Suppose for a second that were true. Think about all the wars, poverty, abuses of power and people, all the things that are wrong with the world...what if we make them real by believing they are? What if we could change those things simply by imagining something else?
It's a fucked up hypothesis at this point. We have no way to prove it even if it were true. And yet, some of my experiences suggest that it might be. Not in the sense of mystic energies contorting themselves to humor me, but in the sense of being part of those mystical energies, and having the ability to shape and manipulate them through thought and belief.
A lot of people I've discussed the idea with tend to throw in "well, what about the victims?" What about the people who get raped, or murdered, or hit by some natural disaster? Are you saying it's their fault? That they thought or believed what happened to them into existence?". I can't say no without shooting down the whole hypothesis, and I can't say yes without some people taking it as blaming the victims. So I'll take the chance on people thinking I'm blaming the victims, and say that each of us is ultimately responsible for our lives. We are responsible for our thoughts and beliefs, and have the power to change those as we wish. We can accept whatever we were taught, and go through life believing without understanding, or we can question what we were taught, and decide whether or not to keep those beliefs. In essence, there are no victims, only people experiencing life in all its complexity. There is no blame, only choices and consequences.
didn't you get verbally gang-raped last time you brought up this idiotic idea of yours?
and didn't you deserve it?
THE SECRET, itt.
Quote from: Lupernikes_shadowbark on September 08, 2008, 07:34:16 PM
be that as it may, they're still my opinions and important to me. I think I should be entitled to change them at my own pace and in my own way. Fair?
knowing that you hold an opnion that is misinformed and/or factually wrong and deliberately not immediately adjusting your thinking to reflect your newfound knowledge is the height of ignorance.
if this is actually representative of your thought process, you should probably DIAF.
Its
(http://www.melbourne.indymedia.org/uploads/bullshit.jpg)
Quote from: East Coast Hustle on September 08, 2008, 08:02:23 PM
Quote from: Roo on September 08, 2008, 04:49:51 PM
Quote from: GA on September 08, 2008, 02:07:50 PM
Quote from: Lupernikes_shadowbark on September 08, 2008, 01:34:13 PM
If you can imagine, perhaps you don't have to be wrong, perhaps you subconciously give shape to some energy or suchlike?
Think about that sentence for a second. Are you really saying that by believing in something, mystic energies will contort themselves to humor you? That simply by imagining things they become real?
Wouldn't that be a kicker? Suppose for a second that were true. Think about all the wars, poverty, abuses of power and people, all the things that are wrong with the world...what if we make them real by believing they are? What if we could change those things simply by imagining something else?
It's a fucked up hypothesis at this point. We have no way to prove it even if it were true. And yet, some of my experiences suggest that it might be. Not in the sense of mystic energies contorting themselves to humor me, but in the sense of being part of those mystical energies, and having the ability to shape and manipulate them through thought and belief.
A lot of people I've discussed the idea with tend to throw in "well, what about the victims?" What about the people who get raped, or murdered, or hit by some natural disaster? Are you saying it's their fault? That they thought or believed what happened to them into existence?". I can't say no without shooting down the whole hypothesis, and I can't say yes without some people taking it as blaming the victims. So I'll take the chance on people thinking I'm blaming the victims, and say that each of us is ultimately responsible for our lives. We are responsible for our thoughts and beliefs, and have the power to change those as we wish. We can accept whatever we were taught, and go through life believing without understanding, or we can question what we were taught, and decide whether or not to keep those beliefs. In essence, there are no victims, only people experiencing life in all its complexity. There is no blame, only choices and consequences.
didn't you get verbally gang-raped last time you brought up this idiotic idea of yours?
and didn't you deserve it?
It's true, the reactions around here tended to be fairly nasty. Unfortunately, I've been frequenting too many New Age forums, where such ideas are commonplace, and apparently forgot where I was. :oops:
Quote from: Lupernikes_shadowbark on September 08, 2008, 07:50:12 PM
please don't put words into my mouth, thank you...I didn't say that
so you and some others are obviously very up on scientific thought and theory and I am not. This makes me wrong in your opinion which is fine. Why not accept that I can have another opinion and leave it there?
no, this makes you wrong in fact, not in anyone's opinion.
we can accept that you have another opinion which you know to be wrong and ignorantly defend anyway, you can accept that many of us enjoy poking people like you with sticks.
sad, that's all I can say....I really am leaving it there now
sad that you would willingly ignore facts in favor of clinging to an ill-informed opinion?
I agree.
yes, yes whatever makes you happy
Quote from: Lupernikes_shadowbark on September 09, 2008, 12:02:25 AM
yes, yes whatever makes you happy
Actually, he'd be more happy if you'd continue digging yourself a hole.
which is why i won't, I've got better things to do with my life than give sad little boys a hard on
Quote from: Lupernikes_shadowbark on September 09, 2008, 12:14:37 AM
which is why i won't, I've got better things to do with my life than give sad little boys a hard on
:sadbanana:
:cn:
And....
:lulz: HE JUST KEEPS POSTING! :lulz:
The one sure sign of an internet loser, even more than bragging about IRL toughness, penis size, or how much you really don't care (no, really! I don't give a shit!) is when a person repeatedly recognizes that being in a discussion is doing him no go, swears he'll leave and never come back (multiple times) ...
... and sticks around.
that and having "wolf" anywhere in your username.
I think the next time I need to make a troll account I will use a wolf name.
Woof, woof.
-The Alphabet Wolf.
Quote from: LMNO on September 09, 2008, 02:30:15 PM
Woof, woof.
-The Alphabet Wolf.
Actually, wolves don't bark, they just howl.
- the smartass
Quote from: Lilith on September 09, 2008, 02:31:31 PM
Quote from: LMNO on September 09, 2008, 02:30:15 PM
Woof, woof.
-The Alphabet Wolf.
Actually, wolves don't bark, they just howl.
- the smartass
Alphabet wolves bark. I read it on Wikipedia!
There is such a thing as Alphabet Wolf? ;)
I know they use a warning sound which you could interpret as a 'woof', but usually just once...
but I can be wrong.
Look at my screename, and consider the context.
Quote from: LMNO on September 09, 2008, 04:05:32 PM
Look at my screename, and consider the context.
Even though it sucks to explain something probably obvious, you have to help me here... don't get it.
LMNO are just letters from the alphabet for me. Me stupid foreigner :|
Indeed. abcdefghijkLMNOpqrstuvwxyz. He's the alphabet man.
There is no REAL thing called an alphabet wolf, but there would be if he used it as a trolling name y'see?
You might have gotten the joke better if you knew that on these forums I've been called Captain Alphapance, Alphabet dude, et al.
There is much to learn, young padawan...
Thanks, really. I tend to be too naive in such things.
Oh my... I should have started earlier with this web stuff. Feeling like the older generation :D
I HAS A QUANTUM PENIS. IF YOU RUB IT, IT WILL GROW ON YUO.
Lil, you are walking a thin line, thar.
I have a quantum penis. It extends through several alternate universes.
I have a string theory. It's my penis.
i have a quantum penis it has fucked you in a alternate universe
Quantum tunneling, ITT.
I have an M-brane Penis, it exists in 7 to 11 dimensions.
I have a non-quantum penis. It actually functions in the macroworld.
I have a penis that runs with a bad crowd. They hang out at 14th and Minna.
Quote from: East Coast Hustle on September 09, 2008, 11:45:01 PM
I have a penis that runs with a bad crowd. They hang out at 14th and Minna.
:potd:
WOMP THAT PENIS