It has been said by wiser men than me that evil has its own attraction. Any time there is chaos or economic failure, the idea of strong organization becomes very palatable to domesticated primates...So they turn to things like police forces wearing military-type uniforms, etc. There's a certain magic in fascism, that appeals to people when times are rotten.
A good example is the ICE branch of the US Customs office, which is now part of DHS instead of the Treasury Department. ICE officers do not wear the police-style uniforms worn by other federal policing agencies, but rather the "digital camoflage uniforms worn by the US Army. There is, of course, no need for this uniform other than to give an intimidating, paramilitary appearance to the officers.
Germany did that, once.
Another thing people tend to do when times get rocky is to view dissenters as treasonous or at least "obstructionist". The press, if not completely on board with the political leadership, is castigated and - if possible - silenced.
An example of this is today's removal of Keith Olbermann from the RNC convention coverage, as he objected to the airing of a 911-themed film shown at the convention. To show part of such a clip is simply reporting...but to show the entire clip is essentially unpaid advertising for the party in question on the part of the network. To show an entire speech is also responsible journalism, but an entire, packaged propaganda piece?
That goes beyond journalism, into "mouthpiece" territory. And a captive and/or sycophantic media is an abomination...Indeed, our "free press" is merely an unofficial branch of the so-called "government".
I don't know about you, but it's time to start fucking with the media.
Or kill me.
Sounds like a good idea to me.
Quote from: Risus on September 09, 2008, 01:13:01 AM
Sounds like a good idea to me.
Oh, yes. We've DONE forums.
Now I want to go after Fox and MSNBC. I want to hunt BIG GAME.
Anyone else interested?
If you have a good enough plan, sure.
As far as the airing of that film goes, I'd say show it all (or at least enough of it,) and then have an objective discussion on why the republicans are trying to win the election with fear games.
So much more MSNBC's "balance" :argh!:
I'm down to HIMEOBS the media.
I wouldn't know the first thing to do.
But I'd love to see it done.
If you'd like to help me understand what I could do, I'd be down.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 09, 2008, 12:30:50 AM
It has been said by wiser men than me that evil has its own attraction. Any time there is chaos or economic failure, the idea of strong organization becomes very palatable to domesticated primates...So they turn to things like police forces wearing military-type uniforms, etc. There's a certain magic in fascism, that appeals to people when times are rotten.
A good example is the ICE branch of the US Customs office, which is now part of DHS instead of the Treasury Department. ICE officers do not wear the police-style uniforms worn by other federal policing agencies, but rather the "digital camoflage uniforms worn by the US Army. There is, of course, no need for this uniform other than to give an intimidating, paramilitary appearance to the officers.
Germany did that, once.
Another thing people tend to do when times get rocky is to view dissenters as treasonous or at least "obstructionist". The press, if not completely on board with the political leadership, is castigated and - if possible - silenced.
An example of this is today's removal of Keith Olbermann from the RNC convention coverage, as he objected to the airing of a 911-themed film shown at the convention. To show part of such a clip is simply reporting...but to show the entire clip is essentially unpaid advertising for the party in question on the part of the network. To show an entire speech is also responsible journalism, but an entire, packaged propaganda piece?
That goes beyond journalism, into "mouthpiece" territory. And a captive and/or sycophantic media is an abomination...Indeed, our "free press" is merely an unofficial branch of the so-called "government".
I don't know about you, but it's time to start fucking with the media.
Or kill me.
Hear, Hear, Good Reverend Roger indeed.
I'm willing to help in any way I can, being situated in the Netherlands.
Goddess approves.
mainstream media a worthy target !
A worthy cause indeed!
Now, any ideas on how to pull it off?
i am not a troll or very knowledgeable about the inner workings of media so this is just a idea...
get the media to report on how fail the other networks reporting is, start a flame war between networks,news papers etc.
if stories about how "NBC" is lame, didn't ask this tough question or kissed this politician's ass get a big enough play (it probably needs to be huge) and the other channels report it.
then similar stories get reported about how the network doing the reporting on "NBC's" lameness are equally lame etc.
-flame war ensues and reporters are forced to do a good job to avoid being called on there mistakes/biases
Name calling and shit slinging would just make us look like loonies and make the media look better. A well informed rebuttal campaign with all the facts that the media doesn't bother to relay would be a good start. Omission reporting is their greatest tool and it wouldn't be that difficult to refute it with the full stories.
Just thinking out loud.
Quote from: The Reverend Asshat on September 09, 2008, 06:08:01 PM
Name calling and shit slinging would just make us look like loonies and make the media look better. A well informed rebuttal campaign with all the facts that the media doesn't bother to relay would be a good start. Omission reporting is their greatest tool and it wouldn't be that difficult to refute it with the full stories.
Just thinking out loud.
Of course, you'd need someone who knows the full stories...
getting substantial stories about the lack of substance in the competition's stories was what i had in mind , no real insight into how it could be done, the thin yellow line we don't report on there yellow journalism they don't report ours would need to be broken
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 09, 2008, 12:30:50 AM
know about you, but it's time to start fucking with the media.
Or kill me.
What did you have in mind?
Quote from: The Reverend Asshat on September 09, 2008, 06:08:01 PM
Name calling and shit slinging would just make us look like loonies and make the media look better.
Michelle Malkin and Ann Coulter refute this claim.
The importance of the media is ideological correctness. You can be about as far right as you want, so long as you do not use racial slurs, and you can be as far 'left' as Chris Matthews.
But that doesn't matter, because any strategy that relies on media consent is doomed to failure. You have to start with things the media
have to report. Gossip, innuendo, rumour, spread via the blogs. Phone in's, trolling as crazy-right wing veterans. Framing events through careful manipulation of the above so that once it comes to the fore in the media, it is already accepted as plausible, or at least juicy.
Cain has idea's I think...
I know Michelle Malkin will respond to her emails and has in the past said she did some story based on an email she had received. My father just loves her..... :x
CNN has run Youtube videos before, as real news. As low quality as those videos are, they wouldn't be hard to fake. As in show a guy speaking from quite some distance, then say in the video description that it's such-and-such politician back in '97.
Quote from: Richter on September 09, 2008, 06:28:24 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 09, 2008, 12:30:50 AM
know about you, but it's time to start fucking with the media.
Or kill me.
What did you have in mind?
Not sure yet.
I'd like to start by HIMEOBSing MSNBC's comments and forums. Not in the usual style, of course, that would simply result in banning.
No, I think a mass blitz of a new meme. We'd need lots of people to do it, and we need to agree on our message.
I have some ideas, but I want to get some input from all of you while I try to put these ideas into words.
Basically, it comes down to the "government is a social fiction" thing.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 10, 2008, 02:32:06 AM
Quote from: Richter on September 09, 2008, 06:28:24 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 09, 2008, 12:30:50 AM
know about you, but it's time to start fucking with the media.
Or kill me.
What did you have in mind?
Not sure yet.
I'd like to start by HIMEOBSing MSNBC's comments and forums. Not in the usual style, of course, that would simply result in banning.
No, I think a mass blitz of a new meme. We'd need lots of people to do it, and we need to agree on our message.
I have some ideas, but I want to get some input from all of you while I try to put these ideas into words.
Basically, it comes down to the "government is a social fiction" thing.
Then you are on!
Quote from: Janvier on September 10, 2008, 02:34:07 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 10, 2008, 02:32:06 AM
Quote from: Richter on September 09, 2008, 06:28:24 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 09, 2008, 12:30:50 AM
know about you, but it's time to start fucking with the media.
Or kill me.
What did you have in mind?
Am I supposed to fish more? or are you perhaps preparing some leviathan-like rant?
Not sure yet.
I'd like to start by HIMEOBSing MSNBC's comments and forums. Not in the usual style, of course, that would simply result in banning.
No, I think a mass blitz of a new meme. We'd need lots of people to do it, and we need to agree on our message.
I have some ideas, but I want to get some input from all of you while I try to put these ideas into words.
Basically, it comes down to the "government is a social fiction" thing.
Then you are on!
O come on, let me in, I'm Eris' Jester.
As well as the shaman, (the greatest foe and ally)
As well as the Smartest Young Whippersnapper
Mr. Handsome
Pro in the Art of Funky Lovemaking
And he did ask:
So you want me to be in three layers?
The master smiled
So how do I get to the fourth level?
Abstraction, just like before higher
Go one layer deeper and one layer
At the fifth level, Eris awaits. That is, if you believe in that sort of thing ;)
I don't care what you do with this shit. I just want to be fairly credited. No really.
No, seriously.
No, I want credits. I didn't come up with the Virtues again for nothing.
Credit: Janvier the Omnipotent Shaman (But He Just Doesn't Feel Like Proving It Right Now)
jan.f.miller@gmail.com
I'd like to thank all my fans around the globe. Now I'm gonna drop out and work on a
5-act 4 act (One is now free... You know who you are) tragedy devoted to Eris. Project starts here: .....
Project ends with a Deus Ex Machina.
You have been a wonderful audience.
Quote from: Janvier on September 10, 2008, 02:49:30 AM
Quote from: Janvier on September 10, 2008, 02:34:07 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 10, 2008, 02:32:06 AM
Quote from: Richter on September 09, 2008, 06:28:24 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 09, 2008, 12:30:50 AM
know about you, but it's time to start fucking with the media.
Or kill me.
What did you have in mind?
Am I supposed to fish more? or are you perhaps preparing some leviathan-like rant?
Not sure yet.
I'd like to start by HIMEOBSing MSNBC's comments and forums. Not in the usual style, of course, that would simply result in banning.
No, I think a mass blitz of a new meme. We'd need lots of people to do it, and we need to agree on our message.
I have some ideas, but I want to get some input from all of you while I try to put these ideas into words.
Basically, it comes down to the "government is a social fiction" thing.
Then you are on!
O come on, let me in, I'm Eris' Jester.
As well as the shaman, (the greatest foe and ally)
As well as the Smartest Young Whippersnapper
Mr. Handsome
Pro in the Art of Funky Lovemaking
And he did ask:
So you want me to be in three layers?
The master smiled
So how do I get to the fourth level?
Abstraction, just like before higher
Go one layer deeper and one layer
At the fifth level, Eris awaits. That is, if you believe in that sort of thing ;)
I don't care what you do with this shit. I just want to be fairly credited. No really.
No, seriously.
No, I want credits. I didn't come up with the Virtues again for nothing.
Credit: Janvier the Omnipotent Shaman (But He Just Doesn't Feel Like Proving It Right Now)
jan.f.miller@gmail.com
I'd like to thank all my fans around the globe. Now I'm gonna drop out and work on a 5-act 4 act (One is now free... You know who you are) tragedy devoted to Eris. Project starts here: .....
Project ends with a Deus Ex Machina.
You have been a wonderful audience.
Oh, and in the Netherlands you may also refer to me as Episkopos Pseudonymus.
wut
:facepalm:
Anyway, is it time to ressurect the AWS?
ECH and I had a brainstorm on this idea in IRC tonight.
One of us will no doubt post details of it later.
IRC logs on request.
Quote from: Dr. Payne on September 12, 2008, 05:21:48 AM
ECH and I had a brainstorm on this idea in IRC tonight.
One of us will no doubt post details of it later.
IRC logs on request.
POST IT.
Quote[03:55] <@Hustle> so....anyone interested in talking about Roger's idea of manipulatively trolling the media during the election?
[03:55] <&Payne> I am
[03:55] <&Payne> but
[03:56] <&Payne> I don't think I'm in a fit state to
[03:56] <@Hustle> I'm all for it but I'm having trouble thinking of where we should direct our initial energy
[03:56] <&Payne> all I'm good for is platitudes and typos atm
[03:57] <&Payne> my thought would be AP, reuters et ak
[03:57] <&Payne> et al*
[03:57] <&Payne> the main news feed
[03:57] <@lizziesad> i'll listen but might not be good for much convo
[03:57] <@Das_Richter> it would ahve to pass the usual media 'give a fuck' test, whatever we did
[03:57] <@lizziesad> and thank's payne
[03:57] <&Payne> they are vulnerable to being fed false/incorrect information
[03:57] <@Das_Richter> and we'll need that
[03:58] <@Hustle> you wanna try to hit the wire services? we'll have to be very careful about how we decide to try to get past their "bullshit sniffers" but the reward could be high indeed
[03:58] <@Das_Richter> fake that we (whoever's doing the troll) is a diff / improtant group
[03:58] <@Das_Richter> fake majority opion
[03:59] * IasonOuabache (jablair51@hide-30FF0EE.hsd1.in.comcast.net) has joined #discord
[04:00] <@Hustle> I was thinking more like creating a fake human interest story at the local level of a midwestern city somewhere that would throw a candidate into a negative light if it broke nationally.
[04:00] <@Das_Richter> "unexpected fallout of alaskan pipeline" or somesuch?
[04:00] * Payne sets mode +o IasonOuabache for #discord
[04:01] <@Das_Richter> how it led to more orphans in juneau
[04:01] <@Hustle> that'd be the easiest to get started and if it got mementum (typo intentionally left in place) it'd be unstoppable from there
[04:01] <@Hustle> something like that, yeah. dunno exactly what yet
[04:01] <@Fred_> epic cleaning SUCKS
[04:02] <@Hustle> but we need an alaskan for this, if that's the direction we want to go. I think it might be easier to find one of us who lives somewhere the campaign will be soon and have them plant a report of an interaction with the candidate
[04:02] <@Das_Richter> so we need some shit that's beleiveable, and supeficially backed up by hard fact
[04:02] <@lizziesad> can we troll Palin into the ground?
[04:02] <@lizziesad> that would definitely make me stop being sad :D
[04:02] <@Hustle> oh, i found someone that lives in a swing state that wants to help
[04:02] <@Hustle> it's me
[04:03] <@Das_Richter> ECH: we need EVERY Alaskan Statistic we can find from the last decade.
[04:03] <@Das_Richter> correlate, and then paly off the media's poor comprehension of proper statistcal application
[04:03] <@Hustle> they're gonna be all the fuck over this place because we're pretty middle-of-the-road to begin with AND we split our electoral votes instead of automatically giving them all to the overally winner
[04:04] <@Hustle> nah. we don't know enough about alaska. remember, it';s gotta be human interest to get traction.
[04:04] <@Das_Richter> yea, but the corrlation gives us somehtign to base it off of
[04:04] <@Hustle> gotta appeal to emotion and reptile brain, not logic and reason
[04:04] <&Eve> what's going on? wasn't paying attention
[04:05] <@Das_Richter> we build a bleeding heart around a core of bad logic, then jsut cut it loose, kind of liek an AP round
[04:05] <@lizziesad> PALIN'S GOIN DOOOOOWN THAT'S WHAT
[04:05] <&Eve> woo
[04:05] <&Eve> !
[04:05] <&Eve> i was hoping to get my little statement posted on this blog, but it hasn't shown up yet :( http://womenagainstsarahpalin.blogspot.com/
[04:06] <&Payne> ....
[04:06] <&Payne> why are we focusing on Palin?
[04:06] <&Eve> ...
[04:07] <&Payne> why not McCain?
[04:07] * Kai (xelnagan_1@hide-5083D5EE.thornhill.resnet.clemson.edu) Quit ( Quit: )
[04:08] <&Eve> PAYNE DON'T ASK QUESTIONS
[04:08] <@lizziesad> if I have to listen to that bitch for FOUR FUCKING YEARS
[04:08] <@lizziesad> I'M GOING TO LAUNCH A GODDAMNED TERRORIST ATTACK THAT'S WHY
[04:09] <&Payne> I fear that the Palin nomination has worked
[04:09] * lizziesad is now known as lizziehaet
[04:09] <&Payne> we are ALL focused on Palin now
[04:09] <@lizziehaet> lol we haet her tho
[04:09] <@Hustle> the GOP is weak right now. the fact taht Palin has given the GOP such a bump in the polls is indicative of how unenthused the republican base is about McCain
[04:09] <&Payne> rather than McCaon
[04:09] <@Hustle> if we can make Palin look bad, we'll accomplish alot
[04:10] <@Hustle> it's not that she's motivating voters that;'s the real problem, it;s that she's REALLY motivating the GOP fundraisers and donors
[04:10] <@lizziehaet> indeed
[04:10] <@lizziehaet> DOWN WIFF PALIN
[04:10] <&Payne> ...ok
[04:10] <@lizziehaet> DOWN WIFF PALIN
[04:10] <&Payne> in that sense, I can see that
[04:10] <@Hustle> we need to make it socially unacceptable to be giving alot of money in support of her causes
[04:11] <&Payne> I only feel that that was intentional on the part of th GOP
[04:12] <@lizziehaet> but how do we do that
[04:12] <@Hustle> it was. Palin was a "hail mary" desperation pick for McCain (who most insiders agree would have preferred Tom Ridge).
[04:13] <@Hustle> we need to plant a story, which means we need to concentrate on vectors first
[04:13] <@Hustle> vectors to have a plausible story about contact with the principles (anyone involved with the campaign should be considered a principle)
[04:13] <&Payne> which KIND of vectors?
[04:14] <@Hustle> and then vectors for the story to reach saturation
[04:14] <&Payne> right
[04:14] <@Das_Richter> brain's not working for shit. I'ma sleep
[04:14] <@Das_Richter> adios
[04:15] <@lizziehaet> LOL
[04:15] <&Payne> we have enough people who are flexible enough and prolific enough to hit multiple vectors the same time
[04:15] <@lizziehaet> mccain being barackrolled http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TiQCJXpbKg
[04:15] <@Hustle> we won't get close to a candidate (and we shouldn't try), but it's not out of the question for someone to put themselves in the right place at the right time to converse with a mid- to high-level campaing operative
[04:15] * Das_Richter (R1@hide-30F4E819.bstnma.east.verizon.net) Quit ( Quit: Leaving. )
[04:15] <&Eve> night Richter
[04:15] <&Payne> wait
[04:15] <&Payne> Ohio
[04:16] <@Hustle> anyone involved with finance or spending should be considered a choice target
[04:16] <&Payne> qing state, right?
[04:16] <&Payne> swing*
[04:16] <@Hustle> important one too
[04:16] <&Payne> Ohio
[04:16] <&Payne> focus on Ohip
[04:16] <&Payne> lot of attention
[04:16] <@Hustle> Michigan is important as well
[04:16] <@Fred_> WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO OHIO
[04:16] <&Payne> lot of campaigners
[04:16] <&Payne> lot of people IN ohio
[04:17] <&Payne> who can get close to those people
[04:17] <@Hustle> rat
[04:17] <@Hustle> he's in columbus
[04:17] <&Payne> indeed
[04:17] <@Hustle> we need to get him actively involved
[04:17] <@Fred_> ARE YOU KILLING MY STATE
[04:17] <@Hustle> and I bet he'd be down
[04:17] <&Payne> not at all
[04:17] <&Payne> we're making your state a headline
[04:17] <@Hustle> FUCK YOU FRED MY MOM IS A STATE THAT GOT KILLED
[04:18] <&Payne> ....which is the same thing, really
[04:18] <@Hustle> yeah, we're exploiting your state
[04:18] <@Fred_> FUCK YOU HUSTLE I DONT CARE
[04:18] <@Fred_> o
[04:18] <@Fred_> ic
[04:18] <@Fred_> if ttm ever comes online then recruit him
[04:18] <@Hustle> bending it over and raping it's corrupt and corpulent anus and leaving just alive enough to suck some more life out of 4 years from now
[04:18] <&Payne> if he's up for an IRL troll
[04:19] <&Payne> Michigan too, if we can get both
[04:19] <&Payne> but Ohio, well, thats talked about even here in the UK
[04:19] <&Payne> it's hella important
[04:20] <@Hustle> I used to live their but I had to stay "in the closet" about this sort of thing
[04:20] <@Hustle> in michigan, that is
[04:20] <&Payne> lol
[04:20] <@Hustle> aini lives there, but shes unreliable at best
[04:20] <&Payne> yeah
[04:21] <&Payne> as awesome as it would be to even get aini linked to a campaigner
[04:21] <@Hustle> if I remember correctly, Cyberus is from detroit, but I don;t know him well enough to know if he';d be interested or effective and he's on pretty infrequently anyway
[04:21] <@Hustle> ooohh....didn't think of that side of it
[04:21] <&Payne> he's been frequenting the HHQ
[04:22] <@Hustle> that's something else we need to think about....actively corrupting reputations if at all possible just by forcing ourselves to be linked to people
[04:22] <@Hustle> you made me think of it with the aini comment
[04:22] * Nigel (kalera@hide-C7C0D783.hsd1.or.comcast.net) has joined #discord
[04:22] <Nigel> It's too "coincidental" to be a coincidence, it happens EVERY FUCKING TIME they try to promote their "more reliable" business accounts
[04:23] <&Payne> hell, we COULD get TTM involved without tarnishing his reputation, and maybe enhancing it, by having him "break" a story
[04:23] <@lizziehaet> what happened Nigel
[04:23] * Eve sets mode +o Nigel for #discord
[04:23] <@Nigel> This happens every time Comcast has a "business account" ad campaign out
[04:23] <@lizziehaet> what does
[04:23] <@Hustle> that's right, he works for a news outlet
[04:23] <&Eve> is that why my internet's been shitty?
[04:23] <@Nigel> Constant interruptions in service
[04:23] <@Hustle> we still need to find opportune points for IRL interaction
[04:23] * Risus (48faf569@hide-52C73B6E.mibbit.com) has joined #discord
[04:24] <@Hustle> we need a campaign schedule
[04:24] <@Nigel> Yes, it's happening everywhere and it ALWAYS starts right after they launch an ad campaign for more reliable service at a higher price
[04:24] <@Hustle> and some willing agents
[04:24] <@Nigel> What are you guys plotting?
[04:24] <&Payne> well, Ohio, I feel, is our most valid target and easiest opportunity
[04:24] <Risus> gonna make ECH Admin of the USA
[04:24] <@Nigel> YAY
[04:25] <&Payne> we would have to work for a campaign schedule
[04:25] <@Hustle> Maine IS a swing state and they will have a presence here (however small) so I'll do my best to take advantage but it would be better if we could find people in Michigan and/or Ohio
[04:25] <@Nigel> He would be a great Admin of the USA
[04:25] <&Payne> hell, if it came down to it, we should get a fund of some kind going just to get people into Ohio at the right time
[04:26] <@Hustle> I think anything of a tactical nature past the brainstorming of intersect points in the vectors should be left for later
[04:26] <&Payne> IF we can get a campaign schedule to make it worthwhile
[04:26] * Payne sets mode +o Risus for #discord
[04:26] <@Hustle> yeah. we need to focus primarily on creating the initial opportunity
[04:27] <&Payne> indeed
[04:27] <&Payne> and what kind of opportunity we want to create
[04:27] <@Hustle> indeed
[04:27] <&Payne> we can do the "aini" style association gig
[04:28] <&Payne> we could do something more proactiveon our parts
[04:28] <@Hustle> that would be potentially powerful if we could pull it off, but it would require an agent to essentially "kamikaze" themselves.
[04:28] <&Payne> we could work on "exposing" someone who is working for the candidate we are not backing
[04:28] <@Hustle> oh shit. I got it.
[04:29] <@Hustle> we need to figure out who's who in their campaign
[04:29] <@Hustle> then we need to figure out who's in charge of marketing/messaging/networking stuff
[04:29] <@Hustle> and how to find them on myspace and facebook
[04:29] <@Hustle> then we datamine the shit out of them. shouldn't be hard
[04:29] <&Payne> a chief of staff in waiting?
[04:29] <&Payne> right
[04:29] <@Hustle> then we start digging
[04:30] <&Payne> we need research
[04:30] <&Payne> a lot of it
[04:30] <&Payne> and fast
[04:30] <@Hustle> if we hit big dirt, great. if we hit small dirt, we file it away and anyone who intersects the campaign can use it as the base to construct a scandal if they can get face-time with the right person
[04:31] <&Payne> hell, even asking the wrong question at the wrong time can have massive repercussions
[04:31] <&Payne> we don't HAVE to think big
[04:32] <@Hustle> yeah, we don;t have to try for one big bomb. we can throw dozens of little pebbles and still make big ripples
[04:33] <&Payne> which is why a multi-swing-state attack may work better
[04:33] * SquidBurger (4121b140@hide-52C73B6E.mibbit.com) has joined #discord
[04:33] * Eve sets mode +o SquidBurger for #discord
[04:33] <&Payne> we need to balance what we can do with what it will achieve
[04:34] <&Payne> ....and we need Cain
[04:36] <&Payne> so what have we got from this brainstorm?
[04:36] <&Payne> -targets : swing states where we have people on the ground we can/mey be able to get helping us
[04:36] <@lizziehaet> WHERE IS CAIN?
[04:36] <@lizziehaet> IS HE SLEEPING?
[04:37] <@Risus> CAIN DOES NOT SLEEP
[04:37] <@Requiem> its 430 in the mornig wgere he is
[04:37] <&Payne> -targets : people working on campaigns, as opposed to the candidates themselces
[04:37] <&Payne> wher I am too
[04:37] <&Payne> and I am still awake
[04:37] <@lizziehaet> OH THEN HE IS ASLEEP
[04:37] <&Payne> worling for The Cause
[04:37] <@SquidBurger> what dids i miss?
[04:37] <@lizziehaet> BECAUSE CAIN HAZ NORMAL HOURS NOW
[04:37] <@Risus> THE PAYNE HAS LEARNED THAT SLEEP IS FOR THE WEAK
[04:37] <@Requiem> Cain seems to keep normal hours though
[04:38] <@lizziehaet> for now
[04:38] <&Payne> actually, ECH, have you been taking notes?
[04:38] <@lizziehaet> OF COURSE HE HAS BEEN
[04:38] <@lizziehaet> WHAT KIND OF QUESTION IS THAT
[04:38] <&Payne> if not, I have the log for all of this
[04:38] <&Payne> which may be better
[04:38] <@Hustle> OK, so we contact rat, TTM, and me, and brainstorm of anyone else who may be in a useful place
[04:39] <@Hustle> yes, I have been taking notes
[04:39] <&Eve> i'm trying so hard to follow this conversation and it's just not working. oh well
[04:39] <@Fred_> i used to be usefulm :(
[04:39] <@Risus> WE WILL STRIKE WITH PRECISION AND LAIL
[04:39] <@Fred_> i fail
[04:39] <&Payne> we ALL are useful
[04:39] <&Payne> we need research
[04:39] <@Risus> MOSBUNALL
[04:39] <@Fred_> >:(
[04:39] <&Payne> we need people on the ground
[04:39] <@Hustle> yeah, anyone can help with campaign research
[04:39] <&Payne> we need people to spread rumours
[04:40] <@Requiem> What exactly are you trying to get done anyway?
[04:40] <@SquidBurger> whats going on?!?!? rawr!
[04:40] <@Risus> CAMPAIGN FUCK 08
[04:40] <@Fred_> well id only help if i was in ohio, and im not, so im not helping
[04:40] <&Payne> we are voting for the noodle party in '08
[04:40] <@SquidBurger> oh no
[04:40] <@Fred_> woo'
[04:40] <@Risus> ADVICE PUPPY/ MSK
[04:40] <&Payne> and THAT is what this all about, rigt?
[04:40] <@Hustle> we need a schedule of campaign stops and who will be at those stops, a who's who of the campaign, anda list of agents in areas of strategic interest
[04:41] <&Payne> and we need to consider being able to parachute people into those ares to do the jobs we need done
[04:43] <@Hustle> parachutes. I don't know why I didn't think of that
[04:43] <&Payne> heh
[04:43] <&Payne> I'm thinking UK politics again
[04:43] <@SquidBurger> So I heard a rumor on a talk radio shoe that McCain has sent false absentee ballots to the swing states (like here, in brevard) to the elserly democrats. so they vote on what is essentially an advertisement thinking theyre sending in
[04:43] <@SquidBurger> their ballot and it doesnt count
[04:44] <@SquidBurger> so it's like they didnt vote. anyone know if there's any truth behind this?
[04:44] <@SquidBurger> LOL radio shoe! i meant show
[04:44] <&Payne> lail
[04:44] <&Payne> I was focused on shoe there
[04:44] <@Fred_> mmmmmmm australian doctor on house. wooo
[04:44] <&Payne> :O
[04:45] <@SquidBurger> also: elderly, not elserly
[04:45] * Risus is now known as risus_backlater
[04:45] <@Hustle> I hadn't heard anything about it, but it's a brilliant idea
[04:45] <&Payne> yeah
[04:45] <&Payne> and put the right spin on it.....
[04:45] <@Hustle> if you can get any sort of hard corroboration of that, squid, you should
[04:46] <@lizziehaet> YAY BOYTHING DIDN'T RUN AWAY FROM ME
[04:46] <@SquidBurger> it is really. but it kind of makes me sick, preying on the elderly AGAIN because they ARE very gullible
[04:46] <&Payne> lizzie: yay
[04:46] <&Payne> also, what did I tell you
[04:46] <@SquidBurger> i wish there was a way i could find out for sure. maybe one of the legit news stations has gotten wind of this? if not maybe they should?
[04:47] <@lizziehaet> i forgotted already
[04:47] <&Payne> lemme find the relevent convo
[04:47] <@lizziehaet> lol OKAY
[04:47] * lizziehaet is now known as lizzayhyper
[04:51] <&Payne> Lizzie, ygpm
[04:52] <@lizzayhyper> YGPM?
[04:52] <@lizzayhyper> OOOOH
[04:55] <&Payne> but yeah, ECH
[04:56] <@Hustle> OK, I'm out. Payne, we should both be sure to talk to the relevant people tomorrow
[04:56] <@IasonOuabache> http://mushroomprince.ytmnd.com/
[04:56] <&Payne> I do suggest trying to get some of Cains thoughts on this
[04:56] <&Payne> also
[04:56] <&Payne> see ya later man
[04:56] <@Hustle> I'll keep my notes handy
[04:56] <@Hustle> yeah, he's at the top of my list
[04:56] <@Hustle> peace out dawg
Thats the raw log, unedited, and replete with my typos. PM me if you can't understand a word I'm saying, my typos were terrible due to being a little drunk.
If you really want to bring Palin down, keep in mind that anything the fundies think is bad will do more damage than anything else.
Triple points if you can get the media to say she had an abortion as a teenager.
i don't watch too much TV (no cable - 1 channel) but it seems like the o'reilly factor would be a good "Back Door" into the media.
contact info is here:
hxxp://www.foxnews.com/oreilly/contact-us/index.html
i don't have internets at home, but would be willing to call the radio show with some sort of bullshit story. it would be cool, methinks, if this was organized - i do have satellite radio, so should be able to catch the show and calls and stuff. i figure the screeners can only think a story is bullshit for so long before they start taking it seriously.
from the site:
Quoteyou can call "The Radio Factor" live on the air at 1-877-9-NO-SPIN (877-966-7746) weekdays from noon to 2 p.m. ET
so, who's gonna pick the day to call and the "story" to call about?
maybe hit hannity, et al. too?
I've got that same chatlog edited for clarity and brevity. I'll PM it to Roger and cain and if anyone else is interested, hit me up.
Quote[14:06] <@El_Richter> alarming, but I'm keeping my grains of salt handy until I've checked all the references
[14:07] <@Cain> as I understand it, McCain basically ridiculed a proposal by Obama that young children be taught about inappropriate touching
[14:08] <@Cain> because that would be teaching young children about sex
[14:09] <@Cain> also, I don't think Obama even proposed the bill
[14:09] <@El_Richter> I can't help but think, when this shit gets press coverage ""ok, but is there any REAL news ?" ; )
[14:10] <@Cain> yeah, probably
[14:11] <@El_Richter> granted, slacktivist put one HELL of a spin on it
[14:13] <@El_Richter> hell, if we'd caught this yesterday and put it about,we'd have pulled off Roger's campaign troll idea
[14:14] <&Payne> as I see it, we're doing more of a media troll
[14:14] <&Payne> the election is only being used because thats what the media is focused on atm
[14:15] <&Payne> we KNOW stories about the election will be featured
[14:18] <@El_Richter> considering most citizens don't find out about the election many other ways, it could v. well be a troll on the campaign
[14:18] <&Payne> yeah
[14:18] <&Payne> collateral damage, unfortunately ;)
[14:20] <@El_Richter> heh, care which way things are pushed may be required
[14:21] <&Payne> well, we can go for a double whammy, right?
[14:21] <&Payne> create bad press for the election, and then reveal it as a fraud
[14:21] <@El_Richter> that's true
[14:22] <&Payne> the campaign takes a hit, and then so does the media outlet
[14:22] <@El_Richter> but a good slander on either candidate could take on a life of it's own
[14:22] <&Payne> if it's ambiguous enough, yes
[14:22] <&Payne> something that actually has little content, seems to say more than it does, and is very transmittable
[14:23] <@El_Richter> I'd like to credit people with more intelligence, but some just WILL NOT stop believing an idea they like, even if given hard evidence it's wrong
[14:23] <&Payne> I like ECHs idea of avoiding the candidates themselves, and going for their campaign staff
[14:24] <&Payne> I think that is more achievable, and also can create all sorts of interesting spin off rumours
[14:24] <@El_Richter> that's an idea....
[14:24] <@El_Richter> ..since no one knows them to begin with
[14:24] <&Payne> indeed, and it's MUCH easier to get access to them
[14:25] <@El_Richter> there's new hampshire ex mayor on the McCain team who's sole job is to hand out campaign schwag and keep Johns spirits up
[14:25] <@El_Richter> he had a feature in "newsweek"about 2-4 weeks back
[14:26] <&Payne> people like that
[14:27] <@El_Richter> you got it
[14:27] <&Payne> we need to make a couple selections of people, then construct a web of half truths and innuendo around them, and then "break" the story
[14:28] <&Payne> and this ex-mayor dude sounds like a good candidate
[14:29] <@El_Richter> him having a crush for john or cindy maybe
[14:30] <&Payne> yeah, but people close to the campaign, but not important enough to have their backs covered
[14:31] <&Payne> find something we can use against them, spin it so it sounds like it's more than it really is, then disseminate it everywhere as quietly, but as fast as possible
[14:32] <&Payne> we could get the AWS guys working on it, they were good at that kind of thing
[14:32] <&Payne> then a concerted effort to get the story noticed by a larger media outlet
[14:33] <&Payne> once we start with the story, we need to keep it running, and fanning the flames
[14:33] <@El_Richter> : )
[14:33] <&Payne> it'll be a small effect, but a noticable one
[14:34] <&Payne> and we can keep trying to spin off various other stories and angles from it
[14:38] <@El_Richter> http://www.newsweek.com/id/151754
[14:38] <@El_Richter> steve duprey
More discussion in IRC, some more ideas. Edited down for brevity.
"Palin said she has smoked marijuana"
http://dwb.adn.com/news/politics/elections/governor06/story/8049298p-7942233c.html
Quote from: Dr. Payne on September 21, 2008, 09:05:30 PM
I started thinking about it, but I'm thinking either too small, too indirect, or both.
How so?
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 10, 2008, 02:32:06 AM
Quote from: Richter on September 09, 2008, 06:28:24 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 09, 2008, 12:30:50 AM
know about you, but it's time to start fucking with the media.
Or kill me.
What did you have in mind?
Not sure yet.
I'd like to start by HIMEOBSing MSNBC's comments and forums. Not in the usual style, of course, that would simply result in banning.
No, I think a mass blitz of a new meme. We'd need lots of people to do it, and we need to agree on our message.
I have some ideas, but I want to get some input from all of you while I try to put these ideas into words.
Basically, it comes down to the "government is a social fiction" thing.
Hell yes.
Any developments on the message, angle of attack, criteria for a successful mission?
Quote from: Netaungrot on September 21, 2008, 09:25:29 PM
Quote from: Dr. Payne on September 21, 2008, 09:05:30 PM
I started thinking about it, but I'm thinking either too small, too indirect, or both.
How so?
Maybe not so much the ideas, as opposed to the way they're presented. We need people to really get behind the ideas I've presented, that doesn't seem to be happening anytime soon, which it needs to, or it'll be December already and too late to use the ideas ECH and I bounced around.
Quote from: Dr. Payne on September 21, 2008, 10:12:26 PM
Quote from: Netaungrot on September 21, 2008, 09:25:29 PM
Quote from: Dr. Payne on September 21, 2008, 09:05:30 PM
I started thinking about it, but I'm thinking either too small, too indirect, or both.
How so?
Maybe not so much the ideas, as opposed to the way they're presented. We need people to really get behind the ideas I've presented, that doesn't seem to be happening anytime soon, which it needs to, or it'll be December already and too late to use the ideas ECH and I bounced around.
I think there's ALOT of motivation and not so much clarity on what the specific objectives are or other mechanisms for people to get involved and start taking action.
Two points:
First off, I am not in OH, but I am close to, so I could possibly help with the meeting people thing. Possibly. I would need to be told what to do.
Secondly, there was indeed a story about McCain sending out fake ballots. Happened in OH. I don't remember which newspaper I read it in, but I did read it not that long ago. I'll go digging and see if I can find the story.
Ok, I have an idea in general terms which I need to flesh out, carrying on with Rogers "Government is a Social Fiction" idea.
What we could do is get one or two of us who can really rant our guts up to write a letter/ flier with this as the central idea, but have it so it sounds like it is written by someone connected to one or the other of the political parties.
We then get a bunch of people in the states we have targeted as being the most likely to have a visible impact to write letters of their own, expressing shock, dismay, horror (whatever) and send both letters together to major news outlets, hoping that they'll take interest in this and perhaps cover it in some way.
Given the high publicity with politicians and the internet lately, we could perhaps find some way to play off that too.
I need more time to consider what we could write in the original rant that would make it juicy to the news organisations, how we could attempt to connect it to one of the political parties (but make it seem that the letter is no overtly connected with the party), and which news organisations are best to target.
Feel free to comment.
QuoteDear [name]
Having been involved in the [some kind of organisation that will actually have someone realistically writing this type of letter] since [believeable date], I have long worked for positive change in Ohio. I now feel that the time has come for me to offer my support to the candidate for Presidency that offers fresh ideas and positive solutions to the main issue affecting our great country today.
I have always believed that the social fiction of Government is of great concern to all citizens, and I believe that [candidate] offers us the best soultion to this problem. I would like to see support for him from all good thinking Americans come election day, and allow him to address this from the position where he can do most good. From the White House.
Another important issue we must address is the current complexity of our election procedures. We are relying on the good faith of both parties and of the independant observers to carry the will of the people to the seat of Government itself. We must not allow this easily corrupted system to further pollute the ideals set down in the constitution of our great nation. We, as voters, must find a way to take back the power we have abrogated to faceless men and women, and I believe that a vote for [candidate] will help us do just that.
I am excited at the possibility of the flaws of our Government being exposed and set right by [candidate]. But before this can be realized, we must conduct an agressive campaign on his behalf. Our opponent in this struggle is [brief description of why the other candidate is less suited than "our" candidate to deal with these issues]. For these reasons I must urge you to make the correct choice at the election.
To assist [candidate], I propose a strong grassroots campaign that will highlight the deficiencies I have noted above. I believe we can work together to draw public awareness to the problems within our highest and most honored institutions. United, we can prevail.
I urge you to help with brochures, yard signs and canvassing, informing our fellow citizens of the social fictions and electoral deficiencies of our Government, and our hope that we can enact real change. Together, we can end the lie of Government. Together, we can help change this country.
Sincerely
[Letter writers name]
I kinda like this. I
t needs tightening up, a bit more controversy, and a bit more detail. But it sounds like a letter that would be sent out in support of someone.