Iptuous surprised me the other day. "I think that's the first optimistic thing I've seen you post!" he said. Caught me right out of leftfield, I'm optimistic to a fault. So I had a think about how anyone could possibly draw that conclusion and, of course, the answer was staring me straight in the face - most people don't like strife. It's that simple. I talk about the prospect of society falling apart and devolving into a free-for-all carnage fest and, naturally, to most normal people this would be pessimism.
Not for me. I'm hoping and praying it actually happens and I'm too optimistic to allow myself to entertain the horrible notion that we, as a race, might pull ourselves back from the brink. The truth is that by most rational definitions I'm a very bad person because I like strife. Hell, I fucking worship it. Happy ever after isn't an ending in my book, it's an ideal place to hold a war. I can't look at a pastoral landscape without imagining how much of an improvement it would be if there was a mugging going on.
Without strife in the world I would run out of shit to hate. My middle finger would atrophy from lack of exercise. Don't get me wrong, I like being happy and contented as much as the next guy but only in moderation. Couple of days of peace and quiet is more than enough for me and then I gotta go find something to blow up or someone to set on fire. The human race is primarily composed of ignorant monkeys, who are hell bent on killing each other. I don't see this changing any time soon. In case you missed it, that was me being optimistic.
Srsly!
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on March 14, 2009, 02:46:31 PM
Iptuous surprised me the other day. "I think that's the first optimistic thing I've seen you post!" he said. Caught me right out of leftfield, I'm optimistic to a fault. So I had a think about how anyone could possibly draw that conclusion and, of course, the answer was staring me straight in the face - most people don't like strife. It's that simple. I talk about the prospect of society falling apart and devolving into a free-for-all carnage fest and, naturally, to most normal people this would be pessimism.
Not for me. I'm hoping and praying it actually happens and I'm too optimistic to allow myself to entertain the horrible notion that we, as a race, might pull ourselves back from the brink. The truth is that by most rational definitions I'm a very bad person because I like strife. Hell, I fucking worship it. Happy ever after isn't an ending in my book, it's an ideal place to hold a war. I can't look at a pastoral landscape without imagining how much of an improvement it would be if there was a mugging going on.
Without strife in the world I would run out of shit to hate. My middle finger would atrophy from lack of exercise. Don't get me wrong, I like being happy and contented as much as the next guy but only in moderation. Couple of days of peace and quiet is more than enough for me and then I gotta go find something to blow up or someone to set on fire. The human race is primarily composed of ignorant monkeys, who are hell bent on killing each other. I don't see this changing any time soon. In case you missed it, that was me being optimistic.
Srsly!
Sounds like you would be all shits and giggles then if someone came and strifed you out of a job, a place to live, then strifed all over your face. pls. Little daily conflicts don't rate the term strife. It's an easy enough habit to pick up. Like G-Dub using the word 'terror.' Terror at blockbuster when they don't have your favorite movie. Terror when they don't have the 6XL MegaPopcorn bucket with lard fries at the movie theater. Terror! AHHH!!! Strife yesssss
It's like the episode of the twilight zone where this guy goes to heaven and realizes that it's really really boring. (Actually, it turns out to be hell. Do you believe that?)
People need shit to hit the fan, otherwise we'd all probably devolve into fungus.
S'what I'm sayin'.
Quote from: Pope Lecherous on March 14, 2009, 06:10:42 PM
Sounds like you would be all shits and giggles then if someone came and strifed you out of a job, a place to live, then strifed all over your face.
It's happened before and theres every chance it'll happen again. Shit fills me with the fear. Then it happens and I come alive or die trying. Losing all the bullshit you've convinced yourself you need is sometimes the only way to wake the fuck up.
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on March 14, 2009, 07:34:45 PM
It's happened before and theres every chance it'll happen again. Shit fills me with the fear. Then it happens and I come alive or die trying. Losing all the bullshit you've convinced yourself you need is sometimes the only way to wake the fuck up.
i like you
Quote from: Urraco el Faus aus Mí Luàn on March 14, 2009, 06:47:52 PM
It's like the episode of the twilight zone where this guy goes to heaven and realizes that it's really really boring. (Actually, it turns out to be hell. Do you believe that?)
People need shit to hit the fan, otherwise we'd all probably devolve into fungus.
S'what I'm sayin'.
Conflict does motivate. I recall that episode vividly. One of the things that pissed him off was when dude was playing pool. hahaha
I don't find it especially amusing, invigorating, or positive when people are hungry or homeless or physically harmed, especially kids.
It's easy for people to have a smugly salacious view of social collapse and the ensuing mayhem when they're snug in their homes with enough to eat. Go hungry and cold for a few weeks and see if you have as much fun as you think you will. Maybe watch some of your loved ones die and see if it motivates you.
Its normaly the ones that don't know what its like to be hungry and scaired that leave the others in that state.
Quote from: Nigel on March 14, 2009, 10:52:17 PM
I don't find it especially amusing, invigorating, or positive when people are hungry or homeless or physically harmed, especially kids.
It's easy for people to have a smugly salacious view of social collapse and the ensuing mayhem when they're snug in their homes with enough to eat. Go hungry and cold for a few weeks and see if you have as much fun as you think you will. Maybe watch some of your loved ones die and see if it motivates you.
Then congratulations, you aren't a sadist! A lot of people are though, and those people are the ones who get joy out of it.
Quote from: Skieth on March 14, 2009, 11:47:39 PM
Quote from: Nigel on March 14, 2009, 10:52:17 PM
I don't find it especially amusing, invigorating, or positive when people are hungry or homeless or physically harmed, especially kids.
It's easy for people to have a smugly salacious view of social collapse and the ensuing mayhem when they're snug in their homes with enough to eat. Go hungry and cold for a few weeks and see if you have as much fun as you think you will. Maybe watch some of your loved ones die and see if it motivates you.
Then congratulations, you aren't a sadist! A lot of people are though, and those people are the ones who get joy out of it.
And misanthropes. Sadism isn't required.
TGRR,
Alla youse monkeys, get the fuck off my planet.
Quote from: Nigel on March 14, 2009, 10:52:17 PM
I don't find it especially amusing, invigorating, or positive when people are hungry or homeless or physically harmed, especially kids.
It's easy for people to have a smugly salacious view of social collapse and the ensuing mayhem when they're snug in their homes with enough to eat. Go hungry and cold for a few weeks and see if you have as much fun as you think you will. Maybe watch some of your loved ones die and see if it motivates you.
It's more gallows humor than anything else. Watching humans running off of cliffs in droves like lemmings (except that we don't have Marlin Perkins shoving us off with a bulldozer, which just goes to show that humans < lemmings) is the best definition of horrormirth I can come up with.
Pent,
that was just a flip comment based upon your comments i have read that left an impression on me. I had firmly tacked your avatar (with the little alien guy and hypnotic rainbow colors) to the abstraction of 'ennui' inside my careenium. what you have presented as your outlook, i would have associated more with TGRR.
But my percecptions will be a little skewed in regards to that mindset anyways, because i am a relatively friendly and happy-go-lucky gloom n' doomer. i love all the shit that you hate. but we can still light it on fire together. :evil:
Iptuous
Quote from: Iptuous on March 15, 2009, 03:43:58 PM
Pent,
that was just a flip comment based upon your comments i have read that left an impression on me. I had firmly tacked your avatar (with the little alien guy and hypnotic rainbow colors) to the abstraction of 'ennui' inside my careenium. what you have presented as your outlook, i would have associated more with TGRR.
But my percecptions will be a little skewed in regards to that mindset anyways, because i am a relatively friendly and happy-go-lucky gloom n' doomer. i love all the shit that you hate. but we can still light it on fire together. :evil:
Iptuous
wut
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 15, 2009, 05:01:01 PM
Quote from: Iptuous on March 15, 2009, 03:43:58 PM
Pent,
that was just a flip comment based upon your comments i have read that left an impression on me. I had firmly tacked your avatar (with the little alien guy and hypnotic rainbow colors) to the abstraction of 'ennui' inside my careenium. what you have presented as your outlook, i would have associated more with TGRR.
But my percecptions will be a little skewed in regards to that mindset anyways, because i am a relatively friendly and happy-go-lucky gloom n' doomer. i love all the shit that you hate. but we can still light it on fire together. :evil:
Iptuous
wut
:|
Quote from: Urraco on March 16, 2009, 01:44:48 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 15, 2009, 05:01:01 PM
Quote from: Iptuous on March 15, 2009, 03:43:58 PM
Pent,
that was just a flip comment based upon your comments i have read that left an impression on me. I had firmly tacked your avatar (with the little alien guy and hypnotic rainbow colors) to the abstraction of 'ennui' inside my careenium. what you have presented as your outlook, i would have associated more with TGRR.
But my percecptions will be a little skewed in regards to that mindset anyways, because i am a relatively friendly and happy-go-lucky gloom n' doomer. i love all the shit that you hate. but we can still light it on fire together. :evil:
Iptuous
wut
:|
I don't know why I have such a bad rap around here. I try to help people. :)
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 16, 2009, 02:01:59 AM
Quote from: Urraco on March 16, 2009, 01:44:48 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 15, 2009, 05:01:01 PM
Quote from: Iptuous on March 15, 2009, 03:43:58 PM
Pent,
that was just a flip comment based upon your comments i have read that left an impression on me. I had firmly tacked your avatar (with the little alien guy and hypnotic rainbow colors) to the abstraction of 'ennui' inside my careenium. what you have presented as your outlook, i would have associated more with TGRR.
But my percecptions will be a little skewed in regards to that mindset anyways, because i am a relatively friendly and happy-go-lucky gloom n' doomer. i love all the shit that you hate. but we can still light it on fire together. :evil:
Iptuous
wut
:|
I don't know why I have such a bad rap around here. I try to help people. :)
I didn't know you did.
I actually think of you as one of the more likeable persons on here.
I think it's because you don't use words like ''ennui'' and ''careenium''.
There is no need for that kind of language when you're actually trying to communicate.
Quote from: Urraco on March 16, 2009, 02:24:00 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 16, 2009, 02:01:59 AM
Quote from: Urraco on March 16, 2009, 01:44:48 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 15, 2009, 05:01:01 PM
Quote from: Iptuous on March 15, 2009, 03:43:58 PM
Pent,
that was just a flip comment based upon your comments i have read that left an impression on me. I had firmly tacked your avatar (with the little alien guy and hypnotic rainbow colors) to the abstraction of 'ennui' inside my careenium. what you have presented as your outlook, i would have associated more with TGRR.
But my percecptions will be a little skewed in regards to that mindset anyways, because i am a relatively friendly and happy-go-lucky gloom n' doomer. i love all the shit that you hate. but we can still light it on fire together. :evil:
Iptuous
wut
:|
I don't know why I have such a bad rap around here. I try to help people. :)
I didn't know you did.
I actually think of you as one of the more likeable persons on here.
I think it's because you don't use words like ''ennui'' and ''careenium''.
There is no need for that kind of language when you're actually trying to communicate.
I used ennui once.
But I wasn't trying to communicate. I was insulting a European. :)
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 16, 2009, 02:37:50 AM
Quote from: Urraco on March 16, 2009, 02:24:00 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 16, 2009, 02:01:59 AM
Quote from: Urraco on March 16, 2009, 01:44:48 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 15, 2009, 05:01:01 PM
Quote from: Iptuous on March 15, 2009, 03:43:58 PM
Pent,
that was just a flip comment based upon your comments i have read that left an impression on me. I had firmly tacked your avatar (with the little alien guy and hypnotic rainbow colors) to the abstraction of 'ennui' inside my careenium. what you have presented as your outlook, i would have associated more with TGRR.
But my percecptions will be a little skewed in regards to that mindset anyways, because i am a relatively friendly and happy-go-lucky gloom n' doomer. i love all the shit that you hate. but we can still light it on fire together. :evil:
Iptuous
wut
:|
I don't know why I have such a bad rap around here. I try to help people. :)
I didn't know you did.
I actually think of you as one of the more likeable persons on here.
I think it's because you don't use words like ''ennui'' and ''careenium''.
There is no need for that kind of language when you're actually trying to communicate.
I used ennui once.
But I wasn't trying to communicate. I was insulting a European. :)
Bwahahahaha!
The correct usage as far as I'm concerned.
yeah, ok, 'careenium' would only be familiar if you're a fan of Hofstadter, but it should at least activate a couple of simmballs in your head simply because it sounds so close to 'cranium'....
and ennui would only be familiar if your a fan of words that make you sound erudite...
But let us not get away from the central message of this thread; there are so many wonderful ways to be a fan of our thousand petaled eschaton that is blooming all about us!
Quote from: Iptuous on March 16, 2009, 03:04:43 AM
yeah, ok, 'careenium' would only be familiar if you're a fan of Hofstadter, but it should at least activate a couple of simmballs in your head simply because it sounds so close to 'cranium'....
and ennui would only be familiar if your a fan of words that make you sound erudite...
But let us not get away from the central message of this thread; there are so many wonderful ways to be a fan of our thousand petaled eschaton that is blooming all about us!
i never said I didn't know what the words mean, sir.
I appreciate your love of words (I also find myself captivated by the little buggers from time to time) but you gotta reallize dat tha most impertint part of words iz dat they is undahstood.
Eschaton! That's a wonderfully cuddly word.
that one actually doesn't count for much on this board, i'm guessing.
Nope. S'why I said cuddley.
S'what I'm sayin'.
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on March 14, 2009, 02:46:31 PM
Not for me. I'm hoping and praying it actually happens and I'm too optimistic to allow myself to entertain the horrible notion that we, as a race, might pull ourselves back from the brink. The truth is that by most rational definitions I'm a very bad person because I like strife. Hell, I fucking worship it. Happy ever after isn't an ending in my book, it's an ideal place to hold a war. I can't look at a pastoral landscape without imagining how much of an improvement it would be if there was a mugging going on.
It's like I said not too long ago: the doomsayers are the optimists, the hopeful ones.
HAW HAW! Tough shit, man. Humanity is too
stupid to destroy itself. It'll keep lumbering along in its diseased, horrendous way, looking awful and leaving us wondering when someone will have the kindness to put the poor thing down.
But no one
can. Humanity has been obsessed with its own demise for thousands of years, and even humanity itself can't figure out how to make the apocalypse happen. It's the god damn Energizer Bunny.
I agree that we'll keep lumbering along, but i would say that we've made the appocalypse happen many times in the past. why do you think we won't make it happen again?
:wink:
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 16, 2009, 02:37:50 AM
I used ennui once.
But I wasn't trying to communicate. I was insulting a European. :)
:spittake:
Quote from: Iptuous on March 16, 2009, 03:04:43 AM
yeah, ok, 'careenium' would only be familiar if you're a fan of Hofstadter, but it should at least activate a couple of simmballs in your head simply because it sounds so close to 'cranium'....
Roo Roo Hofstadter! I've been trying to come up with a way to summarize the Who Shoves Whom Around in the Careenium essay, because it neatly encompasses the Black Iron Prison, Free Will vs Determinism, and Shrapnel discussions.
/tangent
Quote from: Iptuous on March 16, 2009, 04:01:25 AM
I agree that we'll keep lumbering along, but i would say that we've made the appocalypse happen many times in the past. why do you think we won't make it happen again?
:wink:
FTR, I'm with you on the skepticism about doomsday prophecy. They've predicted the end of the world well over 200 times in the last 500 years.
but the threat of global nuclear annihilation - that's straight up possible.
Quote from: Cramulus on March 16, 2009, 10:24:25 PM
FTR, I'm with you on the skepticism about doomsday prophecy. They've predicted the end of the world well over 200 times in the last 500 years.
but the threat of global nuclear annihilation - that's straight up possible.
I agree, but i like the quote attributed to Einstein, "i don't know what weapons WWIII will be fought with, but WWIV will be fought with sticks and stones"
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_T0JrqoZ33qY/RxzaLbhW5ZI/AAAAAAAAAZI/5d99G-DA_dg/s320/neville+ennui.jpg)
Quote from: Iptuous on March 16, 2009, 04:01:25 AM
I agree that we'll keep lumbering along, but i would say that we've made the appocalypse happen many times in the past. why do you think we won't make it happen again?
:wink:
I meant apocalypse in the sense of "Game Over, And We're Out Of Quarters." Perhaps Armageddon is a better word for that.
Quote from: Nigel on March 14, 2009, 10:52:17 PM
I don't find it especially amusing, invigorating, or positive when people are hungry or homeless or physically harmed, especially kids.
It's easy for people to have a smugly salacious view of social collapse and the ensuing mayhem when they're snug in their homes with enough to eat. Go hungry and cold for a few weeks and see if you have as much fun as you think you will. Maybe watch some of your loved ones die and see if it motivates you.
I agree completely.
Quote from: Nigel on March 14, 2009, 10:52:17 PM
It's easy for people to have a smugly salacious view of social collapse and the ensuing mayhem when they're snug in their homes with enough to eat. Go hungry and cold for a few weeks and see if you have as much fun as you think you will. Maybe watch some of your loved ones die and see if it motivates you.
I know it's a hard thing to digest, but some of us don't have a huge problem with what you define as the "problems" of social collapse. I understand a bunch of the doomwishers are internet tough guys who want to idealize the Mad Max scenarios, while being in no way prepared to handle it, but some of us... well, I doubt I'll ever get to truly make my point.
So, Silly, I think I'm back in the full swing of the pd hivemind. Not 3 hours ago I was formulating a rant quite similar to this, using the economy as backdrop. Some of your wording was quite similar to mine, especially your point about how pessimism and optimism can look like the other in the cracked mirror.
I don't think social collapse is on the cards. At least, in the sense I understand it. I honestly think something between Argentina and Russia is more likely, on the worst end of possible scenarios, maybe with some Greek riots thrown in. Society didn't collapse, it just...gets disrupted. And becomes shittier to live in. More dangerous. Less opportunities, once the dust settles. Stratified.
I like options. I think the more complex a society, the more chances for actual chaos are present. Allows for more black swans, and a more complex society tends to support more political/social/religious factions, which means more dyads (potential flashpoints of conflict arising from various relational positions) among those groups. Which had more chaos, the incessant scheming of the Greek City-States, or the barbarian Avar Khanganate? One was a society rich with backstabbing, intrigue, diplomacy and war...the other was rule of the biggest thug on the block. As it turns out, I'm not the biggest thug on the block, and neither is anyone else here (and if they are, why aren't you working for Blackwater Xe and making a literal killing off such skills?). I know which I prefer.
Sure, there will be a point where no-one has a clue what is going on, and someone with enough luck to be in the right position and with the right presence of mind will be able to do well, but leaving such things to chance is a mug's game. And if you miss your shot at it...well, people who show themselves to be poor players at the game are not often asked back for a second chance. And as things devolve and get less complex, as it turns into a Cold War struggle between the lower class (probably aided mostly by the now dwindling middle class) and the upper classes, those chances will come less and less often. And class war only allows for one eventual outcome - oligarchy.
tl;dr version: the Roman Empire at it's height was a thousand times more chaotic and strife-filled than something as stupid as current day Somalia.
I agree entirely with the OP, but Nigel, I would like to point out that this doesn't mean I like watching people suffer. TBH I do in some way enjoy watching horrible shit like 1man1jar or the world news, but that's just because I like to experiment with things that make me squirm, and I think it will make me better able to deal with life in the future
If I see a little kid fall over I would rather laugh than feel guilty - shit happens and there's not much you can do about it. I'm not going to laugh at starving kids, but that's very different, if child grazes a knee it will probably see the funny side in a few days (or years), if it ever develops decent emotional stability.
It's not human suffering that I enjoy seeing, it's chaos. Sure, that generally involves human suffering, which is a crying shame (karma is a bitch, yeah fuck all you monkeys!), but I do constantly pray for social collapse to some degree. There is plenty that's fucked up right now and I don't think the situation can properly improve without casualties. So be it.
Cain has a really good point though, and I do really hope we can strip away a shitload of our system WITHOUT societies all descending into oligarchy or despotism, but I have little confidence.
Better to try and find comedy in any situation IMO. Horrormirth or just plain horror - have a giggle. Guilt isn't always constructive, often it just sucks.
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on March 14, 2009, 02:46:31 PM
Happy ever after isn't an ending in my book, it's an ideal place to hold a war.
While I like the whole rant, this one sentence speaks volumes to my black withered soul!
I don't enjoy innocent people suffering. In any way. But there is a war coming and in war it is the innocent who will suffer. I don't have to like it, I don't like it, but it's just the way of war.
The people of the world need a wake up call to realize that this right now IS the Happily ever after.....
I posit that, as the world blooms around us, there is pleasure and horror, beauty and grotesquerie. It all exists, regardless of anyone's desire, and therefore the whole is lesser, in some way, if any aspect is not appreciated by somebody. The horror and the grotesque is difficult to appreciate and love by those mired directly in it, so it is therefore the duty of those in a comfortable vantage point to admire their strife. This, of course, does not, impact the responsibility of the individual to stop what suffering one can...
ETA: i'm also likely to change my mind as soon as i'm on the other side of the equation...
Quote from: Iptuous on March 18, 2009, 03:06:28 PM
I posit that, as the world blooms around us, there is pleasure and horror, beauty and grotesquerie. It all exists, regardless of anyone's desire, and therefore the whole is lesser, in some way, if any aspect is not appreciated by somebody. The horror and the grotesque is difficult to appreciate and love by those mired directly in it, so it is therefore the duty of those in a comfortable vantage point to admire their strife. This, of course, does not, impact the responsibility of the individual to stop what suffering one can...
ETA: i'm also likely to change my mind as soon as i'm on the other side of the equation...
You ride that fence well...... :lulz:
Being in pain is one of the worst things a human being can face.
A life without pain is nought but the most hollow shell of an existence.
Go figure.
Quote from: K-Bitch on March 18, 2009, 04:05:50 PM
You ride that fence well...... :lulz:
and I pay the piper in the form of karmic wedgies for it...
Quote from: Iptuous on March 18, 2009, 04:34:52 PM
Quote from: K-Bitch on March 18, 2009, 04:05:50 PM
You ride that fence well...... :lulz:
and I pay the piper in the form of karmic wedgies for it...
Better karmic wedgies than astral fisting.....
The idea of karma greatly offends me. Yeah, bad stuff only happens to people who "deserve" it. It would be nice if life actually worked that way.
you're still running an old version of Karma? You've gotta patch that shit man. Upgrade to Karma v2.3, it's much better.
I think Tempest V is still working on the outdated "Stoned Lennon" Karma patch that was recalled on 12/8/1980.
Quote from: Tempest Virago on March 18, 2009, 06:11:10 PM
The idea of karma greatly offends me. Yeah, bad stuff only happens to people who "deserve" it. It would be nice if life actually worked that way.
That is a bastardized Western view of karma, and has almost nothing in common with the original concept of karma.
If you do something bad to someone the negative effects will be recurring forward forever, same goes for good things. It doesn't mean it will come back on the monkey who deserves it, but that it will come back on monkeys in general, who, clearly, deserve it.
Quote from: Dr Hoopla on March 18, 2009, 07:22:10 PM
That is a bastardized Western view of karma, and has almost nothing in common with the original concept of karma.
The West was not required to bastardize the view of karma which you are referring to, to be fair....
Quote from: Iptuous on March 18, 2009, 07:41:56 PM
Quote from: Dr Hoopla on March 18, 2009, 07:22:10 PM
That is a bastardized Western view of karma, and has almost nothing in common with the original concept of karma.
The West was not required to bastardize the view of karma which you are referring to, to be fair....
I don't understand what you mean by that.
Problem with the westernised view of karma is that is comes with justice built in.
If you drop a pebble in a pond the ripples don't only hit the parts of the pond that deserve it.
Let's explain karma (real old Eastern karma) for those of us that apparently don't know.
See now that is why I say JUST SHOOT THEM!!! One bullet, one person, perfect karma!!!
Quote from: hunter s.durden on March 18, 2009, 08:18:13 PM
Let's explain karma (real old Eastern karma) for those of us that apparently don't know.
WIKI says.... :lulz:
Sorry I couldn't help myself.... But actually they give a decent definition so.....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karma (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karma)
Yeah it seems I had the wrong idea about Eastern karma... that'll teach me to blabber half-cocked...
I don't even remember where I heard about the supposed Eastern idea of karma, but what I had heard (or possibly read) was that karma wasn't a cosmic power, but was a behaviour. For instance, if someone steps on your foot on the subway, you can let it make you mad so that you are more likely to bump into someone afterwards and not care about it (bad karma) or you could realize that the person probably didn't intend to step on your foot and not let it put you in a bad mood and pass that vindictiveness on to others (good karma). And, while I still like that idea better and think it is more applicable in day to day life it is not, apparently, the true eastern view, which seems to have a lot to do with reincarnation and mystical mumbo jumbo.
Quote from: Dr Hoopla on March 18, 2009, 08:29:29 PM
Yeah it seems I had the wrong idea about Eastern karma... that'll teach me to blabber half-cocked...
I don't even remember where I heard about the supposed Eastern idea of karma, but what I had heard (or possibly read) was that karma wasn't a cosmic power, but was a behaviour. For instance, if someone steps on your foot on the subway, you can let it make you mad so that you are more likely to bump into someone afterwards and not care about it (bad karma) or you could realize that the person probably didn't intend to step on your foot and not let it put you in a bad mood and pass that vindictiveness on to others (good karma). And, while I still like that idea better and think it is more applicable in day to day life it is not, apparently, the true eastern view, which seems to have a lot to do with reincarnation and mystical mumbo jumbo.
Now I agree with you on that. Karma is more of a cause and effect, not a what goes around comes around to bite you in the ass. Is that your thinking Hoops?
My thing with the goes around, comes around thing is it follows so close to the whole wiccan thing of the law of three, whatever you do comes back three fold on you... If that is really karma then is sucks ass!
I always thought the traditional definition had to do with reincarnation - that your Karma is like your life "score". if you die with a high score, in the next life you'll ascend to the next level of being.
The Western interpretation can be boiled down to "what you reap is what you sow".
My old roommate believes in "Karma Hacking" - this idea that if he intentionally endures suffering, the universe will magically balance out and he'll have pleasure later in life. This has caused him to settle for lots of bad shit instead of fighting for better shit. It pisses me off to no end to watch him do this to himself.
I really snapped at him once because was going to move into a one-room apartment in Harlem where he had no friends "so that he can live somewhere nice later". He was kind of depressed and figured that moving into a miserable isolated situation would be better than "using up" his karma now by living somewhere nice instead. I got really angry with him, told him that his beliefs were bullshit, and he got mad at me.
THAT'S KARMA, BITCHES :lulz:
Quote from: K-Bitch on March 18, 2009, 09:09:20 PM
Quote from: Dr Hoopla on March 18, 2009, 08:29:29 PM
Yeah it seems I had the wrong idea about Eastern karma... that'll teach me to blabber half-cocked...
I don't even remember where I heard about the supposed Eastern idea of karma, but what I had heard (or possibly read) was that karma wasn't a cosmic power, but was a behaviour. For instance, if someone steps on your foot on the subway, you can let it make you mad so that you are more likely to bump into someone afterwards and not care about it (bad karma) or you could realize that the person probably didn't intend to step on your foot and not let it put you in a bad mood and pass that vindictiveness on to others (good karma). And, while I still like that idea better and think it is more applicable in day to day life it is not, apparently, the true eastern view, which seems to have a lot to do with reincarnation and mystical mumbo jumbo.
Now I agree with you on that. Karma is more of a cause and effect, not a what goes around comes around to bite you in the ass. Is that your thinking Hoops?
My thing with the goes around, comes around thing is it follows so close to the whole wiccan thing of the law of three, whatever you do comes back three fold on you... If that is really karma then is sucks ass!
Yeah, it doesn't make sence.
There are people who are smelly dicks their whole life, and never get the punishment that these karma-like ideas supposedly dish.
If karma is at all, it is the traditional Eadtern idea: it only effects you in the after-life.
Quote from: Cramulus on March 18, 2009, 09:20:49 PM
I always thought the traditional definition had to do with reincarnation - that your Karma is like your life "score". if you die with a high score, in the next life you'll ascend to the next level of being.
The Western interpretation can be boiled down to "what you reap is what you sow".
My old roommate believes in "Karma Hacking" - this idea that if he intentionally endures suffering, the universe will magically balance out and he'll have pleasure later in life. This has caused him to settle for lots of bad shit instead of fighting for better shit. It pisses me off to no end to watch him do this to himself.
I really snapped at him once because was going to move into a one-room apartment in Harlem where he had no friends "so that he can live somewhere nice later". He was kind of depressed and figured that moving into a miserable isolated situation would be better than "using up" his karma now by living somewhere nice instead. I got really angry with him, told him that his beliefs were bullshit, and he got mad at me.
THAT'S KARMA, BITCHES :lulz:
The above explains karma in full. Stop browsing wiki, damnit.
Hoops, what you're talking about sounds similar to something RAW wrote about in one of the Cosmic Trigger books*. He was talking about his daughter Luna who got beat up one day. RAW was pissed, but Luna seemed to have completely worked through it, and removed all the anger from her system. She simply wasn't bothered by it, and wasn't going to let it bother her. RAW called it "stopping the wheel of Karma".
*Yes, RAW. Shut up.
Ahhh, maybe that's where I got it from then... thanks LMNO.
But I hate the idea of karma as a reincarnation thing, too. I was talking with my uncle and aunt who are Sikhs, and who I love, a few yearsago, and they basically said that if you're born poor/sick, it's because you were a bad person in a previous life. :evilmad:
Quote from: Nigel on March 14, 2009, 10:52:17 PM
I don't find it especially amusing, invigorating, or positive when people are hungry or homeless or physically harmed, especially kids.
It's easy for people to have a smugly salacious view of social collapse and the ensuing mayhem when they're snug in their homes with enough to eat. Go hungry and cold for a few weeks and see if you have as much fun as you think you will. Maybe watch some of your loved ones die and see if it motivates you.
yes, yes, and (especially) YES.
try to remember that not everyone fits neatly into your perception of how people ought to act or think.
sometimes laughing is the only thing that keeps you from screaming
I always figured social collapse would be like Katrina, except without the National Guard coming in to put a lid on things.
Actually, I'm fairly sure that the fastest way to social collapse would be a series of natural disasters, considering how badly just Katrina strained America's resources.
Quote from: BADGE OF HONOR on March 22, 2009, 10:45:25 PM
I always figured social collapse would be like Katrina, except without the National Guard coming in to put a lid on things.
Actually, I'm fairly sure that the fastest way to social collapse would be a series of natural disasters, considering how badly just Katrina strained America's resources.
in the midst of an economic CRISIS
:omg:
Shut up and fuck off you tool.
Quote from: BADGE OF HONOR on March 23, 2009, 04:02:35 AM
Shut up and fuck off you tool.
But you're right... and it would be especially fucked up in this CRISIS
Yes, we all know you're just waiting for the anarchy.
Quote from: BADGE OF HONOR on March 23, 2009, 04:24:47 AM
Yes, we all know you're just waiting for the anarchy.
The collapse will come whether we want it or not. It won't result in anarchy, just a lot of people suffering. I don't really wanna see that. I do however want to see the people eat the powerful alive
The powerful are going to stay powerful no matter the state of the civilization.
Quote from: BADGE OF HONOR on March 23, 2009, 04:36:58 AM
The powerful are going to stay powerful no matter the state of the civilization.
Well aren't they lucky!? It's probably convenient for them that you believe that too.
Are saying because the housing bubble burst the collapse of civilization is at hand?
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/26793903/the_big_takeover/print
The global economic crisis isn't about money - it's about power. How Wall Street insiders are using the bailout to stage a revolution
The reality is that the worldwide economic meltdown and the bailout that followed were together a kind of revolution, a coup d'état. They cemented and formalized a political trend that has been snowballing for decades: the gradual takeover of the government by a small class of connected insiders, who used money to control elections, buy influence and systematically weaken financial regulations.
The crisis was the coup de grâce: Given virtually free rein over the economy, these same insiders first wrecked the financial world, then cunningly granted themselves nearly unlimited emergency powers to clean up their own mess. And so the gambling-addict leaders of companies like AIG end up not penniless and in jail, but with an Alien-style death grip on the Treasury and the Federal Reserve — "our partners in the government," as Liddy put it with a shockingly casual matter-of-factness after the most recent bailout.
The mistake most people make in looking at the financial crisis is thinking of it in terms of money, a habit that might lead you to look at the unfolding mess as a huge bonus-killing downer for the Wall Street class. But if you look at it in purely Machiavellian terms, what you see is a colossal power grab that threatens to turn the federal government into a kind of giant Enron — a huge, impenetrable black box filled with self-dealing insiders whose scheme is the securing of individual profits at the expense of an ocean of unwitting involuntary shareholders, previously known as taxpayers.
Quote from: BADGE OF HONOR on March 23, 2009, 04:36:58 AM
The powerful are going to stay powerful no matter the state of the civilization.
Um, yeah. Let 'em eat cake. Or words to that effect.
Quote from: Cain on March 23, 2009, 10:28:09 AM
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/26793903/the_big_takeover/print
The global economic crisis isn't about money - it's about power. How Wall Street insiders are using the bailout to stage a revolution
The reality is that the worldwide economic meltdown and the bailout that followed were together a kind of revolution, a coup d'état. They cemented and formalized a political trend that has been snowballing for decades: the gradual takeover of the government by a small class of connected insiders, who used money to control elections, buy influence and systematically weaken financial regulations.
The crisis was the coup de grâce: Given virtually free rein over the economy, these same insiders first wrecked the financial world, then cunningly granted themselves nearly unlimited emergency powers to clean up their own mess. And so the gambling-addict leaders of companies like AIG end up not penniless and in jail, but with an Alien-style death grip on the Treasury and the Federal Reserve — "our partners in the government," as Liddy put it with a shockingly casual matter-of-factness after the most recent bailout.
The mistake most people make in looking at the financial crisis is thinking of it in terms of money, a habit that might lead you to look at the unfolding mess as a huge bonus-killing downer for the Wall Street class. But if you look at it in purely Machiavellian terms, what you see is a colossal power grab that threatens to turn the federal government into a kind of giant Enron — a huge, impenetrable black box filled with self-dealing insiders whose scheme is the securing of individual profits at the expense of an ocean of unwitting involuntary shareholders, previously known as taxpayers.
Thus highlighting the terminal flaw in the concept of capitalism. - everything can (and will) be sold and bought. This includes people, government, rights, laws .. the whole shooting match.
Eventually ending with Capitalism's only logical conclusion - One person/group will end up owning the fucking lot. All the food, all the humans, all the goods and resources, all the armies and weapons.
Globalisation is only the first step, trust me, it'll get worse after that's been implemented.
Apparently I'm the only one who saw this shit coming the very first time I heard about the concept of money. Yay me!
one day p3nt is going to be sitting on a pile of wreckage, smoking a J and saying "I called it!"
Cain, thanks for posting something that absolutely chilled my blood. Your sense of horror is impeccable. You should write for Goosebumps.
Quote from: Cain on March 23, 2009, 10:28:09 AM
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/26793903/the_big_takeover/print
The global economic crisis isn't about money - it's about power. How Wall Street insiders are using the bailout to stage a revolution
The reality is that the worldwide economic meltdown and the bailout that followed were together a kind of revolution, a coup d'état. They cemented and formalized a political trend that has been snowballing for decades: the gradual takeover of the government by a small class of connected insiders, who used money to control elections, buy influence and systematically weaken financial regulations.
The crisis was the coup de grâce: Given virtually free rein over the economy, these same insiders first wrecked the financial world, then cunningly granted themselves nearly unlimited emergency powers to clean up their own mess. And so the gambling-addict leaders of companies like AIG end up not penniless and in jail, but with an Alien-style death grip on the Treasury and the Federal Reserve — "our partners in the government," as Liddy put it with a shockingly casual matter-of-factness after the most recent bailout.
The mistake most people make in looking at the financial crisis is thinking of it in terms of money, a habit that might lead you to look at the unfolding mess as a huge bonus-killing downer for the Wall Street class. But if you look at it in purely Machiavellian terms, what you see is a colossal power grab that threatens to turn the federal government into a kind of giant Enron — a huge, impenetrable black box filled with self-dealing insiders whose scheme is the securing of individual profits at the expense of an ocean of unwitting involuntary shareholders, previously known as taxpayers.
Whoomp, there it is.