I have a pointer for any of you who tend to get into a lot of arguments with religious fundamentalists. Namely, you should memorize as much of the Book of Ecclesiastes (http://www.kingjamesversionofthebible.com/21-ecclesiastes.html) as you can, as it provides counterpoints and refutations to many of the parts of the Bible that the more pompous fundamentalists are prone to quoting, yet it itself is in the Bible, so the fundamentalists can't contest it.
To give a few excerpts;
QuoteEcclesiastes 2:16 For there is no remembrance of the wise more than of the fool for ever; seeing that which now is in the days to come shall all be forgotten. And how dieth the wise man? as the fool.
QuoteEcclesiastes 3:16 And moreover I saw under the sun the place of judgment, that wickedness was there; and the place of righteousness, that iniquity was there.
QuoteEcclesiastes 3:18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.
Ecclesiastes 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.
QuoteEcclesiastes 6:6 Yea, though he live a thousand years twice told, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?
QuoteEcclesiastes 9:2 All things come alike to all: there is one event to the righteous, and to the wicked; to the good and to the clean, and to the unclean; to him that sacrificeth, and to him that sacrificeth not: as is the good, so is the sinner; and he that sweareth, as he that feareth an oath.
QuoteEcclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
QuoteEcclesiastes 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
(cf. Book of the SubGenius, "don't just eat a Hamburger, eat the hell out of it!")
QuoteEcclesiastes 10:19 A feast is made for laughter, and wine maketh merry: but money answereth all things.
QuoteEcclesiastes 7:15 All things have I seen in the days of my vanity: there is a just man that perisheth in his righteousness, and there is a wicked man that prolongeth his life in his wickedness.
Ecclesiastes 7:16 Be not righteous over much; neither make thyself over wise: why shouldest thou destroy thyself ?
I'd just like to repeat that last one again for emphasis...
QuoteEcclesiastes 7:16 Be not righteous over much; neither make thyself over wise: why shouldest thou destroy thyself ?
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Ecclesiastes is like the emo version of the Bible. You can just imagine the author sitting around in a dark room wearing black eyeliner and cutting himself.
Quote from: Iason Ouabache on March 19, 2009, 05:30:04 AM
Ecclesiastes is like the emo version of the Bible. You can just imagine the author sitting around in a dark room wearing black eyeliner and cutting himself.
There's no reason to call it emo.
Such a book needs a side that keeps the overall arrogance in check.
Ecclesiastes = necessary downer.
And remember, that was written by "The Wisest Man In The World" according the both Jews and Christians. Though, I note his view does appear closely related to the view supposedly held by many Jews in the BC era. Depending on what you read and how you read it...
I think Ecclesiastes is very similar to the philosophy of Existentialism.
Ecclesiastes: Everything is meaningless. You might as well eat, drink and be merry for soon you'll die and all will be forgotten. There is a God.
Existentialism: Everything is meaningless. You might as well eat, drink and be merry for soon you'll die and all will be forgotten. There is no God.
Also my understanding is that "wisdom" in Old Testament terms is best translated as "intelligence." And some Christian scholars believe that the book may have been written "in the style of Solomon," not actually by Solomon.
But that's just window dressing. It says what it says, and it's in the Bible. We can quote it back to those who quote scripture at us.
Prelate Diogenes Shandor, we now know you're a troublemaker. We'll be keeping our Eye on you.
Quote from: Ratatosk on March 19, 2009, 06:34:32 PM
And remember, that was written by "The Wisest Man In The World" according the both Jews and Christians. Though, I note his view does appear closely related to the view supposedly held by many Jews in the BC era. Depending on what you read and how you read it...
And despite being the "Wisest Man in the World", he married about 500 women. Which in the end drove him mad. I think him more clever than wise though, in marrying so many daughters of Pharoh's, chiefs, and Kings, Israel had peace...For his reign.
Regardless, isn't "All is vanity" nihilistic? I read that Solomon's works represent the stages of a man's life, with Song of Songs representing the youthful...follies, Proverbs, the wisdom of maturity, and Ecclisiastes, the cynicism of old age.