More and more I'm thinking we should give it to them.
I'm talking about all these bronze age knuckleheads who want to throw us back to the equivalent of dark age scientific knowledge and technology.
One thing that modern science has done is spoil people.
All the disciplines merge together to give us knowledge which leads not only to a better understanding of our reality, but to technologies and advantages that saves lives - or just make our life a little easier.
We have put satellites into space, come to some understanding of bacterial evolution, come up with ways to modify yield as to feed more people.
We have also come to understand crucial knowledge about the processes on, above and under our own planet - understanding which could help prevent disasters.
If people don't want this, then perhaps they don't deserve it. Maybe living without our cellphones, vaccines, abundance of food will in the end be good for people.
They will see that just about everything which makes their life more comfortable then the people who's mythology they so admire comes from hard work, observation and rational experimentation, not by trying to reformat your reality to suit what you want to believe.
They will see that praying to some invisible space daddy is not going to cure their cancer, allow for telecommunication, or save them from themselves. Janet Folger wass just wrong - the bible is not the cutting edge of scientific knowledge.
So those who want reality to conform to your believe system, remember the old adage, "be careful what you wish for."
:mittens: I've been feeling this a lot lately too. I'm tempted to say we should let the Dominionists have what they want. Let's give them a section of Montana or South Carolina. Let them have their own little isolated area where they can teach their kids about "Godly" science and history. Give them their own theocracy to play in and watch it crumble completely within 20 years.
Then I remember that they will probably take a lot of guns with them.
If we ask nicely, Canada might let us borrow a bit of Quebec for a while.
I've been saying this for a while now.
They don't want science? Let them have leeches!
Nooooo! Science is what saved my husband when he was dying 2 years ago!
I say we do with them what the Fundies want done with everyone they can't stand atm (gays, Muslims, Obama) and put them on an island and blow them up.
But seriously, anti-science people are actually a crack-up, mostly because of the lail streaming from their nostrils if they ever HAVE to go without their teevee, cell phones or automatic windows and doorlocks for just a little while. They start to implode.
I tended to focus on fundies... because they are just are really easy target...
but New Agers, and most Wiccan/Neopagans fall into the same category... and those fucknuts from that 2012 documentary I watched last night
:lulz: Yeah...the New Agers crack me up no end as well.
Quote from: fomenter on March 25, 2009, 06:09:48 AM
http://www.halos.com/
/face palm
late night tv has restored my faith in humanity
new earthers
tv show on why the earth is only 6000 yrs old best ROLF i have had in some time
this was the cherry on the top of my day yesterday
if any one wants some good scientific comedy they have videos on line :D
I would have to read more of his articles and do some research to form an opinion
but already i could tell you that he assumes that granite is formed by crystallization, which is what would be written in most books on the subject, but that is just because it is usually formed by crystallization. Some granite is formed by replacement, but is very rare.
As for Polonium Halos, I know they are only found in Granite up where I am on the Canadian shield where there is high uranium content and in rocks that have been exposed and reworked by glaciation and other environmental factors for millions of years, and only in the Granite not the Basalt or the Mica.
To be honest I don't know why they are there... I'm not even sure if anyone knows for conclusively why... but it's funny that to my knowledge it's only found in one kind of rock in generally one place.
I've always believed this would be a good idea - so long as people who didn't believe or agree, or came to eventually disagree after seeing it in practice, could leave easily. A sort of open market on social organization, if you wiill. Sadly, it rarely ever works out that way, and since most available land already belongs to someone too...
I agree with this, except in the freaky part of "then we're stuck there" and all that.
We'd need to put them behind walls. Or in Alaska or Australia or something, so that they are separated from everyone else. It's like a disease--they must be quarantined. And then... hell yes, let them get what they wish for.
Quote from: Thurnez Isa on March 25, 2009, 05:14:01 PM
I would have to read more of his articles and do some research to form an opinion
but already i could tell you that he assumes that granite is formed by crystallization, which is what would be written in most books on the subject, but that is just because it is usually formed by crystallization. Some granite is formed by replacement, but is very rare.
As for Polonium Halos, I know they are only found in Granite up where I am on the Canadian shield where there is high uranium content and in rocks that have been exposed and reworked by glaciation and other environmental factors for millions of years, and only in the Granite not the Basalt or the Mica.
To be honest I don't know why they are there... I'm not even sure if anyone knows for conclusively why... but it's funny that to my knowledge it's only found in one kind of rock in generally one place.
Ok missed English to read his short two articles in Science... Mainly cause his question is legitimate.. they both came out late 60's and early 70's, and non of them mention anything about young earth philosophy, and then all his later articles came out in Creation Science articles... so I got suspicious.
I did some research and found he took his samples from young dikes with high uranium... I think uranium precipitated into the granite, granite is not as solid as people think.
MMMM I will find out though, hell Im missing class due to this shit... well it's English so who gives a fuck
Quote from: Thurnez Isa on March 25, 2009, 05:42:49 PM
Quote from: Thurnez Isa on March 25, 2009, 05:14:01 PM
I would have to read more of his articles and do some research to form an opinion
but already i could tell you that he assumes that granite is formed by crystallization, which is what would be written in most books on the subject, but that is just because it is usually formed by crystallization. Some granite is formed by replacement, but is very rare.
As for Polonium Halos, I know they are only found in Granite up where I am on the Canadian shield where there is high uranium content and in rocks that have been exposed and reworked by glaciation and other environmental factors for millions of years, and only in the Granite not the Basalt or the Mica.
To be honest I don't know why they are there... I'm not even sure if anyone knows for conclusively why... but it's funny that to my knowledge it's only found in one kind of rock in generally one place.
Ok missed English to read his short two articles in Science... Mainly cause his question is legitimate.. they both came out late 60's and early 70's, and non of them mention anything about young earth philosophy, and then all his later articles came out in Creation Science articles... so I got suspicious.
I did some research and found he took his samples from young dikes with high uranium... I think uranium precipitated into the granite, granite is not as solid as people think.
MMMM I will find out though, hell Im missing class due to this shit... well it's English so who gives a fuck
http://www.csun.edu/~vcgeo005/gentry/conclusi.htm
well that didn't take long
it's not a well written article but it seems my hypothesis of precipitating uranium into young dikes might actuality be right
:eek:
QuoteThe samples of biotite that contain Gentry's Po halos came from pegmatite dikes and calcite vein-dikes that cross-cut metamorphosed volcanic, sedimentary and igneous rock units - the dikes are clearly the last to form, not the first;
QuoteThere are several lines of evidence supporting the idea that a uranium-rich fluid precipitated the Polonium:
1. The very fact that Gentry's halos occur in areas of unusually high uranium mineraliration and metamorphism (including his fluorite samples shown in his book, which came from the Wolsendorf fluorite deposit) in Germany (B. Dressier, personal communication, 1988));
2. There are no halos for the thorium decay chain, even though, because of the insolubility of thorium compounds (Brown, 1987), the thorium to uranium ratio is over 5:1 in the Faraday pegmatite:
3. No halos have been found in lunar rocks:
4. The dikes of the sites listed above have different origins (magmatic -- Faraday, pegmatites and hydrothermal -- Silver Crater/Fission) which suggest that the halos may be connected with a post magmatic or later common origin;
5. The uranium mineralization is primarily a precipitation event (mainly in mafic minerals like biotite) in a reducing environment near the contact of the wall-rock and in fractures and cleavages in the case of the Faraday pegmatite (Masson and Gordon, 1981);
6. Oxygenated fluids rich in fluorine, phosphorus, and carbon dioxide readily dissolve uranium and increase the fluid's mobility (Masson and Gordon, 1981).
(Originally published in the May 1988 Issue of the Journal of Geological Education)
See being a member of the Geological Society of America has it's perks
like a kick ass search engine
One of the main reasons I want to go back to University is for free access to JSTOR again. :x
i knew a real geologist would find holes in the arguments (i am related to one). the part where they have dinosaurs and humans coexisting till the big flood had me laughing manically and face palming bruises into my forehead last night..
Quote from: fomenter on March 25, 2009, 06:29:01 PM
i knew a real geologist would find holes in the arguments (i am related to one). the part where they have dinosaurs and humans coexisting till the big flood had me laughing manically and face palming bruises into my forehead last night..
you mean there is more then the halo's argument?
Quote from: Thurnez Isa on March 25, 2009, 06:30:28 PM
Quote from: fomenter on March 25, 2009, 06:29:01 PM
i knew a real geologist would find holes in the arguments (i am related to one). the part where they have dinosaurs and humans coexisting till the big flood had me laughing manically and face palming bruises into my forehead last night..
you mean there is more then the halo's argument?
i found the site from the advertisement at the end of the TV show, dinosaur footprints in Utah was the real side splitter argument for me, they have a bunch of their videos up on the site i am not sure which one i saw...
Re. OP: I LIKE the idea, I worry about the execution. Not that technology or science shouldn't be approached with proper care and rigeur, but when the people yelling "STOP" or "DON'T" have only mythology and interpretation of old unrelated scripture to back it up, they should STFU. Their god has personally given the YEA or NAY to NOTHING recently, and they've lost the footnotes from when he suppsoedly DID.
..doesn't this already kind of happen with the Amish?
I didn't see any of the videos there.
just the argument about halo's - which at least was fun to look into
now I know why I was suspicious when his works stopped being published in science journals during the 70's
I might have fun watching them tonight
Though I have heard many bullshit arguments over the year. My favorite is when Kent Hogan said that if you do an experiment and mixed up different kinds of sediment in a jug and simulate flood conditions you will recreate the layering you see today. Which is hilarious cause if you actually do that experiment, like you would in first year geology, you will find you don't get layering you get one graded layer. His own experiment debunks him.
Quote from: Richter on March 25, 2009, 06:37:38 PM
..doesn't this already kind of happen with the Amish?
on thing about the Amish is they lucked out with a relatively small population in a prominently fertile region.
It's gong to be interesting to see what happens with the almost inedible change in weather patterns will will effect soil fertility
http://www.halos.com/videos/index.htm videos
another side splitter
radio active dating is false because the constant in radio active decay isn't constant (W/O any evidence that it isn't) therefore because they use a constant in the equation the math is rong the earth is 6000 yrs old :lulz:
QuoteIn this documentary Drs. Robert and David Gentry unlock this message by their amazing astronomical discovery that the universe has a nearby center that can be identified with the location of the Great White Throne, God's dwelling place in the heavens described in the book of Revelation.
They even go so far as to suggest that this discovery may have apocalyptic implications: Did the Creator long ago plan for this sign in the heavens to be discovered as a signal that the present age is nearing its close and will soon end with the second coming of Christ in power and glory? It's a challenging possibility that none should ignore.
This what I'm watching tonight
:lulz:
I'll tell you what I think after
QuoteIn this documentary Drs. Robert and David Gentry unlock this message by their amazing astronomical discovery that the universe has a nearby center that can be identified with the location of the Great White Throne
(http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f312/Tonito44/ThatsRacist.gif)
Are they saying the universe is in the shitter?
Quote from: Thurnez Isa on March 25, 2009, 06:46:16 PM
Quote from: Richter on March 25, 2009, 06:37:38 PM
..doesn't this already kind of happen with the Amish?
on thing about the Amish is they lucked out with a relatively small population in a prominently fertile region.
It's gong to be interesting to see what happens with the almost inedible change in weather patterns will will effect soil fertility
They also have a tight knit community... a tribe that cares for its members. That seems like a pretty good survival tool to me.
BTW, Talk Origins has an article on the polonium halos:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/po-halos/
Quote from: Darth Cupcake on March 25, 2009, 05:25:56 PM
I agree with this, except in the freaky part of "then we're stuck there" and all that.
We'd need to put them behind walls. Or in Alaska or Australia or something, so that they are separated from everyone else. It's like a disease--they must be quarantined. And then... hell yes, let them get what they wish for.
Can we add my parent to the quarantine list? Plllllease?
Quote from: Thurnez Isa on March 25, 2009, 06:54:34 PM
QuoteIn this documentary Drs. Robert and David Gentry unlock this message by their amazing astronomical discovery that the universe has a nearby center that can be identified with the location of the Great White Throne, God's dwelling place in the heavens described in the book of Revelation.
They even go so far as to suggest that this discovery may have apocalyptic implications: Did the Creator long ago plan for this sign in the heavens to be discovered as a signal that the present age is nearing its close and will soon end with the second coming of Christ in power and glory? It's a challenging possibility that none should ignore.
This what I'm watching tonight
:lulz:
I'll tell you what I think after
watched the doc about the center of the universe being god
not as funny as i thought... except when they started quoting the bible to
prove their points
:lulz:
of course my physics isn't the greatest, for we take "physic's of life", which is basically laws and some theories, but very little theoretical physics, and no quantum
my initial thoughts
first most galaxies are moving away from us because they are moving away from each other - and at different rates
and he completely forgot about the Andromeda Galaxy, which is not moving some imaginary center, cause its going to eventually collide with our galaxy in something like 3 billion years... It's moving towards us. Now I could understand how they forgot about that since you know its one of the
closest galaxies in relation to us and its fucking
hugealso the big bang is not an explosion "in" space it is an explosion "of" space, both space and time are created in the big bang
also dr Gentry assumes that the volume and density of galaxies do not change with time. This untrue and has been observed in it's more extreme form by the collision of two galaxies
also in order for the galaxies to move away from this cosmic (the host calls it a cosmic geologic :?) center there has be the creation of matter in order to full up the gaps
also according to dr Gentry the background radiation is not from the big bang but a shell of hydrogen, which just plain impossible. For the galaxies not to hit the edge of the shell the shell itself would have to expand, meaning more hydrogen would have to be just wished into existence in order to maintain a radioactive shell
also his theory contradicts the theory of relativity
also his observations are based on the position of the observed galaxy and he has to take into effect the incredible distance of the observations
He's grasping for straws, something physical to give legitimacy to his beliefs. Im thinking for him if it's not physical it's not real so there has to be some physical observation of God
doing some research I found out unfortunately he has his training in geology :sad: (well geophysics) Thing is geophysics is not the same as astrophysics.
I can see how people get suckered into this though. Even with some scientific training astrophysics is complicated, and this confusion can be easily manipulated,.
I'm almost positive the physics doesn't make sense (most of what he finds objectionable about modern astronomy can easily be explained by gravity) but to me the chemistry is what doesn't make sense. You can't just have matter come into existence, which would need to occur if his theory was true, and the universes weight will not (as he claims) cause the universe to collapse, cause there is nothing to collapse into.
http://www.halos.com/videos/center-of-the-universe-160x120-24k.htm
the video I was talking about
I would be interested if someone with greater knowledge of astrophysics would give they're opinion on my observations
:mittens:
I really liked the closing statement.