So we have some gourmet type folks on this board, and i figured i'd give it a whirl asking yous guys opinions.
I need to get a new range, and am thinking of going the flat top route, and wonder if you guys have any good/bad experiences with any particular ones or if you have any specific recommendations.
details:
wife does the cooking (i suck)
she cooks often, so it would get lots of use
currently have coil electric type and have decided that it sucks because of dirty factor. i realize that the ceramic flat type are a pita to clean, but at least they can be cleaned proper.
we don't have gas so that's out of the question.
expecting to spend around 600. (i have no idea what they go for and what the quality/price breaks are)
i figured the cooking gurus could best point me in the proper direction for researching.
nobody?
professional stoves are mostly gas (as far as i know) for flat tops ?? i don't have a clue maybe some body else...
A flat surface stove like this one
(http://i.ehow.com/images/GlobalPhoto/Articles/4503807/Flatburners26-main_Full.jpg)
works pretty well for me, and I haven't noticed any particular pain in my ass from cleaning it.
I don't know dick about smooth top stoves. I've only used regular electric coil stoves (hate) and gas.
Thx Cainad.
what brand is it?
anything that you don't like about it?
how long have you had it?
I can't recall the brand, as the stove is at home and I am at college. We've had it for less than a year (so I wouldn't know about any long-term problems), but I really can't think of anything to say against it. It works, and doesn't acquire all that lovely burnt-on gunk.
I'm pretty devoted to gas stoves, but Cainad's got the right idea. Wiping that sucker down would be EASY.
I've never had one long term, but I'd hazard that scratches COULD accumulate. Good luck trying to use a wok, but a flatiron laid over 2 burner could be fun.
I have a ceramic, and I hated it at first. It's harder to regulate the temps when you're cooking, esp when you're used to gas, as I was. But after 6 years, it's not so bad. And it's not that easy to clean, after all, because shit sticks to it, and you can't scratch at it or use something super-abrasive, you have to use spayshul cleaner that takes much rubbing. Or maybe we just are sloppy when we use it, who knows?
Ours is a KitchenAid.
get gas or GTFO.
It's not like it costs that much to get it installed.
Quote from: East Coast Hustle on April 19, 2009, 11:24:12 PM
get gas or GTFO.
It's not like it costs that much to get it installed.
this.
dunno about cost, over here all houses have gas for heating etc, but cooking on electric sucks dickballs.
around here, you have to pay for the installation of the line(s) and the gas company provides their own tank. Assuming one side of your kitchen is against an outside wall, it shouldn't cost more than a couple hundred dollars for the install, plus a couple hundred to fill a 100-gallon tank (if you are only using this for your gas stove/oven 100 gallons will last for quite a while). Then you can buy a pretty good gas stove for half the cost of a mediocre flattop with a crappy electric oven and recoup some of the cost of the gas installation. And your gastronomic life will be much improved.
I did find that a proper electric oven performs just as well as a gas oven, though. When my gas oven in my old old crappy kitchen got replaced by an electric one in my shiny new (but now burnt down) kitchen, I was afraid it would suck, but I didnt find any difference in performance, except that the electric one was easier to use :) might be different for professional models, though.
I'm not entirely sure what kind of oven I will get in my new kitchen, I think it'll be electric. I made damn sure the stove would be gas, though.
the cost of getting gas, WATCH OUT i had gas put in at a house and ended up paying a special tax to cover the cost of bringing gas lines through the mountains into town, after the tax the cost of gas wasn't cheap... it was a temporary tax for "x number" of years that everyone payed but not nice..
My parents had a ceramic top and it was the biggest pain in the fucking ass EVAR!!! Like Jenne said regulating temps was a bitch, I never got the hang of it and neither did my mom. Cleaning, damn she scratched hers using the spray they told her to use and a soft cloth, it was what she was trying to get off that scratched the fucker. THEN, when she had a burner fuck up and she had to have it fixed it cost her a couple hundred......
I agree with the gas fans here, if you own your home, get gas, there is nothing to compare to it!
I guess what I have isn't a ceramic top, then. :? All I know is that it's flat and smooth.
I agree about getting gas, but depending on where you are and your circumstances it may be expensive to have it run to the house. Here in Portland natural gas installation is about $1500, but if you get a gas furnace, or a gas water heater + stove, the gas company will absorb the fee to run it from the street. Running the line in the house shouldn't cost more than a few hundred, but if your budget is $600, it's not gonna happen.
Still, if you own the house and are looking at long-term, you might consider holding off and making that part of your long range plan, especially if there's a chance that you might have to replace your furnace and/or water heater in the next few years anyway.
Oh hey, how about induction? Induction ranges have always tripped me out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induction_cooker
ETA never mind, I looked at prices and you could probably have gas installed AND buy a new stove for what an induction range goes for.
Wow. I like the idea, I wonder about the control and energy efficiency though. Also, wouldn't the field heat up any steel / iron cooking implements used too?
ECH's first idea sounded like a propane setup, not connenction to a central natural gas pipe. Availability / cost likely varies, but it WOULD be the difference between piping the whole house from the street vs. a tank, one hole through the wall, and gas line to the stove.
It does sound like that. I don't know if it's an option in cities where municipal gaslines are available... worth looking into, for sure!
Quote from: Cainad on April 20, 2009, 06:46:31 PM
I guess what I have isn't a ceramic top, then. :? All I know is that it's flat and smooth.
No, yours looks ceramic. And there are those that really love theirs and use it for decades, my grandmother being one of them. I just hated going from it to gas--gas is just so much easier all the way around.
But the costs in converting to gas for us would be about $20K, all told, someone who recently put gas in told us. They have to run the gas line from clear across the house. Sucks ass, and in fact, we only have gas in the laundry room, where the water heater is, and in our outdoor built-in bbq. None of those sources are even close to our kitchen, more's the pity.
Quote from: Richter on April 20, 2009, 09:04:33 PM
Wow. I like the idea, I wonder about the control and energy efficiency though. Also, wouldn't the field heat up any steel / iron cooking implements used too?
ECH's first idea sounded like a propane setup, not connenction to a central natural gas pipe. Availability / cost likely varies, but it WOULD be the difference between piping the whole house from the street vs. a tank, one hole through the wall, and gas line to the stove.
yeah, I was talking about propane or LPG. We don't have municipal natural gas infrastructure here.
hell, we just don't have municipal infrastructure here, period.
also, it should be mentioned that gas stoves can be easily repaired by even a novice handyman. They are very simple devices, whereas you wil likely have to either pay a professional repairman or buy a new one if your flattop range shits the bed.
Quote from: Jenne on April 21, 2009, 02:43:13 AM
Quote from: Cainad on April 20, 2009, 06:46:31 PM
I guess what I have isn't a ceramic top, then. :? All I know is that it's flat and smooth.
No, yours looks ceramic. And there are those that really love theirs and use it for decades, my grandmother being one of them. I just hated going from it to gas--gas is just so much easier all the way around.
But the costs in converting to gas for us would be about $20K, all told, someone who recently put gas in told us. They have to run the gas line from clear across the house. Sucks ass, and in fact, we only have gas in the laundry room, where the water heater is, and in our outdoor built-in bbq. None of those sources are even close to our kitchen, more's the pity.
20K? that's bullshit, especially if you already have gas to your house. Unless your kitchen is a quarter-mile from your hot water heater. They generally charge by how many feet of gas line need to be installed.
Unless the house is designed weird. Older houses especially, you may have to remove whole sections of wall / ceiling / floor to run any new pipes or wires.
Quote from: Jenne on April 21, 2009, 02:43:13 AM
Quote from: Cainad on April 20, 2009, 06:46:31 PM
I guess what I have isn't a ceramic top, then. :? All I know is that it's flat and smooth.
No, yours looks ceramic. And there are those that really love theirs and use it for decades, my grandmother being one of them. I just hated going from it to gas--gas is just so much easier all the way around.
But the costs in converting to gas for us would be about $20K, all told, someone who recently put gas in told us. They have to run the gas line from clear across the house. Sucks ass, and in fact, we only have gas in the laundry room, where the water heater is, and in our outdoor built-in bbq. None of those sources are even close to our kitchen, more's the pity.
I can't imagine how it could cost 20k to convert to gas, even if you were getting all-new gas appliances. I had my garage plumbed for gas, with seven outlets, for $600. A new high-efficiency furnace is usually under 6k installed, and the water heater and stove together wouldn't be more than 2k, so, 20k sounds ridiculous.
Hell, I converted my last house to gas and got a new furnace, and the TOTAL cost including new service from the street would still have been under 5k, which I didn't have to pay for all of because the gas company ran the service for free.
If you already have gas service at the house, you should be able to have pipe run for a gas stove for just a few hundred. I'd call a few plumbers and see if you can get an estimate, because 20k, seriously, is insane.
Quote from: Richter on April 21, 2009, 01:33:43 PM
Unless the house is designed weird. Older houses especially, you may have to remove whole sections of wall / ceiling / floor to run any new pipes or wires.
I still can't imagine. It doesn't cost twenty thousand dollars to completely replumb or rewire a house, unless it's a mansion. There's just no way that figure is accurate. Well, I guess if it included everything from the street, a high-end furnace, a six thousand dollar range, the highest-end on-demand water heater, and a couple of fireplaces.
But, I mean, running a line from laundry room to kitchen, under the house, shouldn't be more than a couple hundred. Maybe more if there's no basement and it's not a straight shot, but not THOUSANDS.
Quote from: Nigel on April 21, 2009, 06:29:17 PM
Quote from: Richter on April 21, 2009, 01:33:43 PM
Unless the house is designed weird. Older houses especially, you may have to remove whole sections of wall / ceiling / floor to run any new pipes or wires.
I still can't imagine. It doesn't cost twenty thousand dollars to completely replumb or rewire a house, unless it's a mansion. There's just no way that figure is accurate. Well, I guess if it included everything from the street, a high-end furnace, a six thousand dollar range, the highest-end on-demand water heater, and a couple of fireplaces.
But, I mean, running a line from laundry room to kitchen, under the house, shouldn't be more than a couple hundred. Maybe more if there's no basement and it's not a straight shot, but not THOUSANDS.
Yeah, it would have to assume some ridiculous shit. Like you are (all at once) having pipe laid up your 1/4 mile driveway in a wooded, rocky area, put into your 1830's historical landmark house, having to rip out all kinds of old plaster, hardwood floor, etc. (not to mentioned a new hole through the foundation), and immediately replace it with historically accurate materials and techniques, including wallpapering, varnish, and molding before the local historical society flies down you throat.
(Yes, I've seen this happen. Price stacks up FAST. You can never truly buy a historic property.)
Quote from: East Coast Hustle on April 21, 2009, 01:23:52 PM
Quote from: Jenne on April 21, 2009, 02:43:13 AM
Quote from: Cainad on April 20, 2009, 06:46:31 PM
I guess what I have isn't a ceramic top, then. :? All I know is that it's flat and smooth.
No, yours looks ceramic. And there are those that really love theirs and use it for decades, my grandmother being one of them. I just hated going from it to gas--gas is just so much easier all the way around.
But the costs in converting to gas for us would be about $20K, all told, someone who recently put gas in told us. They have to run the gas line from clear across the house. Sucks ass, and in fact, we only have gas in the laundry room, where the water heater is, and in our outdoor built-in bbq. None of those sources are even close to our kitchen, more's the pity.
20K? that's bullshit, especially if you already have gas to your house. Unless your kitchen is a quarter-mile from your hot water heater. They generally charge by how many feet of gas line need to be installed.
Yup. That's what it costs. And it's $$$/feet here. I don't know why, but it is. And it's not a quarter-mile, but I have a rather large house (3K sq feet).
Quote from: Nigel on April 21, 2009, 06:24:15 PM
Quote from: Jenne on April 21, 2009, 02:43:13 AM
Quote from: Cainad on April 20, 2009, 06:46:31 PM
I guess what I have isn't a ceramic top, then. :? All I know is that it's flat and smooth.
No, yours looks ceramic. And there are those that really love theirs and use it for decades, my grandmother being one of them. I just hated going from it to gas--gas is just so much easier all the way around.
But the costs in converting to gas for us would be about $20K, all told, someone who recently put gas in told us. They have to run the gas line from clear across the house. Sucks ass, and in fact, we only have gas in the laundry room, where the water heater is, and in our outdoor built-in bbq. None of those sources are even close to our kitchen, more's the pity.
I can't imagine how it could cost 20k to convert to gas, even if you were getting all-new gas appliances. I had my garage plumbed for gas, with seven outlets, for $600. A new high-efficiency furnace is usually under 6k installed, and the water heater and stove together wouldn't be more than 2k, so, 20k sounds ridiculous.
Hell, I converted my last house to gas and got a new furnace, and the TOTAL cost including new service from the street would still have been under 5k, which I didn't have to pay for all of because the gas company ran the service for free.
If you already have gas service at the house, you should be able to have pipe run for a gas stove for just a few hundred. I'd call a few plumbers and see if you can get an estimate, because 20k, seriously, is insane.
That might have been with the cost of the appliance as well, but still, it's not cost-effective, unless you are getting a "get the whole damned thing redone" package. The insane price is why we are not doing it. :P
Quote from: Nigel on April 21, 2009, 06:29:17 PM
Quote from: Richter on April 21, 2009, 01:33:43 PM
Unless the house is designed weird. Older houses especially, you may have to remove whole sections of wall / ceiling / floor to run any new pipes or wires.
I still can't imagine. It doesn't cost twenty thousand dollars to completely replumb or rewire a house, unless it's a mansion. There's just no way that figure is accurate. Well, I guess if it included everything from the street, a high-end furnace, a six thousand dollar range, the highest-end on-demand water heater, and a couple of fireplaces.
But, I mean, running a line from laundry room to kitchen, under the house, shouldn't be more than a couple hundred. Maybe more if there's no basement and it's not a straight shot, but not THOUSANDS.
:lol: Well, that's what was quoted to me. :lol: Guess I should have called them a liar or something??? And no, this is CA, we don't do basements, not in the Southern part, anyway. And yes, for me, it would be from the garage to the kitchen, and they are diametrically opposite each other.
But most have to take out a 2d mortgage around here in order to redo their kitchens with gas lines for the stove/oven. That's just how it goes out here.
Quote from: Richter on April 21, 2009, 01:33:43 PM
Unless the house is designed weird. Older houses especially, you may have to remove whole sections of wall / ceiling / floor to run any new pipes or wires.
That's what we were told, it was the construction of the way the house was orignally built.
Let's put it this way: it cost us $13K to get our a/c hooked up and running. THIRTEEN thousand. Home improvement is not cheap out here if you hire someone to do it for you.
Quote from: Jenne on April 21, 2009, 10:21:53 PM
:lol: Well, that's what was quoted to me. :lol: Guess I should have called them a liar or something??? And no, this is CA, we don't do basements, not in the Southern part, anyway. And yes, for me, it would be from the garage to the kitchen, and they are diametrically opposite each other.
But most have to take out a 2d mortgage around here in order to redo their kitchens with gas lines for the stove/oven. That's just how it goes out here.
Quote from: Jenne on April 21, 2009, 02:43:13 AM
But the costs in converting to gas for us would be about $20K, all told, someone who recently put gas in told us.
I'm not saying that your friend who had gas put in was lying about how much it cost them to convert, I'm saying that if a professional tells you they're going to charge you $20,000 to run a line from your laundry room to your kitchen, get a second quote.
Redoing a kitchen is one thing. Running a gas line is another.
Quote from: East Coast Hustle on April 21, 2009, 01:21:14 PM
also, it should be mentioned that gas stoves can be easily repaired by even a novice handyman. They are very simple devices, whereas you wil likely have to either pay a professional repairman or buy a new one if your flattop range shits the bed.
protip: if you wanna be sure the pipe doesnt secretly leak gas, smear a bit of dishwashing liquid around the seams, there will be bubbles if it leaks.
(also, depending on the model, you may or may not need "gas pipe tape", which is a special kind of tape to seal the pipe)
not that I'm that much of a handyman, but this is what I was told to do when connecting a gas stove to your gas connection.
Quote from: Nigel on April 21, 2009, 11:04:57 PM
Quote from: Jenne on April 21, 2009, 10:21:53 PM
:lol: Well, that's what was quoted to me. :lol: Guess I should have called them a liar or something??? And no, this is CA, we don't do basements, not in the Southern part, anyway. And yes, for me, it would be from the garage to the kitchen, and they are diametrically opposite each other.
But most have to take out a 2d mortgage around here in order to redo their kitchens with gas lines for the stove/oven. That's just how it goes out here.
Quote from: Jenne on April 21, 2009, 02:43:13 AM
But the costs in converting to gas for us would be about $20K, all told, someone who recently put gas in told us.
I'm not saying that your friend who had gas put in was lying about how much it cost them to convert, I'm saying that if a professional tells you they're going to charge you $20,000 to run a line from your laundry room to your kitchen, get a second quote.
Redoing a kitchen is one thing. Running a gas line is another.
Yeah, well this was a discussion on redoing specifically the electric to gas stove and oven. So like I said--and people around here get LOTS of quotes--it cost them $20K to do it (Ok, more like $17.5, so we can quibble over 2.5K). *shrug* Believe it or not, I don't care.
ETA: and redoing the whole kitchen? Initial quote: $35K. That's recent (this $20K above, oh I'm SORRY, $17.5K, was 3 years ago), and this was their initial quote. Initial STARTING quote. Because we all know you can be QUOTED anything, and the $17.5 was "all told" as I said--in the END it cost them $17.5 K.
I'm sure you're telling the truth, but I'm only capable of responding to what you've actually posted, not information you haven't posted.
I am just skeptical at the idea that it could cost almost 20 grand to run a pipe from the laundry room to the kitchen, and I sincerely doubt your friend's installation was nearly that simple or it wouldn't have cost that much. Of course your friend's costs, I'm just doubting it was as simple as extending a line from existing gas service in the house.
The mechanics of running a line don't vary much from Oregon to California. I ran my kitchen line myself for $15, but even paying my plumber to do it would have been a lot cheaper than my garage was, and, like I said, that was seven lines for $600. Due to my line of work, I have discussed gasline installation and extension with a lot of people all over the country, and I have never heard of a line extension that cost more than $950 (that was to the second floor) with most being just a few hundred.
Unless your plumber charges $3000/hr., takes all day, and does structural damage, it should not be terribly expensive.
I don't know exactly what your friend had done, but no matter where you live, there is little conceivable reason why simply extending an existing gasline on the main floor of a house should cost thousands. It should cost hundreds. Unless you get a quote for your situation from a licensed plumber, I'm just not convinced you should assume your friend's costs would be applicable for you. :)
This website is helpful, and fairly accurate in my experience:
http://www.costhelper.com/cost/home-garden/install-gas-line.html
Basically, all I'm saying is that if you want a gas stove, don't listen to your friend, call a plumber and get a quote.
Quote from: Triple Zero on April 21, 2009, 11:25:28 PM
Quote from: East Coast Hustle on April 21, 2009, 01:21:14 PM
also, it should be mentioned that gas stoves can be easily repaired by even a novice handyman. They are very simple devices, whereas you wil likely have to either pay a professional repairman or buy a new one if your flattop range shits the bed.
protip: if you wanna be sure the pipe doesnt secretly leak gas, smear a bit of dishwashing liquid around the seams, there will be bubbles if it leaks.
(also, depending on the model, you may or may not need "gas pipe tape", which is a special kind of tape to seal the pipe)
not that I'm that much of a handyman, but this is what I was told to do when connecting a gas stove to your gas connection.
yes on both. And AFAIK, you should always use thread tape for joining metal pipes.
I have to agree with ECH, your ability to control temperature quickly is far superior in a gas than an electric stove, and therefore your stove top cooking experience is much improved.
BREAKING NEWS
Disregard the picture I posted earlier ITT. I'm at home now and I can plainly see that we have a Kenmore brand glass-top cooking range. Cleaning consists entirely of a sponge+soap+water. Heat control is indeed less than you would get from a gas range, but that doesn't stop my dad from doing some pretty good cooking on it.
stir frying on a electric stove leaves much to be desired
it doesn't matter much when you are slow cooking though
Quote from: Kai on April 26, 2009, 12:06:17 AM
stir frying on a electric stove is pretty much completely impossible.
Fixed for accuracy.
Induction if you're not going gas. Induction is the only electric top I've liked working with.
ikea has some but i have no clue as to quality
If it's too expensive to run a pipe to your kitchen buy a cheap camping stove. Even one of those pieces of crap is better than an electric hob :roll:
I once lived in a house with a gas stove and no gas infrastructure.
with 2 fittings, 4 feet of copper pipe, and a Blue Rhino propane tank I had a perfectly serviceable gas stove/oven and those Rhino tanks would generally last me a month and cost $20 to swap for a new full tank anywhere that has a Blue Rhino outlet, which is damn near everywhere.
ETA: IIRC, AmeriGas is more prevalent on the West Coast but has the same price structure ($40 for a new tank, $20 to swap your empty for a new full one)
I'd recommend black iron pipe through the wall with an inside shutoff. Might cost $50 for the pipe and shutoff, depending on the length of the run, but then you do have to drill a hole through your exterior wall. And you'll need a regulator for the tank, I think pancake regulators are about $15.
Totally doable though. I studied under a plumber for two years... it's so much easier than most people think. Like Tinkertoys, but you have to be really meticulous.
Do nevar have propane tanks indoors, whatever you do. My work means that every time someone accidentally blows their neighborhood to kingdom come it's the talk of glasstown. :x
when it's 20 below zero outside, the idea of blowing yourself up seems alot more palatable than the idea of having to go outside to fuck with your propane tank.
Why would you have to? If it's hardlined and you put in an inside shutoff, you shouldn't have to mess with it except when you're switching it out.
you missed the part where I said I was using some scrap copper line and a blue Rhino tank, huh?
I read what you said, I was making recommendations for anyone else who wanted to use propane, for hardlining it through the wall.
I hate my gas stove. It's a piece of shit.
It's so bad, in fact, that Richter named it "Amelia Earhart" because the pilot is always out.
first, check to make sure it's not sitting right where you have a heavy draft.
if there's not a bad draft there, check under the burners to make sure that the tubes that feed the gas from the burner to the pilot (allowing the gas to backlight and set off the burners) are in good shape. If they're rusted out and have holes in them, that will channel any slight air current right to the pilot and frequently make it go out.
Oh it's a rusted piece of shit. Eventually I will ask the landlords for a new one, but the hookup on the wall is antiquated, so we could be fucked.
installing a new hookup is pretty easy. Don't let your landlord use that as any sort of excuse.
i had an electric coil doodad stove when i moved in but it kept shocking me so i asked the landlord for a new one.
i got a flat top. this one.
(http://ep.yimg.com/ip/I/yhst-11923714847262_2050_3264303)
i hope he didn't pay much for it.
it gets the job done but it isn't fantastic.
HOWEVER it doesn't shock me when i turn the knob or grab the handle on my skillet, so i can't complain.
it cooks fine enough once you get used to the heat controls and the oven is nice.
i miss gas. i had it in an apartment years and years ago.