http://intellectualventureslab.com/?p=71
QuoteWe found out that a local laboratory known as Hackerbot Labs had built a device which uses electromagnetic forming in order to shrink quarters down to the size of a dime. This device would be ideal for us to test our new highspeed video camera and other equipment, while collecting interesting data on how this device is functioning.
Rob Flickenger was kind enough to bring over their device and allow us to film it. What is presented below has likely never been seen by the human eye.
The electromagnetic pulse shrinks the quarter in about 30 microseconds. This event happens so quickly we had to shoot our video at over 100,000 frames per second. Interesting engineering solutions had to be developed to capture this video – - clear acrylic rods, first surface mirrors and special triggers to fire off massive amounts of light from the camera flash.
The Quarter Shrinker was constructed by Rob Flickenger and other folks at Hackerbot Labs.
Quarter Shrinking has three steps.
1. make a coil of wire,
2. stick quarter inside it,
3. discharge an enormous amount of electric current through the coil.
But what does that actually do, other than making a big boom?
Passing current through a coil of wire produces a magnetic field. In this case, with so much current, the magnetic field produced is gigantic: the coil becomes a magnificently powerful electromagnet.
The creation of a magnetic field in the coil-now-magnet induces a circling current to flow around the coin sitting inside the coil. This current in the coin also produces a magnetic field (i.e., the coin becomes another electromagnet). The kicker is that the coin's magnetic field and the coil's magnetic field point in opposite directions, so the coin and the coil repel each other furiously.
This repulsion creates forces which overcome the strength of the metal; the coil is expanded out and explodes, and the coin is pushed in and shrunk.
There are a pair of awesome videos on the site. I usually don't care for electromagnetic mumbo jumbo, but the explosions are really pretty. Here is the finished product btw.
(http://intellectualventureslab.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/qs1.jpg)
That's actually kind of upsetting.
Finally.
A way to demonstrate what is happening to the value of American Currency.
AND IT USES CURRENTS.
Quote from: Nigel on June 23, 2009, 10:49:07 PM
That's actually kind of upsetting.
The term you were looking for is "amazingly wonderful."
Now that I think about it, they really should have taken a picture from edge-on. If none of the mass was zapped away in the process* the coin should be alot thicker than the original. The magnetic field would have squished all of the mass towards the center of the coin. I'm not going to do the math but it should be at least twice as thick as a normal quarter.
* - It probably lost a small amount from the extreme heat but not enough to notice.
Quote from: Nigel on June 23, 2009, 10:49:07 PM
That's actually kind of upsetting pointless.
your currency is in freefall anyhow
Quote from: Iason Ouabache on June 24, 2009, 12:02:13 AM
the coin should be alot thicker than the original.
Or just denser.
Quote from: A Pesky Nonvoting Screeching on June 23, 2009, 10:56:54 PM
Finally.
A way to demonstrate what is happening to the value of American Currency.
AND IT USES CURRENTS.
YES IT IS A BEAUTIFUL ILLUSTRATION OF CURRENT EVENTS
(bwaahaahhahaha)
(sorry but I think I am hilarious today. blame coffee and sleep deprivation)
Quote from: MMIX on June 24, 2009, 01:23:01 AM
Quote from: Nigel on June 23, 2009, 10:49:07 PM
That's actually kind of upsetting pointless.
your currency is in freefall anyhow
That's not related to why it's upsetting.
OK i am curious why is it upsetting?
Because they say the quarter is shrunken. It's not shrunken, it's only reshaped.
:lulz: its not as exiting saying "its diameter has been reduced"
"Honey, I Shrunk the Kid's College Fund."
Quote from: Nigel on June 25, 2009, 01:25:40 AM
Quote from: Arafelis on June 25, 2009, 01:22:21 AM
I think I missed a meme. Or something.
Maybe chemistry.
Eh? Part of the inside of a quarter is empty space.
Quote from: Arafelis on June 25, 2009, 01:37:12 AM
Quote from: Nigel on June 25, 2009, 01:25:40 AM
Quote from: Arafelis on June 25, 2009, 01:22:21 AM
I think I missed a meme. Or something.
Maybe chemistry.
Eh? Part of the inside of a quarter is empty space.
What part? The copper part, or the nickel part?
The shrunk one does look thicker. It looks like the edges rounded a little.
Quote from: Arafelis on June 25, 2009, 01:37:12 AM
Quote from: Nigel on June 25, 2009, 01:25:40 AM
Quote from: Arafelis on June 25, 2009, 01:22:21 AM
I think I missed a meme. Or something.
Maybe chemistry.
Eh? Part of the inside of a quarter is empty space.
Um, you can't make a solid piece of metal denser without changing its crystal structure somehow, or vaporizing it and subjecting it to enormous pressures. And I don't happen to know of any metals having alternate possible crystal structures like that. There's a reason periodic tables are able to list density for metals. (As a non-metal example, diamond and graphite have different structures and slightly different densities, despite both being solid carbon.)
And the empty space is where the electrons repel each other. If you actually compressed something enough so that that space shruck, the object would immediately explode in a fit of static electrical potential. Or make a fusion bomb, if you made it dense enough and were using the right metal. (Looking at you, Lithium-6.)
He must be talking about ALCHEMY. :lulz:
I guess if you formed an alloy of two different metals, the resulting alloy could have a different density than the average of the two metals you started with. This is related to how spheres of different sizes pack together (and crystal structures too.)
To see that in action mix .5 L pure water and .5 L pure methanol in a 1 L beaker. You'll have room left over.
Quote from: GA on June 25, 2009, 01:56:45 AM
I guess if you formed an alloy of two different metals, the resulting alloy could have a different density than the average of the two metals you started with. This is related to how spheres of different sizes pack together (and crystal structures too.)
To see that in action mix .5 L pure water and .5 L pure methanol in a 1 L beaker. You'll have room left over.
Doesn't happen with metals.
Quote from: GA on June 25, 2009, 01:53:51 AM
The shrunk one does look thicker. It looks like the edges rounded a little.
And the empty space is where the electrons repel each other. If you actually compressed something enough so that that space shruck, the object would immediately explode in a fit of static electrical potential. Or make a fusion bomb, if you made it dense enough and were using the right metal. (Looking at you, Lithium-6.)
No, I didn't mean molecular space. I forget the metallic composition, but quarters are composed of two layers of material. The material near that bond can be compressed, which I assumed was because there is actually unfilled space either in one layer (probably the inner one) or at the point of the bond.
Or so my teenage attempts at mad science lead me to believe. I did not, at the time, use particularly extensive rigour.
Three layers. I already said what metals; nickel and copper. There is no "empty space" inside. You make me want to cry.
This thread makes me want to cut some more pennies in half with tin snips.
It's art, you see. Because I'm pretty sure it's illegal. Therefore I am edgy and artistic.
The quarters puff up like pillows. I saw an edge-on pic once.
dont spoil the fun, they shrink when the aether is squeezed out of them..
Quote from: fomenter on June 25, 2009, 03:30:17 AM
dont spoil the fun, they shrink when the aether is squeezed out of them..
:lulz:
Quote from: Nigel on June 25, 2009, 02:13:17 AM
Three layers. I already said what metals; nickel and copper. There is no "empty space" inside. You make me want to cry.
I know... the revelation that I'm sometimes wrong shakes my belief in the world, too.
Still, I wonder why I didn't measure any increase in diameter when I tore those coins up.
Arefalis, what does it mean to you that even the new people find you insufferable?
Quote from: Nigel on June 25, 2009, 04:28:49 AM
Arefalis, what does it mean to you that even the new people find you insufferable?
It means blither blather platitude something to indicate smug indifference. Also, snarky comeback.
Quote from: fomenter on June 25, 2009, 03:30:17 AM
dont spoil the fun, they shrink when the aether is squeezed out of them..
GOLD :lulz: :lulz:
Cainad got it.
Also, some of them don't. Which should I be paying attention to?
Quote from: Arafelis on June 25, 2009, 04:38:06 AM
ass-talking
Everyone hates you.
Also, jump off a bridge already.
Quote from: null & void on June 25, 2009, 04:43:38 AM
Quote from: Arafelis on June 25, 2009, 04:38:06 AM
ass-talking
Everyone hates you.
Also, jump off a bridge already.
Of your last fifteen posts, Madonna, nine have been about me. If I didn't know better, I'd assume you had a crush.
Quote from: Arafelis on June 25, 2009, 04:49:37 AM
stupid insinuation
Oh boy, wait until Kai sees that one. :lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
EDIT: Almost forgot two very important things.
1st: it's Erin, Nigel. Not a new person, unless joining in March counts as "new" with respect to this.
2nd: ARAFAILIS:
Jump off a bridge already.
Quote from: null & void on June 25, 2009, 04:51:39 AM
2nd: ARAFAILIS:
repeated indictment to die
Here's some new ones:
"Aptless! Die in a fire!"
"Arafloss, masturbate with a lawnmower."
"Areyoudeadyet: Piss on a socket."
"Araphaelis... go consume improperly prepaired sushi.
Then stab yourself." (This one makes more sense if you know Raphael was my least favorite Turtle.)
Feel free to mix'n'match, or come up with entirely new ones.
Quote from: Arafelis on June 25, 2009, 05:06:46 AM
Quote from: null & void on June 25, 2009, 04:51:39 AM
2nd: ARAFAILIS:
repeated indictment to die
bullshit
Way to fuck up the english language there, genius. :lulz:
Jump off a bridge already.
Quote from: null & void on June 25, 2009, 05:10:14 AM
Way to fuck up the english language there, genius. :lulz:
I knew it couldn't be that hard to get you to quote directly from me! Would you prefer one of "charge, reprimand, invective, cursing, damning, complaint, insinuation"? They're synonyms, but I felt like "indictment" had the best flow.
Quote from: Arafelis on June 25, 2009, 05:18:42 AM
fucking the english language
None of those are right. I'm not insinuating you should die. I'm
telling you to die, very quickly, as soon as possible, post-haste even. Surely your advanced super-space-brain can understand the subtle distinction.
Jump off a bridge already.
Quote from: Arafelis on June 25, 2009, 05:06:46 AM
Quote from: null & void on June 25, 2009, 04:51:39 AM
2nd: ARAFAILIS:
repeated indictment to die
Here's some new ones:
"Aptless! Die in a fire!"
"Arafloss, masturbate with a lawnmower."
"Areyoudeadyet: Piss on a socket."
"Araphaelis... go consume improperly prepaired sushi.
Then stab yourself." (This one makes more sense if you know Raphael was my least favorite Turtle.)
Feel free to mix'n'match, or come up with entirely new ones.
How about this one: Arafelis, stop being so offputtingly condescending. You may be used to being the smartest kid in your hometown but here you're dealing largely with people who are both highly intelligent and highly educated, so you're basically making yourself look very foolish by trying to play expert.
Basically, if you're critiquing a bunch of scientists, sociologists and artists for not producing a volunteer-effort literary masterpiece, you are either deluded about what's happening here, or deliberately selecting the one arena in which you might possibly excel, and missing the point of grassroots publications while you're at it. There are a few excellent writers here, and most of the rest are quite competent, but it's still not a school of writing; it's a Discordian internet forum.
So suck it the fuck up and try to contribute meaningfully, asshole.
If this was a literary forum and the goal was to produce a journal of high literature, your nitpicking might have a valid point. Sadly, it isn't, and it doesn't.
hey its like nostalgicbadger
Oh, hey Erin. No, you're not that new. :)
Quote from: Nigel on June 23, 2009, 10:49:07 PM
That's actually kind of upsetting.
GIVE ME THAT FUCKING MACHINE!
I think you're wasting your time, Nigel. His overwhelming stupidity coupled with his cancerous self-importance make it exceptionally difficult for me to see him ever shutting the fuck up and learning. I've read through at least 40 different pleas in various topics for him to please stop being such a big-headed jackass. Often, he replies condescendingly. When he doesn't, he ignores it entirely.
Your plea will be ignored too, because he is an idiot.
Also, hi.
Quote from: Thurnez Isa on June 25, 2009, 05:29:26 AM
hey its like nostalgicbadger
Naw. NB was just a republican. Arafailus is way fucking worse. Reading his insufferable bullshit is like having gonorrhea in your eyeballs.
AND SOMEBODY GET ME THAT MACHINE! I HAVE TO SHRINK MY NEIGHBOR'S CAR.
Quote from: Nigel on June 25, 2009, 05:28:02 AM
How about this one: Arafelis, stop being so offputtingly condescending.
Ok. If I can ask for something in return, it would only be the occasional benefit of the doubt. I really did think you could compress a quarter. =P
Quote from: Arafelis on June 25, 2009, 07:16:23 AM
Quote from: Nigel on June 25, 2009, 05:28:02 AM
How about this one: Arafelis, stop being so offputtingly condescending.
Ok. If I can ask for something in return, it would only be the occasional benefit of the doubt. I really did think you could compress a quarter. =P
We're only willing to give you the benefit of the doubt if you're willing to doubt yourself occassionally. Which doesn't seem to be the case, since you consistently come off as a pretentious blowhard.
@Null & Void: <3
But Kai, surely the blowhard aspect could not just have happened by accident. It must have been designed that way by a higher power.
Quote from: Kai on June 25, 2009, 02:59:19 PM
Quote from: Arafelis on June 25, 2009, 07:16:23 AM
Quote from: Nigel on June 25, 2009, 05:28:02 AM
How about this one: Arafelis, stop being so offputtingly condescending.
Ok. If I can ask for something in return, it would only be the occasional benefit of the doubt. I really did think you could compress a quarter. =P
We're only willing to give you the benefit of the doubt if you're willing to doubt yourself occassionally. Which doesn't seem to be the case, since you consistently come off as a pretentious blowhard.
@Null & Void: <3
That's putting it mildly.
Also, <3
Quote from: LMNO on June 25, 2009, 03:04:25 PM
But Kai, surely the blowhard aspect could not just have happened by accident. It must have been designed that way by a higher power.
Dear god, it's like my mother and Arafailis came together like some sort of organic Voltron!
:horrormirth:
Curse you LMNO!
My work here is done.
Quote from: LMNO on June 25, 2009, 03:04:25 PM
But Kai, surely the blowhard aspect could not just have happened by accident. It must have been designed that way by a higher power.
Of course, it only stands to reason that such incredible amounts of pretensionl MUST have been designed by a retarded deity! No working of natural selection nor genetic or social drift could bring about such a collection of utter fail.
Quote from: Nigel on June 25, 2009, 05:28:02 AM
Quote from: Arafelis on June 25, 2009, 05:06:46 AM
Quote from: null & void on June 25, 2009, 04:51:39 AM
2nd: ARAFAILIS:
repeated indictment to die
Here's some new ones:
"Aptless! Die in a fire!"
"Arafloss, masturbate with a lawnmower."
"Areyoudeadyet: Piss on a socket."
"Araphaelis... go consume improperly prepaired sushi.
Then stab yourself." (This one makes more sense if you know Raphael was my least favorite Turtle.)
Feel free to mix'n'match, or come up with entirely new ones.
How about this one: Arafelis, stop being so offputtingly condescending. You may be used to being the smartest kid in your hometown but here you're dealing largely with people who are both highly intelligent and highly educated, so you're basically making yourself look very foolish by trying to play expert.
To build on this point:
I maxed out the professional IQ test I was given in school. In real life, I'm consistently recognized as one of the sharpest and most knowledgeable of my peers.
I hang out at PD.com because the people here are consistently smarter and more knowledgeable than me. Being a small fish in a big pond is more exciting.
Shut your pie hole, dummy.
My cat's breath smells like catfood.
I like turtles!
When I grow up I'm going to Bovine University.
You completely derailed our Arafelis bashing, Hoopla.
This is the worst forum ever.
This is what I do.
Also, Nigel, I LOVE that video!
Turtle Kid is awesome!
Quote from: GA on June 25, 2009, 01:53:51 AM
And I don't happen to know of any metals having alternate possible crystal structures like that.
Some alloys do. Traditional solder (tin+lead) will do this if you mishandle it (which fucks up electronics to no end if you do). Wootz Damascus steel (steel carbon, + trace amounts of some other stuff) also changes its structure if you beat it with a hammer for about a week.
Damascus steel is a huge let down. It doesn't even cut through rocks, like they said it did. :sad:
Still better than the Wapanese katana obsession though, by far.
Damascus was never sharper than a good quality kitchen knife. Just durable as hell.
Quote from: Cain on June 25, 2009, 10:58:48 PM
Damascus steel is a huge let down. It doesn't even cut through rocks, like they said it did. :sad:
Still better than the Wapanese katana obsession though, by far.
Wootz steel: For when you need your sword to say "woot."
Quote from: Requia on June 26, 2009, 12:36:14 AM
Damascus was never sharper than a good quality kitchen knife. Just durable as hell.
Yeah. What would you rather have, a blade that is sharp enough to cut anything, or a sharp blade that never dulls?
Seems like the latter would last longer and be more effective.
The sharper a material is capable of being the better it keeps is edge actually. Both are a function of the hardness of a material.
Strength refers to a metal's ability to withstand a blow. Strength is important since it doesn't matter if your blade is as sharp as glass if it breaks when you block a swing. At that point your opponent can beat you to death with the flat of his blade if he feels like it.
Normally with steel the harder you make the metal the more brittle it becomes, Damascus is unique in that its both one of the strongest and hardest steels we know of.
Damascus can refer to both the technique and the historical example of steel. I've never gotten to handle or test a period example of a sword made with this method from Damascus, so I can't comment there.
Damascus (technique) doesn't neceessaily mean steel is GOOD, it just means it's layered. If you have some semi crappy, and some good steel, folding and welding them together enough will give you a cutting edge covered by striations of good/ bad steel. In theory, the bad flakes off with use, exposing more good, giving good, lasting cutting performance. The alternating layers and "grains" to the steel also (in theory) give it stength like metalic plywood.
If you buy a cheap, Mall Sword Shop "Damascus" sword, it will likely be made of shit layered with more shit. Manufacturing can only make things less shitty to an extent.
Modern industry and metalurgy has access to both better materials and techniques. There are well made monosteel swords out there that likely perform as well as most historical examples. Just remember that historical examples were very rarely King Bonehard's miraculous helmet splitter. They were just a often as today's military weapons, the mass produced of debatable quality. You can shell out for the good stuff made with the Damascus method too, if you must. Myself I can't justify the expense. I rarely practice cutting and don't need to take my fellow immortal's heads on a daily basis.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 25, 2009, 05:53:55 AM
AND SOMEBODY GET ME THAT MACHINE! I HAVE TO SHRINK MY NEIGHBOR'S CAR.
10 miles of power lines and the BIGGEST damn capacitors you can find. The hugeass electric company ones. Get lots. This is SCIENCE there's no half assing.
Quote from: Richter on July 01, 2009, 01:53:40 PM
Damascus (technique) doesn't neceessaily mean steel is GOOD, it just means it's layered. If you have some semi crappy, and some good steel, folding and welding them together enough will give you a cutting edge covered by striations of good/ bad steel. In theory, the bad flakes off with use, exposing more good, giving good, lasting cutting performance. The alternating layers and "grains" to the steel also (in theory) give it stength like metalic plywood.
What you're describing isn't true (often called wootz) damascus, it just looks like damascus and is used to fool the gullible. Usually referred to as welded damascus. It looks awesome, and can be a perfectly good blade (it produces a mid carbon steel which is what you usually want),
Its not made from layers of good and bad steel either, its made from layers of high carbon and low carbon steel. Which are both good, but for different reasons (low carbon is stronger, high carbon is harder).
Those alternating layers do not actually give any bonus of strength either, the layers melt together in the forging process to form a normal (if cool looking) steel. Though the folding process will improve on poor quality steel by forcing out impurities (which is why the Katana uses a folding method to forge, Japanese iron is really shitty).
Modern mall sword fake damascus is usually not welded damascus either, they just take stainless steel and laser etch it to make it look like damascus.
Although I saw some cool blacksmithing at Pennsic last year where they were using the 'damascus' method to make knives etc out of old steel cables and chainsaw chains.
SDunno about their madjicakl durability, but it was cool as hell to watch and play with.
Also, a piece of cable that ends in a forged, sharp blade.
W00T Steel indeed.
Quote from: Requia on July 01, 2009, 10:49:31 PM
Quote from: Richter on July 01, 2009, 01:53:40 PM
Damascus (technique) doesn't neceessaily mean steel is GOOD, it just means it's layered. If you have some semi crappy, and some good steel, folding and welding them together enough will give you a cutting edge covered by striations of good/ bad steel. In theory, the bad flakes off with use, exposing more good, giving good, lasting cutting performance. The alternating layers and "grains" to the steel also (in theory) give it stength like metalic plywood.
What you're describing isn't true (often called wootz) damascus, it just looks like damascus and is used to fool the gullible. Usually referred to as welded damascus. It looks awesome, and can be a perfectly good blade (it produces a mid carbon steel which is what you usually want),
Its not made from layers of good and bad steel either, its made from layers of high carbon and low carbon steel. Which are both good, but for different reasons (low carbon is stronger, high carbon is harder).
Those alternating layers do not actually give any bonus of strength either, the layers melt together in the forging process to form a normal (if cool looking) steel. Though the folding process will improve on poor quality steel by forcing out impurities (which is why the Katana uses a folding method to forge, Japanese iron is really shitty).
Modern mall sword fake damascus is usually not welded damascus either, they just take stainless steel and laser etch it to make it look like damascus.
Low carbon steel isn't "stronger" as such. While it is not hard enough to hold and edge well, it CAN bend without cracking, good for structural pieces, less so for cutting. High carbon steel, as you said, IS harder, but subsequently more brittle. Both kinds of steel can be hardened and softened by different applications of heat, but the carbon contant of the steel (aside from alloys) determining how ultimately hard it can get.
Using different high vs. low carbon for the cutting edge of a tool vs. the spine / back had the purpose of both conserving rare high quality steel (Technique used by both the Japanese and the Norse, among others), and had the bonus of giving a more flexible spine. This is different from Damascus. Which are we talking about?
The Damascus steel doing the same, we have both come out and said. It's impossible to communicate clearly sometimes, read more carefully before you fly around calling people wrong.
Quote from: Richter on July 02, 2009, 12:18:28 AM
Low carbon steel isn't "stronger" as such. While it is not hard enough to hold and edge well, it CAN bend without cracking, good for structural pieces, less so for cutting. High carbon steel, as you said, IS harder, but subsequently more brittle. Both kinds of steel can be hardened and softened by different applications of heat, but the carbon contant of the steel (aside from alloys) determining how ultimately hard it can get.
Using different high vs. low carbon for the cutting edge of a tool vs. the spine / back had the purpose of both conserving rare high quality steel (Technique used by both the Japanese and the Norse, among others), and had the bonus of giving a more flexible spine. This is different from Damascus. Which are we talking about?
The Damascus steel doing the same, we have both come out and said. It's impossible to communicate clearly sometimes, read more carefully before you fly around calling people wrong.
I'm not as certain on this part, but I'm pretty sure the Japanese get the different edge/spine properties by tempering the edge and not the spine. Norse swords I know jack about.
Damascus steel, both wootz and welded forms, rely on a combination of low and high carbon steel, which is why I brought it up.
They did both in some versions, laminating several different steels together, then differentialy heat treating the edge.
http://www.tf.uni-kiel.de/matwis/amat/def_en/articles/steel_collector/japanese_sword.html
I STILL WANT THE QUARTER SHRINKING MACHINE! I NEED IT!
Steal an MRI, I bet you could adapt it to do this.
Quote from: Richter on July 01, 2009, 01:56:19 PM
10 miles of power lines and the BIGGEST damn capacitors you can find. The hugeass electric company ones. Get lots.
Quote from: Richter on July 03, 2009, 03:41:18 AM
Quote from: Richter on July 01, 2009, 01:56:19 PM
10 miles of power lines and the BIGGEST damn capacitors you can find. The hugeass electric company ones. Get lots.
National Grid has them?
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on July 03, 2009, 07:03:47 AM
Quote from: Richter on July 03, 2009, 03:41:18 AM
Quote from: Richter on July 01, 2009, 01:56:19 PM
10 miles of power lines and the BIGGEST damn capacitors you can find. The hugeass electric company ones. Get lots.
National Grid has them?
Yup. Pretty sure some of the big honkers at the electrical sub - stations are the item in question. They must replace them off and on. If not you can always rig an asston of more commmonly available ones.
I'm pretty sure you'd have fun with one of these too
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~bclee/lens.html
THESE NEED TO GO IN CRAZY PREPARED!
Quote from: fomenter on June 25, 2009, 03:30:17 AM
dont spoil the fun, they shrink when the aether is squeezed out of them..
:potd: