http://www.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=11032
No, really. Not a day goes by where we don't throw stones, verbal or otherwise, at the Amerikan Jew Imperialist Lackies! I showed Lizzie the square set aside for that in London.
Or, Carol Gould is an opinionated prick with a persecution complex, who thinks the world is out to get her and not being treated like the Very Important Social Commentator and Journalist she is somehow is a covert show of anti-Semitism and anti-Americanism.
I completely don't believe her accounts of anti-Americanism. Not that I don't think it happens, or that possibly those accounts are based on something other than whole cloth, but they were extremely unrealistic and obviously largely filled in by her imagination.
Jesus H Christ. :lulz:
What a steaming load of shit.
Quote from: Cain on July 06, 2009, 11:15:10 PM
http://www.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=11032
Or, Carol Gould is an opinionated prick with a persecution complex, who thinks the world is out to get her and not being treated like the Very Important Social Commentator and Journalist she is somehow is a covert show of anti-Semitism and anti-Americanism.
These are two separate issues and I'm only dealing with anti-semitism here . . .
Carol Gould may well be an opinionated prick with a persecution complex but the rest of your bile is both irrelevant to your point and unsupported by the article. Don't you find it just ever so slightly disturbing that in the last few months several high profile British Jews have also gone public and voiced similar concerns in the press, not only Maureen Lipman but Howard Jacobson and oh yeah the Chief Rabbi.
From The Times June 20, 2009 Headline - Virulent new strain of anti-Semitism rife in UK, says Chief Rabbi
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article6539415.ece
Yes they might just be feeling pissy cos they aren't getting the best gigs, book contracts, etc, etc, and certainly in the case of Ms Gould as Nigel said her description is hyperbolic and hysterical but the jewish people have a looooong history of persecution and keeping their heads down, so maybe this should set alarm bells going.
Or, you know, maybe its just another one of those Jewish conspiracies for world domination but either way I don't think I'm ready to laugh about it just yet . . .
Quote from: MMIX on July 07, 2009, 03:03:54 AM
These are two separate issues and I'm only dealing with anti-semitism here . . .
Carol Gould may well be an opinionated prick with a persecution complex but the rest of your bile is both irrelevant to your point and unsupported by the article.
Oh, this should be good. :lulz:
You can clean up your own blood when this is over, dumbfuck.
did you? I completely don't remember that. All the more reason to visit again next year.
Quote from: Pope Dysnomia on July 07, 2009, 04:11:55 AM
did you? I completely don't remember that. All the more reason to visit again next year.
This time, leave the Watneys alone. :lol:
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on July 07, 2009, 03:05:18 AM
Quote from: MMIX on July 07, 2009, 03:03:54 AM
These are two separate issues and I'm only dealing with anti-semitism here . . .
Carol Gould may well be an opinionated prick with a persecution complex but the rest of your bile is both irrelevant to your point and unsupported by the article.
Oh, this should be good. :lulz:
You can clean up your own blood when this is over, dumbfuck.
yes, you are absolutely right Roger, I have no fucking idea what Cain's point was, so it was foolish to comment - but the rest of it stands - read it or not, agree with it or not, I've said my piece.
Professor dumbfuck
You really have to learn to read first before stating an opinion
I was sitting here, scratching my head, wondering why this all sounded so weird and unrealistic... then I remembered that during my week in England, nothing anywhere close to this happened even once.
Quote from: Thurnez Isa on July 07, 2009, 05:10:13 AM
You really have to learn to read first before stating an opinion
why?
Quote from: MMIX on July 07, 2009, 05:46:53 AM
Quote from: Thurnez Isa on July 07, 2009, 05:10:13 AM
You really have to learn to read first before stating an opinion
why?
Because now, Cain will want to kill you, and nobody else will bother with your replies because you "make mistakes" with all of them (see the other thread, concerning Thurna). I can't be bothered reading them, because I am giggling too much in anticipation of the upcoming bloodshed. The effect is the same: Nobody will take your opinion seriously.
But by all means, continue.
WTF I was halfway through replying to Cain when his post disappeared . . . :?
Now THAT is a mindfuck!
1. The article was written in 2004.
2. The article was written for Frontpage, a magazine devoted to 'fighting the war of ideas' in the War on Terror. ie by coming up with conspiracy theories about Muslims taking over the world and how its perfectly alright to shoot Palestianians because they all grow up to be terrorists anyway. Its editor is David Horowitz, who has been accused by the SPLC of trying to make bigoted and discredit ideas respectable and by consorting with white supremacists in the USA (not to mention taking their money). In fact, a list of writers for Standpoint magazine includes several notable Neocons, such as Charles Krauthammer, but also several paranoid conspiracy theorists of the far-right, including Bat Ye'or, Fjordman (who supports the fascist Vlaams Belang and equally odious Swedish Democrats) and Ann Coulter.
3. The incidents that are described are so patently false as to be laughable. Not only that, they also fall into the standard American Right trope of anti-Semtic, anti-American Europeans, which was highly prevalent just after the Iraq War and Bush's re-election. Note the repititions of the "dinner table" and "parties" (it is an oft repeated myth among conservative circles that champagne socialists and lefties throw parties purely to chat shit about evil Jooos all night long).
4. Not only are false accusations harmful in and of themselves, they obscure the real threat to Americans and Jews in the UK - the one coming from extremist Muslims and the far right. The latter in particular being ignored by the media at large, as seen most recently by the press giving a free ride to Nick Griffin whenever he is interviewed (just see how often his holocaust denial, or fantastically anti-Semitic book, comes up in articles about him). Of course, that never comes up, because its easier to pin statements on nameless and likely fictitious individuals, and because it doesn't fit the agenda (see below).
5. If you read between the lines, Gough's real agenda become obvious. Namely, that Brits who are insufficiently enthused with the war on terror, Bush and Sharon are secretly frothing racists. She misrepresents Faisal Bodi (whose article is actually pretty reasonable and has devoted time and money to interfaith dialogue), and goes off on her own hate-filled tirades about Europe being filled with anti-semites and latent Holocausters in the making, which some might consider undermine her supposed point about hatred of people based on nationality or ethnicity. She also seems to think that America, and Israel, never did anything wrong before Bush Jr coming to power, which is an amusingly wrong notion.
6. I actually spent 4 years hanging around with Americans, Jewish and otherwise in a decent-sized town with a very mixed population, including many Europeans, Muslims and some Palestinians. Not once did anything like that ever occur. Carol Gould would have us believe the UK is on the tip of a seething frenzy of anti-Semitic hatred. I've walked around London, Manchester and Edinburgh frequently with obviously American and obviously Jewish friends without anyone saying a word. Amazing.
7. STFU with your implications I don't give a shit about racism when its against Jews, or that I'm anti-semitic. I spent months bleeding over research about far-right terrorism in Europe and America, precisely because racist incidents concern me so much. Articles like this do nothing except throw about accusations for short term political benefit, and actually worsen the situation. Bullshit, pity-me sob-stories piss me off, when I spent weeks going through databases to catalogue possible incidents of rightwing terrorism to present an accurate picture of the problem.
Actually, you know what? Fuck this noise. In the past week I've been accused of being an elitist asshole, the next Wade, a spoiled brat and now, apparently, I'm a covert racist too.
Why the fuck I ever bother contributing anything is beginning to escape me.
Quote from: Cain on July 07, 2009, 11:56:47 AM
Actually, you know what? Fuck this noise. In the past week I've been accused of being an elitist asshole, the next Wade, a spoiled brat and now, apparently, I'm a covert racist too.
Why the fuck I ever bother contributing anything is beginning to escape me.
never happened - I didn't say it - I didn't imply it - and I have no reason to suspect it
Quote from: Cain on July 07, 2009, 11:48:18 AM
Quote1. The article was written in 2004.
Granted but the Chief Rabbi's piece was written last month. Your original reply suggested that jews "crying wolf" were harming their own cause - to which my reply would have been another hoary old meme " no smoke without fire" and I would genuinely like your take on his article.
Quote2. The article was written for Frontpage, a magazine devoted to 'fighting the war of ideas' in the War on Terror. ie by coming up with conspiracy theories about Muslims taking over the world and how its perfectly alright to shoot Palestianians because they all grow up to be terrorists anyway. Its editor is David Horowitz, who has been accused by the SPLC of trying to make bigoted and discredit ideas respectable and by consorting with white supremacists in the USA (not to mention taking their money). In fact, a list of writers for Standpoint magazine includes several notable Neocons, such as Charles Krauthammer, but also several paranoid conspiracy theorists of the far-right, including Bat Ye'or, Fjordman (who supports the fascist Vlaams Belang and equally odious Swedish Democrats) and Ann Coulter.
ok
Quote3. The incidents that are described are so patently false as to be laughable. Not only that, they also fall into the standard American Right trope of anti-Semtic, anti-American Europeans, which was highly prevalent just after the Iraq War and Bush's re-election. Note the repititions of the "dinner table" and "parties" (it is an oft repeated myth among conservative circles that champagne socialists and lefties throw parties purely to chat shit about evil Jooos all night long).
That doesn't mean there isn't an undercurrent of anti-semitism / anti-Americanism in Europe in general and GB in particular, and I assume that is not what you are meaning to imply
Quote4. Not only are false accusations harmful in and of themselves, they obscure the real threat to Americans and Jews in the UK - the one coming from extremist Muslims and the far right. The latter in particular being ignored by the media at large, as seen most recently by the press giving a free ride to Nick Griffin whenever he is interviewed (just see how often his holocaust denial, or fantastically anti-Semitic book, comes up in articles about him). Of course, that never comes up, because its easier to pin statements on nameless and likely fictitious individuals, and because it doesn't fit the agenda (see below).
I get what you are saying but wouldn't you agree that the whole "don't ask don't tell" Griffin whitewash also supports my argument that there is a sufficient swell of anti-semitism to cause concern
Quote5. If you read between the lines, Gough's real agenda become obvious. Namely, that Brits who are insufficiently enthused with the war on terror, Bush and Sharon are secretly frothing racists. She misrepresents Faisal Bodi (whose article is actually pretty reasonable and has devoted time and money to interfaith dialogue), and goes off on her own hate-filled tirades about Europe being filled with anti-semites and latent Holocausters in the making, which some might consider undermine her supposed point about hatred of people based on nationality or ethnicity. She also seems to think that America, and Israel, never did anything wrong before Bush Jr coming to power, which is an amusingly wrong notion.
I am not an apologist for Gough's fruitloopery and tbh find [some of ] her views abhorrent but I would question what you suspect her actual agenda is since you don't actually unpack it here. Brits who don't support the war on terror wholeheartedly being the anti-semitic running dogs of Islam is a weird idea but it isn't an agenda. What do you see as the purpose of this drivel is it just preaching to the choir and how, if at all is it related to less florid and, therefore, to my mind, more disturbing articles like the Sir Jonathan Sacks one . . .
Quote6. I actually spent 4 years hanging around with Americans, Jewish and otherwise in a decent-sized town with a very mixed population, including many Europeans, Muslims and some Palestinians. Not once did anything like that ever occur. Carol Gould would have us believe the UK is on the tip of a seething frenzy of anti-Semitic hatred. I've walked around London, Manchester and Edinburgh frequently with obviously American and obviously Jewish friends without anyone saying a word. Amazing.
Yes I went to Uni too and I totally concur based on my personal experience
Quote7. STFU with your implications I don't give a shit about racism when its against Jews, or that I'm anti-semitic. I spent months bleeding over research about far-right terrorism in Europe and America, precisely because racist incidents concern me so much. Articles like this do nothing except throw about accusations for short term political benefit, and actually worsen the situation. Bullshit, pity-me sob-stories piss me off, when I spent weeks going through databases to catalogue possible incidents of rightwing terrorism to present an accurate picture of the problem.
I made no such implication. You are an interesting and obviously complex individual and I suspect your demons are legion but I have NEVER suspected that racism including anti-semitism was part of the package. I genuinely hope you answer re. the Sacks piece
etr any indication that I may share or condone any views contained in the original article
using the quote feature is hard
Quote from: Cain on July 07, 2009, 11:56:47 AM
Actually, you know what? Fuck this noise. In the past week I've been accused of being an elitist asshole, the next Wade, a spoiled brat and now, apparently, I'm a covert racist too.
Why the fuck I ever bother contributing anything is beginning to escape me.
I wouldn't worry Cain
MMIX doesn't actually read what he's commenting on
Quote from: MMIX on July 07, 2009, 01:27:34 PM
Granted but the Chief Rabbi's piece was written last month. Your original reply suggested that jews "crying wolf" were harming their own cause - to which my reply would have been another hoary old meme " no smoke without fire" and I would genuinely like your take on his article.
Wow... I can't even figure out how you came to that conclusion, unless you jumped to it
without even reading the article. The more you go on defending it, the more incredibly foolish you look.
I'm not necessarily the sharpest knife in the block, but
after reading the article I was 100% crystal clear on what Cain's response to it meant.
Quote from: Cain on July 07, 2009, 11:56:47 AM
Actually, you know what? Fuck this noise. In the past week I've been accused of being an elitist asshole, the next Wade, a spoiled brat and now, apparently, I'm a covert racist too.
Why the fuck I ever bother contributing anything is beginning to escape me.
I'd like to see a link to that accusation. The prospect horrifies me so.
Don't give up! We're far from being mired in idiocy, unlike far too many active fora.
2009: I'm going to go out on a limb and say that what antisemitism exists (fair to say, it exists) is more a symptom or warning sign of other political bullshit than a cause for action on its own. Fighting it directly is like using a bandaid. Nonetheless, it makes for good ammunition against the bigoted fucks.
Quote from: Thurnez Isa on July 07, 2009, 04:21:48 PM
using the quote feature is hard
is there a biting your own tongue icon around here?
Quote from: Nigel on July 07, 2009, 04:26:17 PM
Quote from: MMIX on July 07, 2009, 01:27:34 PM
Granted but the Chief Rabbi's piece was written last month. Your original reply suggested that jews "crying wolf" were harming their own cause - to which my reply would have been another hoary old meme " no smoke without fire" and I would genuinely like your take on his article.
Wow... I can't even figure out how you came to that conclusion, unless you jumped to it without even reading the article. The more you go on defending it, the more incredibly foolish you look.
I'm not necessarily the sharpest knife in the block, but after reading the article I was 100% crystal clear on what Cain's response to it meant.
I have read all the articles mentioned - have you???
I even read the reply that Cain deleted . . .
No good bleating about a conclusion if you don't specify which one
I am not defending anything - do you actually understand English?
Cain has not yet, though I hope he will, made any comment on the article by the Chief Rabbi. You must be psychic if you think he has
As you admit, you may not be the sharpest knife in the block . . . . no, no I'm sorry but I just can't I refuse to pick that one up it is just too cheap a shot . . .
Edited to make it look pretty for Cainad - shame he almost certainly can't be bothered to read it . . .
Learn to use the quote feature. Kthx.
I traveled through london, amsterdam & germany in 2006 and felt a moderate amount of anti-american sentiment. Certain people, particularly in Germany, were bristling to deliver their opinion about the US government. I avoided political discussion at all costs. My inarticulate and poorly read boss, however, engaged anybody and everybody at the drop of a hat. He was also talking loudly, wearing bad shorts with a fanny pack, and kept trying to order Coors Light. It was embarassing, to say the least.
I did talk to a few people about politics. Afterwards, one guy said, "You've really made me realize that the media here depicts americans very badly and that it's not always on the money."
In response to "Your president is a facist," I'd usually just say, "Yeah, we didn't vote for him." Some people actually looked surprised about that. It made me wonder about what makes the news in Europe.
Quote from: MMIX on July 07, 2009, 06:15:33 PM
Quote from: Nigel on July 07, 2009, 04:26:17 PM
Quote from: MMIX on July 07, 2009, 01:27:34 PM
Granted but the Chief Rabbi's piece was written last month. Your original reply suggested that jews "crying wolf" were harming their own cause - to which my reply would have been another hoary old meme " no smoke without fire" and I would genuinely like your take on his article.
Wow... I can't even figure out how you came to that conclusion, unless you jumped to it without even reading the article. The more you go on defending it, the more incredibly foolish you look.
I'm not necessarily the sharpest knife in the block, but after reading the article I was 100% crystal clear on what Cain's response to it meant.
I have read all the articles mentioned - have you???
I even read the reply that Cain deleted . . .
No good bleating about a conclusion if you don't specify which one
I am not defending anything - do you actually understand English?
Cain has not yet, though I hope he will, made any comment on the article by the Chief Rabbi. You must be psychic if you think he has
As you admit, you may not be the sharpest knife in the block . . . . no, no I'm sorry but I just can't I refuse to pick that one up it is just too cheap a shot . . .
Edited to make it look pretty for Cainad - shame he almost certainly can't be bothered to read it . . .
You, sir or madam, appear to be a complete idiot, based on your posts to this thread and apparently complete inability to navigate the painfully simplistic quote feature.
Quote from: MMIX on July 07, 2009, 05:52:03 PM
Quote from: Thurnez Isa on July 07, 2009, 04:21:48 PM
using the quote feature is hard
is there a biting your own tongue icon around here?
you probably couldn't figure that out either
Quote from: Thurnez Isa on July 07, 2009, 07:58:01 PM
Quote from: MMIX on July 07, 2009, 05:52:03 PM
Quote from: Thurnez Isa on July 07, 2009, 04:21:48 PM
using the quote feature is hard
is there a biting your own tongue icon around here?
you probably couldn't figure that out either
mental note - no sense of humour either. . . ok
I dunno, I though Thurnez' post was hilarious.
Guess it depends where you're standing.
(http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/4711/roflbotiyyn.jpg) (http://img196.imageshack.us/i/roflbotiyyn.jpg/)
Quote from: MMIX on July 07, 2009, 01:27:34 PM
Granted but the Chief Rabbi's piece was written last month. Your original reply suggested that jews "crying wolf" were harming their own cause - to which my reply would have been another hoary old meme " no smoke without fire" and I would genuinely like your take on his article.
"The Jews" aren't doing anything. "The Jews" are an abitrary collection of humans with differing interests, opinions and beliefs who only have two identity labels in common: the Jewish (ethnic) or Jewish (religious) label, which, for some sort of bizarre reason lots of people with stupid ideas about race and genetics or religion have invested a lot in.
My take is the article is hysterical, politically motivated rubbish and that an actual increase in anti-Semitic attacks, while worrying, does not suggest, as the author does, that Britain and Europe are a seething mass of American and Jew haters, nor is someone likely to be attacked because of those beliefs on the streets of the UK, verbally or otherwise, and that people against the war and critical of US and Israeli actions are not typical of the people she describes. This piece is hyperbolic and based on personal anecdotes and so obviously fake it deserves to be mocked. I also note the author seems uninterested that there have also been increased attacks on blacks and Asians - especially Muslims - since 2001, but this is not mentioned because, again, its a politically motivated piece and not a piece about racism per se.
QuoteThat doesn't mean there isn't an undercurrent of anti-semitism / anti-Americanism in Europe in general and GB in particular, and I assume that is not what you are meaning to imply
It throws doubt on the veracity of the story. Well, more doubt than the lack of names, dodgy quoting, publication name and badly written dialogue do.
QuoteI get what you are saying but wouldn't you agree that the whole "don't ask don't tell" Griffin whitewash also supports my argument that there is a sufficient swell of anti-semitism to cause concern
It also supports my argument that this is about targeting people with a certain political agenda as racists, since those of an anti-Semitic bent who publically support Israel's nastier and more questionable actions magically disappear from the argument, if you can that tirade by such a name.
QuoteI am not an apologist for Gough's fruitloopery and tbh find [some of ] her views abhorrent but I would question what you suspect her actual agenda is since you don't actually unpack it here. Brits who don't support the war on terror wholeheartedly being the anti-semitic running dogs of Islam is a weird idea but it isn't an agenda. What do you see as the purpose of this drivel is it just preaching to the choir and how, if at all is it related to less florid and, therefore, to my mind, more disturbing articles like the Sir Jonathan Sacks one.
Yes it is, because it deligitamizes those who are against the war, and against Israel's actions because racism is abhorrent to most people. Its aim is therefore to undermine a political position through blanket accusations and poor innuendo.
QuoteI made no such implication. You are an interesting and obviously complex individual and I suspect your demons are legion but I have NEVER suspected that racism including anti-semitism was part of the package. I genuinely hope you answer re. the Sacks piece
Except for when you brought up Jewish world domination conspiracy theories in response to my post. Yeah, apart from that you didn't imply a thing, you dishonest sack of shit. Oh, and don't try and psychoanalyze me. Its boring, and I don't care for it.
Sacks veer between sensibility and unwarranted defensiveness. Racists nowadays will use the cover of criticism of Israel to cloak their real opinions, that is true, and actions Israel undertakes will cause spikes in anti-Semitic activity. The UNGA's Arabic and Middle Eastern countries will frequently and opportunistically attack Israel, since nothing works quite as well at keeping poverty ridden dictatorships together than an external enemy.
However Israel has been alleged to have committed very serious crimes and to dismiss claims of human rights breaches as being nothing more than the "new anti-Semitism" is an attempt to shut down the debate through ad hominem. You'll also note how he conflates Israel and Jews dishonestly at at least one point in the article, such as with his point about Mossad and 9/11. Do many people who claim Mossad was behind or involved in 9/11 have anti-semitic worldviews? Yes, of course, and I wouldn't be surprised if the origins of that particular conspiracy theory was some KKK infested basement. But it doesn't necessarily follow, and certainly doesn't apply to all cases. Especially in cases which are actually proven. If I pointed out Mossad ran an illegal assassination squad in Europe in the aftermath of the Munich Olympic Games massacre, is that anti-Semitic? No, its a factual description of a policy undertaken by a particular nation. Its absurd as claiming if I pointed out that the PFLP had trained illegal terrorist cells cells in Europe, then that is, by and of itself, racist against Palestinians or Arabs. Now, if someone claimed that all Jews were to be held guilty because of the actions of Mossad, or that all Arabs were to be held guilty because of the actions of the PFLP, or that they carried out these actions simply because they were Jews or Arabs...then we'd have a case for calling them racist.
I also note, yet again, there is a distinct lack of figures there. I don't doubt there has been a rise, but he does not help his case when he asserts, instead of presents evidence.
Quote from: LMNO on July 07, 2009, 08:01:27 PM
I dunno, I though Thurnez' post was hilarious.
Guess it depends where you're standing.
(http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/4711/roflbotiyyn.jpg) (http://img196.imageshack.us/i/roflbotiyyn.jpg/)
and also who I was talking about . . .
Quote from: Cramulus on July 07, 2009, 07:08:52 PM
I traveled through london, amsterdam & germany in 2006 and felt a moderate amount of anti-american sentiment. Certain people, particularly in Germany, were bristling to deliver their opinion about the US government. I avoided political discussion at all costs. My inarticulate and poorly read boss, however, engaged anybody and everybody at the drop of a hat. He was also talking loudly, wearing bad shorts with a fanny pack, and kept trying to order Coors Light. It was embarassing, to say the least.
I did talk to a few people about politics. Afterwards, one guy said, "You've really made me realize that the media here depicts americans very badly and that it's not always on the money."
In response to "Your president is a facist," I'd usually just say, "Yeah, we didn't vote for him." Some people actually looked surprised about that. It made me wonder about what makes the news in Europe.
If it makes you feel any better, they're probably the same sort of person who would, in America, be complaining about Europeans or Iraqis or something.
People who conflate the actions of individuals (especially ones they do not know) with their governments are generally not too smart anyway. I know when I was in France, during the Iraq War, we once got verbally abused by someone. However, he looked to be Arabic and very drunk, so for all I know, he was actually an Iraqi and was worried about his family or something.
As for the media, it depends what they are watching. Most of the European papers are fairly even handed and seem to occupy the centre of the political map. I don't really watch European news stations so I don't know what is going on there, though I imagine there would be fairly strict regulatory rules, as there are in the UK. Now if they are getting their information from Indymedia and antiwar.com, on the other hand...however, I suspect its a case of people hearing what they want to hear, and extrapolating from the idiots interviewed who were praising Bush after his re-election to every American.
It also noticeably reversed with the election of Obama, who is highly popular, so, you know, it does seem more politically based than just hatred of Americans.
Thanks for the reply Cain, you have given me a lot to think about there. So, just to clarify, the hidden agenda is the undermining of the position of war-unenthusiasts by positioning them as inherently racist therefore not to be trusted. I appreciate the time you have taken - I used to read voraciously and consume vast quantities of current affairs material but I am unable to do that nowadays and have to rely on other sources - erm like you. And thanks for your impressions on the Sacks piece too.
OK.
And I apologize if I came across harshly. I've been having a very rough week with people accusing me of manifestly untrue shit, and I'm quite annoyed by now. My temper is significantly shorter, and having to occasionally restart or hit this laptop isn't helping my temper any.
Its also worth noting that Sacks has also previously said that Britain is one of the most tolerant and wonderful countries for Jewish people to live in, and has also denounced people who conflate criticism of Israel with criticism of Jews. I can only assume the Times editorial team had an axe to grind, which would be unsurprising, given their ownership by Murdoch.
Quote from: Cain on July 07, 2009, 11:56:47 AM
Actually, you know what? Fuck this noise. In the past week I've been accused of being an elitist asshole, the next Wade, a spoiled brat and now, apparently, I'm a covert racist too.
Why the fuck I ever bother contributing anything is beginning to escape me.
Because those of us that aren't fucked up noobs looking for a fight enjoy reading it?
Quote from: yhnmzw on July 07, 2009, 05:41:00 PM
Quote from: Cain on July 07, 2009, 11:56:47 AM
Actually, you know what? Fuck this noise. In the past week I've been accused of being an elitist asshole, the next Wade, a spoiled brat and now, apparently, I'm a covert racist too.
Why the fuck I ever bother contributing anything is beginning to escape me.
I'd like to see a link to that accusation. The prospect horrifies me so.
http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=21393.msg723004#msg723004
And don't worry, I'm not giving up. Just getting progressively more annoyed with it.
according to the news, all americans are dumb, fascist rednecks.
but going by what I see on PD, all americans are incredibly funny asshats
and 40 year old bald guys.
Quote from: Triple Zero on July 07, 2009, 08:49:37 PM
according to the news, all americans are dumb, fascist rednecks.
but going by what I see on PD, all americans are incredibly funny asshats
and 40 year old bald guys.
And 40 year old fat guys named Suu.
Wait. Why are the 40 year old bald guys excluded from the rest?
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on July 07, 2009, 08:52:21 PM
Wait. Why are the 40 year old bald guys excluded from the rest?
I meant Suu (and the other girls), forgot that you are in fact a 40 year old bald guy :lol: (which explains why in reality you are a beautiful fairy princess, right?)
Quote from: Triple Zero on July 07, 2009, 09:18:08 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on July 07, 2009, 08:52:21 PM
Wait. Why are the 40 year old bald guys excluded from the rest?
I meant Suu (and the other girls), forgot that you are in fact a 40 year old bald guy :lol: (which explains why in reality you are a beautiful fairy princess, right?)
Shit yeah.
Quote from: Cain on July 07, 2009, 08:33:00 PM
OK.
And I apologize if I came across harshly. I've been having a very rough week with people accusing me of manifestly untrue shit, and I'm quite annoyed by now. My temper is significantly shorter, and having to occasionally restart or hit this laptop isn't helping my temper any.
Its also worth noting that Sacks has also previously said that Britain is one of the most tolerant and wonderful countries for Jewish people to live in, and has also denounced people who conflate criticism of Israel with criticism of Jews. I can only assume the Times editorial team had an axe to grind, which would be unsurprising, given their ownership by Murdoch.
no harm no foul - and don't let the bastards grind you down - you should realise how much you are appreciated round here - just sayin'
Quote from: Cain on July 07, 2009, 11:48:18 AM
1. The article was written in 2004.
2. The article was written for Frontpage, a magazine devoted to 'fighting the war of ideas' in the War on Terror. ie by coming up with conspiracy theories about Muslims taking over the world and how its perfectly alright to shoot Palestianians because they all grow up to be terrorists anyway. Its editor is David Horowitz, who has been accused by the SPLC of trying to make bigoted and discredit ideas respectable and by consorting with white supremacists in the USA (not to mention taking their money). In fact, a list of writers for Standpoint magazine includes several notable Neocons, such as Charles Krauthammer, but also several paranoid conspiracy theorists of the far-right, including Bat Ye'or, Fjordman (who supports the fascist Vlaams Belang and equally odious Swedish Democrats) and Ann Coulter.
3. The incidents that are described are so patently false as to be laughable. Not only that, they also fall into the standard American Right trope of anti-Semtic, anti-American Europeans, which was highly prevalent just after the Iraq War and Bush's re-election. Note the repititions of the "dinner table" and "parties" (it is an oft repeated myth among conservative circles that champagne socialists and lefties throw parties purely to chat shit about evil Jooos all night long).
4. Not only are false accusations harmful in and of themselves, they obscure the real threat to Americans and Jews in the UK - the one coming from extremist Muslims and the far right. The latter in particular being ignored by the media at large, as seen most recently by the press giving a free ride to Nick Griffin whenever he is interviewed (just see how often his holocaust denial, or fantastically anti-Semitic book, comes up in articles about him). Of course, that never comes up, because its easier to pin statements on nameless and likely fictitious individuals, and because it doesn't fit the agenda (see below).
5. If you read between the lines, Gough's real agenda become obvious. Namely, that Brits who are insufficiently enthused with the war on terror, Bush and Sharon are secretly frothing racists. She misrepresents Faisal Bodi (whose article is actually pretty reasonable and has devoted time and money to interfaith dialogue), and goes off on her own hate-filled tirades about Europe being filled with anti-semites and latent Holocausters in the making, which some might consider undermine her supposed point about hatred of people based on nationality or ethnicity. She also seems to think that America, and Israel, never did anything wrong before Bush Jr coming to power, which is an amusingly wrong notion.
6. I actually spent 4 years hanging around with Americans, Jewish and otherwise in a decent-sized town with a very mixed population, including many Europeans, Muslims and some Palestinians. Not once did anything like that ever occur. Carol Gould would have us believe the UK is on the tip of a seething frenzy of anti-Semitic hatred. I've walked around London, Manchester and Edinburgh frequently with obviously American and obviously Jewish friends without anyone saying a word. Amazing.
7. STFU with your implications I don't give a shit about racism when its against Jews, or that I'm anti-semitic. I spent months bleeding over research about far-right terrorism in Europe and America, precisely because racist incidents concern me so much. Articles like this do nothing except throw about accusations for short term political benefit, and actually worsen the situation. Bullshit, pity-me sob-stories piss me off, when I spent weeks going through databases to catalogue possible incidents of rightwing terrorism to present an accurate picture of the problem.
Wow.
I have no doubt that between raw intelligence, personal experience, education and personal dedication that you are most likely superHuman and on a level that basically transcends the rest of us when it comes to certain things. What I don't get is why you let it bother you when one of us "mundanes" says something stupid based on our
common knowledge and misconceptions.
I appreciate you being here and sharing with us. I don't know why you're not in some covert agency somewhere in charge of deciding who can press the big red button and when--I've never even
picked up half the books you undoubtedly remember photographically...but whatever the reason: it's a good thing for us. It forces me to challenge myself and learn new things.
That said: you shouldn't let the rest of us get to you. Just explain it graciously and move on. Being ignorant to something which is common knowledge to you (and therefore; forming opinions based thus) is not really difficult to do. It doesn't mean we're stupid, it just means you are the Superior Officer in that area.
I know for me; usually when I say something that gets your dander up, I'm not trying to be idiotic or frustrate you, I'm simply working only with the knowledge and life experiences I have on file.
I meant all that in a non-critical way, BTW.
Quote from: navkat on July 07, 2009, 11:30:09 PM
I meant all that in a non-critical way, BTW.
Unless you're a liberal.
Quote from: navkat on July 08, 2009, 11:09:39 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on July 08, 2009, 05:39:28 AM
Quote from: navkat on July 07, 2009, 11:30:09 PM
I meant all that in a non-critical way, BTW.
Unless you're a liberal.
Exactly. A typical, fascist Liberal. :wink:
A typical, fascist,
tax and spend Liberal.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on July 08, 2009, 06:42:48 PM
Quote from: navkat on July 08, 2009, 11:09:39 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on July 08, 2009, 05:39:28 AM
Quote from: navkat on July 07, 2009, 11:30:09 PM
I meant all that in a non-critical way, BTW.
Unless you're a liberal.
Exactly. A typical, fascist Liberal. :wink:
A typical, fascist, tax and spend Liberal.
A typical, fascist, tax and spend,
baby killing Liberal.
Quote from: LMNO on July 08, 2009, 07:05:20 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on July 08, 2009, 06:42:48 PM
Quote from: navkat on July 08, 2009, 11:09:39 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on July 08, 2009, 05:39:28 AM
Quote from: navkat on July 07, 2009, 11:30:09 PM
I meant all that in a non-critical way, BTW.
Unless you're a liberal.
Exactly. A typical, fascist Liberal. :wink:
A typical, fascist, tax and spend Liberal.
A typical, fascist, tax and spend, baby killing Liberal.
A typical, fascist, tax and spend, baby killing,
Godless Liberal.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on July 08, 2009, 07:06:58 PM
Quote from: LMNO on July 08, 2009, 07:05:20 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on July 08, 2009, 06:42:48 PM
Quote from: navkat on July 08, 2009, 11:09:39 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on July 08, 2009, 05:39:28 AM
Quote from: navkat on July 07, 2009, 11:30:09 PM
I meant all that in a non-critical way, BTW.
Unless you're a liberal.
Exactly. A typical, fascist Liberal. :wink:
A typical, fascist, tax and spend Liberal.
A typical, fascist, tax and spend, baby killing Liberal.
A typical, fascist, tax and spend, baby killing, Godless Liberal.
A typical, fascist, tax and spend, baby killing, Godless,
terrorist-loving Liberal.
Quote from: LMNO on July 08, 2009, 07:09:22 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on July 08, 2009, 07:06:58 PM
Quote from: LMNO on July 08, 2009, 07:05:20 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on July 08, 2009, 06:42:48 PM
Quote from: navkat on July 08, 2009, 11:09:39 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on July 08, 2009, 05:39:28 AM
Quote from: navkat on July 07, 2009, 11:30:09 PM
I meant all that in a non-critical way, BTW.
Unless you're a liberal.
Exactly. A typical, fascist Liberal. :wink:
A typical, fascist, tax and spend Liberal.
A typical, fascist, tax and spend, baby killing Liberal.
A typical, fascist, tax and spend, baby killing, Godless Liberal.
A typical, fascist, tax and spend, baby killing, Godless, terrorist-loving Liberal.
A typical, fascist, tax and spend, baby killing, Godless, terrorist-loving,
blame-America-first Liberal.
Quote from: Cainad on July 08, 2009, 07:15:36 PM
Quote from: LMNO on July 08, 2009, 07:09:22 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on July 08, 2009, 07:06:58 PM
Quote from: LMNO on July 08, 2009, 07:05:20 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on July 08, 2009, 06:42:48 PM
Quote from: navkat on July 08, 2009, 11:09:39 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on July 08, 2009, 05:39:28 AM
Quote from: navkat on July 07, 2009, 11:30:09 PM
I meant all that in a non-critical way, BTW.
Unless you're a liberal.
Exactly. A typical, fascist Liberal. :wink:
A typical, fascist, tax and spend Liberal.
A typical, fascist, tax and spend, baby killing Liberal.
A typical, fascist, tax and spend, baby killing, Godless Liberal.
A typical, fascist, tax and spend, baby killing, Godless, terrorist-loving Liberal.
A typical, fascist, tax and spend, baby killing, Godless, terrorist-loving, blame-America-first Liberal.
A typical, fascist, tax and spend, baby killing, Godless, terrorist-loving, blame-America-first red diaper doper baby Liberal
(http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb163/wompcabal/taxnspend.jpg)
Quote from: fomenter on July 08, 2009, 07:23:34 PM
A typical, fascist, tax and spend, baby killing, Godless, terrorist-loving, blame-America-first red diaper doper baby Liberal
Okay, we have the meme.
WHY DO YOU ALL HATE FREEDOM?
Quote from: navkat on July 08, 2009, 08:49:53 PM
WHY DO YOU ALL HATE FREEDOM?
WHY DO YOU ALL HATE FREEDOM, AND LOVE TERRORISTS?
YOU HATE ME BECAUSE I'M FREE.
Quote from: navkat on July 08, 2009, 10:37:05 PM
YOU HATE ME BECAUSE I'M FREE.
I HATE YOU BECAUSE YOU'RE A HOMINID.
:lol:
Zappa.
?
Quote from: fomenter on July 08, 2009, 07:23:34 PM
Quote from: Cainad on July 08, 2009, 07:15:36 PM
Quote from: LMNO on July 08, 2009, 07:09:22 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on July 08, 2009, 07:06:58 PM
Quote from: LMNO on July 08, 2009, 07:05:20 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on July 08, 2009, 06:42:48 PM
Quote from: navkat on July 08, 2009, 11:09:39 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on July 08, 2009, 05:39:28 AM
Quote from: navkat on July 07, 2009, 11:30:09 PM
I meant all that in a non-critical way, BTW.
Unless you're a liberal.
Exactly. A typical, fascist Liberal. :wink:
A typical, fascist, tax and spend Liberal.
A typical, fascist, tax and spend, baby killing Liberal.
A typical, fascist, tax and spend, baby killing, Godless Liberal.
A typical, fascist, tax and spend, baby killing, Godless, terrorist-loving Liberal.
A typical, fascist, tax and spend, baby killing, Godless, terrorist-loving, blame-America-first Liberal.
A typical, fascist, tax and spend, baby killing, Godless, terrorist-loving, blame-America-first red diaper doper baby Liberal
A typical, fascist, tax and spend, baby killing, Godless, terrorist-loving, blame-America-first red diaper doper baby
gay Liberal
Quote from: Nigel on July 09, 2009, 05:02:39 PM
Quote from: fomenter on July 08, 2009, 07:23:34 PM
Quote from: Cainad on July 08, 2009, 07:15:36 PM
Quote from: LMNO on July 08, 2009, 07:09:22 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on July 08, 2009, 07:06:58 PM
Quote from: LMNO on July 08, 2009, 07:05:20 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on July 08, 2009, 06:42:48 PM
Quote from: navkat on July 08, 2009, 11:09:39 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on July 08, 2009, 05:39:28 AM
Quote from: navkat on July 07, 2009, 11:30:09 PM
I meant all that in a non-critical way, BTW.
Unless you're a liberal.
Exactly. A typical, fascist Liberal. :wink:
A typical, fascist, tax and spend Liberal.
A typical, fascist, tax and spend, baby killing Liberal.
A typical, fascist, tax and spend, baby killing, Godless Liberal.
A typical, fascist, tax and spend, baby killing, Godless, terrorist-loving Liberal.
A typical, fascist, tax and spend, baby killing, Godless, terrorist-loving, blame-America-first Liberal.
A typical, fascist, tax and spend, baby killing, Godless, terrorist-loving, blame-America-first red diaper doper baby Liberal
A typical, fascist, tax and spend, baby killing, Godless, terrorist-loving, blame-America-first red diaper doper baby gay-agenda Liberal
:potd:
(and fixed the very end)
Liberals: A Pictorial Essay by navkat
(http://blogofhilarity.com/wp-content/uploads/pictures-2003-to-2005-2403-540x352.jpg)
(http://bop.nppa.org/2006/thumbnails/512/00010015-INS-68974/137022.jpg)
(http://www.ghettoflixdownloads.com/images/WWB_Thumbnail.jpg)
(http://www.thenaturalsystemsinstitute.org/Posting%20Essays%20on%20Issues/De-Centering/Illegal%20Aliens.jpg)
(http://mdh1954.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/old_hippie_very_old_hippies_1.jpg)
(http://infidelsparadise.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/terrorists.jpg)
(http://www.theworst.ca/house/ravers.jpg)
(http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/8850/steveirwinsu9.jpg)
(http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Arts/Arts_/Pictures/2007/08/07/hitler460.jpg)
(http://mariusbancila.ro/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/seattle2007_canadians.jpg)
:potd:
:potd: