Principia Discordia

Modded: Moved to Literate Chaotic for suggestions on what to read and discus.


As proposed here http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=19893.msg724878#msg724878

What do you guys think?

My first impression is, "cool!"

My second is "herding cats!"

My third is, "think of the arguments!"

Quote from: LMNO on July 08, 2009, 08:06:20 PM
My first impression is, "cool!"

My second is "herding cats!"

My third is, "think of the arguments!"

In other words, YES!

I suggest only books available on Torrent be admitted to book club.

Or my HD.

Not that there is much difference, nowadays.

Good point.


Should we start it as a thread in Lit Chao, and see if it takes off enough to split?

Yeah, that would be a good place to also talk about what book we want to read, or what sort of topic (since I may not have precise texts).

Suggestion: start out easy.  Catch-22 before Naked Lunch, and all that.

I think this is a good idea. Having people to discuss it with really increased my enjoyment/absorption of Black Swan, Art of Memetics, and Ourspace.

I'll join this idea. Also because I wonder if I can keep up with you guys, I have the idea I read kind of slowly cause I get distracted a lot.

(A friend of mine just messaged me today why I had kept Transmetropolitan from him so long and I found out he read the entire series in two days, whereas I needed at least four on my holiday in Denmark this March. Well okay I had to watch some DVDs with friends and chat and drink white russians in between so I couldnt read non-stop)

Anyway, so I suppose we pick a title, set a date when everyone is supposed to have read the book, and form some questions and discussions about it? Is that how it goes? Would it be fun to also pick a time and discuss some in real time on the chat (separate channel), or perhaps the teamspag?

Sounds good, but I won't be able to IRC.

Given my access is going to be somewhat more limited over the next two months, the forum is better for me, as well.

Also, while those books sound OK, LMNO, I think something like The Art of Memetics or something which we can relate back to what we do here is also possibly a good route to take.

I was just going for a familiar simile.  Relating back to PD.com is always a good idea.

well that would be easy, I already read AoM :) but I could give it a second reading and take some notes.

stuff that's on my "been meaning to read" list:

- OurSpace
- Chicken Qabalah
- that new book by Neil Strauss "this book will save your life" or something, kind of has some connections with our Crazy Prepared thread
- Guns Germs and Steel
- Poker without cards? (what is that book about anyway, I heard it mentioned a few times)

ok that's what I got so far. I have hundreds of titles on my HD, but most of them I have no idea what they are about.

poker w/o cards is one i have heard mentioned a bunch and it has my curiosity too.

I've read Poker Without Cards before, and its pretty good.  Its a presumably fictional tale about memes, self-programming and marketing.  And Sufis.

btw I don't think we need a special subforum for this. every "round" one thread in the Lit board would be enough no?

start with a sticky mentioning the title and finished date in the topic, then see what happens?

all we need to do is decide on a title and a date, right?

I very much approve of this idea. I've been feeling intellectually slow for a while now, and haven't really contributed much to any of the serious discussions. This could help me get my brain up to speed and bring me more into the loop with some of the things my fellow Discordians have read.

Sounds good to me.

Also, Guns, Germs, and Steel is pretty good and definitely worth a read.

I'm about six pages into Godel Escher Bach.  I'm really digging it, but it's pretty dense. And 800 pages long. So it might not be a good book club pick.


One thing I might suggest --

Kalle Lasn's Culture Jam is a great read. It made me want to do huge pranks, and it had the side effect of making me hate kalle lasn. I want to buy him a steak dinner and then uppercut his balls.

it's also the perfect book to read before Ourspace, because Christine Harold rips him a new one

so is a book every other week to fast a pace to expect some results.

every "round" one thread in the Lit board would be enough no?
new subforum where books get their own thread would almost encourage the shotgun approach.
a single thread might be more focused but have alot of chatter

and if we rely on torrents then wouldnt it be best to be hidden like OM

I think a week is a bit too short. Two weeks, maybe?

yeah, at least two weeks.

isnt every other week the same thing as every two weeks?

Quote from: noise maker on July 09, 2009, 02:49:00 AM
isnt every other week the same thing as every two weeks?

No....

also, Cram, GEB goes very quick....
i'd have to buy my third copy of it to read it again (ive lent it out twice to god knows who), but i'd be willing to do that.  Hoffstadter's other books would work well to, i think.  (metamagical themas, and the mind's i, are the other two i've read)

i vote for two weeks or longer...

Quote from: noise maker on July 09, 2009, 02:49:00 AM
isnt every other week the same thing as every two weeks?

Yes. I have no idea how I misinterpreted that.

http://www.lulu.com/content/paperback-book/the-enticing-madness-of-metamind/2056583
Download free, there also is a paperback since its lulu. and would be the best opening book
as would the books suggested in that book.

(http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/5417/teebookclubbacklargemqk.gif) (http://img17.imageshack.us/i/teebookclubbacklargemqk.gif/)

Quote from: noise maker on July 09, 2009, 05:52:57 AM
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperback-book/the-enticing-madness-of-metamind/2056583
Download free, there also is a paperback since its lulu. and would be the best opening book
as would the books suggested in that book.

QuoteThere were four bars, two for townies and two for the students and the populations rarely mixed. Montburg had only three gas stations, one tiny convenience store, the smallest public library I have ever been to, a post office manned by one old man who acted like I was hassling him every time I went in to purchase stamps and send correspondences, a sports supply store that sold nothing but
firearms and hunting gear but did have a small section in a back corner of footballs and baseball gloves, two small mom and pops diners, one tiny recreation center and nine churches all overshadowed by a sports stadium that had a maximum capacity of ten thousand.  Everyone in Montburg went to church.  Everyone.

Wasilla?  :?

The only problem I have with doing Culture Jam is that I literally cannot afford to buy it, so unless someone has an e-book version then I am out.

I do have Godel, Escher, Bach, though it is in a djvu file format which requires a special and annoying reader.

Isn't GEB a littlebit too big and diverse, it should probably be split into parts, over some weeks.

if Culture Jam isnt available, maybe we can do OurSpace?

I've only skimmed GEB so I couldn't say, but Ourspace could be a good one, yes.

Or Poker Without Cards, I think either of those two would certainly fit well.

Honest truth, I'll try to keep up, but I don't have as much time for reading as I'd like.  I'll do as much as I can in two weeks, but no promises.

Sounds like it would be good idea, I'd also suggest at least two weeks for reading time, or maybe pick the books a month (or so) in advance so slow readers can take their time and just discuss one book a month, while faster readers can discuss two (or maybe more) books a month.

Also, I'd like to suggest My Immortal  :lol:

Oooh!  We should do House of Leaves at some point.  I've always wanted to read that.

I have that, but its in .jpeg format, simply because nothing else could handle it.

Plus its incredibly long and mindfucky, I am led to believe.

That's something I would actually get in dead tree format.

so, what....
are we compiling a list that we're going to vote on, or are we waiting for a Big Man to defer to?

Quote from: Cramulus on July 09, 2009, 12:19:23 AM
I'm about six pages into Godel Escher Bach.  I'm really digging it, but it's pretty dense. And 800 pages long. So it might not be a good book club pick.

Love the Book.

I've had three copies stolen from me.

That's right. It's so good it makes intellectuals steal.

Wait a minute...

I'm on a board with a lot of intellectual thieves on it... anyways it's good.

I mean I assume some of you are thieves... It's possible that you're just liars.

wait a minute.

I know many of you are liars too. but not all the time...

is it possible that you're thieves AND liars... at some moments and not others?

Please note the "modify" button...

house of leaves  :thumb: - always wanted to read that
poker without cards :thumb: - always wanted to read that

I'm reading a copy of GEB which I found at scribd.com. The only problem is that I think it's an OCR scan, so it's not perfect. There's some punctuation missing, some words are wrong, a few weird artifacts here and there.

I think we should all just get the book and read it at the same time and post about it - no need to lock ourselves to a set schedule. For the most part, it looks like we're looking at nonfiction, so it's not like we're spoiling anything if we talk about something that others haven't caught up to yet.

OK.  If someone can point me to a copy of "Poker Without Cards," I nominate that as our fist book.

All in favor?

Quote from: LMNO on July 09, 2009, 07:53:40 PM
Please note the "modify" button...

I didn't see anything I wanted to change.







Modified to change something I wanted to change.

Quote from: LMNO on July 09, 2009, 08:02:21 PM
OK.  If someone can point me to a copy of "Poker Without Cards," I nominate that as our fist book.

All in favor?

ok by me

links to download?

agreed.
link-o and i'm thar....
all hail, Big Man LMNO....

 :news:

Book club cancelled due to lack of torrents.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/1845628/Poker-Without-Cards !!

GAME ON!
  \
:nigel:

To formalize this, and to give it the 2-week treatment, I suggest we begin talking about it on Monday, July 27.

All in favor?

Quote from: Cramulus on July 09, 2009, 08:20:13 PM
http://www.scribd.com/doc/1845628/Poker-Without-Cards !!

http://pokerwithoutcards.com/

Quote
The paperback version of "Poker Without Cards" can be found on Amazon here:

http://www.amazon.com/Poker-Without-Cards-Consciousness-Thriller/dp/1411627679/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1215997819&sr=8-1

If you hunt around the Web, you can find a downloadbale version for free such as...

here: http://www.greylodge.org/gpc/?p=558

here: http://www.secondattention.org/dl/poker_without_cards.pdf

or maybe here: http://www.skilluminati.com/docs/323.pdf

QuoteThere were eight books inside. As I examined each one I tried to figure out who had selected each book.
I wasable to puzzle out a little over half of them.       Suave was easy, he had put in 'Rules of the Game' by Neil Strauss,
which actually explained a lot of the success I'd seen him have with women. Ego was also simple, “Frogs Into Princes”
was her choice, and after a little digging on the Internet I found out it was a core book of something called neuro-linguistic
programming which had something to do with psychology and self-help. I figured Brush had put in Hunter S. Thompson's
'Where the Buffalo Roam' since we'd talked about our mutual respect for the journalist and how tragic we thought his death was.
Magus was also easy, as the book in the bag was the same one he'd been clutching the entire night, 'Book IV', an occult classic
from Allister Crowley. The last I was able to puzzle out was 'Ethics for a New Millennium,' a book about morality written by the Dalai Lama,
which I easily associated with Chun-li.

There were three books that I had trouble placing: Isaac Asimov's 'The Foundation', Michael Talbot's 'The Holographic Universe'
and 'Prometheus Rising' by Robert Anton Wilson. All I had left were Doc, Metamind and Hackx. I was fairly sure Wilson's book wasn't
from Hackx, but either Metamind or Doc would be easy candidates for any of the three books. I figured Hackx added either
Asimov's sci-fi classic or the seemingly more scientific 'The Holographic Universe'.
       I ended up reading 'Frogs Into Princes' that night

why i think this should be the first one, and not just cause the author is from ohio

You realize there's 8 books listed in the quote, right?

Quote from: noise maker on July 09, 2009, 08:28:15 PM
why i think this should be the first one, and not just cause the author is from ohio

too late buck-o....
already reading the book about poker.

cool. PWC it is!

PoWC it is then... :P
brb, calling wip to ask if he can buy a copy from amazon

Quote from: LMNO on July 09, 2009, 08:32:46 PM
You realize there's 8 books listed in the quote, right?

yes thats the fun part of the storyline. be basically is introducted to a group of like minded individuals 
and in order to "join" he has to read those 8 books,

This sounds like a good idea, but I can't make any promises of participation. I have a tendency to stop reading things as soon as I'm requested to.

Quote from: Rumwolf on July 09, 2009, 02:07:43 PM
Also, I'd like to suggest My Immortal  :lol:

SECONDED! 44 chapters of pure horrormirth.

Poker Without Cards looks pretty short. And pretty good.

Ok. I'm in too since I already had a copy of Poker Without Cards on my hd.  I'm going to have to start really early since I'm an extremely slow reader.

Quote from: Iason Ouabache on July 10, 2009, 01:10:26 AM
Ok. I'm in too since I already had a copy of Poker Without Cards on my hd.  I'm going to have to start really early since I'm an extremely slow reader.

i was worried about my reading pace too, but it seems to be a common theme here.  perhaps there's some nugget to be found in this observation......

Where would I find this book?

Quote from: Requia on July 10, 2009, 05:34:03 AM
Where would I find this book?

http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=21445.45

A book club? I think I just came. I'm assuming I can download from Scribd?


Edit: Aha, so I can.

Sweet! Book club! I, too, just jizzed in my pants.
Starting PwC now.
Reading is FUNdamental.

Future suggestion: Vonnegut's Hocus Pocus

edit: enticing madness sounds pretty badass, too, yatto

Shall we start a new thread for the book, once we want to discuss it?  Because I think that is a good plan.

Yes.

read PWC at Cain's suggestion two winters ago, was excellent, reminded me of Foucault's Pendulum with all the false trails and misleading memes.

Guess its time for a reread. :)

Quote from: Cain on July 10, 2009, 12:35:53 PM
Shall we start a new thread for the book, once we want to discuss it?  Because I think that is a good plan.

Seconded. Sounds like a plan - probably best to do a new thread for each book that gets this treatment, too. We can use this thread to coordinate the next book choice as well, in order to assist in keeping each thread's discussion (at least a little) on point for the book of the (two) week(s).

Suggestion for later: "The Family: The Secret Fundamentalism at the Heart of American Power " by Jeff Sharlet.  Might be too long and slightly off topic but it looks like an extremely interesting conspiracy theory.  :tinfoilhat:

Ah, you downloaded the pdf of that too?

I remember reading reviews of that last year.  Harpers Magazine also did a huge article on them a couple of years back.  They appear to have some serious global clout, if what I have read is true.

Quote from: Cain on July 16, 2009, 11:34:50 AM
Ah, you downloaded the pdf of that too?

I remember reading reviews of that last year.  Harpers Magazine also did a huge article on them a couple of years back.  They appear to have some serious global clout, if what I have read is true.

I heard a great interview with the author last night. Found the PDF on gigapedia. Looks very interesting but I wonder how much of it is true. That would be a pretty big open conspiracy on both sides of the Atlantic.

Since some have already finished PwoC, perhaps we can come to a consensus on what the next book will be?
I have seen Guns,Germs, and Steel mentioned....
i would put forth that, or The Ascent of Money, by Niall Ferguson.

Quote from: enticing madness of metamindWe need everyone, but we need to jump start the
knowledge of the poorest in the world. The paradigm of
control of knowledge and education needs to shift from the
exclusive privilege of those nations who can afford it, or the
whole planet will degenerate into an unending cycle of
violence. The weapons of today are so great that if action is
not taken soon we could pass projected periods of no return.
Once one of the major nations of the world enters into a real
military conflict, the game is over. China and the United
States of America have been in a juvenile pissing contest for
years over Taiwan, more than once indicating possible use of
nuclear weapons. The Middle East is a giant region of
ideological armed conflicts that have been spilling over into
other regions, conflicts that the West itself has taken all
sides of throughout history and has gained the animosity of
the indigenous peoples. Major actions need to be taken soon,
or we may pass beyond a point where nothing can save our
species.”

Damn, completely missed this until now.

I'm going to start reading Poker Without Cards.  :)

Quote from: Iptuous on July 17, 2009, 05:23:27 PM
Since some have already finished PwoC, perhaps we can come to a consensus on what the next book will be?
I have seen Guns,Germs, and Steel mentioned....
i would put forth that, or The Ascent of Money, by Niall Ferguson.

next on my reading list:
-Godel Escher Bach
-Crowley's Book 4, Liber ABA  - I've read very little Crowley, but I've become quite intersted in him. This book is referenced in Poker Without Cards and it sounded like a good read

I'd like to suggest OurSpace.

Possible suggestions:
- RIM by Alexander Bescher. It's cheesy in the style of Illuminatus. It might be hard to find, but it touches on a lot of the stuff from PWC, and mentions McKenna by name. I managed to find a PDF once.
- Linked by Albert-Laszlo Barabasi. Nonfiction, but pretty interesting. May tie into the memebomb propagation stuff, particularly with those of us who have read AoM. Probably easy to find, since it's made for a popular audience.

I could totally go for GEB since I have a copy, but it's pretty long, so we may want to allocate a bit more time to it. I have yet to get through it myself, though I read most of I Am a Strange Loop prior to getting GEB.

I suggest either Angel Tech or Ourspace or Godel Escher Bach (which I have, but only as a djvu format file).

second Angel Tech, at least judging from what I've heard about it here.

another idea, which just struck me, would be Transmetropolitan. because 1) everybody should read it and 2) for those who have read it, I bet it's still pretty awesome on the second read as well.

Angel Tech and EGB have been some of the more influential books in my life.... probably more than any single RAW book, come to think of it.

i will fourth angel tech and move to close, as i want to get started on the next book...
how much mass does it have as compared to PwoC', as a reference we've all just read? (and what's it about? :wink:)

As long as someone will give me a PDF of angel tech, I'll fifth it.

Its 254 pages, and I have a PDF.

it's settled, then.
link-o!

I have Godel, Escher, & Bach as a PDF for future reference. I'd rather do "I am a Strange Loop" since I already have the dead tree version sitting on my desk. I need a link for "Angel Tech".

Maybe we should wait before everyone has finished Poker Without Cards and had a discussion on it, before moving on.  We have until the 27th, IIRC

alright....
it seems that many have already finished, and the discussion is underway despite ourselves....
just figured we could get a jump on the next book for people that read slower, or just missed the first book altogether.
but, i can wait :wink:
do you have a link to Angel Tech, anyways? even if we don't end up selecting it?

yes, I dont know if I can finish PWC entirely before the 27th, but I've started in it, and I would prefer if we could at least wait until the stated deadline before picking a new book.

Same here.

when the time comes, perhaps we should put it to poll

http://www.verticalpool.com/afterwordbyraw.html
"Towards an Archeology of the Soul" by Antero Alli

Oh, I get it now.  The intent was to refrain from commentary on the book until it's all over?  My bad.

I will read anything I don't have to download.  Can't do it at work.

Incidentally, I nominate JG Ballard's "Crash" as a book we should read.

Quote from: Eater of Clowns on July 24, 2009, 03:53:10 AM
Oh, I get it now.  The intent was to refrain from commentary on the book until it's all over?  My bad.

I will read anything I don't have to download.  Can't do it at work.

Well, I was waiting for others to finish, for fear of ruining plot developments and details.

I'm simply not clicking the thread until i finish.

That's a shame, since the author is posting in the thread.

I guess I better finish up quickly, then.

Quote from: Cain on July 24, 2009, 02:24:01 PM
That's a shame, since the author is posting in the thread.

I'm glad I caught that.  It did make me go back and reread what I'd posted, just to be on the safe side.

Quote from: Cain on July 24, 2009, 02:24:01 PM
That's a shame, since the author is posting in the thread.

maybe he will join us for the next #bookclub
besides with each book getting its own topic its not like you could stop spags from bumping it

Quote from: έχουν νόημα on July 24, 2009, 09:10:07 PM

Quote from: Cain on July 24, 2009, 02:24:01 PM
That's a shame, since the author is posting in the thread.

maybe he will join us for the next #bookclub

that's brilliant! it would be like a reverse Internet Safari, steadily collecting all the authors in one forum book club!

Quote from: Triple Zero on July 24, 2009, 09:37:10 PM

Quote from: έχουν νόημα on July 24, 2009, 09:10:07 PM

Quote from: Cain on July 24, 2009, 02:24:01 PM
That's a shame, since the author is posting in the thread.

maybe he will join us for the next #bookclub

that's brilliant! it would be like a reverse Internet Safari, steadily collecting all the authors in one forum book club!

That would be awesome, especially if we can talk them into staying for more than a couple of posts. Didn't Wes Unruh make a few posts here last year?

Edward Wilson, but close enough.

Wes used to link to my blog, back when I still blogged under my Cain moniker, though, so presumably he was aware of this place.

Quote from: Cain on July 25, 2009, 02:20:45 PM
Edward Wilson, but close enough.

Wes used to link to my blog, back when I still blogged under my Cain moniker, though, so presumably he was aware of this place.

I met ed and wes at esozone, and they were aware of us. If only in passing.


Ed used to hang out in #discord

personally i think we could go the free/creative commons/kopyleft book route for the first few, just to prove we can

So, since the author of the book we were discussing ended up killing the discussion,

Whats the next book?

Ok, what really bothers me is that my Kindle has over 100 marginalia notes about PWC (no, really.  The Kindle notates them).  Rather than skim through the book, passively accepting memetics and the idea that "marketing is reality", I read the goddamn book.  I didn't automatically sing Ben Mack's praises, because I was thinking for myself, and worked at "tracking" the book, to use PWC's terminology.  I understood a large part of the references, and the ones I didn't, I made a note to ask about.  Much of what I know about these themes I learned on my own, jumping from book to book, asking questions, and discussing issues I had problems with.

  I was fully ready to launch into a major analysis and discussion of the themes, topics, and formal aspects of the plot, when it got totally derailed by the author who claimed I was "not the target audience", and refused to engage me in conversation regarding his book, all but saying, "if you don't get it, don't bother."  And then goes on to say he's looking for autodidacts!

This whole experience has left me with a bad taste in my mouth.

Quote from: LMNO on July 28, 2009, 08:31:39 PM
This whole experience has left me with a bad taste in my mouth.

I totally agree...
it was unfortunate that he showed up to 'steward his reputation'  :roll:

i didn't have nearly that much marginalia, but i had some notes and was looking forward to the discussion, and although it could still be done (if the author stopped trolling :D), i don't know if i really have the continued interest.....

so would you like to discuss what the next book should be?

I'm gonna have to take a short break, but there are a pile of suggestions in the above posts.

I feel for ya lmno. I was surprised by how that exchange went. I hope it'll be the exception to how the book club works.


I'd like to propose a rule

well, a suggestion.

more of a "guideline".

I was really pleased that Ben Mack showed up.
 ...And then it went downhill from there.


In the future, if the author of a book we're discussing shows up at the forum, I think we should make an effort to be uhhhhh

more neutral and reserved.

I don't we can be fully blamed for how the thread with Ben went. Hostility or misunderstanding was reciprocated. He seemed to have a direction he wanted the thread to go, and we weren't on that page. If you ask me, it was a mutual communication fail.

I think the hostility and misunderstanding originated from simple communication failures and the expectation that we were supposed to be treating him like a teacher.

To me, part of that thread read like the hazing that newbies often get. It was the whole "learn to communicate with us" (not the other way around) vibe, and also the ad hominems. I'm not interested in subjecting authors to the same testing criteria that we hold newbies to. They're not coming here to participate in the greater forum, just this little slice that is about their work. So we don't need to challenge them, provoke them, break them out of their BIP, thicken their skin, or otherwise irritate them towards us.

unless they deserve it.

or it's funny.

or a million other exceptions.

I'm just apprehensive because I can easily see this developing into a trend where we read books and then piss off the authors. Posting on an internet forum and interacting with a dozen strangers is challenging, but let's reduce HOW challenging when it comes to talking with the people whose ideas we're discussing. Hostility is a self-feeding cycle, especially on forums. It's SO easy to throw a snowball that becomes an avalanche.

Quote from: LMNO on July 28, 2009, 08:43:54 PM
I'm gonna have to take a short break, but there are a pile of suggestions in the above posts.

Having met and talked to many, many authors thata I had great respect for... I must say you should be ready for this sort of disappointment. Out of maybe 15 authors, I can think of five that I've discussed their work with that hasn't turned into "Let me teach you what I meant in my awesome book". I think its probably a confusion of defending territory or seeing something clearly themselves, without realizing that the perception may not be as clear to the reader.

In some cases, I've decided that the author is justs an ass....  

As the fourth wall breaks down further and further, it will be interesting to see how groups that traditionally had a one way communication channel will adjust to fit communication in an equal environment.

Also, Cram those are some good points as well :)

Well, I really wasn't expecting the author to show up.

I would expect that if an author was able to listen into almost any IRL bookclub, they might be taken aback as to what was being said about their work.

And you know what?  The book club can come to any conclusion, and say whatever the hell they want to.  To have a bunch of forumites like ours try to organize a book club is pretty impressive in the first place.  But we didn't want to be lectured as to what the book is about.  We want to discuss it.  That's the difference between a book club and a classroom.  Ben wanted a classroom; we wanted communication between equals.

Quote from: LMNO on July 28, 2009, 08:53:10 PM
Well, I really wasn't expecting the author to show up.

I would expect that if an author was able to listen into almost any IRL bookclub, they might be taken aback as to what was being said about their work.

And you know what?  The book club can come to any conclusion, and say whatever the hell they want to.  To have a bunch of forumites like ours try to organize a book club is pretty impressive in the first place.  But we didn't want to be lectured as to what the book is about.  We want to discuss it.  That's the difference between a book club and a classroom.  Ben wanted a classroom; we wanted communication between equals.

I agree completely. Over at Maybe Logic teachers seem to struggle between these two modes. Those that take the equals approach seem to have large classes full of lots of activity. Those that tend toward the traditional 'class' kind of environment often have very little actual participation. Antero, RAW, Pete Carroll, Lon Milo Duquette, Starhawk have run many classes with huge numbers of very active students... some other authors have big classes and almost zero participation... and the attitude of teacher vs equal seems to be the key differentiator.

My suggestion would be that once your work is publically available, while your interpretation of it is indeed an important one, its not the only one.  Other people have interacted it, added their own experiences and knowledge to it, and come to their own conclusions.  They may not be the ones the author intended, but that doesn't necessarily decrease their validity, as a critical approach to the text.  The work has gone public and so the author doesn't hold that monopoly of critical examination anymore.

Quote from: LMNO on July 28, 2009, 08:53:10 PM
Well, I really wasn't expecting the author to show up.

I would expect that if an author was able to listen into almost any IRL bookclub, they might be taken aback as to what was being said about their work.

And you know what?  The book club can come to any conclusion, and say whatever the hell they want to.  To have a bunch of forumites like ours try to organize a book club is pretty impressive in the first place.  But we didn't want to be lectured as to what the book is about.  We want to discuss it.  That's the difference between a book club and a classroom.  Ben wanted a classroom; we wanted communication between equals.

Thats totally the truth.

When he first walked in, I was excited. I had some questions, and some criticisms as well (a critique is not complaining btw, its a formal essay on the critic's interpretation of the work in whatever context they choose (author, historical, whatever) highlighting both the "good" and the "bad", what they liked, what they thought was valuable about the work, and what they thought was not, or didn't add anything to our culture or to the work itself), but as soon as we started talking it became obvious he didn't want a dialogue, he wanted a classroom. He wanted us to get interested in his seminars (notice how he kept pushing for a formal Q&A session?), he wanted us to fund his endevours, either intellectually or monetarily. He was looking for recruits.


[bitchfest](Also, maybe I just pride myself on giving concise answers to questions and defining my terms as best as possible while I go, but he was totally not concise with his replies, nor were they often relevant. When he finally did answer my question it was very easy for me to make a summary interpretation of what I had read, because then I had closer to the whole story. Not to mention being talked down to.)[/bitchfest]

Quote from: Cain on July 28, 2009, 09:04:48 PM
My suggestion would be that once your work is publically available, while your interpretation of it is indeed an important one, its not the only one.  Other people have interacted it, added their own experiences and knowledge to it, and come to their own conclusions.  They may not be the ones the author intended, but that doesn't necessarily decrease their validity, as a critical approach to the text.  The work has gone public and so the author doesn't hold that monopoly of critical examination anymore.

This is the rule I was running under too. Value and meaning are not things that are only determined by the author.

Quote from: Ratatosk on July 28, 2009, 08:52:28 PM

Quote from: LMNO on July 28, 2009, 08:43:54 PM
I'm gonna have to take a short break, but there are a pile of suggestions in the above posts.

Having met and talked to many, many authors thata I had great respect for... I must say you should be ready for this sort of disappointment. Out of maybe 15 authors, I can think of five that I've discussed their work with that hasn't turned into "Let me teach you what I meant in my awesome book". I think its probably a confusion of defending territory or seeing something clearly themselves, without realizing that the perception may not be as clear to the reader.

In some cases, I've decided that the author is justs an ass.... 

As the fourth wall breaks down further and further, it will be interesting to see how groups that traditionally had a one way communication channel will adjust to fit communication in an equal environment.

Also, Cram those are some good points as well :)

IAWTC

Maybe if the authors are invited or do show up, a different author Q&A thread would be separate from the club's general comment thread on the book?  And author is aware that the general thread is not a Q&A but a place to natter about the work in question unfettered by author's ego?

Also:  just a thought--would it be possible/warranted to split this thread off so that the author's comments and the replying posts are in a different thread from the club members' general commentary to each other?

For what it's worth, I can imagine a number of far less pleasant things for the book club to degrade into aside from a method to mutually troll authors. Although authors are not going to be forum members, without some level of understanding about the social atmosphere here, very little communication will likely get through due to cultural communication fail. Ben Mack appeared to use perhaps one of the least optimal styles for communicating to us -- a combination of hippie loveydovey word choice that doesn't go over well in this atmosphere, txtspeak that gets on the nerves of our resident grammargodwins, marketingspeak that puts nearly everyone with a television, radio, or internet connection a little on edge, and the worst of DK-style "I have an education, bow down to me" response style. I should reiterate that this probably works on lots of people -- it does not work for us. It's perfectly reasonable to meet authors half-way, but it seemed to me that most of us were terribly civil to Dr Mack most of the time, and that for the most part we *did* try to meet him half way. We, as the larger group, cannot universally bear the brunt of communication.

So, in a situation where an author appears arbitrarily, and communication doesn't seem to be working, we could do far worse things than troll the hell out of him/her. An author's job is communication, and we aren't exactly requesting that the authors show up. If the author shows up of his own free will, and then doesn't meet us half way in trying to communicate, s/he's no different from an arbitrary newbie who doesn't want to communicate.

That said, a newbie if not scared off may stick around, while an author is unlikely to. There's no reason a communicative author who wants to stick around shouldn't, and I don't mean to argue that trying to prevent this is a valid goal, but there is an (implied) limited timespan here. So, the 50 post thing probably shouldn't count, or at the very least, we needn't really stick to it as much (it's not a rule, after all). An author is just another poster, and to hide behind published materials or degrees isn't a particularly rational thing to do here, given that plenty of people here have that kind of clout. If we really wanted to be elitist, everyone could stick their degree level in their sig, but in general I think the consensus has been that many of the things that are meaningful in terms of second circuit shit-throwing-general rankage in the Real World (TM) are not meaningful here. Plenty of sophomoric assholes who can't spell have doctorates, and plenty of active posters with a good track record and a lot of community support aren't even out of high school.

So, for the tl;dr version: authors are just posters with RL clout, and if they deserve it, they can be trolled the same as anyone else, which may be a good idea if nothing else good is coming out of having them around.

well said

Quote from: Cramulus on July 28, 2009, 08:47:07 PM
break them out of their BIP

:podpeople:

Quote from: Enki v. 2.0 on July 28, 2009, 10:38:41 PM
For what it's worth, I can imagine a number of far less pleasant things for the book club to degrade into aside from a method to mutually troll authors. Although authors are not going to be forum members, without some level of understanding about the social atmosphere here, very little communication will likely get through due to cultural communication fail. Ben Mack appeared to use perhaps one of the least optimal styles for communicating to us -- a combination of hippie loveydovey word choice that doesn't go over well in this atmosphere, txtspeak that gets on the nerves of our resident grammargodwins, marketingspeak that puts nearly everyone with a television, radio, or internet connection a little on edge, and the worst of DK-style "I have an education, bow down to me" response style. I should reiterate that this probably works on lots of people -- it does not work for us. It's perfectly reasonable to meet authors half-way, but it seemed to me that most of us were terribly civil to Dr Mack most of the time, and that for the most part we *did* try to meet him half way. We, as the larger group, cannot universally bear the brunt of communication.

Holy shit, Enki just posted something intelligent and insightful.

:omg:

well, it's Enki version 2.0.... now with 30% more comprehensability!  :D

also, if you squint your eyes, the text forms a sigil....

also, i agree with his sentiments

Quote from: Cramulus on July 28, 2009, 08:47:07 PM
To me, part of that thread read like the hazing that newbies often get. It was the whole "learn to communicate with us" (not the other way around) vibe, and also the ad hominems.

huh? how did you get that? i didnt get that at all.

i saw mostly everyone trying real hard to have a meaningful discussion with the author, but he refused to discuss anything either for being not written in perfect e-prime (which is pretty hard if that's not your thing and totally condescending to request) or for simply being questioning.

i can't imagine even the nicest person having an actual discussion with that guy's attitude. he didnt want to have a discussion, but more like a magazine interview or a press conference.

i don't think he would have answered any question except "your book is awesome, would you please tell us something more about it?" or "what influenced you to write this book?" and other perfectly neutral questions that would allow him to expose on pretty much whatever he fancies.

but wait, i may have an idea for that!

basically if that's the only way an author wants to "discuss" their work, I'd rather have them blog about it, because it doesn't misleadingly give the impression of two-way communication. so if this happens again, why not ask them to write for Verwirrung? it'll stroke their bloated ego and hopefully distract their attention from our actual discussion.

however, how likely is it to happen again? first the author has to show up, and then he also has to be a condescending hippie master.

Quotewe don't need to challenge them, provoke them, break them out of their BIP, thicken their skin, or otherwise irritate them towards us.

unless they deserve it.

or it's funny.

or a million other exceptions.

I'm just apprehensive because I can easily see this developing into a trend where we read books and then piss off the authors. Posting on an internet forum and interacting with a dozen strangers is challenging, but let's reduce HOW challenging when it comes to talking with the people whose ideas we're discussing. Hostility is a self-feeding cycle, especially on forums. It's SO easy to throw a snowball that becomes an avalanche.

yes! this brings me to another bunch of ideas we had:

1) Just to be on the safe side, from now on, we only pick books with authors that are DEAD.

1b) Variation: We get someone to answer our questions with a Ouijja board.

2) We pick open source creative commons books from authors that are active online to draw them to our forum. But we only pick books about why quantum resonance proves the benevolence of the angelic lifeforce in rainforests and how we can use that to save the dolphins to teach us universal love powered faster than light travel in order to reunite with our spiritual sisters in the pleiades. Then we tear them apart for the lulz.

If I recall, Ben found us because he has some sort of google spider that looks for keywords?

I doubt that will happen twice.

Breaking news: PD.com book club busted by FBI as assassination ring, due to a ban on discussing living authors devolving into a deadly business of killing off writers they wished to discuss.

I declare the first book club experience a smashing success.

Quote from: Cain on July 29, 2009, 02:05:36 PM
Breaking news: PD.com book club busted by FBI as assassination ring, due to a ban on discussing living authors devolving into a deadly business of killing off writers they wished to discuss.

In that case, I nominate The DaVinci Code.

Quote from: LMNO on July 29, 2009, 08:42:52 PM

Quote from: Cain on July 29, 2009, 02:05:36 PM
Breaking news: PD.com book club busted by FBI as assassination ring, due to a ban on discussing living authors devolving into a deadly business of killing off writers they wished to discuss.

In that case, I nominate The DaVinci Code.

DaVinci's already dead, stupid.

Right, working from the assumption that Angel-Tech was indeed the choice for the next book, I have uploaded it here: http://ifile.it/vjagfkr

Start a discussion on, say, August 17th or so?  Although, I don't mind putting it back another week, if you think we need three.  In fact, it might work out better, since I have some stuff in the next two weeks that is going to limit my online time a little.

Downloaded.  No promises It'll be read by the 17th, but I'll see what happens.

Ah.  There are lots of illustrations.  That might make it more difficult for me, as the Kindle doesn't do those terribly well.  But I'll make do.

Quote from: Cain on July 30, 2009, 12:24:52 PM
Right, working from the assumption that Angel-Tech was indeed the choice for the next book, I have uploaded it here: http://ifile.it/vjagfkr

Start a discussion on, say, August 17th or so?  Although, I don't mind putting it back another week, if you think we need three.  In fact, it might work out better, since I have some stuff in the next two weeks that is going to limit my online time a little.

Excellent!
thanks for the book, Cain...

I'd also like to nominate "The Nothing That Is - A Natural History of Zero" by Robert Kaplan. Or would non-fiction  be too difficult for a book club?

Is that the same Robert Kaplan who wrote The Coming Anarchy (which is pretty good) and shills for the Neocons on an ad hoc basis in Foreign Affairs?

Quote from: Cain on July 30, 2009, 10:16:48 PM
Is that the same Robert Kaplan who wrote The Coming Anarchy (which is pretty good) and shills for the Neocons on an ad hoc basis in Foreign Affairs?

No, that is Robert D. Kaplan. It is also not Robert S. Kaplan, Baker Foundation Professor at Harvard Business School. It is a different Robert Kaplan that taught mathematics at Harvard. Who knew that it was such a common name?

"The Coming Anarchy" sounds like a good title for a porno.

Quote from: Iason Ouabache on July 30, 2009, 11:47:00 PM

Quote from: Cain on July 30, 2009, 10:16:48 PM
Is that the same Robert Kaplan who wrote The Coming Anarchy (which is pretty good) and shills for the Neocons on an ad hoc basis in Foreign Affairs?

No, that is Robert D. Kaplan. It is also not Robert S. Kaplan, Baker Foundation Professor at Harvard Business School. It is a different Robert Kaplan that taught mathematics at Harvard. Who knew that it was such a common name?

Its still not as common as "Kagan" in American academia.

Unfortunately, since the Kagans are all related, and all seem intent on pushing their lunatic agenda through as many think tanks and faculties as possible.  At least the Kaplans seem to be of a non hive-mind type (though they should all get together and write a book, tying their respective disciplines together.  I'd buy it).

Quote from: Enki v. 2.0 on July 31, 2009, 12:05:17 AM
"The Coming Anarchy" sounds like a good title for a porno.

It already is porno (for societal collapse and Max Max scenario enthusiasts, anyway).

Quote from: Cain on July 31, 2009, 12:36:24 PM

Quote from: Enki v. 2.0 on July 31, 2009, 12:05:17 AM
"The Coming Anarchy" sounds like a good title for a porno.

It already is porno (for societal collapse and Max Max scenario enthusiasts, anyway).

I yell "Who run barter town?!" at the appropriate moment, every time with the little lady.

 :lulz:

so, um.....
just to be sure, i'm not the only one reading AngelTech yet, right?

i thought we were reading Alice in wonderland

Quote from: Iptuous on August 01, 2009, 04:04:10 AM
so, um.....
just to be sure, i'm not the only one reading AngelTech yet, right?

I started reading the TOC and the introduction, it's already more interesting than PWC :-) [seriously, instead of "I hope this will start being interesting soon" I'm curious to read more]

I downloaded it, but in the context of knowing whether or not it's the next book, I am unsure.

I think a definite decision should be made VERY soon to avoid massive amounts of confusion and discord.

I intend to read it either way.

Quote from: Enki v. 2.0 on August 02, 2009, 04:29:14 AM
I intend to read it either way.

Ditto. I've liked what I've read so far, but I'd be perfectly willing to read Alice in Wonderland, too.

Quote from: Skieth on August 02, 2009, 04:00:20 AM
I think a definite decision should be made VERY soon to avoid massive amounts of confusion and discord.

well if it makes you happy, i hereby decide that we will read Angeltech.

but only the odd pages.

I may not be able to keep up with the reading, since I have stuff going on this week and next.  The least stressful of which will be a citizenship ceremony.  I mean, I'll probably flick through, but since my personal time is going to be a lot less than it once was, I have to prioritise, and the book club may get left by the wayside for the moment.

Naturally, this also means I probably wont be online too much, either.

Quote from: Broken AI on August 03, 2009, 10:29:59 AM

so whats the next book then. this angeltech one?

Yes. it has been Officially Declared.™

download read digest
:)

Quote/someone/ have uploaded it here: http://ifile.it/vjagfkr

I know Angel Tech hasn't run it's entire course yet, but I went to pick up The Stranger and noticed it's only 120 pages which seems to fit the theme of "books you can cram into your busy schedule."  I hear it's not a terrible book as well... =P

Are we going to move on to another book or is this idea dead already?  :?

School, procrastination, and having other books I'd prefer to be reading is keeping me from doing Angel Tech. I'd be happy to suggest books for people not in this situation, though.

I just couldn't get into AngelTech.... i probably will later, but i'm out on that one.
I've been reading 'Guns Germs and Steel', although i've only got 125 pages under my belt, and i started weeks ago....
i needed something a little more grounded.
is anybody still reading the AngelTech, and planning on discussing it further?  the conversation on it was good to read.

I believe LMNO still is.

Yup.  I tend not to talk about a book until I'm done, and my reading time has been slashed drastically lately.  


However, for suggestions on future works, I nominate "Listen, Little Man!" by W. Reich.  It's a short, punchy, rant-like polemic diatribe against the fascist in all of us.  

A sample quote:

QuoteFor twenty-five years, in the written and spoken word, I have advocated your right to happiness in the world; have accused you of your inability to take what belongs to you, to secure what you had gained in the bloody battles of the Vienna barricades, in the American emancipation or the Russian revolution.  Your Paris ended in Petain and your Vienna in Hitler; your Russia in Stalin, and your America could end in the regime of a KKK.  You knew better how to win your freedom than how to safeguard it for yourself and others.  I have known this for a long time.  What I couldn't understand was why, every time you had fought your way laboriously out of one morass, you got into a worse one.  Then, slowly and gropingly, I found what makes you a slave: YOU ARE YOUR OWN SLAVE-DRIVER.  Nobody else except you yourself carries the responsibility for your slavery.  Nobody else.

I'm just about finished, unfortunately things have got pretty hectic since I got to toronto, but I'm still up for some book club shenanigans.

Quote from: LMNO on September 03, 2009, 01:20:22 PM
A sample quote:

QuoteFor twenty-five years, in the written and spoken word, I have advocated your right to happiness in the world; have accused you of your inability to take what belongs to you, to secure what you had gained in the bloody battles of the Vienna barricades, in the American emancipation or the Russian revolution.  Your Paris ended in Petain and your Vienna in Hitler; your Russia in Stalin, and your America could end in the regime of a KKK.  You knew better how to win your freedom than how to safeguard it for yourself and others.  I have known this for a long time.  What I couldn't understand was why, every time you had fought your way laboriously out of one morass, you got into a worse one.  Then, slowly and gropingly, I found what makes you a slave: YOU ARE YOUR OWN SLAVE-DRIVER.  Nobody else except you yourself carries the responsibility for your slavery.  Nobody else.

I like that! I second this nomination.

I have a couple of other suggestions (I know, so far, my suggestions have been great).

Anne Norton - Leo Strauss and The Politics of American Empire

Part biography, part journey through modern American political philosophy, part polemic against Neoconservatives and the kulturkampf, this is surprisingly light and easy reading.

Page DuBois -  Trojan Horses: Saving the Classics from Conservatives

We've become accustomed to the wisdom of the ancient Greeks being trotted out by conservatives in the name of timeless virtues. At the same time, critics have charged that multiculturalists and their ilk have hopelessly corrupted the study of antiquity itself, and that the teaching of Classics is dead. Trojan Horses is Page duBois's answer to those who have appropriated material from antiquity in the service of a conservative political agenda-among them, Camille Paglia, Allan Bloom, and William Bennett. She challenges cultural conservatives' appeal to the authority of the classics by arguing that their presentation of ancient Greece is simplistic, ahistorical, and irreparably distorted by their politics. As well as constructing a devastating critique of these pundits, Trojan Horses seeks to present a more complex and more accurate view of ancient Greek politics, sex, and religion, with a Classics primer.

The Blood Bankers: Tales from the Global Underground Economy by James S. Henry

From 1970 to 2003, over three trillion dollars—$3,000,000,000,000—were loaned to developing countries by the West. Yet the gap between rich and poor is worse than ever. What happened? Where did all that money go? A financial insider, Jim Henry looks unsparingly at the snarl of transactions, often legal but usually immoral, that resulted in the rich getting richer and the poor, poorer.

Like tentacles on a vast octopus, the firsthand investigations in The Blood Bankers all lead to one core. A financial detective of sorts, journalist Jim Henry analyzes a range of scandals, including the looting of the Philippines by the Marcos family, corrupt lending in South America, and the financing of Al Qaeda.

A rogue's gallery of international criminals owes its existence to the dramatic growth of the underground global economy over the last two decades. Our world is being reshaped, often in sinister fashion, by wide-open capital markets and an international banking network that exists to launder hundreds of billions of dollars in ill-gotten gains.

Here is globalization's dark side—the new high-growth global markets for influence-peddling, capital flight, money laundering, weapons, drugs, tax evasion, child labor, illegal immigration, and other forms of transnational crime.

Damn, I'm gonna have to look into those, Cain.

Quote from: Broken AI on September 11, 2009, 01:43:25 AM
anyone got a nice story or is the book club gonna be heavy all the way ?  :cry:

I'd be up for some good old-fashioned smut, if you'd like....

I have Anathem by Neal Stephenson, which I haven't read yet, but by all accounts, that shit is heavier than radioactive refuse.

Quote from: Cain on September 06, 2009, 09:40:43 PM
Page DuBois -  Trojan Horses: Saving the Classics from Conservatives

We've become accustomed to the wisdom of the ancient Greeks being trotted out by conservatives in the name of timeless virtues. At the same time, critics have charged that multiculturalists and their ilk have hopelessly corrupted the study of antiquity itself, and that the teaching of Classics is dead. Trojan Horses is Page duBois's answer to those who have appropriated material from antiquity in the service of a conservative political agenda-among them, Camille Paglia, Allan Bloom, and William Bennett. She challenges cultural conservatives' appeal to the authority of the classics by arguing that their presentation of ancient Greece is simplistic, ahistorical, and irreparably distorted by their politics. As well as constructing a devastating critique of these pundits, Trojan Horses seeks to present a more complex and more accurate view of ancient Greek politics, sex, and religion, with a Classics primer.

this seems very interesting to me. nao to get pdf's working on Linux.

That one is actually a .djvu file.  There are readers around for it...just not many.

shit.

this may mean dead tree format for me....

I shall look it up when I get back from work and various other missions today.

Maybe not

http://www.linux.org/apps/AppId_3187.html

Get Calibre (should be in your repository), then use the command 'any2pdf'.  Converts dvju nicely.

Quote from: Cain on September 11, 2009, 09:41:33 AM
I have Anathem by Neal Stephenson, which I haven't read yet, but by all accounts, that shit is heavier than radioactive refuse.

this would be awesome.

Its in HTML, but that's easy to convert to any format.

My dad bought me "Outliers" by Malcolm Gladwell when he was in town lat month. Very very interesting look at how early choices influence success more than intelligence or ambition.

I'm a few chapters in, and the breakdown of the birthdates of professional Canadian Hockey players is really interesting. Basically, canadian kids are exposed to hockey at a very early age, and  there are multiple leagues as the kids get older. The top level of one league gets more training and coaching, more play time, and so get into a higher class of hockey league than others of their age. So the "best" kids play the "best" kids, etc, etc as they get older.

Well, because the first league has an arbitrary birthday cut-off (Jan 1), it's the kids that are born between January and May that get picked to go to the special training. This is because @ 10 years of age, the ones born in Jan thro May get 7-10 months of extra growing time, and are thus that much bigger and that much more mature than the kids born later in the year. So the bigger more mature kids get the extra training, which puts them in a better position to go to the A-level league next year. And the next, and the next.

90% of Professional Canadian Hockey players are born between January and May. All because of an arbitrary birth-date cut-off selection process.

wow - that's crazy interesting

What about the Phillipics?

That was the best ranting ever done, in that age or any other.

Actually here is one we can all agree on

Dan Brown's latest historical thriller masterpiece THE LOST SYMBOL.

Yes I have copies.  Both paperback and pdf.

Its not, trust me.

Emergence, quantum, Washington D.C. and Masons have all suffered terribly at his hand already, and I'm only 50 pages in.

Quote from: Cain on September 16, 2009, 03:14:02 PM
Its not, trust me.

Emergence, quantum, Washington D.C. and Masons have all suffered terribly at his hand already, and I'm only 50 pages in.

:lulz:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institute_of_Noetic_Sciences

These guys are getting a lot of play, too.

Quote from: Cain on September 16, 2009, 05:04:03 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institute_of_Noetic_Sciences

These guys are getting a lot of play, too.

Goddamn astronauts.  Let them go to the moon and they all freak the fuck out.

Because space, apparently, is really big, and this makes monkey brains go all wonky.

No no no, you see, Dan Brown explained it.  Thoughts have weight, right, so when enough people think about the same thing, it exerts a gravitational force which, uh, makes magic work.

Quote from: Cain on September 16, 2009, 05:16:05 PM
No no no, you see, Dan Brown explained it.  Thoughts have weight, right, so when enough people think about the same thing, it exerts a gravitational force which, uh, makes magic work.

This sounds awfully similar to Ben Mack's Good Energy Movement.

Quote from: Cain on September 16, 2009, 05:16:05 PM
No no no, you see, Dan Brown explained it.  Thoughts have weight, right, so when enough people think about the same thing, it exerts a gravitational force which, uh, makes magic work.

This sort of shit makes me wish I could shoot mind bullets.  :crankey:

Quote from: Broken AI on September 16, 2009, 10:53:51 PM
want I should go and check out his Institute in person?

I could do with exposing my brain to more whacky californian hippie crap. I think I've just about recovered from the drugging at the temple of isis last time.

I could leave a few TGRR hate flyers there to to expand their zero point energy holographic universe. (Yeah, I read his book a while ago.. like .. far out man ...)

YES.

I might just drive out there this weekend.

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 16, 2009, 09:46:54 PM

Quote from: Cain on September 16, 2009, 05:16:05 PM
No no no, you see, Dan Brown explained it.  Thoughts have weight, right, so when enough people think about the same thing, it exerts a gravitational force which, uh, makes magic work.

This sort of shit makes me wish I could shoot mind bullets.  :crankey:

Now you can  :mrgreen:  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKgilR4rIY0)

Quote from: Cain on September 16, 2009, 08:41:12 AM
Actually here is one we can all agree on

Dan Brown's latest historical thriller masterpiece THE LOST SYMBOL.

Yes I have pdf.

Formal Request, plz.

Quote from: LMNO on September 17, 2009, 03:58:09 AM

Quote from: Cain on September 16, 2009, 08:41:12 AM
Actually here is one we can all agree on

Dan Brown's latest historical thriller masterpiece THE LOST SYMBOL.

Yes I have pdf.

Formal Request, plz.

Oh, gawd!  I will not look.  I will NOT look.  I WILL not look.

I have read all four "Twilight" books. A silly conspiracy mystery can't do too much more damage.

Quote from: LMNO on September 17, 2009, 04:02:40 AM
I have read all four "Twilight" books.

Dude.   :x

I don't even know you anymore. 

LMNO
- Literary masochist.

Quote from: LMNO on September 17, 2009, 04:07:50 AM
LMNO
- Literary masochist.

(http://i476.photobucket.com/albums/rr126/TGRR/twilight2-main_Fulla.jpg)

(http://i476.photobucket.com/albums/rr126/TGRR/tinkerbell.jpg)

IT HURTS-- AND I LOVE IT!

(http://i476.photobucket.com/albums/rr126/TGRR/roghat1.jpg)

 :lulz:

I'm still standing by my suggestion of "Supersense". In chapter 6 he talks about hermaphrodites, freak shows, chi, the anal glands of civet cats, fluorescent potato plants, the Kreb's cycle, the Great Chain of Being, tiger penises, homeopathy, the placebo effect, chocolate fudge shaped like a dog turd, incest, and masturbating with a chicken carcass. How can you resist a book like that?

http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/5090022/Brown_Dan_-_The_Lost_Symbol.pdf

Also, Aleister Crowley namecheck.

The comments on that look suspicious. Can I trust it?

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 17, 2009, 04:16:14 AM
(http://i476.photobucket.com/albums/rr126/TGRR/roghat1.jpg)

HAWT!  But I want to see one with you smiling.

And I'm with Iason and Supersense.  Anal glands of civit cats--come on!  How can you resist?

Quote from: LMNO on September 17, 2009, 04:55:47 PM
The comments on that look suspicious. Can I trust it?

Its legit.  TPB commenters are about one step above Youtube commenters, at the best of times. I've gone to download legit economic textbooks before, only to read comments saying "trojan", "this infected my computer" and "nazi fuck die USA Amerikkka!" below it.

Quote from: Jenne on September 17, 2009, 05:45:14 PM

HAWT!  But I want to see one with you smiling.

And I'm with Iason and Supersense.  Anal glands of civit cats--come on!  How can you resist?

1.  I was smiling.

2.  Supersense sounds like it was written by Aini.

Aini and LMNO.  On acid.  In a fetish bar.

Also, I finished the Dan Brown book.  I actually forgot the name for a second there, it was so memorable.  I think I'm going to watch Angels and Demons, just to fully round off the experience.

Quote from: Cain on September 17, 2009, 06:56:13 PM
Aini and LMNO.  On acid.  In a fetish bar.

:aaa::1fap:

Quote from: Cain on September 17, 2009, 06:56:13 PM
Aini and LMNO.  On acid.  In a fetish bar.

The part where he compares DNA, the Kreb's cycle and symbiosis to essentialism, vitalism, and holism respectively sounded more like Kai.

Quote from: Iason Ouabache on September 17, 2009, 07:45:24 PM

Quote from: Cain on September 17, 2009, 06:56:13 PM
Aini and LMNO.  On acid.  In a fetish bar.

The part where he compares DNA, the Kreb's cycle and symbiosis to essentialism, vitalism, and holism respectively sounded more like Kai.

Except essentialism is bunk, vitalism goes way too metaphysical (strong emergence is a better argument), and holism is....well, actually, holism is pretty much right on with what I would talk about.

Wait, so have we decided on the next book? Is it DB?

Are we done with Angel Tech?

can it not be Dan Brown?

How about Foucault's Pendulum? I started reading that recently, and it's not half bad. I've got a PDF to distribute too.

I'm wrapping up Angel Tech, but we can move on.


But Foucault's Pendulum?  I suspect reading a doorstop of a book will kill the momentum.

Fuck, we might as well read Infinite Jest.

You have a point. I didn't really realize how long it was, reading a PDF version.

What about The Mothman Prophecies? I got through that in a day.

Quote from: LMNO on September 24, 2009, 01:51:32 PM
I'm wrapping up Angel Tech, but we can move on.

Eh, no rush, just wondering if their was something I should be reading to keep up with everyone.

So far, the popular suggestions seem to be

Page DuBois - Saving the Classics From Conservatives, or whatever it was called.
Supersense
The Philippics (by Demosthenes, or Cicero?  Not sure, either way, both are fiery Classical ranting)
Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell