http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1200486/The-Genesis-enigma-How-DID-Bible-evolution-life-3-000-years-Darwin.html?printingPage=true
The Genesis enigma: How DID the Bible describe the evolution of life 3,000 years before Darwin?
By Christopher Hart
The revalation[sic] came to Professor Andrew Parker during a visit to Rome. He was in the Sistine Chapel, gazing up at Michelangelo's awesome ceiling paintings, when a realisation struck him with dizzying force.
'A Biblical enigma exists that is on the one hand so cryptic it has remained camouflaged for millennia, and on the other so obvious one cannot miss it.'
The enigma is that the order of Creation as described in the Book of Genesis, and so powerfully depicted in the Sistine Chapel by the greatest artist of the Renaissance, has been precisely, eerily confirmed by modern evolutionary science.
:lulz:
That's truly dismal. The real disappointment is that you could make up a much more convincing story by just putting a little more effort into it.
Clearly everything evolved from Light and Darkness. We share a common ancestor with the Earth.
This sort of thing happens. When a particular myth is challenged in such a powerful way as evolution challenges the Genesis creation story, those who substribe to that particular myth must either become isolated from that challenge (impossible in this modern world, especially with such a world wide religion such as catholicism), discard the myth at which point it is lost, OR use intellectual strategies to develop new interpretations so that it continues on.
Who says you can't see evolution in the sistine chapel or in Genesis? I for one am not bothered by this interpretation. St. Augustine did it with the challenge of Neo-Platonism, and St. Thomas did it with the challenge of Aristotelianism. To quote Rue,
QuoteSuch reinterpretations restore the plausibility and relevance of the myth by demonstrating an essential compatibility between the narrative core and the new mode of thought. New modes of thought may even excite timely new insights into the timeless meanings of the myth.
Oh it doesn't bother me, no. In fact I noticed the rough similarity to the 7 day creation story and general evolutionary timeline myself as well, long time ago.
However the way the stuff they gloss over when it doesn't work is almost as big as the "incredible coincidences" they tout when it does happen to coincide, it's exactly what I said, beautiful example of the Lo5 in action :-)
The Daily Mail is chock full of the Law of Fives, on every day of the week.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1196636/Lipstick-lesbians-How-kiss-sparked-teenage-trend-disturb-parent.html
Because teenage girls never kissed before Kate Perry
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196709/Mystery-explosion-destroys-600m-Jewish-property-tycoons-offices.html
Because being Jewish is pertinent to exploding offices
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1194528/Claudia-Lawrence-targeted-married-men-money-40-mystery-lovers-reveals-friend.html
Being a slut means you're more likely to get murdered
Admittedly, these are more subtle connections than above (and some of these count more as innuendo, I suppose), but the Mail is always able to find a connection that proves their out of touch and bizarre worldview is the correct one.
I'm really glad I only stumble upon the dailymail articles I get via-via (mostly twitter).
I think once or twice I actually clicked on some links on that site.
brrr.
Quote from: Triple Zero on July 25, 2009, 08:57:15 PM
Oh it doesn't bother me, no. In fact I noticed the rough similarity to the 7 day creation story and general evolutionary timeline myself as well, long time ago.
However the way the stuff they gloss over when it doesn't work is almost as big as the "incredible coincidences" they tout when it does happen to coincide, it's exactly what I said, beautiful example of the Lo5 in action :-)
The catholics have actually been running the "Genesis is a metaphor" idea for years now. I remember being taught about punctuated equilibrium in sunday school (CCD, for those of you who recognize that term), no joke. The catholics actually aren't that bad anymore when it comes to science and social justice. There's just a few things they hang onto, like abortion, homosexuality and stem cell research; and believe it or not, they don't talk about these things much, if ever. Whereas you might hear all about the deadliness of sin and "you're all going to hell" and "repent" in other churches, the mass is three readings from old testament, new testament and the gospel, a generally kind and gentle homily from the priest or deacon, some prayer chanting, singing (hyms and psalms and responses) and a rather nice and powerful retelling of the last supper and sharing of a meal.
I don't know why I said all that really; sum it up, catholics aren't all that bad.
Quote from: Cain on July 25, 2009, 09:43:01 PM
The Daily Mail is chock full of the Law of Fives, on every day of the week.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1196636/Lipstick-lesbians-How-kiss-sparked-teenage-trend-disturb-parent.html
Because teenage girls never kissed before Kate Perry
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196709/Mystery-explosion-destroys-600m-Jewish-property-tycoons-offices.html
Because being Jewish is pertinent to exploding offices
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1194528/Claudia-Lawrence-targeted-married-men-money-40-mystery-lovers-reveals-friend.html
Being a slut means you're more likely to get murdered
Admittedly, these are more subtle connections than above (and some of these count more as innuendo, I suppose), but the Mail is always able to find a connection that proves their out of touch and bizarre worldview is the correct one.
Ung, I don't know how you do that, i got halffway through one article before I felt my brain trying to escape.
They fail to mention that in Genesis plants were created BEFORE the sun. Or that it describes the moon as a light and not a reflector. Or that birds were created before land creatures. Or that it very clearly says that animals reproduce "each according to its kind" which rules out common descent.
Look, I'm glad that most Christian churches are starting to accept evolution after only 150 years of evidence. I know that they have this overwhelming urge to retro-interpret the Bible into proving that the prophets secretly knew all along. Hell, they've been doing that to the Big Bang theory for decades. All of this retrofitting looks rather silly though. It would be better to just drop the creation myth altogether and realize that the writers of Genesis were ordinary men who were just guessing.
Quote from: Iason Ouabache on July 26, 2009, 07:43:48 AM
They fail to mention that in Genesis plants were created BEFORE the sun. Or that it describes the moon as a light and not a reflector. Or that birds were created before land creatures. Or that it very clearly says that animals reproduce "each according to its kind" which rules out common descent.
Look, I'm glad that most Christian churches are starting to accept evolution after only 150 years of evidence. I know that they have this overwhelming urge to retro-interpret the Bible into proving that the prophets secretly knew all along. Hell, they've been doing that to the Big Bang theory for decades. All of this retrofitting looks rather silly though. It would be better to just drop the creation myth altogether and realize that the writers of Genesis were ordinary men who were just guessing.
That may happen. However, given the power that this particular mythic base has over people, it's not likely. New interpretations will make it more accessible.
For whatever reason I'm not upset about it. I would have probably flamed the story in the past. Now I just think this is the normal progression of things. It's quite alright.
Quote from: Kai on July 26, 2009, 02:18:50 PM
For whatever reason I'm not upset about it. I would have probably flamed the story in the past. Now I just think this is the normal progression of things. It's quite alright.
Apart from a generalised annoyance that the normal progression of things is not a little bit faster, I agree.
Quote from: Cain on July 25, 2009, 09:43:01 PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1196636/Lipstick-lesbians-How-kiss-sparked-teenage-trend-disturb-parent.html
Because teenage girls never kissed before Kate Perry
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! :lulz:
Did it strike anyone else that that song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Su9zQnLUyiI&feature=related) is a perfect troll? Pisses off homophobes, pisses off homosexuals, pisses off straight people... And awesomely catchy, too.
Quote from: Kai on July 25, 2009, 10:55:59 PM
Quote from: Triple Zero on July 25, 2009, 08:57:15 PM
Oh it doesn't bother me, no. In fact I noticed the rough similarity to the 7 day creation story and general evolutionary timeline myself as well, long time ago.
However the way the stuff they gloss over when it doesn't work is almost as big as the "incredible coincidences" they tout when it does happen to coincide, it's exactly what I said, beautiful example of the Lo5 in action :-)
The catholics have actually been running the "Genesis is a metaphor" idea for years now. I remember being taught about punctuated equilibrium in sunday school (CCD, for those of you who recognize that term), no joke. The catholics actually aren't that bad anymore when it comes to science and social justice. There's just a few things they hang onto, like abortion, homosexuality and stem cell research; and believe it or not, they don't talk about these things much, if ever. Whereas you might hear all about the deadliness of sin and "you're all going to hell" and "repent" in other churches, the mass is three readings from old testament, new testament and the gospel, a generally kind and gentle homily from the priest or deacon, some prayer chanting, singing (hyms and psalms and responses) and a rather nice and powerful retelling of the last supper and sharing of a meal.
I don't know why I said all that really; sum it up, catholics aren't all that bad.
I wouldn't call it "hanging on" to abortion, as much as "perhaps the best organized global pro-life group." Stem cell research and homosexuality are a lot more tolerated in the "new guard" of younger people growing up now, though. The thing about the Catholic church is that even though it seems small in America, it's huge worldwide, and there are loads of opposing factions
within the church. My old Jesuit high school used to get protested by other Catholics over having pro-tolerance of homosexuality speakers and such. They have to walk a fine line between creating a respectful, nurturing atmosphere (especially at an all guys school) while also not
directly (or at least publicly) going against higher-ups in another continent. They pulled the (inter?)National Day of Silence from the calender of school events a while back to head off a public kerfuffle, but the students still do it anyway with the tacit approval of the staff.
ETA: Yes, the Catholics have been pushing the metaphorical interpretation of Genesis, but still like to see evolution as something that pulls humans towards the divine heaven-on-earth thing. See Omega point (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omega_point).
Quote from: forgetfulmari on July 26, 2009, 10:31:17 PM
Quote from: Kai on July 25, 2009, 10:55:59 PM
Quote from: Triple Zero on July 25, 2009, 08:57:15 PM
Oh it doesn't bother me, no. In fact I noticed the rough similarity to the 7 day creation story and general evolutionary timeline myself as well, long time ago.
However the way the stuff they gloss over when it doesn't work is almost as big as the "incredible coincidences" they tout when it does happen to coincide, it's exactly what I said, beautiful example of the Lo5 in action :-)
The catholics have actually been running the "Genesis is a metaphor" idea for years now. I remember being taught about punctuated equilibrium in sunday school (CCD, for those of you who recognize that term), no joke. The catholics actually aren't that bad anymore when it comes to science and social justice. There's just a few things they hang onto, like abortion, homosexuality and stem cell research; and believe it or not, they don't talk about these things much, if ever. Whereas you might hear all about the deadliness of sin and "you're all going to hell" and "repent" in other churches, the mass is three readings from old testament, new testament and the gospel, a generally kind and gentle homily from the priest or deacon, some prayer chanting, singing (hyms and psalms and responses) and a rather nice and powerful retelling of the last supper and sharing of a meal.
I don't know why I said all that really; sum it up, catholics aren't all that bad.
I wouldn't call it "hanging on" to abortion, as much as "perhaps the best organized global pro-life group." Stem cell research and homosexuality are a lot more tolerated in the "new guard" of younger people growing up now, though. The thing about the Catholic church is that even though it seems small in America, it's huge worldwide, and there are loads of opposing factions within the church. My old Jesuit high school used to get protested by other Catholics over having pro-tolerance of homosexuality speakers and such. They have to walk a fine line between creating a respectful, nurturing atmosphere (especially at an all guys school) while also not directly (or at least publicly) going against higher-ups in another continent. They pulled the (inter?)National Day of Silence from the calender of school events a while back to head off a public kerfuffle, but the students still do it anyway with the tacit approval of the staff.
ETA: Yes, the Catholics have been pushing the metaphorical interpretation of Genesis, but still like to see evolution as something that pulls humans towards the divine heaven-on-earth thing. See Omega point (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omega_point).
Yeah, the Jesuits seem cool. So do the Franciscans. Every religion has a mystic, forward looking branch.
Jesuits are generally a bunch with lots of questions, right? I bet Vatican City has a handful trying to keep them in line.
Quote from: Kai on July 26, 2009, 11:51:49 PM
Quote from: forgetfulmari on July 26, 2009, 10:31:17 PM
Quote from: Kai on July 25, 2009, 10:55:59 PM
Quote from: Triple Zero on July 25, 2009, 08:57:15 PM
Oh it doesn't bother me, no. In fact I noticed the rough similarity to the 7 day creation story and general evolutionary timeline myself as well, long time ago.
However the way the stuff they gloss over when it doesn't work is almost as big as the "incredible coincidences" they tout when it does happen to coincide, it's exactly what I said, beautiful example of the Lo5 in action :-)
The catholics have actually been running the "Genesis is a metaphor" idea for years now. I remember being taught about punctuated equilibrium in sunday school (CCD, for those of you who recognize that term), no joke. The catholics actually aren't that bad anymore when it comes to science and social justice. There's just a few things they hang onto, like abortion, homosexuality and stem cell research; and believe it or not, they don't talk about these things much, if ever. Whereas you might hear all about the deadliness of sin and "you're all going to hell" and "repent" in other churches, the mass is three readings from old testament, new testament and the gospel, a generally kind and gentle homily from the priest or deacon, some prayer chanting, singing (hyms and psalms and responses) and a rather nice and powerful retelling of the last supper and sharing of a meal.
I don't know why I said all that really; sum it up, catholics aren't all that bad.
I wouldn't call it "hanging on" to abortion, as much as "perhaps the best organized global pro-life group." Stem cell research and homosexuality are a lot more tolerated in the "new guard" of younger people growing up now, though. The thing about the Catholic church is that even though it seems small in America, it's huge worldwide, and there are loads of opposing factions within the church. My old Jesuit high school used to get protested by other Catholics over having pro-tolerance of homosexuality speakers and such. They have to walk a fine line between creating a respectful, nurturing atmosphere (especially at an all guys school) while also not directly (or at least publicly) going against higher-ups in another continent. They pulled the (inter?)National Day of Silence from the calender of school events a while back to head off a public kerfuffle, but the students still do it anyway with the tacit approval of the staff.
ETA: Yes, the Catholics have been pushing the metaphorical interpretation of Genesis, but still like to see evolution as something that pulls humans towards the divine heaven-on-earth thing. See Omega point (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omega_point).
Yeah, the Jesuits seem cool. So do the Franciscans. Every religion has a mystic, forward looking branch.
Jesuits are generally a bunch with lots of questions, right? I bet Vatican City has a handful trying to keep them in line.
At one point the Vatican actually disbanded the Jesuits, although I think that was more due to international politics. The Jesuits had their own share of scandals, though - a Jesuit missionary to India had the temerity to dress with and eat like the Brahmin caste, learn Sanskrit, study the Vedas, and even produce a theological commentary on them in Tamil. (incidentally, also being the first European ever to seriously study the Vedas, much less write theology about them.) There was a line in the Society's rules that its members were to wear the priestly attire of the local area - intended to to refer to the ways different European priests and monks dressed. de Nobili shaved his head and put on a red robe, complete with the triple cotton thread of the Brahmin, and took on the diet and most of the lifestyle of a Sannyasi. He avoided the Inquisition only because the Inquisition decided they didn't have the authority to inquisite into a matter that was already the subject of a Papal investigation.
Okay, that is AWESOME.
Kai,
Needs to get to know some Jesuits.