http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/08/lawyer-fbi-paid-right-wing-blogger-charged-with-threats/
QuoteA notorious New Jersey hate blogger charged in June with threatening to kill judges and lawmakers was secretly an FBI "agent provocateur" paid to disseminate right-wing rhetoric, his attorney said Wednesday.
Hal Turner, the blogger and radio personality, remains jailed pending charges over his recent online rants, which prosecutors claim amounted to an invitation for someone to kill Connecticut lawmakers and Chicago federal appeals court judges.
But behind the scenes the reformed white supremacist was holding clandestine meetings with FBI agents who taught him how to spew hate "without crossing the line," according to his lawyer, Michael Orozco.
"Almost everything was at the behest of the Federal Bureau of Investigation," Orozco said in a 45-minute telephone interview from New Jersey. "Their job was to pick up information on the responses of what he was saying and see where that led them. It was an interesting dynamic on what he was being asked to do."
"He's a devoted American," added the lawyer, who claims Turner was paid "tens of thousands of dollars" for his service.
Bill Carter, an FBI spokesman, said in a telephone interview the bureau's policy is "to neither confirm nor deny whether an individual has an association with the FBI."
Turner's alleged 5-year-long bureau stint ended sometime in 2007, Orozco said, the year the mischievous online group, Anonymous, briefly shuttered his site — turnerradionetwork.blogspot.com — with a denial of service attack. At the time, hackers also posted what appeared to be private e-mails between Turner and the FBI.
The e-mails are legitimate, said Orozco. The FBI approached Turner, now 47, in 2002, and he spewed rhetoric about politics, white supremacy, immigration, abortion and other hot-button issues for years in exchange for government cash.
What are the chance that he is making all of this up get out of a sentence? Why would the FBI intentionally stir up the right wing crazies?
"Neither confirm nor deny" = "Yeah, we did it. Fuck you." :lulz:
This is awesome.
Is anyone here _not_ a paid collaborator with some clandestine agency seeking to perform sociological experiments?
Quote from: fictionpuss on August 21, 2009, 03:03:11 PM
Is anyone here _not_ a paid collaborator with some clandestine agency seeking to perform sociological experiments?
Yeah. You can trust me. :)
i'd heard this on the conspiracy boards for several years now. (in fact, that was the way i heard about the guy) The only people that i noticed would deny it were stormfront types...
Quote from: Iason Ouabache on August 21, 2009, 09:03:52 AM
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/08/lawyer-fbi-paid-right-wing-blogger-charged-with-threats/
QuoteA notorious New Jersey hate blogger charged in June with threatening to kill judges and lawmakers was secretly an FBI "agent provocateur" paid to disseminate right-wing rhetoric, his attorney said Wednesday.
Hal Turner, the blogger and radio personality, remains jailed pending charges over his recent online rants, which prosecutors claim amounted to an invitation for someone to kill Connecticut lawmakers and Chicago federal appeals court judges.
But behind the scenes the reformed white supremacist was holding clandestine meetings with FBI agents who taught him how to spew hate "without crossing the line," according to his lawyer, Michael Orozco.
"Almost everything was at the behest of the Federal Bureau of Investigation," Orozco said in a 45-minute telephone interview from New Jersey. "Their job was to pick up information on the responses of what he was saying and see where that led them. It was an interesting dynamic on what he was being asked to do."
"He's a devoted American," added the lawyer, who claims Turner was paid "tens of thousands of dollars" for his service.
Bill Carter, an FBI spokesman, said in a telephone interview the bureau's policy is "to neither confirm nor deny whether an individual has an association with the FBI."
Turner's alleged 5-year-long bureau stint ended sometime in 2007, Orozco said, the year the mischievous online group, Anonymous, briefly shuttered his site — turnerradionetwork.blogspot.com — with a denial of service attack. At the time, hackers also posted what appeared to be private e-mails between Turner and the FBI.
The e-mails are legitimate, said Orozco. The FBI approached Turner, now 47, in 2002, and he spewed rhetoric about politics, white supremacy, immigration, abortion and other hot-button issues for years in exchange for government cash.
What are the chance that he is making all of this up get out of a sentence? Why would the FBI intentionally stir up the right wing crazies?
Miserable failure then.
In my optimistic fashion, I rather hope governmental agencies are doing this in a broader sense. As more people go online to cultivate their idiocies and lunacies, taking shelter and strength from being amongst similar minds... organised and purposeful trolling seems like the last barrier or defence against society falling victim to its own stupidity in an unprecedented scale.
Quote from: fictionpuss on August 21, 2009, 03:03:11 PM
Is anyone here _not_ a paid collaborator with some clandestine agency seeking to perform sociological experiments?
(http://rlv.zcache.com/i_can_neither_confirm_nor_deny_the_presence_of_tshirt-p235554728722418556q91g_400.jpg)
(http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/5228/inspectorlys.jpg)
8)
Quote from: fictionpuss on August 21, 2009, 03:03:11 PM
Is anyone here _not_ a paid collaborator with some clandestine agency seeking to perform sociological experiments?
Nope.
The whole site is an experiment to see what happens when everyone is being payed by the gov to cause havoc in the counter culture, but without knowing about the others. (unless you were hired by the NSA, I had nothing to do with that).
Quote from: Iptuous on August 21, 2009, 03:25:21 PM
i'd heard this on the conspiracy boards for several years now. (in fact, that was the way i heard about the guy) The only people that i noticed would deny it were stormfront types...
I bet your Nazi pals at GIM are pissed.
Quote from: Iason Ouabache on August 21, 2009, 09:03:52 AM
What are the chance that he is making all of this up get out of a sentence?
I don't see how it could get him out of a sentence. Also, if you've got some petty cash floating around and some co-conspirators, how difficult would it be to pretend to be from the FBI, especially if your target was already someone delusional?
Quote from: Iason Ouabache on August 21, 2009, 09:03:52 AM
Why would the FBI intentionally stir up the right wing crazies?
A good reason would be similar to why one might troll pagans for practice - to learn which techniques work and which don't. When your purview is information control and dissemination, it would be
irresponsible not to learn how to use the internet as a medium.
I would say I'm shocked only, um, I'm uh, not.
Alot of "FBI provocateurs" were the ringleaders of alleged terrorist cells during the Bush administration too. Usually the rest of the guys would be somewhat pious but otherwise alright Muslims who considered the provocateur their "crazy friend", up until the point they got charged while doing some sightseeing, or driving past anything vaugely important looking.
I can think of a few reasons to screw with the far right if I'm a shady government agent.
Plant an 'extremist' who downplays the use of violence.
Have somebody in place the crazies are already listening to if you decide to screw with them some other way later.
Keep track of who pays attention to the plant.
Increase the profile of the targets in order to get support for going after them.
That said, I may just be being cynical because I've recently been reading a lot about false-flag ops, from a theoretical perspective.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 21, 2009, 03:43:59 PM
Quote from: Iptuous on August 21, 2009, 03:25:21 PM
i'd heard this on the conspiracy boards for several years now. (in fact, that was the way i heard about the guy) The only people that i noticed would deny it were stormfront types...
I bet your Nazi pals at GIM are pissed.
Why are you still talking to me?
seriously, you and I have precisely zero to talk about.
:wink:
Quote from: Iptuous on August 21, 2009, 05:34:24 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 21, 2009, 03:43:59 PM
Quote from: Iptuous on August 21, 2009, 03:25:21 PM
i'd heard this on the conspiracy boards for several years now. (in fact, that was the way i heard about the guy) The only people that i noticed would deny it were stormfront types...
I bet your Nazi pals at GIM are pissed.
Why are you still talking to me?
seriously, you and I have precisely zero to talk about.
:wink:
:wink:
I tried it that way. You weren't having it.
:wink:
TGRR,
Thinks you shouldn't blame him for the fact that you hang out with Joo haters.
i don't blame you for anything, man. we're OK as far as i'm concerned.
from my recollection of your stint on GIM, the majority of posts you made were in threads that involved the vocal minority of racists of one sort or another. I just kind of ignore them... to each their own...
Quote from: Iptuous on August 21, 2009, 06:45:56 PM
i don't blame you for anything, man. we're OK as far as i'm concerned.
Yeah. Which is why you deliberately misconstrued what I said concerning the media a couple of weeks ago.
Because we're fine.
TGRR,
Doesn't consider gratuitous attempts to humiliate as "fine".
Quote from: Requia ☣ on August 21, 2009, 04:15:20 PM
I can think of a few reasons to screw with the far right if I'm a shady government agent.
Plant an 'extremist' who downplays the use of violence.
Have somebody in place the crazies are already listening to if you decide to screw with them some other way later.
Keep track of who pays attention to the plant.
Increase the profile of the targets in order to get support for going after them.
Or,
Use paid rightwing crazies to plant bombs
Blame on leftwing crazies
?????
Media hysteria
POLITICAL CAPITAL
I mean, its only happened eleventy billion times in Europe.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 21, 2009, 06:48:23 PM
Yeah. Which is why you deliberately misconstrued what I said concerning the media a couple of weeks ago.
Because we're fine.
TGRR,
Doesn't consider gratuitous attempts to humiliate as "fine".
Yer gonna have to refresh me. I generally don't attempt to 'humiliate' anyone, but it must have been something substantial to get to you. perhaps i owe you an apology?
Quote from: Iptuous on August 21, 2009, 07:54:33 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 21, 2009, 06:48:23 PM
Yeah. Which is why you deliberately misconstrued what I said concerning the media a couple of weeks ago.
Because we're fine.
TGRR,
Doesn't consider gratuitous attempts to humiliate as "fine".
Yer gonna have to refresh me. I generally don't attempt to 'humiliate' anyone, but it must have been something substantial to get to you. perhaps i owe you an apology?
I was mentioning that something I had brought up years ago is now officially "news" because the media has mentioned it.
You decided that was your cue to fucking pile on, "humoring me" about how "I had noticed it first", when the fucking POINT I was making was that people don't recognize anything as legitimate until the TV says it. It was fucking deliberate, wrecked my point, and was designed to humiliate. You know it, and I know it.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 21, 2009, 08:26:00 PM
Quote from: Iptuous on August 21, 2009, 07:54:33 PM
Yer gonna have to refresh me. I generally don't attempt to 'humiliate' anyone, but it must have been something substantial to get to you. perhaps i owe you an apology?
I was mentioning that something I had brought up years ago is now officially "news" because the media has mentioned it.
You decided that was your cue to fucking pile on, "humoring me" about how "I had noticed it first", when the fucking POINT I was making was that people don't recognize anything as legitimate until the TV says it. It was fucking deliberate, wrecked my point, and was designed to humiliate. You know it, and I know it.
Aaaaah.
gotcha. i remember, now. i don't recall what the context was, or what i said exactly, but i recall that i used some diminutive term or other like patting a kid on the head. it was meant as a jab in good humor. i didn't realize that i was on thin ice with you, and once the sin was done, i figured i'd just back off and let it lie. i reckoned it would either be forgotten, or after the initial heat, i could apologize if needed.
I figured it was forgotten, but i was wrong.
I apologize.
I really don't want bad blood here. I respect you as a valuable (and far senior) contributor to this forum, and enjoy your posts. Even when i don't agree with you, your arguments give food for though, and, absent that, your vim gives levity to the atmosphere. :) Sometimes it is hard for me to tell when you are simply joking about being upset, and when you actually
are upset, but that just keeps one on their toes. :wink:
Quote from: Iptuous on August 21, 2009, 09:14:42 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 21, 2009, 08:26:00 PM
Quote from: Iptuous on August 21, 2009, 07:54:33 PM
Yer gonna have to refresh me. I generally don't attempt to 'humiliate' anyone, but it must have been something substantial to get to you. perhaps i owe you an apology?
I was mentioning that something I had brought up years ago is now officially "news" because the media has mentioned it.
You decided that was your cue to fucking pile on, "humoring me" about how "I had noticed it first", when the fucking POINT I was making was that people don't recognize anything as legitimate until the TV says it. It was fucking deliberate, wrecked my point, and was designed to humiliate. You know it, and I know it.
Aaaaah.
gotcha. i remember, now. i don't recall what the context was, or what i said exactly, but i recall that i used some diminutive term or other like patting a kid on the head. it was meant as a jab in good humor. i didn't realize that i was on thin ice with you, and once the sin was done, i figured i'd just back off and let it lie. i reckoned it would either be forgotten, or after the initial heat, i could apologize if needed.
I figured it was forgotten, but i was wrong. I apologize.
I really don't want bad blood here. I respect you as a valuable (and far senior) contributor to this forum, and enjoy your posts. Even when i don't agree with you, your arguments give food for though, and, absent that, your vim gives levity to the atmosphere. :) Sometimes it is hard for me to tell when you are simply joking about being upset, and when you actually are upset, but that just keeps one on their toes. :wink:
Okay.
If you could keep the rain coming here in N. TX, it would be greatly appreciated, though...
Quote from: Iptuous on August 21, 2009, 10:14:56 PM
If you could keep the rain coming here in N. TX, it would be greatly appreciated, though...
Sorry, I have to rain all over Rhode Island for the rest of the year. Someone was bitching that they weren't getting enough rain.
Just keep it below rt. 495, ok?
Quote from: LMNO on August 22, 2009, 03:25:23 AM
Just keep it below rt. 495, ok?
No can do. Work order says dump the whole damn thing.
Well, fuck. Looks like I need to build an ark.
LMNO
- how big is a cubit, anyway?