Principia Discordia

Principia Discordia => Aneristic Illusions => Topic started by: Requia ☣ on September 04, 2009, 02:15:54 AM

Title: I finally understand politics.
Post by: Requia ☣ on September 04, 2009, 02:15:54 AM
It is of course no secret that politicians tend to go to extremely prestigious schools.  These schools aren't easy to get into, and require even more work to succeed in, often with mandatory percentages of failing grades given out, despite only the brightest (and richest) kids in America getting into them in the first place.

Once they get out, they do not of course run for office straight away, instead they work long hours doing some kind of menial intellectual task so that they can get even more networking done.  And of course, the elections themselves, not to mention the jobs, are high stress as fuck.  So they have to be coping with stress.

Well as it turns out, your brain copes with stress using these wonderful little chemicals called glucocorticoids.  Necessary if you want to function in that kind of life.  Unfortunately, these chemicals have a nasty little side effect, namely, they kill brain cells in the hippocampus, the part of the brain that interprets and stores new information.

In other words, being a politician causes brain damage.  :horrormirth:
Title: Re: I finally understand politics.
Post by: Kai on September 04, 2009, 03:11:57 AM
QuoteWell as it turns out, your brain copes with stress using these wonderful little chemicals called glucocorticoids.  Necessary if you want to function in that kind of life.  Unfortunately, these chemicals have a nasty little side effect, namely, they kill brain cells in the hippocampus, the part of the brain that interprets and stores new information.

Citation needed.
Title: Re: I finally understand politics.
Post by: Requia ☣ on September 04, 2009, 03:13:23 AM
"Discovering Psychology"  Its a telecourse for intro psych I'm recording.
Title: Re: I finally understand politics.
Post by: Kai on September 04, 2009, 03:43:11 AM
Quote from: Requia ☣ on September 04, 2009, 03:13:23 AM
"Discovering Psychology"  Its a telecourse for intro psych I'm recording.

I'm under a lot of stress. I seem to have no real trouble assimilating new information.
Title: Re: I finally understand politics.
Post by: Requia ☣ on September 04, 2009, 03:59:49 AM
A) It takes extended exposure.  Years, at minimum.

B) Individual cases are not indicative of the group.  At most it can demonstrate variation occurs.

C) It should be noted I'm playing this for laughs, not as a serious proposal.  (Also I want to see if Cain declares I'm wrong and politicians really lead irresponsible care free lives while sponging of their parents).
Title: Re: I finally understand politics.
Post by: Soylent Green on September 04, 2009, 04:33:41 AM
And now I must ask a possibly retarded question:

Can doing shrooms regrow brain cells in the hippocampus?

Someone told me they did a while back, I called bullshit, but never found out if it was true or not.
Title: Re: I finally understand politics.
Post by: Requia ☣ on September 04, 2009, 04:37:58 AM
I'd need the proper term for the kind(s) of mushrooms people use to do research on its cognitive effects.
Title: Re: I finally understand politics.
Post by: Bruno on September 04, 2009, 04:53:07 AM
What, you mean like species names?

Psilocybe cubensis is by far the most common, but there are probably a hundred or so active species.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Psilocybin_mushrooms
Title: Re: I finally understand politics.
Post by: Requia ☣ on September 04, 2009, 05:28:47 AM
Apparently the term used in the literature is psylocybin.

Not much work into its effects on the hippocampus.  It does suppress the hippocampus while its active.  One study found that there was no change in EEG for the hippocampus region when not actually on the drug (was done with monkeys, but the hippocampus is pretty standard for all mammals, it should be the same in humans).  The EEG study wasn't repeated (as in no one tried, not no repeatable results) that I can find either.  Makes it a bit tough to say how reliable the finding is.

My professional opinion is that that idea is 'total bullshit'.
Title: Re: I finally understand politics.
Post by: Requia ☣ on September 04, 2009, 05:33:34 AM
Sources

Horibe, M. (1974, March). The effects of psilocybin on EEG and behavior in monkeys. Activitas Nervosa Superior, 16(1), 40-42. Retrieved September 4, 2009, from PsycINFO database.

Passie, Torsten, Seifert, Juergen, Schneider, Udo & Emrich, Hinderk M. (2002). The pharmacology of psilocybin. Addiction Biology, 7 (4), 357-364. Retrieved September 04, 2009, from http://www.informaworld.com/10.1080/1355621021000005937
Title: Re: I finally understand politics.
Post by: Requia ☣ on September 04, 2009, 05:43:57 AM
It has the opposite effect when eating apparently, a study done in cats showed the hippocampus as being overactive while eating, and only underactive for other kinds of stimuli.  Not changing my conclusion though.

Adey, W., Bell, F., & Dennis, B. (1962). Effects of LSD-25, psilocybin and psilocin on temporal lobe EEG patterns & learned behavior in the cat. Neurology, 12(9), 591-602. Retrieved September 4, 2009, from PsycINFO database.
Title: Re: I finally understand politics.
Post by: Sir Squid Diddimus on September 04, 2009, 06:11:46 AM
I FARTED!!
           \
(http://breakingupdate.com/files/brook.jpg)
Title: Re: I finally understand politics.
Post by: Cain on September 04, 2009, 09:12:14 AM
Here the long hours of free work are used to price out anyone below upper middle class.  The internships are a clever screening system, whereby anyone not already profiting from the current system is excluded because, lets face it, you cannot afford to do a 3 month internship in London for free unless someone is already paying your way.  I did one at Uni, but that was at the same time as my course, and I spent all summer working two jobs, so I could afford it.

However, usually there are copious amounts of free coffee.  And, as we know, coffee induces paranoia http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/too-much-coffee-can-induce-aggression-and-paranoia-584645.html
Title: Re: I finally understand politics.
Post by: Triple Zero on September 04, 2009, 09:20:49 AM
AND THEN I POOMPED!!
           \
(http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/4204/rolloutthebarrel.jpg)
Title: Re: I finally understand politics.
Post by: Jenne on September 04, 2009, 04:50:51 PM
Penn & Teller did a "Bullshit" episode on stress...showed that it is all a hum, really.
Title: Re: I finally understand politics.
Post by: Requia ☣ on September 04, 2009, 07:58:32 PM
If you're going to appeal to authority, it would help if you didn't appeal to stage magicians.  I've seen the show, they don't even have the ability to do a double blind experiment.

For a better look at the effects of stress: http://www.pbs.org/saf/1310/video/watchonline.htm (pbs hasn't figured out flash yet apparently, you may need some work to get those to run).
Title: Re: I finally understand politics.
Post by: Soylent Green on September 04, 2009, 10:31:43 PM
Quote from: Requia ☣ on September 04, 2009, 05:28:47 AM
Apparently the term used in the literature is psylocybin.

Not much work into its effects on the hippocampus.  It does suppress the hippocampus while its active.  One study found that there was no change in EEG for the hippocampus region when not actually on the drug (was done with monkeys, but the hippocampus is pretty standard for all mammals, it should be the same in humans).  The EEG study wasn't repeated (as in no one tried, not no repeatable results) that I can find either.  Makes it a bit tough to say how reliable the finding is.

My professional opinion is that that idea is 'total bullshit'.

Hah, thought so.

Thanks for the info.
Title: Re: I finally understand politics.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on September 04, 2009, 10:34:23 PM
Oh oh, Requia's in "Pedantic Weasel" mode, again.   :lulz:
Title: Re: I finally understand politics.
Post by: Jenne on September 04, 2009, 11:43:07 PM
Actually what they show is that stress is no different now than it ever has been, it's what the media and the people who want to SELL you something to make it BETTER have to do with it that's the interesting part.

Interesting meaning how America's being sold down a river because of it.  

FACT:  when you're overfed, you worry about shit like STRESS.  When DON'T EAT, then stress is kinda not a big deal.

ETA:  Req, you sound like those who say Stewart, Colbert and Maher are talking out their asses because they make the news ha-ha-funny while pointing out the wah-wah-reality.  Not because their news is worthy of being said or made note of.

Arrogant, in other words.

But I getcha.
Title: Re: I finally understand politics.
Post by: Requia ☣ on September 05, 2009, 01:03:07 AM
I suppose the arrogance thing is fair.

The factoid... seems reasonable, stress coping chems shut down the digestive tract, you'd have to stop using them if you eat.
Title: Re: I finally understand politics.
Post by: Kai on September 05, 2009, 07:22:48 PM
I accept that stress causes vascular constriction leading to increased cases of cardiovascular malfunction, and other related impacts, but I don't accept that it causes hippocampus neurodegeneration any more than any other part of the brain.
Title: Re: I finally understand politics.
Post by: Sir Squid Diddimus on September 06, 2009, 03:09:25 AM
Quote from: Kai on September 05, 2009, 07:22:48 PM
I accept that stress causes vascular constriction leading to increased cases of cardiovascular malfunction, and other related impacts, but I don't accept that it causes hippocampus neurodegeneration any more than any other part of the brain.

this.

Title: Re: I finally understand politics.
Post by: ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞ on September 07, 2009, 01:59:30 AM
Quote from: Kai on September 05, 2009, 07:22:48 PM
I accept that stress causes vascular constriction leading to increased cases of cardiovascular malfunction, and other related impacts, but I don't accept that it causes hippocampus neurodegeneration any more than any other part of the brain.

In chronic cases (http://www.stormingmedia.us/82/8217/A821773.html) the "glucocorticoids exacerbate the effect of excitatory amino acids."

Also from the paper linked above:

Quote

Vietnam veterans with PTSD have decreased hippocampal volume on MRI, as well as decreased scores on standardized tests of memory. Short term (recent) memory function has been localized to the hippocampus.

Title: Re: I finally understand politics.
Post by: Kai on September 07, 2009, 02:18:49 AM
Quote from: Ne+@uNGr0+ on September 07, 2009, 01:59:30 AM
Quote from: Kai on September 05, 2009, 07:22:48 PM
I accept that stress causes vascular constriction leading to increased cases of cardiovascular malfunction, and other related impacts, but I don't accept that it causes hippocampus neurodegeneration any more than any other part of the brain.

In chronic cases (http://www.stormingmedia.us/82/8217/A821773.html) the "glucocorticoids exacerbate the effect of excitatory amino acids."

Also from the paper linked above:

Quote

Vietnam veterans with PTSD have decreased hippocampal volume on MRI, as well as decreased scores on standardized tests of memory. Short term (recent) memory function has been localized to the hippocampus.




So if A=B and C=D, B=C?
Title: Re: I finally understand politics.
Post by: ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞ on September 07, 2009, 02:56:14 AM
There's a strong correlation between stress and hippocampus atrophy.

Google "Robert M. Sapolsky" if you don't believe me.

The guy is Professor of Neurology and Neurological Sciences at Stanford University and has been studying stress for a few decades.
Title: Re: I finally understand politics.
Post by: Halfbaked1 on September 09, 2009, 11:18:39 AM
I would just like to say that I am so happy i found this place.  You guys are like long lost family that I would date if it weren't illegal so I just end up hugging you longer than is casually acceptable.  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: I finally understand politics.
Post by: Sir Squid Diddimus on September 09, 2009, 04:01:14 PM
Quote from: Halfbaked1 on September 09, 2009, 11:18:39 AM
I would just like to say that I am so happy i found this place.  You guys are like long lost family that I would date if it weren't illegal so I just end up hugging you longer than is casually acceptable.  :mrgreen:


........... don't touch me
            \
(http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/4011/brak14.jpg)
Title: Re: I finally understand politics.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on September 10, 2009, 07:07:29 PM
Quote from: Squid on September 09, 2009, 04:01:14 PM
Quote from: Halfbaked1 on September 09, 2009, 11:18:39 AM
I would just like to say that I am so happy i found this place.  You guys are like long lost family that I would date if it weren't illegal so I just end up hugging you longer than is casually acceptable.  :mrgreen:


........... don't touch me
            \
(http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/4011/brak14.jpg)

Shut up, you know you like it.
Title: Re: I finally understand politics.
Post by: Sir Squid Diddimus on September 10, 2009, 07:15:19 PM

(http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/muppet/images/6/6b/Samarrow.jpg)