http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1212013/Revealed-The-ghost-fleet-recession-anchored-just-east-Singapore.html
so apparently, there's zillions of empty mega cargo ships hanging around near singapore, according to the article, a "fleet" larger than the US and UK navies combined. 12% of the global cargo fleet, expected to rise to 25% of idleness.
the ships are supposed to be transporting our christmas electronics or some such, but because of the recession, retailers are expecting less consumer buying power, plus they don't have the credit for large stocks anymore.
more crazy is that South Korea is still building ships by the fleet, because building a mega cargo ship is kind of a large project, the contracts have been signed in 2006/2007. so these shipyard workers in SK are still building huge ships that nobody actually really wants anymore.
the upshot of this story is that you can now buy a mega cargo ship for as little as €4000, or chartering an entire bulk freighter suitable for carrying raw materials from China to the UK for just €7000! who wants to go on a cruise? :-D
I do!!
Can we have pina coladas on the ledo deck??
Quote from: Triple Zero on September 18, 2009, 04:12:27 PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1212013/Revealed-The-ghost-fleet-recession-anchored-just-east-Singapore.html
so apparently, there's zillions of empty mega cargo ships hanging around near singapore, according to the article, a "fleet" larger than the US and UK navies combined. 12% of the global cargo fleet, expected to rise to 25% of idleness.
the ships are supposed to be transporting our christmas electronics or some such, but because of the recession, retailers are expecting less consumer buying power, plus they don't have the credit for large stocks anymore.
more crazy is that South Korea is still building ships by the fleet, because building a mega cargo ship is kind of a large project, the contracts have been signed in 2006/2007. so these shipyard workers in SK are still building huge ships that nobody actually really wants anymore.
the upshot of this story is that you can now buy a mega cargo ship for as little as €4000, or chartering an entire bulk freighter suitable for carrying raw materials from China to the UK for just €7000! who wants to go on a cruise? :-D
Thats like a 20th the cost of a house in ireland, I should make my home a super cargoship
The Discordian Commune idea just got a massive shot in the arm.
Shit yeah, we could travel the world in a giant container ship!
SCURVY FOR EVERYONE!
This is how the end begins.
Quote from: Triple Zero on September 18, 2009, 04:12:27 PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1212013/Revealed-The-ghost-fleet-recession-anchored-just-east-Singapore.html
so apparently, there's zillions of empty mega cargo ships hanging around near singapore, according to the article, a "fleet" larger than the US and UK navies combined. 12% of the global cargo fleet, expected to rise to 25% of idleness.
the ships are supposed to be transporting our christmas electronics or some such, but because of the recession, retailers are expecting less consumer buying power, plus they don't have the credit for large stocks anymore.
more crazy is that South Korea is still building ships by the fleet, because building a mega cargo ship is kind of a large project, the contracts have been signed in 2006/2007. so these shipyard workers in SK are still building huge ships that nobody actually really wants anymore.
the upshot of this story is that you can now buy a mega cargo ship for as little as €4000, or chartering an entire bulk freighter suitable for carrying raw materials from China to the UK for just €7000! who wants to go on a cruise? :-D
Hey, who wants to become pirates?!
Avast There ye Mateys!
\
(http://othersideoftheplanet.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/12/Pirate_squirrel_1.jpg)
Piracy is really only a summer job.
Seriously, check the stats on when attacks happen.
It's like Ramadan and bombings.
This is actually very serious. Consider:
1. The current economic crisis is driven by the failure of certain social fictions. There is nothing actually wrong with the means of production and transportation.
2. The first thing companies cut in a recession is training. The second thing is maintenance. Most of you probably have no idea what kind of manpower is required to keep industrial equipment operational. The odds of struggling shipping companies having the funds to maintain mothballed fleets are very low. Most of these ships are receiving little or no maintenance, in a wet, salty environment (and wet, salty environments LOVE eating equipment).
3. What number two means is that we are no longer facing non-real obstacles to the economy. Between 12%-25% of our transportation capacity will be crippled, if not rendered completely useless. Good luck with that recovery.
Somebody's going to have to invent teleportation right soon now.
I was going to be working on that, but they finally caught on to the fact that I don't have my GED. :( And I don't have $100 to get it, either. No college for me until next year.
All true. I've been following the drop in global shipping since stories appeared about it, in January/February this year. Interestingly, it didn't seem to be caused directly by the subprime mortgages and subsequent squeeze on credit, because the stimulus packages had no effect on the industry. This was one of the reasons I was so sceptical about a recovery, because it showed ploughing a ton of cash into the banks couldn't change the simple fact that consumerism is currently dead in the water. There is no way to spend out of this recession, because we spent more than we earnt (collectively, as countries) throughout the 90s and 2000s, with the expectation of further growth. Its like a pyramid scheme, it only works so long as you have more suckers willing to pick up the tab. When the scheme fell apart, with the subprime loans, suddenly, credit was cut and the banks wanted their money back. And with a jobless recovery, people don't have money to spend.
Quote from: Nigel on September 18, 2009, 06:50:55 PM
Somebody's going to have to invent teleportation right soon now.
Yeah, so we can start teleporting bombs into each others' capitols.
:lulz:
TGRR,
Understands monkeys.
Quote from: Cain on September 18, 2009, 06:51:18 PM
All true. I've been following the drop in global shipping since stories appeared about it, in January/February this year. Interestingly, it didn't seem to be caused directly by the subprime mortgages and subsequent squeeze on credit, because the stimulus packages had no effect on the industry. This was one of the reasons I was so sceptical about a recovery, because it showed ploughing a ton of cash into the banks couldn't change the simple fact that consumerism is currently dead in the water. There is no way to spend out of this recession, because we spent more than we earnt (collectively, as countries) throughout the 90s and 2000s, with the expectation of further growth. Its like a pyramid scheme, it only works so long as you have more suckers willing to pick up the tab. When the scheme fell apart, with the subprime loans, suddenly, credit was cut and the banks wanted their money back. And with a jobless recovery, people don't have money to spend.
Yep. And now the infrastructure is beginning to rot.
Fortunately, our collective politicians are rearranging the deck chairs on the sinking ship of commerce, and things will be right as rain in no time. And the band played on.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 18, 2009, 06:57:29 PM
Quote from: Nigel on September 18, 2009, 06:50:55 PM
Somebody's going to have to invent teleportation right soon now.
Yeah, so we can start teleporting bombs into each others' capitols.
:lulz:
TGRR,
Understands monkeys.
Oh, it'll be much worse than that. If the general populace have the ability to move about the globe unrestricted, borders and governments will lose all meaning.
Quote from: Nigel on September 18, 2009, 07:24:03 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 18, 2009, 06:57:29 PM
Quote from: Nigel on September 18, 2009, 06:50:55 PM
Somebody's going to have to invent teleportation right soon now.
Yeah, so we can start teleporting bombs into each others' capitols.
:lulz:
TGRR,
Understands monkeys.
Oh, it'll be much worse than that. If the general populace have the ability to move about the globe unrestricted, borders and governments will lose all meaning.
Or we'll wind up with one really big government.
muhaha
Very likely... but with a virtually unpolicable population. Actually, first thing that would happen is we'd all get chipped.
I'm sensing a little hostility here.
Its been a long day, and I'm cranky. I thought my point was pretty clear.
Sorry Nigel
I figured you were making a joke.
Sometimes I react to jokes by taking them completely literally.
What point were you trying to make? I did not see one. Also I did not see any metaphor.
Tyranncide is a cure for many ills.
Truth. And I imagine that would be a major factor preventing a tyrranical government from forming... no tyrant would survive long enough to impose a tyrrany.
Well, tyrannicide is actually only a cure for a single ill, but yeah.
Anyway, Roger's point about the infrastructure rings scarily true. This means, even if the economy does recover enough to be able to cause demand, there won't be the stuff in place to allow for mass spending like there was previously, whether or not we think that is a good thing.
I wonder what will go next? Presumably, the thing to do will be to watch how Singapore, Hong Kong and other major trading cities cope with the massively lowered amount of trade, and see how that would apply to us.
Less goods, which also become more expensive. I guess in general it's a great thing that the US is turning their debt around and saving more...they're going to need it if their buying power's going to be maintained in any way, shape or form.
What I'm wondering now is if "buying power" will cease to be the leading indicator of wealth since it's obviously overtaken GNP/GDP the last 2 decades.
another bright point: with less stuff moving around all over the globe, swine flu will be less wide spread
ok its a far shot, and doesnt really make sense. meh.
but still, how many people can live inside such a cargo ship if you decorate the lot a littlebit? i'm kind of thinking of an industrial techno rave cruise :)
rogers point makes it a tough idea to make a reality,
maintenance upkeep fuel and knowledgeable crew aren't cheap , how many offshore gambling nights, pirate raids smuggling trips do you need to make each month to keep it afloat crewed, gassed up to travel and supporting the hippie discordian floating party??
no, for 4000 you buy the boat, but for 7000 you charter it for one trip transporting cargo (which would include fuel and maintenance and shit cause normally you'd pay that for the cargo to get wherever it's supposed to go?).
hell no way im gonna run a boat myself.
surely with all the various skills we have on here, we must have a few able seamen (giggle)
Quote from: Triple Zero on September 19, 2009, 12:26:33 AM
no, for 4000 you buy the boat, but for 7000 you charter it for one trip transporting cargo (which would include fuel and maintenance and shit cause normally you'd pay that for the cargo to get wherever it's supposed to go?).
hell no way im gonna run a boat myself.
the direction things are going (and looking at the already low price of tickets ) we may be able to charter a luxury cruse liner for almost the same price soon....
Hmmm but that has a less cool cyberpunkish industrial adventure feel to it. Gotta think of the image right :)
Quote from: Broken AI on September 19, 2009, 11:12:14 AM
oh come on.
theres got to be more than 400 people here with 10 euros to spare each.
HMS Discordia?
Eh yeah, I'll collect for it :lol:, everyone please send me 10 euros and I will reward you with a magical discordian cruise liner.
I won't pocket the cash.
I swear.
Quote from: Rumckle on September 19, 2009, 01:27:20 AM
surely with all the various skills we have on here, we must have a few able seamen (giggle)
I have a friend who has passed all the required tests to captain a yacht and small boat. I've picked up a few tips, and know how to tie knots and navigate.
i am sure after a few trips back and forth across the pond we could learn enough to take control with a mutiny, and then we just shangi the hand full of sailors we need for the rest..
:lulz:
"Cruises without cruises" :lol:
Quote from: fomenter on September 18, 2009, 11:44:50 PM
rogers point makes it a tough idea to make a reality,
maintenance upkeep fuel and knowledgeable crew aren't cheap , how many offshore gambling nights, pirate raids smuggling trips do you need to make each month to keep it afloat crewed, gassed up to travel and supporting the hippie discordian floating party??
Wow. Someone listened.
I have to screenshot this.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 20, 2009, 04:41:14 PM
Quote from: fomenter on September 18, 2009, 11:44:50 PM
rogers point makes it a tough idea to make a reality,
maintenance upkeep fuel and knowledgeable crew aren't cheap , how many offshore gambling nights, pirate raids smuggling trips do you need to make each month to keep it afloat crewed, gassed up to travel and supporting the hippie discordian floating party??
Wow. Someone listened.
I have to screenshot this.
STOP KILLING OUR FANTASIES! :argh!:
Quote from: Broken AI on September 20, 2009, 11:59:59 AM
(http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/7417/bm11.jpg)
We should do one of those fonzi scheme thingys. heeeeeeey!
:lulz:
"Discordia cruise & rape systems PLC"
I really want to register that as a DBA.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 20, 2009, 04:41:14 PM
Quote from: fomenter on September 18, 2009, 11:44:50 PM
rogers point makes it a tough idea to make a reality,
maintenance upkeep fuel and knowledgeable crew aren't cheap , how many offshore gambling nights, pirate raids smuggling trips do you need to make each month to keep it afloat crewed, gassed up to travel and supporting the hippie discordian floating party??
Wow. Someone listened.
I have to screenshot this.
OKAY OKAY NO HAPPY FUN PARTY CRUISE
HERE IS MORE BAD NEWS FOR YOU MR GRUMPY YELLOW PILL
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/thousands-rusting-ship-hulls-are-fitting-tribute-speculative-market-bubble
apparently it's not just near singapore but at quiet and less quiet locations all around the world.
WHOOPIE YAY
- triple zero,
now realizes if he wanted to make creative holiday plans, he shouldnt have posted in Aneristic Elusions.
Just one question that immediately pops into my questioning mind. See, right now everybody (or at least a couple of smart reporters) are looking at vesseltracker and googlemaps for these ships and discovering huge clumps of inactive ships.
But pretty much nobody (at least no reporter) was looking before.
How irregular is this situation? How do we know these guys didn't just discover some well-known cargo-ship parking lots?
Or maybe a better question, cause I don't really doubt that this is irregular, how long has this situation been already? How was it a month ago? Three months? Last year?
hm indeed, according to some comments elsewhere (http://www.geenstijl.nl/mt/archieven/2009/09/gans_de_wereldmarkt_ligt_stil.html#comments), a large amount of the "dead" ships are simply waiting until there's place for them to dock and unload.
a lot of the ones in the zerohedge link, that is. however in the DailyMail pics we can see the ships near Singapore floating high above the waterline. So they are empty, but as long as we don't have pics of the others, they might just be waiting in line.
another comment, seemingly confirming my doubts:
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/thousands-rusting-ship-hulls-are-fitting-tribute-speculative-market-bubble#comment-73186
Another commenter at geenstijl.nl (http://www.geenstijl.nl/mt/archieven/2009/09/gans_de_wereldmarkt_ligt_stil.html#c82017501) did some calculations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_merchant_marine_capacity_by_country) to estimate a lowerbound on the global cargo fleet and came up with at least 34,822 ships in 2007 (if we are to believe the DailyMail article this number could have only grown since then).
Now if we were gonna believe DailyMail's article--that was just about the Singapore ghostfleet, mind you--12% of this number means about 4,200 ships laying still. Was it that many in front of Singapore? I got the impression they were talking about a few hundred or so?
(Also, (from the zerohedge article) "Most shocking is the situation around the Bosporus: the transit corridor between Russia and the rest of the world is orders of magnitude worse than even the Singapore case.", I hate hate HATE it when people fucking do that. An order of magnitude is an exponential measure, doubling or usually 10-fold. If you say orders of magnitude, plural, we're talking about 100 or 1000 times, which is bullshit. You could say "about an order of magnitude" but it wouldnt sound as scary? hrmzzfrg)
ships are becoming cheaper, so HAPPY FUN PARTY CRUISE could still happen.
It sounds like a larger version of my plan to get a seaworthy sailing ship for free.
I'll keep an eye out for ships that get dumped because the owners cant afford to keep them anymore.
Quote from: Regret on September 21, 2009, 10:39:23 AM
ships are becoming cheaper, so HAPPY FUN PARTY CRUISE could still happen.
It sounds like a larger version of my plan to get a seaworthy sailing ship for free.
I'll keep an eye out for ships that get dumped because the owners cant afford to keep them anymore.
If I buy one, I'm just gonna use it to ram the Golden Gate Bridge.
Because they wouldn't rename it after Joshua Norton.
I haven't forgotten
anything, Your Majesty.