Note: Yeah, I called you Lex. You asked me a difficult question a few years ago, so I'm gonna take liberties. You asked me once to explain a comment I made about once having been so scared so badly that I've never been scared again. It's been gnawing at my guts ever since, and I can't stop dreaming about a calendar page...December 1989, to be exact, and that calendar page is huge, wait, no it's not a calendar page is it? No, it's a stage curtain, and behind that curtain is an Awful Thing, something so awful that I had to take extra pills this morning before I could write it down. So this is your fault, dammit, and I'm gonna call you anything I like. Anyway, here goes.
Lex, I bet you didn't know that I used to be a musician. I don't want to discuss the exact instrument I played, because I don't want this to devolve into a technical discussion about tuning instruments or percussion or muzzle velocities or any of that shit.
Anyway, I was down in Panama, on a tour, and our manager sent us to a gig in an old sanitation district, you know, some kind of rave. We were essentially supposed to check the place out, see if it was going to be a potential regular thing, you know? It was kind of embarrassing, but we got lost finding the stage, like in Spinal Tap. Took fucking forever, until we finally walked out of one of the tunnels into a large room that used to be a pump station, and that's where the audience was.
They were a strange bunch, Lex, they were really a kinky crowd. They were all standing around tables, sewing bags about the size of baseballs into what looked like little dolls. But they weren't dolls, Lex, they were something else and that's not really important, and I don't want to talk about it.
We looked at them. They looked at us. We looked at what was on the tables.
We started playing.
I think it was a death metal tune, because all of our lyrics sounded like howling.
And just like one of those good gigs, the moment we started playing, they started dancing. They danced and they danced until I guess they got tired and fell down. I'm not sure, but I think one guy actually danced his leg off. But it was like one of those bad gigs, because the audience started throwing shit at us, you know, and we didn't even have chicken wire in front of us. One guy threw something at me and it carved a great big fucking gouge in my helmet. Another guy thew a bunch of shit that hit Guerrero right in his chest. He went down, kicking and cursing. Thankfully, Kevlar flak jackets are good for dealing with beer bottles or whatever it was they were throwing. Guerrero played a special solo, just for that guy.
But like all performances, this one had to end. We were exhausted, and the audience had all passed out or something. We walked around for a minute, and we saw what they'd been stuffing bags of "party favors" into.
We ran. Some gigs are just too much. But we sang an encore on the way out, Lex, you'd have been proud. It sounded like Danzig and Ramstein's weirder shit and maybe a little Rolling Stones, you know, Gimme Shelter. We ran until we hit daylight, and our manager was waiting for us and he kept telling us to stop singing, the gig is over, but we couldn't stop singing Lex, it was very strange. We kept singing and singing until they brought the Limo to take us back to the hotel. No, scratch that, it wasn't really a Limo, only the government has Limos, it was a helicopter with some other band's logo on it, a big cross. And we sang and sang all the way to the hotel.
I guess we pissed off our manager, Lex, because pretty soon I had a new manager, we called him Doc. Murph and I had stopped singing by then, but some of the other guys hadn't. As I understand it, Guerrero is still singing an aria, somewhere. Anyway, Doc told me that they found the dolls - only he didn't call them dolls - and how did I feel about that? I told him that it was a funny place to make dolls. He looked at me, and - here's where it gets really strange - he started to cry. Then he left, and one of the roadies took me to another room and gave me a vitamin shot that made me feel lots better.
Eventually, it was determined that I was fit to join another band, and life went on. I stayed in the biz til a silly rehearsal accident broke my knee, and I was forced to find a straight job. Rock N Roll involves a lot of jumping around, you know, and there's no room for a man with a gimpy leg. But I was a little different about things after that, Lex, I don't get scared anymore. I get mad, or I start laughing, but I don't get scared. And I don't like dolls much, you know?
But now I live in Tucson, and this town suits me. This town knows Rock N Roll, Lex, it understands what Bob Seger meant, you know, back in his glory days. Fact: Nothing Bad can ever happen to you, as long as Bob Seger is playing. I like Bob Seger, Lex, I like him a lot. He knows Tucson, just as it knows him. And he knows The Truth, Lex, The Truth that is the punchline to all of this rambling, the end of the shaggy dog story, the gotcha line, the end of a joke that sometimes still makes me laugh at night:
You can come back Baby, Rock N Roll never forgets.
Or Kill Me.
Damn!
You know when you read something and you really want to find the words to say how awesome it was, but then again it practically made you cry and piss yourself out of fear at the same time so you're not sure what the fuck you need to say?
Yeah, well this is one of those times for me!
edited because my thoughts came together after I left.....
There is no fucking answer.
:x
Honest, genuine applause. That is awesome.
I got nothing to say to this. It's all just awe!
Part of me wants to curse at you for sharing, part of me is impressed that you managed to keep it in your pouch for so long. Pass the pills, please.
Mr. Roger. You go! And damn, just, FUCK, but DAMN. Eta: love you Man.
ffuuu....
damn.
I am in awe.
However I still can't figure out what the dolls are. Lacking the proper referential I think.
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on November 01, 2009, 06:31:06 PM
I am in awe.
However I still can't figure out what the dolls are. Lacking the proper referential I think.
It looks like an infant and it's not artificial...
It's just as well you don't understand.
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on November 01, 2009, 06:31:06 PM
I am in awe.
However I still can't figure out what the dolls are. Lacking the proper referential I think.
They were yanking the guts out of dead infants and stuffing drugs in, to smuggle them. The worst part is, they only have about a 48 hour window between the time the baby is dead and when it's too smelly to travel with a "mother" to the USA, etc (I have never since been comfortable around babies that DON'T cry during flights). So how do you make sure you have enough absolutely "fresh" babies at the right time?
Oh, yeah.
Your parents told you there aren't any monsters. Your parents lied.
No.
The first post was literally breathtaking. An amazing piece of writing and I just had no idea how to respond to it. Brilliant, but at the same time, horrifying.
Having the horror spelt out like that, though.
...
Fuck.
Guess I sucked all the music out of the room.
Sorry.
fuck
I should really take a bit more time off, get my shit together. I have no fucking clue what prompted me to spell that out.
Kind of like the first time I read "The Things They Carried", but in a more Ellis / Thompson way. I'm glad I read it, but no response is appropriate.
It's never an 'isolated incident', is it?
I mean. When you realize, there were these guys doing that. Then there were the people smuggling them. Then there were the people on the other end. Then there were the people using the product. Then there were the people who, in some way, these events all touched.
Hell. I just read about it on an internet forum, and it's still shaken me, just to think that there are people out there capable of being so monstrous.
I've never felt so naive. I'd ask 'how can people do that'? But... the answer would just make things worse.
On the other hand. I'm glad Roger did spell it out. Somehow. It feels important that this shit ... be known. That we know that it has happened. We need to bear witness to it.
So... you made the whole story up, right Roger? The pills were just affecting your brain for a little bit, right? It was a little literary license to give us a Halloween scare, right Roger? Cuz there is no way that human beings could be capable of something so heinous, right Roger?
Right, Roger? Right????
:x :x :x :x :x
I think I shall vomit and spend the rest of the day rocking back and forth in my bed. Goodnight.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 01, 2009, 08:37:37 PM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on November 01, 2009, 06:31:06 PM
I am in awe.
However I still can't figure out what the dolls are. Lacking the proper referential I think.
They were yanking the guts out of dead infants and stuffing drugs in, to smuggle them. The worst part is, they only have about a 48 hour window between the time the baby is dead and when it's too smelly to travel with a "mother" to the USA, etc (I have never since been comfortable around babies that DON'T cry during flights). So how do you make sure you have enough absolutely "fresh" babies at the right time?
Oh, yeah.
Your parents told you there aren't any monsters. Your parents lied.
Wow.
Holy fucking shit wow.
I don't think my brain wanted to let me get that inference.
Um, thanks for shooting those people.
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on November 01, 2009, 10:52:50 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 01, 2009, 08:37:37 PM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on November 01, 2009, 06:31:06 PM
I am in awe.
However I still can't figure out what the dolls are. Lacking the proper referential I think.
They were yanking the guts out of dead infants and stuffing drugs in, to smuggle them. The worst part is, they only have about a 48 hour window between the time the baby is dead and when it's too smelly to travel with a "mother" to the USA, etc (I have never since been comfortable around babies that DON'T cry during flights). So how do you make sure you have enough absolutely "fresh" babies at the right time?
Oh, yeah.
Your parents told you there aren't any monsters. Your parents lied.
Wow.
Holy fucking shit wow.
I don't think my brain wanted to let me get that inference.
Um, thanks for shooting those people.
Don't think I had a choice, really. All the cool kids were doing it.
Quote from: Iason Ouabache on November 01, 2009, 10:06:03 PM
So... you made the whole story up, right Roger? The pills were just affecting your brain for a little bit, right? It was a little literary license to give us a Halloween scare, right Roger? Cuz there is no way that human beings could be capable of something so heinous, right Roger?
Right, Roger? Right????
:x :x :x :x :x
:horrormirth:
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 01, 2009, 10:53:37 PM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on November 01, 2009, 10:52:50 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 01, 2009, 08:37:37 PM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on November 01, 2009, 06:31:06 PM
I am in awe.
However I still can't figure out what the dolls are. Lacking the proper referential I think.
They were yanking the guts out of dead infants and stuffing drugs in, to smuggle them. The worst part is, they only have about a 48 hour window between the time the baby is dead and when it's too smelly to travel with a "mother" to the USA, etc (I have never since been comfortable around babies that DON'T cry during flights). So how do you make sure you have enough absolutely "fresh" babies at the right time?
Oh, yeah.
Your parents told you there aren't any monsters. Your parents lied.
Wow.
Holy fucking shit wow.
I don't think my brain wanted to let me get that inference.
Um, thanks for shooting those people.
Don't think I had a choice, really. All the cool kids were doing it.
Yeah, I know you didn't. I'm still glad you shot them. Even if it doesn't really do any good, it doesn't make the real problem go away, they were still people who very much need to not be around.
Also, thank you for spelling it out. For a change it was actually worse than any inference my brain was coming up with, but if you hadn't I don't think I would have ever thought about something like that really happening.
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on November 01, 2009, 10:57:03 PM
Also, thank you for spelling it out. For a change it was actually worse than any inference my brain was coming up with, but if you hadn't I don't think I would have ever thought about something like that really happening.
So why are you thanking me for that?
But there's a worse implication surrounding all of this, isn't there? If they were doing THAT 20 years ago, what are they doing NOW?
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 01, 2009, 11:01:07 PM
But there's a worse implication surrounding all of this, isn't there? If they were doing THAT 20 years ago, what are they doing NOW?
How long were you in Panama?
Quote from: singer on November 02, 2009, 12:04:12 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 01, 2009, 11:01:07 PM
But there's a worse implication surrounding all of this, isn't there? If they were doing THAT 20 years ago, what are they doing NOW?
How long were you in Panama?
Not very long. Why?
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 02, 2009, 12:07:08 AM
Quote from: singer on November 02, 2009, 12:04:12 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 01, 2009, 11:01:07 PM
But there's a worse implication surrounding all of this, isn't there? If they were doing THAT 20 years ago, what are they doing NOW?
How long were you in Panama?
Not very long. Why?
I was just wondering how prepared you were to play for a party like that.
Quote from: singer on November 02, 2009, 12:12:07 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 02, 2009, 12:07:08 AM
Quote from: singer on November 02, 2009, 12:04:12 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 01, 2009, 11:01:07 PM
But there's a worse implication surrounding all of this, isn't there? If they were doing THAT 20 years ago, what are they doing NOW?
How long were you in Panama?
Not very long. Why?
I was just wondering how prepared you were to play for a party like that.
Green as grass, ma'am.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 02, 2009, 12:13:27 AM
Quote from: singer on November 02, 2009, 12:12:07 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 02, 2009, 12:07:08 AM
Quote from: singer on November 02, 2009, 12:04:12 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 01, 2009, 11:01:07 PM
But there's a worse implication surrounding all of this, isn't there? If they were doing THAT 20 years ago, what are they doing NOW?
How long were you in Panama?
Not very long. Why?
I was just wondering how prepared you were to play for a party like that.
Green as grass, ma'am.
I'm sorry.
(long pause here while I search for something I'm willing to say on a public board... I got nothing.)
I am very sorry this happened to you.
....
:x :x :x
Why?
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 01, 2009, 11:01:07 PM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on November 01, 2009, 10:57:03 PM
Also, thank you for spelling it out. For a change it was actually worse than any inference my brain was coming up with, but if you hadn't I don't think I would have ever thought about something like that really happening.
So why are you thanking me for that?
But there's a worse implication surrounding all of this, isn't there? If they were doing THAT 20 years ago, what are they doing NOW?
Because I hate not knowing. And if it is a horrible truth I really want to know it.
What they're doing now is probably whatever works best. Hopefully something that doesn't involve killing babies, but yeah, it probably involves killing babies.
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on November 02, 2009, 01:30:16 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 01, 2009, 11:01:07 PM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on November 01, 2009, 10:57:03 PM
Also, thank you for spelling it out. For a change it was actually worse than any inference my brain was coming up with, but if you hadn't I don't think I would have ever thought about something like that really happening.
So why are you thanking me for that?
But there's a worse implication surrounding all of this, isn't there? If they were doing THAT 20 years ago, what are they doing NOW?
Because I hate not knowing. And if it is a horrible truth I really want to know it.
What they're doing now is probably whatever works best. Hopefully something that doesn't involve killing babies, but yeah, it probably involves killing babies.
Business, the American Way.
Well, maybe not the American Way. We just drop bombs on the little bastards. For Freedom.
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on November 02, 2009, 01:30:16 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 01, 2009, 11:01:07 PM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on November 01, 2009, 10:57:03 PM
Also, thank you for spelling it out. For a change it was actually worse than any inference my brain was coming up with, but if you hadn't I don't think I would have ever thought about something like that really happening.
So why are you thanking me for that?
But there's a worse implication surrounding all of this, isn't there? If they were doing THAT 20 years ago, what are they doing NOW?
Because I hate not knowing. And if it is a horrible truth I really want to know it.
What they're doing now is probably whatever works best. Hopefully something that doesn't involve killing babies, but yeah, it probably involves killing babies.
Also, farming or stealing babies.
There is also the recently popular 'kidnapping and then poisoning and returning of babies/small children' when you learn that their parents really are too poor to pay a ransom. I have been told the benefit to returning the poisoned to die painful deaths in the presence of their parents is that it will inspire the rest of the village to get their shit together and come up with some damn cash to support the revolution... or else.
Quote from: singer on November 02, 2009, 01:53:51 AM
There is also the recently popular 'kidnapping and then poisoning and returning of babies/small children' when you learn that their parents really are too poor to pay a ransom. I have been told the benefit to returning the poisoned to die painful deaths in the presence of their parents is that it will inspire the rest of the village to get their shit together and come up with some damn cash to support the revolution... or else.
Or maybe it will inspire something else. I know what it would inspire in me.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 02, 2009, 02:06:58 AM
Quote from: singer on November 02, 2009, 01:53:51 AM
There is also the recently popular 'kidnapping and then poisoning and returning of babies/small children' when you learn that their parents really are too poor to pay a ransom. I have been told the benefit to returning the poisoned to die painful deaths in the presence of their parents is that it will inspire the rest of the village to get their shit together and come up with some damn cash to support the revolution... or else.
Or maybe it will inspire something else. I know what it would inspire in me.
Yeah. I'd want to punish the bastards doubly for thinking there's money to be had in a village.
Quote from: yhnmzw on November 02, 2009, 02:16:43 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 02, 2009, 02:06:58 AM
Quote from: singer on November 02, 2009, 01:53:51 AM
There is also the recently popular 'kidnapping and then poisoning and returning of babies/small children' when you learn that their parents really are too poor to pay a ransom. I have been told the benefit to returning the poisoned to die painful deaths in the presence of their parents is that it will inspire the rest of the village to get their shit together and come up with some damn cash to support the revolution... or else.
Or maybe it will inspire something else. I know what it would inspire in me.
Yeah. I'd want to punish the bastards doubly for thinking there's money to be had in a village.
Not sure I'd analyze it that far. I think I'd just be collecting gasoline and phosphate-based soap for the next time they came calling.
I spent a good part of the weekend thinking this over. It only gets more frightening when your mind rolls it around for a while.
Roger, I have followed you across the internet because your posts have always opened my eyes to things I knew were there, but I couldn't quite get my mind around. Sometimes your stuff has made me laugh, sometimes it has made me cry, but it has always made me think. And for that, thank you.
I can tell you how sorry I am you had to go through this, or I can go on and on about the atrocities that are happeneing all around us. Will it change anything? Will it make things better for you or anybody? So while true and terrible, if you stop writing about this shit, I don't see anyone getting in line to do it instead.
It was an awesome post about terrible things.
Quote from: Khara on November 02, 2009, 03:25:00 PM
I spent a good part of the weekend thinking this over. It only gets more frightening when your mind rolls it around for a while.
Roger, I have followed you across the internet because your posts have always opened my eyes to things I knew were there, but I couldn't quite get my mind around. Sometimes your stuff has made me laugh, sometimes it has made me cry, but it has always made me think. And for that, thank you.
I can tell you how sorry I am you had to go through this, or I can go on and on about the atrocities that are happeneing all around us. Will it change anything? Will it make things better for you or anybody? So while true and terrible, if you stop writing about this shit, I don't see anyone getting in line to do it instead.
It was an awesome post about terrible things.
I'm not done writing, I've just freaked myself out a bit.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 02, 2009, 03:40:45 PM
Quote from: Khara on November 02, 2009, 03:25:00 PM
I spent a good part of the weekend thinking this over. It only gets more frightening when your mind rolls it around for a while.
Roger, I have followed you across the internet because your posts have always opened my eyes to things I knew were there, but I couldn't quite get my mind around. Sometimes your stuff has made me laugh, sometimes it has made me cry, but it has always made me think. And for that, thank you.
I can tell you how sorry I am you had to go through this, or I can go on and on about the atrocities that are happeneing all around us. Will it change anything? Will it make things better for you or anybody? So while true and terrible, if you stop writing about this shit, I don't see anyone getting in line to do it instead.
It was an awesome post about terrible things.
I'm not done writing, I've just freaked myself out a bit.
Make it work for you!
Quote from: Kai on November 01, 2009, 10:21:22 PM
I think I shall vomit and spend the rest of the day rocking back and forth in my bed. Goodnight.
I just joined the club. :x
Roger, I wasn't ready for that.
I don't think he was either. :x
I kind of hope I'm never in a state of mind where I am ready for something that awful.
I read this while taking a break from writing something about, well, what in comparison seems pretty god damned inconsequential.
I thought I had seen some of the most awful displays of "humanity" imaginable.
All I can think to myself now is:
"Fuck what you know about terrible."
Even the word terrible doesn't begin to...I don't know man. Fuck.
Fuck. Just fuck. It'll take me a while to compose myself after reading that, I think.
Fuck. I'm really sorry, man. You spend some time on the internet, talk some shit, think you can handle anything, but...
Fuck.
I think the worst part is that it didn't really affect me at first.
-toa,
not practiced at showing sympathy
Quote from: the other anonymous on November 05, 2009, 03:24:06 AM
-toa,
not practiced at showing sympathy
Just vomit your emotions into the keyboard. It doesn't have to be coherent.
Quote from: A giant cock mongler on November 05, 2009, 03:27:19 AM
Quote from: the other anonymous on November 05, 2009, 03:24:06 AM
-toa,
not practiced at showing sympathy
Just vomit your emotions into the keyboard. It doesn't have to be coherent.
When I do that, it tries to be funny. I'm guessing that would be bad right now.
Quote from: the other anonymous on November 05, 2009, 03:44:59 AM
Quote from: A giant cock mongler on November 05, 2009, 03:27:19 AM
Quote from: the other anonymous on November 05, 2009, 03:24:06 AM
-toa,
not practiced at showing sympathy
Just vomit your emotions into the keyboard. It doesn't have to be coherent.
When I do that, it tries to be funny. I'm guessing that would be bad right now.
Yes, it probably would.
You'd be wrong, though.
LMNO
-knows you need to wallow in Horrormirth, or else you're just another doll.
every time i start to read the title of this thread i think it reads:
"Hey Lex, Imma let you finish but...." :?
but its much less :lulz: and much more :horrormirth: :horrormirth: :horrormirth:
Quote from: LMNO on November 05, 2009, 01:04:51 PM
You'd be wrong, though.
LMNO
-knows you need to wallow in Horrormirth, or else you're just another doll.
Try as I might I'm having a hard time coming up with a mirth-part to go with this horror. Gimme time, I'm sure it'll come. The most shocking part about it for me is that it doesn't shock me in the slightest. Disgusts but not shocks. Still glad I wasn't there at the time, tho, I'm sure seeing that kinda shit in the flesh would leave a lasting impression.
Quote from: the other anonymous on November 05, 2009, 03:44:59 AM
Quote from: A giant cock mongler on November 05, 2009, 03:27:19 AM
Quote from: the other anonymous on November 05, 2009, 03:24:06 AM
-toa,
not practiced at showing sympathy
Just vomit your emotions into the keyboard. It doesn't have to be coherent.
When I do that, it tries to be funny. I'm guessing that would be bad right now.
TOA displaying
tact ??
damn
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on November 05, 2009, 01:28:21 PM
Quote from: LMNO on November 05, 2009, 01:04:51 PM
You'd be wrong, though.
LMNO
-knows you need to wallow in Horrormirth, or else you're just another doll.
Try as I might I'm having a hard time coming up with a mirth-part to go with this horror. Gimme time, I'm sure it'll come. The most shocking part about it for me is that it doesn't shock me in the slightest. Disgusts but not shocks. Still glad I wasn't there at the time, tho, I'm sure seeing that kinda shit in the flesh would leave a lasting impression.
Sadly, I'm in the same position. I'm more shocked for Roger's sake that he went through it, than that it actually happened. War lives with me in my home too much with the company I've kept the past twenty or so years. So the stories I've heard about Afghanistan and the Russians, and now the Talibs and the Afghans, and then the things people do to their children that are found in county hospitals and clinics...this just fits right in.
All too well.
Sadly.
Quote from: Cainad on November 05, 2009, 02:49:31 AM
Quote from: Kai on November 01, 2009, 10:21:22 PM
I think I shall vomit and spend the rest of the day rocking back and forth in my bed. Goodnight.
I just joined the club. :x
Roger, I wasn't ready for that.
Anyone who is ready for that needs to have their head examined. This is why, when my children asked me if there were really any monsters, I told them "Yeah there are, but they look just like you and me."
Quote from: Jenne on November 05, 2009, 06:25:35 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on November 05, 2009, 01:28:21 PM
Quote from: LMNO on November 05, 2009, 01:04:51 PM
You'd be wrong, though.
LMNO
-knows you need to wallow in Horrormirth, or else you're just another doll.
Try as I might I'm having a hard time coming up with a mirth-part to go with this horror. Gimme time, I'm sure it'll come. The most shocking part about it for me is that it doesn't shock me in the slightest. Disgusts but not shocks. Still glad I wasn't there at the time, tho, I'm sure seeing that kinda shit in the flesh would leave a lasting impression.
Sadly, I'm in the same position. I'm more shocked for Roger's sake that he went through it, than that it actually happened. War lives with me in my home too much with the company I've kept the past twenty or so years. So the stories I've heard about Afghanistan and the Russians, and now the Talibs and the Afghans, and then the things people do to their children that are found in county hospitals and clinics...this just fits right in.
All too well.
Sadly.
Also, Africa. It turns out that if you make an 11 year old a soldier, you can make them into complete sociopaths for life in just a few weeks. That's why they are used. They can be made completely merciless.
Most of The Machine™ runs on children. Hell, 99% of the people reading this are wearing something made by child slave labor in Malaysia.
I watched that movie, Blood Diamond, by myself in the movie theater when it came out. It illustrated that point about child soldiers REALLY well. Almost too well. Fuck me that was a harsh movie to watch.
Quote from: Jenne on November 05, 2009, 07:08:32 PM
I watched that movie, Blood Diamond, by myself in the movie theater when it came out. It illustrated that point about child soldiers REALLY well. Almost too well. Fuck me that was a harsh movie to watch.
I didn't, and I won't. It would be redundant information.
It's completely understandable. Many (most, all, whatever) kids are starting to develop their ethical and moral sensibilities around that time.
Tell them it's natural and normal to torture, maim, and mutilate another human being for whatever reason, and they will do it without blinking.
Quote from: LMNO on November 05, 2009, 07:14:37 PM
It's completely understandable. Many (most, all, whatever) kids are starting to develop their ethical and moral sensibilities around that time.
Tell them it's natural and normal to torture, maim, and mutilate another human being for whatever reason, and they will do it without blinking.
Precisely. Just as a baby that hasn't learned to smile during the first year of life never will smile. Fact.
It's sort of the same psychology found in street gangs in the US. These are the people raising you, their ethics become yours because they feed you and protect you from the outside world.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 05, 2009, 07:16:07 PM
Precisely. Just as a baby that hasn't learned to smile during the first year of life never will smile. Fact.
Wait, what?
Srsly?
Quote from: LMNO on November 05, 2009, 07:16:41 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 05, 2009, 07:16:07 PM
Precisely. Just as a baby that hasn't learned to smile during the first year of life never will smile. Fact.
Wait, what?
Srsly?
So I have read.
I haven't heard that, but I know a baby that is never touched dies within the first year of birth.
FORGOT TO TOUCH THE BABY. TWEET ME BACK.
Quote from: Jenne on November 05, 2009, 07:18:39 PM
I haven't heard that, but I know a baby that is never touched dies within the first year of birth.
Both of these things were discovered during studies on children being raised in state orphanages in the early part of the last century. Children shown insufficient attention (particularly tactile attention) "turned to the wall" and died.
Children who didn't learn to smile never smiled as a natural reaction for their entire lives, and some were unable to smile, period.
Websense is blocking all the relevant pages. If you'd like, I'll try to dig up the studies tonight.
Because I'm still analysing AngelTech, this all makes perfect sense in terms of the 8C model.
Quote from: LMNO on November 05, 2009, 07:30:15 PM
Because I'm still analysing AngelTech, this all makes perfect sense in terms of the 8C model.
Angel Tech?
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 05, 2009, 07:33:30 PM
Quote from: LMNO on November 05, 2009, 07:30:15 PM
Because I'm still analysing AngelTech, this all makes perfect sense in terms of the 8C model.
Angel Tech?
Literate Chaotic bookclub fread.
It's a further exploration of the 8-Circuit model -- some of it is crap, some of it is gold.
I'm getting all Sophomore Year Lit Major on it's ass, and breaking it down by chapter.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 05, 2009, 07:23:10 PM
Quote from: Jenne on November 05, 2009, 07:18:39 PM
I haven't heard that, but I know a baby that is never touched dies within the first year of birth.
Both of these things were discovered during studies on children being raised in state orphanages in the early part of the last century. Children shown insufficient attention (particularly tactile attention) "turned to the wall" and died.
Children who didn't learn to smile never smiled as a natural reaction for their entire lives, and some were unable to smile, period.
Websense is blocking all the relevant pages. If you'd like, I'll try to dig up the studies tonight.
S'ok. I am not surprised and believe you--can also do the research myself. But thanks for offering. I think a lot of child psychology stuff must've been done back then--kids didn't have the 1st world protections of the laws they do now. Anything went back then (still does, but now it's done dirty and in the dark as opposed to out in the open waiting for some hero to come and bludgeon ya to death for getting caught).
Quote from: Demolition_Squid on November 01, 2009, 09:09:36 PM
It's never an 'isolated incident', is it?
I mean. When you realize, there were these guys doing that. Then there were the people smuggling them. Then there were the people on the other end. Then there were the people using the product. Then there were the people who, in some way, these events all touched.
This is probably the most important paragraph posted on PD in 2009, and not because it references my OP.
... This makes me want to cry. Seriously.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 03, 2011, 06:39:23 PM
Quote from: Demolition_Squid on November 01, 2009, 09:09:36 PM
It's never an 'isolated incident', is it?
I mean. When you realize, there were these guys doing that. Then there were the people smuggling them. Then there were the people on the other end. Then there were the people using the product. Then there were the people who, in some way, these events all touched.
This is probably the most important paragraph posted on PD in 2009, and not because it references my OP.
Huh, I never gave it much thought. Applies to pretty much all of the Horror that news likes to package into little stories and let us forget that it is, indeed, never truly isolated. Monsters don't live in a vacuum.
Had to go back and re-read the thread... I don't think I'll ever forget the punch-in-the-gut that came with having it all spelled out.
Fuck dude. Just fucking fuck. Should not have read that now.
Jesus Christ, Roger. :mittens: on the OP part and :x on what it was.
Fuck.
Just, fuck.
ETA: I wish I had a more eloquent response to this, I really do. It's not every day you read something that reaches in and rattles your soul.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 05, 2009, 06:57:13 PM
Quote from: Cainad on November 05, 2009, 02:49:31 AM
Quote from: Kai on November 01, 2009, 10:21:22 PM
I think I shall vomit and spend the rest of the day rocking back and forth in my bed. Goodnight.
I just joined the club. :x
Roger, I wasn't ready for that.
Anyone who is ready for that needs to have their head examined. This is why, when my children asked me if there were really any monsters, I told them "Yeah there are, but they look just like you and me."
I first read this in your MSY book and it chilled me to the core.
The bolded part is an everlasting truth.
This thread is my standard for horror. Fear is one thing; I could jump if someone sneaked up behind me. Horror isn't quick and instantaneous though, its a deep down feeling that something is really really wrong. No one writes better horror than reality.
Jesus Christ...I'm so sorry. This shouldn't happen to anyone, ever.
Great piece, but it has teeth...
Thank you, Roger, for shooting those people.
I think I get the whole fear / loathing / horror thing now.
Bump because I missed this previously and it's a chilling conversation.
Have you ever been close to tragedy
Or been close to folks who have
Have you ever felt pain so powerful,
So heavy you collapse?
No? Well . . .
Never had to, knock on wood.
But I know someone who has,
Which makes me wonder if I could.
- Mighty Mighty Bosstones
It's been around 24 hours since I read this thread.
I slept, but I had terrible nightmares.
I.. don't know what to say. :cry:
Quote from: Waffle Iron on February 26, 2012, 11:04:53 AM
It's been around 24 hours since I read this thread.
I slept, but I had terrible nightmares.
I.. don't know what to say. :cry:
I know how you feel. I'd forgotten how this thread was titled, so I didn't know what it was, and went back to the OP. Recognized it after a sentence... I almost just clicked out, but I sat here and read the whole thing, the OP, and all the responses.
There is bad shit in the world, my friend, and sometimes it touches someone we know. We can't end the world's bad shit, not all of it. People are fucked up, and some are fucked up in ways that defy any rational understanding. It might be nice to be able to pretend that shit like this, or worse, is going down... But, ignoring it won't make it go away. Maybe nothing will... at least not until some idiot presses a big red button and we leave the place for the roaches.
Quote from: Luna on February 27, 2012, 12:32:14 PM
Quote from: Waffle Iron on February 26, 2012, 11:04:53 AM
It's been around 24 hours since I read this thread.
I slept, but I had terrible nightmares.
I.. don't know what to say. :cry:
I know how you feel. I'd forgotten how this thread was titled, so I didn't know what it was, and went back to the OP. Recognized it after a sentence... I almost just clicked out, but I sat here and read the whole thing, the OP, and all the responses.
There is bad shit in the world, my friend, and sometimes it touches someone we know. We can't end the world's bad shit, not all of it. People are fucked up, and some are fucked up in ways that defy any rational understanding. It might be nice to be able to pretend that shit like this, or worse, is going down... But, ignoring it won't make it go away. Maybe nothing will... at least not until some idiot presses a big red button and we leave the place for the roaches.
The amount one person can do to improve things is very limited. However, doing anything is better than doing nothing...And most times, what needs to be done is far less dramatic than what happened all those years ago. Sometimes the best thing to do is refuse to tolerate evil in your presence...For example, someone talking racist filth. Don't just ignore it and walk away disgusted, call them out on it.
It's the little things that generally matter.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 27, 2012, 05:44:19 PM
Quote from: Luna on February 27, 2012, 12:32:14 PM
Quote from: Waffle Iron on February 26, 2012, 11:04:53 AM
It's been around 24 hours since I read this thread.
I slept, but I had terrible nightmares.
I.. don't know what to say. :cry:
I know how you feel. I'd forgotten how this thread was titled, so I didn't know what it was, and went back to the OP. Recognized it after a sentence... I almost just clicked out, but I sat here and read the whole thing, the OP, and all the responses.
There is bad shit in the world, my friend, and sometimes it touches someone we know. We can't end the world's bad shit, not all of it. People are fucked up, and some are fucked up in ways that defy any rational understanding. It might be nice to be able to pretend that shit like this, or worse, is going down... But, ignoring it won't make it go away. Maybe nothing will... at least not until some idiot presses a big red button and we leave the place for the roaches.
The amount one person can do to improve things is very limited. However, doing anything is better than doing nothing...And most times, what needs to be done is far less dramatic than what happened all those years ago. Sometimes the best thing to do is refuse to tolerate evil in your presence...For example, someone talking racist filth. Don't just ignore it and walk away disgusted, call them out on it.
It's the little things that generally matter.
Truth, this.
Right now, I'm working on some of the crap that needs to be shoveled out of my own head... There's some stuff in there I don't need any more, and it's gone rancid.