http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2009/dec/09/vote-now-lie-year/
QuoteYou've heard of the Person of the Year and the Sportsman of the Year -- get ready for PolitiFact's Lie of the Year.
For our year-in-review coverage, PolitiFact soon will be announcing our Lie of the Year -- the most significant falsehood of 2009. Our staff is examining the claims we've rated False or Pants on Fire and will be choosing the one that reached all-star status and played an important role in the nation's political discourse.
We're also inviting PolitiFact readers to vote on the most important lie. Here are our eight nominees:
"When one person sneezes, it goes all the way through the aircraft."
-- Joe Biden on Thursday, April 30, 2009, in an interview on The Today Show
Preventive care "saves money."
-- Barack Obama on Wednesday, Sept. 9, 2009, in a speech to Congress
"You lie!" (in response to President Obama saying health reform would not insure illegal immigrants.)
-- Joe Wilson on Wednesday, Sept. 9, 2009, in the audience at a joint session of Congress
Seniors and the disabled "will have to stand in front of Obama's 'death panel' so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their 'level of productivity in society,' whether they are worthy of health care."
-- Sarah Palin on Friday, Aug. 7, 2009, in a message posted on Facebook
John Holdren, director of the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy, "has proposed forcing abortions and putting sterilants in the drinking water to control population."
-- Glenn Beck on Wednesday, July 22, 2009, in his TV program
An amendment to the House health reform bill "puts new restrictions on women's access to abortion coverage in the private health insurance market even when they would pay premiums with their own money."
-- Nita Lowey on Saturday, Nov. 7, 2009, in a speech on the House floor
A birth certificate shows Barack Obama was born in Kenya.
-- Orly Taitz on Sunday, Aug. 2, 2009, in an attachment to a lawsuit
Page 92 of the House health care bill "says specifically that people can't purchase private health insurance after a date certain."
-- Michele Bachmann on Friday, Oct. 30, 2009, in an interview on the Fox News Channel.
I think I'm going with the Death Panels, because it completely derailed the debate for weeks, if not still doing so.
Can we have write-in candidates? I'd vote for "Yes We Can"
Quote from: Cosmic Joker on December 10, 2009, 10:02:38 PM
Can we have write-in candidates? I'd vote for "Yes We Can"
Last year.
I vote Death Panels.
"Fair and Balanced"
The population control one was pretty bad/good.
Kenyan birth cert/falsified Hawaiian one is a good one.
I vote for the death panel one.
i may not agree with the damn bill, but I would rather argue facts than rhetoric. And like LMNO said, the damn things are still being talked about.
I want a "troop surge" in Afghanistan to be the lie of the year.
If you've been steadily building up the numbers of troops for a year, and there is no set withdrawal date (which there isn't, moaning about 2011 aside), then that's not a "surge", its an escalation.
Hey, that's a good one. You should write that one in.
Oh, did I mention there's a way to write in your own nomination? There is.
What about, "America has never waged war against another Democracy."?
How about "We're going to pass meaningful Health Care Reform".
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on December 16, 2009, 02:42:31 PM
How about "We're going to pass meaningful Health Care Reform".
:mittens:
Health care reform is neither care nor reform, discuss.
And the winner is... "Death Panels."
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2009/dec/18/politifact-lie-year-death-panels/
How the fuck is saying preventative care saves money lying?
I guess it doesn't?
It seems like it should, it certainly works for car maintenance, but there are some counterintuitive bits to healthcare costs (IE, fat people have lower cost of healthcare).
How the fuck is "Death Panels" saying preventative care saves money?
Quote from: Triple Zero on December 22, 2009, 08:25:53 AM
How the fuck is "Death Panels" saying preventative care saves money?
Huh? Who said that?
did you read the thread?
Quote from: Slanket the Destroyer on December 22, 2009, 02:03:19 AM
How the fuck is saying preventative care saves money lying?
No, I saw that, I responded to that, but he never mentioned Death Panels.
'Preventative care saves money' is one of the lie of the year poll options.
Quote from: Slanket the Destroyer on December 22, 2009, 02:03:19 AM
How the fuck is saying preventative care saves money lying?
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/sep/09/barack-obama/obama-says-preventive-care-saves-money-it-doesnt/
Quote"But when analyzing the effects of preventive care on total spending for health care, it is important to recognize that doctors do not know beforehand which patients are going to develop costly illnesses. To avert one case of acute illness, it is usually necessary to provide preventive care to many patients, most of whom would not have suffered that illness anyway. . . Preventive care can have the largest benefits relative to costs when it is targeted at people who are most likely to suffer from a particular medical problem; however, such targeting can be difficult because preventive services are generally provided to patients who have the potential to contract a given disease but have not yet shown symptoms of having it."
And a study conducted by researchers from the American Diabetes Association, American Heart Association and the American Cancer Society concluded that, while interventions to prevent cardiovascular disease would prevent many strokes and deaths, "as they are currently delivered, most of the prevention activities will substantially increase costs."
So, the consensus is that, while preventive care will almost certainly save lives, it won't reduce government spending on health care. As a result, we rate Obama's statement False.
I can understand why Obama would use that line. It does seem intuitive that prevention saves money. Because we think of the overweight people with plaque build-up in their arteries, chowing down on a Big Mac and think, "Well, we'd be better off if people like THAT took better care of themselves." And indeed, on individual levels, it would save money if people took better care of themselves.
Personally, that is where I think prevention is most effective and has the most promise. Education. Getting people to make the decisions on their own to live healthier lives.
Now, that said, prevention CAN save money in certain areas. An example would be my line of work. There are studies that show for every 1$ we spend on substance abuse prevention, we save something like $20. But that isn't just health care costs, that's also law enforcement costs, prison costs, etc., etc., Also, increased worker productivity. Healthier workers are more productive, and that could have some ripple effects. But, that can be challenging to quantify.
I'm pretty sure it's safe to say that preventative medicine in SOME areas will save money in the long run, and cost money in all areas in the short run. Prevention is usually a long-term time and money saver, and I've rarely seen it applied otherwise.
Apaprently, while it can save the individual money, the collective cost for preventative care for everyone is not necessarily a net savings.
Example:
If preventable diseases affect 20% of the population, and cost $X in total,
And if it costs $Y to apply preventative care to 100% of the population,
X is not always more than Y.
That's why I qualified it with SOME.
Yes. I was simply continuing my point for Slank.
ooohhhh then I misunderstood him.
The breast cancer screening guidelines is a very good example of this. The screenings definitely save lives by catching breast cancers early... however, in early age groups you end up with a lot more false positives than you do true positives. And of course you don't know which ones are real tumors until you do an expensive (and painful) biopsy. That's why it's better to only screen women in high risk groups.
LOL, Bayesian!
And to celebrate winning Lie of the Year, Palin does a victory lap!
http://twitter.com/SarahPalinUSA/status/6937132618
Quote...merged bill may b unrecognizable from what assumed was a done deal:R death panels back in?what's punishment 4not purchasing mandated HC?
I love how she implies Obama will mandate a death panel for people who don't buy insurance.
FUCK YEAH! BRING ON THE DEATH PANELS!
Also, as far as preventative care goes, I guess that would depend on how it was implemented. Getting people to take better care of themselves should be a relatively inexpensive thing to do.
"Uh, dude, you're fat. Stop eating this shit or you're going to die. Seriously."
Cost: FREE!