We all live in The City, and nobody lives anywhere else. Nobody remembers who built The City, and nobody really cares...What we DO know is that The City wasn't built for humans. It was built for commerce, for traffic, and we are just rats living in the walls. We need The City, because we've forgotten how we lived before it existed, much as the Anasazi forgot how to live as nomads once they settled down. Their fate was awful, and if we're not careful, what happened to them will happen to us.
This is a very real concern, because The City is breaking down. All across the country, bridges and roads are decaying, while we fritter our resources away on war and hopelessly corrupt banks and political institutions. As the systems begin to fail, we wring our hands for a bit, then we go back to watching politicians and celebrities dance for us. We don't fix things, because we don't know HOW. Sure, we have the engineering skill, but we've forgotten how to make The Machine function.
We are cargo cultists. Look it up.
The sad fact is that our culture is entering its baroque stage. Instead of infrastructure and innovation, we spend all of our efforts to obtain toys and diversions. When cultures enter a baroque stage, there are only two ways out: An influx of ideas and innovation from an outside source, or the culture enters its terminal stage. Since the world has become a monoculture, the first option is off the table...So down the tubes we go.
Sound depressing? Well, life sucks, wear a hat. A little hideous truth is in order, and I won't always be here to tell it to you, so you're going to have to learn to see these things for yourself. You can't fix a problem til you've identified it, and you can't identify it unless you LOOK at it, and SEE IT FOR WHAT IT REALLY IS. You have to learn to cast off your preconceptions and biases and SEE THE TRUTH, no matter how painful that truth is.
I've had to get used to an ugly truth or two, and there's no sense in looking away. My prognosis is not good, and I - like The City - am breaking down, bit by bit. The truth is that I'm ill as hell, and I may or may not be able to make some commitments I've made, though if I fail to, it will be for a damn good reason.
Sorry to lay all this on you.
Or Kill Me.
I do not know what to say about ANY of this.
~~~Payne: Torn.
I think, for me at least, its not so much "I don't know how" to fix the Machine, as I have no desire to fix the Machine.
Maybe it will be easier for humans to remember they are human once the City is bankrupt and the Machine is broken beyond repaired. After all, the Baroque period gave us some of the most fantastic discoveries in centuries. Some of the key events then set everything up for the Next Incarnation.
Before the Baroque period, the Church mostly ran everything. After the Baroque period, science had gotten a good toe hold in and has been ripping myth to bits since then. Before then, Kings were appointed by God... by the end, people had learned how to dethrone Kings.
Maybe the city has to be destroyed occasionally, in order to save the rats?
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 17, 2009, 09:12:55 PM
I've had to get used to an ugly truth or two, and there's no sense in looking away. My prognosis is not good, and I - like The City - am breaking down, bit by bit. The truth is that I'm ill as hell, and I may or may not be able to make some commitments I've made, though if I fail to, it will be for a damn good reason.
Sorry to lay all this on you.
Or Kill Me.
Roger? I don't like the sound of that...... What has happened?
I'm with Rat. The machine has had it's heyday, way back when. The good old days they called it and back then, when it was well oiled and fueled and maintained in tippermost toppermost condition it was glorious! The good old days they call it and some of the old ones can still remember it wistfully as they look around, through fading eyes at a world gone all to shit.
I don't call it the good old days. I wasn't even around then. I grew up after they'd ran out of clean fuel. After the rats had eaten all the string that held the shit together. After the cogs had gone rusty and been replaced with plastic shit that seizes up every couple of hours but it's cheap and that's more important than any fucking quality of life. No I don't call it the good old days, I call it the past and, like it or not, none of us are equipped to live there even if we could resurrect this dying social organism from it's emphysemic, syphilitic death throes.
I'm a product of this dying machine. More so even than the biological gunk that my parents contributed. I've learned to breathe it's filth and feed upon it's decay. And I want to see it dead. It's the logical conclusion, it's where it's all headed and I hope I can stay alive just long enough to see it roll over and choke on it's last wheezing breath.
I don't know what comes next, like everyone else I can only speculate. Whatever it is I won't be here. Such is life.
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on December 17, 2009, 10:23:30 PM
I'm with Rat. The machine has had it's heyday, way back when. The good old days they called it and back then, when it was well oiled and fueled and maintained in tippermost toppermost condition it was glorious! The good old days they call it and some of the old ones can still remember it wistfully as they look around, through fading eyes at a world gone all to shit.
I don't call it the good old days. I wasn't even around then. I grew up after they'd ran out of clean fuel. After the rats had eaten all the string that held the shit together. After the cogs had gone rusty and been replaced with plastic shit that seizes up every couple of hours but it's cheap and that's more important than any fucking quality of life. No I don't call it the good old days, I call it the past and, like it or not, none of us are equipped to live there even if we could resurrect this dying social organism from it's emphysemic, syphilitic death throes.
I'm a product of this dying machine. More so even than the biological gunk that my parents contributed. I've learned to breathe it's filth and feed upon it's decay. And I want to see it dead. It's the logical conclusion, it's where it's all headed and I hope I can stay alive just long enough to see it roll over and choke on it's last wheezing breath.
I don't know what comes next, like everyone else I can only speculate. Whatever it is I won't be here. Such is life.
The "good old days" is primarily a product of pure nostalgia. You'll be talking about the good old days someday. If you still have your tongue then.
Also, you and Rat seem to have missed the part where
the system may become unable to preserve much of its history or advances or arts. The Renaissance got off the ground because contact with the Muslim empire basically reloaded the knowledge from Rome and before back into the Machine. Analysis of our projected scenario includes as a serious question, "will we still be in the steel age afterwards?"
The Machine cannot be reconditioned, and it can still lash out at attempts to replace it or patch it. Wanna build a working society, today? You risk mortgaging the vision while getting sponsorship and venture capital, or being pegged as having the wrong values, and the nice men in white or blue or cammo will stop you.
Quote from: Khara on December 17, 2009, 10:10:31 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 17, 2009, 09:12:55 PM
I've had to get used to an ugly truth or two, and there's no sense in looking away. My prognosis is not good, and I - like The City - am breaking down, bit by bit. The truth is that I'm ill as hell, and I may or may not be able to make some commitments I've made, though if I fail to, it will be for a damn good reason.
Sorry to lay all this on you.
Or Kill Me.
Roger? I don't like the sound of that...... What has happened?
Seconded?
He had a bad reaction to some of his medication and thought it was his heart... he actually doesn't remember most of what he posted today. He's spending the night in the hospital but took his laptop, so hopefully we'll be hearing from him soon.
Ill is all. Long term heart problem, short term mixed medications causing problems. Am now under "observation" for the night.
Interesting note: a few years ago, you couldn't bring a cell phone into a hospital. Now you can run a laptop, and they even provide the comcast.
It appears that I have made it through another doctor's incompetence with all my bits still attached and functional. It seems that the 4 different medications I was taking (2 normal ones, 2 for the bronchitis) mix into some horrible hellish toxic death ball. But I made it, and you are all stuck with me for at least the immediate future.
Also, apparently Khara and I spoke for a while, while I foolishly drove myself to the hospital. I don't remember that, but my cell log indicates that I was on the phone with her for some time. Also, I spoke to Nigel. I do remember that. Thanks to both of you for keeping me conscious on the drive. Next time, I shall demonstrate a minimum level of intelligence and call a damn ambulance.
Quote from: The Right Reverend Nigel on December 18, 2009, 12:39:30 AM
He had a bad reaction to some of his medication and thought it was his heart... he actually doesn't remember most of what he posted today. He's spending the night in the hospital but took his laptop, so hopefully we'll be hearing from him soon.
SPEAK OF THE DINGBAT, AND HE SHALL ARRIVE.
When I wrote the above, I vaguely remember thinking I was a goner, and I was trying to communicate something I felt was important, but couldn't get the words right. Now I can't remember what it was I was trying to say.
Now I know how that spag who wrote Xanadu felt. :tgrr:
You should demand a REALLY fucked up doctor if they keep trying to kill you this way. Got to be a worthwhile exit, not some bungled prescriptioning.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 18, 2009, 12:43:03 AM
When I wrote the above, I vaguely remember thinking I was a goner, and I was trying to communicate something I felt was important, but couldn't get the words right. Now I can't remember what it was I was trying to say.
Now I know how that spag who wrote Xanadu felt. :tgrr:
I think I kinda got it...
Quote from: Payne on December 17, 2009, 09:20:18 PM
I do not know what to say about ANY of this.
~~~Payne: Torn.
Quote from: Payne on December 18, 2009, 12:43:30 AM
You should demand a REALLY fucked up doctor if they keep trying to kill you this way. Got to be a worthwhile exit, not some bungled prescriptioning.
Troof. I want my head amputated, if I have to go by piss-poor doctoring. I shall ask the nurse if this can be arranged.
GAH.
Still feels like someone's running around in my guts with spiked boots on.
FUCK.
:crankey:
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 18, 2009, 12:43:03 AM
When I wrote the above, I vaguely remember thinking I was a goner, and I was trying to communicate something I felt was important, but couldn't get the words right. Now I can't remember what it was I was trying to say.
Now I know how that spag who wrote Xanadu felt. :tgrr:
You wrote some really good shit, though.
If that's any consolation.
dddddddddddyjjjyyyddddddddddddd bb. .d
Monkey sends his regards.
Quote from: The Right Reverend Nigel on December 18, 2009, 12:50:03 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 18, 2009, 12:43:03 AM
When I wrote the above, I vaguely remember thinking I was a goner, and I was trying to communicate something I felt was important, but couldn't get the words right. Now I can't remember what it was I was trying to say.
Now I know how that spag who wrote Xanadu felt. :tgrr:
You wrote some really good shit, though.
If that's any consolation.
Yeah, I kinda like the stuff I did in the Portland thread.
Quote from: Mistress Freeky on December 18, 2009, 12:52:17 AM
dddddddddddyjjjyyyddddddddddddd bb. .d
Monkey sends his regards.
I expect to be out in time to take you for those errands, but I don't think I'm going to coffee night. I need some rest.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 18, 2009, 12:56:09 AM
Quote from: Mistress Freeky on December 18, 2009, 12:52:17 AM
dddddddddddyjjjyyyddddddddddddd bb. .d
Monkey sends his regards.
I expect to be out in time to take you for those errands, but I don't think I'm going to coffee night. I need some rest.
No worries.
Roger, may I suggest in future one of these fine contraptions?
(http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb163/wompcabal/RogBulance.jpg)
Quote from: Payne on December 18, 2009, 01:06:22 AM
Roger, may I suggest in future one of these fine contraptions?
(http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb163/wompcabal/RogBulance.jpg)
Yeah. Hopefully I get those two amazingly ghoulish EMTs I got last time. Fucking guys were hilarious.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 18, 2009, 12:55:28 AM
Quote from: The Right Reverend Nigel on December 18, 2009, 12:50:03 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 18, 2009, 12:43:03 AM
When I wrote the above, I vaguely remember thinking I was a goner, and I was trying to communicate something I felt was important, but couldn't get the words right. Now I can't remember what it was I was trying to say.
Now I know how that spag who wrote Xanadu felt. :tgrr:
You wrote some really good shit, though.
If that's any consolation.
Yeah, I kinda like the stuff I did in the Portland thread.
That was god damn excellent.
Wow, I'm really glad you're still alive! The OP worried me something awful.
OP didn't worry me at all. I figured Rog was just waxing morbid. Happens occasionally when you get to our age - death is close enough you start to actually see it, now and again, standing just up ahead.
Stupid fucking me! Glad to hear you're still in one piece big guy
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 18, 2009, 12:55:28 AM
Quote from: The Right Reverend Nigel on December 18, 2009, 12:50:03 AMQuote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 18, 2009, 12:43:03 AMWhen I wrote the above, I vaguely remember thinking I was a goner, and I was trying to communicate something I felt was important, but couldn't get the words right. Now I can't remember what it was I was trying to say.
Now I know how that spag who wrote Xanadu felt. :tgrr:
You wrote some really good shit, though.
If that's any consolation.
Yeah, I kinda like the stuff I did in the Portland thread.
I was wondering what was up with that. Usually when you're all crazed out on something you do remember what happened, even with the cactus, right? I mean what's the use of it otherwise, anyway. Life's too short to go about doing crazy things that you do not remember afterwards.
On the bright side, you got to surprise yourself with one of your own writings! And it was a good one! Unlike most people's "I can't remember I wrote that"-posts :)
And fortunately you have a couple of good friends that can fill you in on some details.
Glad you're still there. Any idea on when or if you're gonna get really better again? I mean currently it seems to go up and down and with loads of medications, but is there an estimate on some future period or relatively stable "doing pretty okay"? If you know what I mean, as I understand it might never be 100% again?
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on December 18, 2009, 10:03:10 AM
OP didn't worry me at all. I figured Rog was just waxing morbid. Happens occasionally when you get to our age - death is close enough you start to actually see it, now and again, standing just up ahead.
Stupid fucking me! Glad to hear you're still in one piece big guy
Yeah, well, it was a strange day, and I died. But I have been reborn. Which, IIRC, means I get birthday haggis. Hand it over.
Quote from: Triple Zero on December 18, 2009, 01:01:06 PM
Glad you're still there. Any idea on when or if you're gonna get really better again? I mean currently it seems to go up and down and with loads of medications, but is there an estimate on some future period or relatively stable "doing pretty okay"? If you know what I mean, as I understand it might never be 100% again?
If I am lucky, I will die an old man, hated by the neighbors and my ungrateful descendents. That's very possible, provided I can pay for the pills that keep my blood where it belongs, and a little good luck.
The problem is that the pills I use for that conflicted with the pills I use to sleep. This has been an ongoing problem, but really got out of control when I thought I had bronchitis (turned out to be Klonopin side effects), and they gave me MORE drugs that conflicted with my other drugs.
This wasn't a case of my original problem biting me. This was basically a case of poisoning. Fortunately, I am a side of beef, and can absorb a huge amount of toxins without dying. Didn't do me any good, though. Yesterday wasn't as bad as last April, but it came in a damn close second.
TGRR,
Grabbin' pills.
Situation: FUCk.
Writing: FUCK!
Nothing else is cooperating word / sentiment wise yet, but glad to hear you're stil ambulatory!
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 18, 2009, 12:40:16 AM
Ill is all. Long term heart problem, short term mixed medications causing problems. Am now under "observation" for the night.
Interesting note: a few years ago, you couldn't bring a cell phone into a hospital. Now you can run a laptop, and they even provide the comcast.
It appears that I have made it through another doctor's incompetence with all my bits still attached and functional. It seems that the 4 different medications I was taking (2 normal ones, 2 for the bronchitis) mix into some horrible hellish toxic death ball. But I made it, and you are all stuck with me for at least the immediate future.
Also, apparently Khara and I spoke for a while, while I foolishly drove myself to the hospital. I don't remember that, but my cell log indicates that I was on the phone with her for some time. Also, I spoke to Nigel. I do remember that. Thanks to both of you for keeping me conscious on the drive. Next time, I shall demonstrate a minimum level of intelligence and call a damn ambulance.
No worries, that's what we're here for!!! :wink:
I'm really glad you are feeling better and that everything is ok!!!
You have to remind me, I want to google that guy about the constitution.
Holy fuck TGRR, glad to hear you survived that! Mixed meds are nothing to play with...
Quote from: Khara on December 18, 2009, 02:43:03 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 18, 2009, 12:40:16 AM
Ill is all. Long term heart problem, short term mixed medications causing problems. Am now under "observation" for the night.
Interesting note: a few years ago, you couldn't bring a cell phone into a hospital. Now you can run a laptop, and they even provide the comcast.
It appears that I have made it through another doctor's incompetence with all my bits still attached and functional. It seems that the 4 different medications I was taking (2 normal ones, 2 for the bronchitis) mix into some horrible hellish toxic death ball. But I made it, and you are all stuck with me for at least the immediate future.
Also, apparently Khara and I spoke for a while, while I foolishly drove myself to the hospital. I don't remember that, but my cell log indicates that I was on the phone with her for some time. Also, I spoke to Nigel. I do remember that. Thanks to both of you for keeping me conscious on the drive. Next time, I shall demonstrate a minimum level of intelligence and call a damn ambulance.
No worries, that's what we're here for!!! :wink:
I'm really glad you are feeling better and that everything is ok!!!
You have to remind me, I want to google that guy about the constitution.
Lysander Spooner "No Treason".
Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on December 18, 2009, 03:27:52 PM
Holy fuck TGRR, glad to hear you survived that! Mixed meds are nothing to play with...
Fucking lazy ass doctor. :tgrr:
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 18, 2009, 04:18:55 PM
Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on December 18, 2009, 03:27:52 PM
Holy fuck TGRR, glad to hear you survived that! Mixed meds are nothing to play with...
Fucking lazy ass doctor. :tgrr:
So is that it? Because this doctor needs sued, or written up, or something, if he didn't look up contraindications. Shit, the PHARMACIST should be written up. Pharmacists often CATCH the contraindications someone else misses.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 18, 2009, 04:18:32 PM
Quote from: Khara on December 18, 2009, 02:43:03 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 18, 2009, 12:40:16 AM
Ill is all. Long term heart problem, short term mixed medications causing problems. Am now under "observation" for the night.
Interesting note: a few years ago, you couldn't bring a cell phone into a hospital. Now you can run a laptop, and they even provide the comcast.
It appears that I have made it through another doctor's incompetence with all my bits still attached and functional. It seems that the 4 different medications I was taking (2 normal ones, 2 for the bronchitis) mix into some horrible hellish toxic death ball. But I made it, and you are all stuck with me for at least the immediate future.
Also, apparently Khara and I spoke for a while, while I foolishly drove myself to the hospital. I don't remember that, but my cell log indicates that I was on the phone with her for some time. Also, I spoke to Nigel. I do remember that. Thanks to both of you for keeping me conscious on the drive. Next time, I shall demonstrate a minimum level of intelligence and call a damn ambulance.
No worries, that's what we're here for!!! :wink:
I'm really glad you are feeling better and that everything is ok!!!
You have to remind me, I want to google that guy about the constitution.
Lysander Spooner "No Treason".
http://www.lysanderspooner.org/
The City is not FOR people. Not like a politician is not "For" a certain cause (in ony the vaugest, prono fluffling, shitconing way), the city was made with the intention of, but developed beyond being a place people should ever be. At best, people are the blood to a city. The gore that pumps in an engorges it during the day, increasiing the frenetic activity, and leaving interesting secretions. At night, they mostly leave, but some remain, and everything hums along in a self maintaining cycle of restoration and maintenance until it all swell with activity again. Like some sort of solar sex ritual, it all rises to arousal and compeltion with the sun, then languidly deflates at night, contracting it's people back out, heaving and spasming with end of day crises and traffic jams.
For all the hard corners, toxic fumes, unrelenting rush and crush of bodies, people lee returnign to this icon of aceivement, this massed creation and work in through it despite it's flaws. Every day they rush in to play their infentessimal part on the massed altar.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 18, 2009, 01:18:05 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on December 18, 2009, 10:03:10 AM
OP didn't worry me at all. I figured Rog was just waxing morbid. Happens occasionally when you get to our age - death is close enough you start to actually see it, now and again, standing just up ahead.
Stupid fucking me! Glad to hear you're still in one piece big guy
Yeah, well, it was a strange day, and I died. But I have been reborn. Which, IIRC, means I get birthday haggis. Hand it over.
Just scrape some mud off your boots and deep fry it. Tastes the same, saves me the postage.
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on December 18, 2009, 05:00:29 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 18, 2009, 01:18:05 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on December 18, 2009, 10:03:10 AM
OP didn't worry me at all. I figured Rog was just waxing morbid. Happens occasionally when you get to our age - death is close enough you start to actually see it, now and again, standing just up ahead.
Stupid fucking me! Glad to hear you're still in one piece big guy
Yeah, well, it was a strange day, and I died. But I have been reborn. Which, IIRC, means I get birthday haggis. Hand it over.
Just scrape some mud off your boots and deep fry it. Tastes the same, saves me the postage.
We don't have mud. I live in a desert, like all proper Holy Men.
The City is done. Its too late for it to be fixed, because the people that live there have already forgotten what it takes to keep it going. Kind of like when Cortes found the Aztecs, and they had all these great pyramids built by their ancestors, but the Aztecs they found didn't even have the wheel yet(some say this is because they just didnt have the livestock to pull carts, but I just think its because of the same reason the general pop. is pretty out of it now. TOO MUCH FREE TIME).
Too much free time. When you dont have to spend 16 hours a day worrying about feeding yourself and your family, you have a lot more free time to sit around and fuck shit up. Just think about what happens when you are unemployed. You think, "Oh, Ill get to work on all the little projects I NEVER get to work on,' but that never really happens.
I hate to be downer, but I have to agree with Roger on this one. I think its pretty much hopeless. I mean, if someone outright stealing an election 8 years ago isn't going to cause a peep(people are STILL protesting and getting killed in Iran over their last election), then I doubt ANYTHING will 'wake the people up'.
Roger, I dont know what ails you, but if its a lung/respitory disease, then the high desert is probably the best place for you. But Im sure you already knew that. Although I dont know what you do for work, you mentioned wearing a resperator, I just hope this isn't a side-affect from being a working stiff. Also, have you thought about Marijuana? I know that that such an ultra-hippy dippy shithead thing to say, but, it is a pretty fucking amazing plant. It could help relieve some of the pain and act as an expectorant if you have bronchitis/lung fluid. I have about as much medical knowledge as it takes to open a bottle of Advil when I geta headache, so, theres a good chance Im full of shit when I say that, though.
Quote from: Hangshai on December 19, 2009, 05:51:16 AM
The City is done. Its too late for it to be fixed, because the people that live there have already forgotten what it takes to keep it going. Kind of like when Cortes found the Aztecs, and they had all these great pyramids built by their ancestors, but the Aztecs they found didn't even have the wheel yet(some say this is because they just didnt have the livestock to pull carts, but I just think its because of the same reason the general pop. is pretty out of it now. TOO MUCH FREE TIME).
Too much free time. When you dont have to spend 16 hours a day worrying about feeding yourself and your family, you have a lot more free time to sit around and fuck shit up. Just think about what happens when you are unemployed. You think, "Oh, Ill get to work on all the little projects I NEVER get to work on,' but that never really happens.
I hate to be downer, but I have to agree with Roger on this one. I think its pretty much hopeless. I mean, if someone outright stealing an election 8 years ago isn't going to cause a peep(people are STILL protesting and getting killed in Iran over their last election), then I doubt ANYTHING will 'wake the people up'.
Roger, I dont know what ails you, but if its a lung/respitory disease, then the high desert is probably the best place for you. But Im sure you already knew that. Although I dont know what you do for work, you mentioned wearing a resperator, I just hope this isn't a side-affect from being a working stiff. Also, have you thought about Marijuana? I know that that such an ultra-hippy dippy shithead thing to say, but, it is a pretty fucking amazing plant. It could help relieve some of the pain and act as an expectorant if you have bronchitis/lung fluid. I have about as much medical knowledge as it takes to open a bottle of Advil when I geta headache, so, theres a good chance Im full of shit when I say that, though.
1. My job piss tests. My job pays me an enormous sack of cash on a regular basis, and I buy STUFF with it. I like stuff.
2. If I get high, I stop hating everyone. Then the machine breaks down and it never stops raining. Trust me on this, the last time I got high, Chicago flooded. '96, I believe.
3. My problems are two-fold: Blood issues and insomnia. Not "I only got two hours of sleep last night", but "I haven't slept in 60 hours and I just remembered I'm the Tucson Strangler". Pot would probably solve the latter, but would almost certainly kill me due to the former.