http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_california_police_cameras
Doing a test to see how effective they are in California first. I'm guessing if the test goes well and they can justify the cost they might put 'em into active use around the country.
I already don't like cameras but this takes it to the next, albeit logical, step.
Sometimes I wish I hadn't read 1984, fuckin' book made me aware of security cameras and why I shouldn't like them. :argh!:
But yeah, what are your guys' thoughts on cameras on the officers, proper?
looks like a good thing to me, especcially in California. Keep he police from assaulting people.
I think this is a good idea. It will keep cops in line and if someone is innocent these cameras might prevent them from being unjustly prosecuted.
You're being watched, all the time. This will protect you.
Please go stand by the stairs.
So you'd rather the actions of our police go unmonitored and continue to rely heavily on their say-so of what occurred?
Quote from: Slanket the Destroyer on December 20, 2009, 09:21:15 PM
So you'd rather the actions of our police go unmonitored and continue to rely heavily on their say-so of what occurred?
There's always a good reason for more surveillance. It's for the children, or to watch the watchmen, or whatever.
The cops have ratcams on their dashboards already.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 20, 2009, 09:23:37 PM
Quote from: Slanket the Destroyer on December 20, 2009, 09:21:15 PM
So you'd rather the actions of our police go unmonitored and continue to rely heavily on their say-so of what occurred?
There's always a good reason for more surveillance. It's for the children, or to watch the watchmen, or whatever.
The cops have ratcams on their dashboards already.
I was just thinking that, actually. Most police brutality happens right near their cars anyway, doesn't it? I mean, I have no real idea of how it all happens but that's the impression I've gotten. Of course it's entirely probable that I'm way off base, there.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 20, 2009, 09:23:37 PM
Quote from: Slanket the Destroyer on December 20, 2009, 09:21:15 PM
So you'd rather the actions of our police go unmonitored and continue to rely heavily on their say-so of what occurred?
There's always a good reason for more surveillance. It's for the children, or to watch the watchmen, or whatever.
The cops have ratcams on their dashboards already.
Sure, but they don't tape what the cop does. They tape whatever is in front of the car.
That said, without cameras recording police Rodney King would just be some lyin negro fella what had it comin to him as far as the public would have been concerned. Numerous other cases of police abusing their authority and using excessive force never would have come to light had it not been for the dashboard cam. Additionally, if someone lies about a good cop being abusive this camera would exonerate them. Hell, I keep something that can record video with me at all times just in case.
I guess I'll be by the stairs if anyone needs me.
Quote from: Slanket the Destroyer on December 20, 2009, 09:31:11 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 20, 2009, 09:23:37 PM
Quote from: Slanket the Destroyer on December 20, 2009, 09:21:15 PM
So you'd rather the actions of our police go unmonitored and continue to rely heavily on their say-so of what occurred?
There's always a good reason for more surveillance. It's for the children, or to watch the watchmen, or whatever.
The cops have ratcams on their dashboards already.
Sure, but they don't tape what the cop does. They tape whatever is in front of the car.
That said, without cameras recording police Rodney King would just be some lyin negro fella what had it comin to him as far as the public would have been concerned. Numerous other cases of police abusing their authority and using excessive force never would have come to light had it not been for the dashboard cam. Additionally, if someone lies about a good cop being abusive this camera would exonerate them. Hell, I keep something that can record video with me at all times just in case.
I guess I'll be by the stairs if anyone needs me.
So we make the cops wear a ratcam. They're small enough, now.
the dashmounted cameras have been used to show people being abused by cops....
you haven't seen any of the wonderful youtubes of it? intimidation, tasers and beatings, oh my...
however, i wonder how often the video is used in a selective and/or edited way to make what would, in full context, be seen as police abuse of authority instead appear that the victim is totally at fault.
I think these would be a great thing if the feeds are broadcasted so the copwatcher groups can keep tabs...
Quote from: Iptuous on December 20, 2009, 10:04:48 PM
the dashmounted cameras have been used to show people being abused by cops....
you haven't seen any of the wonderful youtubes of it? intimidation, tasers and beatings, oh my...
however, i wonder how often the video is used in a selective and/or edited way to make what would, in full context, be seen as police abuse of authority instead appear that the victim is totally at fault.
I think these would be a great thing if the feeds are broadcasted so the copwatcher groups can keep tabs...
We have highway cams in Tucson. I can log in and watch them anytime I want. Our scanners are also on the internet.
I always thought cameras were around everywhere anyway.
I really don't care either way-besides the fact that it is an ivasion of my privacy, technically I am in a public space and do not won the light that reflects off of me.
However-It is really fucked up that we need to put them up to 'monitor' the cops and citizens.
Fuck, what the hell happened and is happening to humanity.
:argh!:
Cameras on every corner are one thing, cameras observing the people given lots of authority are another.
Speaking of cameras on every corner, I heard a story about a city installing speed traps and then uninstalling them because they worked too well. Everyone stopped speeding and the city was no longer able to obtain any revenue from speeding tickets.
Its conflicting though hey.
Everyones just fucked, so whats one more thing going to do?
When will it ever cancel each other
Quote from: NotPublished on December 21, 2009, 02:16:41 AM
Its conflicting though hey.
Everyones just fucked, so whats one more thing going to do?
When will it ever cancel each other
wut
The ideas here are conflicting, while I do agree that Police themselves should be watched. But are they so damn untrust worthy that they have to in the first place? I suppose that doesn't really need answering.
But will this start new trends?
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 21, 2009, 02:17:12 AM
Quote from: NotPublished on December 21, 2009, 02:16:41 AM
Its conflicting though hey.
Everyones just fucked, so whats one more thing going to do?
When will it ever cancel each other
wut
you know, when are things going to magically turn out fine, in the end?
cause, the world's been getting crazier and crazier and creepier, but it's just a phase right?
i mean, what goes down must at some point go up right?
we can stop any moment we want to right?
at some point, people will just get tired of this mess, think "well that was interesting" and then everything goes back to normal right?
after all, we can't possibly just keep going deeper and deeper forever and digging further and in more twisted ways
there's gotta be a bottom to this rabbithole, and that's when everything will start getting better again.
Quote from: Triple Zero on December 21, 2009, 08:24:23 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 21, 2009, 02:17:12 AM
Quote from: NotPublished on December 21, 2009, 02:16:41 AM
Its conflicting though hey.
Everyones just fucked, so whats one more thing going to do?
When will it ever cancel each other
wut
you know, when are things going to magically turn out fine, in the end?
cause, the world's been getting crazier and crazier and creepier, but it's just a phase right?
i mean, what goes down must at some point go up right?
we can stop any moment we want to right?
at some point, people will just get tired of this mess, think "well that was interesting" and then everything goes back to normal right?
after all, we can't possibly just keep going deeper and deeper forever and digging further and in more twisted ways
there's gotta be a bottom to this rabbithole, and that's when everything will start getting better again.
... can't we just blow up the world already ? =/
I don't even know what sarcasm is anymore :O Reboot!
... everyones still fucked. I am just slightly more than the rest.
Quote from: Triple Zero on December 21, 2009, 08:24:23 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 21, 2009, 02:17:12 AM
Quote from: NotPublished on December 21, 2009, 02:16:41 AM
Its conflicting though hey.
Everyones just fucked, so whats one more thing going to do?
When will it ever cancel each other
wut
you know, when are things going to magically turn out fine, in the end?
cause, the world's been getting crazier and crazier and creepier, but it's just a phase right?
i mean, what goes down must at some point go up right?
we can stop any moment we want to right?
at some point, people will just get tired of this mess, think "well that was interesting" and then everything goes back to normal right?
after all, we can't possibly just keep going deeper and deeper forever and digging further and in more twisted ways
there's gotta be a bottom to this rabbithole, and that's when everything will start getting better again.
In a word - "no" :lulz:
Quote from: Slanket the Destroyer on December 20, 2009, 09:06:01 PM
I think this is a good idea. It will keep cops in line and if someone is innocent these cameras might prevent them from being unjustly prosecuted.
translation:
Our rights are being stepped on! We demand less rights!
Things that made me go "Hmmm" from the article:
QuoteSan Jose is the first major American city to try the devices, made by Arizona-based Taser International. Taser is paying for the experiment, but the price could be high if San Jose equips all 1,400 officers.
Each kit costs $1,700, plus a $99 per officer monthly fee. That's $4 million department-wide each year.
So, cherchez la femme, as the French used to say. Or, in this case--find the source of the $ that's backing this operation. Taser International has heard that "excessive force" is being used by San Jose police. So they back their new device being used as a "tryout"...so that the cops are exonerated and can go on using their tasers.
...that's sorta how I read THAT. I could be wrong.
It seems like constant recording / surveillance would open the individual judgements and calls each officer makes up to some truly corproate levels of scrutiny, second guessing, and contradiction.
Also, I can't see ANY union being happy about this.
When Big Brother is watching you your only recourse is to watch Big Brother right the hell back.
They are invading my privacy - I'll invade theirs. I'm getting myself a headcam for great justice.
Lets see them try to pull prevention of terrorism act cos I'm recording things they don't want me to record. Like lets literally see that shit, on camera - mine and theirs.
I predict shitstorm. I predict - try and find the footage assholes - it went straight on the internets :lulz:
I always said when the filth get to carry guns - that's when I'm getting a gun. Same goes for cameras.
This is not something new.
Y'all know that right?
I mean there are video cameras everywhere. They've shown where they can follow someone across town just by the various survellience cameras in parking lots and red light cameras. Not to mention the traffic cameras. Vehicle mounted cameras.
Provided we have access to the live feed, I have no problem with cameras all over public space.
When I'm talking to a cop, what I'm afraid of is that he can spin the police report any way he'd like. If I don't trust his authority, there's no other authority nearby to which I can appeal.
My buddy is a cop and it sounds like there is definitely a lot of shenanigans which pass because the cop's word is always more trusted than the accused.
My buddy also reminds me that civilians have power over the cops too. As a cop, you can lose your career if one guy decides to take you down with a well spun lie. Or if they catch you doing something fucked up, it's your whole job on the line. I see these cameras as being something which keeps cops in check. The panopticon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panopticon) finally turned on the jailers rather than the jailed!
I think the ++cameras in the UK have proved fairly useless, right? They are finding that putting a camera on every corner had NO EFFECT on crime?
Jenne makes a great point though. Cui bono?
Quote from: Slanket the Destroyer on December 21, 2009, 02:15:09 AM
Cameras on every corner are one thing, cameras observing the people given lots of authority are another.
Speaking of cameras on every corner, I heard a story about a city installing speed traps and then uninstalling them because they worked too well. Everyone stopped speeding and the city was no longer able to obtain any revenue from speeding tickets.
that's crazy! Any idea what city that was?
I was just watching a talk by Bruce Schneier about privacy. Anyone who's really interested in this stuff,
the reasons:he says lack of privacy is not because of malice--it's just because Data is a by-product of information society, he makes a good case about it, and I think he's right
as well as the ramifications: storage is as good as free, computation is as good as free, it's no longer "follow that car", it's "follow every car", it's cheaper to just save everything and surveil things in hindsight than figuring out what's useful to save!
I'm just 16 minutes in, and it's highly relevant to this thread, I dunno where he's going after that, but if you can spare the 16 minutes (you can even skip the first 4-5, he's summarizing all sorts of stuff that gets saved, I think everybody knows that by now).
about usefulness we instated mandatory ID about 3 years ago, and were promised an evaluation. the evaluation is there--they say it's successfull, because a lot more arrests have been made, it costs 50 euros if you don't carry ID, jokingly called the "fine doubler", police like it of course (see also Schneier's talk), but the bottom line is: Has it made an impact on crime? And the answer in the report is no. They still say it's successfull though.
Quote from: Slanket the Destroyer on December 21, 2009, 02:15:09 AM
Cameras on every corner are one thing, cameras observing the people given lots of authority are another.
Speaking of cameras on every corner, I heard a story about a city installing speed traps and then uninstalling them because they worked too well. Everyone stopped speeding and the city was no longer able to obtain any revenue from speeding tickets.
Anybody else laughing at the fact that, rather than seek to eliminate it, cities absolutely
depend on crime in order to stay solvent?
Quick thought: how will this affect day to day policing?
Will this lead to a certain degree of acting, or speaking for the sake of the camera or the eventualy viewer?
Quote from: Richter on December 21, 2009, 06:23:59 PM
Quick thought: how will this affect day to day policing?
Will this lead to a certain degree of acting, or speaking for the sake of the camera or the eventualy viewer?
I can't imagine that it
wouldn't to some degree...
hell, i act differently if i think there is a chance that i might be on camera. but then i'm paranoid.
I sometimes think an apology for rude thoughts on the off chance that the subject of the thought is able to read minds. Then i usually think about chastising them for being so rude as to read my mind without acknowledging it...
Perhaps someone has done a study on behavioral change due to dashboard cams?
It obviously hasn't stopped all abuses, but i would be surprised if it didn't affect behavior to
some degree...
Quote from: Iptuous on December 21, 2009, 06:53:30 PM
Quote from: Richter on December 21, 2009, 06:23:59 PM
Quick thought: how will this affect day to day policing?
Will this lead to a certain degree of acting, or speaking for the sake of the camera or the eventualy viewer?
I can't imagine that it wouldn't to some degree...
hell, i act differently if i think there is a chance that i might be on camera. but then i'm paranoid.
I sometimes think an apology for rude thoughts on the off chance that the subject of the thought is able to read minds. Then i usually think about chastising them for being so rude as to read my mind without acknowledging it...
Perhaps someone has done a study on behavioral change due to dashboard cams?
It obviously hasn't stopped all abuses, but i would be surprised if it didn't affect behavior to some degree...
W T F?
oh, right. like you never do that....
:roll:
also, sometimes cops are too dumb to realize that they are incriminating themselves for obviously bad behavior even on tape...
http://www.nbcwashington.com/weather/stories/Eyewitness_Confirms__Cop_Freaks_Out_Over_Snowball_Fight_Waves_Gun-79729162.html
"I am approaching the subject now. I am acting cautiously and keeping my gun on the fucker because of the AK-47 shaped bulge in his pants, and the 2 simmering crack pipes in his mouth."
The only thing I can really think of is if you get into an altercation with a man/woman of the law it'll be just that more important to shut the fuck up. The only time I've ever really talked to the cops was a few weeks ago when they wanted a statement because I caught a counterfeit bill at work. Nothing really fucks up a root beer float quite as much as an officer and one of your managers walking in while you're trying to enjoy it.
Quote from: Iptuous on December 21, 2009, 06:53:30 PM
I sometimes think an apology for rude thoughts on the off chance that the subject of the thought is able to read minds. Then i usually think about chastising them for being so rude as to read my mind without acknowledging it...
:lol:
:mittens:
and yes, I have done this too (rarely)
Quote from: LMNO on December 21, 2009, 06:13:02 PM
Quote from: Slanket the Destroyer on December 21, 2009, 02:15:09 AM
Cameras on every corner are one thing, cameras observing the people given lots of authority are another.
Speaking of cameras on every corner, I heard a story about a city installing speed traps and then uninstalling them because they worked too well. Everyone stopped speeding and the city was no longer able to obtain any revenue from speeding tickets.
Anybody else laughing at the fact that, rather than seek to eliminate it, cities absolutely depend on crime in order to stay solvent?
This principle is nothing new - it's the basis of the modern police force.
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on December 21, 2009, 08:16:30 PM
Quote from: LMNO on December 21, 2009, 06:13:02 PM
Quote from: Slanket the Destroyer on December 21, 2009, 02:15:09 AM
Cameras on every corner are one thing, cameras observing the people given lots of authority are another.
Speaking of cameras on every corner, I heard a story about a city installing speed traps and then uninstalling them because they worked too well. Everyone stopped speeding and the city was no longer able to obtain any revenue from speeding tickets.
Anybody else laughing at the fact that, rather than seek to eliminate it, cities absolutely depend on crime in order to stay solvent?
This principle is nothing new - it's the basis of the modern police force.
It's what our RICO Act is all about.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 21, 2009, 08:20:12 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on December 21, 2009, 08:16:30 PM
Quote from: LMNO on December 21, 2009, 06:13:02 PM
Quote from: Slanket the Destroyer on December 21, 2009, 02:15:09 AM
Cameras on every corner are one thing, cameras observing the people given lots of authority are another.
Speaking of cameras on every corner, I heard a story about a city installing speed traps and then uninstalling them because they worked too well. Everyone stopped speeding and the city was no longer able to obtain any revenue from speeding tickets.
Anybody else laughing at the fact that, rather than seek to eliminate it, cities absolutely depend on crime in order to stay solvent?
This principle is nothing new - it's the basis of the modern police force.
It's what our RICO Act is all about.
Could you elaborate? I don't know much about the RICO, except that it is meant to be used for racketeering, and that there's been some high profile cases of just that....
has there been non-organized crime that has been dubiously prosecuted under RICO in order to generate revenues?
Quote from: Iptuous on December 21, 2009, 08:28:18 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 21, 2009, 08:20:12 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on December 21, 2009, 08:16:30 PM
Quote from: LMNO on December 21, 2009, 06:13:02 PM
Quote from: Slanket the Destroyer on December 21, 2009, 02:15:09 AM
Cameras on every corner are one thing, cameras observing the people given lots of authority are another.
Speaking of cameras on every corner, I heard a story about a city installing speed traps and then uninstalling them because they worked too well. Everyone stopped speeding and the city was no longer able to obtain any revenue from speeding tickets.
Anybody else laughing at the fact that, rather than seek to eliminate it, cities absolutely depend on crime in order to stay solvent?
This principle is nothing new - it's the basis of the modern police force.
It's what our RICO Act is all about.
Could you elaborate? I don't know much about the RICO, except that it is meant to be used for racketeering, and that there's been some high profile cases of just that....
has there been non-organized crime that has been dubiously prosecuted under RICO in order to generate revenues?
Constantly.
Google it up. It was used in Louisiana, for example, to seize vintage cars. The cops had a list of cars they were after.
The most fun is that the property is seized and auctioned before trial, and in some cases before arraignment (violating amendment VI). If you are found innocent, you have to petition the government for your property, and then you get back what hasn't been spent.
Nice, eh?
oh, that's fucking awesome!
only the best wear the badge, eh?
Quote from: Iptuous on December 21, 2009, 08:32:42 PM
oh, that's fucking awesome!
only the best wear the badge, eh?
Don't blame the cops.
After all, you get the cops you put up with.
Law - If you thought it was about justice you deserve to get assfucked :lulz:
Wowwwww. I had no idea that shit like that happened. That's fucking fantastic though . :horrormirth:
The thing that I hate about this area is that the fucking cops are BORED. If ANYTHING goes down like, every fucking cop on duty shows up because they've got nothing to do. I've seen it happen several times where I work. They'll catch someone shoplifting and like, three fucking cars show up. They had four cop cars, a fire truck, and an ambulance out front one time to deal with one drunk and belligerent dude. That made my break more interesting at least. Smoking a Cigarette out front when all of a sudden some random dude gets tazed and then for the next five minutes says "I'm sorry I'm sorry" and "I love you guys" over and over again.
Quote from: Chief Uwachiquen on December 21, 2009, 08:46:31 PM
The thing that I hate about this area is that the fucking cops are BORED. If ANYTHING goes down like, every fucking cop on duty shows up because they've got nothing to do.
Plus, they're just
itching to use their various DHS funded toys out...
Quote from: Chief Uwachiquen on December 21, 2009, 08:46:31 PM
Wowwwww. I had no idea that shit like that happened. That's fucking fantastic though . :horrormirth:
The thing that I hate about this area is that the fucking cops are BORED. If ANYTHING goes down like, every fucking cop on duty shows up because they've got nothing to do. I've seen it happen several times where I work. They'll catch someone shoplifting and like, three fucking cars show up. They had four cop cars, a fire truck, and an ambulance out front one time to deal with one drunk and belligerent dude. That made my break more interesting at least. Smoking a Cigarette out front when all of a sudden some random dude gets tazed and then for the next five minutes says "I'm sorry I'm sorry" and "I love you guys" over and over again.
Bored cops are fun, yes.
Quote from: Iptuous on December 21, 2009, 08:50:01 PM
Quote from: Chief Uwachiquen on December 21, 2009, 08:46:31 PM
The thing that I hate about this area is that the fucking cops are BORED. If ANYTHING goes down like, every fucking cop on duty shows up because they've got nothing to do.
Plus, they're just itching to use their various DHS funded toys out...
There are 57 armored vehicles in Tucson's motor pool. :)
Quote from: NotPublished on December 21, 2009, 02:21:12 AM
The ideas here are conflicting, while I do agree that Police themselves should be watched. But are they so damn untrust worthy that they have to in the first place?
They're human. Yes.
Also, untrustworthy is one word.
Quote from: Slanket the Destroyer on December 21, 2009, 08:52:40 PM
Quote from: NotPublished on December 21, 2009, 02:21:12 AM
The ideas here are conflicting, while I do agree that Police themselves should be watched. But are they so damn untrust worthy that they have to in the first place?
They're human. Yes.
Also, untrustworthy is one word.
don't untrust his vocab ulary...
Quote from: Slanket the Destroyer on December 21, 2009, 02:15:09 AM
Cameras on every corner are one thing, cameras observing the people given lots of authority are another.
Speaking of cameras on every corner, I heard a story about a city installing speed traps and then uninstalling them because they worked too well. Everyone stopped speeding and the city was no longer able to obtain any revenue from speeding tickets.
Sounds about right---back to the fucking money thing.
Quote from: NotPublished on December 21, 2009, 08:33:57 AM
... everyones still fucked. I am just slightly more than the rest.
Little princess has a bubu? :sad: :cry: :x
Quote from: JohNyx on December 22, 2009, 12:30:07 AM
Quote from: NotPublished on December 21, 2009, 08:33:57 AM
... everyones still fucked. I am just slightly more than the rest.
Little princess has a bubu? :sad: :cry: :x
:lulz: Rage against the world.
"police mounted rickroll"? :lol:
Jenne,
Would pay to see that (if BAI meant the one true rickroll she knows of)