Principia Discordia

Principia Discordia => Or Kill Me => Topic started by: The Good Reverend Roger on July 08, 2004, 07:42:30 AM

Title: Life in the Age of Dumb, part 2: A vengeful tide.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on July 08, 2004, 07:42:30 AM
Blarg!
Title: Life in the Age of Dumb, part 2: A vengeful tide.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on July 08, 2004, 01:28:21 PM
Speak up, man.
Title: Life in the Age of Dumb, part 2: A vengeful tide.
Post by: Rupert Giles on July 08, 2004, 01:29:27 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend RogerSpeak up, man.

Ah Sayd, "Ee's a teet beet nippla in 'ere!"
Title: Life in the Age of Dumb, part 2: A vengeful tide.
Post by: Lister on July 08, 2004, 07:35:47 PM
So if Bush gets re-elected, he'll get the blame?
Maybe he even sponsored Michael Moore, so he won't get elected again...

One thing I've been curious for a While...
What's employment in the US like?

If you turn on the tv here to the usual american rubbish, everyone needs 2 jobs a day to make ends meet, can get fired on a whim (arrive half an hour late from work and you're fired), work 12-hour days with almost no breaks,...

How much of this is true?
What's an average (or median if you like) income over there?
How much is minimum wage?
Title: Life in the Age of Dumb, part 2: A vengeful tide.
Post by: BADGE OF HONOR on July 08, 2004, 07:48:04 PM
Like everything else, employment varies with location and type.  If you have a job that requires a lot of training, and has few workers available, for damn sure job security is high.  But if you have a low-skill job, which lots of people can fill, you better make yourself a shining example.  Also different markets supply different jobs--like my sister had a hell of a time getting a job in Boston, but I could wander downtown and get myself employed within a day.  If I weren't a lazy bum.
Title: Life in the Age of Dumb, part 2: A vengeful tide.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on July 09, 2004, 06:17:46 AM
Quote from: ListerSo if Bush gets re-elected, he'll get the blame?
Maybe he even sponsored Michael Moore, so he won't get elected again...

One thing I've been curious for a While...
What's employment in the US like?

If you turn on the tv here to the usual american rubbish, everyone needs 2 jobs a day to make ends meet, can get fired on a whim (arrive half an hour late from work and you're fired), work 12-hour days with almost no breaks,...

How much of this is true?
What's an average (or median if you like) income over there?
How much is minimum wage?

Kerry is leading 54/43 right now.  No president since WWII has been re-elected without having at least 50 in the polls.

It is almost universally true (the jobs bit)...except for the top 9% or so.

Median wage is ~20K/year.

Minimum wage depends on the state, but the fed minimum is $5.40/hr, I believe.
Title: Life in the Age of Dumb, part 2: A vengeful tide.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on July 09, 2004, 06:19:00 AM
Quote from: Wenchmaster KLike everything else, employment varies with location and type.  If you have a job that requires a lot of training, and has few workers available, for damn sure job security is high.  But if you have a low-skill job, which lots of people can fill, you better make yourself a shining example.  Also different markets supply different jobs--like my sister had a hell of a time getting a job in Boston, but I could wander downtown and get myself employed within a day.  If I weren't a lazy bum.

That SOUNDS reassuring, but can you explain the drop off in jobs across the board?

I can.
Title: Life in the Age of Dumb, part 2: A vengeful tide.
Post by: BADGE OF HONOR on July 09, 2004, 07:37:51 AM
I was talking about the way job markets work, not the current state of employment here, which is any job that could possibly be exported is.  Stupid greedy corps.
Title: Life in the Age of Dumb, part 2: A vengeful tide.
Post by: Guido Finucci on July 09, 2004, 08:05:19 AM
Apparently (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20040708.wread0708/BNStory/Entertainment/), in 2002 only 57% of the reading population of the US actually bothered to read a book at all.

Amongst adult men it is even worse -- only 38% of them read any literature (plays, poems and narrative fiction count).

Which one of your Presidents was it that said, "An informed electorate being the cornerstone of any successful democracy, we should get the fuck out of Dodge while we can and institute an autocracy before anyone notices"?
Title: Life in the Age of Dumb, part 2: A vengeful tide.
Post by: slothrop23 on July 09, 2004, 10:37:17 AM
dont the saudi royal family have about 2 trillion dollors in the american oil market or whatever it is. does that mean if they decide to withdraw it america would crumble. at least clinton saved the budget, but bush within six months fucked it right. add up the arse as applicable.
Title: Life in the Age of Dumb, part 2: A vengeful tide.
Post by: Lister on July 09, 2004, 06:00:47 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger
It is almost universally true (the jobs bit)...except for the top 9% or so.

I am shocked...

You mean TV was right?

I expected TV to lie to me; it had always lied to me before...  

You used to know where you stood with TV back in the day, and then it suddenly starts spouting out true stuff...

Everytime I saw such a reference on TV (in some movie or show) when someone got fired because they were late, or just because one customer complained, I always thought "nah, it can't be that bad"...

I hopefully assume that 20k a year is after income taxes and including bonusses...  That would make it roughly the same as over here, easing my mind a bit...
Title: Life in the Age of Dumb, part 2: A vengeful tide.
Post by: Trollax on July 10, 2004, 04:17:59 AM
Quote from: Guido FinucciApparently (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20040708.wread0708/BNStory/Entertainment/), in 2002 only 57% of the reading population of the US actually bothered to read a book at all.

Amongst adult men it is even worse -- only 38% of them read any literature (plays, poems and narrative fiction count).

Which one of your Presidents was it that said, "An informed electorate being the cornerstone of any successful democracy, we should get the fuck out of Dodge while we can and institute an autocracy before anyone notices"?

Don't worry, I can more than make up for that. My library is about a third of the boxes going to the new house...

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger
Minimum wage depends on the state, but the fed minimum is $5.40/hr, I believe.
Jesus Roger! even with the way the OZ economy was back in 2000 I was making twice that an hour at 16 years of age!  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:
CLI may be high here, but the federal minimum wage for a legal adult is $10.00 OZ per hour accross the board, for juniors it can be anywhere from $7.50 to $9.00 (what I was making in my last job) If you're a qualified professional (apprenticeship or degree) you can earn anywhere from $15.00 to $35.00 an hour. Even when the Australian dollar was worth 49.7 US cents My sister (who get's paid $20.00 an hour as a vocal teacher and $12.50 at the organic shop)  is making twice the American minimum wage...
Title: Life in the Age of Dumb, part 2: A vengeful tide.
Post by: gnimbley on July 10, 2004, 04:26:27 AM
Welcome to the Brave New World.
Title: Life in the Age of Dumb, part 2: A vengeful tide.
Post by: Trollax on July 10, 2004, 04:37:32 AM
Quote from: gnimbleyWelcome to the Brave New World.

I never voted for Orwell.
Title: Life in the Age of Dumb, part 2: A vengeful tide.
Post by: gnimbley on July 10, 2004, 04:41:40 AM
Quote from: St. Trollax, ODD
Quote from: gnimbleyWelcome to the Brave New World.

I never voted for Orwell.

Nor for Huxley either, it would appear.
Title: Life in the Age of Dumb, part 2: A vengeful tide.
Post by: Trollax on July 10, 2004, 04:44:59 AM
Quote from: gnimbley
Quote from: St. Trollax, ODD
Quote from: gnimbleyWelcome to the Brave New World.

I never voted for Orwell.

Nor for Huxley either, it would appear.

Nope, Or Dick, or Lovecraft, Or RAW, Or even Shatner's old Toupee
Title: Life in the Age of Dumb, part 2: A vengeful tide.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on July 10, 2004, 06:14:48 AM
Quote from: Lister
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger
It is almost universally true (the jobs bit)...except for the top 9% or so.

I am shocked...

You mean TV was right?

I expected TV to lie to me; it had always lied to me before...  


The TV lies, but some of its lies are true.
Title: Life in the Age of Dumb, part 2: A vengeful tide.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on July 10, 2004, 06:15:48 AM
Quote from: St. Trollax, ODDJesus Roger! even with the way the OZ economy was back in 2000 I was making twice that an hour at 16 years of age!  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:
CLI may be high here, but the federal minimum wage for a legal adult is $10.00 OZ per hour accross the board, for juniors it can be anywhere from $7.50 to $9.00 (what I was making in my last job) If you're a qualified professional (apprenticeship or degree) you can earn anywhere from $15.00 to $35.00 an hour. Even when the Australian dollar was worth 49.7 US cents My sister (who get's paid $20.00 an hour as a vocal teacher and $12.50 at the organic shop)  is making twice the American minimum wage...

How does it feel, to live in a civilized nation?
Title: Life in the Age of Dumb, part 2: A vengeful tide.
Post by: Trollax on July 10, 2004, 06:19:14 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger
Quote from: St. Trollax, ODDJesus Roger! even with the way the OZ economy was back in 2000 I was making twice that an hour at 16 years of age!  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:
CLI may be high here, but the federal minimum wage for a legal adult is $10.00 OZ per hour accross the board, for juniors it can be anywhere from $7.50 to $9.00 (what I was making in my last job) If you're a qualified professional (apprenticeship or degree) you can earn anywhere from $15.00 to $35.00 an hour. Even when the Australian dollar was worth 49.7 US cents My sister (who get's paid $20.00 an hour as a vocal teacher and $12.50 at the organic shop)  is making twice the American minimum wage...

How does it feel, to live in a civilized nation?

:lol:

*Falls off chair in hysterics*

Oh that's rich! Sure, I can earn enough pocket change from an average job but you tell me how a country which imprisons people for the heinous crime of running away from war, poverty, disease, and famine for five years is civilised?
Damn ociffer, I didn't know it was a death sentence for fleeing an exploding carbomb. If I had've known that I would have gotten myself shrapnelled.
Title: Life in the Age of Dumb, part 2: A vengeful tide.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on July 10, 2004, 06:21:33 AM
Quote from: St. Trollax, ODD
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger
Quote from: St. Trollax, ODDJesus Roger! even with the way the OZ economy was back in 2000 I was making twice that an hour at 16 years of age!  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:
CLI may be high here, but the federal minimum wage for a legal adult is $10.00 OZ per hour accross the board, for juniors it can be anywhere from $7.50 to $9.00 (what I was making in my last job) If you're a qualified professional (apprenticeship or degree) you can earn anywhere from $15.00 to $35.00 an hour. Even when the Australian dollar was worth 49.7 US cents My sister (who get's paid $20.00 an hour as a vocal teacher and $12.50 at the organic shop)  is making twice the American minimum wage...

How does it feel, to live in a civilized nation?

:lol:

*Falls off chair in hysterics*

Oh that's rich! Sure, I can earn enough pocket change from an average job but you tell me how a country which imprisons people for the heinous crime of running away from war, poverty, disease, and famine for five years is civilised?
Damn ociffer, I didn't know it was a death sentence for fleeing an exploding carbomb. If I had've known that I would have gotten myself shrapnelled.

America, OTOH, has 5% of the world's population, and 25% of the world's imprisoned population.

You were saying?
Title: Life in the Age of Dumb, part 2: A vengeful tide.
Post by: Trollax on July 10, 2004, 06:24:52 AM
There are obviously different degrees of civilisation. I'm sure a totally civilised nation would involve a prison 3,000 miles a side where the guards lock themselves up at night and the warden in a perfect bundle of neuroses who worries that if he worries about thinking about sex that god might think that's just as bad as stabbing puppies. Or in Shrub's case, he's been lobotomised to have no metacognitive capacity at all. Psychologists have a term for a state where a person is unable to fully appreciate their own thought processes... It's called childhood.
Title: Life in the Age of Dumb, part 2: A vengeful tide.
Post by: Irreverend Hugh, KSC on July 10, 2004, 07:19:03 AM
Yeah. Bush claimed that in the last year his administration presided over the creation of 1.4 million new jobs. When I heard that, I was thinking "Uh huh. Bite me." If working at Walmart at 5.40 an hour is your idea of a splendid new job. We have people who used to make more than enough to live on now having to earn minimum wage or just over it. Workers who did factory gigs at about 12-18 dollars an hour now must do the same job for 6-9 dollars an hour, if they can even find a similar fricken job. Old people who are supposedly retired(tm) are working to make ends meet. Bankruptcies are on the rise, (I think last year's chapter 7 total was almost two million people) and so is the cost of living.
Title: Life in the Age of Dumb, part 2: A vengeful tide.
Post by: Trollax on July 10, 2004, 07:22:56 AM
Quote from: St. Hugh, KSCYeah. Bush claimed that in the last year his administration presided over the creation of 1.4 million new jobs. When I heard that, I was thinking "Uh huh. Bite me." If working at Walmart at 5.40 an hour is your idea of a splendid new job. We have people who used to make more than enough to live on now having to earn minimum wage or just over it. Workers who did factory gigs at about 12-18 dollars an hour now must do the same job for 6-9 dollars an hour, if they can even find a similar fricken job. Old people who are supposedly retired(tm) are working to make ends meet. Bankruptcies are on the rise, (I think last year's chapter 7 total was almost two million people) and so is the cost of living.

Hugh, you know that the sewer grates were actually made with the letters "PMC" on them waaaay back in the 40's don't you? If there was ever a sign to get out of Amerika, this is one...
Title: Life in the Age of Dumb, part 2: A vengeful tide.
Post by: Irreverend Hugh, KSC on July 10, 2004, 07:29:07 AM
Quote from: St. Trollax, ODD

Hugh, you know that the sewer grates were actually made with the letters "PMC" on them waaaay back in the 40's don't you? If there was ever a sign to get out of Amerika, this is one...

Amerika? Or Amerikkka?

Sometimes the I think the only way I'm getting of America is to hack my way out piece by piece.  (Living here can do that to one's mind.)
Title: Life in the Age of Dumb, part 2: A vengeful tide.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on July 10, 2004, 08:31:34 AM
Quote from: St. Hugh, KSCYeah. Bush claimed that in the last year his administration presided over the creation of 1.4 million new jobs. When I heard that, I was thinking "Uh huh. Bite me." If working at Walmart at 5.40 an hour is your idea of a splendid new job. We have people who used to make more than enough to live on now having to earn minimum wage or just over it. Workers who did factory gigs at about 12-18 dollars an hour now must do the same job for 6-9 dollars an hour, if they can even find a similar fricken job. Old people who are supposedly retired(tm) are working to make ends meet. Bankruptcies are on the rise, (I think last year's chapter 7 total was almost two million people) and so is the cost of living.

He did.  Now, ask what his NET new job creation record is...

(Hint:  He shares stats with his dad and Herbert Hoover.)
Title: Life in the Age of Dumb, part 2: A vengeful tide.
Post by: Irreverend Hugh, KSC on July 10, 2004, 08:41:12 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger
Quote from: St. Hugh, KSCYeah. Bush claimed that in the last year his administration presided over the creation of 1.4 million new jobs. When I heard that, I was thinking "Uh huh. Bite me." If working at Walmart at 5.40 an hour is your idea of a splendid new job. We have people who used to make more than enough to live on now having to earn minimum wage or just over it. Workers who did factory gigs at about 12-18 dollars an hour now must do the same job for 6-9 dollars an hour, if they can even find a similar fricken job. Old people who are supposedly retired(tm) are working to make ends meet. Bankruptcies are on the rise, (I think last year's chapter 7 total was almost two million people) and so is the cost of living.

He did.  Now, ask what his NET new job creation record is...

(Hint:  He shares stats with his dad and Herbert Hoover.)

Meaning he sucks ass crack hairs?
Title: Life in the Age of Dumb, part 2: A vengeful tide.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on July 10, 2004, 09:36:07 AM
Quote from: St. Hugh, KSC
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger
Quote from: St. Hugh, KSCYeah. Bush claimed that in the last year his administration presided over the creation of 1.4 million new jobs. When I heard that, I was thinking "Uh huh. Bite me." If working at Walmart at 5.40 an hour is your idea of a splendid new job. We have people who used to make more than enough to live on now having to earn minimum wage or just over it. Workers who did factory gigs at about 12-18 dollars an hour now must do the same job for 6-9 dollars an hour, if they can even find a similar fricken job. Old people who are supposedly retired(tm) are working to make ends meet. Bankruptcies are on the rise, (I think last year's chapter 7 total was almost two million people) and so is the cost of living.

He did.  Now, ask what his NET new job creation record is...

(Hint:  He shares stats with his dad and Herbert Hoover.)

Meaning he sucks ass crack hairs?

Meaning he is one of only three US presidents to have a net NEGATIVE job creation record.
Title: Life in the Age of Dumb, part 2: A vengeful tide.
Post by: Rupert Giles on July 10, 2004, 09:38:30 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger
Quote from: St. Hugh, KSC
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger
Quote from: St. Hugh, KSCYeah. Bush claimed that in the last year his administration presided over the creation of 1.4 million new jobs. When I heard that, I was thinking "Uh huh. Bite me." If working at Walmart at 5.40 an hour is your idea of a splendid new job. We have people who used to make more than enough to live on now having to earn minimum wage or just over it. Workers who did factory gigs at about 12-18 dollars an hour now must do the same job for 6-9 dollars an hour, if they can even find a similar fricken job. Old people who are supposedly retired(tm) are working to make ends meet. Bankruptcies are on the rise, (I think last year's chapter 7 total was almost two million people) and so is the cost of living.

He did.  Now, ask what his NET new job creation record is...

(Hint:  He shares stats with his dad and Herbert Hoover.)

Meaning he sucks ass crack hairs?

Meaning he is one of only three US presidents to have a net NEGATIVE job creation record.

Could you please express that as a corollary to the third law of thermodynamics, as it relates to why I'm hungry?
Title: Life in the Age of Dumb, part 2: A vengeful tide.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on July 10, 2004, 09:42:43 AM
Quote from: Compositus Confusio
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger
Quote from: St. Hugh, KSC
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger
Quote from: St. Hugh, KSCYeah. Bush claimed that in the last year his administration presided over the creation of 1.4 million new jobs. When I heard that, I was thinking "Uh huh. Bite me." If working at Walmart at 5.40 an hour is your idea of a splendid new job. We have people who used to make more than enough to live on now having to earn minimum wage or just over it. Workers who did factory gigs at about 12-18 dollars an hour now must do the same job for 6-9 dollars an hour, if they can even find a similar fricken job. Old people who are supposedly retired(tm) are working to make ends meet. Bankruptcies are on the rise, (I think last year's chapter 7 total was almost two million people) and so is the cost of living.

He did.  Now, ask what his NET new job creation record is...

(Hint:  He shares stats with his dad and Herbert Hoover.)

Meaning he sucks ass crack hairs?

Meaning he is one of only three US presidents to have a net NEGATIVE job creation record.

Could you please express that as a corollary to the third law of thermodynamics, as it relates to why I'm hungry?

Sure.  In layman's terms, you don't have a job, because Bush ACTIVELY ENCOURAGES corporations to send jobs to Malaysia, etc...you can't buy food, because you have no job, so you are hungry.

Action.  Reaction.  Slow starvation.
Title: Life in the Age of Dumb, part 2: A vengeful tide.
Post by: Irreverend Hugh, KSC on July 10, 2004, 09:44:21 AM
E=tY*8 (95)+ErD{damn}=Lf
Title: Life in the Age of Dumb, part 2: A vengeful tide.
Post by: Irreverend Hugh, KSC on July 10, 2004, 09:51:55 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger

Sure.  In layman's terms, you don't have a job, because Bush ACTIVELY ENCOURAGES corporations to send jobs to Malaysia, etc...you can't buy food, because you have no job, so you are hungry.

Action.  Reaction.  Slow starvation.

Yep. The old starvation method. It keeps the population under control.
Title: Life in the Age of Dumb, part 2: A vengeful tide.
Post by: Rupert Giles on July 10, 2004, 09:59:50 AM
Quote from: St. Hugh, KSC
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger

Sure.  In layman's terms, you don't have a job, because Bush ACTIVELY ENCOURAGES corporations to send jobs to Malaysia, etc...you can't buy food, because you have no job, so you are hungry.

Action.  Reaction.  Slow starvation.

Yep. The old starvation method. It keeps the population under control.

Too bad it missed some people I know who post on this thread who have done so directly above me...

...Am I not being Obfuscated enough?

I'm just kidding.  I love you.

TO DEATH.
Title: Life in the Age of Dumb, part 2: A vengeful tide.
Post by: sakredchao on July 12, 2004, 01:57:58 AM
people have to work 2 jobs to "make ends meet" because they choose to live that lifestyle.  stop paying rent and then you save thousands every year.  

i have never had a problem holding down a job.  
if you:
1. show up on time
2. work hard

you should always have work, or most employers who have ot let you go will help you find work by word of mouth.  or that's my experience out west, cause my generation is full of lazy slackers who wouldn't know how to work hard if their mtv depended on it.

aldous huxley wrote the brave new world right here in my backyard.  new mexico is "the savage reservation"..  

kim
Title: Life in the Age of Dumb, part 2: A vengeful tide.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on July 12, 2004, 02:44:29 AM
Quote from: sakredchaopeople have to work 2 jobs to "make ends meet" because they choose to live that lifestyle.  

Newt Gingrich?  Is that YOU?  :roll:
Title: Life in the Age of Dumb, part 2: A vengeful tide.
Post by: gnimbley on July 12, 2004, 04:09:04 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger
Quote from: sakredchaopeople have to work 2 jobs to "make ends meet" because they choose to live that lifestyle.  

Newt Gingrich?  Is that YOU?  :roll:

Sounds a lot like Dr. Phil, doesn't it? Must be an imposter in a sakredchao suit.
Title: Life in the Age of Dumb, part 2: A vengeful tide.
Post by: Rupert Giles on July 12, 2004, 03:08:03 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger
Quote from: sakredchaopeople have to work 2 jobs to "make ends meet" because they choose to live that lifestyle.  

Newt Gingrich?  Is that YOU?  :roll:

No, he's still trying to catch that Gazelle, along with Rush Limbaugh and Bob Dole.
Title: Life in the Age of Dumb, part 2: A vengeful tide.
Post by: Anonymous on July 12, 2004, 03:33:15 PM
by living that lifestyle, i mean they chose to buy into the industrial consumerist culture which tells people that they need money to live, instead of needing the money to live -that lifestyle-.

all of the people i know on welfare don't need it.  they get it cause it's easy.  i only have a couple friends i enjoy working with cause most of my other friends are lazy..  good to hang out with but not work with.  same attitude causes both things.

so i guess that makes me a little more republican, not liking welfare.
sort of anarchist-republican.  *shrug*  labels suck anyway.

kim
Title: Life in the Age of Dumb, part 2: A vengeful tide.
Post by: Lister on July 12, 2004, 07:50:28 PM
Sorta reminds me of someone (a colleague of a friend of mine) who works in a factory on nightshift for an entire month, in order to afford a special exhaust pipe so his pimped car makes a slightly different sound when driving...
Title: Life in the Age of Dumb, part 2: A vengeful tide.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on July 14, 2004, 06:59:56 AM
Quote from: Anonymousby living that lifestyle, i mean they chose to buy into the industrial consumerist culture which tells people that they need money to live, instead of needing the money to live -that lifestyle-.

all of the people i know on welfare don't need it.  they get it cause it's easy.  i only have a couple friends i enjoy working with cause most of my other friends are lazy..  good to hang out with but not work with.  same attitude causes both things.

so i guess that makes me a little more republican, not liking welfare.
sort of anarchist-republican.  *shrug*  labels suck anyway.

kim

Yeah, they choose to do stylish things like EAT.

The people you know may very well be welfare cheats, but there are people out there who HAVE NO CHOICE.

Easy to say they do, but have you ever BEEN to the Appalachias?  ZERO work, and no money to move.

Gary, Indiana?

Morris, Illinois?

Watertown, New York?

Killeen, Texas?

The bus station in your town?

Tell ya what...you go to the Hesed House in Aurora, Illinois, and then tell me that these people are just "lazy".

Many of them are mentally ill, tossed out on the streets (THANKS, REAGAN!), many are physically whole, and recently out of work, but have NO JOB PROSPECTS.  ALL of the fucking factories are closed/closing down.

So take your self-righteous, holier than thou BULLSHIT, and shove it up your ass.

That is all.
Title: Life in the Age of Dumb, part 2: A vengeful tide.
Post by: Trollax on July 14, 2004, 07:16:26 AM
Roger's right...

I spent two years out of school looking for work. I applied for over 300 jobs in that time and got two interviews, for both of which I was turned down. I had a friend threaten me last year with being reported to the tax office for hinting at the idea I might operate a psychic line and not report my earnings to the tax office.

After living in the economy Keating and Howard created I think I'm entitled. I had one casual job for six months last year earning less than award wage because I was working in a job that was for a junior trainee.

I'm surviving on $210 a fortnight, which is not going to cover the bills once I move out. Which is why I'm going into business for myself. Centerlink's slogan is "giving you options" but they never tell you anything ussefull unless you verbally abuse them (this is true, I've had to do this alot lately).
Title: Life in the Age of Dumb, part 2: A vengeful tide.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on July 14, 2004, 08:00:15 AM
Quote from: St. Trollax, ODDI had a friend threaten me last year with being reported to the tax office for hinting at the idea I might operate a psychic line and not report my earnings to the tax office.

With friends like THAT, who needs enemas?

You should have kicked his weasel ass.
Title: Life in the Age of Dumb, part 2: A vengeful tide.
Post by: Trollax on July 14, 2004, 08:11:07 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger
Quote from: St. Trollax, ODDI had a friend threaten me last year with being reported to the tax office for hinting at the idea I might operate a psychic line and not report my earnings to the tax office.

With friends like THAT, who needs enemas?

You should have kicked his weasel ass.

Who said I didn't? It's not his fault, he's a conservative religious man (who still has the family scottish streak, so he's always under a lot of stress from bible and heritage on opposite sides).
Title: Life in the Age of Dumb, part 2: A vengeful tide.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on July 14, 2004, 08:13:26 AM
Quote from: St. Trollax, ODD
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger
Quote from: St. Trollax, ODDI had a friend threaten me last year with being reported to the tax office for hinting at the idea I might operate a psychic line and not report my earnings to the tax office.

With friends like THAT, who needs enemas?

You should have kicked his weasel ass.

Who said I didn't? It's not his fault, he's a conservative religious man (who still has the family scottish streak, so he's always under a lot of stress from bible and heritage on opposite sides).

No excuse.  Friends don't turn friends in to the man.  That's really all there is to it.
Title: Life in the Age of Dumb, part 2: A vengeful tide.
Post by: Trollax on July 14, 2004, 08:15:26 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger
Quote from: St. Trollax, ODD
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger
Quote from: St. Trollax, ODDI had a friend threaten me last year with being reported to the tax office for hinting at the idea I might operate a psychic line and not report my earnings to the tax office.

With friends like THAT, who needs enemas?

You should have kicked his weasel ass.

Who said I didn't? It's not his fault, he's a conservative religious man (who still has the family scottish streak, so he's always under a lot of stress from bible and heritage on opposite sides).

No excuse.  Friends don't turn friends in to the man.  That's really all there is to it.

True enough...
Title: Life in the Age of Dumb, part 2: A vengeful tide.
Post by: Malaul on July 14, 2004, 04:21:19 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger

Gary, Indiana?


Ive been there

GODS it was smelly and had smokes stacks that where on fire!!!
Title: Life in the Age of Dumb, part 2: A vengeful tide.
Post by: gnimbley on July 14, 2004, 06:25:09 PM
Quote from: Malaul
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger

Gary, Indiana?


Ive been there

GODS it was smelly and had smokes stacks that where on fire!!!

That's on a good day.
Title: Life in the Age of Dumb, part 2: A vengeful tide.
Post by: sakredchao on July 15, 2004, 12:00:07 AM
call it bullshit if you like.  that's you're deal.

personally i've been homeless.  i've lived with the homeless.  there were a few..  very few.  who were mentally or physically ill and unable to do something useful (in our presentday society).

90%+ of the people i was living with on the street chose that lifestyle, cause its easy.  cause they wanted to bump tweak or whatever else they could get their noses on.

as to being able to leave town..  people feel it's so very hard cause they don't want to give up their precious possessions.

of course, it's much easier to say that humans are weak and powerless to do anything for themselves, than it is to actually get up and do it.

my ex and i argued about this regularly.  she said that not everyone had my "protestant, pull yourself up by your bootstraps work ethic" and because they didn't have that they were helpless.

you can eat in any town for free.  people living in poor countries would be bewildered by what is thrown away.  from grocery stores.  from restraunts.  the food is there, without the money.  although it does come with a social stigma of eating "garbage".  but, that garbage is perfectly good food.  i ate 40$ of sushi one day with a friend that was made the same day, for free.  i have other friends who -never- buy food.  they get what they need from the native plants and dumpsters.

have you lived on the streets before roger?  those are the people with the least of everything, and they know what the rest of society seems to have missed.  they have nothing and realize that they are surrounded by abundance.  occasionally someone decides they want to play the game and they get a job.  sometimes they keep playing and sometimes they go back.

you can yell at me if you want.  i still like you, and respect your opinion.  i just don't agree.

kim
Title: Life in the Age of Dumb, part 2: A vengeful tide.
Post by: gnimbley on July 15, 2004, 12:50:28 AM
Some people are on the street by choice. Some are not.

When they had a scandal at the state mental hospital here, instead of fixing the problem, the governor (the current Democratic Senator from Indiana) just closed the place. Made them someone else's problem, but not his. Some of them ended up on the street.

I also read an incredible book I picked up at a library sale called "Raised by Wolves." It is about runaways in Los Angeles. You could say they are on the street by choice. But for some that is only because they are running away from hell. Yeah, most of them are tweakers. I am not sure I can say that was exactly by choice either.

Then I know people who just work the system. It's like any economic system, supply and demand. The government creates supply by giving away money, and our culture creates supply by disposing of so much. The result is a demand arises to consume the supply. Classic capitalist economics. Adam Smith would be proud. Or not.

I can't speak to the proportions, which group dominates. Haven't been there. Don't expect to be. Don't think it really matters which group somebody belongs to. I still put money in their cups when I walk past.
Title: Life in the Age of Dumb, part 2: A vengeful tide.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on July 15, 2004, 01:40:21 AM
Quote from: sakredchaoas to being able to leave town..  people feel it's so very hard cause they don't want to give up their precious possessions.


No job, no money, probably no car.

Move a family of 4 to another state.

Explain how it's done.
Title: Life in the Age of Dumb, part 2: A vengeful tide.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on July 15, 2004, 01:41:08 AM
Quote from: gnimbleyI still put money in their cups when I walk past.

Damn liberals. :wink:
Title: Life in the Age of Dumb, part 2: A vengeful tide.
Post by: gnimbley on July 15, 2004, 01:42:23 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger
Quote from: gnimbleyI still put money in their cups when I walk past.

Damn liberals. :wink:

Damn neo-con fascists.  :wink:  :wink:
Title: Life in the Age of Dumb, part 2: A vengeful tide.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on July 15, 2004, 01:48:32 AM
Quote from: gnimbley
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger
Quote from: gnimbleyI still put money in their cups when I walk past.

Damn liberals. :wink:

Damn neo-con fascists.  :wink:  :wink:

You'll pay for that, come the revolution.

God tells me these things, you know.
Title: Life in the Age of Dumb, part 2: A vengeful tide.
Post by: gnimbley on July 15, 2004, 03:20:51 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger
Quote from: gnimbley
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger
Quote from: gnimbleyI still put money in their cups when I walk past.

Damn liberals. :wink:

Damn neo-con fascists.  :wink:  :wink:

You'll pay for that, come the revolution.

God tells me these things, you know.

Oooh. When you see him next. Can you ask him for that recipe for
double chocolate cookies with blue and white sprinkles?

Thanks, Rog. You de mechanic.
Title: Life in the Age of Dumb, part 2: A vengeful tide.
Post by: sakredchao on July 15, 2004, 04:18:05 AM
what did people do for food during the great depression.  in that time in our history people were in much worse straights than folk are now, and far more of them were in that position..  i recall hearing stories from my grandparents about people going door to door, asking for work.  refusing handouts, but desperate for work..  but back then we still knew how to work and didn't operate under a mentality of entitlement.

if i had to move a family of 4 to another city, i'd gather up what little i had (or what little i needed) and go to the interstate which was going where i was.  and you know what, i'd get picked up.  just like poeple got picked up in the dust bowl era heading from the midwest to cali.  granted things weren't much better there in cali, but they got where they were going.  i'd get picked up.  probably faster with kids than with just myself.  and i'd get picked up by some poor person with just enough themselves.  not someone with money to spare.  why is it that the people with nothing are ready to share half of what they have with someone, and the person with everything is unwilling to part with what they have?

now, don't get me wrong, i don't mind helping people.  i just don't like being forced to.  i am an anarchist.  i oppose all functions of goverment, and that includes welfare.  that includes police.  and if i get shot by vigilantes while starving to death, so be it.

as for money in the cup.  i have never panhandled for money in my life.  and when i'm asked for money i offer them food.  i usually get "i'm not looking for that."  to me that's homeless for "i'm trying to get drunk."  cause i've seen it.  i've seen people ask for money for food.  get it.  and walk directly from that spot to the liquour store.  i'd say one out of every 5 people accept food rather than money.  it's easy to make 50$ a day panhandling..  i've made less than that working a job.  sorry, if you can stand there for 6 hours with a sign you can go to work.

crazies on the street.  i met a guy once..  "met"..  he had 2 green army duffle bags.  i always saw him sitting in a park, staring ahead of him.  i tried several times to talk to him, but he just kept string off into the air.  i asked about him.  and people told me about the institution one town away that closed down, like gnimbley said, and let everyone go on the street.  now, this guy didn't need much..  he had all his clothes and such, 2 duffle bags full of whatever it was..  he just needed food, and that's not a big deal..  hell, if you want to make it equitable for the city taxpayers, have the price for a meal be a bag full of trash..  city gets clean, people get fed.  and -work is done-..

i don't know..  i'm not saying that i have all the answers for social reform, however i feel that the present system simply causes dependance on the system, which is the opposite of freedom.

kim
Title: Life in the Age of Dumb, part 2: A vengeful tide.
Post by: Chef on July 15, 2004, 06:39:36 AM
THIS COW DUDE IS RIGHT.  THE POOR SHOULD EAT GARBAGE.

169% OWNED!
Title: Life in the Age of Dumb, part 2: A vengeful tide.
Post by: sakredchao on July 15, 2004, 03:17:22 PM
if the people throwing it away were paying attention then it wouldn't be "garbage".  a local natural food store puts its' old vegetables out in a box beside the dumpster so people can take them home.  they're perfectly good, they're just not perfectly pretty.