Quote
An Army sergeant who served in Iraq for 15 months has been restricted to his Washington military base after being accused of waterboarding his 4-year-old daughter because she refused to recite her ABCs.
Joshua Ryan Tabor, 27, was arrested on Jan. 31 and charged with assaulting a child after police in Yelm, Wash., responded to a call of a disturbance at Tabor's home and then later found the little girl hiding in a locked bathroom, according to Police Chief Todd Stancil.
"We had a report of [Tabor] walking around his neighborhood holding a Kevlar helmet and threatening to bust out windows," Stancil told ABCNews.com today. "In the process of talking to Tabor's girlfriend about what was going on, we learned that he had also been abusing his daughter."
Stancil said that when the cops coaxed the little girl out of the bathroom they saw that she was covered in "multiple bruises pretty much all over her body."
"She was very open with us," Stancil said of the young girl, whose name is not being released because she is a minor. "She basically came right out and said, 'Daddy does this to me. He uses his hands.'"
Both the girl and the father admitted to the torture, even detailing how Tabor would sit the girl on the edge of the bathroom sink and hold her head down until it was nearly submerged in water, dunking her if she refused to recite the alphabet, said Stancil.
Tabor's girlfriend, who is not identified in the police reports, could also be charged in the crime, said Stancil. Several portions of the police report are redacted and may implicate the girlfriend in the assault.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/joshua-tabor-accused-waterboarding-young-daughter/story?id=9778116
Bonus synchronicity: it's ABC news.
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I hope he gets the chair.
Quote from: Sigmatic on February 08, 2010, 07:38:25 PM
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I hope he gets the chair.
He is doing precisely what we have programmed him to do.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 08, 2010, 07:56:46 PM
Quote from: Sigmatic on February 08, 2010, 07:38:25 PM
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I hope he gets the chair.
He is doing precisely what we have programmed him to do.
We train helicopter repairmen to waterboard people?
Quote from: gin on February 08, 2010, 08:03:58 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 08, 2010, 07:56:46 PM
Quote from: Sigmatic on February 08, 2010, 07:38:25 PM
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I hope he gets the chair.
He is doing precisely what we have programmed him to do.
:cry: :cry: :cry:
1. Obtain primates.
2. Put them in a military situation, but do not give them a mission.
3. Have them wander in circles until someone blows a few of them up.
4. Tell them that torture is okay, because the enemy is less than human. The enemy is anyone not in their unit.
5. Repeat for 15 months.
6. Send the subjects home with no counseling.
What happened here was inevitable. It will happen many more times. I imagine that worse things are happening, but have yet to come to light.
Quote from: Ratatosk on February 08, 2010, 08:05:42 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 08, 2010, 07:56:46 PM
Quote from: Sigmatic on February 08, 2010, 07:38:25 PM
:|
I hope he gets the chair.
He is doing precisely what we have programmed him to do.
We train helicopter repairmen to waterboard people?
1. There is no rear area (risk to non-combat personnel is almost as high as that of combat personnel), and
2. We tell them it's acceptable.
What he did wasn't actually waterboarding. If he'd been trained to do it properly, that kid would have been singing her ABCs all the way to the psychiatric ward.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 08, 2010, 08:14:56 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on February 08, 2010, 08:05:42 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 08, 2010, 07:56:46 PM
Quote from: Sigmatic on February 08, 2010, 07:38:25 PM
:|
I hope he gets the chair.
He is doing precisely what we have programmed him to do.
We train helicopter repairmen to waterboard people?
1. There is no rear area (risk to non-combat personnel is almost as high as that of combat personnel), and
2. We tell them it's acceptable.
What he did wasn't actually waterboarding. If he'd been trained to do it properly, that kid would have been singing her ABCs all the way to the psychiatric ward.
Makes sense...
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 08, 2010, 08:12:59 PM
Quote from: gin on February 08, 2010, 08:03:58 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 08, 2010, 07:56:46 PM
Quote from: Sigmatic on February 08, 2010, 07:38:25 PM
:|
I hope he gets the chair.
He is doing precisely what we have programmed him to do.
:cry: :cry: :cry:
1. Obtain primates.
2. Put them in a military situation, but do not give them a mission.
3. Have them wander in circles until someone blows a few of them up.
4. Tell them that torture is okay, because the enemy is less than human. The enemy is anyone not in their unit.
5. Repeat for 15 months.
6. Send the subjects home with no counseling.
What happened here was inevitable. It will happen many more times. I imagine that worse things are happening, but have yet to come to light.
I know. That's why I :cry:
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 08, 2010, 07:56:46 PM
Quote from: Sigmatic on February 08, 2010, 07:38:25 PM
:|
I hope he gets the chair.
He is doing precisely what we have programmed him to do.
Yeah, the military is in the monster creation business. I'm down for systemic change, ethical treatment of prisoners, and other Nice Things
TM, but in the interim, I'd like to see crimes get punished.
Quote from: Sigmatic on February 09, 2010, 07:05:29 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 08, 2010, 07:56:46 PM
Quote from: Sigmatic on February 08, 2010, 07:38:25 PM
:|
I hope he gets the chair.
He is doing precisely what we have programmed him to do.
Yeah, the military is in the monster creation business. I'm down for systemic change, ethical treatment of prisoners, and other Nice ThingsTM, but in the interim, I'd like to see crimes get punished.
Extremist.
Quote from: Sigmatic on February 09, 2010, 07:05:29 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 08, 2010, 07:56:46 PM
Quote from: Sigmatic on February 08, 2010, 07:38:25 PM
:|
I hope he gets the chair.
He is doing precisely what we have programmed him to do.
Yeah, the military is in the monster creation business. I'm down for systemic change, ethical treatment of prisoners, and other Nice ThingsTM, but in the interim, I'd like to see crimes get punished.
You're one of those "rule of law" extremists, aren't you?
We have a lot of military around here...makes me wonder.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 08, 2010, 08:14:56 PMWhat he did wasn't actually waterboarding. If he'd been trained to do it properly, that kid would have been singing her ABCs all the way to the psychiatric ward.
I think that was Enki's point about "transparent anti-torture propaganda".
Both things are horrible, but
dunking a kid's head just under water = child abuse
doing the thing with the piece of cloth over the face, chin higher than forehead, pouring water over that = waterboarding
They're just calling it "waterboarding" because the man used to be in Iraq.
Quote from: Triple Zero on February 09, 2010, 04:05:21 PM
I think that was Enki's point about "transparent anti-torture propaganda".
You know what's really horrible?
The fact that we need any anti-torture propaganda at all. Just think about that for a moment.
Also, this leads me to believe that Enki is upset by "transparent anti-torture propaganda".
Someone the other day, I can't remember who, was remarking that in 1999, if you had said that torture would not only become acceptable again, but there would be an actual torture lobby (read: Richard Cohen and his constant blubbering (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/01/AR2010020102854.html?hpid=opinionsbox1) in the WaPo. He admits torture doesn't work, but thinks it should be done anyway, because it impresses the public) he would have said you were crazy.
You know things are bad, when you look at the 90s and feel nostalgic.
Quote from: Cain on February 09, 2010, 04:50:20 PM
Someone the other day, I can't remember who, was remarking that in 1999, if you had said that torture would not only become acceptable again, but there would be an actual torture lobby (read: Richard Cohen and his constant blubbering (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/01/AR2010020102854.html?hpid=opinionsbox1) in the WaPo. He admits torture doesn't work, but thinks it should be done anyway, because it impresses the public) he would have said you were crazy.
You know things are bad, when you look at the 90s and feel nostalgic.
Hahaha! We should write that guy letters of encouragement, signed "Martin Bormann" and "A. Eichmann".
cohenr@washpost.com
Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
Of course, Cohen does get torn a new one by the blogs every other week for his constant blubbering, but I think emails add a personal touch to things.
Quote from: Cain on February 09, 2010, 05:02:51 PM
cohenr@washpost.com
Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
Of course, Cohen does get torn a new one by the blogs every other week for his constant blubbering, but I think emails add a personal touch to things.
I am so on this when I get home. :lol:
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 09, 2010, 02:00:41 PM
Quote from: Sigmatic on February 09, 2010, 07:05:29 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 08, 2010, 07:56:46 PM
Quote from: Sigmatic on February 08, 2010, 07:38:25 PM
:|
I hope he gets the chair.
He is doing precisely what we have programmed him to do.
Yeah, the military is in the monster creation business. I'm down for systemic change, ethical treatment of prisoners, and other Nice ThingsTM, but in the interim, I'd like to see crimes get punished.
You're one of those "rule of law" extremists, aren't you?
I need a gavel.
A fucking big one.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 09, 2010, 04:07:33 PM
Quote from: Triple Zero on February 09, 2010, 04:05:21 PM
I think that was Enki's point about "transparent anti-torture propaganda".
You know what's really horrible?
The fact that we need any anti-torture propaganda at all. Just think about that for a moment.
yup. :(
QuoteAlso, this leads me to believe that Enki is upset by "transparent anti-torture propaganda".
I wondered about that too, but then, you know me, benefit-of-the-doubt-guy, figured it was more about the fact that it was
really bad transparent anti-torture propaganda.
Cause I dunno, ENKI, for all his quirks, doesn't strike me as a torture guy ...
... wait a minute.
Dexter?
It is not my place to criticize what two or more consenting adults do in the privacy of their own abattoir.
Quote from: Enki v. 2.0 on February 10, 2010, 12:04:42 PM
It is not my place to criticize what two or more consenting adults do in the privacy of their own abattoir.
Well, yes, but it's the consent part.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 10, 2010, 04:05:16 PM
Quote from: Enki v. 2.0 on February 10, 2010, 12:04:42 PM
It is not my place to criticize what two or more consenting adults do in the privacy of their own abattoir.
Well, yes, but it's the consent part.
And this was one adult and one kid.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 08, 2010, 08:12:59 PM
Quote from: gin on February 08, 2010, 08:03:58 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 08, 2010, 07:56:46 PM
Quote from: Sigmatic on February 08, 2010, 07:38:25 PM
:|
I hope he gets the chair.
He is doing precisely what we have programmed him to do.
:cry: :cry: :cry:
1. Obtain primates.
2. Put them in a military situation, but do not give them a mission.
3. Have them wander in circles until someone blows a few of them up.
4. Tell them that torture is okay, because the enemy is less than human. The enemy is anyone not in their unit.
5. Repeat for 15 months.
6. Send the subjects home with no counseling.
What happened here was inevitable. It will happen many more times. I imagine that worse things are happening, but have yet to come to light.
Unfortunately, this. ^
From what I've heard the military is upping its efforts to deal with psychological stuff like this, but they've got a long way to go.
UK torture porn dissected here http://alamut.wordpress.com/2010/02/17/torture-porn-uk-edition/
I would c+p, only I don't feel well and that sounds like effort.
I think my final analysis is this: Torture is never acceptable under any circumstances, because any nation that would tolerate torture in their name isn't worth saving, by any means.
There's that too.
I am also of the opinion torture should be banned simply so bed-wetting pansies like Bruce Anderson keep needing to buy new underwear.
Quote from: Cain on February 17, 2010, 04:54:38 PM
There's that too.
I am also of the opinion torture should be banned simply so bed-wetting pansies like Bruce Anderson keep needing to buy new underwear.
That's an added benefit. Also, watching O'Reilly and Beck cry is always a hoot.
Vallee has an interesting devil's advocate position here: http://www.boingboing.net/2009/11/18/waterboardings-curio.html
Quote from: Enki v. 2.0 on February 17, 2010, 05:53:37 PM
Vallee has an interesting devil's advocate position here: http://www.boingboing.net/2009/11/18/waterboardings-curio.html
He isn't advocating waterboarding, Enki. Read it again.
Though I did have a good chuckle at the first comment, by some simpering coward who calls himself "Dragon Lord". :lol:
Oh, I realize he isn't advocating waterboarding. But, I agree with his analysis -- it's preferable to have clumsy non-working methods of interrogation rather than the clean and effective methods promised back in the sixties.
That said, in the united states at least, I can't imagine any of those methods would ever get produced. Of all the interrogation methods described in the MK-ULTRA documents, the one that makes the most sense is the one where you give someone a tranquilizer, and then give them an amphetamine when it starts working (then hope they babble about the right things).
Using drugs for interrogation tends to do longterm damage to the mind.
Thumbscrews, pine splints, and the rack tend to do long term damage to the everything.
Besides, wasn't the point to brainwash the ones who wouldn't talk anyway?
Also, where could one find a copy of (whats left of) the MK Ultra papers?
Quote from: Requia ☣ on February 17, 2010, 06:37:53 PM
Also, where could one find a copy of (whats left of) the MK Ultra papers?
http://www.michael-robinett.com/declass/c000.htm
The wikipedia article has decent summaries.
Well yes, but the excuse for torture apologists is that doing things like waterboarding or raping prisoners doesn't (which is bullshit). They need their nice and clean forms of torture so they can sleep at night.
Quote from: Enki v. 2.0 on February 17, 2010, 06:21:57 PM
Oh, I realize he isn't advocating waterboarding. But, I agree with his analysis -- it's preferable to have clumsy non-working methods of interrogation rather than the clean and effective methods promised back in the sixties.
Neither is acceptable, neither is better than the other.
There is no excuse for torture, and certainly not "at least we're not doing worse things".
Quote from: Enki v. 2.0 on February 17, 2010, 06:40:13 PM
Quote from: Requia ☣ on February 17, 2010, 06:37:53 PM
Also, where could one find a copy of (whats left of) the MK Ultra papers?
http://www.michael-robinett.com/declass/c000.htm
The wikipedia article has decent summaries.
Thanks, I think I'll wait till I'm not on the verge of throwing up to read that though.
Quote from: Requia ☣ on February 17, 2010, 06:44:35 PM
Quote from: Enki v. 2.0 on February 17, 2010, 06:40:13 PM
Quote from: Requia ☣ on February 17, 2010, 06:37:53 PM
Also, where could one find a copy of (whats left of) the MK Ultra papers?
http://www.michael-robinett.com/declass/c000.htm
The wikipedia article has decent summaries.
Thanks, I think I'll wait till I'm not on the verge of throwing up to read that though.
It reads like comedy, not tragedy. It's like "Mister Magoo Does Unethical Human Experimentation". It only breaks into horrormirth when they start working on the psychic driving technique..