http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article767459.ece
QuoteSCIENTISTS have for the first time found evidence that polar bears are drowning because climate change is melting the Arctic ice shelf.
The researchers were startled to find bears having to swim up to 60 miles across open sea to find food. They are being forced into the long voyages because the ice floes from which they feed are melting, becoming smaller and drifting farther apart.
Although polar bears are strong swimmers, they are adapted for swimming close to the shore. Their sea journeys leave them them vulnerable to exhaustion, hypothermia or being swamped by waves.
According to the new research, four bear carcases were found floating in one month in a single patch of sea off the north coast of Alaska, where average summer temperatures have increased by 2-3C degrees since 1950s.
The scientists believe such drownings are becoming widespread across the Arctic, an inevitable consequence of the doubling in the past 20 years of the proportion of polar bears having to swim in open seas.
Which sucks.
More info about Arctic sea ice is available here http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/index.html
Poor polar bears. :sad:
Polar bears have been known to eat people, so it saddens me to watch them die like this.
Yeah, that Discovery series that looks ubercool on HD has a segment where you watch this poor polar bear hunt seals, but he's so exhausted and famished he fails and ends up dying in a stretch not far from his prey.
It's really pathetic. :(
Old news is old. I can't be bothered with this, the Olympics are on!
Quote from: Annabel the Destroyer on February 17, 2010, 04:56:16 AM
Old news is old. I can't be bothered with this, the Olympics are on!
:x
I'm more worried about the 20 insect species that go extinct every day due to deforestation in the tropics than I am about one species of mammal.
If polar bears were a bug the public wouldn't give a shit.
Not that I'm saying "Yeah, fuck polar bears". Rather, this is an illustration of sexy megafauna syndrome in endangered species conservation.
All is fair in the war on stupid.
Whatever works.
Quote from: Kai on February 17, 2010, 12:52:48 PM
I'm more worried about the 20 insect species that go extinct every day due to deforestation in the tropics than I am about one species of mammal.
If polar bears were a bug the public wouldn't give a shit.
Not that I'm saying "Yeah, fuck polar bears". Rather, this is an illustration of sexy megafauna syndrome in endangered species conservation.
It appears the only solution is to make bugs as big as polar bears.
Get to work on that, Kai.
Quote from: Jenne on February 15, 2010, 06:25:02 PM
Yeah, that Discovery series that looks ubercool on HD has a segment where you watch this poor polar bear hunt seals, but he's so exhausted and famished he fails and ends up dying in a stretch not far from his prey.
It's really pathetic. :(
Unless you're the seal.
Quote from: Horrendous Foreign Love Stoat on February 17, 2010, 08:38:03 AM
you know you are all wondering what polar bear would taste like, and if they all drown would we miss out on tasty steak? and by 'you all' I mean me and we I mean 'I'
My understanding is that they taste strongly of fish.
It is sad, but we need to remember that over 99% of ALL the life that has ever existed on this planet is now extinct. It happens.
Is it coincidence that polar ice melts faster when the ozone hole is closed?
Does it?
Quote from: Hoopla on February 17, 2010, 07:41:06 PM
Does it?
I was reading an article a while back that talked about the correlation, but I wasn't really left with a conclusion one way or another. I figured someone here might know.
I'm not sure how the two relate, or if the possible benefits of closing of the ozone hole are dwarfed by the CO2 output, or what.
Yeah, I just posted here to say "I dunno". So sue me.
I remember reading somewhere that small numbers of polars were migrating south because of the melting ice, and were mating with grizzy's in Candada. Is this true or was it just bullshit? The idea of polar/grizzly hybrids makes me smile.
Forgive the spelling errors. Wrote that a bit fast.
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on February 17, 2010, 09:06:01 PM
I remember reading somewhere that small numbers of polars were migrating south because of the melting ice, and were mating with grizzy's in Candada. Is this true or was it just bullshit? The idea of polar/grizzly hybrids makes me smile.
If so, we need to capture them, put jagged steel caps on their teeth and claws, and release them.
In Tucson.
We need to move the polar bears to a free-floating magical island in the South Pacific and begin to perform experiments on them.
Quote
If so, we need to capture them, put jagged steel caps on their teeth and claws, and release them.
Agreed, though I'm not sure they'll really need them. But when has that ever had anything to do with anything.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 17, 2010, 09:07:35 PM
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on February 17, 2010, 09:06:01 PM
I remember reading somewhere that small numbers of polars were migrating south because of the melting ice, and were mating with grizzy's in Candada. Is this true or was it just bullshit? The idea of polar/grizzly hybrids makes me smile.
If so, we need to capture them, put jagged steel caps on their teeth and claws, and release them.
In Tucson.
Is it wrong that I think living in a city like this would give life more savor?
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on February 17, 2010, 09:13:45 PM
Quote
If so, we need to capture them, put jagged steel caps on their teeth and claws, and release them.
Agreed, though I'm not sure they'll really need them. But when has that ever had anything to do with anything.
Not everything has to be about NEED. Sometimes WANT and JUST FOR CHEAP KICKS are okay.
Quote from: Richter on February 17, 2010, 09:19:27 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 17, 2010, 09:07:35 PM
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on February 17, 2010, 09:06:01 PM
I remember reading somewhere that small numbers of polars were migrating south because of the melting ice, and were mating with grizzy's in Candada. Is this true or was it just bullshit? The idea of polar/grizzly hybrids makes me smile.
If so, we need to capture them, put jagged steel caps on their teeth and claws, and release them.
In Tucson.
Is it wrong that I think living in a city like this would give life more savor?
Fuck yes. Morning stars for EVERYBODY!
QuoteNot everything has to be about NEED. Sometimes WANT and JUST FOR CHEAP KICKS are okay.
As I keep having to remind myself.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 17, 2010, 09:39:09 PM
Quote from: Richter on February 17, 2010, 09:19:27 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 17, 2010, 09:07:35 PM
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on February 17, 2010, 09:06:01 PM
I remember reading somewhere that small numbers of polars were migrating south because of the melting ice, and were mating with grizzy's in Candada. Is this true or was it just bullshit? The idea of polar/grizzly hybrids makes me smile.
If so, we need to capture them, put jagged steel caps on their teeth and claws, and release them.
In Tucson.
Is it wrong that I think living in a city like this would give life more savor?
Fuck yes. Morning stars for EVERYBODY!
Flail and a motherfucker of a sword. Goddammit, I want the most dangerous thing to humans in a city to NOT be the other humans.
Although a bush pilot gun, like a snubnosed .50 would be FUN, it would be too easy.
We must be the ONLY species crazy and scary enough to actually WANT more natural predators.
Quote from: Calamity Nigel on February 17, 2010, 07:37:05 PM
Is it coincidence that polar ice melts faster when the ozone hole is closed?
No, at least, it was theorized that the reason the antarctic interior was getting colder was because of the ozone hole screwing with air currents. I haven't kept up but if that theory was correct then the ozone holes closing would cause more icemelt.
Quote from: LMNO on February 17, 2010, 03:39:11 PM
Quote from: Kai on February 17, 2010, 12:52:48 PM
I'm more worried about the 20 insect species that go extinct every day due to deforestation in the tropics than I am about one species of mammal.
If polar bears were a bug the public wouldn't give a shit.
Not that I'm saying "Yeah, fuck polar bears". Rather, this is an illustration of sexy megafauna syndrome in endangered species conservation.
It appears the only solution is to make bugs as big as polar bears.
Get to work on that, Kai.
I'm serious here. EO Wilson calls it the Biodiversity Crisis. We can repair the ozone layer, we can reduce emmissions and eventually bring down the CO2 levels, we will find new energy sources and populations will be forced to regulate.
But when those lineages are lost, they're lost forever. No backsies. Wilson said this was the thing future generations would be least likely to forgive us for.
What is that cheesy environmental movement slogan? Oh right, "extinction means forever". Doesn't feel so cheesy to me.
Even though extinction does happen in the natural course of evolution, we must take into account that these are extinctions that would not otherwise be happening if not for us, presumably the most dangerous species for light years in any direction.
Our CO2, our nukes, or anything else we've done is a kitten fart compared to just about every other object for several light years though.
irreverant brain "Extinction means WAFFLES!"
Quote from: Kai on February 18, 2010, 03:53:41 AM
But when those lineages are lost, they're lost forever. No backsies. Wilson said this was the thing future generations would be least likely to forgive us for.
I CAN TOP IT!
I refuse to alter my behavior based on the hypothetical stern looks and dissapointed shake of the head from millions of our progeny. They can retroactively damn us if they like, and they will be assholes smug in their perfect hindsight. I'm confident I won't be around to see it.
Dropping everything, life, job, savings and resources into saving a few polar bears would be about as useless as purposely tracking down and killing one so I can produce pictures of my flipping off the high and mighty enlightened future while munching on a polar bear steak.
Quote from: Richter on February 18, 2010, 12:49:20 PM
Our CO2, our nukes, or anything else we've done is a kitten fart compared to just about every other object for several light years though.
irreverant brain "Extinction means WAFFLES!"
Not bad for what amount to cosmic seamonkeys though.
Quote from: Richter on February 18, 2010, 03:23:56 PM
I refuse to alter my behavior based on the hypothetical stern looks and dissapointed shake of the head from millions of our progeny. They can retroactively damn us if they like, and they will be assholes smug in their perfect hindsight. I'm confident I won't be around to see it.
Dropping everything, life, job, savings and resources into saving a few polar bears would be about as useless as purposely tracking down and killing one so I can produce pictures of my flipping off the high and mighty enlightened future while munching on a polar bear steak.
You know, I really respect you, but I really fucking hate that mentality.
Really. Fucking hate it.
Quote from: Calamity Nigel on February 17, 2010, 08:08:34 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on February 17, 2010, 07:41:06 PM
Does it?
I was reading an article a while back that talked about the correlation, but I wasn't really left with a conclusion one way or another. I figured someone here might know.
well, Ozone is a greenhouse gas.....
WELL
The ONE kind of 'polar bear' which I'm familiar with is that from my home town in Wisconsin. During January it is customary to head down to the shore and collectively jump in through the ice and earn yer stripes as 'polar bear' Now, those folks are mostly wasted out of their gourds so there's more amazement at the survival rate.
AND
as much as I'd like to avoid the 'official' "bear" definition of 'polar bear', which is basically a 'silver haired/ elderly' fat man, I'd venture the amazement at survival rating is equal if their credit card isn't a factor and their boy isn't about.
Quote from: Kai on February 20, 2010, 02:01:29 AM
Quote from: Richter on February 18, 2010, 03:23:56 PM
I refuse to alter my behavior based on the hypothetical stern looks and dissapointed shake of the head from millions of our progeny. They can retroactively damn us if they like, and they will be assholes smug in their perfect hindsight. I'm confident I won't be around to see it.
Dropping everything, life, job, savings and resources into saving a few polar bears would be about as useless as purposely tracking down and killing one so I can produce pictures of my flipping off the high and mighty enlightened future while munching on a polar bear steak.
You know, I really respect you, but I really fucking hate that mentality.
Really. Fucking hate it.
Was hoping that came across extreme enough the other direction to be satire :|
I see the problem as a more large scale case of humanity needing to stop doing things short term and sloppy. Save a habitat, a species, stop use of a pesticide or pass legislation to reduce emission of a pollutant, it's all striking me as sticking a finger in the dike.
While we're there with our fingers in, someone else looking for a quick solution drills a hole to use it like a water fountain, and walks away leaving their hole open.
Quote from: Richter on February 21, 2010, 02:44:32 PM
While we're there with our fingers in, someone else looking for a quick solution drills a hole to use it like a water fountain, and walks away leaving their hole open.
And this will be their downfall. Never walk away from Richter without tightening one's sphincter.
Quote from: Richter on February 21, 2010, 02:44:32 PM
Quote from: Kai on February 20, 2010, 02:01:29 AM
Quote from: Richter on February 18, 2010, 03:23:56 PM
I refuse to alter my behavior based on the hypothetical stern looks and dissapointed shake of the head from millions of our progeny. They can retroactively damn us if they like, and they will be assholes smug in their perfect hindsight. I'm confident I won't be around to see it.
Dropping everything, life, job, savings and resources into saving a few polar bears would be about as useless as purposely tracking down and killing one so I can produce pictures of my flipping off the high and mighty enlightened future while munching on a polar bear steak.
You know, I really respect you, but I really fucking hate that mentality.
Really. Fucking hate it.
Was hoping that came across extreme enough the other direction to be satire :|
I see the problem as a more large scale case of humanity needing to stop doing things short term and sloppy. Save a habitat, a species, stop use of a pesticide or pass legislation to reduce emission of a pollutant, it's all striking me as sticking a finger in the dike.
While we're there with our fingers in, someone else looking for a quick solution drills a hole to use it like a water fountain, and walks away leaving their hole open.
Poe's law, my friend. Poe's law.
Quote from: Richter on February 21, 2010, 02:44:32 PM
Quote from: Kai on February 20, 2010, 02:01:29 AM
Quote from: Richter on February 18, 2010, 03:23:56 PM
I refuse to alter my behavior based on the hypothetical stern looks and dissapointed shake of the head from millions of our progeny. They can retroactively damn us if they like, and they will be assholes smug in their perfect hindsight. I'm confident I won't be around to see it.
Dropping everything, life, job, savings and resources into saving a few polar bears would be about as useless as purposely tracking down and killing one so I can produce pictures of my flipping off the high and mighty enlightened future while munching on a polar bear steak.
You know, I really respect you, but I really fucking hate that mentality.
Really. Fucking hate it.
Was hoping that came across extreme enough the other direction to be satire :|
I see the problem as a more large scale case of humanity needing to stop doing things short term and sloppy. Save a habitat, a species, stop use of a pesticide or pass legislation to reduce emission of a pollutant, it's all striking me as sticking a finger in the dike.
While we're there with our fingers in, someone else looking for a quick solution drills a hole to use it like a water fountain, and walks away leaving their hole open.
We passed laws against using DDT, and what did we get back? Oh, that's right, bald eagles and a number of other raptor species from the brink of extinction.
Yeah, that shit is just like sticking a finger in the dike.
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on February 17, 2010, 09:06:01 PM
Candada
Just wanted to drop in and say that this is the awesomest misspelling since GirClock accidentally called himself GirlCock.
What if we were to give the polar bears jet skis?
Like the old saying, give a polar bear a fish and he eats for one day, give him a jet ski and- OFUK that polar bear has a fucking jet ski!
Quote from: Kai on February 21, 2010, 05:39:08 PM
Quote from: Richter on February 21, 2010, 02:44:32 PM
Quote from: Kai on February 20, 2010, 02:01:29 AM
Quote from: Richter on February 18, 2010, 03:23:56 PM
I refuse to alter my behavior based on the hypothetical stern looks and dissapointed shake of the head from millions of our progeny. They can retroactively damn us if they like, and they will be assholes smug in their perfect hindsight. I'm confident I won't be around to see it.
Dropping everything, life, job, savings and resources into saving a few polar bears would be about as useless as purposely tracking down and killing one so I can produce pictures of my flipping off the high and mighty enlightened future while munching on a polar bear steak.
You know, I really respect you, but I really fucking hate that mentality.
Really. Fucking hate it.
Was hoping that came across extreme enough the other direction to be satire :|
I see the problem as a more large scale case of humanity needing to stop doing things short term and sloppy. Save a habitat, a species, stop use of a pesticide or pass legislation to reduce emission of a pollutant, it's all striking me as sticking a finger in the dike.
While we're there with our fingers in, someone else looking for a quick solution drills a hole to use it like a water fountain, and walks away leaving their hole open.
Poe's law, my friend. Poe's law.
Valid.
Both with you and Nigel, I respect your passion and point of view on this, and i've told you mine.
I'll try to remember to nudge nudge wink wink when I'm having fun satirical prose.
Quote from: Horrendous Foreign Love Stoat on February 22, 2010, 09:38:24 AM
QuoteWe passed laws against using DDT, and what did we get back? Oh, that's right, bald eagles and a number of other raptor species from the brink of extinction.
& malaria.
INSTEAD OF
DDT
TRY
transgenic mosquitoes
~Kai,
Knows that pesticides are a v. strong selective pressure.
Quote from: Horrendous Foreign Liam Stoat on February 22, 2010, 09:38:24 AM
QuoteWe passed laws against using DDT, and what did we get back? Oh, that's right, bald eagles and a number of other raptor species from the brink of extinction.
& malaria.
And West Nile, and bedbugs.
Quote from: Calamity Nigel on February 21, 2010, 06:25:34 PM
We passed laws against using DDT, and what did we get back? Oh, that's right, bald eagles and a number of other raptor species from the brink of extinction.
Yeah, that shit is just like sticking a finger in the dike.
And in the meantime the water is so polluted from industry that we keep losing species of fish.