Fuck you, Utah.
http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/blog/2010/02/19/utah-passes-bill-that-charges-women-for-illegal-abortion-or-miscarriage+
Wow, that's the most horrible and idiotic thing I've heard this year.
MISCARRIAGE!!
I can't actually believe this, even though I know it is probably true, so I am going to stop participating in reality.
Quote from: Sigmatic on February 24, 2010, 10:26:50 PM
I can't actually believe this, even though I know it is probably true, so I am going to stop participating in reality.
That's kind of how I feel about it. Especially after clicking the links in the articles and reading other articles which were at least as disturbing and horrifying.
Quote from: Sigmatic on February 24, 2010, 10:26:50 PM
so I am going to stop participating in reality.
This.
oh and I found the governors contact info in the comments I propose a Jake
Governor Gary Herbert
800-705-2464 ph
gherbert@utah.gov
we are one governor's signature away from it being illegal for a pregnant woman to fall down a staircase!
:horrormirth:
the really disturbing part is, I think the miscarriage aspect is enforceable, so instead of being the usual nonsense anti abortion law this will actually get women who just lost their babies in trouble.
I wonder if every miscarriage will be investigated as a possible crime? Jesus fuck.
lol utah
Also, speaking as a mother who just miscarried triplets, I guess I'm lucky it wasn't six weeks later and in Mormonville.
Now if you'll asscuse me, I have a governor to write--not that he'll giveashit....
Why do we put up with this stuff?
Quote from: Jenne on February 25, 2010, 12:55:24 AM
lol utah
Also, speaking as a mother who just miscarried triplets, I guess I'm lucky it wasn't six weeks later and in Mormonville.
Now if you'll asscuse me, I have a governor to write--not that he'll giveashit....
I had to go find another article and that one said that all stages of the pregnancy are to be "protected." http://www.clevelandleader.com/node/13141
Reading the bill, this doesn't effect abortion. Presumably it doesn't affect miscarriage either (unless caused intentionally), but given that its 13 pages long (I've never seen a non budget Utah bill longer than 4 pages) they must be hiding *something* in there.
Sounds like the "personhood" bills that the anti-choice people keep trying to pass. They failed miserably to pass a referendum in Colorado because most people realized how horrible of an idea it really is.
Anyone know if there's an update on this one? Did it actually go through?
EDIT: nevermind...looks like the governer vetoed it.
http://www.clevelandleader.com/node/13244
gone back to senate to be revised.
:facepalm:
Quote from: Burns on March 10, 2010, 06:49:21 AM
http://www.clevelandleader.com/node/13244
gone back to senate to be revised.
:facepalm:
We kicked the senators out last week (they're only allowed to fuck things up for 45 days, then they get the boot), so its off the table for now.
Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeet.
Quote from: Burns on March 10, 2010, 07:07:51 AM
Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeet.
Or not, they started late, 48 hours till they get the boot. :argh!:
:memnoch2:
Miscarriage is Manslaughter.
Maybe?
Quote from: Sigmatic on February 24, 2010, 10:26:50 PM
I can't actually believe this, even though I know it is probably true, so I am going to stop participating in reality.
I highly endorse this course of action.
The world is full of dumbfuck pricks, and for some reason, we decide to cram them all into elected office. What the fuck America?
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on March 11, 2010, 01:04:04 AM
Quote from: Sigmatic on February 24, 2010, 10:26:50 PM
I can't actually believe this, even though I know it is probably true, so I am going to stop participating in reality.
I highly endorse this course of action.
The world is full of dumbfuck pricks, and for some reason, we decide to cram them all into elected office. What the fuck America?
People want to express what passes for their "outrage", so they can enjoy the illusion that they are more than a zombie in a cube.
So they vote for hair-shirt punishment freaks. It is now impossible to get elected without promising to be "tough on crime", etc, despite the facts that real crime is very low and we already have 25% of the world's convicts, and only 5% of the world's population.
Then they act surprised when 6 year olds are arrested on felony charges for acting out in class.
passed
QuoteUnder House Bill 462, only abortions performed by a doctor through a medical procedure would be legal.
The bill is in response to a case in Uintah County in which prosecutors alleged a pregnant 17-year-old girl paid a man $150 to beat her in an effort to induce a miscarriage.
The version of the bill Herbert signed excludes language in an original version that opponents feared could lead to pregnant women who have natural miscarriages or miscarriages while engaging in activities like skiing being investigated for criminal homicide.
He vetoed that bill Monday in favor of HB 462.
Quote from: -Kel- on March 12, 2010, 04:01:27 PM
passed
QuoteUnder House Bill 462, only abortions performed by a doctor through a medical procedure would be legal.
The bill is in response to a case in Uintah County in which prosecutors alleged a pregnant 17-year-old girl paid a man $150 to beat her in an effort to induce a miscarriage.
The version of the bill Herbert signed excludes language in an original version that opponents feared could lead to pregnant women who have natural miscarriages or miscarriages while engaging in activities like skiing being investigated for criminal homicide.
He vetoed that bill Monday in favor of HB 462.
Well, the bolded statement seems reasonable to me, and it doesn't say anything about something along the lines of "only for health-risk conditions".
Quote from: Mistress Freeky on March 12, 2010, 04:08:30 PM
Quote from: -Kel- on March 12, 2010, 04:01:27 PM
passed
QuoteUnder House Bill 462, only abortions performed by a doctor through a medical procedure would be legal.
The bill is in response to a case in Uintah County in which prosecutors alleged a pregnant 17-year-old girl paid a man $150 to beat her in an effort to induce a miscarriage.
The version of the bill Herbert signed excludes language in an original version that opponents feared could lead to pregnant women who have natural miscarriages or miscarriages while engaging in activities like skiing being investigated for criminal homicide.
He vetoed that bill Monday in favor of HB 462.
Well, the bolded statement seems reasonable to me, and it doesn't say anything about something along the lines of "only for health-risk conditions".
yeah abortion is totally legal here, even minors with adult consent (as with any medical procedure) can have it done.
Quote from: -Kel- on March 12, 2010, 04:13:37 PM
Quote from: Mistress Freeky on March 12, 2010, 04:08:30 PM
Quote from: -Kel- on March 12, 2010, 04:01:27 PM
passed
QuoteUnder House Bill 462, only abortions performed by a doctor through a medical procedure would be legal.
The bill is in response to a case in Uintah County in which prosecutors alleged a pregnant 17-year-old girl paid a man $150 to beat her in an effort to induce a miscarriage.
The version of the bill Herbert signed excludes language in an original version that opponents feared could lead to pregnant women who have natural miscarriages or miscarriages while engaging in activities like skiing being investigated for criminal homicide.
He vetoed that bill Monday in favor of HB 462.
Well, the bolded statement seems reasonable to me, and it doesn't say anything about something along the lines of "only for health-risk conditions".
yeah abortion is totally legal here, even minors with adult consent (as with any medical procedure) can have it done.
Nice.
Quote from: Mistress Freeky on March 12, 2010, 04:08:30 PM
Quote from: -Kel- on March 12, 2010, 04:01:27 PM
passed
QuoteUnder House Bill 462, only abortions performed by a doctor through a medical procedure would be legal.
The bill is in response to a case in Uintah County in which prosecutors alleged a pregnant 17-year-old girl paid a man $150 to beat her in an effort to induce a miscarriage.
The version of the bill Herbert signed excludes language in an original version that opponents feared could lead to pregnant women who have natural miscarriages or miscarriages while engaging in activities like skiing being investigated for criminal homicide.
He vetoed that bill Monday in favor of HB 462.
Well, the bolded statement seems reasonable to me, and it doesn't say anything about something along the lines of "only for health-risk conditions".
Only medical doctors can legally perform surgery, already. What this bill does is criminalize the
patient as well as the unauthorized practitioner. It also, from the wording of it, not only prohibits but
criminalizes chemical abortion.
Also punishes addicts who get pregnant. Who, I must mention at the sake of redundancy, all happen to be female.
Ah? Oh.
Technically, and I know from experience, all miscarriges are termed "abortions". Srsly.
Regardless of what might have caused them. If it can be shown that the mother's habits led to the miscarriage, whether leaping down a flight of stairs headfirst, or shooting heroin, then the mother can be charged with murder if the pregnancy does not take.
Please also note that 1 in 4 pregnancies miscarry, for various reasons.
Yeah. Basically, it's a horrible law with serious potential for misuse, especially in a state that is heavily influenced by a culture that often treats women like chattel whose only value is in bearing children.
Quote from: Calamity Nigel on March 12, 2010, 06:52:29 PM
Yeah. Basically, it's a horrible law with serious potential for misuse, especially in a state that is heavily influenced by a culture that often treats women like chattel whose only value is in bearing children.
ok ok, i think you're going over board here. I was born here and i have lived here most of my life. Women do not get treated like that here.
Quote from: -Kel- on March 12, 2010, 06:58:13 PM
Quote from: Calamity Nigel on March 12, 2010, 06:52:29 PM
Yeah. Basically, it's a horrible law with serious potential for misuse, especially in a state that is heavily influenced by a culture that often treats women like chattel whose only value is in bearing children.
ok ok, i think you're going over board here. I was born here and i have lived here most of my life. Women do not get treated like that here.
Not all women, and certainly it's not common in SLC, which is fairly typical of any large urban area. Rural and small town Utah is another story. My mom's family is from Utah, a fuckton of my friends are from Utah. There ARE polygamist towns in Utah, there ARE Fundamentalist Mormons, there IS the treatment of women as chattel. Those are the areas where this law will be used to abuse/control women; areas where there is already a problem.
Quote from: Calamity Nigel on March 12, 2010, 07:05:26 PM
Not all women, and certainly it's not common in SLC, which is fairly typical of any large urban area. Rural and small town Utah is another story. My mom's family is from Utah, a fuckton of my friends are from Utah. There ARE polygamist towns in Utah,
no shit?! really?!
Quote from: Calamity Nigel on March 12, 2010, 07:05:26 PM
there ARE Fundamentalist Mormons,
OMG!! NO!!!
Quote from: Calamity Nigel on March 12, 2010, 07:05:26 PM
there IS the treatment of women as chattel. Those are the areas where this law will be used to abuse/control women; areas where there is already a problem.
i do live in utah.
most of them are being driven out of utah, and many have moved to AZ and CO.
I have friends who also grew up in fundamental mormon compounds. They escaped but one of the good things the government does here is cracking down on shit like that.
http://www.sltrib.com/polygamy (http://www.sltrib.com/polygamy)
Let's not focus on Utah or Mormonism here.
Let's look at the internet.
Let's look at websites devoted to pregnancy.
A large amount of them are written from a standpoint of "IF YOU HAVE A SINGLE CUP OF COFFEE FROM THE MOMENT OF CONCEPTION, YOU ARE HARMING YOUR BABY!"
Now, re-consider the measure passed, using this kind of mentality.
For some people, who tend to be very loud, they conclude that when a woman is pregnant, they become nothing more than faulty incubators.
Quote from: LMNO on March 12, 2010, 07:27:23 PM
Let's not focus on Utah or Mormonism here.
Let's look at the internet.
Let's look at websites devoted to pregnancy.
A large amount of them are written from a standpoint of "IF YOU HAVE A SINGLE CUP OF COFFEE FROM THE MOMENT OF CONCEPTION, YOU ARE HARMING YOUR BABY!"
Now, re-consider the measure passed, using this kind of mentality.
For some people, who tend to be very loud, they conclude that when a woman is pregnant, they become nothing more than faulty incubators.
thank you. i think Nigel and I agree upon what is going on here but since we are looking at it from different angles we are arguing about stuff that doesn't have too much weight.
I think it's a messed up bill because it can be abused by anyone and this bill was made because a woman here paid a man to beat her in the stomach for $150 so she would mis-carry. He got jail time, she did not.
I don't think this bill should of been passed at all.
It's bad enough as it is for a woman who miscarries. She will have a tendency to question herself anyway. Did she do this wrong, did she do too much of that, not enough of this....
And then for a law to come along and codify and "legitimize" and prosecute that second-guessing.
And there is no shortage of scum-bag lawyers out there who will represent the scum bag husbands/boy-friends or interest groups who want to punish the woman for doing something wrong....
Fucking sad doesn't cover it.
Quote from: LMNO on March 12, 2010, 06:44:53 PM
Technically, and I know from experience, all miscarriges are termed "abortions". Srsly.
Regardless of what might have caused them. If it can be shown that the mother's habits led to the miscarriage, whether leaping down a flight of stairs headfirst, or shooting heroin, then the mother can be charged with murder if the pregnancy does not take.
Please also note that 1 in 4 pregnancies miscarry, for various reasons.
Which is why the 'reckless' part got taken out.