It was announced today that 50 school districts nation-wide, including two in Arizona will be going to a four-day school week. Days will not be lengthened, nor will the school year be extended. The long, slow slide into the slime continues.
How did it happen, Richter? How did we go from being the last, best hope for mankind, to a slow shuffle into third-world status? Sure, I know about the banking crisis, and two endless, meaningless wars that are transferring what's left of the treasury into the pockets of a few fat oligarchs...But why are we putting up with it?
I'd like to think we used to be a bit smarter than this.
And it's not like we weren't warned, right? Ben Franklin was amused and pessimistic, Patrick Henry screamed and hollered, and no matter how long they beat Thomas Paine, he kept yelling until they tipped him into his grave. They even stole his bones, because nobody likes a smartass.
So I'm wondering, Richter, as we continue our slow downward spiral, what Nathan Hale would say today. Was it worth getting hanged over? For that matter, what would John Jay or Curly or Thomas Jefferson say?
Please return your seat to its fully upright position.
Franklin was a hopeless gamer, which should tell us soemthign right form the start. He was a quirky dude too, refusing to dress up fancy, tinkering constantly, and turning out the prose and the good advice.
OK, quick thought back on our all knowing, wise and venerated, noveau enlightenment, altruistic equality hardon founding fathers.
Plantation owners, Merchants, BUISINESSMEN. Like all noveau riche, they stride into the country club, and when faced with somethign they don't GET, holler (none to genteel) "WELL WHEY IN THE HELL DO YOU DO THAT? IT'S SILLY!"
(I'm surpirsed half of them even put on the aprons.)
The teaxes, (I meant to do that.), the troops, they got in their way.
It shat on the people too, sure, but it shat on their bottom line most of all. Maybe things were different, maybe they were still close enough to "Off the boat, let's all survive together or DIE" mentality to see someone having a problem as a problem for them too. I doubt it though. Men are baloney, they will go bad in an HOUR if not properly handled, much less a few generations.
So, they get together. Paine, their pet provocateaur extrordinaire, is all fired up on the cause, and gives them the spin they need. (laugh behind the back, don't let him know the joke.)
...And Franklin gets in on the shit.
He was GOOD, I can't deny that, or dismiss him as a wealthy asshole like the others. So they sent him to France to make nice. Quirky charm, when in the hands of a person who KNOWS how to work it, and network, is a force to eb reconed with. Such a person will onyl work with reason and SOLID logic, and be friends with everyone in the process. They do this by not caring about or being derailed by the personal bit that would make a regular joe kick over the table and leave. They are metagaming people with the ever - changing sourcebooks memorized, and the tenacity to brute force human nature. Reading his stuff, I'm convinced Franklin was this kind of guy.
They HAD to keep him busy enough to not notice the other agenda though.
Maybe I'm being charitable, bt the overal point is the FF's, or most of them, were opportunistic assholes too. No stock market to tank and get rich off back then, so they had to take a peice out of a wealthy Imperialist scheme instead.
Anyways, off the tangent.
You told me once that people don't see long term, and you're right.
They say "Be fruitful and multiply" in church so their collection paltes will swell in 30 years. They don't see populations out of hand in 100 years. The roads can go to shit if the industrial park that gets them rich in 5 will get built instead. The schools can grind to a screechign stop as long as we fund a private contract for a shiny new special purpose uber - bunker - fucker for terrorists who will NEVER be able to strike this country again as badly as they already have.
(THAT'S RIGHT JACKHOLES! NO MORE FUCKIGN THREAT. THE TALIBAN IS IN A FUCKING HOLE IN THE HIGH COLD ASS OF ASIA. WE CAN WALK AWAY FROM THEM NOW. THEY HAD TO JACK OUR STUFF TO DO ANYTHIGN TO US, AND WE'RE NOT EVEN LETTING OUR OWN GOOD GUYS HAVE IT ANYMORE.)
Crisis sell, crisis secures elections. If the miltary keeps blowing away sand dunes, the guys up top keep getting the handouts.
Even pop music assholes realized what we could do if our miltary was repurposed to patching up the USA. All the Apaches and Harriers they have could have plugged New Orleans up in a DAY.
The message I think will carry it? US FIRST.
NO playing Commando Jimminy Cricket to the world.
NO propping up new nations in our image.
NO obtuse ventures to build tech that no one else will counter for at least 30 years.
Infrastructure (Roads, utilities, production capability)
Education (k-12 through Bachelors)
Service (Fire / Med / Police / clinics)
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 08, 2010, 03:52:55 PM
It was announced today that 50 school districts nation-wide, including two in Arizona will be going to a four-day school week. Days will not be lengthened, nor will the school year be extended. The long, slow slide into the slime continues.
you made me shit myself! i had to look up if SLC school district was going to pull that, thank god they're not. We have this asshat trying to take away the 12th grade here.
i have everyone. :D
Quote from: -Kel- on March 08, 2010, 05:03:24 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 08, 2010, 03:52:55 PM
It was announced today that 50 school districts nation-wide, including two in Arizona will be going to a four-day school week. Days will not be lengthened, nor will the school year be extended. The long, slow slide into the slime continues.
you made me shit myself! i had to look up if SLC school district was going to pull that, thank god they're not. We have this asshat trying to take away the 12th grade here.
i have everyone. :D
Illinois is considering removing the junior and senior year both.
RICHTER: It's going to take a while to respond to those. Wow.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 08, 2010, 05:17:11 PM
Quote from: -Kel- on March 08, 2010, 05:03:24 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 08, 2010, 03:52:55 PM
It was announced today that 50 school districts nation-wide, including two in Arizona will be going to a four-day school week. Days will not be lengthened, nor will the school year be extended. The long, slow slide into the slime continues.
you made me shit myself! i had to look up if SLC school district was going to pull that, thank god they're not. We have this asshat trying to take away the 12th grade here.
i have everyone. :D
Illinois is considering removing the junior and senior year both.
WHAT
What the hell are these kids going to do? Getting into college is going to be such a bitch for these kids.
Quote from: Demon Sheep on March 08, 2010, 08:43:31 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 08, 2010, 05:17:11 PM
Quote from: -Kel- on March 08, 2010, 05:03:24 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 08, 2010, 03:52:55 PM
It was announced today that 50 school districts nation-wide, including two in Arizona will be going to a four-day school week. Days will not be lengthened, nor will the school year be extended. The long, slow slide into the slime continues.
you made me shit myself! i had to look up if SLC school district was going to pull that, thank god they're not. We have this asshat trying to take away the 12th grade here.
i have everyone. :D
Illinois is considering removing the junior and senior year both.
WHAT
What the hell are these kids going to do? Getting into college is going to be such a bitch for these kids.
There's always the cannonfodder option.
Quote from: Richter on March 08, 2010, 05:01:01 PM
Anyways, off the tangent.
You told me once that people don't see long term, and you're right.
They say "Be fruitful and multiply" in church so their collection paltes will swell in 30 years. They don't see populations out of hand in 100 years. The roads can go to shit if the industrial park that gets them rich in 5 will get built instead. The schools can grind to a screechign stop as long as we fund a private contract for a shiny new special purpose uber - bunker - fucker for terrorists who will NEVER be able to strike this country again as badly as they already have.
(THAT'S RIGHT JACKHOLES! NO MORE FUCKIGN THREAT. THE TALIBAN IS IN A FUCKING HOLE IN THE HIGH COLD ASS OF ASIA. WE CAN WALK AWAY FROM THEM NOW. THEY HAD TO JACK OUR STUFF TO DO ANYTHIGN TO US, AND WE'RE NOT EVEN LETTING OUR OWN GOOD GUYS HAVE IT ANYMORE.)
Crisis sell, crisis secures elections. If the miltary keeps blowing away sand dunes, the guys up top keep getting the handouts.
Even pop music assholes realized what we could do if our miltary was repurposed to patching up the USA. All the Apaches and Harriers they have could have plugged New Orleans up in a DAY.
The message I think will carry it? US FIRST.
NO playing Commando Jimminy Cricket to the world.
NO propping up new nations in our image.
NO obtuse ventures to build tech that no one else will counter for at least 30 years.
Infrastructure (Roads, utilities, production capability)
Education (k-12 through Bachelors)
Service (Fire / Med / Police / clinics)
:mittens: Isolationist, yes. But also sort of a "Survival Guide for the Endtimes American" as well.
I'm not saying isolation in the "Only USA for ever and ever", mindset. We're overextended, and ought to pull back for awhile to get our own house in order.
Humanitarian aid, by all means should still happen, but who's the priority?
I learned that my second high school has already started this process. Two Fridays a month are "Furlough Days".
I think I'm gonna barf.
Quote from: Cainad on March 08, 2010, 09:27:15 PM
I learned that my second high school has already started this process. Two Fridays a month are "Furlough Days".
I think I'm gonna barf.
*sploosh*
My old school district is just slashing jobs. Seventeen positions from my high school alone.
Dok--link for Illinois?
Edited because I'm developing OCD about word choice
I'm gonna homeschool. :sad:
This, and all the bullshit people get for parenting like PARENTS makes me think twice about spawning.
Quote from: Mistress Freeky on March 08, 2010, 09:35:54 PM
I'm gonna homeschool. :sad:
I totally agree. Ive got a pretty good idea how well public schooling works, and I think I (and maybe tutors here and there) can do better. Not only can I do better than most algebra teachers (partly due to their split attention), but homeschooling would be a good way to bond with my kid (in theory; no existing contingencies exist).
Quote from: Richter on March 08, 2010, 09:39:00 PM
This, and all the bullshit people get for parenting like PARENTS makes me think twice about spawning.
Yes, but you also get a pretty badass cape and chains:
(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/1811/spawncomiccover150bcl.jpg)
Did I mention glowing eyes?
Quote from: Ne+@uNGr0+ on March 08, 2010, 10:23:35 PM
Quote from: Richter on March 08, 2010, 09:39:00 PM
This, and all the bullshit people get for parenting like PARENTS makes me think twice about spawning.
Yes, but you also get a pretty badass cape and chains:
(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/1811/spawncomiccover150bcl.jpg)
Did I mention glowing eyes?
In that case we'd go nontraditional. The world needs more dark warriors, so by forbidden acts of dark congress, my mate and I would fuse our dark energies and bring forth a new fully formed, fully trained hero to fight alongside us, and learn about the nature of life or hold down a hillarious minor job with wacky cohorts the rest of the time.
:x
Quote from: Sigmatic on March 08, 2010, 09:56:56 PM
Quote from: Mistress Freeky on March 08, 2010, 09:35:54 PM
I'm gonna homeschool. :sad:
I totally agree. Ive got a pretty good idea how well public schooling works, and I think I (and maybe tutors here and there) can do better. Not only can I do better than most algebra teachers (partly due to their split attention), but homeschooling would be a good way to bond with my kid (in theory; no existing contingencies exist).
I don't know how well I'd be able to teach upper level math, but I can do reading and writing skills like nobody's business.
our school districts are doing it to. Not my old one, but another local one is doing furlough days.
Quote from: Mistress Freeky on March 09, 2010, 12:22:20 AM
Quote from: Sigmatic on March 08, 2010, 09:56:56 PM
Quote from: Mistress Freeky on March 08, 2010, 09:35:54 PM
I'm gonna homeschool. :sad:
I totally agree. Ive got a pretty good idea how well public schooling works, and I think I (and maybe tutors here and there) can do better. Not only can I do better than most algebra teachers (partly due to their split attention), but homeschooling would be a good way to bond with my kid (in theory; no existing contingencies exist).
I don't know how well I'd be able to teach upper level math, but I can do reading and writing skills like nobody's business.
When your kid gets to that point, send him to community college.
Quote from: Calamity Nigel on March 09, 2010, 05:23:52 PM
Quote from: Mistress Freeky on March 09, 2010, 12:22:20 AM
Quote from: Sigmatic on March 08, 2010, 09:56:56 PM
Quote from: Mistress Freeky on March 08, 2010, 09:35:54 PM
I'm gonna homeschool. :sad:
I totally agree. Ive got a pretty good idea how well public schooling works, and I think I (and maybe tutors here and there) can do better. Not only can I do better than most algebra teachers (partly due to their split attention), but homeschooling would be a good way to bond with my kid (in theory; no existing contingencies exist).
I don't know how well I'd be able to teach upper level math, but I can do reading and writing skills like nobody's business.
When your kid gets to that point, send him to community college.
*IF* your state allows for that. Mine doesn't. You have to 18 or have graduated to go.
Quote from: Richter on March 08, 2010, 09:20:39 PM
I'm not saying isolation in the "Only USA for ever and ever", mindset. We're overextended, and ought to pull back for awhile to get our own house in order.
Humanitarian aid, by all means should still happen, but who's the priority?
You ain't gettin' no argument from me, Son. ;) I wish we had the REALLY FOR REAL Democrats in power, and not these assholes who are continuing the chimera of hegemony.
Quote from: Sigmatic on March 08, 2010, 09:56:56 PM
Quote from: Mistress Freeky on March 08, 2010, 09:35:54 PM
I'm gonna homeschool. :sad:
I totally agree. Ive got a pretty good idea how well public schooling works, and I think I (and maybe tutors here and there) can do better. Not only can I do better than most algebra teachers (partly due to their split attention), but homeschooling would be a good way to bond with my kid (in theory; no existing contingencies exist).
Yeah, homeschooling SOUNDS good in theory, not always the best way to go socially for a kid, though. If you socialize them elsewhere, not always so bad. I'm also willing to bet this pendulum will swing the other way eventually, too. Just not soon enough to suit anyone who gives a shit is all.
Quote from: Jenne on March 09, 2010, 05:39:56 PM
Quote from: Richter on March 08, 2010, 09:20:39 PM
I'm not saying isolation in the "Only USA for ever and ever", mindset. We're overextended, and ought to pull back for awhile to get our own house in order.
Humanitarian aid, by all means should still happen, but who's the priority?
You ain't gettin' no argument from me, Son. ;) I wish we had the REALLY FOR REAL Democrats in power, and not these assholes who are continuing the chimera of hegemony.
I'm convinced that a step is to make politicing less lucrative. More community service, less country club.
(Key word there: SERVICE. it should be a service a person is doing for their view of the betterment of the nation, not a way to make money.)
This all goes back to NCLB, standardized testing and the costs thereof. I got fucking LUCKY because I graduated high school, in Florida, with Honors, before all that shit went down. My brother was pretty much forced to drop out of high school in Rhode Island and my sister took the smart way out and went Vo-Tech.
I really want my brother to get his diploma or at least a GED, because his brain is more than college-worthy (he took the SAT prior to the addition of writing and got almost a 1400, the kid is near-genius but SEVERE textbook ADHD), but I think he knows that he's better than all that bullshit and is one day going to hit it big as a chef, so no worries there.
My sister, she cuts hair for Major League Baseball players and will be eligible to join the MLB union in a couple of years, after which she will be set for life.
Me? Well, we all know what bullshit I'm going through right now.
As much as I'm against school actions these days, sometimes I wonder how valuable that piece of paper is anyway.
Also, I don't agree with homeschooling, I've seen end results and they aren't always good. Part of going to school is the social interaction, if you take that way from your child, he/she may not have the skills necessary to even deal with job interviews, and often turn into spoiled brats who don't understand why they can't get what they want when they want it. I'm not saying this will happen to everyone, but it's disheartening.
If I have kids, they're going in public school, and I will chain to them kitchen table until homework is done, and I will check it over, and I will do everything my parents did to make sure that as students they are successful. If the school can't do it, then the parent has to. When the parents care little about their child's education, that's when even the most reputable of school can't help. Be the parent to drive your kids through school, they will hate you, but then be VERY thankful in the end.
Quote from: Richter on March 09, 2010, 05:52:42 PM
Quote from: Jenne on March 09, 2010, 05:39:56 PM
Quote from: Richter on March 08, 2010, 09:20:39 PM
I'm not saying isolation in the "Only USA for ever and ever", mindset. We're overextended, and ought to pull back for awhile to get our own house in order.
Humanitarian aid, by all means should still happen, but who's the priority?
You ain't gettin' no argument from me, Son. ;) I wish we had the REALLY FOR REAL Democrats in power, and not these assholes who are continuing the chimera of hegemony.
I'm convinced that a step is to make politicing less lucrative. More community service, less country club.
(Key word there: SERVICE. it should be a service a person is doing for their view of the betterment of the nation, not a way to make money.)
Hear hear!
Agreement, 169%, yo. Hard to legislate, but man, we could use the promotion.
Quote from: Suu on March 09, 2010, 05:54:34 PM
This all goes back to NCLB, standardized testing and the costs thereof. I got fucking LUCKY because I graduated high school, in Florida, with Honors, before all that shit went down. My brother was pretty much forced to drop out of high school in Rhode Island and my sister took the smart way out and went Vo-Tech.
I really want my brother to get his diploma or at least a GED, because his brain is more than college-worthy (he took the SAT prior to the addition of writing and got almost a 1400, the kid is near-genius but SEVERE textbook ADHD), but I think he knows that he's better than all that bullshit and is one day going to hit it big as a chef, so no worries there.
My sister, she cuts hair for Major League Baseball players and will be eligible to join the MLB union in a couple of years, after which she will be set for life.
Me? Well, we all know what bullshit I'm going through right now.
As much as I'm against school actions these days, sometimes I wonder how valuable that piece of paper is anyway.
Also, I don't agree with homeschooling, I've seen end results and they aren't always good. Part of going to school is the social interaction, if you take that way from your child, he/she may not have the skills necessary to even deal with job interviews, and often turn into spoiled brats who don't understand why they can't get what they want when they want it. I'm not saying this will happen to everyone, but it's disheartening.
If I have kids, they're going in public school, and I will chain to them kitchen table until homework is done, and I will check it over, and I will do everything my parents did to make sure that as students they are successful. If the school can't do it, then the parent has to. When the parents care little about their child's education, that's when even the most reputable of school can't help. Be the parent to drive your kids through school, they will hate you, but then be VERY thankful in the end.
TITCM.
That's my method.
Mine, too. That and we moved heaven and earf to move to a neighborhood with the awesomest schools in the county.
Quote from: Demon Sheep on March 09, 2010, 05:28:37 PM
Quote from: Calamity Nigel on March 09, 2010, 05:23:52 PM
Quote from: Mistress Freeky on March 09, 2010, 12:22:20 AM
Quote from: Sigmatic on March 08, 2010, 09:56:56 PM
Quote from: Mistress Freeky on March 08, 2010, 09:35:54 PM
I'm gonna homeschool. :sad:
I totally agree. Ive got a pretty good idea how well public schooling works, and I think I (and maybe tutors here and there) can do better. Not only can I do better than most algebra teachers (partly due to their split attention), but homeschooling would be a good way to bond with my kid (in theory; no existing contingencies exist).
I don't know how well I'd be able to teach upper level math, but I can do reading and writing skills like nobody's business.
When your kid gets to that point, send him to community college.
*IF* your state allows for that. Mine doesn't. You have to 18 or have graduated to go.
WTF?
I've never heard of something that stupid. I know that in Oregon, Washington and California, you can take college courses and simultaneously earn college and high school credits. It's common for AP and homeschooled kids.
Quote from: Calamity Nigel on March 09, 2010, 06:56:09 PM
Quote from: Demon Sheep on March 09, 2010, 05:28:37 PM
Quote from: Calamity Nigel on March 09, 2010, 05:23:52 PM
Quote from: Mistress Freeky on March 09, 2010, 12:22:20 AM
Quote from: Sigmatic on March 08, 2010, 09:56:56 PM
Quote from: Mistress Freeky on March 08, 2010, 09:35:54 PM
I'm gonna homeschool. :sad:
I totally agree. Ive got a pretty good idea how well public schooling works, and I think I (and maybe tutors here and there) can do better. Not only can I do better than most algebra teachers (partly due to their split attention), but homeschooling would be a good way to bond with my kid (in theory; no existing contingencies exist).
I don't know how well I'd be able to teach upper level math, but I can do reading and writing skills like nobody's business.
When your kid gets to that point, send him to community college.
*IF* your state allows for that. Mine doesn't. You have to 18 or have graduated to go.
WTF?
I've never heard of something that stupid.
Illinois is that way (at least it was during the 80s), and I'm fairly certain AZ is, too.
The only way I could go to community or junior college in high school was if I was in dual enrollment...through a public or private high school, not via home school.
That is unbelievably retarded. :lulz: What is the rationale for it?
Quote from: Calamity Nigel on March 09, 2010, 06:58:25 PM
That is unbelievably retarded. :lulz: What is the rationale for it?
Dunno. Maybe to keep kids from dropping out of HS to attend CC.
Specifically, IL's policy was 18 years old or your class must have graduated.
Quote from: Calamity Nigel on March 09, 2010, 06:58:25 PM
That is unbelievably retarded. :lulz: What is the rationale for it?
Well, chances are good it's not for educational reasons...
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 09, 2010, 07:00:13 PM
Quote from: Calamity Nigel on March 09, 2010, 06:58:25 PM
That is unbelievably retarded. :lulz: What is the rationale for it?
Dunno. Maybe to keep kids from dropping out of HS to attend CC.
Specifically, IL's policy was 18 years old or your class must have graduated.
I know you can attend Pima CC if you're still in High school.
Quote from: Mistress Freeky on March 09, 2010, 07:04:48 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 09, 2010, 07:00:13 PM
Quote from: Calamity Nigel on March 09, 2010, 06:58:25 PM
That is unbelievably retarded. :lulz: What is the rationale for it?
Dunno. Maybe to keep kids from dropping out of HS to attend CC.
Specifically, IL's policy was 18 years old or your class must have graduated.
I know you can attend Pima CC if you're still in High school.
Okay, is that dual enrollment, or open enrollment? Not sure about AZ.
Dual enrollment is a recent-ish phenomenon, iirc. Not all state junior colleges allow it maybe due to enrollment caps. Also, there might be a disconnect in curricular issues as well.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 09, 2010, 07:06:39 PM
Quote from: Mistress Freeky on March 09, 2010, 07:04:48 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 09, 2010, 07:00:13 PM
Quote from: Calamity Nigel on March 09, 2010, 06:58:25 PM
That is unbelievably retarded. :lulz: What is the rationale for it?
Dunno. Maybe to keep kids from dropping out of HS to attend CC.
Specifically, IL's policy was 18 years old or your class must have graduated.
I know you can attend Pima CC if you're still in High school.
Okay, is that dual enrollment, or open enrollment? Not sure about AZ.
I'll take a look.
Quote from: Calamity Nigel on March 09, 2010, 06:58:25 PM
That is unbelievably retarded. :lulz: What is the rationale for it?
Superficially, yeah, kids who can do college level work SHOULD be able to. Doesn't automatically equate to having them at the college as a BETTER alternative though. Making AP courses available is a definite, but I have questions about the CC option
Are they going to respond well to a more open college class structure of lectures then study and review on their own? Some might thrive in it, some might not. Like Suu pointed out, without the disipline / expectation in the home for the kid to do their work, almsot any education could be pretty useless.
Is this going to b eclusive to high performers? I can see both situations where bored behavior problems thrive in a more self guided structure, and how schools might start to see the CC as a dumping ground for behavior problems in general. I've seen public schools try every form of coddling, deal making, and pass - off to "accomodate" shitheads.
Quote from: Richter on March 09, 2010, 07:12:08 PM
Quote from: Calamity Nigel on March 09, 2010, 06:58:25 PM
That is unbelievably retarded. :lulz: What is the rationale for it?
Superficially, yeah, kids who can do college level work SHOULD be able to. Doesn't automatically equate to having them at the college as a BETTER alternative though. Making AP courses available is a definite, but I have questions about the CC option
Are they going to respond well to a more open college class structure of lectures then study and review on their own? Some might thrive in it, some might not. Like Suu pointed out, without the disipline / expectation in the home for the kid to do their work, almsot any education could be pretty useless.
Is this going to b eclusive to high performers? I can see both situations where bored behavior problems thrive in a more self guided structure, and how schools might start to see the CC as a dumping ground for behavior problems in general. I've seen public schools try every form of coddling, deal making, and pass - off to "accomodate" shitheads.
I think the h.s. folks who are allowed dual enrollment have to have a certain GPA maintained or a certain number of h.s. equivalencies already in their back pockets. This precludes a lot of the above. There's a PTA article on this somewhere t hat I can dig up for you. I actually wrote an article for my own SD County PTAs on this very subject.
Quote from: Mistress Freeky on March 09, 2010, 07:11:34 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 09, 2010, 07:06:39 PM
Quote from: Mistress Freeky on March 09, 2010, 07:04:48 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 09, 2010, 07:00:13 PM
Quote from: Calamity Nigel on March 09, 2010, 06:58:25 PM
That is unbelievably retarded. :lulz: What is the rationale for it?
Dunno. Maybe to keep kids from dropping out of HS to attend CC.
Specifically, IL's policy was 18 years old or your class must have graduated.
I know you can attend Pima CC if you're still in High school.
Okay, is that dual enrollment, or open enrollment? Not sure about AZ.
I'll take a look.
Anyone 16 and under has to get special permission from the Dean. That's all.
http://pta.org/2431.htm
Here. That's the article. I referenced it in my own "college readiness" article. So it seems they are revolutionizing this whole process to a large extent, as well, to offer it to folks who aren't always university track as well.
ETA: When I taught at UCLA, I found the folks that'd started out in h.s. in the community college courses were often harder working and took their college learning more seriously. Same when I student taught at Santa Monica Community College.
Rule in my county in Florida was in order to go to SPJC (Now St. Petersburg College) you had to have had at least a GED, or be over the age of 16 and in a district-approved dual enrollment course. You couldn't skip high school to go or come from a homeschool background unless it was an approved course. It makes sense to me. Homeschooling is too risky. How do you know the parent isn't just sending in A's so their kid can pass? It's happened before. Some 13 year old girl was doing graduate school from home and was supposedly some sort of genius thanks to the magic of homeschooling and it turned out that the parents were just sending in the tests with the right answers.
Quote from: LMNO on March 09, 2010, 07:00:53 PM
Quote from: Calamity Nigel on March 09, 2010, 06:58:25 PM
That is unbelievably retarded. :lulz: What is the rationale for it?
Well, chances are good it's not for educational reasons...
That's what I'm thinking.
Because, god forbid kids get a college education EARLY or anything! I bet it has to do with public school funding. As soon as a kid realizes that college is more fun, more interesting, and more flexible, they'd do that, which is one less warm body and so many dollars less funding for that high school.
Quote from: Calamity Nigel on March 09, 2010, 08:58:25 PM
Quote from: LMNO on March 09, 2010, 07:00:53 PM
Quote from: Calamity Nigel on March 09, 2010, 06:58:25 PM
That is unbelievably retarded. :lulz: What is the rationale for it?
Well, chances are good it's not for educational reasons...
That's what I'm thinking.
Because, god forbid kids get a college education EARLY or anything! I bet it has to do with public school funding. As soon as a kid realizes that college is more fun, more interesting, and more flexible, they'd do that, which is one less warm body and so many dollars less funding for that high school.
That's what I did. :oops:
Quote from: Suu on March 09, 2010, 07:33:12 PM
Rule in my county in Florida was in order to go to SPJC (Now St. Petersburg College) you had to have had at least a GED, or be over the age of 16 and in a district-approved dual enrollment course. You couldn't skip high school to go or come from a homeschool background unless it was an approved course. It makes sense to me. Homeschooling is too risky. How do you know the parent isn't just sending in A's so their kid can pass? It's happened before. Some 13 year old girl was doing graduate school from home and was supposedly some sort of genius thanks to the magic of homeschooling and it turned out that the parents were just sending in the tests with the right answers.
That's really just shortchanging the kid.
As far as I know, PCC has always accepted students of any age as long as they meet the prereqs or test in. It doesn't seem to be causing any problems. If someone gets into a class they aren't ready for, they do what unprepared students everywhere have been doing for centuries; they drop it.
Quote from: Nast on March 09, 2010, 09:03:06 PM
Quote from: Calamity Nigel on March 09, 2010, 08:58:25 PM
Quote from: LMNO on March 09, 2010, 07:00:53 PM
Quote from: Calamity Nigel on March 09, 2010, 06:58:25 PM
That is unbelievably retarded. :lulz: What is the rationale for it?
Well, chances are good it's not for educational reasons...
That's what I'm thinking.
Because, god forbid kids get a college education EARLY or anything! I bet it has to do with public school funding. As soon as a kid realizes that college is more fun, more interesting, and more flexible, they'd do that, which is one less warm body and so many dollars less funding for that high school.
That's what I did. :oops:
That's what my FBF did too, when she was a kid in Santa Monica. EFO is already talking about doing it. It just makes good sense.
Quote from: Calamity Nigel on March 09, 2010, 06:56:09 PM
Quote from: Demon Sheep on March 09, 2010, 05:28:37 PM
Quote from: Calamity Nigel on March 09, 2010, 05:23:52 PM
Quote from: Mistress Freeky on March 09, 2010, 12:22:20 AM
Quote from: Sigmatic on March 08, 2010, 09:56:56 PM
Quote from: Mistress Freeky on March 08, 2010, 09:35:54 PM
I'm gonna homeschool. :sad:
I totally agree. Ive got a pretty good idea how well public schooling works, and I think I (and maybe tutors here and there) can do better. Not only can I do better than most algebra teachers (partly due to their split attention), but homeschooling would be a good way to bond with my kid (in theory; no existing contingencies exist).
I don't know how well I'd be able to teach upper level math, but I can do reading and writing skills like nobody's business.
When your kid gets to that point, send him to community college.
*IF* your state allows for that. Mine doesn't. You have to 18 or have graduated to go.
WTF?
I've never heard of something that stupid. I know that in Oregon, Washington and California, you can take college courses and simultaneously earn college and high school credits. It's common for AP and homeschooled kids.
Dual enrollment is allowed, in either CC or a four-year university. But dropping out of regular high school to attend a community college is not. Here in California, anyway.
And you're probably right on the community funding being the reason it's not done.
Quote from: Calamity Nigel on March 09, 2010, 09:05:07 PM
Quote from: Suu on March 09, 2010, 07:33:12 PM
Rule in my county in Florida was in order to go to SPJC (Now St. Petersburg College) you had to have had at least a GED, or be over the age of 16 and in a district-approved dual enrollment course. You couldn't skip high school to go or come from a homeschool background unless it was an approved course. It makes sense to me. Homeschooling is too risky. How do you know the parent isn't just sending in A's so their kid can pass? It's happened before. Some 13 year old girl was doing graduate school from home and was supposedly some sort of genius thanks to the magic of homeschooling and it turned out that the parents were just sending in the tests with the right answers.
That's really just shortchanging the kid.
As far as I know, PCC has always accepted students of any age as long as they meet the prereqs or test in. It doesn't seem to be causing any problems. If someone gets into a class they aren't ready for, they do what unprepared students everywhere have been doing for centuries; they drop it.
My high school had plenty of options including AP and DE courses, which were available on the taxpayer's dime as long as you still attended school. Why PAY for the credits by sending your teen to CC instead of high school when they should be able to earn them there?
Pulling kids out of high school to get an early start on college isn't going to help things in the long run, it's going to hurt them. High schools need money, regardless if your kid is going there or not, you're allowing other kids who are equally as deserving of a good education yet who aren't as fortunate to have funding to attend community college to get the short end of the stick by removing your child and therefore removing valuable tax dollars from the school.
Education won't get better if we run away from it.
This is the correct answer. Fix it, don't flee from it.
Quote from: Suu on March 09, 2010, 09:12:07 PM
Quote from: Calamity Nigel on March 09, 2010, 09:05:07 PM
Quote from: Suu on March 09, 2010, 07:33:12 PM
Rule in my county in Florida was in order to go to SPJC (Now St. Petersburg College) you had to have had at least a GED, or be over the age of 16 and in a district-approved dual enrollment course. You couldn't skip high school to go or come from a homeschool background unless it was an approved course. It makes sense to me. Homeschooling is too risky. How do you know the parent isn't just sending in A's so their kid can pass? It's happened before. Some 13 year old girl was doing graduate school from home and was supposedly some sort of genius thanks to the magic of homeschooling and it turned out that the parents were just sending in the tests with the right answers.
That's really just shortchanging the kid.
As far as I know, PCC has always accepted students of any age as long as they meet the prereqs or test in. It doesn't seem to be causing any problems. If someone gets into a class they aren't ready for, they do what unprepared students everywhere have been doing for centuries; they drop it.
My high school had plenty of options including AP and DE courses, which were available on the taxpayer's dime as long as you still attended school. Why PAY for the credits by sending your teen to CC instead of high school when they should be able to earn them there?
Pulling kids out of high school to get an early start on college isn't going to help things in the long run, it's going to hurt them. High schools need money, regardless if your kid is going there or not, you're allowing other kids who are equally as deserving of a good education yet who aren't as fortunate to have funding to attend community college to get the short end of the stick by removing your child and therefore removing valuable tax dollars from the school.
Education won't get better if we run away from it.
I'm not THAT much of a communist. If my kid is academically ready and wants to, I am not going to make them suffer on the principle that it might benefit some other kids. For that matter, I pay my property taxes; the money is still in the pool regardless of what school she goes to, it just gets distributed differently. If she's NOT in that high school using its resources, they don't need funding for that warm body, do they?
In fact, letting my kid attend community college means that the education system in my area is benefitting twice.
Call me selfish, but as long as it doesn't directly harm anyone else I'm going to do what's best for MY kid's education. Because I am a good mother.
If the school in your neighborhood is shit and people get stabbed on the playground, do you send your kid there anyway or do you transfer out? Because, if you send your kid there, they get more funding and it might help improve conditions for all the other kids... besides, if your kid is doing OK academically it will bring up the school's scores, and then they'll get even more funding.
You should do the right thing for the hive, even at the expense of your child.
Quote from: Calamity Nigel on March 09, 2010, 09:23:52 PM
If the school in your neighborhood is shit and people get stabbed on the playground, do you send your kid there anyway or do you transfer out? Because, if you send your kid there, they get more funding and it might help improve conditions for all the other kids... besides, if your kid is doing OK academically it will bring up the school's scores, and then they'll get even more funding.
You should do the right thing for the hive, even at the expense of your child.
Not gonna lie to you...I live where I do because it's the best school system in this part of the country. :lulz:
However, when the Calvinist spags decide to try to change the curriculum, I get involved, rather than withdrawing my kids from the school. If they outright win and change it, then I will probably cut my losses and send my kids to a private school.
Quote from: Demon Sheep on March 09, 2010, 09:08:47 PM
Quote from: Calamity Nigel on March 09, 2010, 06:56:09 PM
Quote from: Demon Sheep on March 09, 2010, 05:28:37 PM
Quote from: Calamity Nigel on March 09, 2010, 05:23:52 PM
Quote from: Mistress Freeky on March 09, 2010, 12:22:20 AM
Quote from: Sigmatic on March 08, 2010, 09:56:56 PM
Quote from: Mistress Freeky on March 08, 2010, 09:35:54 PM
I'm gonna homeschool. :sad:
I totally agree. Ive got a pretty good idea how well public schooling works, and I think I (and maybe tutors here and there) can do better. Not only can I do better than most algebra teachers (partly due to their split attention), but homeschooling would be a good way to bond with my kid (in theory; no existing contingencies exist).
I don't know how well I'd be able to teach upper level math, but I can do reading and writing skills like nobody's business.
When your kid gets to that point, send him to community college.
*IF* your state allows for that. Mine doesn't. You have to 18 or have graduated to go.
WTF?
I've never heard of something that stupid. I know that in Oregon, Washington and California, you can take college courses and simultaneously earn college and high school credits. It's common for AP and homeschooled kids.
Dual enrollment is allowed, in either CC or a four-year university. But dropping out of regular high school to attend a community college is not. Here in California, anyway.
And you're probably right on the community funding being the reason it's not done.
NOT true for CA. CC's will take you, GED or not. ETA: but you may be right about the 18 years old thing, I haven't checked. I just know you don't HAVE to be 18 nor do you need a GED, as for the either/or, not sure.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 09, 2010, 09:28:38 PM
Quote from: Calamity Nigel on March 09, 2010, 09:23:52 PM
If the school in your neighborhood is shit and people get stabbed on the playground, do you send your kid there anyway or do you transfer out? Because, if you send your kid there, they get more funding and it might help improve conditions for all the other kids... besides, if your kid is doing OK academically it will bring up the school's scores, and then they'll get even more funding.
You should do the right thing for the hive, even at the expense of your child.
Not gonna lie to you...I live where I do because it's the best school system in this part of the country. :lulz:
However, when the Calvinist spags decide to try to change the curriculum, I get involved, rather than withdrawing my kids from the school. If they outright win and change it, then I will probably cut my losses and send my kids to a private school.
Being involved is key for kids to do well, regardless. But my point is, if your kid WANTS to attend CC, and is capable, are you seriously going to tell them no just because then their public school funding gets put back in the public school pool instead of specifically going to your kid's high school?
"Sorry Junior, I know you wanted to study hard and fast-track your college career, but that would take your warm-body funding out of the local high school, so I'm afraid you're going to have to be bored and unhappy for two more years. Get used to it; life is tedium punctuated by a series of disappointments, and we can't have you expecting any better. Stick it out, Tiger!"
Quote from: Calamity Nigel on March 09, 2010, 09:50:28 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 09, 2010, 09:28:38 PM
Quote from: Calamity Nigel on March 09, 2010, 09:23:52 PM
If the school in your neighborhood is shit and people get stabbed on the playground, do you send your kid there anyway or do you transfer out? Because, if you send your kid there, they get more funding and it might help improve conditions for all the other kids... besides, if your kid is doing OK academically it will bring up the school's scores, and then they'll get even more funding.
You should do the right thing for the hive, even at the expense of your child.
Not gonna lie to you...I live where I do because it's the best school system in this part of the country. :lulz:
However, when the Calvinist spags decide to try to change the curriculum, I get involved, rather than withdrawing my kids from the school. If they outright win and change it, then I will probably cut my losses and send my kids to a private school.
Being involved is key for kids to do well, regardless. But my point is, if your kid WANTS to attend CC, and is capable, are you seriously going to tell them no just because then their public school funding gets put back in the public school pool instead of specifically going to your kid's high school?
"Sorry Junior, I know you wanted to study hard and fast-track your college career, but that would take your warm-body funding out of the local high school, so I'm afraid you're going to have to be bored and unhappy for two more years. Get used to it; life is tedium punctuated by a series of disappointments, and we can't have you expecting any better. Stick it out, Tiger!"
No, of course not.
I'm saving that kind of horrible shit for later.
Quote from: Calamity Nigel on March 09, 2010, 09:23:52 PM
If the school in your neighborhood is shit and people get stabbed on the playground, do you send your kid there anyway or do you transfer out? Because, if you send your kid there, they get more funding and it might help improve conditions for all the other kids... besides, if your kid is doing OK academically it will bring up the school's scores, and then they'll get even more funding.
You should do the right thing for the hive, even at the expense of your child.
I went to an urban high school. There were stabbings, rapes, etc. I did FINE. I also had the benefit of art and music education, which high schools are losing left and right because of that lack of funding, because of those parents that are putting their children in private institutions and the schools can't afford it anymore. But you're mixing apples and oranges here, you're talking about pulling your child out of public school because she's smart, not transferring her from a different school because it's dangerous.
If I have children, they're going all the way through public high school, I won't bother with the hometeaching bullshit and I sure as hell won't put them in a private school where teachers don't need to be certified. As much as anyone now in our age bracket (late 20s/early 30s) hated high school or at least claim to have hated it, there's a lot of social development that happens there that a student doesn't find in college. What did I do in college? I sat in my room and studied, sure I had the flexibility to do what I wanted, but I was also old enough to vote and drive a car. There are reasons why we have age limits on things and schooling is one of them. I want my kids to see fights, I want my kids to go to prom, I want them to take sex ed and see pregnant students and deal with the same stresses that we all did. I don't want to shelter them or coddle them. The high school experience is more important IMO to the development teens and a necessary evil before attending college, no matter how smart they are.
I know a girl that quit high school when she was 16 to go to URI, she is a totally annoying pedantic little bitch who still thrives on high school-like drama and acts no different than she did when she was 16 because she never actually had the rest of her high school career to mature and grow with her peers. We don't need more people like that. We need mature adults who experienced what they needed to in order to develop into who they are today.
I know you're kids are smart Nigel, and of course it would be only natural for you to want what's best for them, that's not selfish at all, but at the same time, what will happen to the relationships your child has with their friends in school before they transfer to college? Will her friends shun them because she's smarter or will she blow them off because she thinks she's better? Will you allow her to date a guy in her college class that could have 5 or more years on her? That 16 year old I mentioned? Her first college boyfriend was 32. THIRTY TWO AND SHE WAS 16! She became defiant to her parents because she was in college, and wanted to do what she felt she was old enough to do...How would you feel about that?
High school sucks, but kids need it to grow.
Quote from: Calamity Nigel on March 09, 2010, 09:23:52 PM
If the school in your neighborhood is shit and people get stabbed on the playground, do you send your kid there anyway or do you transfer out? Because, if you send your kid there, they get more funding and it might help improve conditions for all the other kids... besides, if your kid is doing OK academically it will bring up the school's scores, and then they'll get even more funding.
You should do the right thing for the hive, even at the expense of your child.
You aren't serious right?
Quote from: Khara on March 09, 2010, 10:00:51 PM
Quote from: Calamity Nigel on March 09, 2010, 09:23:52 PM
If the school in your neighborhood is shit and people get stabbed on the playground, do you send your kid there anyway or do you transfer out? Because, if you send your kid there, they get more funding and it might help improve conditions for all the other kids... besides, if your kid is doing OK academically it will bring up the school's scores, and then they'll get even more funding.
You should do the right thing for the hive, even at the expense of your child.
You aren't serious right?
No, she's ripping on my counterpoint.
Quote from: Suu on March 09, 2010, 09:59:46 PM
Quote from: Calamity Nigel on March 09, 2010, 09:23:52 PM
If the school in your neighborhood is shit and people get stabbed on the playground, do you send your kid there anyway or do you transfer out? Because, if you send your kid there, they get more funding and it might help improve conditions for all the other kids... besides, if your kid is doing OK academically it will bring up the school's scores, and then they'll get even more funding.
You should do the right thing for the hive, even at the expense of your child.
I went to an urban high school. There were stabbings, rapes, etc. I did FINE. I also had the benefit of art and music education, which high schools are losing left and right because of that lack of funding, because of those parents that are putting their children in private institutions and the schools can't afford it anymore. But you're mixing apples and oranges here, you're talking about pulling your child out of public school because she's smart, not transferring her from a different school because it's dangerous.
If I have children, they're going all the way through public high school, I won't bother with the hometeaching bullshit and I sure as hell won't put them in a private school where teachers don't need to be certified. As much as anyone now in our age bracket (late 20s/early 30s) hated high school or at least claim to have hated it, there's a lot of social development that happens there that a student doesn't find in college. What did I do in college? I sat in my room and studied, sure I had the flexibility to do what I wanted, but I was also old enough to vote and drive a car. There are reasons why we have age limits on things and schooling is one of them. I want my kids to see fights, I want my kids to go to prom, I want them to take sex ed and see pregnant students and deal with the same stresses that we all did. I don't want to shelter them or coddle them. The high school experience is more important IMO to the development teens and a necessary evil before attending college, no matter how smart they are.
I know a girl that quit high school when she was 16 to go to URI, she is a totally annoying pedantic little bitch who still thrives on high school-like drama and acts no different than she did when she was 16 because she never actually had the rest of her high school career to mature and grow with her peers. We don't need more people like that. We need mature adults who experienced what they needed to in order to develop into who they are today.
I know you're kids are smart Nigel, and of course it would be only natural for you to want what's best for them, that's not selfish at all, but at the same time, what will happen to the relationships your child has with their friends in school before they transfer to college? Will her friends shun them because she's smarter or will she blow them off because she thinks she's better? Will you allow her to date a guy in her college class that could have 5 or more years on her? That 16 year old I mentioned? Her first college boyfriend was 32. THIRTY TWO AND SHE WAS 16! She became defiant to her parents because she was in college, and wanted to do what she felt she was old enough to do...How would you feel about that?
High school sucks, but kids need it to grow.
I think that SOME kids need high school to grow. I didn't. My kids may or may not, and it has less to do with them being smart and more to do with every kid being different. As a parent, I am going to tailor my children's educational experience as much as I can to optimize it for each child.
As for funding, like I said, the money I pay into the public school system via taxes doesn't get pulled out of the pool when my kid stops attending school. It's not harming the public school system if my kid graduates early; I'd like to see anyone try to present a compelling argument that it does. For every anecdotal failure like your friend, I can present an anecdotal success, like MY friend who is one of the most well-adjusted people I know. Or anecdotal public-school failures, like my first boyfriend who was stabbed to death trying to stop a fight on the playground.
But, that's pretty pointless, really.
There is no one-size-fits-all magical educational Right Answer for kids. What might be best for one of my kids may not be right for another of my kids. It's up to me to show them as many options as I can, and help guide them through them, and I'm going to do that job to the best of my abilities.
Quote from: Jenne on March 09, 2010, 09:43:26 PM
Quote from: Demon Sheep on March 09, 2010, 09:08:47 PM
Quote from: Calamity Nigel on March 09, 2010, 06:56:09 PM
Quote from: Demon Sheep on March 09, 2010, 05:28:37 PM
Quote from: Calamity Nigel on March 09, 2010, 05:23:52 PM
Quote from: Mistress Freeky on March 09, 2010, 12:22:20 AM
Quote from: Sigmatic on March 08, 2010, 09:56:56 PM
Quote from: Mistress Freeky on March 08, 2010, 09:35:54 PM
I'm gonna homeschool. :sad:
I totally agree. Ive got a pretty good idea how well public schooling works, and I think I (and maybe tutors here and there) can do better. Not only can I do better than most algebra teachers (partly due to their split attention), but homeschooling would be a good way to bond with my kid (in theory; no existing contingencies exist).
I don't know how well I'd be able to teach upper level math, but I can do reading and writing skills like nobody's business.
When your kid gets to that point, send him to community college.
*IF* your state allows for that. Mine doesn't. You have to 18 or have graduated to go.
WTF?
I've never heard of something that stupid. I know that in Oregon, Washington and California, you can take college courses and simultaneously earn college and high school credits. It's common for AP and homeschooled kids.
Dual enrollment is allowed, in either CC or a four-year university. But dropping out of regular high school to attend a community college is not. Here in California, anyway.
And you're probably right on the community funding being the reason it's not done.
NOT true for CA. CC's will take you, GED or not. ETA: but you may be right about the 18 years old thing, I haven't checked. I just know you don't HAVE to be 18 nor do you need a GED, as for the either/or, not sure.
I go to a community college and I'm pretty sure that isn't just our policy, nor do I think it's changed since I started here. If you're 18, you can go whether or not you were a high school drop out. If you're under 18, you either have to have graduated high school or be dual enrolled to come here.
Personal testimony tiem:
I'm glad I got my GED and high tailed it to community college. It saved me a lot of wasted time.
Yes, I do feel like I've missed some experiences unique to the high school environment. Yes, I do miss my friends. But I can't say that I've somehow been emotionally or developmentally stunted by it.
As a young adult, my goal is to become a functioning, autonomous, happy human being. I view going to CC as a shortcut on that path, and like all shortcuts, you do miss some scenic sights along the way. But I weighed it out, and can say that it's for me at least it's worth it.
But I'm not exactly the standard of normalcy, so I'm not sure how much that applies to other kids.
Quote from: Mistress Freeky on March 09, 2010, 12:22:20 AM
Quote from: Sigmatic on March 08, 2010, 09:56:56 PM
Quote from: Mistress Freeky on March 08, 2010, 09:35:54 PM
I'm gonna homeschool. :sad:
I totally agree. Ive got a pretty good idea how well public schooling works, and I think I (and maybe tutors here and there) can do better. Not only can I do better than most algebra teachers (partly due to their split attention), but homeschooling would be a good way to bond with my kid (in theory; no existing contingencies exist).
I don't know how well I'd be able to teach upper level math, but I can do reading and writing skills like nobody's business.
Find another parent who can do the math but not the R&W? I don't (thankfully) have a kid to home school but if I did I'd have pretty much the opposite problem of you.
My 2 cents.
As it is, I'm still in my state public education system. Only three months left in it, thank Eris.
Recently, we were informed that the budget for our school district for the next school year included cuts to some things. This included:
- Sports. All sports. There will be NO more sports in our school district.
- Arts. All arts. There will be NO more arts in our school district.
- P.E. and Music in Elementary Schools.
- The IB program. This one is what really pissed me off. Even if I'm not into any arts or sports besides theater, I can understand how important they are to people. But I have been in the IB program for all four of my high school years. As much as any IB student will complain about how mind-numbing and spirit crushing the IB program is, if you genuinely ask their opinion, they will all tell you that the IB program is, perhaps, the MOST important thing in their high school life, more than any sport, more than any art, more than any friend, more than any lover. And they're cutting it. Just straight out. They had already cut the GATE program, and now they're cutting the IB program.
Now, I understand we're having a global financial crisis. California has been hit worse than most of the U.S. I understand that, too. I also understand that, because of this, the school district isn't getting as much money as it used to. And I understand the school district can't magically make more money appear, except with taxes, which I wholly oppose anyways. So I understand some cuts have to be made.
Now, here's the part I DON'T understand. Why are we cutting sports, art, P.E., Music, and IB while the school district is building a new district office which costs TENS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO BUILD AND MAINTAIN?!
The total cost of all sports is approximately $750,000 a year. Art, probably $200,000. P.E. and music, maybe $350,000. And I'm just pulling everything besides sports out of my ass.
And IB? IB costs $15,000 a year. Let me repeat that figure for you, for emphasis. $15,000.
The district office costs $25 million dollars to build. It is estimated that it will cost $500,000 a year to maintain. (Okay, the latter figure I pulled out of my ass, too. The former one, I didn't though.)
I went to the old district office, just to see it. Yeah, it's kind of old and ratty. I can understand that a new district office would be nice. I know I wouldn't want to necessarily work in the old one.
But then I remembered the High Schools in our district. They are literally falling apart. 1/10th of our lights simply don't work. The ceilings have stains in them. I could ramble for hours on it, but I'm not going to.
The High Schools are, simply, in worse condition than the old district office. Now, I might be able to understand those who organize our school district need a decent place to work in. However, I don't understand why they need a TWENTY FIVE MILLION DOLLAR office to work in, with a coffee bar in the lunch room, thousand dollar plus furniture, etc. etc.
One of my teachers, who's experienced more in his life than most ten people have experienced, commented on the situation. "In this school district, education is not about the students. It never has been. Education has been and almost certainly always will be about bureaucracy and appealing to the corrupt officials in City Hall."
So, I decided to go to school board meeting where they would discuss the cuts to the programs. I submitted my "Request To Speak" form before Six P.M., which is supposed to guarantee me three minutes to speak at during the school board meeting. About a hundred other people also submitted Request To Speak forms, which is about ten times more than usual. Now, I had been stressing about this all day long. I wrote a speech, memorized it, actually BOUGHT nice dress clothes JUST for the meeting.
School board meeting starts up. The head of the school board realizes that, if we gave all hundred or so three minutes to speak, we'd never get anywhere. So he suggested that each group of people, such as the sports, the art, the IB, etc., each have a caucus, and elect one or two or three people to speak on behalf of all of them. Those who wished to speak generally would be allowed their individual voices to be heard. I was, as it is, a general speaker. IB was my heart and soul, yes, but I wanted to speak out against ALL of the cuts, and that was my intent.
So, they start up with the individual speakers while the groups are caucusing. I'm nervous, sweating bullets each time they call out a name, hoping and fearing at the same time that it'll be me. I noticed that most of the people going up didn't say too many really... Enticing things. It was all very neutrally said, very wishy-washy. I also noticed that a lot of the people who went up, the school board recognized, and was friendly with. I didn't think about any of this until the head of the school board said "Okay... And that's all the general speakers, let's move onto the caucus'."
Wait a minute. I hadn't been called up. What the fuck?
I got out of there before I felt the need to tackle a school board member.
There was the bullshit of everything, laid out right before me. I always knew politics was a corrupt, dirty business. You could be a sewage worker and be covered in less filth than a politician. But to have corruption to such an extent in a god damned fucking local SCHOOL BOARD?!
That was the night I lost all faith in our political system. I went there to try to make a difference, but they never even let me try.
For a while, I was incensed. I had recently watched Fight Club, and was considering a radical, violent approach, like blowing up their fancy district office they were building, or something like that. Eventually I calmed down and got out of that state of mind (Thank God), but I was still pretty pissed at our entire political system, and society in general for sitting there and taking it.
And then, a couple of weeks later, I finally got around to actually reading the Principia Discordia. I had heard about it in the past, yes, but I never really tried READING it.
And the rest is history. Now I'm where I am right now. Maybe the politicians won't let me speak out at meetings. But by God, let's see if they can keep me from PosterGASMing all over this city.
[/rant]
Stickergasm time.
Print some stickers that say 'program cuts 1 million*'
'new office for the people who made the cuts, 25 million'
*Get real numbers if you can.
Also include the names of the school board members. Put them *everywhere*.
So they finally did away with the GATE and IB programs?
Cripes, it feels like I've been gone from high school an eternity, what with hearing all about teachers being fired, courses cut, funding denied. I knew that a lot was in shambles from personal experiences (My second year of GATE was a joke), but it seems this year a lot has finally gone down the toilet.
They cut all that in 2004 in my district, year after I left (technically it was still available every other year, but that made meeting the prereqs for the classes impossible for most students).
I'm shocked to hear how cheap the IB program is though. If the advanced stuff is so incredibly dirt cheap in comparison to other programs why does it seem that its always the first to get cut?
Quote from: JackALope2323 on March 10, 2010, 03:57:41 AM
Now, here's the part I DON'T understand. Why are we cutting sports, art, P.E., Music, and IB while the school district is building a new district office which costs TENS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO BUILD AND MAINTAIN?!
Sports, art, PE, music, and IB don't reward political contributors.
Fat contracts to build offices do.
Thus endeth the lesson.
We're being told by our district that the rent they pay on two buildings is what causes them to want to buy another site. I call bullshit, but that's just what it is.
Cutting IB is retarded. I got into IB, but I didn't want to go to the school that had it, so I ended up just doing the honors/AP track, which still shaved a semester off of my college career. It wasn't a full year, but still...
IB is just the program for Nigel's kids, IMO. Again, I'm not telling her how to parent, it's just my side of the argument and my perspective because in the end it is really her choice. IB is what the kids who can't afford to hop out of high school early and go to college need. Same thing with AP, we need to keep programs like that so that the kids can remain driven and ready to go to college.
Art and music...Christ, don't get me started on that. I remember Herbert telling me that he didn't have art in high school after he saw my high school portfolio. I was flabbergasted. I remember when I was in elementary school, one song that we sang in the school concert was something like "Don't Take My Music From Me". This is something we, as a nation, have been fighting for over 20 years now and it's not getting any better. It was required for me in both middle school and high school to take fine art credits. And I went to FLORIDA schools. Blargh.
Providence public schools are horrendous. I went to a pretty urban school in St. Petersburg where all sorts of bad shit went down, but they really just don't give a fuck up here. Everything up here is controlled by the towns though, not the counties, so it all comes down to how much money the town or city wants to give to their school system, and since the state is so corrupt, politicians would rather pocket the money than do anything like restructure the school systems, oh, but they'll bitch about us out-of-state folks from down yonder with a much inferior education, lemme tell you.
I am unable to comment because every time I try I start foaming at the mouth and fall on the floor.
Suffice it to say public education in this country is terrible. I hate hate hate public schooling.
Quote from: Khara on March 10, 2010, 05:39:04 PM
I am unable to comment because every time I try I start foaming at the mouth and fall on the floor.
Suffice it to say public education in this country is terrible. I hate hate hate public schooling.
I love the concept of public schooling. What I hate, is politicians that underfund it and then claim that it never worked, and the hordes of dittoheads that go along with it. The ultimate goal, of course, is the creation - or rather the formalization - of a permanent educated aristocratic class, and an uneducated peonry.
We're protected only by the United Nations in that aspect. There is no US Constitutional right to an education. But there should be.
Quote from: Suu on March 10, 2010, 06:22:13 PM
We're protected only by the United Nations in that aspect. There is no US Constitutional right to an education. But there should be.
This is correct. Spending for education is constitutional (Article I, sec 8, clause 1), but not required. It should be. Thomas Jefferson thought so, too, but nobody ever listens to that old hippie anymore.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 10, 2010, 05:45:07 PM
Quote from: Khara on March 10, 2010, 05:39:04 PM
I am unable to comment because every time I try I start foaming at the mouth and fall on the floor.
Suffice it to say public education in this country is terrible. I hate hate hate public schooling.
I love the concept of public schooling. What I hate, is politicians that underfund it and then claim that it never worked, and the hordes of dittoheads that go along with it. The ultimate goal, of course, is the creation - or rather the formalization - of a permanent educated aristocratic class, and an uneducated peonry.
I love the concept, it's the way it's executed that sucks great big gigantic elephant balls!
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 10, 2010, 06:24:19 PM
Quote from: Suu on March 10, 2010, 06:22:13 PM
We're protected only by the United Nations in that aspect. There is no US Constitutional right to an education. But there should be.
This is correct. Spending for education is constitutional (Article I, sec 8, clause 1), but not required. It should be. Thomas Jefferson thought so, too, but nobody ever listens to that old hippie anymore.
And in not listening we are sending out into the world some of the least educated young adults in the world..... How fucked up is that?
Quote from: Khara on March 10, 2010, 06:35:38 PM
I love the concept, it's the way it's executed that sucks great big gigantic elephant balls!
That's not by accident or incompetence.
Quote from: Khara on March 10, 2010, 06:35:38 PM
And in not listening we are sending out into the world some of the least educated young adults in the world..... How fucked up is that?
Depends. If you're the HR manager at WalMart, it's pretty damn cool.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 10, 2010, 06:37:04 PM
Quote from: Khara on March 10, 2010, 06:35:38 PM
I love the concept, it's the way it's executed that sucks great big gigantic elephant balls!
That's not by accident or incompetence.
Quote from: Khara on March 10, 2010, 06:35:38 PM
And in not listening we are sending out into the world some of the least educated young adults in the world..... How fucked up is that?
Depends. If you're the HR manager at WalMart, it's pretty damn cool.
Do I need to lower my expectations even further? Because if they were a limbo bar lemme tell ya.....
Quote from: Khara on March 10, 2010, 09:08:55 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 10, 2010, 06:37:04 PM
Quote from: Khara on March 10, 2010, 06:35:38 PM
I love the concept, it's the way it's executed that sucks great big gigantic elephant balls!
That's not by accident or incompetence.
Quote from: Khara on March 10, 2010, 06:35:38 PM
And in not listening we are sending out into the world some of the least educated young adults in the world..... How fucked up is that?
Depends. If you're the HR manager at WalMart, it's pretty damn cool.
Do I need to lower my expectations even further? Because if they were a limbo bar lemme tell ya.....
See, this is exactly why I consistently target Libertarians and Teabaggers. If I can't change things, at least I can get revenge.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 10, 2010, 09:12:40 PM
Quote from: Khara on March 10, 2010, 09:08:55 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 10, 2010, 06:37:04 PM
Quote from: Khara on March 10, 2010, 06:35:38 PM
I love the concept, it's the way it's executed that sucks great big gigantic elephant balls!
That's not by accident or incompetence.
Quote from: Khara on March 10, 2010, 06:35:38 PM
And in not listening we are sending out into the world some of the least educated young adults in the world..... How fucked up is that?
Depends. If you're the HR manager at WalMart, it's pretty damn cool.
Do I need to lower my expectations even further? Because if they were a limbo bar lemme tell ya.....
See, this is exactly why I consistently target Libertarians and Teabaggers. If I can't change things, at least I can get revenge.
But I want to change things.... wait, no I don't, I mean yes I do, I mean..... WTF?
Seriously, I understand what you mean. I just think it's too late to fix things on a wide scale basis.
I also think St. Louis is too large of a battlefield for me to stand alone on. I need a smaller place where I can not only make a stand but fucking stir everything from the bottom up!!! Or else a following that mindlessly obeys me. That would work!
In the meantime, it's shit like this that has my kids in the Charter system. Well that plus they offer year round school which has improved the boys GPA's incredibly! And they are accredited and our public school system isn't. How sad is that?
I wouldn't put too much faith in accreditation. My high school lost it temporarily while I was there. Not because there were too few teachers or that half the guidance counselors couldn't have found their own asshole*. No, they lost accreditation because the school had been spending too much on education and not enough on administration. They had to hire extra vice principals to make the powers that be happy.
*I still want to punch the woman who couldn't understand I already had technology credits and didn't need a typing class. And a friend of mine ended up not graduating because of a mistake his made.
Quote from: JackALope2323 on March 10, 2010, 03:57:41 AM
So, they start up with the individual speakers while the groups are caucusing. I'm nervous, sweating bullets each time they call out a name, hoping and fearing at the same time that it'll be me. I noticed that most of the people going up didn't say too many really... Enticing things. It was all very neutrally said, very wishy-washy. I also noticed that a lot of the people who went up, the school board recognized, and was friendly with. I didn't think about any of this until the head of the school board said "Okay... And that's all the general speakers, let's move onto the caucus'."
Wait a minute. I hadn't been called up. What the fuck?
Why didn't you speak up?
"HEY!
Excuse me!!, I submitted a Request to Speak AND I'm a general speaker!"
Maybe I have the wrong impression of the situation, though.