http://www.journalsleep.org/ViewAbstract.aspx?pid=27726
Basically, this guy's brain does not produce very much serotonin, due to a genetic defect. Yet, he isn't depressed.
There is a more thorough writeup here http://neuroskeptic.blogspot.com/2010/03/life-without-serotonin.html
Anyone who needed scientific proof that happiness doesn't come from a chemical: :fuckoff:
... for science? :(
If its a genetic issue, it can't really be used for baseline human. Serotonin is just a messenger, and the brain is incredibly flexible when its still growing. There is absolutely no reason it can't use a different chemical to make those pathways if serotonin is missing in the early stages of development.
Though, as for the serotonin as the cause of depression thing, serotonin deficiency will *also* cause anger management issues, not just depression. (In a normal brain anyway).
Hm...
I look at it this way: when I am on PILLS I tend to be a good natured fun loving person with excitement about my life. When not on pills I tend to be depressed and hating of everything.
My pills happen to be an SSRI.
I think I'm gonna keep taking it.
When it comes to human biology there will always be exceptions.
Amen sister.
Quote from: BADGE OF HONOR on March 12, 2010, 12:33:36 AM
When it comes to human biology there will always be exceptions.
Yes.
Quote from: BADGE OF HONOR on March 12, 2010, 12:33:36 AM
When it comes to human biology there will always be exceptions.
True, for certain low values of "always".
Quote from: PeregrineBF on March 12, 2010, 03:50:20 AM
Quote from: BADGE OF HONOR on March 12, 2010, 12:33:36 AM
When it comes to human biology there will always be exceptions.
True, for certain low values of "always".
Allowable, for a given range of "low".
You know, while we're being absurdly pretentious.
Only for a given value of absurd, though, sir!
Sorry, I'm kind of wacked out on sleep deprivation right now...
Serotonin isn't a drug at all and, as I understand it, the actual levels of serotonin don't matter so much as the uptake/reuptake of the serotonin does.
QuoteSerotonin isn't a drug at all
Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't realise this was the "all your post titles must be factually accurate" forum. My bad. I won't use well known phrases from now on at all when they may conflict with existing scientific knowledge, no sir.
Damn right you're sorry.
TTM straightens his glasses and assertively adjusts his lab coat.
I don't fucking care how happy serotonin is. I just know that after 20 yrs of SSRI's I am still not a happy camper . .
Prozac - does Not do what it says on the tin [obscure British Advert reference]
(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a289/goblinhill/Prozac.jpg)
edit to remove orphan ellipsis
Just because it doesn't work for you doesn't mean it doesn't work for anyone.
Quote from: BADGE OF HONOR on March 13, 2010, 07:18:21 PM
Just because it doesn't work for you doesn't mean it doesn't work for anyone.
In a general sense you are absolutely right, but unless science can demonstrate a causal link between any given drug and the effect which it is claimed to have on the patient who takes it it doesn't actually mean much.
There is more good scientific evidence for the placebo effect than there is for any link between taking SSRI's and a lessening of "depression" - whatever that is . . .
MMIX - refuses to stop taking the tablets because if I feel this bad with them I don't want to face the world without them
Quote from: Mistress Freeky on March 12, 2010, 06:34:22 AM
Only for a given value of absurd, though, sir!
Sorry, I'm kind of wacked out on sleep deprivation right now...
Sixty three.
Quote from: MMIX on March 13, 2010, 07:25:28 PM
There is more good scientific evidence for the placebo effect than there is for any link between taking SSRI's and a lessening of "depression" - whatever that is . . .
Depends on the patients. With mild to moderate depression, yes, prozac and placebo are about the same, with severe depression prozac is muc h more effective than placebo.
Quote from: MMIX on March 13, 2010, 07:25:28 PM
Quote from: BADGE OF HONOR on March 13, 2010, 07:18:21 PM
Just because it doesn't work for you doesn't mean it doesn't work for anyone.
In a general sense you are absolutely right, but unless science can demonstrate a causal link between any given drug and the effect which it is claimed to have on the patient who takes it it doesn't actually mean much.
There is more good scientific evidence for the placebo effect than there is for any link between taking SSRI's and a lessening of "depression" - whatever that is . . .
MMIX - refuses to stop taking the tablets because if I feel this bad with them I don't want to face the world without them
An illustration: Just a week and a half ago I was feeling pretty unhappy with my life, hating everything. I tell this to my friend, and he says, "Have you been taking your medication religiously?" I then realize I'd stopped taking it for an entire month, just simply forgotten about it. Immediately I restarted.
The change is pretty profound, even within a week. I don't need any more evidence than that.
Quote from: Kai on March 14, 2010, 01:01:39 PM
Quote from: MMIX on March 13, 2010, 07:25:28 PM
Quote from: BADGE OF HONOR on March 13, 2010, 07:18:21 PM
Just because it doesn't work for you doesn't mean it doesn't work for anyone.
In a general sense you are absolutely right, but unless science can demonstrate a causal link between any given drug and the effect which it is claimed to have on the patient who takes it it doesn't actually mean much.
There is more good scientific evidence for the placebo effect than there is for any link between taking SSRI's and a lessening of "depression" - whatever that is . . .
MMIX - refuses to stop taking the tablets because if I feel this bad with them I don't want to face the world without them
An illustration: Just a week and a half ago I was feeling pretty unhappy with my life, hating everything. I tell this to my friend, and he says, "Have you been taking your medication religiously?" I then realize I'd stopped taking it for an entire month, just simply forgotten about it. Immediately I restarted.
The change is pretty profound, even within a week. I don't need any more evidence than that.
I do. Take one of the empty bottles and fill it with asprin, and put it along with the real stuff ;-)
Quote from: Enki v. 2.0 on March 14, 2010, 01:54:53 PM
Quote from: Kai on March 14, 2010, 01:01:39 PM
Quote from: MMIX on March 13, 2010, 07:25:28 PM
Quote from: BADGE OF HONOR on March 13, 2010, 07:18:21 PM
Just because it doesn't work for you doesn't mean it doesn't work for anyone.
In a general sense you are absolutely right, but unless science can demonstrate a causal link between any given drug and the effect which it is claimed to have on the patient who takes it it doesn't actually mean much.
There is more good scientific evidence for the placebo effect than there is for any link between taking SSRI's and a lessening of "depression" - whatever that is . . .
MMIX - refuses to stop taking the tablets because if I feel this bad with them I don't want to face the world without them
An illustration: Just a week and a half ago I was feeling pretty unhappy with my life, hating everything. I tell this to my friend, and he says, "Have you been taking your medication religiously?" I then realize I'd stopped taking it for an entire month, just simply forgotten about it. Immediately I restarted.
The change is pretty profound, even within a week. I don't need any more evidence than that.
I do. Take one of the empty bottles and fill it with asprin, and put it along with the real stuff ;-)
No you.
Seriously, test it on yourself if you're so interested. I'd rather, I don't know,
be doing well than play a test subject to satisfy your curiosity.
I'm on a tricyclic antidepressant and to be honest it helps with the sleep a little. Lack of sleep mek me all crazy and hear nasty things.
On the flipside when the stress is stressful enough to make me flip out anyway it does fuck all.
I need a new meds.
Amitriptilyne Hydrochloride for the lose.
/pixie had an awful meal with my family cos some bint cant control her kids or bring toys to a meal when they start acting up and screaming at a pitch only dogs should hear.
Quote from: Kai on March 14, 2010, 05:24:55 PM
Quote from: Enki v. 2.0 on March 14, 2010, 01:54:53 PM
I do. Take one of the empty bottles and fill it with asprin, and put it along with the real stuff ;-)
No you.
Seriously, test it on yourself if you're so interested. I'd rather, I don't know, be doing well than play a test subject to satisfy your curiosity.
ENKI, are you truly completely oblivious to when something is really dickish to say?
Yeah. Pretty much.
Cain would you mind if I linked this thread into my Neurology research dump?
No, it's not. It's a neurotransmitter. It's possible to produce them, customised, and freely, within the Laboratory of your own CNS. I've noticed over the years, that when I get strung out, for tobacco, or weed, or speed, and there is nothing to be had, the anxiety can build up to brainbursting intensity. Especially if you I'm waiting for someone to turn up with something. The funny thing is, if I've been waiting for a couple of days, all I can think about, is the horrible unfairness of it all, and how I shouldn't have to suffer like this, and how much better things would be if I had a little of what I wanted. Nothing unusual in that, I know, but when I actually get the call, and get up off my arse, and go and resolve the situation, and get all the way home with it, the euphoric effects quite often kick in, and begin to work, as soon
as the weed or whatever is in my pocket. So after two days of being ready to commit just about any atrocity in order to quell the withdrawals, I get home, with the object of my desires, and find the imperative to immediately indulge myself, has gone, the withdrawal symptoms have gone, the anxiety is gone, I feel good, and positive, and I haven't even taken any of whatever substance has been head splintering me for however long. This is because the particular mix of neurotransmitters, my CNS produces in response to the chemicals in the drug, are well known to my system, and it's already been
producing the necessary, and releasing it, in anticipation of what I have in my pocket. Which renders the actual drug, nothing more than a doggy treat to reward my cleverness with. So why do I still crave drugs? :? :fnord:The only thing I can think of, is "because they're so much fun" . Which doesn't really help, but then again, I'm not looking for any help. Just explaining an observation.
Quote from: BadBeast on March 27, 2010, 02:20:54 AM
No, it's not. It's a neurotransmitter. It's possible to produce them, customised, and freely, within the Laboratory of your own CNS. I've noticed over the years, that when I get strung out, for tobacco, or weed, or speed, and there is nothing to be had, the anxiety can build up to brainbursting intensity. Especially if you I'm waiting for someone to turn up with something. The funny thing is, if I've been waiting for a couple of days, all I can think about, is the horrible unfairness of it all, and how I shouldn't have to suffer like this, and how much better things would be if I had a little of what I wanted. Nothing unusual in that, I know, but when I actually get the call, and get up off my arse, and go and resolve the situation, and get all the way home with it, the euphoric effects quite often kick in, and begin to work, as soon
as the weed or whatever is in my pocket. So after two days of being ready to commit just about any atrocity in order to quell the withdrawals, I get home, with the object of my desires, and find the imperative to immediately indulge myself, has gone, the withdrawal symptoms have gone, the anxiety is gone, I feel good, and positive, and I haven't even taken any of whatever substance has been head splintering me for however long. This is because the particular mix of neurotransmitters, my CNS produces in response to the chemicals in the drug, are well known to my system, and it's already been
producing the necessary, and releasing it, in anticipation of what I have in my pocket. Which renders the actual drug, nothing more than a doggy treat to reward my cleverness with. So why do I still crave drugs? :? :fnord:The only thing I can think of, is "because they're so much fun" . Which doesn't really help, but then again, I'm not looking for any help. Just explaining an observation.
Best reason to use recreational drugs ITT.
2 other things:
- I like the way you think BB
- It sounds like you are quite addicted, consider quitting for a while. Just to prove to yourself that you can.
I thought (lack of) serotonin was what made you irritable/pissy.
At least that's what i was told was to blame for my mood the day after trying e for the first time.
Quote from: MMIX on March 13, 2010, 07:25:28 PM
Quote from: BADGE OF HONOR on March 13, 2010, 07:18:21 PM
Just because it doesn't work for you doesn't mean it doesn't work for anyone.
In a general sense you are absolutely right, but unless science can demonstrate a causal link between any given drug and the effect which it is claimed to have on the patient who takes it it doesn't actually mean much.
There is more good scientific evidence for the placebo effect than there is for any link between taking SSRI's and a lessening of "depression" - whatever that is . . .
MMIX - refuses to stop taking the tablets because if I feel this bad with them I don't want to face the world without them
You know, in some cases it makes more sense to talk of depression in terms of neurochemistry, while in others it makes more sense to look on the cognitive level. Not everybody who's depressed is depressed because their brain fails at chemicals.