Principia Discordia

Principia Discordia => Apple Talk => Topic started by: Doktor Howl on March 15, 2010, 05:11:08 PM

Title: So, Iptuous, there's this old flag outside of my office.
Post by: Doktor Howl on March 15, 2010, 05:11:08 PM
So, Iptuous, there's this old flag outside of my office.

It's about 3 years old, in the Arizona sun, so it's faded and kinda shredded on the end.  The American Legion would say it's a disgrace, of course, and that we should take it down and put up a clean, vibrant one right off the boat from China.

But not me, man.  I like it that way, it is a closer representative of America the way it is...Worn, uncared for, ragged around the edges.  The only way to make it more appropriate would be to wrap it around the naked, festering torso of a used up meth whore down on 12th.

That flag isn't America, Ippie, I am.  I am the last American, at least in this forgotten corner of the country.  I believe the same things that Ben Franklin and Patrick Henry believed, and I understand that the whole basis of liberty and the rule of law is that these things exist so that people can enjoy their lives more, in the miserably short period of time they have on this mudball.

I say I am the last American, sir, because everyone else has gotten lost.  The republicans no longer even pretend to care about liberty, the dems believe that liberty is something you mandate, and the libertarians believe that liberty is a counting house stub.  Obviously, they are all utterly wrong.  Taxation has about as much to do with liberty as does your heating bill, and you can't "protect freedom" by restricting it to the people with the Right Values™.  

And the man on the street?  Pffft.  The man on the street has bought into one of the above philosophies, or is too apathetic to care.  Just look around you.

So, yeah, that leaves me...the freak in the desert who has a head full of broken glass, a jeep full of guns, and some pretty disturbing ideas of what counts as fun on a Saturday night, usually involving perverts and violence.  THAT'S America, and don't let the Calvinists tell you any different.  They are bad people, Ippie, and they are most definitely NOT on your side.

But there's plenty of room in America, the real America, for anyone who can drop the programmed brainwashing and concentrate on working hard and playing harder.  We don't want to hear about Obama or Ron Paul, or any of those other sellouts.  We want to hear your story...What you've done, where you've been, Where you're going...not what you've been told.

No, if you want to live based on what you've been told, put your soul in a jar, and leave it under the stairs...There's also always room there, as you may well guess.  Just forget you're YOU, and let those others tell you that their way is superior to the other ways, and that the greatest sin, the greatest treason, is to fail to fit into one of the three operational paradigms that have been prepared for you.

Maybe you'll be happy that way.  Maybe the politics of the humans will suffice to keep you moving, keep you productive, while they eat you from the toes up.  I hope that's not what you chose (Or are stuck in, some people really CAN'T give up the beliefs that they have been imbued with.).

No, Iptuous, I hope you choose that ratty old flag out front, and all the good times it promises, to those who have remembered how to listen to it, instead of to demagogues and all the filth they carry with them.

Okay for now,
Dok

 
Title: Re: So, Iptuous, there's this old flag outside of my office.
Post by: Richter on March 15, 2010, 06:57:42 PM
You just described the American Dream to me, Dok. 

Not the "American Dreamtm", of jobs, 2.5 kids, white pickett fence house, 2 cars in garage....  the REAL dream, the one worth having.

The one that says if I can hold up my own end, and I want to have the freaky fun, then I can DAMN WELL have it.  The one where I can swap shitty jokes with co workers, and talk it out if we step a word too far.  The one where it's an assumption that I get treated like a self responsible adults if I act like one, not a priviledge. 

I dream where I can meet up with fellow freaks, talk mad science, practice the weird, and not take any shit for it as long as we're not endangering innocent bystanders.  Where we can play with things without being buried in red tape about liability, insurance, or nannying.  The Spider wove the apron strings they'd keep us on. 

I live my dream most of the time, and what's holding me back is under the guise of sense I wish was common.  (Not going to run a cutting torch on the 2nd floor of an old wood building.  That'd just be stupid. )  I'll run up against the idiocy soon enough, I'm sure.  I could be cagey and work around it, but that'd be an insult.

Remembering why we love that freedom is the important thing.  I don't have a sure - fire solution to sew up that flag, but I know what makes me WANT to.
Title: Re: So, Iptuous, there's this old flag outside of my office.
Post by: Doktor Howl on March 15, 2010, 07:07:15 PM
Flags aren't for sewing up, though, Richter.  They're for flapping in the wind, or riveting to the roof of your car.  After all, flags are just a way to say "OUT OF MY WAY, MOTHERFUCKER!" on a national level, right?  And what is our nation but The People?  And are WE not The People?

Indeed.  So let that raggedy remnant of Old Glory do what it was DESIGNED TO DO...tell EVERYONE, not just other nations, to "GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY WAY, I'M HAVING FUN HERE!".  It's only fair, after all, to give the rubes a warning before you blast through their little worlds like Wes from The Road Warrior.  It also saves on hosing them out from the undercarriage.

Unfortunately, we are surrounded by adherents of the No Fun Party, which consists of the three paradigms listed above.  They will tell you that you can't have an I-beam bumper with spikey bits, or a pindle-mounted paint pellet gun, or one or two of your mates hanging off the roof in leather clothes and mohawks.

But this is America, Richter, and it is my considered opinion that these fuckers shouldn't really have any say in the subject.  They are, after all, the enemy of Saturday Night, and their numbers are legion.  It is THEY who killed 4th Avenue.  It is THEY who took all the fun out of my kids' schools.  It is THEY who insist that we all sit down and shut up..."Why can't you get drunk and watch football like all the normal dads?".

Yeah, we know who they are, man, and we know we're outnumbered to the point where Saturday Night has to be held in secret, in the Temporary Autonomous Zone of your choosing.

So we better get on it, right?
Title: Re: So, Iptuous, there's this old flag outside of my office.
Post by: Jasper on March 15, 2010, 07:12:06 PM
I like old flags.  Shiny new things sure are pretty, but you know what?  I like it when good things get old and shitty.  It's not just poignant, it's better that way.  Old shit that's still better than new shit is a good reminder to have around.  I hate being surrounded by new things.  Forget new flags.  If I ever get a flag, it'll be red, jaundice, and blue, and recycled from king tut's diapers.

Growing up I liked to hear about the founding fathers, and if I didn't take an interest I probably wouldn't know JQ Adams from WH Harrison.  Why did they cut out civics in schools?  Why are we making kids say the pledge of allegiance in the third grade without teaching them about sacrifice, truth, justice, and tyranny?  

Why do we look at the state of this country and decide that lady liberty needs to go on thalidomide?

Title: Re: So, Iptuous, there's this old flag outside of my office.
Post by: Doktor Howl on March 15, 2010, 07:19:23 PM
Quote from: Sigmatic on March 15, 2010, 07:12:06 PM
Why did they cut out civics in schools?  Why are we making kids say the pledge of allegiance in the third grade without teaching them about sacrifice, truth, justice, and tyranny?  

Why do we look at the state of this country and decide that lady liberty needs to go on thalidomide?

All three of those questions have the same answer, Siggie. 

Civics teaches kids dangerous things, and the pledge reduces those dangerous things to a meaningless drone guaranteed to turn kids off of things like civics, and onto safer things like groupthink.  Kids running around with ideas derived from Locke or Jefferson are bound to get into trouble...Which is why Jefferson has been removed from the Texas school system (no shit).

And Lady Liberty is an old whore, anyway.  She's spread her legs for everyone from United Fruit to Standard Oil to Halliburton, and Thalidomide is the only way to make sure that any of her more dangerous genes get stomped flat, so that any offspring will continue to service the People With Important Eyebrows, in the proper slack-jawed and respectful manner.  She might once have been a Goddess, but now she's a wholly-owned subsidiary of Rupert Murdoch and his hirelings.

If I was France, I'd be a little pissed off, you know?  Not because of FREEDOM FRIES, hell, they expect that, but from the way we have treated the girl they entrusted to us.
Title: Re: So, Iptuous, there's this old flag outside of my office.
Post by: Eater of Clowns on March 15, 2010, 07:32:44 PM
Three years in the blistering sun.  Two hundred thirty three years, eight months, eleven days in the blistering foolishness of blind passion.  It was giving a fuck that made this country great and it's giving a fuck that'll burn it to the ground.  Not because doing so is a bad thing in itself but because there are those who learned early how to make us give a fuck about all the wrong things.  With all these causes jumping around so eager for our support is apathy any mystery any longer?

Some early patriots were lost as you said but it was the foolhardy with the charming smiles that blazed paths to nowhere and declared it an American Mecca.  And the rest followed, widening the paths and building on the foundations of nothing.  Lucky few find less trodden ways and lucky less walk them with success and the rest are luckless.

It's good you see that flag tattered and faded for so many others only see what the believe it to be.  They see it resilient and impregnable, whole and bright and they wave it as it's dragged from sea to oil slick sea across pesticide waves of grain and strip mined purple mountains.  When they do look and see it's all fucked up they blame each other without stepping forward to patch the poor thing back together.  That is if they could.  If vermin with opposable thumb had not scurried away with the scraps they found.

We may as well enjoy it, Doktor, such little other recourse do we have.
Title: Re: So, Iptuous, there's this old flag outside of my office.
Post by: Richter on March 15, 2010, 07:42:36 PM
Dok,  I'd like to see a culture where your concept of Saturday night can happen anytime.  (It doesn't need to be accepted or liked, just allowed.  Same token I don't like collection plates or casinos, but if it's what they're into.)  Parodying Teh Weird into their concept of weekends as the time when people SHOULD break out of the molds and see their secret gods is only lednign credibility to the idea.  Aren't we up for it any time, on any program?

It makes people flip; flags, when worn out are supposed to be burned.  (Old Joe told me that.  Few other things, but mostly he was just the kind of grumpy old dude you always listened to, for some reason.)  I can't tell you how many people look shocked when I tell them that.  You tell them you do it respectfully, then ask them if they want the national symbol they were ready to throw a fit over to sit in a landfill.  


Title: Re: So, Iptuous, there's this old flag outside of my office.
Post by: Doktor Howl on March 15, 2010, 07:44:58 PM
Quote from: EoC on March 15, 2010, 07:32:44 PM
We may as well enjoy it, Doktor, such little other recourse do we have.

We do have other options, EoC, if we have the stones to consider them.  Revenge, for example.  Retribution.  A balancing of the scales.  Our odds of any sort of success are slim to none, of course, but at least we can go down choking the sons of bitches that did this to us, instead of meekly going up the chute with the other little lambs, know what I mean?

And there ARE people, individual people, that have done this to us...And who continue to do this to us.  The greatest trick they ever pulled on us - myself included - is fooling us into believing in some sort of Machine™ that can't be stopped.

There is no Machine™.  Understand this.  There are only people, like Rick Warren and Rupert Murdoch and Rahm Emanuel.  Folks like "The Family", and the bastards that castrated Sesame Street for the good of our children.  The illusion of The Machine™ is caused by the viral nature of their ideas, and by the fact that fools will "compromise" when discussing rights they already had.  Evil men and women move the Overton Window, and we let them, because we want to look reasonable.

But I don't feel reasonable, EoC.  In fact, I feel a bit ornery.  I'd go so far as to say I want to kick someone in the jimmy, or do the next best thing.  What I can do might not be much, but at least I TRY to give the bastards the finger.

Lead by example, and you'll lead yourself.  But at least you're trying.  Papa Hemmingway would understand.
Title: Re: So, Iptuous, there's this old flag outside of my office.
Post by: Doktor Howl on March 15, 2010, 07:49:19 PM
Quote from: Richter on March 15, 2010, 07:42:36 PM
Dok,  I'd like to see a culture where your concept of Saturday night can happen anytime.  (It doesn't need to be accepted or liked, just allowed.  Same token I don't like collection plates or casinos, but if it's what they're into.)  Parodying Teh Weird into their concept of weekends as the time when people SHOULD break out of the molds and see their secret gods is only lednign credibility to the idea.  Aren't we up for it any time, on any program?

Yes, any program, any time.  But I am willing to spend my weekdays keeping body and soul together (read: keeping my kids insured), provided I can have my kind of fun on the weekend.

Quote from: Richter on March 15, 2010, 07:42:36 PM
It makes people flip; flags, when worn out are supposed to be burned.  (Old Joe told me that.  Few other things, but mostly he was just the kind of grumpy old dude you always listened to, for some reason.)  I can't tell you how many people look shocked when I tell them that.  You tell them you do it respectfully, then ask them if they want the national symbol they were ready to throw a fit over to sit in a landfill.  

Anyone who gets upset about "desecrating the flag" has pretty much missed the point.  In a supposedly free nation, the only way to desecrate the flag is to use it as a means of oppression...The Pledge, for example, or any number of anti-flag burning amendments proposed by your favorite authoritarian and mine, Pat Buchanon.

They don't get it, and they won't listen if you explain it.  Just beep the horn once as a courtesy, and drive through.  Anything that happens after that is on them.
Title: Re: So, Iptuous, there's this old flag outside of my office.
Post by: Jenne on March 15, 2010, 08:56:27 PM
I can't remember the last time I contemplated America as a Mecca for Dreamers.  My own dreams turned sour in my mouth as soon as the Horrible TroofTM about the good ol' USA and its pursuits from time immemorial became clear in the 90's.  I was younger then, and I thought I had the world by the tail.

Nowadays, my own kid won't say the pledge of allegiance because he's suspicious of what that means.

"I don't like a country that makes me swear allegiance to it.  What am I swearing TO?" he says.

And I can't argue with the kid.  In fact, instead of piercing me to the core like those words would have done MY mother if she'd heard them from MY 12-year-old mouth back in the day, they just made me chuckle derisively that this kid is in for a helluva ride by the time he's my age.  I mean, SHIT, if the children can't wave a flag and have the American DreamTM, who can?
Title: Re: So, Iptuous, there's this old flag outside of my office.
Post by: Doktor Howl on March 15, 2010, 09:02:17 PM
Quote from: Jenne on March 15, 2010, 08:56:27 PM
Nowadays, my own kid won't say the pledge of allegiance because he's suspicious of what that means.

"I don't like a country that makes me swear allegiance to it.  What am I swearing TO?" he says.

Tell him "Saturday Night".  He'll thank you when he's older.

Blend in.  Mouth their words, and get your kicks when they're satisfied that you're one of the good ones.  We don't owe these people anything, let alone a proper presentation of what we believe.  After all, the pledge doesn't actually mean anything, does it?  The constitution is a joke, the flag is a logo, and the republic is dead.  Now it's all about the Temporary Autonomous Zone, and getting in a few cheap yuks.
Title: Re: So, Iptuous, there's this old flag outside of my office.
Post by: Jenne on March 15, 2010, 09:13:03 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 15, 2010, 09:02:17 PM
Quote from: Jenne on March 15, 2010, 08:56:27 PM
Nowadays, my own kid won't say the pledge of allegiance because he's suspicious of what that means.

"I don't like a country that makes me swear allegiance to it.  What am I swearing TO?" he says.

Tell him "Saturday Night".  He'll thank you when he's older.

Blend in.  Mouth their words, and get your kicks when they're satisfied that you're one of the good ones.  We don't owe these people anything, let alone a proper presentation of what we believe.  After all, the pledge doesn't actually mean anything, does it?  The constitution is a joke, the flag is a logo, and the republic is dead.  Now it's all about the Temporary Autonomous Zone, and getting in a few cheap yuks.

He's proud of his defiance, and I can't say that in and of itself makes me a proud mother.  It's not like he takes it into the Danger Zone, either.  Just quietly stands there so he doesn't stand out, but if you ask him why, he will tell you to your face that the flag is a religious symbol, and he's not religious about his country.

Yeah, I'm raising my kids to be unreligious, but little did I know that this meant they'd end up as faithless as I am and at so young of an age.  It's a terrible thing to waste, one's fealty, and I think they are understanding that fealty to yourself should trump any other.  What the pledge means to my kid is nothing I consciously put there...unless making him listen to the news, read up on the world outside his Suburban HeavenTM, and research the start of the country--esp the parts where people had to DIE to make it work.

Maybe it's because his dad's a political dissident of sorts...maybe it's because he's picked up on his parents' cynicism and doesn't see a different road ahead.  I don't want to make a Mini Me out of my child, but I do like the cut of his jib nonethless...
Title: Re: So, Iptuous, there's this old flag outside of my office.
Post by: Jasper on March 15, 2010, 09:15:17 PM
I'm starting to warm up to the idea of Free Speech zones.  They're more honest.  Because in a world run by monkeys and their odious politics, that's all we have:  Outright tyranny and somewhat muted tyranny.  When was it anything else?

Title: Re: So, Iptuous, there's this old flag outside of my office.
Post by: Doktor Howl on March 15, 2010, 09:18:07 PM
Quote from: Sigmatic on March 15, 2010, 09:15:17 PM
I'm starting to warm up to the idea of Free Speech zones.  

Look at the silly man ranting inside the fenced off area!

Not good enough.

The only free speech zone I will tolerate goes from the Atlantic to the Pacific, and from 58.40 to the Rio Grande.  Alaska, also. 

And it's tyranny when you allow it.  When you're afraid of it.  When you warm up to it.

Title: Re: So, Iptuous, there's this old flag outside of my office.
Post by: Doktor Howl on March 15, 2010, 09:19:22 PM
Quote from: Jenne on March 15, 2010, 09:13:03 PM
He's proud of his defiance, and I can't say that in and of itself makes me a proud mother.  It's not like he takes it into the Danger Zone, either.  Just quietly stands there so he doesn't stand out, but if you ask him why, he will tell you to your face that the flag is a religious symbol, and he's not religious about his country.

That's a really good way to look at it, actually.

But he should be wary.  There's no shortage of uber patriots that will cheerfully show him the error of his ways, on the way home from school.
Title: Re: So, Iptuous, there's this old flag outside of my office.
Post by: Jasper on March 15, 2010, 09:24:17 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 15, 2010, 09:18:07 PM
Quote from: Sigmatic on March 15, 2010, 09:15:17 PM
I'm starting to warm up to the idea of Free Speech zones.  

Look at the silly man ranting inside the fenced off area!

Not good enough.

The only free speech zone I will tolerate goes from the Atlantic to the Pacific, and from 58.40 to the Rio Grande.  Alaska, also.  

And it's tyranny when you allow it.  When you're afraid of it.  When you warm up to it.



I am of course talking with tongue firmly in cheek when I say that though.  To me it is high comedy to invent a "Free Speech Zone", because of the way free speech has been treated over the history of the country.  Free speech is just one of those nice thingstm that we like to stand up for in principle, but fuck anyone who talks dangerous noise in the wrong places.  Like the guy who posted anti-religious pictures in public.  They don't think that's protected by free speech.  Why?  Because they're monkeys, and so is he.  And so are we.  There is no escaping the monkeys.  Their lanky fucking legs and their hand shaped feet are firmly wrapped around the throat of every thinking being on the planet, ready to squeeze should the bad noises come burbling out at the wrong moment.
Title: Re: So, Iptuous, there's this old flag outside of my office.
Post by: Jenne on March 15, 2010, 09:32:18 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 15, 2010, 09:19:22 PM
Quote from: Jenne on March 15, 2010, 09:13:03 PM
He's proud of his defiance, and I can't say that in and of itself makes me a proud mother.  It's not like he takes it into the Danger Zone, either.  Just quietly stands there so he doesn't stand out, but if you ask him why, he will tell you to your face that the flag is a religious symbol, and he's not religious about his country.

That's a really good way to look at it, actually.

But he should be wary.  There's no shortage of uber patriots that will cheerfully show him the error of his ways, on the way home from school.

Luckily, Suburbian HeavenTM means that if you will the Free Speech Zone, it might just come.  I am thinking it's his school environment that allows the perpetuation of his crazy, mixed up ideas about patriotism moreso than his home environment...but I could be wrong.  We have so many military, serving and retired, that I often put my own foot in it in front of them and their wives/children type units.

Whole thing can be rather meh at times.  But we have a large level of the paranoid here too.  My husband's taken to quoting the "Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't after me" to me, so  I think he gets it, though he himself has his OWN paranoid phrase, "The walls have mice." (extrapolation: the walls have mice, the mice have ears, and this is what they said in Soviet Afghanistan when they didn't want to talk about something for fear of being turned in/informed on)
Title: Re: So, Iptuous, there's this old flag outside of my office.
Post by: Doktor Howl on March 15, 2010, 09:33:52 PM
Quote from: Jenne on March 15, 2010, 09:32:18 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 15, 2010, 09:19:22 PM
Quote from: Jenne on March 15, 2010, 09:13:03 PM
He's proud of his defiance, and I can't say that in and of itself makes me a proud mother.  It's not like he takes it into the Danger Zone, either.  Just quietly stands there so he doesn't stand out, but if you ask him why, he will tell you to your face that the flag is a religious symbol, and he's not religious about his country.

That's a really good way to look at it, actually.

But he should be wary.  There's no shortage of uber patriots that will cheerfully show him the error of his ways, on the way home from school.

Luckily, Suburbian HeavenTM means that if you will the Free Speech Zone, it might just come.  I am thinking it's his school environment that allows the perpetuation of his crazy, mixed up ideas about patriotism moreso than his home environment...but I could be wrong.  We have so many military, serving and retired, that I often put my own foot in it in front of them and their wives/children type units.

Whole thing can be rather meh at times.  But we have a large level of the paranoid here too.  My husband's taken to quoting the "Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't after me" to me, so  I think he gets it, though he himself has his OWN paranoid phrase, "The walls have mice." (extrapolation: the walls have mice, the mice have ears, and this is what they said in Soviet Afghanistan when they didn't want to talk about something for fear of being turned in/informed on)

Paranoia is impossible, at least on that level...As paranoia is the delusion that they're against you.
Title: Re: So, Iptuous, there's this old flag outside of my office.
Post by: Doktor Howl on March 15, 2010, 09:34:32 PM
Quote from: Sigmatic on March 15, 2010, 09:24:17 PM
I am of course talking with tongue firmly in cheek when I say that though.  

That's a relief.  I thought they got to you, man.
Title: Re: So, Iptuous, there's this old flag outside of my office.
Post by: Jenne on March 15, 2010, 09:35:13 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 15, 2010, 09:33:52 PM

Paranoia is impossible, at least on that level...As paranoia is the delusion that they're against you.

Perhaps...but on the other hand, given enough provocation, the "against you" part is rather a certainty, and so I totally get what you mean by caution.
Title: Re: So, Iptuous, there's this old flag outside of my office.
Post by: Doktor Howl on March 15, 2010, 09:38:27 PM
Quote from: Jenne on March 15, 2010, 09:35:13 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 15, 2010, 09:33:52 PM

Paranoia is impossible, at least on that level...As paranoia is the delusion that they're against you.

Perhaps...but on the other hand, given enough provocation, the "against you" part is rather a certainty, and so I totally get what you mean by caution.

Sure.  Given his father's nationality, and his rejection of the group singalong to the almighty flag, it's not a question of IF but WHEN some fine young all-American lads decide to beat some patriotism into him.

Three solutions (worst to best):

1.  Gandhi it.

2.  Learn to run.

3.  Learn to fight.

4.  Find a couple of big friends.  My son enjoyed real success with this one, before he grew 8 inches in 2 years.
Title: Re: So, Iptuous, there's this old flag outside of my office.
Post by: Freeky on March 15, 2010, 09:59:07 PM
Sometimes, there is no hope for people, Dok. Sometimes a few words can change everything for others. And sometimes, a few words can put a few ideas into some bright and shiny mind, and reality sinks in, and those people can still be hopeless, but they can pass on what the reality is, and maybe THOSE people will be real Americans. It could be that we're either one generation away from total destruction of FreedomTM, or one generation away from a resurgence of what America is really all about. All it takes is words at the right time, and the right kind of people to hear those words, and everything could change.

Is that hoping for too much? I hope not, because then what reason is there to keep going?
Title: Re: So, Iptuous, there's this old flag outside of my office.
Post by: Doktor Howl on March 15, 2010, 10:04:46 PM
Quote from: Professor Freeky on March 15, 2010, 09:59:07 PM
Sometimes, there is no hope for people, Dok. Sometimes a few words can change everything for others. And sometimes, a few words can put a few ideas into some bright and shiny mind, and reality sinks in, and those people can still be hopeless, but they can pass on what the reality is, and maybe THOSE people will be real Americans. It could be that we're either one generation away from total destruction of FreedomTM, or one generation away from a resurgence of what America is really all about. All it takes is words at the right time, and the right kind of people to hear those words, and everything could change.

Is that hoping for too much? I hope not, because then what reason is there to keep going?

The lulz, Freeky, the lulz.

Get YOUR America on.  Let the braying masses worry about themselves.
Title: Re: So, Iptuous, there's this old flag outside of my office.
Post by: Freeky on March 15, 2010, 10:07:36 PM
I really do like living in this country, even though sometimes it scares the shit out of me that I do, and i've been disillusioned.

Thanks, by the way. I much prefer being disillusioned and scared shitless than Lala-landed. Who knows, maybe a few more months and I will understand what you mean by that.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 15, 2010, 10:04:46 PM

The lulz, Freeky, the lulz.

Get YOUR America on.  Let the braying masses worry about themselves.
Title: Re: So, Iptuous, there's this old flag outside of my office.
Post by: Doktor Howl on March 15, 2010, 10:13:09 PM
Quote from: Professor Freeky on March 15, 2010, 10:07:36 PM
I really do like living in this country, even though sometimes it scares the shit out of me that I do, and i've been disillusioned.

Thanks, by the way. I much prefer being disillusioned and scared shitless than Lala-landed. Who knows, maybe a few more months and I will understand what you mean by that

If America isn't scary, you're doing it wrong.
Title: Re: So, Iptuous, there's this old flag outside of my office.
Post by: Freeky on March 15, 2010, 10:16:46 PM
 :lulz:
Title: Re: So, Iptuous, there's this old flag outside of my office.
Post by: LMNO on March 16, 2010, 02:38:38 PM
Idealistic pretentious jake:

Build small enclosure made of chain link fence.

Print placards that read "FREE SPEECH ZONE".

Place the placards facing in rather than out.

Get pedantic.
Title: Re: So, Iptuous, there's this old flag outside of my office.
Post by: Iason Ouabache on March 16, 2010, 04:58:38 PM
Quote from: LMNO on March 16, 2010, 02:38:38 PM
Idealistic pretentious jake:

Build small enclosure made of chain link fence.

Print placards that read "FREE SPEECH ZONE".

Place the placards facing in rather than out.

Get pedantic.
I like it. Reminds me a lot of Wonko the Sane.
Title: Re: So, Iptuous, there's this old flag outside of my office.
Post by: Elder Iptuous on March 16, 2010, 05:26:15 PM
I don't know Dok,

I really don't anymore...  I used to when I was a kid and Dad was Right.  I did when I started thinking about it myself and figured he just wasn't Right enough.  I did when I decided that I'd be better off if I Left my Right at the door.  It seemed clear at one point that the Top was the Problem, until I looked at the all the knuckle dragging  Bottom and realized that I might not do anything any differently if I were in a position to choose.  I don't know any more.  I can't tell what this country is and who we are, let alone what it and we should be. 

And maybe that's what America is, in the end.  Maybe that's what it always has been.  A brightly colored shell with contents undefined; allowed to go through the natural progression of governance while maintaining a semblance of continuity.  Every time I'm 'informed' of what this place and these people are, the notion just gets swept away by some other example or story.  I don't know that there is a cohesive America, beyond that flag and some shape on a map.  Maybe if that flag is allowed to fall apart and the mythos around it, the borders would too.  What happens when the line towing masses of red white and blue folks can't even get together for a common parade in celebration of this absurdly disparate idea set that each thinks they have a real bead on? 

So now I have tentatively extended the attitude of my religious/philosophical beliefs to the political sphere, and simply observe this perpetually unfolding and titanic flower, and admire the beauty and horror.  Accepting what it is, and indulging myself in a sort of aloof unknowing...  an unstable separateness based on acknowledgment of my own ignorance.

Maybe someday I'll get some convictions back.  Maybe I'll know the answer once again.  Until then, I'd certainly be content to have some fun with folks like you that just want some fucking slack under that ratty banner.

I don't know,
Iptuous
Title: Re: So, Iptuous, there's this old flag outside of my office.
Post by: Doktor Howl on March 16, 2010, 05:38:28 PM
Well, that's understandable.  Nobody wants to walk away from something as powerfully evocative as Old Glory.  But that's just the point...you don't have to.  It's still there, and it remembers far better than you or I what America was supposed to be: an imperfect nation, yet composed of people who wanted to make it better, so that they themselves would be a better people.

That may no longer be the case...The whoring and imperialism and aristocratic bullshit is apparent to anyone who cares to look.  But why should we let the pimps and fixers and faux-patriots steal the flag?  That's Our flag, and I'm not ready to hand it over.

Needless to say, this concept applies to other nations as well.

Like the man said, Ippie, rock n roll never forgets.  We'll take that tattered rag and make it our own again, and stand on this ground, and tell the religious freaks and the dems and the GOP and the libertarians and everyone else to FUCK OFF, this is OUR PARTY, and the only requirements for admission are BIPEDALISM, BEING SERIOUS ABOUT HAVING A GOOD FUCKING TIME, and knowing about GODDAMN SATURDAY NIGHT!

Asshat 2010.  We won't be on the ballot, we'll be screaming and spraying spittle and laughing in their shocked and confused faces.

Or kill me.
Title: Re: So, Iptuous, there's this old flag outside of my office.
Post by: E.O.T. on March 17, 2010, 03:49:23 AM
THAT'S

          asshat 2510, baby

THIS IS,

          for here, one of my favourite anything posts. Everyone is boored by patriotism and too programmed to want OR be able to talk about it. The conviction, love & pride inherent to life itself have been sandblasted away by progress. Our soul is stomped at by the boots of Capitalism and when captured, sold off for media hype.

YES

          I look ragged, aged and rather worn. Those fuckers can push their fear. I'm armed with little pairs of eyes, trusting hearts and words like "I love you".

         

Title: Re: So, Iptuous, there's this old flag outside of my office.
Post by: Doktor Howl on March 17, 2010, 02:03:38 PM
Well, if it's 2510, then I'm even more angry.

And yeah, kids are good for stripping away the dross, down to what matters.

Title: Re: So, Iptuous, there's this old flag outside of my office.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on October 29, 2012, 07:30:28 PM
Bump for retooling.
Title: Re: So, Iptuous, there's this old flag outside of my office.
Post by: Elder Iptuous on October 29, 2012, 08:52:35 PM
on baited breath!  :)
I still haven't got any convictions, and i'm still doing fine with that.
(and SATURDAY NIGHT, while not as frequent as i would like, has gotten better these past two years.)