As it is, I've been breaking Rule #1 of the Wise Spag. Far too much, unfortunately. As it is, though, with my suspension, everybody knows of my... Beliefs. So I figure it won't hurt. Once I move to Rhode Island, nobody there will know about what I did here, anyways, and I can start afresh as a "Normal".
I've been trying to explain to my friends the philosophy behind Discordianism, exactly all of the beliefs espoused in the Black Iron Prison. To, for some reason, my surprise, none of them are willing to listen to me. I know this shouldn't surprise me, but fuck. It hurts when The Machine (TM) has worked so well that people won't even listen to alternative views, let alone consider them.
There's one analogy that either I came up with or was implanted in my head and I think is mine, that I really love. But, as it is, I've been unable to get it out to anybody, so it's been stewing here in my head, demanding it be expressed. So I toss it at you guys, who I know will be able to understand and appreciate it.
Society is like the abused child. When the parent comes home, drunk and angry, slaps the child, and tells them how much of a failure, or a slut, or a loser, or a thug they are, night after night, over and over again, this message being drilled into their heads, what happens? The child BELIEVES these things their sole authority figure in life (At the moment) is telling them. And so, therefore, they become a failure, or a slut, or a loser, or a thug, because they BELIEVE this is what they are, and that it is all they ever will be able to be, because their authority figure told them so.
The same applies to individuals in society. For example; Blacks in America are constantly shown this image of other blacks being only one thing: Thugs and street gangsters, people who drop out of high school and resort to a life of crime. They are shown this by the media, by the government. And what happens? Most blacks in America BECOME like what they are shown; They become like what they are told they are; They become like what they are told they can only be. They do not believe that they can be any more than that thug or gangster.
However, my larger point applies to not just an individual group of people; It applies to the entire population of America, and the entire population controlled by The Machine (TM). We are given this view that we, as people, are naturally violent. That, without control by some sort of Government, we would destroy ourselves. We are given the view that we are animals, needing farmers to corral use and leash us and lead us along. And therefore, we BECOME these animals that are violent and need to be controlled. We BECOME these creatures that, if not governed, would destroy one another. We do not think about ourselves; We do not think "Am I a creature that is violent?" We blindly accept the "facts" that are given to us by our authority figures, just like the abused child.
This should not be, but, as it is, it is.
I'd continue, but I'm in school right now, and the class is almost up, so I need to put this laptop away. I hope this was understandable, and not just a ramble session.
-Jack
Um
Not to knock your premise, but you've got to lose some of your hyperbole because it's very very wrong. Most black people don't become thugs or gang members; most grow up to a working or middle-class life. 83% of black adults in the US have a high school diploma or equivalent. More black adults have been to college than haven't, though the percentage with a bachelor degree or higher is still only about 25%.
Not sure where you got the idea that "most" American blacks become thugs, gang members, prostitutes, etc. but I am guessing it's because you live somewhere there are very few black people, so you are taking what the media shows to and extrapolating it to be reality.
Quote from: JackALope2323 on March 16, 2010, 09:46:19 PM
The same applies to individuals in society. For example; Blacks in America are constantly shown this image of other blacks being only one thing: Thugs and street gangsters, people who drop out of high school and resort to a life of crime. They are shown this by the media, by the government. And what happens? Most blacks in America BECOME like what they are shown; They become like what they are told they are; They become like what they are told they can only be. They do not believe that they can be any more than that thug or gangster.
You've fallen into the same trap you describe. You have accepted society's image of a subgroup without questioning it.
Blacks represent between 13-16% of America, depending on how you define "Black". "Most", meaning "more than half" would imply that there are 24,800,001 Black gangsters/thugs in America. If you have credible data suggesting that there are that many, I suggest you post it...Because I doubt that there are that many gangsters/thugs PERIOD, all races combined.
Pull the beam out of your own eye, as the man said.
From http://www.justice.gov/ndic/pubs32/32146/index.htm#National
QuoteApproximately 1 million gang members belonging to more than 20,000 gangs were criminally active within all 50 states and the District of Columbia as of September 2008
From http://www.nationalgangcenter.gov/Survey-Analysis/Demographics
(http://www.nationalgangcenter.gov/Content/Images/Graphics/Graphs/gangChart_ethnicitygangmembers.jpg)
That's about what, 350,000 black gang members? Out of 37.6 million (as of the 2008 census) American blacks total. That's less than one percent, isn't it?
Way to perpetuate erroneous racial stereotypes!
I always hate segregating it into whites / blacks / blue... I have Black friends, but I hate calling them Black friends, they're my friends.
Hey ... I was instilled that I'm a loser and nothing, but in the end I realised my step-dad was just a jerk, I got over it and made peace I know myself.
Being instilled something from a young age - It either pulls you towards it or pushs you away from it. I grew up in a verrrryy angry environment, and people wonder why I take things with humour ... cause I'm soo very over anger. But I have my days where my tolerance is low, I usually just try avoid as many people as possible till I get over it.
Oh personally - I wouldn't bother sprouting Discordianism; its best done through humour
QuoteOh personally - I wouldn't bother sprouting Discordianism; its best done through humour
THIS. And also, while I agree that people let themselves be programed, it's not to be a gangster or hooker or anything like that. Rather, people are more likely to be programmed as mindless drones. The Machine likes people to be cogs. While Gangsters and similar are not threats to the system (if anything they reinforce to everyone else that the Machine is necessary), they are not cogs themselves. And people have that all important choice as well. Most choose to become cogs, either consciously or because they are too lazy to be anything else. So it's the people's fault as much as it is the Machine. The people allow the Machine to function through conformity or apathy.
Oh, and as the others have already stated, you sort of fell into the trap you described.
I apologize for my reference to blacks like that. I was in the heat of the moment, and wasn't thinking straight. Looking back on it, it's probably not the best hyperbole to use, as Nigel said.
@NotPublished: Most people who are pushed away by being instilled that they are something are practically Discordians already; In name or otherwise.
@Joh'Nyx: I didn't use any with direct references to Eris or Discordia... Although I do have Pope cards I plant to put-pocket random people who seem like they might actually read the Principia through and consider it.
I don't preach to my friends. They came and asked me what I was trying to do with the posters, and I explained. They automatically rejected my explanations without any consideration. I really didn't even directly name "Eris" or "Discordia". I just espoused the ideas that come along with them.
Also, if I only became friends with fellow Discordians who aren't puppets of The Machine, I'd be a very, very lonely person. Minus the internet. But I'm done with only having friends on the internet, thank you very much.
Mind telling me where my metaphor seems inaccurate?
And yes, I do believe that deep down, behind the mask The Machine (TM) has forced most of us to wear, humans are decent people who won't go around killing everybody they don't like if there were no police to stop them from doing so. The only reason we believe people and ourselves to be like that is because The Machine (TM) tells us they are so, so that we believe that we need The Machine (TM) to protect us, when, in fact, The Machine (TM) is pointless.
(Sidenote: I am probably [Inaccurately] interchangeably using "The Machine (TM)" and "Authority" as the same things.)
I was under the impression that most Discordians were, in fact, Anarchists. Maybe I'm crazy.
@Semaj: I never said it wasn't people's fault for not believing what The Machine (TM) tells them and pushing away, as NotPublished did to his step-father. I'm just pointing out that most people, unfortunately, are like the step-child that NotPublished was not, the step-child who believes what his step-father tells him and becomes a loser or a slut or a thug or a whatever. In the same way, most people in society become what THEIR authority figure, be it the Media or the Government or whatever, tells them they will be, or what they can only be.
They are, is it is, weak. But, just as a weak person who was abused can be brought up out of their idea that they can only be a loser or a slut or a thug or a whatever by a psychologist or something similar, so can the people in society be brought up out of their idea that they are or can only be what The Machine (TM) tells them they are or can be. Society is mentally ill, gentlemen. And we are their psychologist.
Quote from: JackALope2323 on March 16, 2010, 09:46:19 PM
I've been trying to explain to my friends the philosophy behind Discordianism, exactly all of the beliefs espoused in the Black Iron Prison. To, for some reason, my surprise, none of them are willing to listen to me. I know this shouldn't surprise me, but fuck. It hurts when The Machine (TM) has worked so well that people won't even listen to alternative views, let alone consider them.
What is the philosophy behind Discordianism, and what are "exactly all the beliefs espoused" in the Black Iron Prison?
I suspect you don't really know as much as you think you know, and that your friends are picking up on that. Perhaps some introspection might be more useful than blaming mass brainwashing on all of your problems?
Basically, the idea that everyone should think for themselves, rather than simply blindly believing what anybody, even members of Authority tell them. And, considering the subjective nature of each individual's reality, one should always be willing to question ANYTHING, especially their own beliefs and views about the world.
I didn't go into the whole "Everything is Chaos; We simply apply illusions of Order and Disorder." jazz. If some had inquired further, I would've, but, as it is, not a single individual cared to delve past what was previously stated.
Jackalope, your responses leave me thinking that you are not willing to truly dissect the criticisms and use them to further your own learning, as you have only used them as an enemy against which to lodge a defense, rather than think.
short version:
Anarchists are self-deluded idiots who are in denial both about the nature of primates and about their own capabilities.
Quote from: JackALope2323 on March 17, 2010, 03:06:17 AM
@Joh'Nyx: I didn't use any with direct references to Eris or Discordia... Although I do have Pope cards I plant to put-pocket random people who seem like they might actually read the Principia through and consider it.
this is still a cool idea.
QuoteAnd yes, I do believe that deep down, behind the mask The Machine (TM) has forced most of us to wear, humans are decent people who won't go around killing everybody they don't like if there were no police to stop them from doing so.
Oh dear.
I believe, deep down, social pressure is real good at making people think that deep down humans are decent people.
I also believe that, deep down, we are all savage screaming monkeys.
And that human decency does not come naturally to us, from some deep down primal instinct, but is the result of conscious, deliberate and intelligent effort. Hence "Think for yourself, SCHMUCK!".
Quote(Sidenote: I am probably [Inaccurately] interchangeably using "The Machine (TM)" and "Authority" as the same things.)
We usually say The Machine to that emergent conglomerate mega organism of human and corporate etc power structures. While Authority usually just means what it says on the box.
QuoteI was under the impression that most Discordians were, in fact, Anarchists. Maybe I'm crazy.
It's easy to think that.
The fact is, we ate them.
QuoteI was under the impression that most Discordians were, in fact, Anarchists. Maybe I'm crazy.
I'm kind of an anarchist, but for me it's a kind of Utopian ideal. I would love for anarchism to work, but the species as a whole needs to grow up a lot first.
QuoteI don't preach to my friends. They came and asked me what I was trying to do with the posters, and I explained. They automatically rejected my explanations without any consideration. I really didn't even directly name "Eris" or "Discordia". I just espoused the ideas that come along with them.
Friends who don't listen to you aren't really friends. Even relatively superficial friendship should involve real communication of some type.
Quote
They are, is it is, weak. But, just as a weak person who was abused can be brought up out of their idea that they can only be a loser or a slut or a thug or a whatever by a psychologist or something similar, so can the people in society be brought up out of their idea that they are or can only be what The Machine (TM) tells them they are or can be. Society is mentally ill, gentlemen. And we are their psychologist.
As Johnny said, people must think they have a problem before it can be fixed. If you're looking to save humanity mate, don't bother. It doesn't work. Try to get the people who are actually willing to think out of the programming and the rest of the time, just have fun and laugh at the world.
Quote
And yes, I do believe that deep down, behind the mask The Machine (TM) has forced most of us to wear, humans are decent people who won't go around killing everybody they don't like if there were no police to stop them from doing so.
Commendable, but somewhat inaccurate. Outside of the rare few people born with innate moral sense, most people need to be programmed with a conscious. Think about all of the petty cruelty that children are capable of because they haven't finished their education.
Yeeeeeaaaahh... Ummmm....
Can your preachy ass NOT come to RI? Srsly. Don't.
Such a warm welcome I'm getting from everybody! =D
@ Dimo: I don't mean to preach. I understand, from my friends and apparently from you guys, that I tend to unknowingly enter "preach mode" a lot. I apologize if I came across as preachy.
@ Semaj: Then, apparently, I only have one real friend.
My idea was to get more people to be willing to think out of the programming... It can't be that hard, right? I mean, apparently, that little PosterGASM adventure I went on got at least ONE person to think differently than they had been. So I must be getting somewhere.
And besides, saving humanity is my idea of fun, anyways. ;D
And I'll think on that last statement.
@ Triple Zero: I never said human instinct is what makes us decent. I believe that, when given the chance to think for ourselves, rather than being told what to thought, humans are decent who would not believe that violence is the solution to all or most answers, and would go about their lives relatively peaceably, not ripping into one another.
@ Emerald City: I am indeed very self-deluded. That it something I will never, ever deny. Probably an idiot, too. Just ask everybody who knows me.
@ Nigel: If you believe so. I was simply engaging in, what I believed to be, friendly debate, in an attempt to refine my own ideas. I'm stubborn as shit (Which is, unfortunately, my biggest flaw, which, as much as I work on it, can't seem to go away when I tell it to.), and it takes a lot to dislodge me from an idea entirely, but I'd like to believe I'm more than willing to at least refine an idea.
@ Joh'Nyx: It's more than obvious that not every human is decent under all of what we are forced to be by The Machine (TM). There are Ted Bundys and Charles Mansons' out there, without a doubt. But I have no doubt that, in a government-free society, mob justice would quickly result in most of these detriments quickly being resolved.
And would you say that Society doesn't have a problem, Joh'Nyx? I understand Society probably doesn't believe it, but that's why I'm trying to be active like I am.
Quote from: JackALope2323 on March 17, 2010, 03:06:17 AM
I apologize for my reference to blacks like that. I was in the heat of the moment, and wasn't thinking straight. Looking back on it, it's probably not the best hyperbole to use, as Nigel said.
Okay. Then perhaps you'd better re-examine what you really believe, not what you want us to think you believe.
As for the rest of your post, you're digging in your heels and screeching like a monkey.
Stop being a monkey.
Quote from: JackALope2323 on March 17, 2010, 03:06:17 AM
I was under the impression that most Discordians were, in fact, Anarchists. Maybe I'm crazy.
Where in the hell did you get THAT idea?
20 yard penalty for bad usage of the term anarchist!
Quote from: Ratatosk on March 17, 2010, 01:53:13 PM
20 yard penalty for bad usage of the term anarchist!
10 yard penalty for any usage of the term anarchist!
Quote from: Emerald City Hustle on March 17, 2010, 08:58:32 AM
short version:
Anarchists are self-deluded idiots who are in denial both about the nature of primates and about their own capabilities.
Quote from: Calamity Nigel on March 17, 2010, 06:12:56 AM
Jackalope, your responses leave me thinking that you are not willing to truly dissect the criticisms and use them to further your own learning, as you have only used them as an enemy against which to lodge a defense, rather than think.
This.
Kid's got potential, but he's still trapped.
Quote from: Emerald City Hustle on March 17, 2010, 08:58:32 AM
short version:
Anarchists are self-deluded idiots who are in denial both about the nature of primates and about their own capabilities.
:mittens:
Quote from: JackALope2323 on March 17, 2010, 03:06:17 AM
I apologize for my reference to blacks like that. I was in the heat of the moment, and wasn't thinking straight. Looking back on it, it's probably not the best hyperbole to use, as Nigel said.
It's "not the best hyperbole to use" because it's COMPLETELY INCORRECT and reinforces only that you completely swallowed media misrepresentation hook, line and sinker without thinking. Your refusal to simply admit that wow you totally had your head up your ass is simple monkey pride, and yet another indicator that you don't fucking GET IT.
You seem to want to spread the word of Discordianism, but you don't understand it yourself. Please don't try to spread it until you understand it. I will give you a hint:
Think For Yourself, Schmuck.
When you can read your entire OP and really understand the areas in which you failed at that critical task, perhaps you will get it.
I think the opening post in this thread may be one of the most valuable things written so far this year, if only as a demonstration of how knowing you're in a trap isn't the same as escaping from that trap, and/or how putting on the trappings of a philosophy is by no means the same as understanding it.
As I said, Jackelope has potential, but he's too busy eating the menu to enjoy the meal (yeah, I hate that phrase, but in this case it applies), and digging his heels in rather than examining what he wrote and what he thinks in light of new (to him, in this case) information.
Jackelope: Put your ego off to one side for 30 minutes, and re-read this entire thread.
Quote from: Calamity Nigel on March 17, 2010, 02:33:52 PM
You seem to want to spread the word of Discordianism, but you don't understand it yourself. Please don't try to spread it until you understand it.
ehhh I don't know about that, what makes you think
anybody understands it? I've been hooking up with Eris since 98 and I still don't think I'm doing it right.
anyway Jack,
The Machine is driving, to some extent, but the thing is that
we're driving the machine. We build it through everything we do. When you see somebody acting in a way you don't like, and you put social pressure on them to change, you are acting as part of the machine. It's not inherently evil or anything, it's just the consequence of living in a gigantic fucking tribe.
I see the Machine as the series of expectations we create through our expectations. If society seems heartless and sterile and bureaucratic, it is because
people made it that way. There are no Illuminati puppetmasters; the government is fucked up and dysfunctional not because it was
specifically designed to screw us, but because it is made of greedy shortsighted monkeys. But yo,
everything is made of greedy shortsighted monkeys who cannot overcome their base instinct. I've always thought the key is to anticipate that and roll with it - that way, it's not a shock when something really fucked up happens, it's actually kind of funny.
Quote from: Cramulus on March 17, 2010, 04:16:23 PM
Quote from: Calamity Nigel on March 17, 2010, 02:33:52 PM
You seem to want to spread the word of Discordianism, but you don't understand it yourself. Please don't try to spread it until you understand it.
ehhh I don't know about that, what makes you think anybody understands it? I've been hooking up with Eris since 98 and I still don't think I'm doing it right.
There's some truth to that. I've been doing this shit for 29 years, and I'm still clueless.
Quote from: Cramulus on March 17, 2010, 04:16:23 PM
But yo, everything is made of greedy shortsighted monkeys who cannot overcome their base instinct. I've always thought the key is to anticipate that and roll with it - that way, it's not a shock when something really fucked up happens, it's actually kind of funny.
Also this. For every Gandhi that becomes enlightened and goes on to a spectacular career in pit-fighting, there's 10 million screeching monkeys that can't see past the nose on their face.
Quote from: JackALope2323 on March 17, 2010, 04:16:16 AM
Basically, the idea that everyone should think for themselves, rather than simply blindly believing what anybody, even members of Authority tell them. And, considering the subjective nature of each individual's reality, one should always be willing to question ANYTHING, especially their own beliefs and views about the world.
Are you starting from the assumption that your friends are not thinking for themselves? It's entirely possible that your friends are already thinking for themselves (at least as much as you are) and find being told what to think by some kid who found his "philosophy" while screwing around on his laptop during class obnoxious at best.
I'd also like to point out that not believeing anything people tell you is an absolute pain in the ass when you finally take calculus. The quadratic equation works - trust me.
LMNO
-don't be too hard on Jack. He's got drive and ambition.
@ LMNO: Not necessarily not believing anything people tell you, but taking it with a grain of salt, at least. Be willing to accept that they MIGHT be wrong, not necessarily that they ARE.
And thanks. I was afraid I was being Pineal, and it seems that this entire thread has only confirmed my fears.
@ Satzanfang: I'm starting from the assumption that most people don't think for themselves.
And no, I didn't find the Principia during school time. I found it at home, after ranting elsewheres about the inherently fucked political system in this country. Somebody pointed me to the PD, and said I might be interested.
And then I got all pineal on ya'll. =D
@ The rest of you: Thanks for the criticism. As it is, I'll be honest that I have no idea how to respond to most of it, so I'm not going to try and just end up making myself seem more like an idiot than I already have. At the moment, I'm going to go get some ice cream.
Oh, and thanks, to all of you. Seriously.
As far as the OP, where it seems hard to show people their BIP, think about it this way:
No one likes to admit they're deluding themselves, and everyone likes to kill the messenger.
Now consider what role you're trying to play.
It soon becomes apparent what problems you're going to face.
Quote from: JackALope2323 on March 17, 2010, 07:44:05 PM
@ The rest of you: Thanks for the criticism. As it is, I'll be honest that I have no idea how to respond to most of it, so I'm not going to try and just end up making myself seem more like an idiot than I already have. At the moment, I'm going to go get some ice cream.
Oh, and thanks, to all of you. Seriously.
Going to go think things over?
Oh, I have high hopes for this one.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 17, 2010, 07:57:08 PM
Quote from: JackALope2323 on March 17, 2010, 07:44:05 PM
@ The rest of you: Thanks for the criticism. As it is, I'll be honest that I have no idea how to respond to most of it, so I'm not going to try and just end up making myself seem more like an idiot than I already have. At the moment, I'm going to go get some ice cream.
Oh, and thanks, to all of you. Seriously.
Going to go think things over?
Oh, I have high hopes for this one.
Far better than a defensive rant about REALLY REAL DISCORDIANS ;-)
Quote from: Ratatosk on March 17, 2010, 08:03:05 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 17, 2010, 07:57:08 PM
Quote from: JackALope2323 on March 17, 2010, 07:44:05 PM
@ The rest of you: Thanks for the criticism. As it is, I'll be honest that I have no idea how to respond to most of it, so I'm not going to try and just end up making myself seem more like an idiot than I already have. At the moment, I'm going to go get some ice cream.
Oh, and thanks, to all of you. Seriously.
Going to go think things over?
Oh, I have high hopes for this one.
Far better than a defensive rant about REALLY REAL DISCORDIANS ;-)
wut
My general impression of Jack is positive. he's young and retarded, but in much the same way that I was when I was in high school. And I probably wouldn't have been as quick and willing as he seems to be to invoke the "cosmic schmuck" theory.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 17, 2010, 08:04:58 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on March 17, 2010, 08:03:05 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 17, 2010, 07:57:08 PM
Quote from: JackALope2323 on March 17, 2010, 07:44:05 PM
@ The rest of you: Thanks for the criticism. As it is, I'll be honest that I have no idea how to respond to most of it, so I'm not going to try and just end up making myself seem more like an idiot than I already have. At the moment, I'm going to go get some ice cream.
Oh, and thanks, to all of you. Seriously.
Going to go think things over?
Oh, I have high hopes for this one.
Far better than a defensive rant about REALLY REAL DISCORDIANS ;-)
wut
I was saying the choice to "go think" was a much better response that the "OMGZ YUO IS NOT TEH REALLY REAL DISCORDIANS FOR REALZ CAUSE YOU DIDN"T M-BRACE MY AWESOME DISCORDIAN IDEAS!!!!" like we usually get after a poor schmuck gets two pages of "Err, You Failed" responses ;-)
Quote from: Ratatosk on March 17, 2010, 08:23:11 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 17, 2010, 08:04:58 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on March 17, 2010, 08:03:05 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 17, 2010, 07:57:08 PM
Quote from: JackALope2323 on March 17, 2010, 07:44:05 PM
@ The rest of you: Thanks for the criticism. As it is, I'll be honest that I have no idea how to respond to most of it, so I'm not going to try and just end up making myself seem more like an idiot than I already have. At the moment, I'm going to go get some ice cream.
Oh, and thanks, to all of you. Seriously.
Going to go think things over?
Oh, I have high hopes for this one.
Far better than a defensive rant about REALLY REAL DISCORDIANS ;-)
wut
I was saying the choice to "go think" was a much better response that the "OMGZ YUO IS NOT TEH REALLY REAL DISCORDIANS FOR REALZ CAUSE YOU DIDN"T M-BRACE MY AWESOME DISCORDIAN IDEAS!!!!" like we usually get after a poor schmuck gets two pages of "Err, You Failed" responses ;-)
Nenslo's Lobster Theory applies here, I think.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 17, 2010, 08:26:46 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on March 17, 2010, 08:23:11 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 17, 2010, 08:04:58 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on March 17, 2010, 08:03:05 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 17, 2010, 07:57:08 PM
Quote from: JackALope2323 on March 17, 2010, 07:44:05 PM
@ The rest of you: Thanks for the criticism. As it is, I'll be honest that I have no idea how to respond to most of it, so I'm not going to try and just end up making myself seem more like an idiot than I already have. At the moment, I'm going to go get some ice cream.
Oh, and thanks, to all of you. Seriously.
Going to go think things over?
Oh, I have high hopes for this one.
Far better than a defensive rant about REALLY REAL DISCORDIANS ;-)
wut
I was saying the choice to "go think" was a much better response that the "OMGZ YUO IS NOT TEH REALLY REAL DISCORDIANS FOR REALZ CAUSE YOU DIDN"T M-BRACE MY AWESOME DISCORDIAN IDEAS!!!!" like we usually get after a poor schmuck gets two pages of "Err, You Failed" responses ;-)
Nenslo's Lobster Theory applies here, I think.
I don't know what that means...
Quote from: Ratatosk on March 17, 2010, 08:29:03 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 17, 2010, 08:26:46 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on March 17, 2010, 08:23:11 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 17, 2010, 08:04:58 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on March 17, 2010, 08:03:05 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 17, 2010, 07:57:08 PM
Quote from: JackALope2323 on March 17, 2010, 07:44:05 PM
@ The rest of you: Thanks for the criticism. As it is, I'll be honest that I have no idea how to respond to most of it, so I'm not going to try and just end up making myself seem more like an idiot than I already have. At the moment, I'm going to go get some ice cream.
Oh, and thanks, to all of you. Seriously.
Going to go think things over?
Oh, I have high hopes for this one.
Far better than a defensive rant about REALLY REAL DISCORDIANS ;-)
wut
I was saying the choice to "go think" was a much better response that the "OMGZ YUO IS NOT TEH REALLY REAL DISCORDIANS FOR REALZ CAUSE YOU DIDN"T M-BRACE MY AWESOME DISCORDIAN IDEAS!!!!" like we usually get after a poor schmuck gets two pages of "Err, You Failed" responses ;-)
Nenslo's Lobster Theory applies here, I think.
I don't know what that means...
"For every lobster that grows to be 100 feet long and becomes famous for attacking cities, 1000 others go in the pot."
- Orton Nenslo
cheers. Jack is my favorite newbie. He showed that he's an activitist - somebody who seems to live life in the present tense, active, doing things and having adventures. For him, Discordia doesn't seem to be a rhetorical exercise, it's an adventure! Now he has to walk the fine line between
-regarding himself as an authority who needs no external input
-regarding us as authorities who have it all figured out and fully internalizing our input
----both of those positions will lead to ruin!
Quote from: Cramulus on March 17, 2010, 09:10:10 PM
cheers. Jack is my favorite newbie. He showed that he's an activitist - somebody who seems to live life in the present tense, active, doing things and having adventures. For him, Discordia doesn't seem to be a rhetorical exercise, it's an adventure! Now he has to walk the fine line between
-regarding himself as an authority who needs no external input
-regarding us as authorities who have it all figured out and fully internalizing our input
----both of those positions will lead to ruin!
Yep. But it's proven that it can be done, and I think he can handle it.
QuoteThe rest of you: Thanks for the criticism. As it is, I'll be honest that I have no idea how to respond to most of it, so I'm not going to try and just end up making myself seem more like an idiot than I already have. At the moment, I'm going to go get some ice cream.
Oh, and thanks, to all of you. Seriously.
Huh. I like this guy. :)
Quote from: Cramulus on March 17, 2010, 09:10:10 PM
cheers. Jack is my favorite newbie. He showed that he's an activitist - somebody who seems to live life in the present tense, active, doing things and having adventures. For him, Discordia doesn't seem to be a rhetorical exercise, it's an adventure! Now he has to walk the fine line between
-regarding himself as an authority who needs no external input
-regarding us as authorities who have it all figured out and fully internalizing our input
----both of those positions will lead to ruin!
This.
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on March 17, 2010, 09:27:35 PM
Huh. I like this guy. :)
And this.
tl;dr this thread:
Jack: The Black Iron Prison, let me show you it.
PD: NO U!
Here's the good bit. Instead of replying with "NO U" and starting a "NO U" war.Jack: ORLY?
PD: YA RLY!
Jack: OP HERE. DISREGARD THAT, I NEED TO THINK THIS OVER.
PD: :jebus:
LESSONS FOR NOOBS ITT.
Quote from: Emerald City Hustle on March 17, 2010, 08:11:28 PM
My general impression of Jack is positive. he's young and retarded, but in much the same way that I was when I was in high school. And I probably wouldn't have been as quick and willing as he seems to be to invoke the "cosmic schmuck" theory.
Yes, this. At least he was able to go "Oh, OK, I missed the mark with his, I'll think about it and try again later".
@ Everybody: I'll admit, the moment I hit "Reply" the first thing I was thinking was "OMGZ YUO IS NOT TEH REALLY REAL DISCORDIANS FOR REALZ CAUSE YOU DIDN"T M-BRACE MY AWESOME DISCORDIAN IDEAS!!!!", which was what I usually do every time anybody disagrees with me, regardless of the arguments they've presented. As I said, I'm stubborn as a god damned mule, and will almost never admit I'm wrong.
But then a part of my mind spoke up and went "Wait, no, that's not right. That's not right at all."
And then I was Enlightened, etc. etc.
And, once again, thanks for all the advice and support. Rather than, you know, throwing me out on my ear at the first sign of insolence from me.
@ Calamity Nigel: I suppose I should offer you a real apology, rather than the half-assed, not-really apology I gave you earlier in the thread.
I was a fucking moron for using the blacks-into-thugs example in the OP. I indeed fell into the same trap I was describing with the analogy, automatically generalizing blacks as "thugs and gangstas". Wow, I totally had my head up my ass, I really did. And, honestly, I doubt that I do fucking get it. Maybe somewhat, but definitely not completely. I was being a screeching monkey who was flinging shit at someone trying to feed him. And for that, I apologize.
Thanks, Jackalope! :) The willingness/ability to admit when you were wrong is a really admirable trait IMO.
I keep expecting this to be part of some kind of elaborate troll.
Like, any minute now we're going to get imagebombed and told that we aren't paying enough attention to the fnords.
Welcome to PD, Jackalope.
We're all monkeys, too.
But we're a better class of monkey than those others.
I'm sure you'll fit right in.
PDCom: The best Simian Hubris money can buy!
just in case...
...IN B4 DURKO.
Quote from: Sigmatic on March 18, 2010, 06:16:23 AM
PDCom: The best Simian Hubris money can buy!
I really like that one.
And I like Jack, too. He reminds me of me, when I was more of the me I was then, rather then the me I am now.
Quote from: LMNO on March 18, 2010, 02:32:36 PM
He reminds me of me, when I was more of the me I was then, rather then the me I am now.
Was that when you were me as I were you when we were still together? :cry:
how are you not yourself?
ohai Majeh