Ok, I've been known (to myself, anyhow) to be a bit tough on myself if I feel as if though I am not learning enough, or learning fast enough. Sometimes I wonder if I've just hit a ceiling and have no more "room" left to learn. But, is it possible to reach a cap when it comes to learning? I mean, I want to do more, but sometimes I feel as if it is beyond my capabilities. I dunno... Maybe nevermind... Maybe I'm just having my equivalent of a "fat day" and I'm just feeling stupid lately...
There doesn't seem to be an upper limit on learning... but it is possible to try to take steps to quickly, or skip over some important parts, so it seems like you're "too stupid to get it".
Quote from: LMNO on April 14, 2010, 06:15:22 PM
There doesn't seem to be an upper limit on learning... but it is possible to try to take steps to quickly, or skip over some important parts, so it seems like you're "too stupid to get it".
The most important thing I've learned is "slow down" (took me the better part of a decade to get it...) and I sometimes forget... I wonder what I'm trying to skip over...
Well, as we get closer to our permanent dirt nap, the body does eventually start to break down and invariably that does involve the brain. But I'm thinking we still have the capacity to learn. To the extent it involves the rest of our dying body probably plays a role as well.
Quote from: dimo on April 14, 2010, 06:30:56 PM
Quote from: LMNO on April 14, 2010, 06:15:22 PM
There doesn't seem to be an upper limit on learning... but it is possible to try to take steps to quickly, or skip over some important parts, so it seems like you're "too stupid to get it".
The most important thing I've learned is "slow down" (took me the better part of a decade to get it...) and I sometimes forget... I wonder what I'm trying to skip over...
What are you trying to learn?
Quote from: LMNO on April 14, 2010, 06:38:54 PM
Quote from: dimo on April 14, 2010, 06:30:56 PM
Quote from: LMNO on April 14, 2010, 06:15:22 PM
There doesn't seem to be an upper limit on learning... but it is possible to try to take steps to quickly, or skip over some important parts, so it seems like you're "too stupid to get it".
The most important thing I've learned is "slow down" (took me the better part of a decade to get it...) and I sometimes forget... I wonder what I'm trying to skip over...
What are you trying to learn?
lol, everything... I'm an ass...
If you're trying to learn everything all at once, I think I can identify the problem...
Perhaps the first lesson is prioritization.
Quote from: LMNO on April 14, 2010, 06:41:04 PM
If you're trying to learn everything all at once, I think I can identify the problem...
Yeah. I had to laugh at myself as I answered that question. There's just so much to know, how do you narrow it down to what's important? I mean, everything from history to quantum physics... It all just seems so important to know these things... There's just not enough time. I've been spending a lot of time lately trying to explain the origins of Christian mythology with realistic explanations, but it seems it's an exercise in futility. I'm not even sure why I'm doing it...
So, the issue isn't that you can't learn things, it's that you can't figure out which thing to learn?
Methinks you've hit the roadbump in life known as: the more I know, the more I know I DON'T know, or even CAN'T know.
It's ok. One of those individual limitations that comes upon us when we want to embrace knowledge, from all walks and areas. One way to satisfy this: learn the FUCK out of one or two things...it helps assuage that particular, potentially immobilizing personal conundrum.
Quote from: LMNO on April 14, 2010, 06:48:44 PM
So, the issue isn't that you can't learn things, it's that you can't figure out which thing to learn?
Yes, I suppose this
is the real issue. I've been thinking lately of becoming a college level teacher. That way I can continue the learning process indefinitely.
Quote from: Jenne on April 14, 2010, 06:50:54 PM
Methinks you've hit the roadbump in life known as: the more I know, the more I know I DON'T know, or even CAN'T know.
It's ok. One of those individual limitations that comes upon us when we want to embrace knowledge, from all walks and areas. One way to satisfy this: learn the FUCK out of one or two things...it helps assuage that particular, potentially immobilizing personal conundrum.
Oh, I certainly have hit that bump, but from here it looks more like the friggin' Andes. I've been trying to narrow down my interests, but it's difficult because it seems that the the things I'm interested in are very much intertwined with other subjects. For instance, I feel that history, literature, philosophy/theology are all so closely connected that you can't pick just one.
Quote from: dimo on April 14, 2010, 06:56:21 PM
Oh, I certainly have hit that bump, but from here it looks more like the friggin' Andes. I've been trying to narrow down my interests, but it's difficult because it seems that the the things I'm interested in are very much intertwined with other subjects. For instance, I feel that history, literature, philosophy/theology are all so closely connected that you can't pick just one.
So take classes in each that call to you. Look at the books that are offered as curriculum and read the synopses.
That's how I did my poli sci international relations major for 3 years, and it paid off big time.
Quote from: dimo on April 14, 2010, 06:56:21 PM
For instance, I feel that history, literature, philosophy/theology are all so closely connected that you can't pick just one.
Solution: Read more Umberto Eco.
And then there's politics, sociology, psychology, astronomy, biology, anthropology, archeology, film study, everything related to computers... aargh... freakin' OVERLOAD! Methinks I need to take a chill pill and re-asses my goals...
Quote from: dimo on April 14, 2010, 07:05:00 PM
And then there's politics, sociology, psychology, astronomy, biology, anthropology, archeology, film study, everything related to computers... aargh... freakin' OVERLOAD! Methinks I need to take a chill pill and re-asses my goals...
Yup.
This may sound rude, but it's honest. How old are you again?
pick a topic, become an expert, pick a new topic
augment learning with discussion
explaining something you've learned to others is the best way to cement it into your brain
I technically switched majors like 3 times when I was in uni. So I feel dimo's pain a bit here. I got to college and just went all carpe diem on the classes, taking stuff from evolution and Zen Buddhism (sorry, Rog!), to Chinese Politics and oceanography (hey! I was in Santa Barbara ffs).
Time of my LIFE, People.
So when it came to narrowing my choices in majors, I really ended up going with my gut.
And haven't looked back since. (dropped poli sci IR, took up linguistics, and it stuck like hell)
Quote from: dimo on April 14, 2010, 05:59:39 PM
Ok, I've been known (to myself, anyhow) to be a bit tough on myself if I feel as if though I am not learning enough, or learning fast enough. Sometimes I wonder if I've just hit a ceiling and have no more "room" left to learn. But, is it possible to reach a cap when it comes to learning? I mean, I want to do more, but sometimes I feel as if it is beyond my capabilities. I dunno... Maybe nevermind... Maybe I'm just having my equivalent of a "fat day" and I'm just feeling stupid lately...
I've found that progress in skills seems to happen in bursts and then you kind of plateau for a while, but when you look back you find that you've learned more than you think you have even during the plateaus. Just keep at it, learn a little more every day and keep your current skills sharp.
Quote from: LMNO on April 14, 2010, 07:10:57 PM
This may sound rude, but it's honest. How old are you again?
28, but I feel 22. I'm three semesters into my college education, maintaining (roughly) a 3.8 GPA. I suppose I'm kind of a "late bloomer." Please to relate what this peice of information is relevant to?
Eh, I was just thinking that I felt the way you do when I was in my 20s, but as it turned out, the learning never ended.
Have kids. Having kids is very educational. If you like your education to come with sleep and sex deprivation.
Y'know, now that I think about it, maybe it's my approach that's off. I spend a lot of time trying to disprove things like the social conventions and religious beleifs of others. Maybe I should try to be less confrontational in my learning process, and focus less on changing others' world views and focus more on defining my own?
Dimo-
What the hell do I know, anyway...
Also:
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on April 14, 2010, 08:34:39 PM
Have kids. Having kids is very educational. If you like your education to come with sleep and sex deprivation.
Maybe some day, if I ever can figure out what the hell I'm doing...
I'm going to paraphrase something Cain was saying, I think in one of his Rules for Life threads. There's no shame in skipping the origin texts, say Freud, in favor of condensed "basics of" texts which analyze the primary sources with the years of knowledge accumulated since then. With a degree in Psych I don't think I've ever read something by Freud, but I recognize the important bits and can elaborate on how certain aspects of his thinking have been expanded upon since his time. That said, it's easy to get caught in trap where you read a book that attempts to tell you what the other books mean, as opposed to what the other books say. You should be interpreting the meaning yourself, whether it's on the primary source or other responses to it.
As for learning itself, yeah, it slows as you get older in some aspects. But other kinds of learning and skills increase and come closer to mastery. Aging is a weird process like that.
I currently have the pleasure of teaching a guy in his late 40's computer, radio, and general dispatching procedure when he's never done it. It sucks, I'm sure for him as much if not more than it does for me.
Quote from: dimo on April 14, 2010, 08:38:47 PM
Y'know, now that I think about it, maybe it's my approach that's off. I spend a lot of time trying to disprove things like the social conventions and religious beleifs of others. Maybe I should try to be less confrontational in my learning process, and focus less on changing others' world views and focus more on defining my own?
Dimo-
What the hell do I know, anyway...
If you're trying to disprove something, you're "using what you already know"; you're not really learning anything, unless you're both proved wrong, and are willing to accept the new information.
Learning, as far as I'm concerned, is a process of taking in new information, and only
later figuring out what to do with it.
Quote from: LMNO on April 14, 2010, 06:41:04 PM
If you're trying to learn everything all at once, I think I can identify the problem...
This is possibly a more valid point than you even intended it to be. Trying to learn or do too many things at once, or being confronted with too many things to learn or do, can put you in shut-down mode without even being aware that's what's happening. Prioritizing, itself, is a learned skill, as is learning to set aside things that are not immediately relevant.
So if you feel like you're having a hard time learning, choose one thing to learn, and that is prioritization. After you've learned that, you can use that skill to select the next one or two things you want to learn, and focus on those.
Quote from: LMNO on April 14, 2010, 08:50:14 PM
Quote from: dimo on April 14, 2010, 08:38:47 PM
Y'know, now that I think about it, maybe it's my approach that's off. I spend a lot of time trying to disprove things like the social conventions and religious beleifs of others. Maybe I should try to be less confrontational in my learning process, and focus less on changing others' world views and focus more on defining my own?
Dimo-
What the hell do I know, anyway...
If you're trying to disprove something, you're "using what you already know"; you're not really learning anything, unless you're both proved wrong, and are willing to accept the new information.
Learning, as far as I'm concerned, is a process of taking in new information, and only later figuring out what to do with it.
THISTHISTHISTHISTHIS.
If you're only looking at
your side of an argument (let's say, for example, homeopathy) then you are not learning, you are only reinforcing what you have already decided to believe. This is why people who believe in ridiculous things are able to go on believing them; it's not hard to support a conclusion you've already come to if you are only looking up materials that support that conclusion. To really learn about something, you have to research multiple perspectives/studies/sources, weigh them for objectivity, and then you may find you don't even have a conclusion, just a lot of data that may or may not indicate anything one way or another.
An awful lot of science, and education in general, involves being able to know a lot about something without coming to absolute conclusions about it.
Quote from: The Right Reverend Nigel on April 14, 2010, 09:00:31 PM
Quote from: LMNO on April 14, 2010, 08:50:14 PM
Quote from: dimo on April 14, 2010, 08:38:47 PM
Y'know, now that I think about it, maybe it's my approach that's off. I spend a lot of time trying to disprove things like the social conventions and religious beleifs of others. Maybe I should try to be less confrontational in my learning process, and focus less on changing others' world views and focus more on defining my own?
Dimo-
What the hell do I know, anyway...
If you're trying to disprove something, you're "using what you already know"; you're not really learning anything, unless you're both proved wrong, and are willing to accept the new information.
Learning, as far as I'm concerned, is a process of taking in new information, and only later figuring out what to do with it.
THISTHISTHISTHISTHIS.
If you're only looking at your side of an argument (let's say, for example, homeopathy) then you are not learning, you are only reinforcing what you have already decided to believe. This is why people who believe in ridiculous things are able to go on believing them; it's not hard to support a conclusion you've already come to if you are only looking up materials that support that conclusion. To really learn about something, you have to research multiple perspectives/studies/sources, weigh them for objectivity, and then you may find you don't even have a conclusion, just a lot of data that may or may not indicate anything one way or another.
An awful lot of science, and education in general, involves being able to know a lot about something without coming to absolute conclusions about it.
Was it Einstein that originally said "using it like a drunk uses a lamp post - for support not illumination"? I heard it from James Carville when defending political opinion shows to Jon Stewart. But what you're saying reminds me of that.
...all this being said above, I think it's important to KEEP ON learning. It actually is better to be doing "too much" with little focus, imho, than none at all and stagnating. I don't want to go all wa-wa-woo-woo bullshit pscychobabbly (too late?), but really, personal growth or whateveryoucallit and learning from your experiences, getting out there and getting to know ideas, people and places other than yourself, yours and where you are born...THAT'S LIVING.
A true initiation never ends.
Well apart from the learning-overload, have you found your method on Learning 'How to Learn'?
Usually when trying to learn something new (If its a text-book thing), I found that slowly reading a paragraph (then re-read it again, a few times ~ depends on my interest in it) and writing out a few keypoints on a piece of pad paper. Having an interest in the area helps almost 5000% ~ my key point on how to learn something is slow-repetition. Once its in there, its hard to lose. (Or just needs to be warmed up again)
When you stress yourself in trying to learn too much, then it becomes an overload. I guess remain calm and ignore everything when you are learning one thing, then move on. Its sorta systemetical!
Otherwise, echoing what others have said Keep your eyes open and experience life ( :lol:)
Dimo,
From what I understand, the brain has a nearly unlimited capacity for crosslinking neurons, which is how memory is developed. You shouldn't be the least bit worried about running out of room in your head.
If the problem is of too many interests that are all roughly the same level of curiosity, consider choosing one at random and just running with it. If they truly are of equal interest this is an ideal solution because you stop wasting time stuck in limbo.
Often times this process reveals what you are most interested in doing and it no longer is needed to break the stasis.
Another approach is to write out a massive list of your priorities, don't just let them flit about in your mind amongst the flim flam. Separate it out by putting it on paper and organize them according to importance as well as how they may be linked together in categories.
Consider asking yourself a very detailed and pointed question, setting a timer and just writing your balls off, even if you're just writing the same word over and over and especially if it doesn't seem to relate to the question at all. Keep going and resist the urge to correct grammar and spelling. Just pour it out until the timer goes off. You might not even need to review it for insight on your original question.
I don't recommend you write the question on the page though, as you'll be tempted stop and look at it and then look at what you wrote and then look at prolapsed anuses and then look at you forget you were even writing in the first place.
I think I know where you're coming from--trying to jam a shit ton of information in all at once on umpteen different topics made me wonder something similar (is there really any more room in there?). What I found worked was to sit down with a sheet of butcher paper and map out everything that I was thinking and learning about. Helped me make connections, organized my head, and removed that feeling, which let me keep going.
Quote from: Ne+@uNGr0+ on April 15, 2010, 12:00:17 AM
If the problem is of too many interests that are all roughly the same level of curiosity, consider choosing one at random and just running with it. If they truly are of equal interest this is an ideal solution because you stop wasting time stuck in limbo.
Often times this process reveals what you are most interested in doing and it no longer is needed to break the stasis.
Another approach is to write out a massive list of your priorities, don't just let them flit about in your mind amongst the flim flam. Separate it out by putting it on paper and organize them according to importance as well as how they may be linked together in categories.
Consider asking yourself a very detailed and pointed question, setting a timer and just writing your balls off, even if you're just writing the same word over and over and especially if it doesn't seem to relate to the question at all. Keep going and resist the urge to correct grammar and spelling. Just pour it out until the timer goes off. You might not even need to review it for insight on your original question.
I don't recommend you write the question on the page though, as you'll be tempted stop and look at it and then look at what you wrote and then look at prolapsed anuses and then look at you forget you were even writing in the first place.
Um.
Did this make sense to anyone? I must be stoned or something, because I have no idea what that means.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 15, 2010, 01:16:55 AM
Quote from: Ne+@uNGr0+ on April 15, 2010, 12:00:17 AM
If the problem is of too many interests that are all roughly the same level of curiosity, consider choosing one at random and just running with it. If they truly are of equal interest this is an ideal solution because you stop wasting time stuck in limbo.
Often times this process reveals what you are most interested in doing and it no longer is needed to break the stasis.
Another approach is to write out a massive list of your priorities, don't just let them flit about in your mind amongst the flim flam. Separate it out by putting it on paper and organize them according to importance as well as how they may be linked together in categories.
Consider asking yourself a very detailed and pointed question, setting a timer and just writing your balls off, even if you're just writing the same word over and over and especially if it doesn't seem to relate to the question at all. Keep going and resist the urge to correct grammar and spelling. Just pour it out until the timer goes off. You might not even need to review it for insight on your original question.
I don't recommend you write the question on the page though, as you'll be tempted stop and look at it and then look at what you wrote and then look at prolapsed anuses and then look at you forget you were even writing in the first place.
Um.
Did this make sense to anyone? I must be stoned or something, because I have no idea what that means.
:lulz:
If torn between several interets, just pick one and run with it, come back to the others later.
Make lists of priorities in order of importance.
Ask a pointed question of yourself and write as a timer goes. Do not write said question on page.
I've found the things I actually put into practice are the ones I learn the most effectively.
Currently i am learning to brew beer. i had done a lot of research, but until I actually started boiling stuff and mixing stuff, and had a carboy in my basement I wasn't learning that much. Soon I'll have some bottles of beer, and, assuming it turns out well, I can say I have learned to brew beer, althoguh, of course, there will still be more to learn. I find that if I am only researching I am learning much less effectively than if I am putting my research into practice as I research.
Thanks very much for all your insightful responses (and some of the less insightful ones). I found myself nodding in affirmation as I read most of them.
Nigel, you have some very good points that I was beginning to touch upon in my own thoughts, and it's nice to be able to check these ideas against other peoples thoughts on the subject.
EoC, the drunk and the lamp-post was great for sort of putting things into perspective.
Kai, that is encouraging (also, fuck you [jk])
NotPublished, have I told you that I think you're a really cool guy? 'Cuz I do.
Thanks again guys for, at the very least, reminding me why I love this place. This is clearly the BEST worst forum on the interbutts...
I can accept that :D
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 15, 2010, 01:16:55 AM
Quote from: Ne+@uNGr0+ on April 15, 2010, 12:00:17 AM
If the problem is of too many interests that are all roughly the same level of curiosity, consider choosing one at random and just running with it. If they truly are of equal interest this is an ideal solution because you stop wasting time stuck in limbo.
Often times this process reveals what you are most interested in doing and it no longer is needed to break the stasis.
Another approach is to write out a massive list of your priorities, don't just let them flit about in your mind amongst the flim flam. Separate it out by putting it on paper and organize them according to importance as well as how they may be linked together in categories.
Consider asking yourself a very detailed and pointed question, setting a timer and just writing your balls off, even if you're just writing the same word over and over and especially if it doesn't seem to relate to the question at all. Keep going and resist the urge to correct grammar and spelling. Just pour it out until the timer goes off. You might not even need to review it for insight on your original question.
I don't recommend you write the question on the page though, as you'll be tempted stop and look at it and then look at what you wrote and then look at prolapsed anuses and then look at you forget you were even writing in the first place.
Um.
Did this make sense to anyone? I must be stoned or something, because I have no idea what that means.
It's a way of sitting down and thinking really hard and figuring out difficult things and/or what to do next.
Pretty much kind of what Dimo asked about.
I use this a lot, especially prioritized lists, brainstorming, usually about smaller issues though. It's easy and it actually helps. Sometimes you want to sit and think and figure stuff out real bad, but your mind, not being like a muscle, doesn't always switch into gear on command. In fact, my particular mind is pretty fucking notorious for that. Going through a specific set of actions, like writing things down, is something physical you can always try or do and it often helps me set my mind in motion. I don't mean when I'm dead tired or something, but when I am awake, alert and somehow completely stuck.
I got distracted when he mentioned prolapsed anuses.
Dead on about priorities. You could just freely explore a subject, but that would have nothing to do with what you have already learned, and without structure you'll quickly be overwhelmed.
And Dimo, sounds like you're tailor-made for History & Philosophy of Science.